Guild Wars 2

I threw in the towel because of Anet’s constant “stealth” manipulations of the game’s economy and reward system.

They introduce ascended crafting, a huge grind no matter how you look at it, while systematically nerfing all means of earning gold in the game.

For me, the unannounced champ train nerf was the final straw.

John Smith’s explanation sounded all warm and fuzzy….but to my knowledge they have rarely if ever offered any notice or explanation when game rewards are nerfed.

The karma nerf was arguably the biggest one in terms of impact on the game….was that ever given notice or explained in a release note? If it was, my apologies. But I don’t believe it was… There have been at least a dozen threads expressing outrage at that karma nerf, and I never saw any Anet spokesman offer any insight or explanation about it at all.

I guess it’s nice of Mr. Smith to post here, but I don’t buy it. I have been watching the constant “silent” manipulations of this game for too long.

I’ve already swapped out my MMO mouse for my FPS mouse…no going back for me…..LOL.

Meh, I think this is the final straw of this game for me, at least for a while.

I don’t study the ins and outs of the game economy enough to know whether this nerf was good for the game or not. But I know it was bad for me…I was relying on the champ train to get the gold to move into the ascended crafting.

But what really has been bugging me about this game is the constant manipulation of it…Anet cannot seem to leave anything alone. IMHO, all these “stealth” changes (the ones that are never detailed in the update notes) are not done for the good of the game…they are done to generate gem sales. Period.

First they nerfed the daylights out of karma…now this…I have had enough. I think in an MMO some things have to be constants…because all of us engage in some sort of planning in terms of resource allocation and such. This is impossible with Anet changing the basic rules of the game economy every couple of weeks. I am tired of it.

Maybe all MMOs are constantly manipulated like this, I don’t know because I have never played any others. Maybe it just isn’t for me.

What this thread proves….beyond any doubt….is that some people’s true enjoyment out of this game is complaining rather than playing.

People come on here and snivel anytime there is a significant group of people who play the game different than they (the complainer) does. First there was whining about COF….then about the Arah giant farming…then the Orr champ train…now the Queensdale/Frostgorge champ trains.

I have spent my share of time in the Frostgorge train, and 99% of the issues complained about here are simply untrue in my experience. If someone has killed a champ out of sequence….the train just moves on. I have NEVER, not once, seen any abuse dished out as a result. The train barely skips a beat…it just keeps moving.

Where do the complainers get this inflated sense of self importance, that their solo desires outweigh the desires of the 30-50+ people in the train? If you want to solo the champ…DO IT! Before the champ train, NO ONE was hanging around in Frostgorge soloing champs. It was pretty much a ghost town. Now with the train, we have people like the OP whining about it because they claim they can’t go in and spend 15 or so tedious minutes soloing a champ. Without the train OP, you would not even be in Frostgorge…if you won’t admit it publicly, at least admit it to yourself. You just want something to complain about.

It’s sort of like the old curmudgeon who calls the police whenever there is a party in his neighborhood….just because he is not there….and he resents others having fun in their own way.

So good work OP! Keep whining and soon Anet will probably find a way to derail the train, and the game as a whole will further suffer from yet another nerf to an income source. But, you will find deep inner vindication that you took away the fun from a large group of people who were doing NOTHING to negatively impact your gaming experience, and that is clearly what is really important to you.

If I wasn’t too lazy to search, I bet the OP could be found on the record complaining in the past about COF and god knows what else.

I agree most of the landscapes are interesting and well done…

But some of the built up areas are freakin’ awesome! Next time you are in Lion’s Arch take time to look at the architecture…the details. It really is a beautiful place. I wish somewhere like that existed in the real world.

Also, Divinity’s Reach is awe inspiring from an architectural standpoint. Imagine an actual city like that!

I agree there is too much bloodstone dust…but that is not the problem.

The problem is that Anet feels the need to throw unannounced changes into the game that completely upset the economy and resource allocation of the game.
A short time ago everyone was swimming in karma and was not sure what to do with it. With some unannounced reprogramming, suddenly it is precious and virtually impossible to get in adequate quantities for many purposes,,,ie,,,legendary weapons.

I mention this, because it applies to the bloodstone dust issue. People who don’t need the amount they have (practically all of us ATM) are afraid to just delete it. We are afraid to delete it because we don’t know when/if Anet is going to pull some unannounced BS to manipulate the game’s economy (again) and nerf it into the ground.

So I have like 10K bloodstone dust…afraid to get rid of any of it…because Anet keeps changing the basic rules of the game…

It is definitely in the nature of forums like this to tend to be negative. When people are happy they play the game and remain silent. They only tend to speak up (or post) when kitten ed off.

GW2 is the first MMO game I have played, so I am a bit lacking in perspective as to whether we are “spoiled”.

