Guild Wars 2

It’s so funny, people don’t even care about thinking if it will be viable or not. They’re just still too kittened off about never getting sword, everything else doesn’t matter.

WH will be very good in both team support, probably some of the best team support, especially with Heat sync alone not to mention everything else.

Think about this for a second, your guardian gives you 12 might , you already have about 13-15 might + vigor + fury + regeneration , you just heat synced 25 might on high duration to your whole team w/ vigor uptime , fury and regeneration not to mention other boons if you have them all in one weapon CD and this would go the same if you popped Armor Of Earth for AOE stab to your whole team. You still have 7 others for support and CC.

WH will be very good for teams , predicting a strong D/WH build for sure.

Ah I see, occurs with resistance. They’ll probably fix that bug but also silently nerf taunt all at the same time. Anet has a way of doing that.

Xillllix.3485:

Linnael.1069:

Raif.9507:

Because he’s right and the forums know he’s right.

On a more serious note, it would be nice to see someone who actually understands the class to show off the elite specs. Watching Grouch demolish Chieftain with ease was more impressive than the showing of anything else. Watching Karl get interrupted while overloading twice and nearly dying (500hp) was more embarrassing than anything else. That and Rubi’s comments of “That’s so devastating” and watching 4 hits of 400 per target was nothing more than a /facepalm moment.

This goes for the other stuff to, most of the devs who tried to show killing Svanir/Chieftain almost died themselves (they even joke about it on stream) and I think it would be better to show something like Grouch demolishing rather than Karl nearly dying.

Pretty much this. Watching some of the devs PvP makes me wonder what the hell is even going on.

I don’t know man but it wasn’t good publicity for the warhorn or the elite (which didn’t even get used because it’s so useless in a solo fight).

True, would have been better to get another player to test the team viability of it. It will be a nice weapon for teams for sure.. D/WH [tempest / water / air] maybe , I know burning is good but that could be nice for dmg / support but showing it in solo play was dumb, doesn’t highlight the usefulness of the weapon at all which is it’s entire point.

Mak.2657:

Don’t know about Kyra, but what win/loss ratio Supercutie had against toker on long streak?

They were usually 50/50 actually.. I didn’t keep count, but I’ve seen Toker lose alot and supcutie lose alot. I don’t really care actually though either way it doesn’t discount the fact thief had a big advantage over mesmer in both 1on1s and team fights, just alot more in team scenarios.

Mak.2657:

Situations.2416:

I would actually say most thief/mesmer duels on the same skill level were 50/50 much like a thief vs thief or mesmer v mesmer battle. Though this is 1on1s and very top tier PvP.

You are wrong.
It is well known that starting from some level of experience thief statistically beats mesmer of equal skill even 1vs1 (prepatch I mean). It’s is from my personal and mesm community experience (afaik) . If you want refer to ESL authorities – Helseth, Supercutie stated the same. E. g. Supercutie guide: http://bit.ly/SupcutieGuide , p 3.10 – Class Specific Matchups.

Supcutie also beat toker alot when they dueled for practice and Kyra has destroyed all top tier thieves as well in 1on1s if you’re talking about meta build vs meta build (s/d vs shatter or d/p vs shatter) as I saw it in person in private arenas and in KOTH but in teams Supcutie himself even went thief (sometimes condi ranger) in tourneys because mesmer was no use in team scenarios because of Toker/Caed and other good thieves on other teams hard counter to mesmer in team situation.

In 1v1s though it’s much more balanced between the 2. This was pre-patch , supcutie or kyra would wreck those guys even in team situations now. Thief has mobility and quick prodding in team fights still though and still has arguably the best ressing potential though besides a traited ranger with S&R or guardian.

You got trolled hard, and there’s a bug that locks you into taunt sometimes under very weird circumstances (i can’t even reproduce it myself, it just happens sometimes) and you can’t get out of it unless you use a stun break or get another cc on you , it breaks it.

rchu.8945:

BurrTheKing.8571:

It used to be that if you were a good Mesmer you could destroy all but the best teef players. Yes, being hardcountered can suck, but it wasn’t like they were being destroyed by every class or anything.

Destroy all but the best thief players pre-patch? If that’s the case there would’ve been more Mesmers in the top tournaments, clearly that wasn’t the case.

He means in 1on1s I’m sure , in which case he is partially correct although thief still had a huge advantage pre-patch but alot of good mesmers could dominate thieves of the same level. I would actually say most thief/mesmer duels on the same skill level were 50/50 much like a thief vs thief or mesmer v mesmer battle. Though this is 1on1s and very top tier PvP.

In team fights, it’s another story .. Pre-patch s/d thief was a hard counter to mesmers because of constant high dmg burst on the mesmer and mobility point to point. Mesmer in team fights with an enemy thief especially good (Toker / Caed / Sizer / Shad level) was a free kill essentially because of the countering ability.

Now it’s funny to watch thief get absolutely dominated by mesmer. The results pre-patch and post-patch are unbelievably different because mesmer got insanely stronger. Thieves actually got some buffs, nothing crazy but its just mesmer got much more buffed and dominates them now.

mistsim.2748:

it also makes me laugh when I clear said warriors off my node. who’s next?

