Guild Wars 2

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

“More realistic”

Have you not taken a look around the real world at some of the outlandish kitten “real” people do?

I mean, I get your point. I understand that if you don’t care for a particular skin, or all the effects of some skins, it can be super annoying. However, that’s life. You can’t control what’s popular, what others like or don’t like, what others wear or don’t wear. Just like real life, other people make their own decisions. You don’t have to like it. You do sort of have to deal with it though.

I think your comparison with real life is incomplete. The characters we play are soldiers (or commanders) fighting dragons, gods and so on. The real life counterparts aren’t “normal” people but soldiers. And I’m not sure they wear what they want. So except in the capitals where you can find strange characters looking like they come from The Hunger Games movies, you should’nt wear bunny ears, useless wings or armor that don’t protecter your breast (for female).

Hevoskuuri.3891:

If the ‘immersion breaking’ skins bother you so much, maybe you should consider switching to an immersive sim game. GW2 is after all a game set in a fantasy world with dragons and magic (and has never claimed to be realistic in any sense), what else you’d expect?

Edit: this is not a personal attack, I’m simply just tired of seeing people complain about immersion, which sounds really silly to me considering the game’s theme, lore and genre.

I don’t think you understand what immersion is. In a fantasy game, fighting a dragon with magic don’t break your immersion but enhances it. Fighting a dragon with magic and mates wearing stupid pink bunny ears and useless wings however breaks the immersion. Look at ESO, it is a fantasy game but it rather immersive. Even WoW is more immersive. Only Asian RPG are less immersive.

My Guardian Charr, Aurok Ironmaw.

You are probably both true, but I think if Anet don’t bring massive overhaul for the next xpac, it will be more and more complicated to have a balanced and clear game and the situation of elitism and over optimization we know today will be worse.
Imagine : you will have to be a shadowspy thief (4th xpac elite spec) to tank and a brewmaster warrior (5th xpac elite spec) to heal, the other slots will be filled by lemon hunter guardians (3th xpac elite spec) and jester mesmers (4th xpac elite spec).
What a mess.

CptAurellian.9537:

How can PoF “clarify” anything when HoT elite specs and core specs remain?

If I was a dev I would make this :
1) each class has now a “vanilla” elite spec. The spec would be the one that improves the F1 F2 etc buttons. Virtues for guard, arcane for ele, etc …
2) Elite spec don’t determine your role but how you do it (with virtues, with a pet, with a toolkit, with tomes etc). The traits would be utility/pvp oriented (like “when feared, gain aegis” etc).
3) Classic specs orient your role in group, according the roles available to your class. i.e for warrior who would be a “DPS tank”, 2 spec oriented for damage (power and condi), 2 spec oriented for tanking (mitigation and self-healing/or avoidance). Each spec should be totally disconnected to not overlapping and reinforcing each other, so power/condi would be as powerful that power/mitigation etc. Guardian who would be a “support tank”, whould have a mitigation spec, a self-healing spec, an offensive support spec, a defensive/healing support spec.

I think the major problem in raid and other modes in this game is balance.

PoF should be the opportunity to balance the classes by clarifying theirs specs and theirs roles. Each class should a clear role in a group. I think each class have a natural “dual” role :

Warrior & Necro : DPS Tank
Guardian & Revenant : Support Tank
Ranger & Ele : DPS Support
Mesmer & Thief : DPS & Utility (cc, stealth, mobility)
Engie : Jack of all trades

It’s a total non sense a pink light armored wizard is chosen as a tank over a warrior.

I can never understand why people keep mistaking GW2 for an immersive simulator game

Maybe because its an mmoRPG ?
Dragons, rodent race and magic don’t break immersion in a fantasy RPG, but female characters with bunny ears, useless wings, clothes that don’t protect their breasts, mounting giant corgis to fight dragons and rodent race do. Why someone would wear bunny ears to fight Balthazar ? Why would someone breed giant corgis to fight Palawa Joko ? It is not because GW2 is a fantasy world that it don’t has to respect common sense.
Even WoW with his stupid gnome & goblin stuffs and these polluting flying mounts is more immersive. Compare GW2 and ESO, which is the more immersive ? I wait the day a MMORPG comes with the neat gameplay and dynamic events of GW2 and the immersive world of ESO.

