Guild Wars 2

Its Nerfing Time.1495:

Rev’s are great, they can provide team wide buffs, tank, support, DPS straight or Condi. They’re a pretty versatile class and are just as good as Guardians (I mained Guardian pre-HoT, have not looked back since), so don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.

They take some getting used to with cooldown and energy mechanics (which should really be an either / or) but are pretty kitten rewarding when mastered.

Having played every single class and made multiple builds for each one (bar Chronomancer, can’t seem to find one I’m happy with), Rev will always be my go-to.

I second this, I love my ventari/glint rev!

Crusader/Zealot + Roiling mist for the win!

very good video and build. I will be giving this a try as my ventari rev is my new favorite class. I have yet to try it in PvP though.

I want to bring this post back to life. I just recently discovered ventari herald and I am loving it. However, it is difficult to main as a healer when I can’t quickly watch whats going on in the fight and my allies healthbars at the same time.

It is so hard to tell who is hurting and where they are.

http://metabattle.com/wiki/MetaBattle_Wiki

It is definitely out of meta, which is what I like about it most. Seeing people play builds that they like, that fit there own personal play style and they take ownership over there own success.

I forget where in the video it is but I especially like how you are able to use Permeating wrath with a hammer to nullify that necros minions which removed his “Protection” buff making it easier for you to finish him.

Awesome build and videos. I have been wanting to see a celestial guard in WvW actually perform. I might take mine off the shelf after seeing this.

Junkpile.7439:

If everybody use dire like you say why don’t you use some rampager viper combo or something and destroy them? Power dmg > vitality.

I want to quickly comment on your response here. I was out in WvW one late night as D/D condi thief and I do believe I ran into a full Viper warrior.

This guy was absolutely intense. He couldn’t kill me but I couldn’t kill him either because he hit like a train and left a stack of conditions on me that was all I could do to stay alive.

Turk.5460:

Azukas.1426:

Actually it’s not acceptable. With how MM works you can be paired with plat and leg players while in silver league. So if you are silver league on your main class what do you think you are on a thief if you are practicing it? That’s not fair to the 4 other ppl on your team that you are making carry your dead weight.

Ranked season play is where you play to win. Playing a class that requires so much skill just to practice it in those games is NOT trying to win. It’s almost to the point that I’d support players unable to play the class without at least 2k hrs on thief

Actually, it is acceptable. If Anet didn’t think it was, there would be means to prevent that, such as needing a certain amount of unranked games played as that profession. But until something changes, you personally disagreeing, does not make it unacceptable. What is unacceptable is players like yourself who throw salt at the poor learning player, which discourages them, hurts your team more, and will lower the pool of players to make matches with.

100% agreed

skopek.1045:

I know how do you fell… I also main thief (daredevil) and something happened to me some time ago: I once did the daily monument capture and got ambushed by a group of three people so what would you do? Of course I ran away and they PMed me later to quit playing this game and telling me they will report me for being bad and a coward…Do not stop playing thief if you like him only because of people, this is your game and your fun! Although If you do not want to experience this you have several options:

1) You can quit this game (dont!!!!!!! it is aweosme :-))) ) and start playing something else, but people will always be people and this same thing will happen somewhere else or
2) Play (and this is what I recommend) with your friends or guildies only. I play only with my friends who I know from real life or with my fellow guildies and we always have a fun time ;-).
3) Play PvE only alone without anyone…

Hope you’ll feel better with your thief :-). Have fun!

This is the part I love most about thieves. It obviously bothered those players that you got away. This is when I take my super annoying D/D TB build and annoy the ever living kitten out of those 3 players until they either screw up and chase me and I pick one off at a time or they just leave even more mad they couldn’t kill me.’

The lamenting is music to my ears, cancer and all!

Orpheal.8263:

I could see a system where classes were limited to 1 type of damage condition which would make them unique to class type

I am in no way trying to say every class needs a guardian style mechanic.

What the hell was then this what you have written before? Your kind of inner schizophrene twin in you who has written the completely opposite of what you say now??

Because what you have written first EXACTLY would mean that you want to turn all classes into guardian style mechanic carbon copies which having all unique limited to 1 damaging conditions!!!
You even listed up 4 examples from the current 5 existing damage conditions and if you just would be able to add 1+1, then you suggestion automatically would mean, that Anet would have to implement for your suggestion for each class having a unique damaging condition 4 conditions more. Now what is please nonsense?
Your stuff is complete nuts, because you literally suggest to balance conditions to remove build diversity from 8 out of 9 classes and turn them into guardian style classes and add 4 more obsolete new damage conditions??

Sorry, I don’t need you to make fun of me. You make yourself look like a fool already, thats good enough of a laugh for today for me.

Albeit a condition damage rework would be needed to make those single damage conditions more powerful

Conditions don’t need to become even more powerful!! Are you totally nuts???
If there is anythign needed in regard of Condition Damage, then a proper way of mitigating it and reducing the incoming damage aspect from them by either limiting the amount of Stacks for PvP/WvW, or by giving the Game through the rework of the Attribute System a way for Character progression with that players can do something so that their characters become through the help of the reworked Attribute Effects more resistent for Condition Damage &/or their Durations.
In regard of this is a rework of the Resistance Boon neccessary, or it could be basically be removed completely then as it was from begin on just a very bad bandaid solution that Anet added.

