I feel like the big difference was error in strategy. Against Zhaitan, the pact sent special forces out first, gathered information, performed strategic raids on his weak points (mouth, eye) then brought in the full force to take him down. Against Mordremoth, the pact tried to just go in full-force first and got wiped. Then, after getting wiped, sent special missions and had to hold him back while a special mission actually finished the job.
Which one is weaker then? Hard to say. Both had big armies under their command. Mordremoth himself seemed stronger than zhaitan, but as I said the pact weakened zhaitan a lot before engaging directly. Modremoth though we found a greater direct weakness by invading his dreams, something we couldn’t do to Zhaitan.
How long did you use it for?
The most believable thing about the gigantic undead dragon creature that drops other undead and summons giant bone walls and bone fingers out of the ground is that it can fly.
Same reason I make a charr or asura. role play.
In my opinion it’s one of two things. Either it’s glint’s kid from GW1 that we have to protect. If he’s matured somewhat in to a young adult, he’s going to be a very powerful dragon, likely with psychic powers. The egg isn’t Glint’s last child, we know that at least one egg already had been a young dragon in Guild wars, and as far as I know, had survived.
Or hey, it could be the egg itself talking.
A deep and booming voice? Its quite the Mister E!
Oh am I imagining all the gold bubbles and melted gold?
how about cove maybe.
In my opinion a lot of the labels are made up. Some are from lore but I think a lot were just labels for decoration. I think they added “Not real” because they didn’t want to mislead people in to thinking this is concrete lore fact.
(edited by Rukh.9287)
This might mean nothing but it also might give insight. The gold orb in Orr is slowly turning everything around it to gold. I think it’s pretty likley that somehow that orb is linked to Kralkatorrik. The thing is though, it’s not actual gold. There are elementals around that have been transformed, and these aren’t gold elementals, they’re pyrite elementals. Fool’s gold. The orb transforms things to have the illusion of beauty and wealth, but its just a mask.
Maybe Kralkatorrik isn’t trying to make everything “itself” so much as its own corrupted ideal of beauty. i.e. a really twisted aspect of Lyssa.
One issue is we’re not completely set on the spheres of influence of the gods. Their nature varied somewhat during the creation of guild wars 1 so its hard to say if there were, to say, off-screen changes also. The Eye of the North expansion was made with Guild Wars 2 in mind and I think the lore given in Eye of the North is likely the most consistent with Guild wars 2.
The spheres of influence of the gods from the labels of their facets.
Melandru – Creation
Balthazar – Destruction
Dwayna – Existence
Grenth – Death
Lyssa – Illusions
Kormir – Spirit
From early in GW1 the god’s patronage:
Melandru – Earth
Balthazar – Fire
Dwayna – Air
Grenth – Water
Lyssa – Energy
Abaddon – Shadow I guess. Didn’t exist at the time.
However during the nightfall campaign, there were also mixed up a bit from that.
Melandru – Nature and Earth
Balthazar – War and Fire
Dwayna – Life and Air
Grenth – Death and Ice
Lyssa – Beauty and Illusion
Abaddon – Water and Secrets
Now, there’s an obvious problem with all this, there is no patron of “mind”. Also we know that the patronage can be transitory because when Abaddon is defeated, Lyssa becomes the patron of water. Kormir becomes the goddess of truth and knowledge and has nothing to do with water.
Perhaps there are many spheres. The six positions in the eternal alchemy may be constant but the spheres can pass through them like constellations in the zodiac.
Its also a possibility that the priory is totally wrong about the nature of the spheres or the dragons, but I feel like it was a purposeful lore drop, and I hope they wouldn’t give us a lore drop and then claim it to be lies, that would be rude.
Here’s my wild guess on the dragons.
Kralkatorrik – Energy, Illusions
Primordius – Fire, Destruction
Jormag – Ice, Spirit
Zhaitan – Shadows, Death
Mordremoth – Mind?, Creation
Spoopy – Water, Existence
(edited by Rukh.9287)
I doubt it. It would be pretty easy to explain how a god isn’t completely dead.
Aaaaand as I said.
WoW still is not the one to come up with a holidy to celebrate drinking. The Norn have a lot of drinking in their culture, what with beer brawl and whatever that festival out in the south shiverpeaks where you have to fend off the skritt.
Woo dragon ears and modrempops!
But it’s not a copy of WoW, it’s a copy of Octoberfest which WoW also did. Christmas is done in both yet GW2 isn’t copying WoW.