After wings and bunny ears you want that now ?
NO !
There is enough breaking-immersion stuff.

Zefiris.8297:

In WoW, you used to have similar mandatory buffs that meant some classes were always taken, while others never were.

In fact since the first xpac, Burning Crusade, I don’t remember that a class wasn’t allowed in a competitive raid group. Only some “pvp” spec, like frost mage, weren’t. Even in vanilla I don’t think some classes weren’t allowed, but i didn’t raid in vanilla, so i’m not sure. And since Cataclysm (third xpac) all spec are competitive and allowed in raid.
I dislike many things at WoW, but its raid balance is far better to GW2. And classe roles were more logic since the beginning, on contrary to what we see in GW2. At WoW all heavy armor classes can tank while the light armored casters cannot. The mesmer situation is a joke in this game.

This makes me sick.
At World of Warcract if the druid heal is a bit overpowered, most raid groups won’t care if they don’t have one. All spec are welcomed, all you need is 2 tanks, 3 healers and 5 DPS. Even in mythic difficulty. Raid group setup only mates if you aim the first kill server.
This is why if I really want to raid I stop to play GW2 and come back to WoW, where the raiding community is more reasonable.
You should question yourself concerning your so great meta which makes flee so many players.

Luclinraider.2317:

Why can you only equip one specialization?

Not sure why I can’t have my HoT and my PoF specializations equipped at the same time……or am I just not seeing it.

Think about this :
If you play Guardian and spec into Drangon Hunter AND Firebrand, which virtues would appear ? Those of DH ? FB ?

Firebrand brings interesting gameplay as a support, but :
- The spec doesn’t have enough survival &/or mobility for a melee support. In comparison, DH needs less survival & mobility but have more of both.
- Cones on mantras & tomes make the spec very hard to play and even inefficient on boss with large hit box or in pvp.
- At GW2 release, Guardian was advertised as the support class, for monk, parangon and ritualist fans. I’m note sure Firebrand bring enough support compared to the Druid. Seems ranger will continue to be THE support class.

- Clarify roles, strenghts and weakness of each classes, with all skills clearly fitted for. Guardian is supposed to be the tanky support ? Ok, so don’t bring healing skills to the ranger (druid) instead.

- Don’t make the PC a chosen one / commander / boss / wathever. PC is an adventurer assisting Rytlock & cie.

- Don’t create wings & bunny bugs.

True MMOs are created to last a long time. GW2 is still a relatively new MMO. GW3, WoW 2, SWTOR 2 and ESO2 won’t happen. A game engine can be replaced without changing the game. Non-MMO game make series of 2,3 or more games because it boosts sells, but it is the contrary for MMOs. WoW constantly enhance the engine at each Xpac for years, Blizzard knows it would be a disaster to make a WoW2 and I think Anet is also enough smart to know that.

Lancaeron.1524:

Actually, The Revenant is NOT based on the Ritualist. It’s successor is the Engineer, who is a modern-day twist on the Ritualist. Ritualists use the spirits of the dead to channel their powers. Engineers use turrets, as well as firearms.

This is probably true in terms of gameplay, but it is completly stupid in terms of roleplay and “consumer (player) targeting”. Someone who was fan of the ritualist, a shamanistic, mystic class using an old dying magic and reprenting the dying past of Tyria, isn’t likely to take the exact opposite archetype, a class based on modern gadgets and science and who represents the future of Tyria.

Coming from WoW I searched a class close to the shaman (a supportive mystic class using ancient magic) and a lot of people said me engineer … because of the totems … LMAO.

The entire point of elite specs is that it feels like a new class, they are not meant to be a replica of our core traits, not every elite spec is going to be a support/dps/tank spec.

I think they should strip ALL support from the Firebrand and focus on making it a strong condi burn spec.

Guardian was originally designed as a tanky support. I create a Guardian to be that. We get a damage elite spec as our first elite spec. The true guardian players deserve now a support spec or a tanky spec.

Great post.

I create a guardian as my first and only character to be a durable support. I thought it would be the “healer” of the game, not the ranger with it’s hunter beastmaster archetype. I want the Firebrand to be a true healer that can compete the Druid.