If you want to reduce “single class condition bombing” as you say, then you would focus yourself not on the damaging conditions, because no class has huge access to like all damage conditions – classes are designed around 1 to 3 damage conditions maximum from Weapon(s) unless created to “random parameters” with each condition beign differently easy on access to them.
Take the Mesmer for example.

By Design access to all conditions, but its always random either, or by design focused on confusion or torment, very rarely on burning.
Yes, its traits increase it with more focus onto Bleeding. But you go then also for a serious Condition Build if you use those Traits and lack therefore in the Direct Power

If we would turn now like you want it the Mesmer into a single condition machine, thats focused like the guardian only onto 1 damage condition – Confusion, playing the mesmer would become alot more boring, and predictable, if you know as player, that the only harmful condition they could deal against you would be now suddenly just only confusion and it could be removed much quicker now, because theres now suddenly also alot lesser cover conditions that deal damage also as well and keep the significant damaging condition(s)from being removed too quickly.

Before you even talk about big boys, please change first your full diapers, because they stink already from the big load you fabricated here.
If you want just a dumbed down game for babies, please go play Tetris, as this seems to be more the game for the likes of you.

What comes next?
Reduce all Weapons for all Classes to just only 1, because its unfair, that some classes can have only 1 Weapon, while others two? /sarcasm

This post just went full blown short bus, white helmet kittened…

OP sorry bro, I know what you were trying to accomplish with your original thought and we were going in a good direction with ideas and options for grown folks to talk about and consider.

Back in the day we used to call that brainstorming…

Unfortunately this diaper baby joined the conversation ruined the brainstorming session.

Devs you can close this thread now it no longer carries any merit or insight.

babazhook.6805:

Very much like the old farmers adage that if you want to guarantee a low price for wheat , wheat should be at a high price, if you want to see less dire, have more people use condition builds simply because if a condition build is facing a condition build, the added toughness does little good.

My own observations are that there still mnore power users then condition and on my own power builds I am still able to kill persons in dire as there plenty of damage potential available. Added to that DIRE and TB use is a response to that power and not a response to condition builds.

The conclusions I can make.

Dire and TB use if in fact increasing is in response to Power builds.
Power builds can still generate plenty of damage in order to take out dire and TB users.
As the number of condition users in dire and TB goes UP, the effectivness of dire and TB drops.

If Condition faces condition the person who has some stat in their build other then toughness (healing as example) will have more sustain. If on a power build facing a higher number of condition builds, the proper response is to take more cleanses and vitality.

Dire and TB is not an issue. The presence of a given armor type is a RESPONSE to the presence of a given damage type.If everyone went condition with dire/tb tomorrow then in order to gain an edge when facing one another they will look to dropping toughness for that edge which will help power users.

The very presence of Dire, and that people claim the numbers growing (Not my own observation by the way) is evidence that Condition builds are not meta.

This is a fantastic response. It 100% defines why I built my thief full trailblazer. I couldn’t stand getting 3 shot by berserker builds.

Nobody seems to complain about 3500 power signet thieves walking through your health bar like a boss. but they can cry all day if there metabattle raid build gets countered.

I really don’t care what tier I am in since I main thief, I just log in and have fun wrecking angry at the world kids.

hate tells from alternate accounts are music to my ears.

Orpheal.8263:

Ya, go shop into the mall and don’t waste your time here anymore here with carefree ideas that would ruin the game only.
That would be only better for the game and everyone of us, that would like actually to KEEP build diversity and not throw it like you just out of the window as like an omg girlfriend who just acts prematurely and doesn’t think things over first before doing something – that among the thrown out things could have been potentially also something very important you wanted to keep with the all the stuff thats now lieing scrapped on the streets.

At least by reducing the amount of conditions and reworking their effects through merges and giving them as likes Boons as well Dual Effects, would make Boons and Conditions more impactful for the game#s combat system, while keeping at least also some build diversity and making classes not boring and predictable for doing all the time only one and the same damaging condition.

By reducing the total amount of combat effects, this would also drastically reduce the condition spam in this game, and it would improve also at the same time the game performance (lesser lags)
I surely don’t shut up, only because you say so.. how naive (and out of arguments) are you???

Also reducing Conditions/Boons and making them more effectful wouldn’t require by far as much complete Skill/Trait and Upgrade reworks, as like your proposal of turning 8 of 9 classes into boring 1 sided condition spammers, what makes also out of the context no sense at all, because the game also doesn’t provide 9 different damage conditions.
To realize your bad suggestion would even require first to increase the game with even more obsolete conditions, just so that each class could have its own unique damaging condition, as you were even only able to give 4 out of 9 classes a unique damaging condition as there exist so far only 5 damaging conditions and the game needs maximum only 3.
1 Low Damage long Duration one (Poison)
1 High Damage Low Duration one (Burning)
1 Medium Damage Medium Duration one (Torment which I would merge into Cripple as it should hurt you logically while moving with crippled/broken legs as it should hurt you to fight with crippled/broken arms)

If this game needs one thing absolutely not, then its tons of more conditions!
It needs lesser of them as also lesser Boons.
The Effect Spam of this game has to get reduced, then will become Game Balance automatically with it also easier for ANet!

Theres a saying with “Too many cooks spoil the broth”
The very same it is with Effects of any sort (Conditions/Boons/Passives from Traits/Upgrades) in a MMORPG “Too many effects spoil the Game Balance”.