Someone earlier in this thread said that there is not a single legitimate complaint in this forum. Seriously? That comment is ridiculous…

My only complaint “theme” is regarding the constant changes Anet makes that I do not believe are aimed at improving gameplay….but rather to improve the long term profitability of the game. You can always identify these sorts of changes, because they are never announced or explained…they just happen. Then, no matter how much complaining takes place, Anet will never comment on the changes or why they were made. The recent karma nerf is a perfect example. Players participate in the game for months with a basic understanding what efforts earn what reward within the game, and how best to allocate the resources they earn. Then Anet yanks out the rug…without warning or comment…and changes the basic dynamics of the game. No one can possibly believe that sort of thing makes the game better from a player standpoint, and it is a given that it will kitten players off.

Anet certainly needs (and deserves) to make money off the game, and if these sorts of changes accomplish that I am sure they will continue. But I don’t think it is the best way of doing business…and I am getting tired of it. When I have had enough and move on to another game, it will be because of Anet’s constant covert attempts to manipulate us and the way we play the game.

But I don’t know if we are “spoiled” here. Maybe this sort of thing takes place in other MMOs to an even greater extent. I wouldn’t know.

Palador.2170:

I think the real issue here is that some KB hits are a bit better than auto attacks, and most of the time they DON’T send the Champion flying. So it’s easy to fall into the habit of trying to use them every time they’re ready, and then they get caught off guard when it actually works. Good intent, with rare cases of bad results.

That actually makes a lot of sense, and matches what I have seen. On boss/champ fights most of the time a KB won’t do anything. As others have said, they are probably just spamming all their skills when suddenly the champ goes flying…and they think “hope no one knows that was me…..”…lol.

Thanks for the input all. I’ll go take my meds now.

Someone help me out with this…

You’re in a large zerg battling a champ. Banners are in place…100 blades are whirring…buffs are stacking to awesome levels…champ is wilting rapidly under the awesome machine hacking it down…

Then, someone uses a knockback or pull and kittens EVERYTHING up. Champ goes flying, grateful for the reprieve. Zerg has to regroup…out of range of banners…basically everything is screwed up.

Now my question. Are the people who do this so ignorant of game mechanics that they don’t understand what they are doing?

OR…is it a troll move from those who enjoy the feeling of power they get from messing up the program for everyone else?

Thanks for indulging my rant.

The karma situation basically shuts down some parts of the game. Getting a legendary is now pretty much impossible, unless you had a large stockpile of karma prior to the nerf.

While fractals may still give decent karma, I don’t consider it an answer. We all know the hassles of putting together a functioning group to run dungeons…sometimes it is next to impossible to do.

I wonder if Lexandro’s theory is correct, that karma was nerfed to slow the acquisition of ascended weapons? When Anet makes major game changes like this, without a word of explanation, I always assume it is not an attempt to improve the game from the player’s point of view, but an attempt to maximize profit from gem sales.

So lets give it a few weeks, when everyone is completely karma starved, and see if a “workaround” miraculously appears that can be purchased from the gem store. Something must have driven this nerf, because it makes no sense whatsoever from a gameplay standpoint.

These karma threads seem to keep getting deleted. Lets see if this one lasts…

I guess this is a bit of a tangent, but the “infusions” for ascended gear have to be the biggest drain of resources for the least benefit in the entire game.

If you buy everything they cost like 40 gold to make….for a meaningless buff….unless you are doing Fractals.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

It’s to keep you from having like 80 billion empyreal by the time you are level 80, which doesn’t really work since you will pretty much have 80 billion empyreal all the time anyway.

Really?

I am looking for empyreal all I can, and it is accumulating painfully slowly.

What’s your secret? Or are you confusing it with bloodstone dust? I have that stuff coming out my kitten ….

I just posted in a similar thread that has magically disappeared….

Wonder how long this thread will last?

The difference between the WP there is now, and running back (the old way) is maybe 30 seconds. Is this really worth a complaint thread? I agree it is a huge improvement that people can now do the JP without tying up a WVW slot.

As far as the loot at the end of the JP…it has always sucked….unless you want badges….

I wonder if these Legendary “accessories” will involve a grind similar to what is required for Legendary weapons? If so, that would be insanity. Imagine going through all that to get…an earring….

I dunno…I hate to be negative but I kind of have a bad feeling about their plan. The ascended items already involve (IMHO) a pretty insane grind (because of the required fragments)…more so than many people will be willing to do.

With the number of available Legendary/Ascended items only increasing…by vast numbers….how can the game help but become an endless gold/material grind as people strive to acquire competitive gear?

Legendary items used to be only skins….not true anymore.

Guys…I don’t disagree with most of what has been said here, but a dose of reality:

Ascended stats will never be dialed back to exotic levels. Think about it. Probably at least half the player base has been working toward at least one ascended weapon. Of that number, probably half have already obtained one, or are very close.