I’d love a beer themed holidy to celebrate one of humanity’s oldest nourishments.
Personally, I’d rather they have people always pay for the new chapter, regardless if they were on at the time or not, and cool it with spending all their resources on making new skins for the BLTC and figuring out how to get people in to the BLTC. If new chapters were their primary source of income, I imagine they’d put a whole lot of resources in to their primary source of income.
Yeah because quite clearly they don’t put nearly any resources on the living story…..
Compared to other mmos? not unless theyre hiding a whole other project beneath their skirts.
I agree with you. Spending time on the fundamental workings of the lore world is great stuff. I spent an hour drawing diagrams and graphs of how the dragons and gods and orbs fit together. Maybe that says more about me than anything though…
I think we shouldn’t take such things as set in stone anymore.
I think Glimmer is a great theory. If anybody would be great at hiding with illusions, a spawn of kralk would be it. Maybe he can only do it for short times and therefore most of the time has to communicate through mail. Would also explain some of the strange things he knows, if he’s actually pulling strings in the background.
I think Logan is a good idea too, if nothing for making his character more interesting. Would be harder to make plausible though.
Be thankful you find this hard, because you’re going to feel awesome when you beat it, and you’ll learn a lot you can use in other areas of the game too!
That happened in Arah, not the Crystal Desert.
Beyond that… it depends on what is and isn’t inherited. Glint’s children may have inherited her immunity from the Forgotten ritual. Or they may have inherited neither her immunity nor her connection to Kralkatorrik – so they’re just as susceptible to corruption as anything else, but as yet have no links with Kralkatorrik or any of the other Elder Dragons.
cough like the pale tree cough
I really like the idea of them trying to find another dragon to contain the released magic. Maybe they don’t need it to hatch though, maybe they just go grab the spheres of influence and inject it directly in to the egg for safe-keeping. That egg is going to have some trippy dreams….
Are we sure it’s Rytlock?
Personally, I’d rather they have people always pay for the new chapter, regardless if they were on at the time or not, and cool it with spending all their resources on making new skins for the BLTC and figuring out how to get people in to the BLTC. If new chapters were their primary source of income, I imagine they’d put a whole lot of resources in to their primary source of income.
There were 5 gods until people realized a 6th. There were 5 dragons until people realized a 6th. Wouldn’t it be interesting if there were always 5 races until people realized a 6th. It would be a retcon for the previous cycle, but that one was all janky anyways due to Glint’s interference. It would be easy to say some race existed then that even the races of the time hardly knew of, like the Largos are now.
We’ve never heard of any of the dragons dying. They wipe out civilization, consume the magic, and return to the darkness of space… er go back to slumber. Also we have no idea what order they go back to slumbering in. Also there’s really not “dragon magic” all magic is just magic, however dragons do emanate their own variety of magic according to their type.
If you want a wild out of the blue guess they made zhaitan shadow and death, and mordy be plant and mind so that when we kill the two, the spheres of shadow and mind will be free and Abaddon will be able to be remade.
It makes me wonder if there are some deep internal problems at the company when they decide that its vital to completely replace a pretty decently working core system with this hot mess. Did someone else seize power and as their little vanity trip decide they need to make the game by their own focus grouped opinions?
Hypothetically, if she DID die, who would be the most likely next-in-line to rule? If there’s no definite answer, is there any likely candidate that we’d know about?
While the PC doesn’t know who is next in line, the Order of Whispers thinks they know who is.
That’s not really how succession works though. You need to have declared lines that people believe. If you don’t, people will disagree and you end up with succession crises. Queenie is playing at a dangerous game and that alone is a valid reason to remove her from power.
The dragon in the dream is mordremoth’s minion, or some sort of shadow of it.
It’s not a retcon.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/lore/lore/Question-regarding-Shadow-of-the-Dragon/4322522
“The Shadow of the Dragon is definitely one of Mordremoth’s lieutenants. It is a plant creature and quite evil. When you see it in the Dream, however, you’re seeing some sort of magical reflection. You fight it there, but it’s not the actual creature in the Dream. This doesn’t mean it’s any less dangerous there.
The roots of this story were conceived while we were creating the main game, and the lore goes all the way back to Guild Wars 1. So yes, it’s safe to assume that we’ve planned it (mostly) all along.”
You can’t have a Countess Anise minipet, Countess Anise only has players as minipets.
The Countess can’t be Livia because then she couldn’t be Jennah who is actually Glint being both.
