Guild Wars 2

Good luck, hopefully they can restore it.

+1 for OP.
All feeling the pain it seems.
Hope it’s something they fix soon.

I do just fine on my ranger, thanks for asking.
Ignorance is bliss i guess.

Kirnale.5914:

+ Your stealth cannot be removed once activated
+ You can heal and cleanse while in stealth
+ You can reset combats
+ You can wait until some CDs are ready
+ You can always have the first strike, which is a huge advantage
+ You can dodge while in stealth
+ You can use movement skills, as well as teleports
+ Some classes have a long stealth uptime
+ You can revive and be revived while being invisible
- Few classes have “Revealed” debuff
- Channel skills follows you for a short amount of time

.

1st: Stealth can’t be removed once activated and in the same list you reference revealed. Do you NOT know that removes stealth, and prevents it from being applied. Just trolling? You are the primary person who complains who NEEDS to actually go play a thief more than anything else where this game is concerned. A week of playing, maybe less if you do your leveling in spvp, and I promise your complaints would be gone.

Heals and cleans, we have the worst in the game when it comes to that. We have to get stealth for 3 seconds to remove one condition, and unlike almost every other condition removal available, thief’s is limited strictly to certain types of condition removal. That’s right we have no one stop shop for removal at all. The heal, really?
Again you’re a player that NEEDS to play the class just so you can see how FAR OUT THERE you really are.

Channeled skills follow for their full duration. Not even sure why you brought this up, as most people consider this a bug if anything, and has been like this since Beta. It’s also extremely annoying.

I’m done, you are so completely ignorant of the class and its mechanics, much less its actual state in the game right now. Go play one and get a clue. There’s simply no way you can play it, and not hop on ANY other class and not feel that playing the other classes are easier, and way more forgiving of mistakes. Most thieves actually do this, simply because right now thieves are out right depressing to play.

I use P/P.
I know, I know. /cry
But thematically at least, it looks better.
Least we did get a Dev comment for how poor P/P is performing, so at least it has been noticed by even them at this point. We don’t get noticed much, so any news is good news.

Sagat.3285:

Replace “thieves” with “d/p”.

This made me giggle.
You know it’s bad when the only comments given that is even remotely “thought out” apply to a specific weapon set only, and the need for “something to hide behind”.

Holy crap, we are hosed.

Urejt.5648:

I forsee s/d onlychoice after hot. Fist reason s/d has better utilities: teleport, condie removal, stealth from dagger. Secondly shawdow trait line will be garbage due to the fact, that enemy will always reveal you (revenant dragon or gyro reveal). Stealth rezer no longer will be viable. New meta will be daredevil s/d.

I’ll be sure to quote you on this later, cause I’m calling BS.
One weekend of testing and we KNOW things are being changed based on feedback plus additional changes the Dev team already reported. Pure conjecture is all any one can give and its going to be flawed currently, cause it’s going to change by next Beta weekend.

/eyeroll

No ones gonna be able to tell you that based on beta weekends alone.
Wait and see, and test it yourself (which even after release is always subject to change).

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Heck we can even make an argument that because of stealth, the Thief can deny everybody else from using their mechanic on the Thief. You can’t really do anything to something you cannot see.

Would be so great if that were true.
But unfortunately my I WIN button of stealth being immune to damage seems to have broken, and has never worked. Attitudes like YOURS is what got thieves nerfed in the first dam place. Stealth is not godmode, has never been and has since BETA always had counters. Now we just get to see more for some dam reason.

AoE & cleave make it extremely easy to hit a stealthed anything, and that includes all classes with access to the mechanic of stealth. The big difference, other classes with access don’t crumple like spun sugar to a single hit unless they are pure berserker. For a thief, you can be built with some survival ability in mind (Extra Sta, and toughness…you know those stats most other classes forgot about cause they don’t need em), it doesn’t change the out come very often for the thief unless you play perfectly, opponent makes multiple mistakes or both. Hardly the pinnacle of balance.

And yes, I’m bitter with the current state of thief.
And every thief player should be at this point.

I’d be happier if steal stripped all invulerability, and X number of boons, as currently that’s thieves biggest issue when fighting other classes, too many of them can completely negate our damage. Running away often means you just died being tired, thanks to revealed and/or other CC effects.

When my stealth completely negates AoE’s and cleave, then there might be an argument to the contrary.