Now, after they expended all that time, gold, and hassle….can you imagine the widespread rage if the weapons were nerfed back to exotic levels? Riteous rage, IMHO.

No way that will ever happen.

Even if I don’t agree with them, I can at least “see both sides” to a lot of the manipulations Anet has done to the game…

But this karma nerf was ridiculous. I have no idea what they were thinking. Are we supposed to do dailies and monthlies just for laurels?

TheJokester.4672:

Daywolf.2630:

Well, all I know, I have yet to “try” for a legendary and have even sold many of those mats, while I have 8-80’s (all classes), representing all races, 2 commander tags, avg 2.5 full sets of gear and weapons per character, 1/2 t2/t3 transmuted cultural, master crafter, personal story twice. Most guilds I’ve been in, majority of players are farming alone and doing solo world map completion with one or two characters built for after legendary mats/gold. I don’t knooow…. /me shrugs

Not trying to be rude honest but it took me 7 months to make my twilight yea it was a lot of grind and no i didn’t run the norm I prefered knights or soldiers to berserkers and have 6 lvl 80’s out of 11 characters 4 100% maps just started WvW on my main warrior also has my twilight only 32 WvW rank don’t have dungeon master because I only ran the dungeons I needed for my legendary or particular armor skin I wanted 1 commander tag 5 t3 sets of armor 2 fully ascended characters 2 others half ascended with full ascended for an upcomming tengu guardian when they get release because my t3 commander human is just too common granted tengu prob will be too but oh well 7 of my 11 characters are human I want something different I am far from a good player but I am better than some I’ve come in and guided pugs that had been in arah for 5 hours just trying to beat lupi explained and didn’t do like you prob get downed ur dead I would immediately rez you may not think it but if your team actually stays up in that fight they learn rather fast and start understanding the fight + gives u more targets that are not yourself and more dmg to get him to the next phase faster just putting that out there. I’ve given away 900 or so ecto 1 precursor 3 stacks of t6 materials so I think I’ve done better than you since I gave rather than sold I’m not counting lodestones

Dude!

I just wanted to say …sentences…..commas….paragraphs. Punctuate!

That post made my brain hurt…

To the OP:

Why would you even make this thread? Do you have any idea how obnoxious it is? Only on the internet do you see this sort of logic…

Here’s how I see it. For whatever reason you decided that you do not want to bother making a legendary. Which is fine, I’m sure making them is an expensive/time consuming PITA.

But this being the internet, instead of being confident and at peace with your decision, you have to drag those who do have legendary weapons through the mud. Does a legendary weapon mean a given player is more likely to be skilled or unskilled player? How the kitten should I know? You don’t know either, and your reasoning is some of the weakest, most convoluted logic I have ever read.

Most likely, the weapon carried by a given player has no relation whatsoever to how skilled they are at playing the game. And who cares? Lousy players have every right to play the game. I welcome them. In general a lousy player is more likely to have their life (in REAL life) priorities in order than someone who is fantastic at a computer game. Think about it for a minute and you might see what I mean.

One thing I know for sure, this thread is about YOU, not about those with legendaries.

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

A little over a week after the change and I’m sitting at 100k karma from just world bosses and a few pre associated with them, and some non-farm WvW. I don’t think the nerf is as bad as you are all making it out to be.

That’s great, it really is. But simple arithmetic tells us …if that is true, you must play a lot.

Apologies if you all know this (you probably do), but I just noticed today that they even nerfed the karma from the “heart” events you do to clear a map. I was wasting time today clearing maps with an alt, and noticed the heart events only brought in roughly 200 karma. Didn’t they used to be around 4X that amount?

The more I ponder this sort of game manipulation from Anet, the more it steams me. If these game breaking changes are really a good faith effort to improve the game, why can’t Anet provide some insight into their reasoning? I am certain they have read every word in this thread.

I returned to Skyrim today for the first time in over a year….looking at buying the expansion for it…

I have a couple of thoughts…

Anyone who has a legendary will tell you…with the current available karma output, getting a legendary will be all but impossible. Well…not completely impossible, but the amount of grind involved would be absolutely mind numbing…far more misery than 99% would endure. I have a legendary, and nearly all the million plus karma that took came from dungeons, dailies, and monthlies. With the sources available now, I would not even start because I know I would burn out looong before I got there.

Could that be Anet’s goal? Fewer legendaries? Seems senseless but obby shards are really the only thing for which karma was essential…

My other thought….why does Anet almost never address questions like the OP posted in this thread? An Anet rep will weigh in on the most trivial threads, but questions like this one….that I KNOW a lot of players would like some perspective on…will almost certainly be ignored.

At the end of the day, obby shards are really the only good use for karma. But if you don’t have a stockpile of Karma, or are a new player, how will it even be possible to get a legendary now? Without daily karma, or karma from dungeons, the1 mil + karma needed for a legendary weapon would be a brutal grind…almost undoable.