We are not meant to forget about DragonHunter, elite specs are meant to be switched in and out, let DragonHunter be our elite spec for PvP, and Firebrand our elite spec for PvE, it makes balance easier and allows the devs to make those elite spec strong in their unique ares.

If
1) It is not clearly stated by the devs that FB is for PvE and DH for PvP
2) and other classes don’t have the same situation (an elite for pve and an elite for pvp)
it’s a design failure.
Is GW2 an AAA buy to play MMO or an obscure free to play MMO ?

What is Seven Deadly Sins ?

DPS meter is good for games where classes are well balanced, like WoW. This isn’t the case in GW2.

I personnally don’t understand the point of a public beta test if the elite spec aren’t avaible. I don’t want story spoilers …

Pof should have been an opportunity to clarify traits line and roles.
Basically almost every classes have one spec dedicated to power (direct damages), one to condi, one to support, one to tank (control & survival), and one to a specific class feature (pets for ranger, virtues for guardian, weapon switching for warrior …). And of course one and soon 2 elite spec.
However in overall and especially for some classes (thief, engineer …) the link between trait lines and roles are very blured, in some cases a trait line seems aimed to 2 roles or a trait line seems totally irrevelant and useless.

This is why I expected PoF would bring these changes :
- Each class have now one trait line clearly dedicated to one role, with minor traits very suitted for the aimed role and with major traits permitting role “crossovers”.
- Each weapon is now clearly suitted for one role (or 2 roles for the two hand weapons)
- Each class have now one “vanilla” elite specialization which is granted to the players at level 1
- Elite spec aren’t linked to a role, their purpose is to bring and replace class features (“this elite spec bring pets, but this bring tool kits, and this make you a shapeshifter …”)
- You have now inevitably one elite spec and two non elite spec.
- There are now 8 attributes : 2 for each role. Power and Precision for DPS, condition damage and expertise for condi, vitality and thougness for tanking, concentration and healing power for support. Ferocity is now granted through traits, like quickness.

What do you think ? Is it too late to expect these modifications ?

voidvector.2780:

Theoretically there could be a PS warrior tank (tank and PS support), but that hasn’t emerge.

This game is often disappointing. Tanking is a natural role for the warrior in every game. Players don’t play warriors to be support healers but to be tanks.

Brutaly.6257:

3. Perfect inscriptions.
Nice change but it is not enough. The passive on allies needs to benefit the allies even if the signet is used, other wise it wont work. The actives are to good not to be used (unlike untraited virtues) so this change has close to zero impact on signets builds or the lack of signet builds.

Perfect Inscriptions: This no longer grants light aura but instead shares the passive effects of the activated signets with your allies.

I think you didnt understand the perfect inscription update.

starlinvf.1358:

in WoW, even with the much much larger money and manpower Blizzard throws at that game, 2%-3% were all it took for one DPSer to be rolled by everyone and their mother.

This is highly exagerated. In PvE most people don’t change their class for 2-3% of DPS increase. And only the “pure” DPS classes (mage, rogue, hunter, lock) change their spec at each patch (and only the players in top guilds). Even in PvP a lot of people, the majority I think, try to keep one class as a main.
In addition, since WOTLK (the third xpac, 2008), you will never be kicked from a group because of your class and spec (except maybe for the “pure” DPS class players wich are sometimes forced to change their spec). During WOTLK I played a spec a bit underperforming in a guild that aimed and succeded to be the first guild on the server, and I never was put aside because “bring the player, not the class” is the creed of Blizzard and the community integrated this on its mentality.
This is the main reason why WoW is still my main MMO today, despite I prefer GW2 in some ways.

Do you know if old skills and traits from vanilla (and HoT ?) will be updated for PoF, like vanilla traits were highly reshaped just before HoT ? The new elite traits will change the balance paradigm and an xpac is the right time to take care about never used and underperforming trait lines.

we really dont have the time specially for (working/student) players to grind to get to level 80.

The irony is the only thing a lvl 10-79 dont have access is the raid. When you become lvl 10 you have access to 99% of the game, so no need for grinding. What you will do now as a new 80 is almost the same thing you would have do if you hadnt use the boost : exploring, event, pvp …

Anet moved from GW1 to GW2 for two reasons :
- to create a MMO (GW1 was cooperation game)
- because GW1 graphics were too old.
None of this reasons exist today, GW2 graphics are cartoonish enough to seem correct for 10 years and more (like WoW). Everquest needed a sequel because they targeted too realistic grapics, and Everquest 2 couldnt beat WoW in the long run for the same reason.
So no GW3 before at least 10 years (and probably never).

