Guild Wars 2

I like the addition of the new dungeon/zone, however my excitement for these 2 new additions are completely overshadowed by the decision to change GW2 into a gear focused treadmill. There was no “gap” between exotics/legendaries so how does creating one solve a problem that never existed?

TimeBomb.3427:

Ryan.6951:

[&Ag-gkAAA]

http://imgur.com/N1PBX

It’s way beyond any slight bump. “if that’s a blue then even the best will only add 20 condition damage”

how wrong could you be. Go look. This is in game now.

You can’t get a % increase based on this ring’s stats because there is no other exotic ring that has all the same stat setup as this one. Let’s assume there was one, though. What stats would the exotic have? We can use some math to approximate this.

The ascended ring’s main stats are 31 points each, right? Six times. Well, the ascended ring w/ three stats has 72+51+51 points. Let’s average out the stats, 72, 51 and 51, and use that as a “weight” when we apply some math to exotic rings. That’s 58. 31 is 47% weaker than 58.

Now let’s look at an exotic ring and apply the same math. 67+48+48. As with the ascended ring, we’ll average these numbers out to get the “weight”. That’s about 53. 47% of 53 is about 28.

The difference? (28 * 6) vs (31 * 6). Thus this ascended ring you’re complaining about is roughly about 10.7% stronger than a potential exotic equivalent. Not including the gem or infusion gem, though. This number is very similar to my previous approximation (using real items) of 11%. Take a look at my previous posts for more info.

Cats out of the bag. We are looking at approximately a 11% increase in quality from exotic to ascended. This isn’t a minor increase, this is massive.

None. Until this gear treadmill gets sorted out & we return to the core philosophy GW was founded on I won’t ever either.

Loosifah.4739:

TheWarKeeper.5374:

180 pages with uninformed ppl asking why we dont want this game to turn into WoW or DDO and ppl disagreeing, needlless to say the latter is the overwhelming crowd, hopefully they will clear this shamefull mess and never again talk about implementing gear grinding in this specific game nor its expansion packs to come.

This game has nothing in common with WoW or DDO; all that’s happening is a new tier of equipment.

Your rationalization that a new tier = turning into WoW is just making assumptions.

I’m not going to repost the half a dozen quotes that specifically state, tiered gear progression would never be added to GW2 & here we are. GW1 never did in 7 years, why has this changed? Why are we reverting back to a flawed design concept that has plagued the MMO industry for a decade?

TheWarKeeper.5374:

180 pages with uninformed ppl asking why we dont want this game to turn into WoW or DDO and ppl disagreeing, needlless to say the latter is the overwhelming crowd, hopefully they will clear this shamefull mess and never again talk about implementing gear grinding in this specific game nor its expansion packs to come.

This^

Can we just have someone from A-NET “clarify” why we are seeing stat increases? The most recent official post was very vague & tip toed around the issue which left more questions than answers.

Can we please get a official response on this issue? The last response can more or less be summed up as “Were listening” but that was like 3000 replies ago. Almost up to 9000 replies on this issue.

dirtyoldgoat.5496:

Snow.5269:

dirtyoldgoat.5496:

Gear progression is good. So too would be an eventual level creep with new skills and abilities.

I don’t care about the QQ. I really don’t.

Your argument is so compelling. I can tell you are really concerned about the longevity of this game.

Not as compelling as your response.

I don’t see how a game has longevity when it promises to offer nothing new from what one could achieve in the first few months.

GW1 has done fine for 7 years without adding stats increases. Progression was made by completing new challenges, acquiring rare skins, exploring dungeons & experiencing the story. Playing the game the way we want to play, for fun. This is what was marketed to players coming to GW2.

Not another progressive gear based WoW knockoff. “Defying existing conventions” does not mean, cave in first content update & rehash the same failed principles that have been dictating MMO’s for a decade.

dirtyoldgoat.5496:

Gear progression is good. So too would be an eventual level creep with new skills and abilities.

I don’t care about the QQ. I really don’t.

Your argument is so compelling. I can tell you are really concerned about the longevity of this game.

Sco.9615:

Okay, not this post but this one instead:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/A-message-from-our-Studio-Design-Director-Chris-Whiteside/first#post721451

I’m seriously tired of seeing a hundred diff posts about “OMG the world is ending!!” because people cannot use parts of their brains.

The above linked post should be linked in a properly named sticky in this sub forum. Thank you.

Also, for those of you too lazy to go and read it, here’s the main point:

- “We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.”

Now go pet a fluffy kitten…
(and by that I mean calm down.)

