Guild Wars 2

Leaps heal you. Blasts heal in an area. Try it with a drake.

From what I’ve observed in using build calculators (I haven’t bothered to sit down and crunch it out myself), points spent in Skirmishing are always more beneficial than points spent in Marksmanship. My supposition is that the fact that Skirmishing gives you both precision and crit damage means that you are getting more bang for your buck by spending your points there.

Someone less lazy than me will hopefully confirm or refute that.

For what it’s worth, I run 0/30/5/25/10 with a mix of Soldier’s, Knight’s and Zerk’s and I have absolutely no problem keeping my power, precision, and crit damage (not to mention toughness and vit) at very respectable levels. Add in consumables, and it becomes downright deadly.

Some killer fights against the combined [MEND] and [FKB] zerg last night. Tons of fun, and PILES of badges. I think I was actually giggling through the whole thing based on the weird looks I was getting from my gf…

Oh, and tell BC Jed says “welcome back, and sorry for the repair bill.” I miss rolling with you man, but I’m beginning to appreciate rolling through you too.

Sebrent.3625:

I think this warrants some further testing. If anyone wants to test this and sees me online, please hit me up. I want to see if I can hit someone that is beyond the max range of my bow using this. That would be quite interesting for WvW purposes.

I’m also quite interested in how you hit that treb in sPvP as that could definitely translate to WvW. I may have my “siege hunter” capability back with my Ranger! The very idea of that excites me very much!

I couldn’t possibly give you hard distance figures, but I’ve messed around with this a lot by firing at ambients. There definitely seems to be a limit to the distance at which I can reliably hit (read: hit at all), but I can say that it’s definitely longer than max bow range, though not by a ton.

Do we have any good way of measuring distance? I know we can approximate with range indicators on skills and AoE borders, but is there something that just has stuff set up at preset distances?

jubskie.3152:

Sebrent.3625:

OGDeadHead, could you please make a video (or multiple) devoted to this little bit?

This is done by moving the camera around, and pressing 1. Since we don’t have a crosshair, it’s mostly guesswork until you hit the desired target.

I’ve been doing that with the burrows in AC. I manually aim my longbow with 1, then i press 2 as soon as I can hit it reliably. As for the treb, you just have to aim your camera higher (like he did in his screenie)

My experience with untargeted aiming is that if you are in normal bow range you just cover your target with your head (its nameplate will rest just on top of your head), and you will hit it – assuming it’s not moving of course. Outside of that range, you have to bring your aim up a bit depending on the distance so that you can take advantage of the arc.

Man…I sure would like it if LR removed immobilize as well. It would be truly amazing.

From a balance/build diversity perspective though, this would make LR a must have utility for every build which they are most likely trying to avoid.

Sorry if I’m pointing out the obvious here, but F2 mashing is often counterproductive since one press activates the F2 skill, while a second press cancels that action (assuming the pet hasn’t already started to use the ability).

That said, there are plenty of times that my pets will simply ignore that I’ve pressed F2 at all, and I certainly wish that were not the case.

Chopps.5047:

I switch weapons and utilities outside of combat all the time—sometimes for fun and sometimes for necessity. I don’t find that I need to switch though. I just do for fun. Except a siege situation then it’s longbow no doubt.

So you don’t find it necessary, except when you find it necessary? Just bustin’ your Chopps man.

I see everything (weapons, traits, utilities, pets) rangers have as containing a little bit of everything (DD, CD, CC, etc.) in different proportions. It’s a disadvantage in that you really have to find that special path through all of the confusion when making a build, but it’s an advantage in that you can layer a variety of effects to enhance or balance nearly any play style.

It’s weird compared to other professions because you are almost forced into being balanced and adaptable with the exception of the common/popular specs. It requires more personal skill to excel with a build that is 90% effective in all situations rather than 100% effective in a few. Probably why the extremes are so popular…

Every now and then I am suddenly completely unable to click on anything in game. Can’t click to target, can’t select an NPC, etc. Ground-targeted skills are also affected when it happens, so I would check to see if you can click on anything the next time it happens. If not, restart your client.

I’ve submitted this as a bug, but it probably wouldn’t hurt if others did too.

Spiders have shorter cd’s on their skills than canines. With the change to how pet skills reset with swapping, spiders make more sense than they did before.

TogoChubb.3984:

RummyTheMad.7290:

Arekai.5698:

RummyTheMad.7290:

Since that change to quickness affects all classes equally, we can safely call it a non-factor when comparing changes.

You have as much clue about this game as Anet it seems, and that would be none.

Please feel free to enlighten me and anybody else reading.

I agree that quickness has been reduced globally, however, I mainly used quickness to aid with the lack of LB shooting speed. It’s extremely easy to side step the projectile as it is still too slow at max distance to gain max damage. Quickness in this scenario helped a lot to land these long range attacks. I propose they allow the longbow to do max damage at any distance or give us a little more speed on the projectile again. Maybe even make the #4 LB skill instant to help with protection, which is something that Anet agrees is a problem on the LB. Not a lot is needed IMO, however, in the current state LB really struggles to be a main weapon for me in WvW and this disappoints me. I guess i’ll put it in my bag for siege purposes only in WvW.

I agree wholeheartedly with you re: the LB, although I don’t think it improved projectile speed, just rate of fire…no?

Regardless, I’m not a huge LB fan anyway. I use it for siege/counter-siege in WvW, and in situations where I’m certain that I can land the big hits reliably. I’m more of a skirmisher and prefer pretty much any other weapon to the LB, but I sure would like to see it get a little bit of love for those that do enjoy using it.

@Geshque – Ok… I’m not arguing with you, but ok.

@Ursan – It will always trigger with HB since HB has to be delivered in melee range. If someone is shooting at you, and you get in melee range before the 3s is up, you will kick that attacker.