Your topic will be outdated tomorrow.

Fenom.9457:

Scipion.7548:

Shield for Guardian.

……….

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shield

Didnt the shield guardian for months, I thought anet removed it ! Thank you for your intelligence and generosity, i’m so stupid ><

Shield for Guardian.

Hmm, the only result would be that the promoted spec can no longer be picked together with a different elite spec. For example elementalists could no longer pick tempest and arcane at the same time. While this would certainly “enforce” some core builds, because people are potentially forced to choose between two specs they’d like to take, I believe that further limiting the available choices is a bad move.

I know this is the price but I think this situation is better than the current one.
If today you are forced to take you elite spec (wich is the case for most class), you have to choose 2 spec between 5, you have 10 combinations avaible.
With my system, you choose one elite between 2, and 2 base spec between 4, you have 12 combinations avaible. You would have 6 new combinations avaible for each elite spec release.
On the other hand, if elite spec is balanced to the other spec lvl, with the current system you have 20 combinations avaible (so it seems the best situation) but this number would increase exponentially with each elite spec release … considering Anet isnt the best team for balancing classes, Im not sure this system is the best.

I think in order to make core builds viable again the core specs need more diversity. Add some damage to the support specs, some support to the tank specs and some tankyness to the damage specs. As soon as the third spec doesn’t feel like a wasted pick anymore core builds will shine again.

I think the best solution is to promote a core spec to an elite spec (wich would be available with the core game). Usually each class seems to have a trait line that improves the F1 F2 … skills. The virtue line for the guardian, discipline for warrior, arcane for ele, BM for ranger, trickery for thief, tools for engie, illusions for mesmer. Not sure for rev and necro.
Those trait lines seems perfect candidates to become elite core spec.
A guardian would so have the choice between Virtues (and staying a Guardian) and, if he bought HoT, Dragon Hunting (and becoming a Dragon Hunter).

Often the two actually seem to go together because they’re people who don’t care about the story or lore, so when it comes to the game mechanics they view it strictly in terms of what works best, instead of choosing skills and traits to fit a theme or backstory.

I have experienced the opposite most of the time. People with bunny ears and stupid wings are often -18 year old people.

Other games have added levels when they release xpacs so we can’t really complain about elites. There will always be new stuff to entice players to buy xpacs.

It is not the same problem. Personnaly, I’m totally ok with the fact that a HoT player has advantages. The problem for me is the fact I have HoT but I like more my “core class” than my elit spec, but I’m forced to play my elite spec because it is far more efficient …
Core class should be equal to elite. Anet should search something else to force to buy HoT, because it also hurts HoT players.

Xcorpdog.2840:

Luna.1839:

I’m wondering if anyone has a good high dps DH build that doesn’t involve retaliation?

Retaliation is a killer when you’re dealing with the Boon Thieves instability… Metabattle builds for fracs all seem to include some traits that give retal, so they’re out.

Thanks in advance

Generally when doing fractals with my guild, we don’t bother with a guard anymore. As it stands you want a mesmer for quickness and alacrity anyways and they can bring reflects. The only boss that could give you trouble is bloom hunger but since the current system either doesn’t give full rewards for this tier or just doesn’t give you swamp this is a non issue.

You realize you totally dont answer his question ?

In EU server, I have roughly 4 win for 1 defeat. Seems to be bad luck for you. Try to join the map 10-15 minutes before, you will have more chance to have a populated map. Also, maybe explain the CC thing to the other players.

Are necros accepted in Dungeon and Fractals?

Depressing. I dont know other AAA mmorpgs where you can read that kind of question, “is class X accepted in …”.
Has GW2 the worst community or the worst balance classes ?

Why then does Zeal have the primarily Condi traits like Kindled Zeal and Expeditious Spirit, or Control based traits like Binding Jeopardy?
Why Does Radiance have primarily power traits like Right Hand Strength and Retribution or Control based traits like Wrath of Justice and Justice is Blind?
Why does Valor have support based traits like Communal Defenses or Monk’s Focus or Power based traits like Retributive Armor?
Why does Honor have Power Enhancing traits like Writ of Persistence or surival Based Traits like Purity of Body and Force of Will?