We have no reason to believe that. It was stated for years this would never be a progressive gear based MMO and here we are. Why would we take anything at face value anymore? That is the danger of completely changing your founding principles.

In the opening sequence of the “Our Time is Now” trailer we see a player petrified in a chair as a representation of the MMO playerbase being frozen/stuck in the stagnant MMO culture that has become mainstream for the past decade. With the introduction of GW2 he is able to break free of this petrified state & defy existing conventions.

How is this trailer now relevant to GW2’s design philosophy? With the introduction of a “progressive” tier system the player is still petrified to stone, lingering in the same old MMO culture that GW2 vowed to defy.

By changing one of the founding principles that have been touted to its fanbase for over 5+ years in the first content patch is shows a severe lack of confidence in the developers vision that brought us all here in the first place.

You are trying to appease a audience that can never be satiated. Ever. Once they obtain the best loot in the game, they will once again claim “There is no endgame” to which your response will be to add more loot with better stats & the process will go on forever. All the while rendering previous content/time/effort void & aliening players who play on a casual basis.

This is a crossroads. You have the opportunity to change the industry. To change everything, which is why we are all here. We supported your original vision. Don’t divide the community like this. Please reconsider this decision.

In the opening sequence of the “Our Time is Now” trailer we see a player petrified in a chair as a representation of the MMO playerbase being frozen/stuck in the stagnant MMO culture that has become mainstream for the past decade. With the introduction of GW2 he is able to break free of this petrified state & defy existing conventions.

How is this trailer now relevant to GW2’s design philosophy? With the introduction of a “progressive” tier system the player is still petrified to stone, lingering in the same old MMO culture that GW2 vowed to defy.

By changing one of the founding principles that have been touted to its fanbase for over 5+ years in the first content patch is shows a severe lack of confidence in the developers vision that brought us all here in the first place.

You are trying to appease a audience that can never be satiated. Ever. Once they obtain the best loot in the game, they will once again claim “There is no endgame” to which your response will be to add more loot with better stats & the process will go on forever. All the while rendering previous content/time/effort void & aliening players who play on a casual basis.

This is a crossroads. You have the opportunity to change the industry. To change everything, which is why we are all here. We supported your original vision. Don’t divide the community like this. Please reconsider this decision.

SiNoS.2147:

IceCold.5172:

I personally is looking forward to a new dungeon. And the new gear. Cant see what the fuzz is all about if people dont want to grind DONT do it. Stop kittening and whining like little kids lol.

The problem here is that someone with a full set of ascended will have quite higher stats. For example 1000+ hp, 5%+ crit chance, 30%+ crit damage. Those are examples but over all each piece will give you 8% more stats. When some items are over 100 stats already that 8% is massive in power boost. This is what people dont realize. In order to stay useful you will have to grind.

It won’t stop there. It never does. Once a gear treadmill is introduced it never goes away. Once the entire ascended set has been released more new loot will be added with higher stats & so forth.

IonicBlaze.7948:

Arreyanne.2683:

chronus.1326:

Rusha.4725:

28 days later:

Full ascended guy:
-There is no endgame and progression in this game…

Make that 2 days.

Cant be two days they didnt release all 12 pieces yet.

They dont want the Panda crowd to leave. Theyre hoping the Pandas will buy transmute stones first

Pandas will leave soon, because they dont want to wait. When they have the first 2 Items they look around and moan:" Uh, game over, bye GW hello again WoW", so I belive A-Net loses the groundfanbase because of itemtreadmill and loses Itemchasers because of the lack of new items all 2 weeks….double-loss….bad news for A-Net and its great analysts

(This is MY opinion that noone has to share )

This is dead accurate. This is exactly what is going to happen unless they retract this decision.

Xpiher.5209:

I just read Chris Whiteside response to all the complaints. It didn’t answer the main question. It doesn’t matter how many months is in between. What matters how you will

We are also working on other reward and progression systems for the game that tie into current and new content and features

.

incorporate that quote into the game. If you continue to add tiers of gear between ascended and legendaries you introduce gear grind treadmill. If Ascended is now the top level gear, and you don’t add anymore sets, people will believe you are keeping to your principals and will continue to support you. So we need an answer: Is Ascended Gear the end of introducing new tiers of gear into the game? Without answering this question, one way or the other, you aren’t pleasing anyone: those that love gear grind treadmill or those who want you to stick to your philosophy. If you answer it now, regardless of how the answer is, you will be saving yourself from a headache latter by avoiding a Funcom fiasco.

