Guild Wars 2

Geotherma.2395:

Wirldwide.8046:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

I can’t imagine this would be allowed in any AAA MMO. Can you imagine competitive PvP where you could have someone with 3 toons all attack you in perfect sync, no one would ever stand a chance. No game could ever have any sort of PvP without removing this.

All AAA MMO’s allow this. And the reason is because you’re not looking at it as if it’s 3 players against 1. You’re looking at it as if it’s 1 player against 1. The MMO vendors are smart in that they recognize it’s 3 slots of a battle being taken up going against 1 slot.

You are absolutely correct (all things being equal as far as gear, location of the players to each other, etc) that 1 player would die to 3 players. That exists in all MMOs ever made. So why state that no one would ever stand a chance? The reason you’re stating that is because you’re looking at it wrong, you’re not considering that the multi-boxer takes up 3 slots of game play just as 3 players would.

WoW (Accepted)
Aion (Bannable)
GW2 (Bannable)
FFXI/FFXIV (Can’t find definitive info)
Immortal Night (Bannable)
Runescape (Bannable)
Eve (Think Bannable)
Neverwinter Nights (Think Bannable)

Whether allowed or not, most if not all of these still do not allow you to actually use software to control both accounts at once. The ones who do allow m.b still ban 3rd party software that controls 2 at once. I noticed someones used “Most MMO’s”, but I find that to be very inaccurate. It leans towards a grey area of botting, Arenanet is very black and white about just about every legal aspect of the game.

Either way, GW2 is not those other games. Follow the rules or don’t, its your $60.

Please if you are going to post here, post accurate information. All of the games you posted allow multi-boxing including Guild Wars 2. On the issue of not allowing one key to go to more than one account, this is an accurate list:

WoW (Accepted)
Aion (Accepted)
GW2 (Bannable)
FFXI/FFXIV (Accepted)
Immortal Night (Accepted)
Runescape (Accepted)
Eve (Accepted)
Neverwinter (Accepted)

JustTrogdor.7892:

Wirldwide.8046:

I play 12 Guild Wars 2 accounts …

All the lack of follow function and rule in place to stop sending one key press to many accounts does is stops the game from making more sales.

But you have 12 accounts so obviously they have gotten some sales from you.

One thing you have not done to reinforce your argument is to explain exactly why you want to use this function. How do you plan to benefit from it and enhance your game experience? Do you want to just be able to run maps with yourself? Do you want to farm resource nodes with your accounts at the same place at the same time to get multiple drops then transfer them to your main? Why are you so adamant about being able to do this? Please tell us how keybinding your now 12 accounts will make your game more fun and enhance the gaming experience with your fellow gamers?

I bought 12 accounts because ArenaNet never made any statements about whether or not they were going to add a /follow command or not prior to the games release or when the game was available in pre-purchase. There was also no statement made in terms of multi-boxing the game then. Had I known about this rule then, I wouldn’t have bothered with this game.

I want to be able to do what everyone that plays MMOs does. Boast about what I’ve accomplished. That’s the purpose for how I play just as everyone that I’ve ever seen play an MMO do. If you check your guild chat, map chat, /say, people are always boasting about what they’ve done. From the items they’ve found in the game, the achievements they’ve made, the titles they have, everyone likes to let everyone know how well they’ve done what they did.

Whether or not ArenaNet makes any changes or not, I can still claim I’m the only player that ever multiboxed Guild Wars 2 with more than 10 characters

By having one key go to all 12 accounts, it will make the world vs world battle much more balanced in terms of playing against 12 players. It will give the chance at combat when meeting with 12 players about a 50/50 chance. If the 12 players have siege, it will drop my chances significantly, but with a /follow command in the game, I can just leave the area fast without any incurring damage and I’ll have to wait for more reinforcements. In terms of the zerg, it won’t make that much of a difference unless I see the zerg coming from a distance and get the heck out of the way fast.

I enjoy PvP, but not with a 10% win ratio against the same number of players as I have characters.

earthwormjim.5914:

Wirldwide.8046:

Lorgus.6148:

I think Wirldwide is the only person dense enough to think that its okay for one person to perform actions on multiple accounts at the same time without it being qualified as botting. As others have said, suck it up and stop bringing this trash to the forums.

Once again, please do not bring in the discussion about botting here. That’s not what this discussion is about.

That’s actually exactly what this is about, you’re just trying to put a different spin on it., a different label. You say other games allow this, but no legitimate AAA title would even consider allowing this.

Once again, this message thread is about Multi-boxing which has nothing to do with botting. Please read the rules on multi-boxing in the link provided in the original post for a description of the subject of this message thread.

Casualist.1052:

Wirldwide.8046:

Azure Prower.8701:

1 vs 5. Yes that one player is going to die no matter the situation.

But why should one person have the power of 5 players at their disposal?

Here’s an example of multiboxing getting out of hand:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFAyOAcVjvs

Let’s stay with this topic for a bit. Because this is a very good example. Thank you for posting a video of me playing WoW with 15 accounts….

You were in one battleground with me and in the video, your side lost. Right? How many Alterac Valley battles have I had? I’ll give you the answer: Thousands. More than anyone that I know of. My side has lost more Alterac Valley battles than won. Check the stats for any of the characters if you don’t believe me or I can provide you the links on request for the stats.

Losing more battles than won in a game that has a /follow command and allows a single key press to go to all clients. The point here is that with these two in place, the win/loss ratio is roughly about 50/50. You just happened to be in a game where your side lost. But you make it huge deal and give everyone the impression that you will lose 100% of the time only because you met me once in battle and lost. Your 50% loss was during that video. That battleground has many factors to it that determine who wins and who loses. The most important being where player numbers meet on the battleground. I was playing 15 in that battle. If all 40 of the opponents met me, I would have been wiped out easily. That didn’t happen. I met numbers of 5 to 10 or 12 in combat. Watch the video closely and you’ll see that’s true. Our side won only because the combat luck was on our side during that battle. Your side lost because of “luck” of a coin where heads fell and you called tails.

Imagine if that battle of my 15 characters had no /follow command and I couldn’t press one key to go to all 15 characters. Your side would win 90% of the time. I’d have no chance meeting 15 players and probably would have no chance if I met 5 to 10 players in the battle.