You’re not that great honestly, played against you many times in queues and you got rekt by Tarcis plenty of times on his very stream. So , who is next for you? Maybe phantaram , who also wrecks you on point. Or maybe backpack who also wrecks you on point. Seen them all kill you plenty on stream. I don’t know man. You make yourself out to be quite OP but you’re really just running a standard pew pew and not very effective against good players. Shrug

I also love how you actually edited your post with ‘RAWR’ … Jesus christ… Lmao

Zenith.7301:

nearlight.3064:

Photoloss.4817:

nearlight.3064:

I want the base heal to be nerfed but the scaling with healing power to be massively improved so glass cannon builds in pvp have less sustain, while builds focused for it, such as celestial or what have are still able to heal over 3K with it. Clestial can’t even heal 3k with it now.

Absolutely ruins it for PvE. Just ignore Healing Power until Anet launches a global rework.

In PvE, damage is king, and nerfing this trait won’t effect your damage. In ideal scenarios the heal isn’t important because no one should be taking any real damage. All this trait does is let mesmers carry bad pug groups that can’t dodge.

So this raises an ethical question. Is it better to balance for the competitive game mode where tournaments and gems and money are often on the line, or is it better to balance for a cooperative game mode where most encounters are ended by picking up an ice bow and pressing 4? You tell me.

You haven’t fought Mai Trin of fractal lv50 if you think restorative mantras is of marginal use in PvE. That trait makes the fight night and day.

Why not just have the scale differences in PvE / PvP ? PvE it stays the same but in WvW / PvP it scales better with healing power and works like nearlight suggested? Both sides win.

This whole thread made me laugh…. Power rangers are no where near the node clearing capability of rampage warrior , especially a good warrior and warriors bring much more to team fights even outside of rampage. They’re in a worse spot than pre-patch but they’re still pretty good.

serenke.4806:

Cynz.9437:

bhagwad.4281:

Can you imagine the outcry if thief got invulnerable frames? . I’m sure thieves would love it though…

and aoe backstab from range… and mutiple ranged stuns dealing 3k dmg that cost 0 initiative… and unavoidable blinds

no, we wouldn’t love it… it would just make pvp totally broken and unenjoyable~

If you see a bunch of illusions running towards you, you can expect to be blown up so dodge or evade it? Oh you get stunned before it lands? Use a stunbreak. You have none? Why not?

Lol , why not? Because stun breaks usually are on 2 to 3 times the cooldown of the mantra recharge itself , and you don’t get 3 charges of stun breaks, you get 1 use. That was the dumbest question I’ve ever seen and close to the worst defense for mesmer I’ve seen yet. Mesmer instant stuns are broken and the burst dmg is ridiculous at the moment. It will for sure be nerfed after WTS.

Oh yea, I dodged the shatter burst but still get blind spammed for it, guess that’s alright too huh?

The people that defend mesmer’s current state are pretty hilarious.

Exciton.8942:

lighter.2708:

Extreme.8350:

Kenmei.7138:

Mesmer is totally braindead class right now mostly for “wannabe pros”. Except the good ones prepatch, 90% of them are totally carried by the OP class mechanics.

Yes , it’s a rant post.

I have played against ur guild visceral effect and they are totally brainless too
We dont see abjured with mesmer hmm i wonder why

you can go ask every abjured member, if mesmer is op, they will say yes..

Because they gonna face mesmers in WTS final and already finding excuses for potential losses?
Yeah, mesmer is strong atm but the whatever profession balance is hardly matters in all the ESL matches.

Wait what , this completely contradicts what you have been saying. Your whole point was that mesmer is ineffective and backpack could play on any class and do well. But now you’re saying the entire abjured lineup is whining about mesmers because of mesmers they’ll face in the future and get wrecked? So they do matter or don’t matter? I’m getting mixed signals here.

Please OP , you know exactly what you’re doing making this post and wording it the way you did. It’s a very passively troll way of saying mesmers are OP now and you have an easy time killing people on it now.

It’s literally basically another way of putting what you wrote, and there have been countless posts in the mesmer forums doing the exact same thing and how they’re swapping classes now because it’s wayyyyy tooooo easy only you tried not coming off as trolly as most of them.

This entire post was bait for complaints.

Padapwn.5924:

I dont understand many of these ranger is done/bad posts. LB/GS you can stun lock many classes and the classes that you cant you have enough to kite them around as your “SUSTAINED DAMAGE” burns them down. From my experience, proper LB/GS play only struggles against three things:
- D/D Ele
- Warrior who can pop rampage effectively and you cant kite
- Reflect mesmers (most mesmers dont run this however as it only counters rangers)

You absolutely need to be skilled to run LB/GS build and you ABSOLUTELY need to be able to use your pets properly and Ranger is one of the few classes that you have to know all of the ins and outs against every class you face or you can get exposed. This is not a face roll sit in LB the whole time pew pew class.

I have been super busy and dont want to put the time into streaming lately, but i am on lots and if you dont believe me i have no problem dueling you. Add me in game and give it a go.

Yea just land 3 stuns in a row on top tier pvp players, it’s so easy , i’m surprised EVERYBODY isn’t doing it by now!

Please…

Have shatters blind on actually landing dmg on somebody , not just when or wherever you do a shatter skill OR put an ICD on it and fix it going through evades (which is every blind application not just shatter blinds) so when you dodge shatters, you’re able to dodge the blind portion of it. This would help alot with it currently.

Right now it’s just silly

Dmg dmg dmg , all about dmg, everybody thinks so one-dimensionally in terms of PvP … Nobody ever thinks about team utility – this is why ranger isn’t in top tier teams… No uniqueness can be brung to a team with ranger right now. Spirits were the only team support and BM was a selfish node holding build heavily reliant on bird pets.