============================================================

PS: I’m sure most would agree that adding in further progression into the game isn’t a bad thing. Many would welcome more skills to unlock, and new story content that ensures access to future content. You wouldn’t be losing anyone if you did character progression a different way.

I also believe that if you used the ascended/agony system by just adding in new “runes” that allows you an easier time in future dungeons, people complaining about vertical progression and gear grind treadmill will be appeased as well, while those who like gear treadmills will be appeased by feeling more powerful in new dungeons that offer better rewards. The reason why I believe this is acceptable is because you aren’t gating content this way. You simply add progression to the dungeons, people won’t have to do FOTM to get have a chance in a new dungeon, they will have to do that dungeon more to have an easier time at it.

I have to agree that the “official response” didn’t do anything for me. I want a concrete answer. Why are we changing one of the founding principles of the game in the first content update to appease a crowd that will never be satisfied. It shows a lack of confidence in a vision the developers have been creating for 5+ years as well as breaking the trust of the fanbase.

You will never satisfy the gear treadmill/power creep crowd. Ever. As soon as they acquire the new loot, they will once again claim there is no endgame which the developers will respond to by adding more loot with better stats & it will never end.

Celesica.5790:

Is arenanet executing their vision of the game by reversing their stance on gear tiers?

They are currently executing their vision of their game as of now, but with regards to the Ascended and Infusion stuff, they already said their goal isn’t to create a gear treadmill but a proper progression for players. We’re not sure yet if it’ll be an endless grind for better gears. What if when people play the new content, they’ll be able to get those new gear in just weeks, and then in a month everyone has it? What if not? Well, we don’t know yet because it’s not there yet, right? How can we know the amount of time to dedicate just to get this new gear? Afaik, GW2 is all about choosing how you want to progress and spend your time. How can we know that they are uber better gears than exotics? We still can’t verify this if we haven’t tested them yet.

If this IS their vision, why have they never told us about it during 5 years of blogs and community info, during a frenzy of sales leading up to; and immediately after launch?

I’m sorry I can’t answer this because I don’t know why, too? Lol. But there were reasons why they did this for sure. You might want to go back to Linsey’s blog post.

If this is NOT their vision of the game, why are they doing it?

For the game? For us? For the reasons they have stated why they did this?

The only mistake I’ve seen that ANet did about this whole thing is how they delivered the message. Linsey haven’t stated that in the future, Ascended can be acquired from other PvE and WvW aspects of the game, while Chris did that assurance. But before I’d assume and jump into conclusions and call them names or whatsoever, I’d have to play this new content first before I’ll judge, and see how the community grows/declines using these new stuff.

I’ve played games long enough to see the warning signs & this is a big red flag. You keep taking their words at face value as if what we have just been told will now hold true. We can look back over the past 5 years & come up with dozens of quotes that appeared to be rock solid & now here we are 3 months out from release & the one of the founding principles is being changed overnight to cater to a audience that will never be satisfied.

Here is what happens when you try to appease the power creep crowd:

“OO new loots with bigger stats”
-Acquired loots-
“I can no longer enjoy this game, no endgame”

Dev response, add new shiny loots with bigger stats

“OO new loots with bigger stats”

And the cycle never ends…..

JBleezz.2697:

Snow.5269:

After this change, anything stated is subject to change. When a playerbase is specifically told “Here is our mission statement” and then it changes to the exact opposite how can the playerbase continue to trust?

Ok I’ll bite please quote the statement in the mission statement where they promised they would never add a tier of gear.

“Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.”

http://venturebeat.com/2012/05/21/guild-wars-2-interview-monetization/#s:guildwars2-16

JBleezz.2697:

Ryan.6951:

“This is just the beginning. In November, we’re only adding the first level of Infusions and Ascended Rings and Back slots, so that leaves us a lot of room to build upon these levels of Item progression in future content.”

Honestly. To Jamais and JBleezz. That’s verbatim copied and pasted from Linsey’s blog post. First level. Not first pieces. First LEVEL. building upon these LEVELS, not these pieces.

Quit telling me she didn’t say that. She said it.

And to quote Chris verbatim:

“Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.”

So their goal is not to create a gear treadmill, so they’re going to create a slow gear treadmill instead and stretch it out over months. Wat?!

Massive jump in reward? What massive jump? Do legendary weapons come with hidden stats? No, there’s no reward jump. Cosmetics? Oh ok, a 200g foefire isn’t middleground enough between pearl and eternity? sigh.

And this is the heart of where I disagree with you.