Wow, we get moa to use vs deathshroud? Awesome!!
And to say many thief builds aren’t as reliant on stealth as a necro is on DS, you are sorely mistaken.

Zodryn, point is simple: If hard counters for a skill set is okay for us, other classes should get the same treatment. I’d be all for getting an ability that removes other classes godmode (invulnerability) for example.

Fairs fair right?

Mefiq.7039:

…. On the other hand i find myself rly powerful on engi mesmer and ele, they are just SO MUCH EASIER than thief and FORGIVE missplays with insane sustain oryolo traits that gives them godmode…

I think this is one of the biggest underlying issues a thief faces and very few actually comment about it. So many classes now have invulnerability to damage for set lengths of time. As a class that has to go in and out to do damage, it out right cripples us when we need to be able to stick to someone and our damage is completely mitigated. Breaking off generally either results in our death due to revealed mechanics, or we have to run away because we are too low health to reengage after godmode ends.

My ideas on this have been said before but some of the easiest ones for sets like D/D, C&D should be unblockable and blind, or we get our own invulnerability since it seems to be a fad almost every class seems to have at least some access to. There’s multiple ways they could balance this, but current meta right now is balanced on who has the most invulnerability up time.

Oh well it is what it is, hopefully soon the Devs will give us some much deserved love, cause at this point we really do need something (Daredevil sadly isnt it).

The difference between a good and bad thief vs other, non-theif, classes currently is a good thief will live longer than 5 seconds, but it doesn’t mean the out come gets changed outside of hasty retreats on the thieves part, or help for that “+1” scenario.

+1, stupidest thing ever said in any “competitive” game…EVER

Slowmelt.8547:

Xovian.8572:

Slowmelt.8547:

Xovian.8572:

Won’t happen. Weapon Swap Sigils would easily be abused by this.

See:

The only problem with that is on-weapon-swap abilities, and they can just be given a reasonable ICD easily enough.

It’s really easy to fix.

And something else they wont waste time doing.

Making the Thief better is not a waste of time… not even if Arenanet seems to think so.

Not really sure why you decided to argue with me, you’re preaching to the choir here.
But i have expectations like everyone else here, mine just happen to be very low, but its been earned.

Slowmelt.8547:

Xovian.8572:

Won’t happen. Weapon Swap Sigils would easily be abused by this.

See:

The only problem with that is on-weapon-swap abilities, and they can just be given a reasonable ICD easily enough.

It’s really easy to fix.

And something else they wont waste time doing.

Yup, pretty sad state of affairs currently. Don’t think HoT based on current Beta tests is going to change it any. Hopefully next balance patch gets us back to at least being a threat and not a laughing stock.

MakubeC.3026:

Odyssey.2613:

The community cried big salty tears over stealth for years. Thief got nerfed and hamstrung into the dirt. Then the devs gave Mesmers tons of additional stealth and are now BOSS. What did the community do? Cheered and stole mommy and daddies credit cards to buy pet rocks.

This leads me to believe the vast majority of the community are idiots.

A thousand times this.

So much truth it isn’t even funny.
People seem to forget their mobility too.
But it’s okay cause they aren’t thieves.

You can fix dumb people, cause that’s just ignorance, you can be taught so it’s easily corrected. Sadly you can’t fix stupid.

Thief is hated on principle and name alone.
Nice social experiment Anet performed to prove it.

Slowmelt.8547:

Black Frog.9274:

Random idea: some sort of Quick Draw ability that reduces swap time.

Honestly? It’s dumb that we even HAVE swap time.
Because of the way Initiative works, if you consider both weapon sets, other professions are actually LESS limited than we are by the cooldown system. The only thing Initiative does for us is being able to spam a single ability over and over… and that leads to our having one spammy damage ability and a bunch of almost-never-used situational crap on almost every weapon set.
At the very least, if we’re going to have all these situational abilities, we should get a minor somewhere that makes weapon swap no-cooldown.

Trickery is a good place for that, actually. The extra Initiative becoming baseline and Trickery giving a fast swap would be nice.

The only problem with that is on-weapon-swap abilities, and they can just be given a reasonable ICD easily enough.

Won’t happen. Weapon Swap Sigils would easily be abused by this.
A lower cooldown option might be doable, but removed…simply will not happen in our life time.

P/P does need help, the only way for the devs to do this with out overtly power creeping other sets is to limit the changes to Unload. The sky’s the limit with what could be added, but at least it’s finally on the chopping block to be looked at, and hopefully improved enough to make it a decent selection instead of people just laughing at it as is done currently outside of PvE.