So I too don’t understand the reason for this nerf. Unless they are introducing a new way to get obby shards…this will result in a seriously broken game IMHO.

Gold from dungeons was only really viable IMHO when the COF P1 train was running. Unless you have a large list of friends who can do a dungeon run whenever you want…PUGs are a pain to setup. Plus as often as not you wind up with inexperienced players and the run turns into a 2 hour life-sucking experience…nowhere near worth the gold earned.

To bad Clockwork Chaos ended. By far the best farming the game has ever had IMHO.

BTW, what did they do to nerf COF P1? I haven’t run it in a while.

The fix is simple….simply give everyone who asks for it the rewards for the monthly…laurels, karma, etc.

Then if they chose to they can complete the monthly again for double reward…like those who timed it correctly have already done.

I think Anet is making a HUGE mistake just blowing this off. It is really going to kitten a lot of people off. The only reason I got my categories done so quickly was because of the Clockwork Chaos events. Since they are now over….I have to do that tedious crap allll over again?

I have always hated monthlies….now I get to do them twice. All I had to do to complete them was today’s daily….that was it.

Anet….you don’t want to just kiss this off. Trust me.

My “problem” is a bit different.

I had three of the monthly categories completed….but with the patch it removed the “Group Event” category and the “Champions Killed” category. So now I only have “Monthly Events” completed…and it says I need to do three more categories.

I guess this isn’t the end of the world…but I find monthlies kind of tedious and I’m not all that eager to do it all again….after having it all basically completed.

Anet…..is this going to be corrected?

I don’t so much mind them introducing Ascended gear. I have been using the same exotics for a long time (with a very few Ascended trinkets), and don’t mind working toward something else.

My gripe with the current setup is that the only realistic way to get ascended items is to run fractals. I mean, I know you can buy them with laurels (I have)…but that is slow going to say the least.

So if they introduce Ascended gear and weapons that can be crafted, traded on the TP, obtained in dungeons or open world drops, etc…I am not really against it.

I do see the point of those who are against it though….

Until I read this thread, I truly had no idea the lengths to which some players go to obtain a color coordinated “look” for a character. I guess it’s all about what we enjoy…

As for the OP’s Charr….I dunno… The outfit looks like what Liberace used to perform in… Or if Liberace got married, that’s what he would have worn!

Actually I would like to concoct an outfit like that just to hang around Lion’s Arch and draw comments/hate. It is sort of hilarious if you stop to think about it.

Thanks guys, you rock. It is indeed not an MF recipe.

Dante.1763:

the gift of Ascalon can only be used in forging legendary items, is that what you are doing?
specifically http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Gift_of_Ascalon

Yes, I am trying to put it in the with other ingredients to make “Gift of Light”. But the Gift of Ascalon doesn’t show up in my inventory when I access the Mystic Forge. But it does show up in my inventory when I look there….away from the Mystic Forge.

Kind of baffling.

Anyone have this problem?

Basically I am trying to put a Gift of Ascalon into the Mystic Forge for a sword I am working on. It is in my inventory and all that, but when using the Mystic Forge the Gift does not show up at all. The other 3 items I want to put in show up fine.

I have tried re-logging, re-booting and all that.

Anyone have any insight?

ArchonWing.9480:

Hah, this talk about abominations.

I love the one that happens when you’re trying to retake pertinent. If someone fails and just leaves the event there, it kills all the npcs and builds up frenzy to the point to instagib anyone silly enough to try to do the event.

And of course, how’s the Warmaster Chan event that isn’t labeled a group event going.?

Hahahahaha…

This got me thinking…when was the last time anyone even took on the Champ Risen Abomination that appears outside of Caer Shadowfain? On my server, he spawns..wanders around for a while…gets completely ignored by any players in the area, then eventually dies of old age.

I guess that is the hallmark of a well designed event. It is so perfect, so completely free of satisfaction/loot/entertainment….that everyone refuses to do it!

I’m glad this thread got bumped also…

I got to admit, I am really bummed that they nerfed the farming of the Arah giant event. It’s not that I farm all the time, but I really enjoy it as a mindless/relaxing activity when I have 30 minutes or so to kill. The Arah farm was very productive, and got me motivated about the game again.

Don’t get me wrong, I knew it was inevitable they would nerf it. But they have nerfed all the farm spots (that I know of) in this game, and Arah briefly provided a return of a decent farm. I don’t understand how people go around farming the Meta-events (you never make much of anything), and I am sick of the hassle and aggravation of trying to find groups for dungeons.

I find some of the temp content to be mildly interesting, but the rewards are silly. Lessee….some ghostly dragon wings….a 3-D map of a world….some crystal deposits (I haven’t found anything to do with the 300 crystals I already have)….?