I honestly have no idea how to respond to this nonsense. You’re original post sounded like a 13 year old valley girl so I made fun of you.

The OP wanted to discuss options to help the current condition situation in WvW. My suggestion was to limit the different condition damage application types to 1 per class. My thief currently has access to 4 different damage conditions and by limiting them to 1 it would take care of 3 cover conditions thereby making it easier to cleanse.

However, this would not ruin the class as it doesn’t for a condition Guardian who has access to only 1 condition damage type. Albeit a condition damage rework would be needed to make those single damage conditions more powerful to keep condition builds competitive. I am in no way trying to say every class needs a guardian style mechanic.

The simple ides is to cut down on single classes condition bombing capabilities.

“It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it”.

-Aristotle

You missed the boat bro, let the big boys talk and go sit in your 2012 try hard corner.

I second this, full viper is very effective. I personally use scepter/dagger with Greatsword as offhand.

Orpheal.8263:

Siphon.8405:

I could see a system where classes were limited to 1 type of damage condition which would make them unique to class type. However, there would have to be a revamp on condition cleanse as it is currently way to easy to clear 1 type of condition damage.

An example of this would be like the Guardian that has only fire as a primary damage source. This would also prevent condition bombing with multiple damage types from 1 source.

Utility skills like thief traps would have to be revamped to do only the condition damage that is unique to there class.

Examples (this can be expounded on by others)

Necro: torment
Guardian: fire
Thief: poison
Mesmer: confusion

Just my opinion that would not be game breaking but take some serious thought, consideration and revamping on the part of the Devs.

Serious thought?? Are you serious?

I tell you seriously, your thoughts made here on this are not worth 5 pennies as you truly don’t have any clues about it, how much your “idea” here would totally destroy the whole game.
You think naively, only because the Guardian was designed mainly around Burning, that this simply has to work also for all other 8 classes??

Do you have even the slightest understanding about it, what for incredible consequences such a massive rework would mean to the whole game, if suddenly all classes would be designed like the Guardian and would be able from one moment to the next to deal suddenly only 1 single damage condition???

All classes would instantly turn boring as kitten, all classes would become totally predictable, would lose completely all over the place lots of their build diversity…

Seriously, this has to be the very worst idea Ive ever read in my whole time I play this game and am in this forum since 2012’s release day.

Also way too much skill and trait revamping for all of this, not to mention also Upgrades like Runes and Sigils, even if this stuff is also in a serious need of being rebalanced more.

Liiike OMG Girlfriend! NO HE DIDN"T! SERIOUSLY….!!!

LIKE the whole game BOOOM!!!

SHUUUTTUPPP i’m going to the mall now!

OriOri.8724:

Very interesting take on condis. I imagine that if cleanses were changed to remove X stacks of conditions instead of X conditions it could still be balanced (though it might take a few rounds of balancing to get the cleanses right). However, I would say to let each profession have 2-3 damaging condis instead of just 1, but have that be all they can apply (which would necessitate the complete removal/change of all sigils/rune effects that apply damaging condis). 2-3 allows for more diversity, while still allowing for conditions builds to be viable in all game modes. As it stands, confusion and torment are still pretty kitten weak in PvE 99% of the time, so limiting Necro and Mesmer like that wouldn’t be ideal. But if they focused primarily around torment/confusion, with smaller amounts of other damaging conditions, it could still be made to work in PvE without homogenizing the damaging conditions too much.

Neat idea overall!

Good idea input, the devs could also rework weaker damage conditions so they all have equal impact in all game modes. Kind of how fire does SO much damage but its a single condition.

I could see a system where classes were limited to 1 type of damage condition which would make them unique to class type. However, there would have to be a revamp on condition cleanse as it is currently way to easy to clear 1 type of condition damage.

An example of this would be like the Guardian that has only fire as a primary damage source. This would also prevent condition bombing with multiple damage types from 1 source.

Utility skills like thief traps would have to be revamped to do only the condition damage that is unique to there class.

Examples (this can be expounded on by others)

Necro: torment
Guardian: fire
Thief: poison
Mesmer: confusion

Just my opinion that would not be game breaking but take some serious thought, consideration and revamping on the part of the Devs.

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

Ive actually been using a special build very recently and I see 11k backstabs and 15k heartseekers if certain conditions are met (ie i have 90% or more HP).

If something has 3k+ armor, thats a bit trickier to kill quickly as by the time I get them to 25% HP, they know how to dodge me and engage…not always successful but they do.

It’s really not hard to make a build like the one your talking about. Most players in WvW are PvE zerker builds, they are literally walking around in Paper Mache armor.
It’s literally like hitting a naked target and they come onto the forums crying all the time thief is OP.

If they say I am getting killed that fast with 3k+ armor, then your doing something wrong…

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAsaVl8MhGnYhTw0Jw/EL+EmXTYJEF2CAvmz0cAMB+AB-TFCEABtpP4hDBgBnAACeAAAcEAYa/R53WKBTU9HSBM2YA-w

Signet Thief. Old build, been around for a long time. The thief has to invest 100% of his utility to take down 1 target and is also very squishy. Completely useless in any other form of WvW.

There are other variations with strength runes which extend the duration of might etc. It’s just an example of how your getting hit so hard so fast, 250% crit damage on opening hit, massive damage bump from signet burn etc.