You read that as Ascended gear is just the first level and the next levels are new tiers of more powerful gear. I read that as the new Back pieces and rings are the first level and that the next level isn’t more powerful gear but other pieces of Ascended gear including armor and weapons.

This is supported by the quote

“Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.”

you seem to read this as oh we won’t have a fast treadmill every three months it will be slow. I read this as a snarky comment on the people who have been extrapolating this into there is going to be a new tier every three months. So he is basically saying that no there is not going to be keep adding new tiers.

As for the FoeFire weapons being a middle ground I believe that was their original intent however for those like me who don’t particularly enjoy those skins we are left with no middle and instead face a massive grind for a legendary with no middle goals along the way.

After this change, anything stated is subject to change. When a playerbase is specifically told “Here is our mission statement” and then it changes to the exact opposite how can the playerbase continue to trust?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxszx60ZwGw

A-NET you may want to watch this video before going down this road. A great detailed delivery of consequences of a gear treadmill/power creep.

Ryan, thank you for making your post. Moderators, please do not throw this into the other thread as this one carries a very important message & one that needs to be seen/heard by everyone at A-NET.

Ryan put into words what I could not

“Here’s what we believe: If someone wants to play for a thousand hours to get an item that is so rare that other players can’t realistically acquire it, that rare item should be differentiated by its visual appearance and rarity alone, not by being more powerful than everything else in the game. Otherwise, your MMO becomes all about grinding to get the best gear. We don’t make grindy games — we leave the grind to other MMOs.”

When I purchased GW2, this is what I believed. I was purchasing something different. Something special. Arenanet, you have the power to keep this game special. Please make this decision carefully.

Having played numerous MMO’s I eventually identified the one characteristic which drove me away from all of them. The gear treadmill. A gear treadmill is a linear design concept where every time new content is released, new gear is added with higher stats, effectively making all previous acquired gear obsolete (As well as your previous time & effort).

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/linsey-murdock-unveils-new-high-end-ascended-gear/

“This is just the beginning. In November, we’re only adding the first level of Infusions and Ascended Rings and Back slots, so that leaves us a lot of room to build upon these levels of Item progression in future content.

As we release more new end game content in the future, you’ll see more Infusions and Ascended item types being added to the game. Eventually, you’ll be able to kit yourself out with a full set of Ascended gear and high end Infusions to help give you the edge in end game content."

Perhaps I am misinterpreting your meaning but what I am reading as a customer is:

“We are going to continue to add better gear with addition of every content update rendering your previous gear void & oh yeah, your friends who haven’t logged on in a few months they will no longer be able to do content with you because they are not ascended.”

Now if I am not mistaken in GW2’s mission statement/manifesto was it not stated that GW2 would “NOT” be a gear treadmill based MMO?

Imakkiman.2875:

I cannot believe people are actually crying about the ascended gear. The ’ gear treadmill’
will keep multiple people interested and it DOES NOT Prevent anyone from playing that content.

inb4: Blind fanboys

In GW1 I could leave the game for 6 months, come back & be on even playing field. With upcoming addition, the same won’t hold true for GW2. After only 3 months we have minor increases to items. In another 3 months, likely another minor increase. Minor increases add up to large gear disparities. Creating a uneven playing field.

I am really hoping this is still being misinterpreted somehow & A-NET just needs to clarify. As a customer what I am reading is “Never ending gear treadmill that completely contradicts GW2 mission statement.”

frak.5239:

Malediktus.9250:

Very good news, lets hope precursors drop below 100g. They shouldnt cost more than a full set of t3 cultural armor.

why? because you think so?
how about people who farmed their soul off since day 1 and bought them full price?

first karma jugs and now precursors
next we’ll see clovers, lodestones and runestones easier to acquire thanks to people who think they’re entitled to get a legendary only because they want to, while barely working towards it

Many players who currently have legendaries got their precursor for 5-10g. They would like everyone to believe they worked hard for it but that is not the case.

Cerise.9045:

tyu.9470:

Nooo..this is sad news. Why do arenanet only listen to casual people whining about everything that is a tiny bit hard?

If you are willing to make legendaries even a tiny bit easier than it already is what is left legendary about them? Just remove their legendary color and make them named exotics with the patch.

Most people who actually have a legendary weapon got their base weapon early on when they sold for 15-20G.

So it’s not like it really matters.

Exactly.