See, if you had just said Feature Patch = polish, not Features, you could have avoided so many snotty replies by smug people.
IMO, u’ve got 25 dungeon paths, and 8 story paths.
u’ve got fractals, a different kind of dungeon that scales in difficulty,
u’ve got world bosses like wurm and teq that u can spawn with a guild if u want to do it with ur own group
u’ve got wvw & pvpendgame is not an issue imo….
Endgame means difficult content with rewards to match. We have nothing of the sort in GW2.
Actually the problem is they DID give rewards, you get piles of loot for everything you do. In fact so many rewards they became essentially worthless.
The problem is not enough rewards, the problem is that they thought it was a good idea to make all items from a generic uninteresting pool. You may literally only see the one yellow you got one time during your play time, but who cares? Since they’re all uninteresting and randomly generated the fact your unique yellow is a norn spear of the cleric is no more interesting than if it were a charr carrion spear.
No the problem is not that there aren’t rewards, but that the rewards are boring.
Queen Jennah sealed parts of her soul in to mini dolls and handed them out to players all over the world. As long as even one Jennah survives, she’s immortal.
Also her nose is fake.
The collection update is the first actual feature that’s not just a quality of life update, and honestly it looks pretty fun. This sort of thing is a content multiplier in that it gets people back in to already used areas to do a new thing. When they add new content, they can simply make a few achivements for people to capture, and the new content goes that much further. Its a smart idea.
Meh, it’s kind of the thing heroes do. Look at commander Shepard in Mass Effect. That’s what he did too, bring races together to fight a common big bad.
Yes the humans encountered and fought the Charr and the Forgotten pretty early in to their entry in to Kryta.
Yeah its definitely a possibility.
There’s a few things that I don’t think are as strong evidence as you’re asserting though. First that Sylvari are vulnerable to corruption by Mordremoth. Humans are vulnerable to corruption by Kralkatorrik and Zhaitan, and probably Jormag too, but it doesn’t mean they’re minions of any of them. It could just be plain because they’re made of plants, and mordremoth is the plant dragon.
According to lore it seems so, though it may have been a later retcon to explain her existence in the game. It still makes for interesting story though.
This is something I’ve thought about a lot:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/lore/lore/Question-regarding-Shadow-of-the-Dragon/4322098
“astly, I’ll note that the Dream’s pool of knowledge began to form before sylvari were first awakened. If this weren’t true, then the Firstborn would have come into the world extremely innocent and vulnerable.” … “It’s interesting to ponder what the Firstborns must have been like when they first awakened, relative to what new sylvari are like now.”
Well, these are the Firstborn: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Firstborn
They’re either great scholars, heroes, or decide to corrupt the sylvari and bend the race to their own opinion of what they should be doing. : P
Charr do NOT have the strongest military. Again, they may have had the strongest military when they were the subjects of the Titans. But since then they have become fractured. They cast off the shaman caste that held a lot of their power. They’re still strong, but not the force that invaded Ascalon and Orr. The Charr are quite a bit weaker than they were at their height, and humans are much stronger than they were at their lowpoint.
What really makes the races strong though is their integration with each other.
I think if anyone were to go to war, it would be the Charr. We have proof from the past that they have been known to engage in battle. They would be most likely to go to war with the Humans.
Since the Charr would be fighting the Humans, if they needed help, they would most likely form an alliance with the Centaur because they also hate the Humans. However, it would be a tough alliance because the Centaur are hostile to nearly all races, even other Centaur tribes. There would need to be something to provoke their alliance. Maybe if the Centaur were in danger of extinction from the Humans.
If said alliance were to occur, the Charr and Centaur would most likely overtake the Humans.
The humans beat the char long ago. The Char were beating the humans because of the influence of Abaddon. The Charr cast that off however. They are too factionalized now to prove the threat they were before, yet humans are more united than ever. Even if the Charr did go back to the Flame Legion, they wouldn’t have the backing of the Titans.
If it really is intended to be used as a map portal or dungeon entrance people aren’t going to be happy with the difficulty.
They would likely clear it out when they had a thing that people needed to go to.
Just out of curiosity, how do you guys envision Mordremoth learning about the Summit ?
Do you see someone walking to it and telling it ? And then Mordremoth and the traitor sit down and enjoy a nice cup of tea ?
Seeing through the mind of someone is a bit more plausible, but why would he give a kitten about reading the minds of tiny creatures like us that can so easily be killed and corrupted ?
To find out where the other tiny creatures are hiding and what they’re doing of course.