Playing 15 characters with no /follow command and no ability to press one key to go to all 15 characters would still defeat one player almost all of the time, unless the one player were using siege and there was no way to take out the siege because of positioning.

Wirldwide, to be serious here, I don’t think it’s a fair point to make that Multiboxing is okay because you’re not so good at it that it’s gamebreaking. The same thing for goes for being an “ethical” multiboxer who won’t do it to exploit farming nodes. People will be evil, and people will be godlike at buying hardware and controlling multiple things at once. We’re just lucky that we don’t have any multiboxers from hell yet (but who’s to say we won’t ever?). I think that’s why this rule exists.

Once again, please don’t post here if you are not on topic. This message thread is not a discussion on farming nodes.

Casualist.1052:

Well let’s examine your example.

Small amount of clicks + US Dollars (in A Net’s posession) = Gold
Huge amount of clicks = Gold

How is this unfair?

I mean the game wouldn’t exist if the company can’t even pay their bills… I’m a little lost here.

Also note that you’re comparing two completely different methods of obtaining gold, while in a multiboxers case, he’s obtaining gold in the same method, just 12 times as frequently (assuming he is insanely good at doing what he does + good hardware)

Please post things that are relevant to this discussion. This message thread is not intended to discuss making gold or gems. Please make a different message thread for discussing that.

Casualist.1052:

I don’t have an opinion that matters, you’re right. A Net does though however, and thankfully they understand that every player should play the game on the same even level (I spend 1 keystroke to gain 1 in-game action ratio). Supporting gem sales is an entirely different point, you’re comparing apples to oranges.

“But by just clicking a bunch more times you never have to spend any real life money on the game!”

Wirldwide.8046:

It’s the same regardless, however if the multiboxer goes up against 5 players with his 5 characters with the rule and no follow means the multiboxer will die about 90% of the time making it completely unfair in terms of slots taken up in battle.

You’ll die 90% of the time because you’re not as good as a multiboxer from hell who has better hardware, and does it more efficiently than you do.

Please post in this message thread things that are relevant to this discussion.

Azure Prower.8701:

1 vs 5. Yes that one player is going to die no matter the situation.

But why should one person have the power of 5 players at their disposal?

Here’s an example of multiboxing getting out of hand:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFAyOAcVjvs

Let’s stay with this topic for a bit. Because this is a very good example. Thank you for posting a video of me playing WoW with 15 accounts….

You were in one battleground with me and in the video, your side lost. Right? How many Alterac Valley battles have I had? I’ll give you the answer: Thousands. More than anyone that I know of. My side has lost more Alterac Valley battles than won. Check the stats for any of the characters if you don’t believe me or I can provide you the links on request for the stats.

Losing more battles than won in a game that has a /follow command and allows a single key press to go to all clients. The point here is that with these two in place, the win/loss ratio is roughly about 50/50. You just happened to be in a game where your side lost. But you make it huge deal and give everyone the impression that you will lose 100% of the time only because you met me once in battle and lost. Your 50% loss was during that video. That battleground has many factors to it that determine who wins and who loses. The most important being where player numbers meet on the battleground. I was playing 15 in that battle. If all 40 of the opponents met me, I would have been wiped out easily. That didn’t happen. I met numbers of 5 to 10 or 12 in combat. Watch the video closely and you’ll see that’s true. Our side won only because the combat luck was on our side during that battle. Your side lost because of “luck” of a coin where heads fell and you called tails.

Imagine if that battle of my 15 characters had no /follow command and I couldn’t press one key to go to all 15 characters. Your side would win 90% of the time. I’d have no chance meeting 15 players and probably would have no chance if I met 5 to 10 players in the battle.

Playing 15 characters with no /follow command and no ability to press one key to go to all 15 characters would still defeat one player almost all of the time, unless the one player were using siege and there was no way to take out the siege because of positioning.

bigtime.7410:

^^^

Uh yeah we get whats going on… more accounts get you more things… 12x more mats but they also spend 12x more money on accounts so… you should be able to excuse it like you excuse gem buyers… with whatever current reason you guys excuse gem sales with, to pay for water or food for starving employees or supporting the game, whatever.. take your pic, so why cant you use that same excuse for multiboxers, and say they’re helping starving employees, or supporting the game for new content with their extra box purchases, so they should be allowed to have that advantage? We give gem buyers an advantage without question, why not multiboxers?

Please do not discuss illegal activities here. This message thread is not meant for such discussion.

Casualist.1052:

Read my updated post. It’s important to realize how paying A Net money is an entirely different method of gaining gold. Having 11 other signals generated for you by 3rd party software is using the same method (playing the game) but with a potential of theoretically gaining 12 times the result.

This is as incorrect statement if you’re talking about multiboxing. Once again we’re not talking about automation (botting) so I’m going to have to assume that you mean sending the same key press to all 12 accounts.

If we’re talking about sending the same key press to all 12 accounts, the key doesn’t go to one account then get sent to 11 others. It doesn’t work like that. If it was allowed, the software that sends the keystrokes is not “playing the game” for you. All activity is done by the player at the keyboard and mouse. Every single action was the result of a player pressing a key or using the mouse. The keys pressed were not decided by a software program. If the player stops using the keyboard and mouse, all activity stops on all characters just like when a user playing one character would stop. In multi-boxing, a player must be at the keyboard and mouse in order for anything to happen. That’s why it’s allowed. There is no software playing the game for you, a player is playing the game and making decisions on which skills to use, where to move, what to do. It’s a player doing those actions.

Azure Prower.8701:

1 vs 5. Yes that one player is going to die no matter the situation.

But why should one person have the power of 5 players at their disposal?

We were actually discussing three, but we can change to five, no problem.

In terms of a multiboxer playing 5 accounts, the one person would have the power of 5 slots of game play. It’s the equivalent of 5 slots in the battle in PvP. There is a queue remember? So by allowing multi-boxing but stating that each account must have its own key press is severely crippling the side that has the multi-boxer. Add to that there is no follow command so each account must be directed to move in the same direction in order to keep the characters together. You are forgetting that 5 slots of the battle are being taken up. It’s not one person has the power of 5 players, it’s 5 slots.