Because of synergy. And in fact, what are you saying is exactly what I wanted to say by (auto quote) :

But it isnt enough defined in the game, for now.

You dont contradict me, on the contrary.

Since when have their been tanks and healers in gw2?

Since the beginning. They were just ineffective until recently. Anet seems to want to change that with the raids and the druid.

GW2 identifies Damage/CC/Support as its trinity, not Damage/Tank/Healer.

This isnt a counter argument. People who want to “tank” will be satisfied with the “control” role, same with healing and support.

If you want to “heal” allies, you aim for a combination of dps/support depending on your class.

I think a “gw2 trinity” should be that, but it isnt enough developped for now. A “gw2 healer” (which is actually a dps/support hybrid as you said) shouldnt wear beserker for example. And not just druid and auramancer should be able to do that. I created a guardian to … well … to guard people, not to be a berserker DPS.
I thought I could be a dps/support hybrid that would be truly recognized for that.

In my opinion GW2 need more defined roles, but not like WoW and other games. I think you should have to choose 2 roles between 4 : power, condi, tanky, support. It is already like that in the game, but it isnt enough clear and not accessible for all classes.

Edit for some proofs for what I said :
All classes have a power spec, a condi spec, a support spec, a tanky spec and a general spec (which sould be an alternative elite spec in my opinion). i.e for guardian :
Zeal = power
Radiance = condi
Honor = support
Valor = tanky
Virtues = general
I think that when I choose Zeal and Honor, I should be truly recognized as a dps/support hybrid. Or with Zeal and Radiance a pure DPS. But it isnt enough defined in the game, for now.

It’s an opinion. That’s it. If you don’t agree with it, fine. It’s simple!

Dont you realize that exaclty every people on this topic dont agree with your opinion ? Don’t you think you should admit that you are probably wrong if dozens of people disagree with you ?

And about “true” MMORPG …. A MMO is massivly multiplayer online game, and a RPG is a role playing game. None of this concept are implying that you should be able to oneshot low lvl. Each game has his rules. GW2 is a game where 100% of the content is still relevant when you are a max lvl, and “bizarrely” 99,9999999999999% of the players are happy with that (you guessed I think that you are the 0,0000000000000001% that have the “true”, the “good” opinion about what is a true MMORPG).

Xenesis.6389:

/use brain….

Fixed.

I came on this game just some weeks before the HoT release and I find this game pretty noob-friendly. With just one exception, like the OP said : fractals are a mess for the noobs, I didnt understand for a long time what they are and how they work, and the wiki wasnt very explicit. And I am the kind of noob that understand pretty quickly …
The rest of the game mechanics however were easy to learn I find. What is important is that you wholy understand the game when you tilt 80, its not a problem that you dont understand sigil system or whatever when you are still lvl 40. The leveling is here to have the time to learn.

If they ever decide to make a gw3 I hope they get rid of that stupid scaling system, because it really makes the game look like child’s play.

Isnt a child’play a game where you can one shot the “bad people” ?
The scaling system is one of the best thing this game created.
GW2 is a game where you can still play at your favorite region without losing your time.

Go play WoW if this is bothering you.

Even WoW will use a system like this for the regions of its next xpac. And if this system is extended to the old vanilla regions, it would be a good reason for me to return on this game. I really love Barrens, Mulgore and Durotar but I can no longer play on those regions with my main character for years ….
Really the OP opinion isnt understandable, seems he was never frustrated to see his favorite region becoming useless.

AND why aren’t all armour/weapons available to wear nomatter what class your character is?

My opinion is that there is fun when a player feels like he has ‘freedom’.

Your suggestion is totally unfriendly with freedom. In a MMO, too many freedom kill the freedom.
Look a Elder Scrolls Online. You can wear all armor and all weapon no matter your class. And what has happened ? You are forced to be a shield wielder in heavy armor if you want to tank, what ever your class. You cannot be a DPS in heavy armor. You cannot be a magic user with a sword and medium armor.
In the end, you couldnt even reconize your class.

No. We are in a fantasy game, not a sci fi one. Asura armors are enough fururistics.