Exciton.8942:

Situations.2416:

Extreme.8350:

Kenmei.7138:

Mesmer is totally braindead class right now mostly for “wannabe pros”. Except the good ones prepatch, 90% of them are totally carried by the OP class mechanics.

Yes , it’s a rant post.

I have played against ur guild visceral effect and they are totally brainless too
We dont see abjured with mesmer hmm i wonder why

Backpack plays mesmer for Abjured , and does well on it, it’s that brainless

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMcouNb1oiY

The misinformation on forums is real

Wat? played well? He died like within 35 seconds into the game
And after respawn, he died again very soon by just one thief pressuring on him.
And during all these, Abjured still got a 60-20 lead….They also teamwiped Apex even though backpack is like coming back from respawn.

Bottom line is that he would still win with the team not matter what he plays and also looked like he contributed something. Abjured is just so much stronger than Apex prime

Prevented zoe backcapping with portal , constantly +1’d fights, timewarp on downed bodies for slow and quickness. Did alot to keep nodes in their favor and help with teamfights with mesmer specific utilities. Shrug

Either way I was just saying that because he said abjured doesn’t run a mesmer , backpack would play engi but he’s having too much fun on mesmer atm because it’s broken and obviously, anybody can just pick the class up and be effective with it. It’s so dumbed down now it’s unbelievable.

Fay.2357:

StickerHappy.8052:

Fay.2357:

Situations.2416:

Some are players who only visit the forums and theorycraft all day and duel and roam WvW and occasionally play PvP at a low-mid tier level and are considered advice-givers so their opinion is considered heavily (Fay) but in truth they’ve never been at a top tier level of PvP gameplay or on a top tier team ever like other mesmers who also coincidentally never visit the forums

Aside from being fairly inaccurate in your assessment, it amuses me that you make this argument and then expect people to ignore that advice when it comes to the proclamations you’ve been making yourself. Last time I checked, you’re as unremarkable a player as the rest of us forum heroes, so why should anyone listen to what you, some random person entering the forum to give a biased perception of Mesmer, has to say over what veteran and consistently accurate members of the community have to say?

Situations.2416:

Who do you balance for in this game? do you balance for the noob / average gamer or do you balance for the top tier player?

The proper answer to this question is you balance for the average gamer, otherwise you lose the average gamer, and subsequently your game.

Some games, the balance for the average gamer fits the balance for esports (see LoL). Some games it could, or maybe might with a lot of work, but currently doesn’t (see GW2). The Anet balancing team cant decide which they want to do, and so we end up with a schizophrenic mix of balance decisions intended to try and foster esports alongside balance decisions designed to make the game easier and more approachable for average players.

Just Curious, how can you say that he is an unremarkable player too like the rest of us?

Because if he wasn’t, he would have been using that experience and background as a bludgeon in every post, instead of constantly making vague references to what other people said or did.

Facts hurt, I know as does the history of gw2 meta that includes mesmer or else you would have simply tried to correct my assessment of how mesmer stood in the past metas but you can’t because it’s true , and did actually happen so you can’t really say anything except retort to me being a nobody / average player so why should you take what I say seriously. That’s called grasping for straws and being desperate in most arguments.

I only mentioned what other people said because he had to mention some reference to pre-patch shatter mesmer said by phantaram so I responded with references of some of the current top tier players on how they think of mesmer now. Shrug

Anyway, this argument is really going no where now so I’m done :P

Extreme.8350:

Kenmei.7138:

Mesmer is totally braindead class right now mostly for “wannabe pros”. Except the good ones prepatch, 90% of them are totally carried by the OP class mechanics.

Yes , it’s a rant post.

I have played against ur guild visceral effect and they are totally brainless too
We dont see abjured with mesmer hmm i wonder why

Backpack plays mesmer for Abjured , and does well on it, it’s that brainless

The misinformation on forums is real

Both the thief and the ranger were extremely bad in this video, doesn’t really make ranger OP. Shrug

Exciton.8942:

There was a quote from Phantaram post on forum before patch. I agree with his view point.

Phantaram.4816:
Here is my 2 cents on Mesmers.
Currently on a personal power level Mesmers are a quite bit weaker than the rest of the meta. What mesmers bring to the table though is portal which is extremely strong.
If the personal power level of mesmer is to rise, which it seems to be judging by the trait changes, then Mesmer will become mandatory because portal is just that strong.

And you can guess what he said about mesmers post-patch. He’s said they’re much stronger than they should be and are pretty OP now and should be shaved down accordingly. Same with Magic Toker , same with Backpack, same with most of the Abjured players. This spans not even just in NA but into Europe as well where most of the top tier players are expressing how mesmer is horribly overpowered now – Rom , Helseth , Texbi , Denshee , etc. They’ve all stated this on their stream.

Alot of the people in this thread though have very mixed feelings of mesmer, most of them are players who have never ever been at the top tier level of gameplay and truly aren’t great players and probably will never be. Some are players who only visit the forums and theorycraft all day and duel and roam WvW and occasionally play PvP at a low-mid tier level and are considered advice-givers so their opinion is considered heavily (Fay) but in truth they’ve never been at a top tier level of PvP gameplay or on a top tier team ever like other mesmers who also coincidentally never visit the forums – which ALSO IS WHAT THIS GAME IS BALANCED AROUND, not PvE , not WvW , but PvP. There is where 90% of your balancing comes from.

The ultimate questions are this:

Who do you balance for in this game? do you balance for the noob / average gamer or do you balance for the top tier player?