To answer your question, for more copies of the game sold and to allow more styles of game play and further game play options. In essence, the MMO genre continues to evolve and grow instead of shrink. No one likes being ganked by 5 players, just like no one likes being ganked by a 5 multiboxer. It’s the same regardless, however if the multiboxer goes up against 5 players with his 5 characters with the rule and no follow means the multiboxer will die about 90% of the time making it completely unfair in terms of slots taken up in battle.

Tinboy.7954:

There is multi-boxing and then there is multi-boxing with macros. Basically, all it is stating is that multi-boxing with macros is not allowed; this is basically “no third party software allowed” in other MMO terms. All Anet did was spell it out for you people.

If you’re going to post here, I would suggest you do your homework first. Understanding the terms of what is posted here is key to providing a response that is accurate.

1. No MMO user agreement states you can’t use any third party software. None of them state that! They always state you can’t use third party software to do XXXX. They can’t state that you can’t use any third party software because Direct X is third party software from Microsoft that is used in just about all windows games. So they always place some verbage along with that statement. However a lot of people interpret it incorrectly and think that you can’t use any third party software which is not true.

2. Stating no macros are allowed is different from stating that key presses can go to all accounts or not. One key press going to one account or many accounts has nothing to do with macros.

3. Stating that ArenaNet spelled it out and other gaming companies did not is also incorrect.

As mentioned many times already in this message thread, this is not about automation. Automation is against the rules of all MMOs today.

JustTrogdor.7892:

Wirldwide.8046:

Very good point, just like having no macros, no follow system and when the game was released until today, no reporting system had to be put into place while ArenaNet didn’t have to form a support team to stop the rule breakers. Yea the layer of protection worked well…. NOT!

Breath… I didn’t say it was fool prof but it could help reduce the instances of false bot reports. Since there is no /follow function people may see this and think it is a bot.

Not fool proof? It didn’t do anything! That’s my point! All of those measure don’t stop the illegal stuff not one bit! Only the reporting system with a support team to catch the illegal activities worked. The other measures did nothing.

I play 12 Guild Wars 2 accounts and I guarantee that I get reported every day from players that think I’m breaking the rules of the game. I don’t even have to move. I just log in and players start /say that they are reporting me. The reason is because a good 90 to 95% of the player-base doesn’t know what the rules are concerning multi-boxing.

All the lack of follow function and rule in place to stop sending one key press to many accounts does is stops the game from making more sales. That’s my point, but I wanted to see if anyone including ArenaNet could give me a valid reason for the rule other than severely crippling a person that wants to play more than one account.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Ok, let’s say you are right, and no other game has rules like Guild Wars 2. Ok. They do things differently. Hmm, they do a few things differently. Some people agree and enjoy their way of doing things, and some people don’t. It is, after all, their game, their ‘ball’; they make the rules. I guess we can all abide by them, or….well, not. /shrug

This is why, I always play an MMO within the rules of the game. An interesting point that you may not be aware of, the rule wasn’t originally part of the game until only two months ago. During the Beta weekend events and the game’s release until March 2013, there wasn’t a rule that stated you couldn’t send a single key press to more than one account.

So the point of this message thread is, why does Guild Wars 2 have the rule which prohibits multi-boxers from sending one key press to more than one account? Players can play any number of accounts; that is multi-boxing. Multi-boxing is allowed and stated on this message forum as well as in the Guild Wars 2 User Agreement. But the rule as posted on this forum severely cripples game play and makes it very unfair against the same number of players in terms of world vs world PvP or any form of PvP. It also makes it unfair in any part of the game as the player cannot follow any of his other characters while the need to press a key for each account.

Behellagh.1468:

Well in his defense botting does imply extremely limited human interaction. A script performing an automated series of actions, like visiting nodes to gather.

Once again, please do not refer to botting here. That’s not what this message thread is about.

JustTrogdor.7892:

Behellagh.1468:

Wirldwide.8046:

At this link https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/account/Policy-3rd-Party-Programs-Multi-Boxing-Macros/first#post1532762

There is reference to this in the Multi-boxing section:

you may not program your keyboard to perform functions on more than one account at a time.
a. For example, if you press W on your keyboard to move forward, a single character on a single account should move forward. The keystroke or mouse click should not perform functions on more than one account.

So the question is, why does this rule for Guild Wars 2 which doesn’t exist in any other Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Games (MMORPGs) is here?

Because the same technology that would make an honest multi-boxing player’s life easier can also be used for more nefarious reasons. If you are looking to stop large scale farming operations then the unfortunate side effect is stopping the guy who simply wants to “solo” a dungeon.

That was kind of my guess as well. I think it may have something to do as an extra layer of protection to help Anet differentiate between bots and players multi boxing. Having a rule against a tactic that may look like a bot to some people helps reduce the number of reports about bots and the number of times they have to task an employee to review it.

Very good point, just like having no macros, no follow system and when the game was released until today, no reporting system had to be put into place while ArenaNet didn’t have to form a support team to stop the rule breakers. Yea the layer of protection worked well…. NOT!

My point is, the rules against a multi-boxer in Guild Wars 2 has absolutely NOTHING to do with people that break the rules. Most MMO gaming companies understand why and that’s why they don’t have the rule. That’s why they have a /follow command in their game too because it not only helps in having a nice feature in the game, it also helps players that have an alternate play-style instead of just playing one account. Having more features and game play styles in an MMO also means more sales and a larger player-base.

Behellagh.1468:

Wirldwide.8046:

At this link https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/account/Policy-3rd-Party-Programs-Multi-Boxing-Macros/first#post1532762

There is reference to this in the Multi-boxing section:

you may not program your keyboard to perform functions on more than one account at a time.
a. For example, if you press W on your keyboard to move forward, a single character on a single account should move forward. The keystroke or mouse click should not perform functions on more than one account.

So the question is, why does this rule for Guild Wars 2 which doesn’t exist in any other Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Games (MMORPGs) is here?

Because the same technology that would make an honest multi-boxing player’s life easier can also be used for more nefarious reasons. If you are looking to stop large scale farming operations then the unfortunate side effect is stopping the guy who simply wants to “solo” a dungeon.