Ursan.7846:

TogoChubb.3984:

They need to increase the block on the GS from 3s to 4s to help offset the lack of quickness. Before quick nerf you could block 100blades animation with 3s block, but now not so much. Maybe this was one point of slowing down quickness and dps in a crazy way this could actually land around the same amount of damage since it will take twice as long to cast burst abilities with quickness.

What do you guys think?

When the GW blocks a melee attack, it ends immediately and kicks the attacker away. I can’t say if it happens for 100B for sure or not, but I imagine it’s classified as melee?

It actually doesn’t factor in what type of attack it blocked. Rather it’s affected by your proximity to the target. So if you are in melee range when you block an attack, the deliverer of the attack will get blocked and kicked.

Arekai.5698:

RummyTheMad.7290:

Since that change to quickness affects all classes equally, we can safely call it a non-factor when comparing changes.

You have as much clue about this game as Anet it seems, and that would be none.

Please feel free to enlighten me and anybody else reading.

Grimvar.9185:

RummyTheMad.7290:

Grimvar.9185:

RummyTheMad.7290:

Grimvar.9185:

RummyTheMad.7290:

Grimvar.9185:

RummyTheMad.7290:

Grimvar.9185:

RummyTheMad.7290:

I’m going to use it for a while before I form any opinions about how it functions now. Alll I can say with certainty is that It’s different than it was before. I doubt that I will find it any better or worse in the grand scheme, but I reserve judgement.

It is a noticeable change. A lot of our damage comes in from our quickness skills with a 50% nerf we do 50% less damage from a skill we relied upon heavily to get our damage out. It is common sense. But clearly many people here lack that.

Well, of course it will be noticeable. I doubt anyone will dispute that point. However since the change to quickness is global, the net change to QZ looks more like a buff than a nerf to me. In other words, everybody’s burst will be less bursty than before…not just rangers, and rangers got some perks added in that we didn’t have before.

As I said, I’ll reserve judgement rather than making snap decisions based on non-experience.

Hahaha, you think adding a stung break is a buff? That is bringing it inline with the other classes skills whilst still taking a huge hit to dps while we already do less than optimal dps before this. Hell most people already accept ranger has the worst dps and utility in pve.

Our dps was already nerfed with the SB fix and now another dps nerf through quickness that nerfs all the damage we do no matter what weapon we choose.

You are that sad kid on that playground that people pick on and thinks they are their friend.

Actually no, I don’t think it’s a buff, I KNOW it is. It used to not be there, and now it is there. It’s an improvement to the previous state, therefore it is a buff. Pretty simple stuff really…

You go right ahead and get your complaining muscles all stretched out though. You’ve got a long night ahead of you!

50% speed nerf vs stun break. Nope, it is an overall nerf. You are factually wrong.

The quickness adjustment is global meaning it’s a non-factor when comparing the net effect it has. EVERYBODY’S quickness has been reduced. Rangers got a buff to their quickness skill to compensate. It’s really not that complicated.

No, rangers did not get a buff. Try to get it into your head. If you don’t realize how ranger damage builds rely heavily on quickness to deal damage whilst other classes do not rely on quickness as much then you clearly do not know this class.

QZ received a buff. Quickness received a nerf. The two things are not the same.

Since that change to quickness affects all classes equally, we can safely call it a non-factor when comparing changes. See where I’m coming from here? No need to get all snippy about it. We can discuss this like adults instead…

I manage to do damage on my ranger with or without QZ. QZ just added a burst factor when it was needed. Luckily it still does that, albeit at a reduced rate from before.

You are incredibly dense and it is pointless to try and argue with you.

Ah yes, the personal attack – haven of the secure.

Look. I’m not trying to convince you of anything. You go ahead and keep on getting irrationally upset over what may or may not amount to nothing at all. I’ll play with the skill for a while and see if I can make it work for me in it’s new state. If not, I may join you in your complaining.

As I said, I’ll reserve judgement rather than skipping straight to the complaining part. It’s just a methodology difference.

Grimvar.9185:

RummyTheMad.7290:

Grimvar.9185:

RummyTheMad.7290:

Grimvar.9185:

RummyTheMad.7290:

Grimvar.9185:

RummyTheMad.7290:

I’m going to use it for a while before I form any opinions about how it functions now. Alll I can say with certainty is that It’s different than it was before. I doubt that I will find it any better or worse in the grand scheme, but I reserve judgement.

It is a noticeable change. A lot of our damage comes in from our quickness skills with a 50% nerf we do 50% less damage from a skill we relied upon heavily to get our damage out. It is common sense. But clearly many people here lack that.

Well, of course it will be noticeable. I doubt anyone will dispute that point. However since the change to quickness is global, the net change to QZ looks more like a buff than a nerf to me. In other words, everybody’s burst will be less bursty than before…not just rangers, and rangers got some perks added in that we didn’t have before.

As I said, I’ll reserve judgement rather than making snap decisions based on non-experience.

Hahaha, you think adding a stung break is a buff? That is bringing it inline with the other classes skills whilst still taking a huge hit to dps while we already do less than optimal dps before this. Hell most people already accept ranger has the worst dps and utility in pve.

Our dps was already nerfed with the SB fix and now another dps nerf through quickness that nerfs all the damage we do no matter what weapon we choose.

You are that sad kid on that playground that people pick on and thinks they are their friend.

Actually no, I don’t think it’s a buff, I KNOW it is. It used to not be there, and now it is there. It’s an improvement to the previous state, therefore it is a buff. Pretty simple stuff really…

You go right ahead and get your complaining muscles all stretched out though. You’ve got a long night ahead of you!

50% speed nerf vs stun break. Nope, it is an overall nerf. You are factually wrong.

The quickness adjustment is global meaning it’s a non-factor when comparing the net effect it has. EVERYBODY’S quickness has been reduced. Rangers got a buff to their quickness skill to compensate. It’s really not that complicated.