What we need more is on contrary less flashy and stupid, more realistic, armors.

My whishlist for the next xpac :
- a new race
- new elit spec for each classes
- a true introduction to the new elit spec that fit the lore
- more lore for classes
- story less disney channel and more “the night is dark and full of terrors”
- in fact simply hire true writers for story and lore
- more balance between skills (see the never used guardian spirit weapons)
- other roles than berserker DPS more usefull (and accepted) in all type of contents and for all classes (or rework the classes that should only have access to berserk DPS and clearly tell this to the player at the character creation)
- dungeons no longer abandonned
- making new raid only if new dungeons and fractals are developped
- events less messy

I think raids good to interests new players, but :
- they shouldnt focus on them over dungeons and other kind of “casual” contents, because the majority of the players arent hardcore gamers, especially on this game.
- they should have balanced classes. If healer is required we should have more options than druid for that role. Some classes are “too much” usefull while others are useless. A true raiding game cannot accept that.

Why do people like me say what we do? Because our definition of “trinity” and yours are different. Simple as that.

I cannot accept your arguments and you cannot accept mine if you dont talk about the same thing. The OP never implied your idea of what is the trinity system. The pro-trinity never said only the Druid should be the healer or only the warrior sould be the tank. We arent on a early 2000s MMO.

What is the trinity system ? It is a system where you have 3 roles : tank, DD, healer.
The other details depend of the game. Some classes cannot take one of this role ? Maybe, maybe not, it depends of the game. Are DD speced character enable to do off-tank or off-healer ? Depends. Hybridity ? Depends.
So you sentence “In a Trinity MMO every class isn’t supposed to be able to do it all, each class is specialized.” isnt universally true. It depends of the game.

In a Trinity system not every class can tank, not everyone can heal, not everyone can do CC/Support.

In a game like GW2, it could be the case.

Anet won’t add new classes to base game like a Healer class

Why Anet would add a Healer class ?
We have already 9 healer classes ! The only problems are :
- they are not balanced
- they arent always usefull

What 9 healer classes i’m speaking about ?
- Honor guardian
- Shadow art thief
- Water Ele
- Tactics Warrior
- Nature magic ranger
- Inspiration mesmer
- Blood magic necro
- Invention Engie
- Salvation Rev

Look at this trait lines. All of them imply healing. Each classes has a healing trait line, a tank one, a power one, a condi one, a global one (which should be an elit spec), and the elit spec line. All what the warrior need to be a “true” healer is some balance tricks and the capacity to be as usefull than a power warrior.

The definition I go by is DAoC’s trinity concept which was Tank/Healer/CrowdControl-Support. There can be more than one Tank Class, more than one Healing class, etc. These are the “aspects” I was taught comprise a trinity class system. In that trinity system everyone was responsible for DPS in addition to their primary role, or when dpsing like mad to finish a fight quickly, so no need to have classes “just for DPS” like later MMOs had.

When I speak about trinity system in GW2, it is exactly that. Why didnt you use this definition of trinity ? I used this definition.
But GW2 isnt like that. It could be, but it isnt.

There would effectively only be one healing class, one tank and one dps, because for each role there would be one class and build that is considered meta, even if it isn’t.

Why it isnt the case on other MMOs ?
When I was a healer shaman on WoW, my healer spec was sometimes behind the other healers, while the damage spec of my class were sometimes better than other DPS spec. But I never be blamed to not respec DPS. And I did heroic raids, wich were more hard that GW2 raid.
Is the player mentality worse in GW2 than in WoW or what ?

Only when the base game of GW2 gets a real healing class added starting at level 1 will I as a player ever consider GW2 a trinity MMO.

You dont understand what trinity MMO is.
All people saying “a healing class” or “a tanking class” are wrong.
I will repeat myself for the third time …
If GW2 would finally became a true trinity MMO, it wouldnt a healing class, but nine. And nine tanking classes. And nine power damage classes. And nine condi classes.

Why all anti-trinity people seems to assume that a trinity MMO = 1 tanking class, 1 healing class, and the rest being damage dealer classes ?
PLEASE EXPLAIN ME

Look at other modern mmos, at least the half of classes and tank or/and heal. And GW2 would be the perfect MMO, besides ESO, where all classes could be tank, DD and healer, depending on the chosen trait line.