There are measures in place in the game to stop large scale farming operations that has nothing to do with multi-boxing. But while we’re on this subject and staying with three as our number, is it against the rules for three players to continually farm materials in the game? We’re talking about three players controlling the characters and move around collecting nodes as they find them in the game. Is that against any rules of any MMO? If not, why would it be any different from a player playing three characters?

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

My apologies…*disallow automated multi-boxing

Once again, this message thread is not about automation. Automation is dis-allowed in all MMOs today. Searching google gives one post about some games that allowed it, but those MMOs don’t exist any more.

Any form of automation is not allowed in any MMO today. But that’s not what is being discussed here.

Another note: Having one key sent to more than one account is NOT automation if the one key was pressed by a person. There are some people that don’t understand that. If you don’t believe me, just look up the definitions of the words being discussed.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Although many games do allow multi-boxing, (and there are different definitions of the term,) some that do not allow it are RuneScape and Immortal Night. Although they are in the minority, Guild Wars 2 is not alone in the decision to disallow multi-boxing.

You are incorrect. Guild Wars 2 allows multi-boxing. Please read the rules and what this message thread is about. This discussion is specifically about the rule applied to multi-boxing.

GrandmaFunk.3052:

Wirldwide.8046:

you’re looking at it wrong, you’re not considering that the multi-boxer takes up 3 slots of game play just as 3 players would.

It comes down to multiboxing being Pay2win.

Why should you be able to get 3times the drops, get 3times the resources from nodes, be 3 times as effective in combat as another player, simply because you paid for 2 extra accounts?

Ok, let’s keep this discussion to 3. We’ll use your numbers…

Three characters multi-boxed means that those three characters need to be geared on three separate accounts. Those three characters need to gather for all three of them. Not just one character, but three! So your argument is that three characters shouldn’t be able to gather three times from a node, but you’re not considering that there are three characters that need to be geared, need to get their trade-skills improved, need to get their proper weapons equipped, need to get their skill points accumulated, need to get their traits purchased from a trainer, etc… Your argument is comparing the three characters as if they are only one. That’s way incorrect because the three characters must be maintained, not just one character.

Now let’s talk about combat. You’re saying three characters against one player is unfair. As just stated in other replies here, you’re making the wrong comparison. You’re stating that three players against one player is unfair. Well, guess what? That unfairness exists in all MMOs regardless of any multi-boxing. In any MMO if one player meets three players all similarly geared, the three players should beat the one player in terms of combat (PvP). Wouldn’t you agree? Your argument goes against the very nature of grouping, character movement in MMOs and the world in which MMOs are built.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

I can’t imagine this would be allowed in any AAA MMO. Can you imagine competitive PvP where you could have someone with 3 toons all attack you in perfect sync, no one would ever stand a chance. No game could ever have any sort of PvP without removing this.

All AAA MMO’s allow this. And the reason is because you’re not looking at it as if it’s 3 players against 1. You’re looking at it as if it’s 1 player against 1. The MMO vendors are smart in that they recognize it’s 3 slots of a battle being taken up going against 1 slot.

You are absolutely correct (all things being equal as far as gear, location of the players to each other, etc) that 1 player would die to 3 players. That exists in all MMOs ever made. So why state that no one would ever stand a chance? The reason you’re stating that is because you’re looking at it wrong, you’re not considering that the multi-boxer takes up 3 slots of game play just as 3 players would.

GrandmaFunk.3052:

Well, assuming your statement is true, I’d be more curious as to why other games don’t also ban this.

one player = one set of inputs = one concurrent character.

The reason is simple, it’s because of fairness. Other MMORPGs have a /follow system and also allow a single key press to go to more than one account because the same number of players against the multiboxer has about a 50% chance of either side winning.

If you visit many forums concerning multi-boxing, you’ll find many individual players making the argument that they lost against the multi-boxer playing usually 5 accounts against 1. The problem is that the individual making the complaint doesn’t understand that they would have died to 5 players the same way. MMORPGs have a thing called “grouping” which allows players to play together on the battlefield in PvP. Any number of players can meet any other number of players. When the battle is lopsided, the side with more players usually wins especially if one side is outnumbered 5 to 1. It’s how the game was set up and has nothing to do with multi-boxing, yet many players complain against multi-boxers because they look at it as if they should only be playing against 1 character instead of 5.

ShiningSquirrel.3751:

Wirldwide.8046:

At this link https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/account/Policy-3rd-Party-Programs-Multi-Boxing-Macros/first#post1532762

There is reference to this in the Multi-boxing section:

you may not program your keyboard to perform functions on more than one account at a time.
a. For example, if you press W on your keyboard to move forward, a single character on a single account should move forward. The keystroke or mouse click should not perform functions on more than one account.

So the question is, why does this rule for Guild Wars 2 which doesn’t exist in any other Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Games (MMORPGs) is here?

The rule exists for many other games, they just call it something different, “botting”, “third part software”, etc.
All Gail did with the post is to spell it out in plain English so players would stop asking and have something to reference. In a nutshell, anet simply said “multi-boxing is cheating when used one way, but not the other”.

You are mis-informed. The rule doesn’t exist in any other game that I’m aware of and I’ve read many user license agreements and visited many forums in regards to multiboxing. First and foremost, multiboxing has nothing to do with botting. Absolutely zero. This is the reason for the question and the reason the rule is separated from macros and botting. If it were the same thing, then it would be against the rules of every MMORPG ever made because automation (botting) is not allowed. But don’t worry too much about not knowing because I have found that a good 90% of the player-base of Guild Wars 2 doesn’t understand the difference either.

Secondly, if ArenaNet is stating that “multi-boxing” is cheating, why do they allow a player to play more than one account? Multi-boxing is when a player plays more than one account. ArenaNet allows any number of accounts to be played by a single player, yet they have a rule that states that each account must get its own key press by the player. I’m asking why that rule exists when there is no /follow command in the game?

If the concern is world vs world or PvE, what is the reason? In World vs World the same number of players against a multi-boxer with the same number of characters will get obliterated a good 90% of the time. Without a follow system, the multi-boxer would lose 25 to 30% of the time against the same number of players but combine this rule without the follow system and it’s dropped to 10% of the time that the multi-boxer will win the battle. Hence the reason for the question.