So, when none of my friends want to run a dungeon or whatever, I find myself logging in, spending 10 minutes doing my daily, then not knowing what to do with the game.

I really wish each dungeon had a single player mode.

Algreg.3629:

The Stain.4169:

Algreg.3629:

The Stain.4169:

marnick.4305:

The Stain.4169:

There is no doubt that this puzzle draws the sadistic sorts who play the game. They seem to get huge pleasure from taking a position of overwhelming advantage then frustrating other players trying to do the puzzle. If this behavior was taken out of the twisted world of online gaming and applied to “real world” activities, we would think something was seriously wrong with the people who do it.

Like for example people who play paintball, knowing full well it hurts when they get hit? Or going into the bump carts at the fair? How about the stuff freshmen have to endure to get into their clubs? Kick-boxing? Kennedy March? There’s a whole range of activities based around the premise that participating can and will hurt you, the other or both.

If you go into the Obsidian Sanctum, you accept that you can and will get ganked by other players. That’s the premise, the catch, the thrill. Obviously there’s a reward to make all that worth it.

So let’s ask it again. Why do you want the World vs Kite if not for the thrill of getting it?

No.

It’s not like paintball at all. Paintball is a competitive event wherein both sides are more or less evenly matched, and have the same opportunity for offense and defense. Same with bumper cars at the fair.

Campers in OS however, assume positions of complete advantage, or in the case I mentioned use subterfuge, to “gank” other players who are completely helpless and vulnerable. Their sole pleasure is not in the challenge of what they are doing, but the satisfaction they get knowing they are frustrating/annoying other people, people who are pretty much powerless to do anything about it. Period. That, IMHO, is pretty warped.

The “hazing” you mention of fraternity/sorority applicants is actually a good analogy. That also is a sadistic form of enjoyment.

no, that is not warped, but taking advantage of your position/situation. What you do and should do in a pvp environment. I cannot see the fun in camping for hours, but you are certainly not the one to decide whether there is something wrong with them, actually, that is a reportable insult now that I think of it. But I guess real world decency isn´t that important when you imagine yourself sitting on some moralistic white horse.

Hahahaahah…reportable insult? I guess you can feel insulted if you want, and if you do then by all means “report it”. Since I was not replying to anything you said, nor mentioning you, nor mentioning any specific person whatsoever, I don’t really see it though. I guess I was characterizing a behavior though. Until this point I did not realize it was one that you engaged in. So if that offended you, I apologize.

Moralistic white horse? Meh, maybe. I guess I try to. Do you think the ’net should be free of morality? Many do, but I disagree.

If you would care to read, you would have noted I am excluded. But I guess that is asking too much of you. And the morality thing, well, figure that out yourself. Cannot say I have seen some dude not making a touch down in a game because the other team would have their feelings hurt. Your equation of altruism with an ethos in general really speaks of a very limited education in the field of philosophy btw.

Your big words are too much for me to comprehend with my limited education, so I will bow out of your part of the discussion.

dybryd.1358:

The Stain.4169:

Moralistic white horse? Meh, maybe. I guess I try to. Do you think the ’net should be free of morality? Many do, but I disagree.

Of course not.

Spirited competition is the morality of gaming. Declining to press an advantage isn’t good sportsmanship – it’s patronizing and harms the game.

Accepting defeat as a lesson in tactics and trying again with good grace – that’s good sportsmanship.

Agree with your first part.

But trying to complete the jumping puzzle while a party/guild is camping on the dome “ganking” is the historical sporting equivalent of an unarmed criminal being thrown to the gladiators. No way to win. That is why I question the motives of those who choose to engage in a “game” wherein they cannot help but win, and their opponent is certain to lose. Keep in mind I am not criticizing the general PVP nature of OS, I am criticizing the very specific ways in which some players choose to take advantage of it.

I guess the “lesson in tactics” would be to get up at zero-dark-thirty and try again when no one is there…LOL…so your point is well taken.

Algreg.3629:

The Stain.4169:

marnick.4305:

The Stain.4169:

There is no doubt that this puzzle draws the sadistic sorts who play the game. They seem to get huge pleasure from taking a position of overwhelming advantage then frustrating other players trying to do the puzzle. If this behavior was taken out of the twisted world of online gaming and applied to “real world” activities, we would think something was seriously wrong with the people who do it.

Like for example people who play paintball, knowing full well it hurts when they get hit? Or going into the bump carts at the fair? How about the stuff freshmen have to endure to get into their clubs? Kick-boxing? Kennedy March? There’s a whole range of activities based around the premise that participating can and will hurt you, the other or both.

If you go into the Obsidian Sanctum, you accept that you can and will get ganked by other players. That’s the premise, the catch, the thrill. Obviously there’s a reward to make all that worth it.

So let’s ask it again. Why do you want the World vs Kite if not for the thrill of getting it?