I am new to the raiding scene and looking for a training raid guild.

I have a fully geared zealot/magi druid and a viper necro available for raids.

Famine.7915:

I make them go every time they try to kill me. <3

+1. This person understands how to play there class well and counter play.

Cygnus.6903:

Siphon.8405:

Straegen.2938:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Stealth is fine when you are forced to reveal yourself to actually kill your opponent. This ghost thief build is 100% stealth and can still kill you. That’s absurdly broken.

I disagree. A 3s window to kill an attacker with a host of evades and teleports before they go back into stealth for long periods of time is not a well balanced mechanic. Stealth stacking should be removed. At least then stealth builds would have to “come up for air” every few seconds allowing some counter play. It also eliminates the Ghost Thief.

FYI A visible ghost thief is in trouble because they have to burn there only 2 dodges to generate caltrops and they don’t have room on there utility bar for teleports (traps are in that place)

A ghost thief literally has to burn his steal, both dodge rolls, and all his utility to take a target down. If this damage is cleansed or stun break is used then the trapper looses the kill entirely and the target runs away.

So in short conclusion a trapper thief has to burn his entire repertoire of utlity and dodge rolls, and steal to take down 1 target, how is that OP?

If he kills an entire group of players that refused to bring heal/cleanse support then you all deserve to die.

It’s WORLD vs WORLD vs WORLD not 5v5 sPvP. It’s not fair and it’s not an even matched game mode, it’s survival of the fittest.

BRING A BIGGER ARMY!

You need to watch Hollow Man.

I don’t need to watch anyone play thief, I main thief. I understand the mechanics completely and play trapper thief when I get bored of my D/D build at times.

A class that has nothing else going for it than single target kills and stealth does not need to be nerfed.

Thieves bring absolutely nothing to group mechanics via heals or support

It has been said by many other thief players that it would take a complete rework of the thief class to fix it because if you nerf there ability to stealth they have little build options and there to squishy to be competitive.

It’s a double edged sword, take stealth away now there just a trash class with no group support skills or healing abilities to make up for what you take away.

babazhook.6805:

Straegen.2938:

babazhook.6805:

Removal of stealth stacking lowers the Thiefs overall condition cleanses , heals , initiative gains , movement ability and damage mitigation all of which are enhanced the longer one stays in stealth. SE just as example would take a significant hit in Condition cleanse potential.

We aren’t talking about removing stealth or the many ways a thief can access it. Instead players would have to “come up for air” more frequently allowing for more counter play.

The ability to attack a player from stealth and then disappear 3s later for an undetermined amount of time is a balancing nightmare. Removing the ability to disappear for ridiculously long periods of time without being visible and with no counter play is sensible. This includes other classes as well.

Be that as it may it a fact that many of the benefits of the SA line increase the longer one stays in stealth. If people are “forced to come up for air” then there will be less healing, ini gain and condition cleanses if one uses SA for those things.

Given A person can evade/dodge just as example and gain ini from the same via upper hand or healing and condition cleanse from an EA or Driven Fortitude , it very much like increasing the duration of a cleanse off ea to 5 seconds or putting an ICD on Fortitude and upper hand of the same.

Less time in stealth means LESS of those things even as there no decrease to the cleanses one gets from EA or the INI from upper hand meaning the SA line becomes less competitive.

I understand what you are trying to do but it can not happen in a vacuum. If stealth stacking removed those traits In the SA line that I speak off will need to be made better.

That’s actually a well put argument. I never thought of it that way! +1

Hitman.5829:

I had enough of dying to the OP thief, so I made one. As soon as I got in WvW I owned a ranger, then an engineer, a warrior and a thief. I swear I have 0 experience with thief.

However, i still have the mentality of running when outnumbered and I often die when fighting more than 2 players. I guess I will get use to it.

By the way, the staff and evades need a huge nerf. It is ridiculous that a new player like me can spam evades and dodges and still deal a huge damage without any risks.

If this is true it only exemplifies what I always say about thief…

Thief is an Apex Predator in WvW. The class design is completely surrounded around solo play. They have little to no support skills, group heals etc.

Congratulations you have figured out why people play thief, because they can single target gank people and win.

That is the ONLY thing they are good at, good luck finding a spot in a raid, fractal group (if there is already a thief in the group) or a “good spot” with a healer and support in a WvW party. I dont join commanders because i get thrown into the “we need numbers so thieves go here section”

Straegen.2938:

The Game Slayer.7632:

Stealth is fine when you are forced to reveal yourself to actually kill your opponent. This ghost thief build is 100% stealth and can still kill you. That’s absurdly broken.

I disagree. A 3s window to kill an attacker with a host of evades and teleports before they go back into stealth for long periods of time is not a well balanced mechanic. Stealth stacking should be removed. At least then stealth builds would have to “come up for air” every few seconds allowing some counter play. It also eliminates the Ghost Thief.

FYI A visible ghost thief is in trouble because they have to burn there only 2 dodges to generate caltrops and they don’t have room on there utility bar for teleports (traps are in that place)

A ghost thief literally has to burn his steal, both dodge rolls, and all his utility to take a target down. If this damage is cleansed or stun break is used then the trapper looses the kill entirely and the target runs away.

So in short conclusion a trapper thief has to burn his entire repertoire of utlity and dodge rolls, and steal to take down 1 target, how is that OP?