No, rangers did not get a buff. Try to get it into your head. If you don’t realize how ranger damage builds rely heavily on quickness to deal damage whilst other classes do not rely on quickness as much then you clearly do not know this class.

QZ received a buff. Quickness received a nerf. The two things are not the same.

Since that change to quickness affects all classes equally, we can safely call it a non-factor when comparing changes. See where I’m coming from here? No need to get all snippy about it. We can discuss this like adults instead…

I manage to do damage on my ranger with or without QZ. QZ just added a burst factor when it was needed. Luckily it still does that, albeit at a reduced rate from before.

Grimvar.9185:

RummyTheMad.7290:

Grimvar.9185:

RummyTheMad.7290:

Grimvar.9185:

RummyTheMad.7290:

I’m going to use it for a while before I form any opinions about how it functions now. Alll I can say with certainty is that It’s different than it was before. I doubt that I will find it any better or worse in the grand scheme, but I reserve judgement.

It is a noticeable change. A lot of our damage comes in from our quickness skills with a 50% nerf we do 50% less damage from a skill we relied upon heavily to get our damage out. It is common sense. But clearly many people here lack that.

Well, of course it will be noticeable. I doubt anyone will dispute that point. However since the change to quickness is global, the net change to QZ looks more like a buff than a nerf to me. In other words, everybody’s burst will be less bursty than before…not just rangers, and rangers got some perks added in that we didn’t have before.

As I said, I’ll reserve judgement rather than making snap decisions based on non-experience.

Hahaha, you think adding a stung break is a buff? That is bringing it inline with the other classes skills whilst still taking a huge hit to dps while we already do less than optimal dps before this. Hell most people already accept ranger has the worst dps and utility in pve.

Our dps was already nerfed with the SB fix and now another dps nerf through quickness that nerfs all the damage we do no matter what weapon we choose.

You are that sad kid on that playground that people pick on and thinks they are their friend.

Actually no, I don’t think it’s a buff, I KNOW it is. It used to not be there, and now it is there. It’s an improvement to the previous state, therefore it is a buff. Pretty simple stuff really…

You go right ahead and get your complaining muscles all stretched out though. You’ve got a long night ahead of you!

50% speed nerf vs stun break. Nope, it is an overall nerf. You are factually wrong.

The quickness adjustment is global meaning it’s a non-factor when comparing the net effect it has. EVERYBODY’S quickness has been reduced. Rangers got a buff to their quickness skill to compensate. It’s really not that complicated.

Grimvar.9185:

RummyTheMad.7290:

Grimvar.9185:

RummyTheMad.7290:

I’m going to use it for a while before I form any opinions about how it functions now. Alll I can say with certainty is that It’s different than it was before. I doubt that I will find it any better or worse in the grand scheme, but I reserve judgement.

It is a noticeable change. A lot of our damage comes in from our quickness skills with a 50% nerf we do 50% less damage from a skill we relied upon heavily to get our damage out. It is common sense. But clearly many people here lack that.

Well, of course it will be noticeable. I doubt anyone will dispute that point. However since the change to quickness is global, the net change to QZ looks more like a buff than a nerf to me. In other words, everybody’s burst will be less bursty than before…not just rangers, and rangers got some perks added in that we didn’t have before.

As I said, I’ll reserve judgement rather than making snap decisions based on non-experience.

Hahaha, you think adding a stung break is a buff? That is bringing it inline with the other classes skills whilst still taking a huge hit to dps while we already do less than optimal dps before this. Hell most people already accept ranger has the worst dps and utility in pve.

Our dps was already nerfed with the SB fix and now another dps nerf through quickness that nerfs all the damage we do no matter what weapon we choose.

You are that sad kid on that playground that people pick on and thinks they are their friend.

Actually no, I don’t think it’s a buff, I KNOW it is. It used to not be there, and now it is there. It’s an improvement to the previous state, therefore it is a buff. Pretty simple stuff really…

You go right ahead and get your complaining muscles all stretched out though. You’ve got a long night ahead of you!

Grimvar.9185:

RummyTheMad.7290:

I’m going to use it for a while before I form any opinions about how it functions now. Alll I can say with certainty is that It’s different than it was before. I doubt that I will find it any better or worse in the grand scheme, but I reserve judgement.

It is a noticeable change. A lot of our damage comes in from our quickness skills with a 50% nerf we do 50% less damage from a skill we relied upon heavily to get our damage out. It is common sense. But clearly many people here lack that.

Well, of course it will be noticeable. I doubt anyone will dispute that point. However since the change to quickness is global, the net change to QZ looks more like a buff than a nerf to me. In other words, everybody’s burst will be less bursty than before…not just rangers, and rangers got some perks added in that we didn’t have before.

As I said, I’ll reserve judgement rather than making snap decisions based on non-experience.

I’m going to use it for a while before I form any opinions about how it functions now. All I can say with certainty is that It’s different than it was before. I doubt that I will find it any better or worse in the grand scheme, but I reserve judgement.

Lyndis.2584:

RummyTheMad.7290:

Lyndis.2584:

RummyTheMad.7290:

Thanks Chokolata. I just wanted to drop in and let you now that you aren’t alone. I’m very happy with my ranger, and the global changes to quickness (accompanied by the buff to QZ) hasn’t changed a thing.

I’m also an avid GS user, so the buffs there are really nice as well. I’ll miss the pet skill cd on swap, but it’s just something to get used to.

Happy because your GS was pretty much the only thing buffed this patch?

How many weapons can the ranger use again?

Which ones are in sore need of help?

Is greatsword really what Anet should even be looking at?

Try answering those questions and re-evaluate the patch.