No.

It’s not like paintball at all. Paintball is a competitive event wherein both sides are more or less evenly matched, and have the same opportunity for offense and defense. Same with bumper cars at the fair.

Campers in OS however, assume positions of complete advantage, or in the case I mentioned use subterfuge, to “gank” other players who are completely helpless and vulnerable. Their sole pleasure is not in the challenge of what they are doing, but the satisfaction they get knowing they are frustrating/annoying other people, people who are pretty much powerless to do anything about it. Period. That, IMHO, is pretty warped.

The “hazing” you mention of fraternity/sorority applicants is actually a good analogy. That also is a sadistic form of enjoyment.

no, that is not warped, but taking advantage of your position/situation. What you do and should do in a pvp environment. I cannot see the fun in camping for hours, but you are certainly not the one to decide whether there is something wrong with them, actually, that is a reportable insult now that I think of it. But I guess real world decency isn´t that important when you imagine yourself sitting on some moralistic white horse.

Hahahaahah…reportable insult? I guess you can feel insulted if you want, and if you do then by all means “report it”. Since I was not replying to anything you said, nor mentioning you, nor mentioning any specific person whatsoever, I don’t really see it though. I guess I was characterizing a behavior though. Until this point I did not realize it was one that you engaged in. So if that offended you, I apologize.

Moralistic white horse? Meh, maybe. I guess I try to. Do you think the ’net should be free of morality? Many do, but I disagree.

marnick.4305:

The Stain.4169:

There is no doubt that this puzzle draws the sadistic sorts who play the game. They seem to get huge pleasure from taking a position of overwhelming advantage then frustrating other players trying to do the puzzle. If this behavior was taken out of the twisted world of online gaming and applied to “real world” activities, we would think something was seriously wrong with the people who do it.

Like for example people who play paintball, knowing full well it hurts when they get hit? Or going into the bump carts at the fair? How about the stuff freshmen have to endure to get into their clubs? Kick-boxing? Kennedy March? There’s a whole range of activities based around the premise that participating can and will hurt you, the other or both.

If you go into the Obsidian Sanctum, you accept that you can and will get ganked by other players. That’s the premise, the catch, the thrill. Obviously there’s a reward to make all that worth it.

So let’s ask it again. Why do you want the World vs Kite if not for the thrill of getting it?

No.

It’s not like paintball at all. Paintball is a competitive event wherein both sides are more or less evenly matched, and have the same opportunity for offense and defense. Same with bumper cars at the fair.

Campers in OS however, assume positions of complete advantage, or in the case I mentioned use subterfuge, to “gank” other players who are completely helpless and vulnerable. Their sole pleasure is not in the challenge of what they are doing, but the satisfaction they get knowing they are frustrating/annoying other people, people who are pretty much powerless to do anything about it. Period. That, IMHO, is pretty warped.

The “hazing” you mention of fraternity/sorority applicants is actually a good analogy. That also is a sadistic form of enjoyment.

I’m not saying the format of OS should be changed. It is what it is, and I would find it boring if it was changed. I am saying that I think the people who spend hours camping the top of the dome “ganking” other players have something wrong with them, that’s all. Really, they are just another form of on-line troll. Think about it before you respond.

To OP:

Back on point. You can finish the puzzle, don’t get discouraged. I have done it dozens of times (badges for legendary) and I suck at PVP. I also agree with you, when enemies are camping the choke points (top of the well/top of the dome) it is impractical to try to take them on, even with a large group. I’m not saying impossible, just impractical.

Try it at different times. Before you leap off the platform at the portal watch the puzzle map a bit. Look for allies from your server, or conflict symbols indicating fighting going on. This will give you an idea how much trouble you can expect.

But honestly if things look reasonably clear just jump off and go for it. Even when encountering enemies, probably 2/3 of them are there for the same reason as you and will leave you alone. When you get decent at the puzzle (practice) it is no big deal at all even if campers kill you, because you can do it in just 5 minutes or so anyway. If you are going to get ambushed it will usually be either right at the beginning, or when you enter the room under the dome.

There is no doubt that this puzzle draws the sadistic sorts who play the game. They seem to get huge pleasure from taking a position of overwhelming advantage then frustrating other players trying to do the puzzle. If this behavior was taken out of the twisted world of online gaming and applied to “real world” activities, we would think something was seriously wrong with the people who do it.

I was in a group with a guildie once and we were doing the puzzle. This guy would wave or bow to enemy players in the puzzle, indicating he was being “peaceful”. Then he would shadow them until they got to a vulnerable location, and either kill them or knock them off one of the critical points. Then he would laugh hysterically. I get the feeling many here will disagree, but I think there was something seriously wrong with this guy. After this experience with him I shunned him and never play with him any more. Just seeing what he was doing and having to listen to him really was irritating. And there are lots like him I’m afraid.

machine.2859:

ok, that still does not change the fact, its exploitation. Anet knows this and is dealing with so much because of players taking advantage like this.