If he kills an entire group of players that refused to bring heal/cleanse support then you all deserve to die.

It’s WORLD vs WORLD vs WORLD not 5v5 sPvP. It’s not fair and it’s not an even matched game mode, it’s survival of the fittest.

BRING A BIGGER ARMY!

DeceiverX.8361:

Blades Of Fatalis.1279:

OriOri.8724:

Blades Of Fatalis.1279:

Simonoly.4352:

Blades Of Fatalis.1279:

admittedly this is pre patch but… If only this guy had had a light field, maybe then he would of been saved: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmfp92Y_UtU&feature=youtu.be

Oh my. Those few times where the stars align and Mistrust goes absolutely mad…

pretty much. its easiest to do actually when theres more people around, more rupts=more confusion. its a great build for yolos but…. its very easily killable and stab does a lot of negative things to builds running mistrust.
however. when it works it works well.

Which, if you think about it, is great balance for the trait and builds that rely on it. It has a clear counter through stab, but if it isn’t countered it can be absolutely devastating. However, that is tempered by the fact that the build itself is relatively easy to kill if you focus it down.

pretty much. The power of the trait is very strong, but honestly i don’t think it needs to be nerfed because as you said its balanced through other methods, being very easy to counter and through the fact that if you trait down that line you lose almost all sources of sustain. The build works very well in decently skilled hands, especially against idiots, but it faulters very quickly against people who know what there doing.

I don’t really think basing any build to be balanced based on a limited-access boon is a good idea.

Basically the same argument as ghost thief being totally fine because people can reveal it. Although even the ghost thief really doesn’t have amazing kill pressure. It’s more or less just a PITA that gets people only when they literally run no bonus health and zero cleanses at all anywhere in their kits.

It may be “balanced” because sometimes it gets shut down, but the game really shouldn’t be Build Wars.

But that’s just me.

IKR. It’s just downright crazy talk to plan out your build and have a strategy!!!

Stinking strategists!

Those stinking strategists can’t out plan my metabattle build, IT’S ON METABATTLE!!!!

Byakku.9187:

Hey there, figured I’d be in a position to contribute to this discussion.

Siphon.8405:

[…] Staff/Staff with sigils of endurance
Runes are adventurer for 100% daredevil stamina heal with channeled vigor. […]

Truth be told, I wasn’t using Adventurer at the time. I was on a test run with Runes of the Earth to find out whether or not I truly need the extra endurance; same goes for the daredevil heal which is usually too risky to take in fights involving multiple competent enemies since random/targeted rupts can pretty much kill you instantly.

Here’s a video (along with UTTERLY terrible music added in a feeble attempt at replacing the original file’s audio with something even more cringeworthy, you HAVE been warned) of how this usually goes (and ends): https://youtu.be/vlIXP81Hx9Y?t=1m15s

Also, the OP might want to remove any references to account names from his post, else this thread will soon be deleted.

I knew i could bait you into telling me your build so I can try it out! Thanks

I LOVE this build. So much lulz fun! I am in the process of crafting it right now, any tips on runes? You are right though that music makes me want to go choke a clown!

This build should be labeled the “Gingerbread man”!

I wont go into great detail as to how he is doing this but he is not cheating.

Actually his entire build is built around endurance regen, endurance heal and evades.
It’s not overly hard to make this build. it completely designed around trolling. This is why you see him using his heal and signet to regenerate his endurance because he is utilizing so many evades his vigor can’t keep up.

Sorry OP but your “actual” footage is just another example of PvE players coming into WvW and bashing other players for loosing to what they do not understand how to effectively play against.

I will put this into the “OMG CONDI IS OP” and “OMG THIEF IS OP/CHEATER” category.

P.S.

I came back to edit this. I will give you a hint to figure out how hes doing this…

Staff/Staff with sigils of endurance
Runes are adventurer for 100% daredevil stamina heal with channeled vigor.
Specs are daredevil, trickery, acrobatics. (you can see his buffs in the video)

OriOri.8724:

I agree, all elite specs do need to be nerfed. Does that change the fact that being able to disengage at will and be out of reach for most classes on top of having an overly high amount of dodges and evades when you do stay for a fight is broken?

And I don’t know how you think mesmer can catch up with thief. They can triple blink once every 75 seconds as a chrono, yet a lot of mesmers are just plain bad and can’t pull that off. Aside from that its 1 blink every 30 seconds, plus about-face + phase retreat. But again a lot of mesmers are not very good and can’t figure that combination out. And even if they could its not enough to keep up with a thief that wants to get away.

You are absolutely right. Thieves are FANTASTIC at single target burst damage and running away!

Can they supply meaningful heals/support to there party? NO
Can they provide boons for there party? NO
Do they get invited to raids and fractals? NO (as a matter of fact I got kicked out of a fractal upon joining because there team already had a thief)
Do people want more than 1 thief in sPvP groups? NO

So lets nerf the 1 thing they are good at, ganking…

apharma.3741:

Turk.5460:

If you’re dying to a Thief in WvW 1v1, and you believe yourself a skilled player, then your build and/or gear is not suited for 1v1. The only thing that a thief currently is suited to kill 1v1 on equal footing (both gear and 1v1 built), is another thief. Everything else is due to a PEBKAC.