I use all of the weapons from time to time, and they are all extremely effective at what they do well. So, to answer your question: all of them are usable, and none are in sore need of help. I just happen to like the GS quite a bit, and it received a buff so I commented on it.

I don’t share your negative attitude, and I’m not trying to convince you to quit whining. Whine all you want. I’m old enough and observant enough that I realize that things change. It’s how you cope with these changes that help to define who you are. You want to waste your time and energy complaining, then please feel free to do so. I certainly will not stand in your way. In the meantime, I’ll do what I’ve been doing the whole time – playing and getting better.

Best of luck to you.

Classy use of the ’I’m older and wiser’ argument chaser, I hope all your arguments with your SO if you ever get one aren’t so terribly made.

Lol! Do you just want to argue or something? I’m not even disagreeing with you… I wasn’t even making a comparative statement, so no argument was even presented from my side.

I think the patch offers some interesting changes. You don’t. You’ve chosen to express your opinion, and I’ve chosen to express mine. See how simple that is? No need to get all worked up about it.

Lyndis.2584:

RummyTheMad.7290:

Thanks Chokolata. I just wanted to drop in and let you now that you aren’t alone. I’m very happy with my ranger, and the global changes to quickness (accompanied by the buff to QZ) hasn’t changed a thing.

I’m also an avid GS user, so the buffs there are really nice as well. I’ll miss the pet skill cd on swap, but it’s just something to get used to.

Happy because your GS was pretty much the only thing buffed this patch?

How many weapons can the ranger use again?

Which ones are in sore need of help?

Is greatsword really what Anet should even be looking at?

Try answering those questions and re-evaluate the patch.

I use all of the weapons from time to time, and they are all extremely effective at what they do well. So, to answer your question: all of them are usable, and none are in sore need of help. I just happen to like the GS quite a bit, and it received a buff so I commented on it.

I don’t share your negative attitude, and I’m not trying to convince you to quit whining. Whine all you want. I’m old enough and observant enough that I realize that things change. It’s how you cope with these changes that help to define who you are. You want to waste your time and energy complaining, then please feel free to do so. I certainly will not stand in your way. In the meantime, I’ll do what I’ve been doing the whole time – playing and getting better.

Best of luck to you.

Thanks Chokolata. I just wanted to drop in and let you now that you aren’t alone. I’m very happy with my ranger, and the global changes to quickness (accompanied by the buff to QZ) hasn’t changed a thing.

I’m also an avid GS user, so the buffs there are really nice as well. I’ll miss the pet skill cd on swap, but it’s just something to get used to.

Fun! I’ll bite…

General PvE – Jag/Raven – tear through trash mobs like a hot knife through butter (or a cold knife through warm butter). Stealth and blind keep the heat off the pet for boss fights. Health on crit keeps them pretty well healed with minimal effort on my part.

Dungeons – Porcine/Moas – keep those pets on passive to control where and when you deliver a damage boost, or support to the team. Red/blue moa are my go-to’s 75% of the time. Devourers/dogs in some situations too.

WvW (roaming) – Wolf/Raven- KD, fear, blind, swiftness. Everything a growing ranger could need to control the situation.

WvW (zerg surfing) – Drakes/birds – group swiftness on demand, and the only AoE damage pets we have. Let the zergs crash into each other before sending your drake in so it doesn’t become a primary target.

WvW (siege attack) – usually moas for the group buffs, but it really depends on how/where/what we are assaulting.

WvW (defense) – Jag and any buff pet if I’m on the wall (jump down and send the jag after siege, then run back in). Wolf/drakehound/fernhound if I’m skirmishing on the ground.

PvP – wolf/fernhound/drakehound/raven/jag – some combo of these depending on what I’m trying to accomplish. Two dogs + SB/GS = stun lock party on your face, and I’m invited.

Of course I deviate situationally, but these are my general choices.

What I would like to see is for pet attacks to hit closer to the beginning of the animation (.5s-.75s so they could still be dodged), then be unable to perform additional actions until the animation finished – basically an internal cd for all pet skills based on the animation time. That way you could coordinate your pet’s attacks better. It’s always struck me as odd that they made the timing on pets so generally sloppy when the rest of the ranger’s abilities feel so crisp and precise.

Of course, on the other side of the coin, there are some fairly predictable behaviors you can exploit for your benefit (canine insta-leap on swap in leap range, moa heal on swap if health below ~75%-ish, drake tail swipe on swap in melee range, etc.), so I’ll just call it a steep learning curve for now…

I understand your (and plenty of others’) point of view on this subject, but I couldn’t agree less. The ranger’s special mechanic is having an animal companion. It’s there 100% of the time and is always part of your build. Accordingly, if I want to make a build that focuses on skirmishing, I want to be able to also enhance my always present special mechanic rather than completely neglect it.

Centralizing pet traits in the BM line would essentially force every ranger to invest 30 in BM in every build just to make the pets better than mostly crappy (I realize many of you feel like this is already the case, and I’ll just agree to disagree with you to avoid going off-topic). As it is now I can enhance my critical strikes and my pets at the same time, for instance. Mixing it up as they have is how you ensure that there is build diversity.

Likewise with traits that add offense in a defensive line or vice versa. Being able to compensate for lost damage from adding points to vitality, healing, or toughness is key to creating viable builds outside of min/maxing.

Plus you can avoid taking any pet focused traits if you want to. That option is always there.

This is pretty much my favorite ranger grandmaster trait. It’s most useful in PvP/WvW, but it’s still very useful in situations outside of PvP. In fact, with SB/GS, and two canines, you can keep any non-stable opponent stun-locked for ~9s straight (2×1.5s weapon stuns + 2×2s KD + 1×2s fear) without breaking a sweat. That’s plenty of time to take down anything that isn’t stuffed to the brim with vitality since your pet will hit with 100% of it’s strikes during that window. You can also pair with high-crit pets if you just want all-out damage and don’t feel like you need the extra control (you won’t need it for general PvE).