Basically you can consider yourself and all those who do the same an indirect cause to all the nerfs and changes being made wether you like to admit it or not, its the truth.

Eventually it will probably be fixed somehow but by that time the exploiters have gotten what they need.

I personally feel that those who do this should be delt with by either temporary bans to give them the chance to play as intended or eventually get banned for good.

Plan and Simple:

PLAY THE GAME AS INTENDED OR DON’T PLAY AT ALL!

You can throw around the term “exploiting” and “play as intended” all you like. It means nothing really, because it is obvious what you are really saying is “play the way I want you to play to maximize my gaming experience.”

That’s what kills me about people who play this game…we could really use more of a “live and let live” philosophy.

If you come to do the Arah event and people are farming the giant, do what you have to do. Kill the giant. People might gripe at you, but they have no right to do so. Just the same as you have no right to complain about other people farming or doing whatever you don’t like.

I guess what I am saying is, if players would mind their own business, and only gripe about things that genuinely affect their gameplay in a negative manner, things would be a lot better. I guess then there would not be many posts on this forum though…

Moot for this event anyway. I’m sure the clock is ticking until a nerf. After which point neither the farming nor the event will be any good.

So good job, complainers!

To OP…..Well:

I have played this game quite a lot, and what you describe has never happened to me. Ever.

I cannot think of too many places where it could happen…maybe in some of the dungeons I guess. But in a dungeon everyone should be in the same party…and on the same page…so I don’t really see how it could happen there either.

In GW2, nothing really chases you very far. They run back to their “hangout” and reset.

I guess I am trying to say I have never experienced what you are complaining about, so I have trouble seeing your point.

Also, making an opinion post and adding text at the bottom about what sorts of responses you deem to be “acceptable” is an exercise in futility. It will cause you nothing but grief. Sorry, but that’s the truth.

Poledo.3256:

colesy.8490:

You’ll never get those people who are complete carebears to play WvW. PvE is like a little sandbox where nothing bad happens and if you “fail” then every failure is under controlled conditions so it’s easy to fix. WvW, well you can basically have your entire map taken if your server doesn’t make the effort or have the manpower.

And to be perfectly honest, I’d rather not have PvE farmers coming along to WvW taking up spaces, especially during prime time.

This guy right here.

After reading this, I am definitely scared now to play WVW. Clearly WVW players (at least these two) have faced danger and spit in its eye. They have confronted the risk of having “their entire map taken” (shudder, the horror!), and no doubt prevailed while covering themselves with glory!. These tough, battle hardened WVW veterans are clearly way outta my gaming league…I’m glad they have made me understand that….

I’m hangin with the “care-bears”. The dangerous realm of WVW needs to be staffed by those made of sterner stuff than me. But allow me to say to the WVW heros: Thank you for your service!

I have dabbled in WVW, I like the concept, but the reality is boring.

If your server happens to have a lot of people involved in WVW when you are playing, you run around as an unstoppable mob, destroying everything in your path. No skill or tactics needed. Boring.

If , on the other hand, your server is underrepresented, there is little you can do. You can sneak and hide for a bit, but you can’t do much else and an kitten -kicking is always just around the corner. Pointless and boring.

Its all about numbers, basically…and there is little you can do about it.

I agree with the other posters, that there is really nothing that can be done about it. Most of the measures to mitigate this sort of problem fall into the “cure is worse than the disease” category IMHO.

Sadly, it is human nature. There are a significant percentage of people whose only sense of morality or ethical behavior is measured by what they can get away with. Since there is zero accountability on the ’net, and they can get away with anything, these people behave accordingly. I suspect most of the people who do these sorts of things are also young and very immature.

I wish I knew what Anet was trying to accomplish in Cursed Shore…

As I see it, over the past several months we saw a series of nerfs. Lots of champs with mega hit points, vet spiders that dropped no loot, etc. Then they drove a stake through its heart with a massive increase in the time lag between events spawning.

Then, about 2 or 3 weeks ago things picked up for a while. Events spawned regularly and the impossibly tough/no loot mobs spawned very rarely. It became a good place to hang out again.

Now, as in the past few days, it seems to be back to having the huge delays between events. And it is again more or less a ghost town. I have no idea what the motivation is for the constant changes, but it almost seems like Anet is trying to annoy people and kill the game.

Kain Francois.4328:

Bombs, Flamethrower, and Tool-Kit. Most of Rifle’s abilities are close-range based as well.

I’ve actually read most engineer complaints are about the lack of viable RANGED options, and not melee. Nades are a pain to target, Pistol autoattack is a joke, Elixir Gun is condition-based, and rifle autoattack just doesn’t do much special.

Also, who actually runs an engineer in serious PvE play without a kit?