If you’re balancing for the noob, mesmer isn’t where it should be or atleast where it should be because of course, it completely caters to a noob playstyle now as opposed to pre-patch and if you’re balancing for top tier , then mesmer is horribly overpowered (as said by most top tier players). Which one do you listen to? If this game truly wants to go esports, as they’re very clearly trying to go , they should follow suit and balance for top tier like Dota , etc. – otherwise, noob players will continually ruin this game even more than it already is in the top tier / esports pvp aspect of it.

Fay.2357:

StickerHappy.8052:

Situations.2416:

-snip-

Good Stuff, I remember all of these.. You are forgetting Vassangel was also on the warriors list. You are also foregtting Kyra the OP/imba mesmer haha.

I think Sizer only made the build popular. If I remember correctly It was originally Kronos’ build then Jumper started using it and claiming it as his own.

Although Deku was very strong with the spirit ranger meta before but let’s not forget how Caed “tactically” ripped Deku apart with his thief.

But hey these are facts, good ole days. Good luck explaining these to the mesmers here in the forum now.

I have been telling this on my other thread about the perception of meta and top tier, and people are calling me the one who is misinformed.

And this entire novel just proves the points I was making, albeit with a bit of warped storytelling.

Mesmers started dropping out of the meta at the same time warrior was buffed. Recall that this was when they nerfed mainhand sword into the ground, making effective play much harder. It came back a little with double ranged shatter builds, but by the time those got much use, the condition meta hit and dunked mesmer out of the meta hard.

After the condition meta started getting toned down was when s/d thief skyrocketed in popularity, and forced mesmers to remain out of the meta for this period. Shortly thereafter, the celestial meta hit, and mesmers have remained out of the meta for the remainder of it.

At all points, a couple people still played mesmer. This, however, is anything but evidence of mesmer’s meta status. Even the very best mesmers in the game spent record time in downstate, and were ultimately only on the teams because of portal, and because their personal skill allowed them to bludgeon a non-viable class into use.

Lastly, as my original point that I made was about, that was foolishly disputed, at every single point in the history of play, the meta focused towards builds that were low effort, low risk, and high reward.

Mesmers were brought for more than portal, for boon stripping as mesmers did it much more reliably than necros and with alot more team support and moaing guardians to burst them down quickly.

Mesmers have always been needed on teams, even in the condi meta they were needed (destroying boons ruins bunkers, but bunker condi is a complete counter to shatter mesmer) the only problem is just they couldn’t be brung in condi meta because there was never enough condi removal to couple with going shatter.

Mesmers were always needed for 3 things: Boon removal, moa’ing , portal and this was precisely what they were brought to teams for. This is still what they’re only needed for today, even with the burst damage they have now – that’s just icing on the cake but now you get more team viability running mantras if you wanted.

My ‘story’ is far from warped , it’s a very accurate description obviously there’s alot more detail to each meta but this is a topical view of each meta event in GW2 history in a PVP perspective of course.

Is there something wrong with somebody who’s played mesmer before to come into the mesmer forums to discuss the mesmer class?

—

You are confused about the metas, when Skovex / Vain / Sataarcoeny were dominating at the beginning of the game, shatter mesmer were godlike. This was when Supcutie started learning to play.

Warrior was virtually non-existen except Apt’s longbow / gs build which wasn’t that great at all.

d/d and s/f elementalists shined in this meta, trap rangers shined in this meta.

shortly after, warrior was given a huge rehaul and became very good. and slowly got nerfed over time and then kind of settled into metas as they shifted. This is where you also saw BM rangers start to shine as bunker node holders , although that quickly got nerfed as birds were doing about 8k-9k dmg on f2’s consistently with an incredible amount of bunker, so it was nerfed and no longer viable.

This went on and slowly evolved into the condition meta where Spirit rangers became popular due to Deku God / Vyndetta / Tany / Ovi (who previously played Trapper ranger in the paradigm days). This is where elementalists and shatter mesmers were no longer viable due to the condition amount. It was heavily dominant by Thieves / Guardian / Necro / Spirit rangers.

This moment in the meta created the condition meta , the aids meta aka Dhuumfire necro / condi engi / spirit ranger and even condi warrior bunker variants. Warrior was decent in this time sort of because of CI , and it’s ability to tank out conditions but still was overshadowed.

Then came a few spirit ranger nerfs and dhuumfire nerfs. This was around the time Denial Esports vs SYNC days the time of the hammer warrior , spirit ranger , thief , guardian , necro days.

Within this period warriors were king, shatter mesmers starting coming back due to a lessening of condition builds (spirit ranger was no longer viable because of the CC on elite, necro dhuumfire got moved to an ICD and only in DS, etc).

Shortly after this meta came celestial and a overhaul period where you saw conditions become useless due to elementalist buffs , reworking of amulets and the reworking of celestial over the board , not just PvP. This introduced the celestial meta: Shoutbow, celestial engi , celestial ele , etc etc. Shatter mesmers came back in most teams because of the ability to quickly destroy these builds. That is the only reason they were brought, and of course portal. Now, thief counters mesmers so that was your main enemy as a mesmer.

The meta has adjusted and now it still is somewhat of a celestial meta for eles and now for necros (Noscoc), but you notice it being a much burstier meta now with mesmers on top , thief still doing decent dmg but their usefulness, warrior burst and rampage, guardian bunker got better and engi is a bit worse except they run marauder in top tier now no longer running celestial rifle.