Just remember to time your pet swaps, wolf’s fear, and weapon skills so that your weapon skills are interrupting actions 5s apart to exploit the damage boost. The pet KDs/fear won’t add the 50% bonus damage, so those should be filler interrupts between your SB and GS.

I’m working on capturing some video footage for you guys (never done it before, so it’s a learning experience) since many here think the only viable ranger builds involve traps, but in the meantime feel free to PM me in-game of you would like details and/or a demonstration.

I get this behavior if I’m in certain areas. It’s been a dungeon every time, and fractals 80% of the time. Report it as a bug.

Akisame.9508:

Rummy, I’m not trying to get you upset or anything. I wasn’t trying to attack you either, please don’t get mad, although it might be late for that since your name is RummyTheMad. I was just stating a point that you left out in your equation, that’s it. didn’t mean anything by it personally. AkisameTheChillin (not to be confused with chili willy the penguin)

I’m not angry at all. I tend to write in a very dispassionate and deliberate voice, which does not at all reflect my emotional state. Other than having a lingering chest cold, I’m feeling great.

I absolutely hear what you guys are saying, and I wasn’t arguing that warriors don’t have the potential to do more raw damage. My point was (and still is), that there is more to consider than raw damage, and that your opponent’s ability to avoid damage is as important a factor when considering your overall DPS as simple damage numbers are.

We get a lot of anecdotal evidence thrown around here as proof that one class is better than another. It’s completely normal, so it has become accepted as actual evidence, which it simply is not. I consistently win fights against opponents of every profession on my ranger, so I have a hard time swallowing someone else’s “proof” that it’s not possible. I absolutely still get beat by better players, but there is no one profession that always beats me, and I personally have less trouble with warriors than most of the other professions if we’re talking about 1v1s. But again, none of that is relevant to the discussion at hand.

Sure we can say that good warriors don’t lose to rangers, but we can also say the opposite with exactly the same degree of certainty – none at all. I stand by my point that your net DPS is the relevant factor in this type of discussion, and player skill is more important by a wide margin.

jkctmc.8754:

@RummyTheMad

You do realize since the invention of MMOs there has been one underlying fact that everyone who has played MMOs long enough understands? That one underlying fact is that burst wins fights.

You can not dispute something that has been proven a thousand times over, in every MMO to date. Just because GW2 has done away with the holy trinity (tank, dps, healer) doesn’t mean that one fact has been removed.

Rangers do not have burst damage, and Warriors do. Even if Warriors didn’t have burst damage, they still do more damage overtime than a Ranger could ever do, by no less than double on tanky, or support builds, to as much as three times as much damage with a damage based build.

Burst damage brings people’s health down more quickly than DoT. It’s not better, it’s faster which can make it more difficult to counter in a timely fashion. Burst relies on the target being unable to respond quickly enough, and it can therefore be extremely effective. No argument there. I’m aware of the differences, and your oversimplification of the matter is neither accurate nor true.

Regardless, I’m trying to have a discussion about damage, and you are trying to have an argument over points that I’m not even making. I’ll let you continue that endeavor solo.

Akisame.9508:

What Jk is saying is true. What your saying is not reality, it’s theory. And while it looks like ranger wins on paper over the long run, which the fights normally don’t last that long, it’s not reality because you are not taking into account that after a couple of seconds, the warriors burst starts all over again, leaving the gap between the warrior and the ranger further apart. Your theory would be correct IF and only if the warrior could only use their burst once in a fight. Honestly though, their burst is enough to take out most ranger’s without having to wait for the timer to apply a second burst.

Look at the warzones, warrior wins hands down. last week I got one shot by a warrior, his rifle did more damage to me then I had hit points. And I didn’t even know where he was hiding at, I was running to catch up to the group that was planning on storming a fort.

Again, I encourage you to actually read my post. What I said is that rangers deal their damage more consistently while warrior damage comes in spurts. I realize that they can start the rotation over again, but a ranger can also dodge again.

Seriously guys. Drop the attitude for a second. I’m making general statements about damage and how we are talking about it. Rangers and warriors were referenced because…well look at the thread title.

jkctmc.8754:

Words

I don’t have issues hitting with my warrior. I don’t recall mentioning that I do, and if it seems I was implying that, I was not.

I don’t think I’ve ever lost a 1v1 to a ranger either. So what? All that proves is that I’ve never 1v1’ed a ranger that can beat me. Period. I think the forums have pretty well shown us that many ranger don’t play the class well, so I don’t find that to be shocking. But that sort of anecdotal “evidence” is meaningless. Don’t mistake correlation for causation.

I do wish we could duel more easily. I’m certainly not amazing or anything, but I’m pretty good, and I have a very solid PvP record on my ranger. I also have enough experience to know that the player, not the profession, is what wins fights. Could I beat you 1v1? I have no idea. What exactly do you think that would prove anyway? You may be an exceptional player, and you may be even better with your warrior. Neither of those two things makes any statement about the ranger profession.

I also agree that warriors are a solid profession. I’m not arguing that rangers are better than warriors or vice versa. I was making a general statement about how damage is dealt and avoided and how that relates to winning fights. You seem to be taking that to mean that I think rangers are inherently better. I’m not following your leap in “logic” on that one.

Seriously though, are you actually arguing that your relative net DPS is not the relevant measure in any given fight? That’s just math… If I do enough damage to you to down you, and you don’t do the same to me, I win. I was simply trying to flesh out the discussion a bit so that we aren’t falling into the same old “big numbers better” trap that all of these discussions seem to fall into.

@jkctmc and Brangien – Well, I’m guessing that you just read the TLDR part, and I would encourage you to read my post in its entirety as it completely explains everything you are refuting in your posts.