John Smith.4610:

We’ve received a large amount of feedback about Legendaries becoming unreachable. This is actually a topic we’ve been tracking for quite some time. To ease your minds I am here to say that it’s something we’ve been watching and we’ve been listening to your feedback. You can expect to begin to see changes addressing the issue starting with our next build.

Thanks for giving everyone a update John. I hope when addressing the precursor issue a fun/challenging alternative is created that does not involve gold or gambling as well as making precursors account bound.

There are many many suggestions on the crafting forum posted by Lindsey, please take some of those into consideration. I would also like to emphasize we are NOT asking for precursors to be handed to us or easy to obtain but rather through a exciting journey/challenge & removing gambling/TP manipulation requirement that is currently necessary.

Dogblaster.6713:

Snow.5269:

I don’t understand why so many players believe dungeon tokens would not be a reasonable exchange for a precursor.

There is 8 dungeons. Require a Gift from each. That is 500 tokens from each dungeon & Dungeon Master title ensuring you have cleared every path. Once you have all 8 gifts you combine 4 & 4 creating 2 separate “Gift of” these 2 gifts combined with 2 other mats (250 ecto/t6 mats etc) could then be turned into a item in the Mystic Forge that could be exchanged for a “account bound” precursor of your choice from a vendor.

How is that not more difficult than the people who paid 5-10g for a precursor?

U mad ?

Why are you all that jealous about people that bought precursor cheap? I dont just get it, you had the same opportunity, I had the same opportunity and you missed it. I had 80 g when the legend costed 90 and I went for kitten cultural armor instead of it.

just wow … jealousy ftw

I love how you throw nice interesting ideas and dont see things from the wide prespective like economy and income of areanet. whatever

Economy isn’t based off precursors alone & if it is, then it is doomed to fail. Jealousy? Anger more than anything. The fact that players now have to work 30-40 times harder than those before them & those same players are being labeled as “entitled, jealous, crybabies” is upsetting. Whatever dedication/effort that is required to obtain a legendary at this point will be forever diminished by the fact that many players now holding legendaries had to do little/nothing to obtain one & when I do obtain one I will be perceived in the same way – Exploiter/Gold Buyer etc

Shamrocky.5036:

The RNG to getting the precursor seems really silly. I didn’t even believe it the first time I heard it. The only thing legendary about it is legendary luck.

When I first saw precursors hit the TP for 5-10g I considering buying 1. I hesitated because I assumed there would be a means of acquiring one through normal play & dedication. I beat myself up…every…single…day for not buying one & believing legendaries would be able to be acquired through legitimate means.

After having spending so much time in GW1 fighting alongside the dwarves I just found it upsetting so little was revealed about their current state in GW2.

I was REALLY hoping to learn more about dwarves from Ogden but he only has like 2-3 sentences of dialogue. Which I felt was equally frustrating. He is like one of the most knowledgeable beings in existence atm & we have so limited interaction from him.

Dominae.3146:

>.. and then Arthur, in all his glory, took upon himself the four exquisitely made longswords he had collected, and threw them into the Lake, only to have one of lesser value hefted back at him.

“Kittens!” said Arthur, as he stuffed the lesser sword into his pack. “I shall have to go forth, and farm’eth three more swords to pitch’eth into the lake now!”

Suddenly, Galahad rode by on his mighty steed, proudly waving the Legendary sword Excalibur to and fro, light glistening off the mystical blade.

“HAHA Chinese goldfarmer kittenhole!” shouted Arthur, throwing horse feces at yonder Galahad.

“L2FARM NOOB” responded Galahad, before riding off to meet his international friends, the identical Rangers Qqqqffffff, Qqqqffffgg & Qqqqfffggg to whom he owed much.

Absolutely brilliant. Made my day, thanks!

I don’t understand why so many players believe dungeon tokens would not be a reasonable exchange for a precursor.

There is 8 dungeons. Require a Gift from each. That is 500 tokens from each dungeon & Dungeon Master title ensuring you have cleared every path. Once you have all 8 gifts you combine 4 & 4 creating 2 separate “Gift of” these 2 gifts combined with 2 other mats (250 ecto/t6 mats etc) could then be turned into a item in the Mystic Forge that could be exchanged for a “account bound” precursor of your choice from a vendor.

How is that not more difficult than the people who paid 5-10g for a precursor?

I’ve been storing these in bank, hoping they patch them to actually drop gold.

At the conclusion of EoTN we are told the dwarves went deep underground to combat the destroyers & Primordus after undergoing the Rite of Great Dwarf, turning them to living stone.

Hundreds of years have past & while there has been no presence of the dwarves minus Ogden in Arah, destroyers are practically flowing out from fissures of almost every zone throughout Tyria endlessly.