Mesmer was out of the meta , out of all these years during a period of 8months max until they started returning as the decline in the condition meta started dissipating into the dmg / celestial meta. UNFORTUNATELY, at the very same time Sizer’s build became popular and d/p was strong and thieves were kings in dmg so upon their return, their natural counter was buffed to extreme. But that didn’t put them out of the meta at all. Mesmer has been around in the metas around the condition meta in top teams much more than it has been out of the meta.

Anyway, this is for people who don’t follow top tier PvP and think they’ve been screwed over in competitive pvp for 2+ years because it’s completely, and utterly false.

Morwath.9817:

nearlight.3064:

Morwath.9817:

Abjured comp isn’t unstoppable with him.
Necro is amazing class as long as your team has edge over enemies, however Necro becomes worse when you’re equal with enemies and gets dead weight when you’re behind.

-> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIkJmb7PeyM
(oRNG wins vs Abjured 2:0 in Boston, prepatch and imho Necro was better prepatch than now)

Speaking broadly about this issue, more than just your video,

I’d argue that its better now. Cele is tanky. Its limited by kinda meh healing, but its tanky and has high sustained damage and pressure against condis.

Wells are pretty counterable. And the condi builds in the past.. well theyre too frail right now for the lack of condi pressure they’ve brought since all those nerfs in he past and present.

And in general I feel that rotations and teamwork are far more important than the class/build you play.. although necros are only really disadvantaged in that way because of poor mobility, meaning the rest of the team needs to get around point to point a bit faster, but a mobile necro would be OP as kitten, so yeah.

And about backpack as a mesmer, I like him as a player, but he, and all the other new mesmers out there are being carried by the braindead ease of the mantra build. You don’t even need to time your shatters when you can stun every 5 seconds.

Imho Celestial now is much more squishy than prepatch Terrormancer with this abundance of damage floating around we got today.

You’re crazy man .. The LF gen buffs post patch coupled with signets and celestial are more sustainable than terrormancer and you do kitten with conditions now , this alone is justification for not running terrormancer now nevermind the less survivability. Even if they had equal or even more survivability than cele sig necro, conditions don’t work due to aoe cleanse. This gives you both, with might generation and tankyness. You end up hitting near zerk #‘s with 20+ and your conditions are near condi amulet #’s with higher toughness and healing power. Sig also good for teams.

Morwath.9817:

Situations.2416:

Morwath.9817:

Situations.2416:

Morwath.9817:

meow one twenty.4376:

StickerHappy.8052:

Morwath.9817:

blitzkrieg.2451:

Daishi.6027:

A:
Ele
Mes
Guard
Thief

B:
Warrior
Engie
Ranger

C:
Necro.

This being said I feel the gap between tiers are a lot closer than the segregation between tiers of previous metas. Everything regardless of spec has at least somewhat of a chance, and no major builds are 100% pushed out by either the nature of the meta or a hard counter..

So maybe A-, B, and C+?

Necro under ranger? Top team in NA carries a necro and necros with cele signets absolutely much more useful (even power necro is lol) in teams than a ranger ever will be.

Please, ranger is definitely at the bottom of the tier list right now , no matter what list you make.

Abjured has Nos and he -only- play Necro, no matter how good or bad Necro is in certain meta. So using Abjured isn’t really good example… however Ranger is in much worse state for sure.

Did you watch the recent ESL? Saying Nos is the only necro there, you are completely mistaken (I know you’ll say “oh we are talking about Top NA”) But if you knew there are other necors beside Nos you wouldn’t have pointed that out.

That’s not what he said.

^
Also, other Necros in other teams were clearly -1. Abjured probably could lose finals in last week, if enemies would have another Ele/Mesmer instead of their horrible and useless always downed Necro.

Erm, nos got 2nd to most points in the final game last ESL and was constantly holding 2v1’s so his team could cap elsewhere on the map and did exceptionally well in team fights too – cele is beastly on necro with signets. In his 2v1’s he’d get help from toker/backpack and they’d win the battle. Do you even watch ESL or are you just that delusional?

Just because Nos is extremely good at necro and most others are just very bad at understanding necro and can’t fit around their composition , that doesn’t make necro bad. It makes you bad for not playing well.

Do you realize that post you’ve quoted wasn’t about Nos?

Edit (few thoughts):
-> I would dare to say Nos is currently carried by his team. I don’t mean hes bad or something, but that he wouldn’t be any good without the rest of Abjured.
-> The fact that Nos is useful as part of Abjured, doesn’t mean Necro is as good as other meta professions. I think Nos would do better on any of them.
-> The points you’re talking about (scoreboards at the end of match) means nothing, since it only shows that player was somewhere, not really contributed to anything.
-> Nos was playing MM in the final game last ESL…
-> I think Backpack wasn’t playing during last ESL (Nos, Wakkey, Toker, Phanta, 5Gauge?)…

Yea I was thinking of the ESL before last and not this last week against Sympol Life. But he didn’t play MM , he played cele sig, what he norm runs and got most points and was essential in defending the lord with plague form (10% on lord left before they won with a 3 cap , but it was very close and without the blinds they would have lost) and helped tons in team fights (just from watching the videos I watched) as well as rotation. He’s good with Abjured, and their comp is unstoppable with him, he’s not the reason they’re winning alone, they all are the reason. They all work well with each other. Just shows you that it’s not all about class all the time.

But yes, Nos is easily the best necro in the game right now in competitive PvP by FAR and helps his team out alot.