1. Yeah, though they may not have necessarily been counted as the same hero that was present for Nightfall and Cantha and Prophecies, etc, but the various unnamed heroes were considered to have done heroic deeds in the past. You can go to the Hall of Monuments in Eye of the North in GW2 and the ghosts there talk about the heroes of old.
2. They were the leaders of Kryta yeah. You find out a lot in GW1 itself. I didn’t play too much GW1, but reading the wiki gives you a lot of info about the White Mantle.
3. You actually get to play pre-searing Ascalon if you start in that area, but once you progress the story far enough you can’t go back.
4. I’m not sure, heh.
5. Yes there were the legions led by the various Imperators, but they were basically all under the shamans of the Flame Legion.
6. Yes!-ish. I think they didn’t start with the dragons. GW lore sort of evolved around the end of GW1. They set up a lot of stuff they wanted to do with GW2 at the last GW1 expansion. So before that, there were the human gods, but not much about the dragons. A lot was retconned, but they did a fairly good job of trying to fit old lore in to the new lore.
During the Eye of the North expansion though, they did stuff like adding Kralkatorrik to the Charr homelands. He’s basically a mountain range, sleeping under the earth, and the Great destroyer was a minion of Primordius. I think when GW1 started out, the elder dragons weren’t a thing, but by GW2 lore, they have always been a thing.
7. sure.
8. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/The_Guild_Wars
9. Not in the dualistic middle-eastern/persian relgion sense, though I had heard before they went with the dragon idea, they were going to go with an angels and demons idea. There’s plenty of demons.
10. Actually there’s one dwarf in GW2 you can meet too. In GW1 you meet the dwarves, jotun, mursaat, some forgotten, also one seer(deceased)!
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Zinn%27s_laboratory
Where do you think an Asura gets the corpse of an extinct species?
11. Mostly stuff added in Eye of the North.
12. Not as far as I know, heh. Do you have some info that suggests it is?
It didn’t happen to be full of Pale Tree seeds, did it? XD
While I love the idea of all the racial homes getting historians and tours, how about a great huge “no” on the idea of Humans Must Be The Most Important And Know Everything.
The sad thing is, this is what humans were meant to be portrayed as – the most knowledgeable on the world’s history.
But what we get is, in fact, closer to “everything they had ever known, was wrong.” At least in presentation.
Humans have nothing going towards them that isn’t superceded or caused by another race, so what should they have if not history on the world? Everywhere the other races can go now, humans had ruled for centuries if not longer. Why shouldn’t they know the history of the place?
Sure, a sylvari could tell you the past 25 years of the Grove, or even the past 250 years, but why should they know of events predating that? Humanity should, however, as the Grove was built atop a destroyed human village. A human village we know nothing about beyond “it was Ronan’s home.” What was the village’s name? When was it founded? Why was it so far away from Kryta proper? Should sylvari know these things? Only if Ronan or another human mentioned it around the growing Pale Tree, but what’re the chances of a man wishing to forget his past talking about it? Pretty slim.
But a human historian with access to Krytan records would know the name. They’d know the founding date. They’d know its purpose (fishing? farming? hunting?) and why it was placed where it was. A sylvari wouldn’t know this unless they got it from human records.
But where are all these mentions of human records? Not just for this mysterious village but for any other village. What’s the history of Claypool? Of Beetletun and Shaemoor? Of Nebo Terrace? What’s the history of the Orrian villages (we only hear of one – Bayt Fallahin )? What’s the history behind Oldgate or the Decimus Stones? Who knows. Surely a human would, and not a charr or asura or sylvari!
The priory is race-agnostic. I don’t see why they wouldn’t share information they have about things like the history of human lands. It seems likely that any Sylvari who took it upon themselves to be a historian would go learn about the history of their location before the Pale Tree existed. Just because they weren’t there personally doesn’t mean they can’t learn about it.
Yeah its definitely a possibility. There’s plenty of unanswered questions and purposely left blank spots. Its clear that the Pale Tree knows a lot more than she reveals.
My unsupported hunch is that the latest cutscene vision we get is something that is actually inside the dream.
It could be something like the nightmare is not mordremoth, but corruption by a subordinate. When Mordremoth corrupts, it doesn’t seem to “change” the sylvari, they just get kind of mad(hatter, not angry) and violent.
Yeah I don’t quite understand the “Welp, it wasn’t completely done, scrap the whole thign!” idea. Seems like you would, you know, then finish it.