You guys are still arguing raw damage, and I certainly don’t disagree that a warrior hits for more damage per hit. But so what? If none of those big hits actually connect, then our theoretical warrior’s net DPS is 0. It doesn’t matter how big the individual hits are. Get it?

I have a fully geared level 80 warrior in addition to my ranger (engi, guardian, and thief too btw), so I’m familiar with what the class is capable of in terms of damage. Regardless of how much damage a warrior can pump out, I can control a fight far more effectively on my ranger, and I seldom lose to anyone that doesn’t play well – including warriors. Especially warriors actually.

So, if warriors simply “do more damage,” and that’s all that matters, how does anyone ever beat them? How has anyone ever killed your warrior? Warriors consistently have more armor and a larger health pool too, so they should have to do less damage over the course of a fight to beat a ranger than a ranger has to do to beat them… How is it that anyone is able to beat warriors 1v1?

I stand by my point because it’s true. Net DPS is the only thing that matters in the grand scheme. You can argue against it all you want, but reality dictates that I’m right.

Forzani.2584:

This thread isn’t about how to deal with certain classes…or how some players deal with burst damage better than other. The point is, the biggest complaint from every pvp game I have played like this is burst damage. The first year the Devs are always trying to find the right balance and are constantly tuning the burst down…and usually the Dots up.

….legitimate complaints ? Noone likes to die in less than 4 seconds. Even if they are bad players. Maybe Anet should come out with a statement …sorry dude, you are a bad player. Stop whinning and get better…. Safe to say you won’t get as many complaints from those ‘bad’ players when they lose to a Ranger after a 30+ second fight.

I know what the thread is about, I was just responding to your comment which specifically referenced thieves and how they are the source of complaints. The point being that complaints are not always representative of reality.

Anyway, you are right of course. Nobody likes to die from a surprise burst, and it can be very frustrating while you are learning how to play. Accordingly, people are going to complain about high-risk/high-reward classes like thieves. It’s to be expected, but it doesn’t mean that anything is inherently broken, or poorly balanced.

It’s funny that you should mention ANet putting out statements of that nature. I think it was in a developer blog post shortly before release when they said (and I’m paraphrasing): please take the time to learn how certain game mechanics work before reporting them as OP or broken. Essentially, they are saying spend some time figuring out how something works instead of immediately jumping to the conclusion that it doesn’t work. I’m not sure what happened to the blog posts when they switched the website to its current format, but I’ll see if I can find it so I can link it for you.

Nice! It wasn’t necessarily a concern of mine, but more knowledge certainly never hurts. Thanks for sharing Dancin.

Forzani.2584:

RummyTheMad.7290:

Forzani.2584:

I have played these type of games for many years. I have always been pulled towards clases like archers and casters like necros/Cabalists/Warlocks …Damage over time.

For all those classes, their DPS can be very good….after an amount of time occurs. That is fine in PvE. In PvP burst damage is > over time damage.

I have to disagree with you there. If that were true, then warriors and thieves would win every single fight which obviously doesn’t happen.

If you can eat or avoid burst damage, then DoT wins. If you can’t, burst wins. It’s an oversimplification, but DoT player needs to slow the fight down to win while a burst player needs to speed it up to win.

Browse the forums a bit. the #1 complaint in the game is Thief. Both stealth and dying to them after a 4 second chain.

I’m on here everyday, and I’m nothing if not completely familiar with people complaining about thieves. Just because the complaints exist does not mean that they are legitimate. Once you learn how to deal with thieves, they are little more than an annoyance…unless they are genuinely good players. But then again, good players playing rangers are also hard to beat. Good players are good. Surprise.

Interesting build Cempa. It looks like you’re going for a balance in this one.

From what I can see, your power would be in a good spot if your precision or condition damage were higher than it is. In other words, you’ll spend a moderately long time killing things, but your healing and toughness don’t really support a long-term battle. Also the precision looks a little low for on-crit sigils, but that may just be my preference. I don’t think the runes will provide enough fury uptime to make up for it, but I could be wrong.

I think a couple of equipment changes would put this build in a very usable place. Maybe use some combination of knight’s, cleric’s, or soldier’s gear to toughen up a touch. I would also change the runes and sigils to something that you can take better advantage of. Maybe something like Altruism for the runes (just throwing out the first one that comes to mind).

Forzani.2584:

I have played these type of games for many years. I have always been pulled towards clases like archers and casters like necros/Cabalists/Warlocks …Damage over time.

For all those classes, their DPS can be very good….after an amount of time occurs. That is fine in PvE. In PvP burst damage is > over time damage.

I have to disagree with you there. If that were true, then warriors and thieves would win every single fight which obviously doesn’t happen.

If you can eat or avoid burst damage, then DoT wins. If you can’t, burst wins. It’s an oversimplification, but DoT player needs to slow the fight down to win while a burst player needs to speed it up to win.

Interestingly, I just had this very discussion with a guildmate a couple of nights ago. The thing is that arguments of this nature tend to be very one-dimensional, and only consider the raw damage numbers of the professions being compared. But you can’t simply look at raw damage numbers in a vacuum and expect to understand anything about DPS.

Anyway, let’s look at what we’re actually talking about: raw damage, raw DPS, and net DPS – three very different things. Raw damage is the numbers you see popping up on the screen. Raw DPS is the average amount of damage that you output in any given second, and net DPS is the average amount of damage that actually makes it to your target in any given second. The first is a snapshot of a moment in time, the other two are time-dependent.

Warriors attempt to dish out big damage in a short span of time, but their damage drops considerably between their flurries. Sure many of their skills are on relatively short cds, but the important concept is that the vast majority of their damage is applied in quick bursts. This means that they have very high raw DPS during a burst, but a much lower raw DPS between bursts. So a warrior is more efficient in a short fight.