The rule makes it unfair for the multi-boxer against the same number of players that the multi-boxer has characters. With a follow system and the ability to press one key to all accounts by the multi-boxer and there is roughly a 50% chance of either side winning the battle.

At this link https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/account/Policy-3rd-Party-Programs-Multi-Boxing-Macros/first#post1532762

There is reference to this in the Multi-boxing section:

you may not program your keyboard to perform functions on more than one account at a time.
a. For example, if you press W on your keyboard to move forward, a single character on a single account should move forward. The keystroke or mouse click should not perform functions on more than one account.

So the question is, why does this rule for Guild Wars 2 which doesn’t exist in any other Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Games (MMORPGs) is here?

Castiel Aurios.7830:

DevonCarver.5370:

Indeed, it was a bug that the timer didn’t work all the time and we’ve addressed that. We are going to evaluate these times now that the timer does in fact work and it is very possible that we will make some changes to them. That being said, the main reason for the timer is the fact that we have to have the siege cap because of technical reasons and this helps to force siege to recycle if it isn’t being used.

One of your stated objectives in the making of GW2 was to eliminate the “grind” of having to do the same mindless tasks over & over. Despawn timers on tower/keep/camp defenses defeats that purpose. You should completely eliminate the timers on siege which should actually improve overall performance as you wouldn’t need to keep track of timers on every piece of siege. To prevent the siege cap problem, you should add a simple feature to each piece of siege. Add a new command button to the weapon skill bar that would force despawn after 10 separate players clicked that command. The 10 player requirement would prevent people from other servers from sabotaging siege. The first despawn command would start a 30 minute timer to collect an additional 9 player agreement clicks after which that piece of equipment would immediately despawn. If 10 clicks are not made within 30 minutes then the count would be reset to zero. This would eliminate the grind of ticking siege constantly and provide a mechanism for the players to deal with siege griefers. Of course players would still be able to eliminate hostile siege in the usual fashion. Depending on your programmers, you could make the change on equipment placed within defensive areas only and leave a timer on field siege which would help prevent siege griefers from trying to siege cap in remote places. You could even get fancy and overlay the number of clicks remaining over the command button much like the timer display for skill cool down.

You’ve left out one critical piece in your argument to remove timers from siege. That is “choice”. When the siege despawns, it’s a matter of choice whether to rebuild or move on. It’s also dependent on battle locations where enemies attack or defend.

I’m against any ability in any Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game (MMORPG) that affects an unlimited number of players in any area. The ability to affect an unlimited number of players even in a small area of battle in Player versus Player (PvP) allows one player to be far over powered in combat. All abilities should have some limit not only for balance, but because it makes sense from a shrapnel point of view where many targets in a small area would block objects around them. Eventually in all MMORPGs that I’ve been involved with, the abilities are reduced and placed with a limit. All abilities in all MMORPGs eventually will have a limit even if it takes years of analyzing combat in terms of PvP.

JaNordy.6149:

Here is a genius idea. Fix the most broken autoattack in the game in Guard scepter. Its been what, since beta that this has been in game? No attack in the game is more broken and worthless than scepter autoattack. How about next patch we finally take care of this obviously “MINOR” problem that clearly has no effect on gameplay at all!

I have always been able to auto attack with the scepter on a guardian even in beta. So I’m not sure what it is you are talking about. Maybe you could explain in detail what the issue is?

I have whispered them directly and they proceeded to /map chat again telling everyone that I’m now crying to them. I’ve also used map chat to let everyone know I’m not doing what they say I’m doing. That was yesterday. Then today they did the same thing asking everyone to report me while I was waiting for the maw event. There are two of them and they know I’m not actually a bot. At one time they even said in map chat that I wasn’t yesterday. I’ve got full screenshots of all chat activity.

I figured verbal abuse was the best choice but they only used bad language yesterday and I reported them for it then. Today they just told everyone I was a bot.

So if someone says I’m a bot and I’m not and I’ve tried reasoning with them and they continue on about it, you’re suggesting that I just report them for verbal abuse and that should take care of it? Verbal abuse doesn’t just mean bad language then?

There are two players that continually tell others in the game to report me for botting. Each time they see me in the game they tell map chat to report me for something I am not doing.

I hate botters but don’t quite understand why these two players want others to report me. I’ve never botted in my life and have played MMORPGs since Everquest March 16, 1999.

Do I open a trouble ticket against these two? Do I report them for verbal abuse?

Please don’t suggest I ignore them because that doesn’t work with Guild Wars 2 support. I already know that there is some system in place that works off of the number of reports and not whether someone is doing something wrong.

I would like to know what I can do to stop this behavior.

First, if you’re going to submit your NetworkDiag.log, I would suggest removal of your IP address from it.

Second, the issue I’m experiencing is “zone related”. It’s not happening every where in the game, only in specific zones where there is a high number of players. For example, if I go to Wayfarer Foothills during a heavy time such as after 7pm Pacific Time, I will become disconnected within 5 minutes and it will keep happening randomly within every 5 minutes.

If I move to Queensdale or Plains of Ashford I won’t ever see a disconnect. Move back to Wayfarer Foothills before 10pm when many are doing the Maw event and continue to see disconnects shorter than 5 minutes. Move back to Queensdale or Plains of Ashford and play for hours, no disconnects what-so-ever!

I don’t think the NetworkDiag.log information is going to help in this case when the issue appears to be on the server side and in particular in areas where there are a lot of players.

The issue for me began after the patch/downtime mentioned in this message thread. I wasn’t really visiting high zone areas just prior though so it could have existed prior. I began heavily doing the daily achievements about weeks ago and only after the last patch/downtime was when I started to get disconnects.

I don’t see this problem in any other online games and I have just about the fastest Internet available at 100mbps download and 20mpbs upload.

EDIT: Forgot to mention I’m on the Stormbluff Isle server.

Katsumoto.9452:

Frequent disconnects since patch at precisely the same time as multiple others on the guild teamspeak. Anyone else experiencing this?