Lol, you’re just bad at thief then, thief (DP at least) will eat revs alive, necro, power mes, any form of power ele and can have a good chance against non eternal champion warriors. Before you come back with “play thief if you think it’s good” I do and have played thief in WvW, I just find it an abysmally boring class.

Not sure how it raids against druids after the CA cool down increase, I’m sure deceiver would be able to enlighten us on how that goes.

You’re a liar and you smell bad!

You know you love 3 shotting healers on the back line of a zerg and getting away with it! Only 2 minutes later getting hate tells from that players alternate account.

Quit telling stories sir!

Wondrouswall.7169:

Seems like a standard Zealot Druid healer to me, except the concentration sigil. The base 35% boon duration (Nature Magic + Monk Runes) has only a slight gap in protection uptime and there is usually plenty of might/fury/swiftness in (proper group) raids.

Use Delicious Rice Balls for +100 healing AND +10% outgoing healing rather than the food you have slotted. That is, unless, you really need the +5% karma boost.

As a side note, even though GW2Skills build editor does not show an increased boon duration stat when Nature Magic is slotted, the boon durations on the icons, weapon skills, and utilities are updated (might have to give it a few seconds if the stat changes).

For pets, Tiger for additional group fury and as one of the highest DPS pets. The second pet can be whatever the group or encounter requires. If the group is pretty solid on all bases, then take a Bristleback or Lynx as your second.

thanks for the advice. I figured it has been done before. I will also use it in WvW karma trains which is why i threw the concentration sigil on the horn. Can’t hurt I have 2 sitting in my bank.

Because of quickdraw i can double tap call of the wild for over a minute of boons if needed.

EremiteAngel.9765:

WvW has over time, produced a group of scourge. Roamers who run around in gangs, preying upon stragglers and lost souls.

+1 sir! This is my favorite part of wvw

Build: http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNBmYD7keVomVskVwXFgoFswIYMhrvVAwZ0V6iBwR1qaWF-TFyGQBTS9nKp8bI7PIRlg97gAAgLAA5eCARS3ApAcaLA-w

Some highlights I think are..

2461 power
56% crit chance
1236 healing power (if change food would be 1136
+40% outgoing healing
+68% boon duration (could get 88% with different food)
100% uptime on fury, regen, might, swiftness (if the build editor showed the missing 53% boon duration)

I am curious as to what the community thinks, would this make a good healer for raids or even fractals and help with damage as well? I have it setup with cheap food but I can certainly change if needed.

Also, not sure on pets…

Thanks for the input.

EremiteAngel.9765:

I’ve played DH for a while now and have had some really hard fights that I felt was impossible or highly difficult to win against.

But before I post on what I felt were hardcounter matchups to me, I wanted to know from other more experienced roamers on what are the real hardcounters to DH currently.

I play power medi trapper. Just want to know your thoughts on what classes and builds hardcounters this. So I can know if it is because I’m not skilled enough or that my build is just at a bad disadvantage to win against a particular class and build.

Thanks!

I think by roaming you are talking about solo or small group in WvW. I will tell you as a mainly solo roamer (thief) that DH is one of the unique classes that does not have a real “hard” counter.

However, keep in mind that its not the class that makes the player, it’s the player that makes the class. What a large majority of the WvW player base does not realize is that you will encounter classes that normally wouldn’t kill your build but end up killing you instead because the player behind it is flat out better than you. People dont want to admit that but it’s just the cold hard fact

I would suggest that you experiment with builds, ideas and things that NOT everyone else does. Take a build that you like and improve on it. This does cost gold so be prepared to spend some cash. Lets put it this way, I have spent hundreds of gold on “experimental” builds.

For example I’ll drop 40 gold on a sigil of concentration just to test its validity in my build. If it works, I stick with it. Also, try the cheap versions of the build first with exotic gear so you can salvage expensive things with black lions salvage kits.

For example if you want a condition build get a set of dire gear first in exotics from the TP and craft the rest before investing in a set of trailblazer. They perform nearly the same.

Let me give you one last example, my build is NOT meta at all. As a matter of fact I can’t find my thief build on any forum. It is highly effective and because I have a very high win to death ratio I am beginning to see more and more thieves taking a similar role in WvW.

Lastly, just take a build that you like, get out there and spend time getting stomped on. Realize your mistakes, make corrections and go get stomped again. You will spend many hours dying. Push the build to the limits, take on entire groups of players 1v5 to see your limitations. I do it all the time to push my limitations and see what build types I can take on and how many.

This is kinda long but hope it helps. If not shrug

BlaqueFyre.5678:

When will people learn every class has things broken about them? Every last one of them, has brain dead concepts baked into them mainly due to HoT. Look at every class they have multiple things that carry them through Passive Defenses, Passive CCs, Passive Sustain, to ridiculous amounts of CC , the ridiculous amounts of Invulnerabilities and the ridiculous amount of Offensive and Defensive skills.

It’s funny when people try to claim one thing is OP when everything needs a huge nerf, every class can spec to be unkillable, or to do ridiculous amounts of burst it’s not just one or two classes it is literally every class, if you think otherwise you must not know much about the game or classes.

So until every class receives the Nerf hammer nothing should be touched balance wise since there is a pseudo balance currently.