If well traited out for firearms, Engineer is deadly with a rifle. Mine has 58% crit, and crits with a rifle are typically 1500-2000 damage each shot. I think that is pretty good for a ranged attack. Combined with the net shot and rifle knockback, you can usually keep enemies at range until they are either dead or nearly dead. Of course this is useless for mobs….but then we have nades or the flamethrower….

I think engineers are consistently under-rated.

Chessrook.8643:

You think that’s something, wait until Orr where there’s at least one spot where a champ guards a Skill Point…

Hahahaah…you gotta be talking about the Champion Risen Baron/Baroness in Cursed Shore. I cannot believe what a handful he/she is, particularly since it looks like a standard “risen”.

I hang out a lot in Cursed Shore, and I used to frequently see 4-6 players go to take this champion on…and within about 20 seconds there are 4-6 “downed player” icons on the map. I just run away….not only is it a difficult champion, once you have the skill point there is really nothing to be gained by taking him/her down.

I think people are starting to get the message recently though…I rarely see anyone even try it these days.

SandruDaniel.4386:

Nice talk guys There are many great guilds. But most have a bossy “Commander” that tells you what to do, and where to go even if your not in www. And there are guilds that have other mini-guilds in them, if I can call them like that. They play in friend groups, like 3-4. A friend of mine told me that she is in a guild like that, everyone is with their “friends” doing dungeons with the experts! I consider myself to have a very strong knowledge and ability in PVE but when I hear about small elite dungeon parties….all people can make mistakes, once I was in Ascalon catacombs and after failing the burrows like 2 times, a guy left saying we are idiots….Or in another dungeon if I use all signets a guy didn’t want to do another run with me because I use all warrior signets. So what? Is how I play, I don’t mind if he uses signets or something else. I know support skills are better in dungeons but still if the player is used with something he may fail even worse if you force him to play the way you want. The game almoust doesn’t need parties outside dungeons because there are almoust always people around you to help,give and take buffs. Is named Guild Wars 2 but guilds are not a must by far. Are a must in WwW I give you that. Played in many mmos.had some great guilds, met great people, never will forget them! Met a lot of cool people here to in guilds I’ve been in. Hope Anet has plans to encourage people to get in guilds more

I have had soooo many bad experiences with other players in dungeons….

You can see it coming….lots of times if you are in a group that is struggling a bit there will be one member in the group who is constantly pointing fingers. Not offering suggestions, not accepting any responsibility, just blaming others that the group is not doing well. After a couple of fails or wipes, this type of player usually rage quits. By then the whole “vibe” of the group is so disrupted that the rest quit also.

If you can get into a group of “guildies”, using voice chat, there is usually a bit less anomynity and thus those in the party with anger control issues will generally behave better. That is one advantage to a guild group over a PUG.

But as I said in an earlier post…I can rarely scrape together a group from my guild to run a dungeon…so it is kind of moot.

Some people claim the flamethrower is a good melee weapon….and I sort of disagree. The flamethrower is really good only for targets at “just beyond” melee range. If you try to use it on enemies right in your face you will see that you get lots and lots of “miss” indicators. I think these limitations were intentionally designed into the flamethrower because it would be massively OP if they weren’t.

I have used engineer a lot, and for melee I have settled on using grenades thrown down right at my feet. Reasonably effective, but there is no doubt the engineer is best as a ranged player.

I usually play alone. Unless I want to do a dungeon. But even then I can rarely find guild members to make a group with…so I wind up in PUGs from god-knows-where.

This is usually a game that I sit down and play for 30-45 minutes at a time when I have some time to kill. My schedule does not usually fit in with the scheduled events in my guild….and I am not committed enough to the game to change my plans to fit the guild schedule.

The chat in my guild is very often made up primarily of caustic complaining. There are even occasionally trolls in guild chat who spam with endless postings calculated to annoy the others in the guild. In addition to all this, I am not fast enough in “chat” to both play the game and stay on top of a chat conversation (I don’t know how players manage to do this…chat during a boss fight or whatever). So I am not too involved in the guild “social” scene.

Because of all this, my guild has not added much to my gaming experience, unfortunately.

I am a bit surprised by this forum…

Everyone here, including myself, is very quick to come here and post the slightest or most subjective complaint about GW2….

Yet one of the most contentious points that has been brought up…the complete nerfing of the farming events in Orr…has as far as I can tell in the past few days been completely reversed by Anet. The events in Orr now spawn regularly, the overdose of champions etc has been removed, and as far as I can tell things are back to where they were a few months ago.

Yet unless I missed it (I might have, as this forum scrolls rapidly), not one person has come on here and made the slightest positive comment about it. Apparently people are only motivated to post when there is a kitten about the game.

I’m sure I am not the only one who has noticed….

So I will say it: “Anet, I have noticed. Thank You!”