For the record, I’m getting this also. My Internet is fine and no issues with anything else. This started happening when the last downtime/small patch was applied a few days ago. I’m not in WvW, I’m just at various places in the world doing PvE events. It can happen while an event is on or just standing there for a minute or two. Within an hour I can see it maybe 3 or 4 times. I have a 100mbps download and 20mbps upload Internet connection and playing several accounts. I didn’t experience this prior to the last patch.

What if they are right that you didn’t salvage, sell or destroy the Great sword within the 48 hours prior to their check, but that this was done prior? You indicated that as far as you know, you had the item but what if that’s not accurate? When do you know for sure that you had the item last? Was it longer than 48 hours prior to their check?

I’m not trying to defend anyone here, it’s just that there seems to be a piece missing in this because you’re not indicating for sure that you had the item. You state “as far as I know” which leads to speculation that you may not have had it then when you think you did.

lordkrall.7241:

Wirldwide.8046:

Who says it has to happen at one server at a time? Designers make the game how they see fit based on feedback from sources. I don’t see why it would have to be done one server at a time. Do the events now happen one server at a time? Is there anything in the game that happens one server at a time?

Because if it are to happen at more than one server at a time they will need one employee for each server, since they need to control them. You can’t control something on several servers at once, since all servers are unique and the amount of players/their tactics and so on will differ.

As for events happening at one server at a time that is actually already happening. All servers have independent “timers” for the big meta events and such.

Exactly, so it wouldn’t make sense to have this one server at a time since there isn’t anything happening now in the game that is one server at a time. The idea would be to have a system where players could control the boss, not an employee.

lordkrall.7241:

A rather major problem with this would however be the rather high amount of servers.
Since this can only happen at one server at a time and most likely take quite some time to complete it would likely take weeks for all servers to see it, and that is if they do it on a daily basis.
It would most likely also require hiring more people, since it would be a waste to put a developer or an art designer on a job like that. That wouldn’t be much of a problem with a subscription based game, GW2 however is not, so they don’t have that constant amount of money coming in.

Who says it has to happen at one server at a time? Designers make the game how they see fit based on feedback from sources. I don’t see why it would have to be done one server at a time. Do the events now happen one server at a time? Is there anything in the game that happens one server at a time?

This is also why a player controlling the boss instead of an employee of the company would make it more fun for both sides and reduce the time of having an employee run the boss. Design the game so that a player could take it on. It’s probably something that can’t be added any time soon, but maybe as an option in an expansion some day…

Vlad Morbius.1759:

A long time ago in a game that to me still is a brilliant design just outdated, Asheron’s Call, there was a very cool concept used many times which drove their storyline and created absolute chaos and joy whenever it happened. In a nutshell it was a dev controlled villain named Bael’zharon that would raid towns and areas of the open world and fight off the hordes of heroes that ran to defend the area. It was an amazing part of the game that since human controlled was unpredictable as well as an amazing challenge and his appearance caused a glut of excitement with hordes of people rushing off to join the battle.

…..

Can you just imagine the buzz this would create if it became a permanent part of how story lines unfolded in GW2?

Interesting… Sounds like Asherons Call copied Everquest. During the few months of release of Everquest these were going on by GM controlled bosses. This is a very old concept that I would expect would be in other games. What would make it even more interesting and free up GMs would be a design of the game where a player could take on the role of a boss. Maybe as a reward for having reached a certain achievement status a queue is entered at the players choice where a specific boss is started as a world event. The player controls the boss within a specific area and other players gather to take him down. That would be very cool for both sides.

If the player becomes disconnected, the AI (Artificial Intelligence) for the boss takes over for the duration of the battle.

Logging in all 12 of my Guild Wars 2 accounts and selecting my bikini girls that dance in Lion’s Arch on the Stormbluff Isle server. Occasionally players will make a bad comment but it’s all in good fun!

Hawkian.6580:

I just wanted to provide some clarity on the “fastest-selling of all time” issue. Also, I’ll thank killcannon for providing some contextual data to compare.

First, what does “fastest growing” mean? There are a variety of ways to measure it. Some would say that “sales within the first week” are all that should be considered. For our purposes, we can eschew a static timeframe that excludes data after a certain date in favor of “most copies sold in the shortest amount of time,” which we can compare fairly using reported sales numbers after a certain timeframe since release. That is, we can see both how many copies were sold by different games in the same period, as well as how long it took different games to reach the same sales threshold (if ever).

Two things we definitely have to acknowledge when making this metric determination are:

1) “…in the West”
and
2) Unless you count MMO expansions as individual games

clay.7849:

Then why is it when I google “fastest selling MMO” I keep getting SWTOR returns? You would think if what you said was true it would be bigger news.

This is problematic. You should never base any premise whatsoever on what you find as the top result for searching for a keyphrase on Google. For one thing, the phrase itself might be inadequate to obtain the results you’re looking for. For another, Google does not sort results by what is the most recent or the most accurate, but by which links have the highest PageRank.

News articles about SWTOR are rated highly by this algorithm. When SWTOR became the fastest-selling MMO of all time (which, in 2011, it did), it shattered the previous recordholder handily (in becoming the fastest-selling MMO, it also eclipsed the total sales of the previously fastest-selling games by a fair margin). This was a big deal!

However, it retained this record for less than a year, when it was overtaken by GW2. This is simply the fact of the scenario, not some kind of subjective assessment of what occurred. As to why it isn’t “bigger news,” I suppose it’s a fair question, but mainly one for the marketing department at ArenaNet. It might be a wise thing to base a campaign around during a free weekend/sale event.

Yes they sold 3 million fast, but they are not the fastest selling MMO of all time, that honor goes to SWTOR according to every other source I can find.

This is simply incorrect. And since you chose to say “according to every source,” I unfortunately have to question how much time you even spent looking.

With all due respect, this is misleading information. The reason is because the news is the game sold 3 million copies from launch until a specific date. That cannot be compared to any other MMO for one reason. The reason is because the company offered “PRE-PURCHASE” of the game and is including those numbers in their sold copies. The other gaming companies didn’t offer that but only pre-orders which aren’t considered part of the sold numbers. Pre-purchase of Guild Wars 2 opened on April 10, 2012 which is at least 4 months prior to game launch.

Also remember, the game was offered to be completely refunded to anyone that bought the game. We don’t know what those numbers are for the people that took the refund.