Things that need to be toned down across the board:

• Remove or severely nerf the damage on skills that provide a defensive effect.
• Stop all classes from atatcking while Invulnerable.
• Remove all Braindead passive Defenses.
• Remove all Braindead Passive CCs.
• Tone down Burst.
• Tone down the Sustain, both Active and Passive.
• Tone down Certain conditions in PvP and WvW environments Confusion and Torment by removing the passive ticks.
• Bring back class concepts and balance classes around those concepts, classes shouldn’t be able to do everything or have access to everything, more class Unique separation.
• Make Stat investment more meaningful nerf all classes baseline heals, defenses and damage.
• Require multiple stats for building offensive Burst for both Power and Condi.
• remove Braindead Passive Traits and Skills.

And a few things to note to this thread, if a Thief or Mesmer disengages and resets a fight guess what that means you are no longer in combat as well and are effectively resetting as well… mind blown right?

Classes with Burst builds like Thief and Mesmer have to put a lot into the Burst either in blowing multiple CDs or through positioning for most of the Burst.

And it’s a laughable joke that players think Steal is OP let’s see here to make it worth while it takes 3 whole traitlines, and 5 traits to make it what it is, no other Class mechanic in game requires that kind of investment, he’ll most classes get multiple skills for their class mechanics, all of which have separate CDs and do a multitude of effects from damage to CC to healing to invulnerabilities you name it.

Again right now unless they nerf every class and strip all the broken aspects they should leave balance alone since every class has a counter, every class has weaknesses, every class has a role, every class is viable in WvW.

And last but not least these classes don’t have ridiculous healing Sustain or braindead passives carrying most of them, they rely on almost exclusive Active skill use for Sustain and mitigation so crying about stealth which doesn’t stop damage and can be revealed by a multitude of classes and skills either reactively or proactively, while other classes can run around invulnerable that can’t be removed… kinda hypocritical.

I like your points…

I would like to add as well that most people forget that thief was designed to be a DUELIST. It is the very reason that they are quickly replaced in PvE/Raids/Fractals and ohh god hear the outcries if you have 2 thieves in sPvP. Double any other class in sPvP and nobody says a word….

I would add as well that in WvW nobody readily accepts thieves into there blob groups and if they do its only because it is off hours and they need more bodies for the fire. Not because thieves have anything valuable to add to the group via heals/boons.

Many classes by design are intended for strong group play and are really good at it. The thief is not

People seem to not want to accept that there build is being countered in WvW. Thieves by design are Alpha Predators in WvW. It is where they shine, capturing camps, cutting off small groups, harassing enemies. ASSASSINS if you will ROAMING is what the thief is best at…

babazhook.6805:

Zenith.7301:

Most of the thieves are power spec anyways and they can kill a revenant within the duration of basilisk and a knockdown.

Assuming they don’t headshot you to death because somebody at anet thought that making headshot spammable while shifting most of the damage to autoattacks and said interrupts doing 3k+ damage is anywhere close to balanced.

At least a mesmer you can catch and finish.

Thief just resets all day every day. It’s impossible for a thief to die if he doesn’t want to.

But somehow Phase Traversal and Ride the Lightning needed nerfs.

The entirety of WvW roaming is swarmed with thieves because the class can’t be punished for mistakes. Those teleports and 6+ dodges on top of stealth make sure of that.

Hyperbole does not an argument make. WvW is not “swarmed with thieves”. I see as many if not more warriors and rangers dragonhunters and mesmers. The most underepresented class is likely the Engineer. The rest are there with the numbers.

Totally true. I roam on my thief all the time, however, the most dreaded class to fight against is a really good warrior.

I have to say i encountered a really unique warrior the other day. I am very convinced he was running full Viper, because he could hit really hard but made it a ponit to deal condi damage through mace/shield and other stuns like headbutt.

Very very strong, I simply had to run because after slapped 50% of my health off me I was left with several conditions still to deal with.

Wow was he unstoppable.

gebrechen.5643:

And while at it, tone down damage from power builds?

+1

Impulsive.8240:

You reminded me of a necro who was sitting on a mortar shot to stack burning and then transferring them to someone else, lo and behold, you’re dead!

Similarly with other transferable condis that those necros use all the time, especially against a rev on the enemy. At a certain point, I literally got all possible condis on my rev during a blob vs blob fight.

I think a proper adjustment towards the maximum number of stacks needs to be implemented if the duration and damage cap will not be changed. Otherwise you will see more people just doing that mindless play with stacking 24 bleeds or 17 burning from a guard and you will drop dead in a second.

I have a question for you sir.

If you’re idea is to nerf condition based damage do you also have ideas on how to nerf Power based damage?

The reason I say this is you full well know as soon as you limit the amount of damage a condition based player can produce, NOBODY will play it. EVERYONE will play power builds…

I ask this because I for one can stack 20 stacks of bleed on someone if they don’t clear it on my condition thief.

JonnyForgotten.4276:

I would hate to see an amulet system in WvW. The whole point of it to me is to be able to go and fight other players in a full gear, crazy open build environment. Amulets would destroy that. Also, exotic is generally fine if you can’t get ascended, so I don’t see the problem

+1 sir

Kaiser.9873:

All of your points are reasonable, but tbh if I wanted an amulet system I would play sPvP.

I 100% agree with you. I now only PvP to farm ascended gear then I go back to WvW because I HATE the amulet system.

sPvP amulet system is an extremely boring, scripted, no brain, lackluster stand on the point AoE spam fest.