Abjured comp isn’t unstoppable with him.
Necro is amazing class as long as your team has edge over enemies, however Necro becomes worse when you’re equal with enemies and gets dead weight when you’re behind.

-> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIkJmb7PeyM
(oRNG wins vs Abjured 2:0 in Boston, prepatch and imho Necro was better prepatch than now)

Celestial necro is wayyyyyyy better than zerker necro. Nearly the same damage with might stacking and the survivability isn’t even a question. I like how quick people are to say that Noscoc is never the reason they win and they could win with any class as their 5th, but ALWAYS the reason they ever lose. Too funny , they , as a TEAM did bad against oRNG this game. Noscoc would most likely wreck you in 1on1s and The Abjured would most likely wreck you as well, so the hate is extremely real on necros when he continues to win NA. Shrug

Also I’ll add that Wakkey dying in the last team fight and being out-rotated in the end lost that game, not Noscoc. Also, toker and wakkey died more than noscoc in the 2nd. So how exactly did Nos being a necro make them lose again? Don’t worry I’ll wait.

Morwath.9817:

Situations.2416:

Morwath.9817:

meow one twenty.4376:

StickerHappy.8052:

Morwath.9817:

blitzkrieg.2451:

Daishi.6027:

A:
Ele
Mes
Guard
Thief

B:
Warrior
Engie
Ranger

C:
Necro.

This being said I feel the gap between tiers are a lot closer than the segregation between tiers of previous metas. Everything regardless of spec has at least somewhat of a chance, and no major builds are 100% pushed out by either the nature of the meta or a hard counter..

So maybe A-, B, and C+?

Necro under ranger? Top team in NA carries a necro and necros with cele signets absolutely much more useful (even power necro is lol) in teams than a ranger ever will be.

Please, ranger is definitely at the bottom of the tier list right now , no matter what list you make.

Abjured has Nos and he -only- play Necro, no matter how good or bad Necro is in certain meta. So using Abjured isn’t really good example… however Ranger is in much worse state for sure.

Did you watch the recent ESL? Saying Nos is the only necro there, you are completely mistaken (I know you’ll say “oh we are talking about Top NA”) But if you knew there are other necors beside Nos you wouldn’t have pointed that out.

That’s not what he said.

^
Also, other Necros in other teams were clearly -1. Abjured probably could lose finals in last week, if enemies would have another Ele/Mesmer instead of their horrible and useless always downed Necro.

Erm, nos got 2nd to most points in the final game last ESL and was constantly holding 2v1’s so his team could cap elsewhere on the map and did exceptionally well in team fights too – cele is beastly on necro with signets. In his 2v1’s he’d get help from toker/backpack and they’d win the battle. Do you even watch ESL or are you just that delusional?

Just because Nos is extremely good at necro and most others are just very bad at understanding necro and can’t fit around their composition , that doesn’t make necro bad. It makes you bad for not playing well.

Do you realize that post you’ve quoted wasn’t about Nos?

Edit (few thoughts):
-> I would dare to say Nos is currently carried by his team. I don’t mean hes bad or something, but that he wouldn’t be any good without the rest of Abjured.
-> The fact that Nos is useful as part of Abjured, doesn’t mean Necro is as good as other meta professions. I think Nos would do better on any of them.
-> The points you’re talking about (scoreboards at the end of match) means nothing, since it only shows that player was somewhere, not really contributed to anything.
-> Nos was playing MM in the final game last ESL…
-> I think Backpack wasn’t playing during last ESL (Nos, Wakkey, Toker, Phanta, 5Gauge?)…

Yea I was thinking of the ESL before last and not this last week against Sympol Life. But he didn’t play MM , he played cele sig, what he norm runs and got most points and was essential in defending the lord with plague form (10% on lord left before they won with a 3 cap , but it was very close and without the blinds they would have lost) and helped tons in team fights (just from watching the videos I watched) as well as rotation. He’s good with Abjured, and their comp is unstoppable with him, he’s not the reason they’re winning alone, they all are the reason. They all work well with each other. Just shows you that it’s not all about class all the time.

But yes, Nos is easily the best necro in the game right now in competitive PvP by FAR and helps his team out alot.

I like how you used pew pew ranger as the example, one of the easier builds to kill in pvp whether you’re new to pvp or not and instead didn’t use something like cele d/d ele , cele sig necro , mesmer shatter and thief which are all much easier to kill people with than longbow ranger will ever be able to and have 10x the survivability , lol.

I mean I understand what you’re saying, but there are so many much better examples lol

Morwath.9817:

meow one twenty.4376:

StickerHappy.8052:

Morwath.9817:

blitzkrieg.2451:

Daishi.6027:

A:
Ele
Mes
Guard
Thief

B:
Warrior
Engie
Ranger

C:
Necro.

This being said I feel the gap between tiers are a lot closer than the segregation between tiers of previous metas. Everything regardless of spec has at least somewhat of a chance, and no major builds are 100% pushed out by either the nature of the meta or a hard counter..

So maybe A-, B, and C+?

Necro under ranger? Top team in NA carries a necro and necros with cele signets absolutely much more useful (even power necro is lol) in teams than a ranger ever will be.

Please, ranger is definitely at the bottom of the tier list right now , no matter what list you make.

Abjured has Nos and he -only- play Necro, no matter how good or bad Necro is in certain meta. So using Abjured isn’t really good example… however Ranger is in much worse state for sure.