Is it safe to say then that the Dwarves have failed & or were defeated? They vowed to combat the destoyers & if the destroyers are practically washing over the landscape on the surface the only plausible conclusion would be that Dwarves failed.

John Smith.4610:

I apologize for the lack of current details. What I can currently say about this topic is that
we’ve recently begun a renewed campaign against RMT and Bots. The change in these markets is a direct result of the success of that campaign.

You can expect to see more details coming out within the next couple of weeks.

John does this mean players who have been purchasing gold from 3rd party sites will also be banned? They are just as responsible for bots as the bots themselves.

Malediktus.9250:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Recent-Market-Shifts

Guess what this means? Legendaries will become even more expensive. Ektos, t5 and t6 materials are spiking already.
So getting a precursor through mystic forge also getting more expensive.

You are correct. Forging through the Mystic Forge with even more expensive mats just became even less desirable.

SteepledHat.1345:

I honestly believe that almost every one of you with a precursor or legendary either
a. Bought it from a gold seller
b. Used an exploit to get it
c. Used and exploit to make money to get it.

Very, very, very few of you got it legitimately. None of you grinded for the gold unless you did so when it was very cheap. (Around the 10g mark.) There simply hasn’t been enough time for a non botter to have made enough money to have bought the precursors and all the legendary components.

So yeah, when I see one I don’t go “Wow! I bet he worked hard.”

It’ll never have that effect. I’m not the only person that thinks this way.

Which is a horrible shame. My friend just completed Sunrise this week & he was immediately blasted with “Hey how much RL money you pay to get that” by random people when he is one of the few that earned it legitimately & is deserving of it.

What is A-NET’s design concept for upcoming dungeons in the future? Can we expect to see some more challenging content?

I’m aware that the upcoming “Deep Dungeon” gets more difficult as one descends into it but compared to what? Lupicus? To many Lupicus is most difficult encounter in GW2 but is he really that difficult? No. You need but walk around LA for 2 minutes & see dozens of people in full Arah armor to determine that.

I’m interested in seeing something truly difficult. Something that requires coordination, timing, communication. Right now all dungeon content is pretty much a pushover. Do those truly looking for a challenge have anything to look forward to?

Senik.6549:

Snow.5269:

The entire design philosophy behind precursors is just a awful mess. You have the entire legendary process that is more or less account bound & then 1 component that is not & can only be obtained by gambling or hoping you are that lucky .0000000001% that have 1 drop.

Sure, but assuming they want to ensure legendaries actually remain somewhat rare, how else would you recommend they implement it? At some point, it has to be governed by a (very) limited resource. And, unfortunately, they have to make that resource tradable — e.g. if I ever got a precursor drop and couldn’t trade it, it would just sit in my bank forever because I still won’t be bothered to perform all the other steps required to forge the item.

IMO, this thread is really just a symptom of the fact that there is an growing problem with inflation in the game’s economy right now. If you play the TP market with any seriousness, you’ll see this. The buying power of gold is going down with respect to truly constrained commodities, because too much gold is flowing into the economy, either from gold farmers or other sources.

It’s possible that the precursor market is being manipulated somewhat by gold sellers, but only the devs could determine this (and I assume they are keeping an eye on it and would do something about it if they thought there was a problem).

The precursor situation is a difficult one. The damage has been done so the only thing we can do is move forward with a new design philosophy towards acquisition.
Right now, nothing…nothing in the legendary process is difficult. Its a matter of swiping ones Visa. I would like to see a “elite” dungeon added that only those who are truly legendary players can overcome. No dungeon currently in the game comes remotely close to achieving this. Not even close. Upon completion one would be rewarded tokens that could be exchanged over time for a precursor.

Then we would see the truly legendary players.

The entire design philosophy behind precursors is just a awful mess. You have the entire legendary process that is more or less account bound & then 1 component that is not & can only be obtained by gambling or hoping you are that lucky .0000000001% that have 1 drop.