Rangers on the other hand push out multiple small hits over the span of a fight, and their bursts aren’t nearly as high. Their raw damage is unarguably smaller than a warrior’s, but the ranger is going to be landing more hits during a fight than a warrior can. Because their raw DPS during any given period of a fight is more consistent, the ranger’s raw DPS is as good as, if not higher than, a warrior’s if the fight goes on long enough. So rangers become the more efficient choice the longer a fight lasts.

I think we can all agree that warriors have more access to raw damage, but rangers apply their damage more consistently over time. Regardless, raw damage and raw DPS don’t win fights. Having a higher net DPS than your opponent wins fights. So in a ranger vs. warrior scenario, superior mobility, superior access to damage mitigation techniques, and the ability to spread consistent outgoing damage over multiple sources are the tools a ranger can use to win the “damage” battle.

TLDR – “Damage” is too vague of a concept for a proper discussion. Warriors win the raw damage battle, but over time rangers win the raw DPS battle. The net DPS battle can go either way – that’s where player skill enters the equation.

deepwinter.9015:

While I was farming for ore, a player fell from the cliff overhead onto a ledge next to me. When you die from a fall, you do not enter Downed state – you are fully defeated. I switched a utility and sent my pet up to revive him, and it worked.

Search & Rescue can revive a defeated player: Confirmed!

I’m pretty sure you are right, and I recall having similar experiences using SnR in the past. However recently, I have been unable to get it to work on defeated players (tried on 3 separate occasions).

Come to think of it all of my attempts were in WvW, so maybe they killed it in there to prevent the mesmer res thing…

cacklingcat.2938:

I guess you should look at them as skills then and not pets that’s why you can switch them fast and the refresh time isn’t to long. So basically there skills pretending to be your pets

Actually, you’ve hit the nail right on the head. Your pet control skills should be part of your rotation. If they’re not, then know that you have willingly put yourself at a disadvantage in every fight. That is not the fault of the profession, or the way it’s designed. That’s your choice to make your ranger weaker than it needs to be. Whether or not you like the way ANet designed the ranger is not relevant to the discussion. The ranger is designed as a profession that uses a pet 100% of the time. Period. That is reality. Move on from there.

That doesn’t mean you can’t also spec to be an archer. Spec 30/30/…whatever else you want, bring a couple of bows, and set your pet to “do not attack.” Your pets can still be an asset by providing buffs, poison fields, AoE chilling, AoE dazing, AoE confusion, AoE fear, useful bundles, etc. for your and your team’s use, or against anyone that encroaches on your personal space.

There are different ways of using your pets. Get creative instead of complaining, or take the advice of the rangers that aren’t having trouble. If you are having as much trouble as some of you’re claiming to be having, you are just doing it wrong. It’s not a big deal, and it’s not an assault on your ego. Just accept it and change the way that you are approaching the profession, or play something that fits your needs a little better. ANet made eight professions for a reason…

Sir Wai.4052:

I logged in just to fix the previous post… Arrow speed indeed increase but you can still side step them just takes better timing. Pets do hit moving target more reliable but doesn’t help they aren’t faster to chase them unless specced or dead from aoe’s from other players or bosses. Great sword was a good update being able to block and move is quite nice, but the root to throw the sword is still there. Skirmishing trait I believe was on opening strikes which sucks anyway, especially useless if your in constant combat. We did become aquaman so I guess that’s good? Doesn’t help since underwater combat is annoying and not that frequent. Drakes tail swap indeed occur however the drake is useless. Burst pets are birds and you bring the topic of AOE? You position your pet correctly and with all that aggro it’s dead anyway.

Longbow/great sword ranger with legendary and 1.1k hours played opinion, 10k wvwvw kills. Last played in December.

Improvements that didn’t change how I played except for the great sword so much isn’t it?

Wait, you log in to correct my post, but stayed silent when the first responder forgot to list practically every single fix that’s been implemented? Sigh…

There’s nothing to fix in my post. Everything I listed is accurate. Btw, Opening Strike is a Marksmanship trait. The trait I was speaking of is Moment of Clarity, which in no way, shape, or form sucks.

The fact that so many people are still having trouble with their rangers has nothing to do with whether or not updates happened. The fact that you’ve played yours so much and haven’t figured it out is just… Anyway, I wasn’t having trouble before the patches, and I’m still not having trouble after them.

arenta.2953:

no, we still w8ing for it. so far all we’ve really gotten is +25% movement speed instead of +10%. but that was all classes that had +10% so not ranger exclusive.

and recently spirits got +25% hp.

honestly by now you can jsut assumed Anet lied or forgot about that promise and ranger is about dead. i’m sure someone will say it will come eventually. but honestly i’d rather not w8 2 years for it to come.

In addition, we also got an arrow speed increase on both bows, a fix to make pets hit moving targets more reliably, enhancements to the greatsword, an improvement to one of the Skirmishing grandmaster traits, several improvements to underwater skills, a fix for the drakes’ tail swipe, and a few other things I can’t remember off of the top of my head.

Of course, all of these improvements have somehow been spun as nerfs in the ranger forum, but the facts speak for themselves. Rangers have received some significant improvements and are feeling pretty strong these days.

BroScientist.9875:

nerva.7940:

PHT – tanky BM evasion bunker
PVT + PPC (berserker) – LB/BM sniper
HTC – tanky conditions BM, or tanky trapper
PPV (knight’s) – for SB burst builds/skirmishing

then u can try pure damage gear for traps, conditions or burst, which i wouldnt recommend. best build tends to revolve around the BM tree and +healing.

Sorry, could you elaborate on what pvt, htc, and ppv stands for? Seen them used a lot and still have no idea what they mean.