Dear sir or madam,

I’ve created tickets already on three of the five accounts which were blocked. When I attempt to log in, I’m given the text: Your account is blocked due to botting, etc.

I was playing the game using two computers with 5 accounts at the same time. This is the second time this happened. The first time I created a ticket and was told by 3 uninformed GMs that multiboxing wasn’t allowed and they pointed me to the forums that had an edited post that indicates that multiboxing is allowed. After a couple of days, an informed GM told me that multiboxing was allowed and as long as I’m playing all of the characters with software that sends keystrokes and mouse clicks to all clients, I’m OK to continue playing. At the time, I had been playing 12 accounts at the same time.

The reason I’m making the post here is to try to get ArenaNet to make public an accurate statement concerning multiboxing. To date, there is no public notice indicating that multiboxing by playing several accounts at the same time by having all keys to go to all clients of the game at the same time is allowed or not. There is a vague post that indicates the accounts must be played, but that is completely left up to interpretation as to what that really means.

Sky.7610:

If this game was subscription based, would you be willing to pay to play this game monthly? Why or why not?

Do you think GW2 would have flopped if it was launched as a subscription game?

I would absolutely NOT pay a subscription for this game based on it’s current features available.

1. If there were a lot more features added such as /follow command, macros and addons where players could customize their own UI, then I would consider it. But the way it is now, no chance in hell. This is just a minimum list.

2. If they fixed the animations so that if the player moved it would override the animation or if the player were moving and cast a skill that would launch a series of animations but instead keep moving then that would go a long way to having the game much more polished. In other words, movement should be the priority over any skill animation started as a result of a key press. The way it is now, the animation starts, it goes all the way to completion before the player can keep moving. If a player is moving, no animation should start that would otherwise place the player some where that he doesn’t intend to move towards unless an enemy caused the player to move towards some other direction.

Correct these two deficiencies and let everyone know the stance on multiboxing without leaving anything left up to interpretation and I would subscribe. There are some players that prefer to play an MMORPG by playing many accounts at the same time. By not having features that prevent this and by not telling the public the official stance on multiboxing (and yes I know of the posts on this forum that give a very vague reference to it being allowed), an entire group of players is restricted from playing the game.

For me, it’s very simple. /follow to auto follow your target.

No amount of content or additions to the game will bring me back other than that.

SoggyFrog.4170:

I didn’t realize the community acted as a monolithic entity. Show me one person who asked for gear progression earlier who is complaining now.

Or a 37-page thread that has existed for 12 hours demanding gear progression…

Most of the players that asked for gear progression have left the game by now because they rushed to level 80 as fast as they could and didn’t have anything to do after that. So you’re not asking the right question.

By the way, I’m happy with the addition of Ascended Gear. Why? Because I’m not yet level 80. I’m taking my sweet natural time and clearing each and every map and looking at every vista two or three times. This game is awesome and I’m happy with everything about it, except it needs autofollow. haha

A feature I’m pretty sure has been in every MMO I’ve ever played, and this is the most heavily-botted MMO I’ve ever played despite that feature being left out.

Agreed. I believe the reason an auto-follow system, macros or addons were not applied to Guild Wars 2 was because of fear of bots. A simple search through all fan forums prior to game release that had mention of auto-follow, macros or addons usually involved potential players against the idea. Reason? Fear of bots. The entire community was against the idea of having these things because they didn’t want to have bots. Fast forward to today and none of this is in the game. Are there bots? Yes, we know there are. It’s a huge problem that had nothing to do with these features.

My suggestion is to add auto-follow, macros and addons. It won’t increase or decrease the use of bots. It will help multiboxers.

zbrkesbr.4173:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T691o0rFcBE

1. you need to do event with harpies (protect cows while Mad Mardine does his experiment)
2. wait until he launches the rest of cows “for fun”
3. when Mad Mardine becomes merchant cattlepult is usable for players.
….
Profit!

P.S. server: Seafarer’s Rest, but i’m pretty much sure it works on all/most servers.

This is incorrect. You don’t have to do the event with harpies. Only if that event is happening do you need to stop them. If that event is not happening, you can just try to click the front of the catapult. If it works, great, if not, just wait til Mad Mardine becomes a merchant which will be after he’s finished launching cows.

Once again as I stated in full description of how to get this vista on page one of this message thread, “This is a timed activation launch” to get to the vista point. Which means that the catapult won’t function unless it is at the right time.

If you are having problems with this vista, Read my full description here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Moorwatch-Tower-Bug-Thread-Merged/first#post159844

What is your primary weapon? I’ve noticed that auto attack will work on weapons that cast something to the target. For example a staff or a scepter has auto attack, but a sword or a mace does not. It could be that your primary weapon wasn’t meant for auto-attack?

Fengshua.9085:

As far as multi- boxing being allowed, according to this thread it is not.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Q-Is-multi-boxing-allowed/first

I suppose anyone admitting to multi-boxing in the forums should be reported?

Two things are wrong with the message thread you have provided.

1. No description of what is meant by the term multiboxing.
2. The moderator states that 3rd party programming is strictly forbidden by ArenaNet.

Guild Wars 2 launches a web browser when you click on certain things in the game. The web browser is a program written by a 3rd party. The web browser was not written by the player, not written by ArenaNet either. It’s a 3rd party program. 3rd party programs are allowed! The distinction is, ArenaNet determines which 3rd party programs are allowed or not. So simply stating 3rd party programs are not allowed is incorrect.

Simply stating multiboxing is not allowed is also incorrect if the term multiboxing is not defined.

I already knew of that message thread prior to posting here. How do I know multiboxing is allowed?

1. Define your terms. What is meant by multiboxing? Send that description in a support ticket to ArenaNet and see what the response is.
2. What is meant by automation. Many don’t understand the difference, so we will describe both multiboxing and automation here.

Below is the description and the response I received from ArenaNet in regards to multiboxing:

Subject: Is Multiboxing allowed in Guild Wars 2?

First, let’s understand what we’re talking about so these terms are defined below.