Ravax.1205:

@ SNOW

Dude.. I didnt buy the precursor off of the TP.. I have the screenshots to prove it..I spent 40 days farming and grinding CS, throwing every rare bow into the forge, selling the other ones in order to buy bows, and had leveled huntsman to 400, and crafted bows in batches of 100. In total 1600 rare bows went into forge, and approx 100 exotics. That is hard work man.. And i didnt try to get another precursor in order to make money off of someone else, i made my OWN precursor. I didnt do ANYTHING besides farming and grinding for my precursor, for example, my map exploration is only at 60% right now.. and I really need to muster up the energy to not get bored out of my mind completing the other mats.Just because you’re a jelly sally doesn’t mean everyone who has a precursor is a lucky kitten.Stop accusing people and stop complaining.The 1600 rares i threw in are worth roughly 240g > 1600 × 15s..You guys are just too lazy to work hard for anything in game.If it’s too ‘omg its gamble i dont like casinos blablabla’ and ‘omg these people selling on TP are crooks’, move on to something else, legendary is just a skin.Re-arrange yourself before you start accusing people of weird non-existent motives.

So your telling me you threw 240g+ into the MF before completing any of your other mats? That doesn’t seem very logical. Lazy? Hardly, I’ve had everything minus the precursor for a long time now.

Ravax.1205:

Lucas Ashrock.8675:

So a player wielding a legendary must be a gambler, who had his day winning a lucky blackjack hand, i see. If it’s just a noob falling every 2 minutes on every dungeon with any idea of what the hell he has to do more than zerg around, not revving someone on his feet not realizing why the hell bother, after all he never did it zerging his karma from day1 never having time for any dungeon, is a legendary player worthy. Right. Lol

If you think 1600 rares, and 100 exotics is luck rather than persistence..

IF you truly think someone doing the same exact amount of attempts will get a precursor too, you really don’t know the difference between a lucky gambling hand (you had) and randomness.

Dude..I’m starting to to think that talking to you people is like talking to a schizophrenic goldfish / brick wall hybrid… You all say you want a ‘fixed’ way of obtaining a precursor.. but dont mind the challenge so lets make it hard, cuz its ‘legendary’! Here’s the solution which ALREADY exists for ya: grind and get 250g., byu it from TP, ultimately it’s the same as if you would have a craft-able recipe (i guarantee you that if there was one, mats would cost probably more than 250g..) That’s fixed. No more gambling involved for you my little friend.

And regarding the ‘noob’ with a legendary bit you said.. in a dungeon.. well the other components required to make the legendary, including 400sp in 2x Crafting, and the 10 dungeon runs, and insane number of mats, if he is a noob.. i guarantee you he wont have his legendary too soon.. even IF he has the precursor..

So basically, with all these posts, there is only 1 thing I can deduce.. You guys under false pretenses actually want a precursor handed to you on a silver platter, because the ‘hard – challenging’ way of obtaining one, which you claim is what you actually want.. already exists…

Bibidy Bobidy Boop! Like magic, the veil behind the lines has been lifted, and all is clear now!

Peace.

Edit: Don’t forget the 500x badges, the 500 ectos, the 100 icy runestones, among ALL the rest.. especially with T6 mats now costing more than 6s each… The precursor IMHO is the EASIEST component…

I keep seeing the same arguments over & over. Anyone who opposes current design philosophy is a entitled child? You realize that many of the players who currently have legendaries bought their precursor off the TP for like……5-10g right? Now players are having to spend anywhere from 300-500g for one & that they want precursors “handed to them”. I’m sorry but how exactly are these players entitled when they have to pay 30 TIMES what you had to pay? The above poster is a prime example. Your motives couldn’t be more obvious.

I keep seeing the same arguments over & over. Anyone who opposes current design philosophy is a entitled child? You realize that many of the players who currently have legendaries bought their precursor off the TP for like……5-10g right? Now players are having to spend anywhere from 300-500g for one & that they want precursors “handed to them”. I’m sorry but how exactly are these players entitled when they have to pay 30 TIMES what you had to pay?

29 Days+, still awaiting a response. Prices higher than ever

Terazeal.1976:

Randomness is the only sure way to keep legendary weapons legendary in rarity. It is abundantly clear that there are an amusingly large number of people with the time and dedication to get every component other than the precursor who would all be running around with legendary weapons by now if there was less randomness involved, thus putting them firmly outside the realm of legend.

This is a terrible argument. Whether players who currently have precursors/legendaries like it or not 1 year from now 20-30 ppl will be running around in LA at any given time with their legendary. There are no “special snowflakes”.

People need to get out of their Wold of Warcraft mentality where it was common to have 1-2 legendaries per server. That will never be the case in GW2. As a matter of fact I see dozens of legendaries daily already. When I do acquire a legendary & I will, I will be one of the first people to stand up & try to get this design concept changed. There has to be a alternative to the acquisition of precursors with 100% certainty. There is nothing legendary about throwing garbage into a mystic pool all day hoping to get the weapon component you need.