PHT = power/healing/toughness (Cleric’s)
PVT = power/vitality/tougness (Soldier’s)
PPC = power/precision/critical damage (Berserker’s)
HTC = healing/toughness/condition damage (Apothecary)
PPV should be PPT = power/precision/toughness (Knight’s)

PPV only exists in s/tPvP

nerva.7940:

i cant find a use for my ranger in WvW. and i’ve pushed him to the max.

- long range sniping – done way better by GS mesmers and rifle warriors
- spirits suck – even if they weren’t instakilled, their buffs and actives are useless
- burst – done way better by just about every single profession
- chasing – not bad, but again, done way better by warriors, thieves and d/d eles
- sieging – barrage? send pet over wall? not bad, but i’d rather play a mesmer, ele, engie, or necro for this

i already rolled with PVT and zerker gear, LB and GS for long range engagements/sniping/burst. i found this to be just alright at times. most of the time, i’d be easily dispatched by thieves. and my biggest issues with the build was that Rapid Fire burst even with QZ was virtually negated by a single dodge roll.

right now im using a bunker BM build to distract thieves until my group kills them. this is by far the most useful thing i can do as a ranger. as opposed to my meditation guard, who wrecks WvW by providing serious buffs, virtually unlimited CC, and decent burst all with one build.

this isnt just an angry pointless post, which is how i feel as a ranger. id love some tips!

Honestly, time and patience are going to be your best friends here. Everyone sucks at first, and everyone feels useless at first. It took me a solid month of WvW before I discovered what I enjoy doing, and what I do well.

My personal experience is that a balanced, or more damage oriented build is preferable in WvW. Balanced if you want to roam solo or in a small group, damage if you are running with the zerg or defending predominately. Don’t be afraid of completely scrapping your build and trying something radical. I basically sat down and identified the things that were the biggest nuisances for me, and traited to compensate for those things. These days, I run an oddball build that adapts well to most situations.

Also, try looking at the ranger from a different perspective. Yes, it’s true that every other class does something better than the ranger, but it’s also true that there isn’t much that the ranger can’t do adequately at least. Use that to your advantage as it means that you will be good enough in every situation, rather than the best at any one situation.

Maximum Potato.5923:

RummyTheMad.7290:

Your chosen traits, pets and weapons are just fine for a pure damage build.

Check with the master craftsman of your crafting professions. They will have recipes for rare and exotic weapons if you want to continue to craft all of your gear. As you already know, you can also just buy rare and/or exotic gear on the trading post if you prefer.

Beyond any of that, just play around with traits and equipment in the PvP lobby until you decide what works best for you. PvE/WvW gear is not exactly the same as the PvP gear though, so be aware of the differences (mostly that PvP gear has a lot more vitality attached to it in place of toughness in most cases).

See, that’s a problem I’m facing, regards crafting. I’ve put alot of coin into improving my crafting skill, and I don’t seem to be seeing any results. Why is a basic lv70 longbow on the TP far more powerful than the Lv60 elderwood longbow I can make?

Unfortunately, that’s just the way that the gear scales. I assure you that once you have maxed your crafting profession, and purchased the appropriate recipes (w/ karma btw. no coin used for those), you will be crafting the best gear in the game… until they introduce an ascended tier of armor and weapons that is.

Crafting is unfortunately not a money-maker at this point, but I have found that it is still cheaper than outright purchasing. Gather/mine/harvest as much as you can. Use Black Lion salvage kits (or master salvage kits) on your useless rares of lvl 60 or greater and you should have enough ectos rolling in to craft top tier gear.

My philosophy is that my gear can be a pile of kitten until I’m max level. Once I’m 80, then it’s time to focus on the best stuff. Until then it’s all throw away gear anyway.

Your chosen traits, pets and weapons are just fine for a pure damage build.

Check with the master craftsman of your crafting professions. They will have recipes for rare and exotic weapons if you want to continue to craft all of your gear. As you already know, you can also just buy rare and/or exotic gear on the trading post if you prefer.

Beyond any of that, just play around with traits and equipment in the PvP lobby until you decide what works best for you. PvE/WvW gear is not exactly the same as the PvP gear though, so be aware of the differences (mostly that PvP gear has a lot more vitality attached to it in place of toughness in most cases).

You are not the only one. I’ve basically stopped posting on these forums because any attempt to get the can’t play crew to try anything that works is met with a chorus of swift and all-encompassing denial. Even positive changes are respun as negative in these forums. I honestly don’t understand the attitude. It boggles the mind.

I will admit that there is a higher learning curve on the ranger than most of the other classes, but once you get there it’s easy to take out most other profs regardless of build. Do I get outplayed sometimes? Yep. I’m old enough that my reflexes aren’t as sharp as the younger guys, but I compensate for it by building to my strengths.

Oh, and I completely agree with you on keybindings. The defaults are as bad as they are in every MMO, and should be changed immediately. A good ranger can control their pet well. Put those keys somewhere in easy reach and use them. Function keys are for chumps and suckers. :P

Leveling with a ranger is really easy since your pets will basically do all of the work until you get to higher levels. You should experiment with all of the weapons and pets as you go, and don’t worry about trait choice too much until you hit 80. You’ll be resetting them twice as you use the trait tier books, and by the time you hit level 60 it should be pretty clear how you want to spec.

The best thing you can do is play the ranger the way that it feels most comfortable for you. There is a pretty high skill barrier since rangers, more than other professions, have to continuously manage their special ability (pets), so there is no reason to make it harder on yourself than it needs to be.

…and yes, sword-torch is probably the best overall damage set we have right now, but don’t let that color your weapon choice too much. In GW2, being able to control a fight is infinitely more important than seeing lots of numbers pop up.

OGDeadHead.8326:

wtbingbongbadbear.1245:

Apoth Gear

What is that? Link please?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Apothecary%27s#Triple_attribute

Apothecary’s is a new stat combo that was introduced with the Lost Shores event. Heal/Tough/Cond Dam