1. Multiboxing is defined as playing several accounts at the same time by one player. The player is at the keyboard playing the game just like any other player except the player controls several characters on separate accounts. The multiboxer is the player controlling the characters by pressing keys and using the mouse.
2. Multiboxing software – This is defined as software that sends the players keystrokes and/or mouse to all Guild Wars 2 clients for separate accounts. The same key pressed goes to all of the clients at the same time. A mouse button pressed goes to all of the clients at the same time in the same location.

There is no automation. There is only keys and mouse commands being sent to all of the game clients at the same time by the player that pressed or pushed the mouse button. The player makes the decision about what key to press to activate which skill at the time decided by the player. If the player wants to have all characters dodge at the same time, the player presses the key to execute that action.

Because Guild Wars 2 does not have a follow command, the process of controlling the direction for the characters is difficult but not impossible.

So the question is, is this allowed or will there be a ban to any players playing multiple accounts at the same time? The Guild Wars 2 User Agreement appears to state that more than one account can be used. Section 4.a states: “The Game requires at least one Account from NCsoft. You acknowledge that it is Your responsibility to establish any Account needed for the Game and to comply with any NCsoft provisions for establishing and maintaining such Account(s)”

Response Via Email (GM Mourdyth) 10/03/2012 11:50 AM
Hello,

Thanks for contacting us! Owning and using more than one Guild Wars 2 account is not against the user agreement, as long as there is no automation. If you have any other questions or concerns about this or any other issues, please let us know.

Best Regards,
GM Mourdyth
Guild Wars Support Team

So now, the question is, what is meant by automation.

From dictionary.reference.com:
1. the technique, method, or system of operating or controlling a process by highly automatic means, as by electronic devices, reducing human intervention to a minimum.
2. a mechanical device, operated electronically, that functions automatically, without continuous input from an operator.

Multiboxing in and of itself does not constitute this. Why? Because there is a player at the keyboard pressing keys and making mouse movements. The keystrokes and/or mouse movements can go to all of the games client windows at the same time.

Botting is not allowed because there is automation. What does bot stand for? It stands for robot. Which means there isn’t a person controlling the character. It’s a computer program controlling the character. There is automation involved because a person has been reduced.

For those reporting bots, how do you know they are bots and not multiboxers?

I’m a multiboxer – which means…

I play many accounts at the same time. I’m currently playing eight characters at about level 40 each on the Eredon Terrace world and once they reach level 48, I will join with the other four characters to play a total of 12 accounts at the same time.

A multiboxer that plays many accounts and doesn’t have automation is allowed and is within the Guild Wars 2 User Agreement. I am aware there are other multiboxers on other worlds.

The reason I’m mentioning this is because if you are aware that a player is behind the keyboard playing several accounts and you report that player for botting, you are knowingly false reporting. Falsely reporting a player for botting is against the Guild Wars 2 User Agreement.

I thought the issue had gone away until yesterday. When the character is stuck, any skill that causes the character to move will make the character unstuck. None of the keys that are mapped to movement will work. Also, a Waypoint will unstuck the character but is not a good solution if you’re in the middle of combat.

It appears that the character gets stuck during combat. Sometimes when the enemy does a skill that causes the character to move that it will become stuck at particular times. There doesn’t appear to be a pattern.

I’ve been playing different races and haven’t noticed that it was particular to getting stuck on the Norn, but you may be right.

I disagree 100% with this. The bosses are fine the way they are. Please keep them that way to allow players leveling up the same opportunity as those that rushed to end game.

skaaz.4281:

Here is some info on account security.

Mike O’Brien on Account Security

With due respect, Mike is a great guy and thanks to his leadership for Guild Wars 2 being here today. However, the article addresses single account ownership only. If a player has multiple accounts, how is the Google Authenticator going to work if the player has one smart phone?

Having an auto follow system in place helps players that group with friends so they keep them going to the same place. This is useful for navigating in areas with multiple paths so that players can remain together and help each other. Grouping is encouraged by showing new players where things are for example. And when a player doesn’t know how to get some place, it’s better to show them instead of telling them sometimes. An auto follow system would enhance the game.

There are some players that seem to believe that an auto follow system helps bots. But as we all know there have been many reports of bots and gold spammers in the Complaints forum (I mean General forum). Auto follow in a game as well as macros and addons have nothing to do with bots because it’s the 3rd party software that controls the actions of bots, not in game functions.

I highly recommend a follow system as this encourages players to help each other in times of need. Please consider. Something like /target playername and /follow or just /follow playername

I agree that this is the best Massively Mulitplaying Online Role Playing Game (MMORPG) on the market today. I would hope that everyone playing Guild Wars 2 would think so. The game has broken new ground into the market of MMORPG’s with all of the features it has. I wonder what the first expansion will have?

Looks like a multiboxer from the picture. Doesn’t appear to be a bot at all.

As far as I know, multiboxing is allowed. I’ve not seen any ArenaNet staff state that multiboxing was not allowed.

I multibox and I got a lot of players telling me I was being reported. That completely contradicts the reporting feature of the game. If you tell the player there that you’re reporting them for botting, then you know there is a player there and you know he’s not breaking any rules. Especially if the player responds to you. When you submit a report, it clearly states there could be actions against you if you continue to falsely make reports. The only way you can really tell if there is a bot there is if the player continuously runs a pattern and doesn’t respond to verbal discussion. However, I’m tired of explaining to everyone in a zone that I’m multiboxing and I’m here. So usually what I do is if I see someone near me, I just say “Hi” at the start and carry on.

You can’t tell in 1 or 2 minutes if a bot is running a pattern. You’ve got to watch for at least 15 to 30 minutes and the bot must make the exact same moves over and over. That’s how you know it’s a bot. If it stays in one spot, you can’t really tell. It might be someone multiboxing, pressing keys and on the phone or eating. And if you see several characters all with similar names casting at the same time, it’s more likely a multiboxer than a bot.

Botting means there is no player at the keyboard, there is a program making decisions for the player. This means that the program has some sort of dialog that is preset that keeps going over and over. Without the bot moving, it’s hard to tell if there really is a program controlling it.

With multiboxing, there is a player at the keyboard pressing keys to control the actions of all of the characters. However, there is no follow system in Guild Wars 2 presently. So it’s hard to have all of the characters move in the same direction. It can be done but it’s much easier to stand in one spot and kill anything that comes your way. So the picture looks like a multiboxer to me.