Dusk @ 500g, still no response on issue…

While pretty much all details remain unknown, what is known is the dungeon becomes progressively more difficult the deeper one descends & the loot quality increases. While there are many other additions with the November 15th update, I am most excited about the possibility of a “difficult dungeon”.

While some may disagree, I think its fair to say the current dungeon content is VERY forgiving to say the least. Less than 2 months out we have had everything on farm & 1 shot everything without difficulty. Almost every dungeon in the game is/can be pugged.

I’m hoping that changes with the deep dungeon. I would like to see content that actually requires some coordination/communication & some skill to complete. I’m not asking for overtuned bosses that hit for 30k, with 1 million hitpoints but if one examines current state of dungeon bosses in most cases they are simply to forgiving & if it actually is remotely difficult is waypoint zerged by groups than cannot adapt.

Really hoping all of the above issues are addressed in upcoming deep dungeon.

rich.3417:

lol, trading in tokens for precursor means ANet turning into Blizzard, easy mode for everyone that wants an epic gets one.

Yes because buying a precursor for 10g (Yes Dawn/Dusk cost that much initially) is much more difficult than spending 40-50 hours running dungeons.

/facepalm

@Archer

That is sound advice. Nothing worse than setting expectations that aren’t met. I however am very optimistic it will be included in the November 15th patch for the following reasons.

1. Linsey’s post was made almost a month ago. Meaning they were aware there was a issue long before then.

2. If they decide to make precursors account bound, they likely won’t announce it advance, otherwise everyone holding onto precursors are just going to throw them into the TP & try to make any profit they can.

3. GW2 has extremely limited end-game. Right now legendaries are one of 3 faucets of that end-game. PvP/Dungeons/Legendaries. Legendaries being completely exclusive to lottery winners, people who bought them with RMT, exploits.

oZii.2864:

Azelroth.6801:

It’s not the difficulty that people are discussing. It’s the RNG aspect to the whole precursor generation…. that’s pretty much the crux of the whole discussion.

There’s nothing legendary about gambling. There’s also nothing legendary with buying gold either (and I’m not saying that’s what most people have done… but there would be some out there that have)

Legendaries should be made through in-game achievements… not tossing random items into the forge crossing your fingers and hoping for the best.

I don’t find that hard to understand. Why not make the process fun?

Heck make it 10 times harder and I would still be ok with that so long as they removed the randomness of it… back in GW1 days there was weapons/armor that took a hell of a lot of work to obtain and still people were ok with that because there was a sense of clear progression. GW2 should maintain that.

I’d rather see someone own a legendary and think “geez that person achieved everything worthwhile doing in this game and they rock!” instead of “geez that person farmed his butt off to get that weapon…”

At the moment – there’s nothing really epic or legendary about a legendary. It just takes gold – there’s really not much skill involved whatsoever (even the 500 wvw badges are super easy to get… dungeon tokens are easy to get) there’s nothing that’s hard about a legendary other than having enough gold to get it (and you can buy gold) so where does that leave the legendary status?

See the problem is people aren’t looking at the whole picture you don’t want rng for the precursor

If Anet gave you a Precursor and you where going to start your process to make your legendary lets say sunrise.

Are you going to go out and farm every material to make it? Are you really about to farm all 250 ancient bones when they are dirt cheap on the TP? You don’t like RNG so that would remove RNG because you know where to get your ancient bones just like you know where to get the precursor on the TP.

250 Globs of ecto – RNG
250 of each of the T6 Mats – RNG

Now you say there is nothing legendary about buying your precursor so I would assume you are going to go and farm all the above. Which makes you deal with RNG.

I know you wont go buy it because you said thats not legendary. So your argument is you want the precursor just to have it I guess.

Buy it-= Not legendary
RNG = Despise it its dumb remove RNG

Dont complete legendary because both are needed to complete legendary.

Ozii while I respect you playing devils advocate can you be honest & tell us whether or not you have a completed legendary or a precursor? I ask because any & every thread related to this subject you seem determined to prevent any discussion related to changes that may impact precursor acquisition.

None of us are asking for legendaries to be handed to us. However, there needs to be a alternative to gambling or purchasing off the TP. Precursors should be account bound like every other portion of the legendary process. Throwing garbage into the mystic forge for hours on end hoping to get the precursor you desire is a flawed design.

Hopefully we will hear a official response here in next few days. November 15th patch is right around the corner & supposedly “massive.” Keep sending Linsey & the staff messages letting them know this is a priority. Been almost a month with no update.