DO NOT take away build diversity in WvW, it is one of the main concepts that makes it fun for many players.

Just my 2 cents…

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

No. Get better. That’s the answer.

As simple as this is, it’s so true.

The difference between a well played class with proper gear, specializations, rune, sigils, and utlities with cleanses makes conditions almost impossible to stick.

I feel like PvE players come into WvW with the same build they raid with, get wrecked by a condi player and scream OP because there’s just no way that guy just killed my invincible META build.

Zero Day.2594:

See, in the 2 years that you quit, you could have ….
wait for it…
wait for it…
LEARNED TO PLAY.

But instead you choose to quit since you don’t have the nerve to deal with the issue yourself (ei. git’ing gud).

And after 2 years, you come back to make a kitten post expecting what?

Here, let me hold your hand, and tell you that the devs are looking into it. Or tell you stories about how Thief isn’t OP but class X is…

Honestly, not sure what you want out of your own post.

---

:/ I was so let down that he’s not asking for a nerf, just crying.

claps well said. +1 sir

Yuffi.2430:

One of the big things that already makes WvW great is the ability to use different builds and mix and match stuff in a way that the sPvP amulet system does not allow. The fact that many players choose to follow a metabuild should not be used to penalise those of us who don’t. I would really hate to lose the flexibility and think WvW would be worse for such a change.

Also “Guild Wars” in GW2 refers to the historical story element not intended wars between player guilds.

Very well said! +1 sir

Electra.7530:

To the condition crybaby: Vitality is counter to condi along with condi clear and health regen.

Toughness is counter to power along with health regen.

Build accordingly and quit calling for NERF NERF NERF.

+1 to you as well sir!

Simonoly.4352:

I just use condition cleanse utilities, condition cleanse traits, cleansing sigils and dodge the attacks that apply conditions.

FINALLY someone that actually knows how to play WvW. +1 sir

Straegen.2938:

Jeknar.6184:

Marauder and Commander armor also have 10% more stats than 3-stat gear, but people don’t come crying on the forum about them, only about the condition ones.

They should. Marauder has almost completely replaced zerker for most players “in the know”. Why run Zerk when you can deal almost the same DPS with several K more health?

I agree with this. I also feel that because people are so dependent on websites like metabattle for there build ideas they don’t have a creative bone in there body.

(The following isn’t directed towards you just a general thought)

It seems to me that a whole lot of crying on these forums is due to someone not able to accept the fact that they got out played in WvW. They refuse to believe that there build/gear is beatable because it works so well in pvp/pve so they cry NERF NERF NERF.

Adapt, become better, examine fights before you go into them (unless being ganked). Also, realize that not all classes are solo roamers/killers. Some are better than others because they lack group cohesion/tactics so they excel being alone.

Example just to name a few fantastic solo roamers are thieves/mesmers/warriors

On the other hand they lack much group role that can be filled by other classes much better.

Example just to name a few are druids, elementalists, guardians.

Of course these few classes CAN be played however you want but players should realize that they may get out played by the classes that have access to stealth, high mobility, or never ending health regen.

I guess what i’m saying is to learn what classes are best suited for certain things and what suits your wants as a player. If you want to be the best group support, look at classes that excel at that. Same thing when comes to solo roaming, look at the classes that are rewarding in that play style.

Just because you can’t beat them doesn’t mean others can’t or that there gear/specs is OP or needs a NERF. EVERYTHING can be countered in this game, no one class is 100% dominant in every situation.

It’s almost like saying because a warrior can TRASH anyone who stays within there great sword swing that we should nerf warriors great sword. Instead of saying, get your sorry kitten out of his cleave when he swings or you go SPLAT

That is a player tactic, not a need for a nerf.

Sorry for the wall of text.

Jeknar.6184:

Siphon.8405:

My armor in particular can not be changed in the forge as it was acquired through pvp.

Is that for real? I thought all ascended armor/weapons (no trinkets) could have their stats changed in the forge.

100% true and working as intended. According to the response that I got from an admin from a ticket that I submitted, all ascended weapons/armor obtained through PvP can not be changed in the forge.

If you want to test this go to the forge with a cheap insignia and try to change something, the option will not even populate in the forge GUI

I for one play a condi p/d thief in trailblazer and am quite satisfied with the current system. There aren’t many options for players who enjoy playing tanky versions of classes. However, a large majority of the players out there run power/crit/ferocity builds and hit like trains.

Power gear is designed for direct instant gratification style damage that can not be cleansed.

Condition gear is designed for debuffing and DoT style damage that CAN be cleansed.

Another issue I see is that if they were to nerf the gear that we spent so much time building, who is going to give us the gear in return to change our investment? My armor in particular can not be changed in the forge as it was acquired through pvp.

Forgive me for saying but I feel that 90% of these type of forum posts come from people that are ill equipped to deal with WvW combat through bad specialization choices, runes, sigils, utility cleanses. For instance I have went toe to toe with condi memsers and destroyed them due simply to them being outplayed. However, I have ran into equally skilled condi memsers and gotten my kitten handed to me on a silver platter and laughed at.

Reason? I was ill prepared to deal with that player and got over confident in my normal rotation. I did not adapt to the fight.

I guess I am saying that I am against nerfing the the gear and instead educating players on how to WvW. That does go against others opinion shrug

I like the way this thread is going. Awesome idea OP