Did you watch the recent ESL? Saying Nos is the only necro there, you are completely mistaken (I know you’ll say “oh we are talking about Top NA”) But if you knew there are other necors beside Nos you wouldn’t have pointed that out.

That’s not what he said.

^
Also, other Necros in other teams were clearly -1. Abjured probably could lose finals in last week, if enemies would have another Ele/Mesmer instead of their horrible and useless always downed Necro.

Erm, nos got 2nd to most points in the final game last ESL and was constantly holding 2v1’s so his team could cap elsewhere on the map and did exceptionally well in team fights too – cele is beastly on necro with signets. In his 2v1’s he’d get help from toker/backpack and they’d win the battle. Do you even watch ESL or are you just that delusional?

Just because Nos is extremely good at necro and most others are just very bad at understanding necro and can’t fit around their composition , that doesn’t make necro bad. It makes you bad for not playing well.

Fay.2357:

I’m going to guess that you’ve never played ele, warrior, thief, engineer, or guardian competitively.

See, how the Mesmer feels now is how all of those classes have felt for years. Mesmer has for a very long time been the epitome of high risk, high effort, and low reward. Sure it feels good when you manage to squeeze out victories from that disadvantage, but lamenting a set of changes that brings Mesmer in line with the risk/reward of all the other classes is basically Stockholm syndrome for gamers.

Keep playing, I’m sure you’ll manage to get past your misgivings of playing a viable class. You could always go play p/p thief or something if you really want the rush of playing an unviable build…

This statement is so silly, anything in top tier is high risk, high effort. Shatter did fine pre-patch and it’s overkill post-patch. It’s really just as simple as that. Anybody who is defending mesmer right now and it’s ability is simply a mesmer main that is SO delusional that the only argument you can come up with is ‘every other class has been op for years! so mesmer is now!’ … Which is weak at best, and makes no sense. This is entirely from a PVP and WVW perspective. Shatter has ALWAYS been good in WVW , but in PVP it’s had downfalls due to metas coming and going.

The mesmer in it’s current state is more powerful than almost all of these classes have ever been aside from ele and thief. The class ‘warrior’ you’re referring to being op for years? You remember warrior being absolute kitten for almost a year and a half then it got buffs? Nice analysis of warrior by you there. Shatter dominated this meta also while warrior was kitten.

Shatter then got killed out when condi meta occurred (spirit rangers and condi necros and condi engis), for only 4-5 months condition meta was around then you started to see shatter coming back after those meta builds were nerfed because you could optimally run around a set of team comps (Helseth for example) and it was shifting to celestial meta/dmg orientated meta which shatter was necessary for the boon stripping on celestial classes.

The only reason you don’t see AS many mesmers was because thieves, who have always been a natural counter to mesmers and even then mes was brought into teams for obvious bunker killing reasons.

Shatter has been around for alot of metas, whether you think so or not and used extensively throughout those metas by top teams, this both ranges between Europe and NA teams.

This idea of ‘shatter being weak for 2 years and every other class is op , so now we deserve to be op’ mentality doesn’t cut it, it’s not true and is also the epitome of why balancing is simply just bad in this game.

Yes, shatter pre-patch was hard, very hard at high levels it was high risk, but so is any class played at a top level – but it was still used in most of the meta.

Now it’s just so dumbed down it’s not even fun to play shatter unless you like easy kills. Really, it’s just not fun anymore. I’m sorry for the people that disagree with me on this.

It is so easy now to kill people with shatter , beyond easy, and I don’t feel accomplishments when I kill people now , before patch I would have this feeling of appreciation for killing another good player because it truly was hard, but also very rewarding because of what you had to go up against. Post-patch it’s just expected to do it, and I do it nonchalantly now it’s really THAT easy now.

I don’t know… I main ele and play mesmer alot though, so it’s not my main. I just don’t know how to nerf mesmer. I don’t want to nerf them entirely but they need some shaving , it’s just too much right now. I don’t know what side either, dmg or survivability. A part of me is thinking survivability, but then if you shave that then dmg might go down as well due to being easily pressured and then could become more useless but really SOMETHING needs to be adjusted on mesmer. It’s out of control right now. Fotms everywhere, existing mesmers are just godlike now , some are even rolling other classes now because of how easy mesmer is now.

Yea, just shut it down really… It’s killed WvW population by more than 50% and the other remaining people are just in there killing each other with golems and farmings keeps and towers to get rank this week. It’s turned WvW into complete and utter kitten.

It really just needs to be shut down entirely and reverted , even fixing it , it’s still annoying and is killing WvW gameplay as a whole.

I think the druids will have transforms that work like druid in WoW transforms, transform to certain things (F keys, like ele attunements) based on how you want to approach the fight. Which would be cool, but IF and that’s a big IF they do that then they need to make transforms not clunky.

But now that I think about it, it seems to big of a task for an elite specialization to undergo and then you would have to modify existing weapons etc … So maybe not.

But that would be sick if the transforms worked nicely.

There’s bugs with all classes right now lolol , not just thief I can assure you of that.

You just feel more targeted because you’re not godlike like last meta. Now mesmers are above you and it hurts, I know, but deal with it.

Tragic Positive.9356:

@Situations
I might have been misunderstood, but what I meant is that players expect the “1 button game” to be as effective as the Ele’s full rotation. And of course – just like you already said – there’s much more there is to it.

I’ve always said that Ranger is the easiest class to play, but the most difficult one to master. The skill cap on our class is pushed the furthest.

Oh! Sorry man, yea I totally misunderstood that. My bad haha

Thanks for clarifying

I think the invis has something to do with being eaten by a pve mob (boss or something?) and you somehow can get out of it, but you’re invisible to everything in PvE and it also carries into WvW. So he’s probably using that bug and going into WvW with it, and being invisible while able to attack. I’m sure if you aoe’d the spot you’d do damage but I’m pretty sure this is how that thief is doing it.

Or maybe he found a way to bug stealth somehow (it is a thief after all) and got it give him unlimited stealth even after atking.

Either way there’s way too many bugs and exploits happening right now and they need to be addressed.

Eh there’s alot of bad rangers and there are good rangers… Try fighting Tanbin the guy is the best ranger I’ve ever come across or played against and he runs both power and condi builds insanely effectively.

There’s alot more to it than ‘pet tanking damage’ and ‘dmg from 1 button’ which is the most idiotic summary of a class I’ve seen. No classes are like that, even classes with bow abilities.

That’s like saying celestial carries: Ele, necro right now and their skills and the skill use means nothing because they run celestial. No skill at all, just amulet doing the work for them.

Or saying mesmer is carried by traits now, no , bad mesmers get wrecked, good mesmers use the skills given accordingly and appropriately to win fights based on who they fight.

It’s no different with ranger.. I’ve only played ranger personally a little bit and only in PVE but I play ele/thief at mid-top levels in PvP and play exceptionally well for zerker ele in WvW (sometimes ill put on cele if i duel great players as the sustain on d/d zerk isn’t nearly as good ) but I follow the forums alot and read from many class forums and I will say while ranger is the least powerful out of all classes currently, it still can be played extremely well. There’s a skill ceiling on the class sure, but it’s alot higher than people think.

I have a feeling druids will be like druids of WoW where they transform into certain things depending on the role they want to take in a given fight, which is interesting, but transformations on this game have always been clunky. Only reason rampage works is because it does 6k damage in each hit with cc’s and 2 rush abilities. If it didn’t have the damage or the CC it would be absolutely useless so really, I just hope if it is transformations , they do the transformation fluidly and correctly.

Ok, well his name is Tanbin. I’m not entirely sure on all the traits but I’ve been studying the build he gave me that he uses for roaming..

aristocracy runes , nature magic which I think is 65% boon duration and he runs a food called ’marjory’s experimental chili’ which gives 20 seconds of 3 might every heal , so 6 might from a heal alone and i think his heal is on 16 seconds or 20 seconds im not sure…

celestial gear w/ dire precision and celestial mix jewelry

He runs skirmishing , wilderness survival , nature magic and sometimes use beastmastery for duels instead of nature magic so he changes his build up from time to time

1 battle sigils on each weapon set (4) , 6 might from heal , most dangerous game gives him 1 might for 10 seconds every 1 second , with 65% might it’s about 16 seconds of might every 1 second i think , and he said sometimes he’ll use zephyr’s speed which is 3 might for 25 seconds everytime he swaps a pet. He’s able to produce fire field consistently in fights as well so I imagine this gives him a little bit more might upkeep too. He said if he ran marksmanship he could easily get 25 might perma due to the might generation from ‘brutish seals’ and ‘clarion bond’ because he could potentially put a fire field down and swap a pet and get 4 might from that too (clarion bond does a blast finisher when you swap a pet). So he has alot of consistent might generation.

It’s a really strong build actually, because he has alot of physical damage and his condi hits as if he’s running a full condi build. It’s frustrating. He said he has about 600 ferocity. Because he wears somefood that converts vitality into ferocity and gives him +100 vitality too, some sort of tuning crystal.

I get close in duels but I can’t kill him no matter what, so much dmg on both ends but really man didn’t know rangers could be this tough! Rangers always whine about them not being viable in roaming too, wow, but this guy has no problem at all roaming.

Thanks again for the input guys, I’m practicing alot in roaming so it helps for sure!

Thanks,

I saw him again and spoke with him. He said he was celestial and he was also building up about 15 might sometimes 20 throughout the fight. He ran 3 stun breaks, lightning reflexes , signet of renewal and quickening zephyr.

He would set up quickening zephyr and burst me down to about 20% from >75% health at the perfect times knowing my cooldowns were off. His sword leaps alone were hitting me for 1,000 on crit so I know he wasn’t full condi. I only went DS at first because I thought maybe he was condi based because his burns/bleeds were ticking for so much.

He runs bird pets , but sometimes run wolf and dog pet.

Thanks for the tips guys, I duel him regularly since we’re still matched up with Yak’s bend so I’ll see if this helps.

Hello,

I was fighting a ranger on yak’s bend today in EBG in WvW and I simply couldn’t beat him no matter what… He was insanely good and running axe/dagger sword/torch he had good power dmg and insane conditions too. He was running the taunt skill which is very troublesome to deal with.

Any tips fighting them? I couldn’t even kill him diamond skin, he did too much for the health threshold then his conditions ate me up.

I consider myself a pretty good ele against most rangers and actually never had trouble with them until today , he was insane. I managed my condi well , but his combo setups after me leaving water attunement were nicely setup and it was hard for me to stay on him with chill and weakness affecting my movement and dmg ouput.

I’m running celestial / zerk mix with hoelbrak runes fire water arcana w/ blinding ashes.

To the FA ranger from [Corp] you left before I could invite you to group but wanted to say good fight man, you are one hell of a ranger and you pretty much owned me but if you see this I wanted to see if you could whisper me and give me some build/ideas and some tips?. Name is Sers De Larasoz. Thanks