BeepBoopBop.5403:

One time I was roaming with a guildie. We ran into an Anet dev on an enemy server (JQ or TC) playing warrior. We destroyed his party of 4 several times and had our gloat on the bodies. We were two S/D thieves.

Eventually we run into them one last time, except the dev rerolled to thief. What do I see them do? While speced S/P, the first thing they do is shadow refuge the group. Next time I see him he’s just trying auto attacking my buddy who is ignoring him. Called target and insta downed him and won the fight.

Sorry if S/D or thief gets more nerfs lol.

Doubtful. He probably looked at the logs saw it wasn’t thief damage that was the problem and getting downed by being focused is hardly something thieves are better at than any other class. Thief was the least of his worries.

If anything, seeing that he got ignored while on a thief is quite telling to any developer.

P/P hopefully gets some love soon.

Rain.9213:

Also if range is an issue, you can run Bandit’s Defense and block every single Rapid Fire shot from a Ranger…..

1 sec block vs 2 and half skill…blocking all…. really?
Can i hakzor too?

The block duration is laughable.

Kadin.2356:

evilapprentice.6379:

Kadin.2356:

The condi removal trait is already bordering at OP with a 1 sec ICD. I imagine post release that’s going to be nerfed to like 3 seconds.

Please, elaborate. Just saying that it’s “Bordering on OP” provides nothing.

Please explain exactly how removing 1 condition on successful evade is “borderline OP”.

The condi removal potential on this ability is already very high compared to most other class’ options in that department. The only reason that even this much is justifiable is due to our low HP pool. I’d love for this to do more but I doubt it would pass any kind of balance check.

LOL.
Yea, that’s why Revenant’s get a straight remove on dodge already.

Just a few bugs and feed back to mention.

Bugs:
-Impact strike (First strike) has the slight movement jump for closing a gap, the problem is it often passes the target if you are already in motion when it is being used. This causes the second to either miss entirely and cancels the attack chain completely or you can do two upper cuts into thin air (you’re facing the wrong way) and it’s lost. Was more noticeable if you had swiftness on (from unhindered combat) and both you and target were in motion.

-Both condition removal trait and healing trait on successful evade are not removing conditions/healing (respectively) even when you successfully evade an attack.

Thief specific Comments:
-Staff animations, they’ve been covered. Simply put, it needs work, and less pause frames.

-I think some of the internal cooldowns (weakening strikes) need to be reduced / looked at. The duration prevents us from stacking it, there’s no reason to have a 10 second internal cooldown, especially in PvP (sPvP or other wise) a fight can end in three seconds flat or less for a thief, even from full health.

-Dodge traits need the delays removed and likely a rework of several of the animations, rehashed skills is expected in beta, but i do hope there are plans to have more polished versions.

-Escapist Absolution really needs to be an on dodge….not on a successful evade. IMO. There might be arguments if they could remove more than 1, but they remove only one. I think THIS is my current biggest disappointment (complaint) for the trait line over others, even the grand master dodges that i think just need tweaking. For a more defensive “not-needing-stealth-all-the-time” trait line, it sure is lack luster / disappointing compared to what we already have in the core game for this aspect.

-As above, i think Driven Fortitude should also be compared for on dodge instead of successful on evade. Though Escapist Absolution does have priority in that regard.

As a trait line compared to other thief lines. Simply put it is not currently offering anything that makes anyone think “must have”. I get diversity is the goal but if a trait line has nothing that people might even consider as a must have for builds, its going to fall into shadow very quickly (no pun intended).

General playing with the spec builds and traits.

-Staff was okay. It has a niche i can see, i think we may even see some Staff/Staff players in our near future. I think some damage checks for balance may be in order though. Cast times, duration and effects included of course.

-Beginning story of this Beta …can we just get to it (the testing so much testing) with out all the hoopla next time?

-Masteries. Really? More time gated crap for things that keep you from actually playing the game cause they couldn’t be done in a story or something that would actually make sense. Or you know, just given (tutorial like) at a specific spot every player has to pass in the expansion. The whole “precursor” must build up to it, is also done in very poor form IMO. It was “promised”, at this point years ago, and this is how you do it? One of you in the office needs to go punch the decision maker for that one, a big smacker right on the nose. If you called that one Karl, punch yourself. I know I wont be alone on that feeling.

-On the plus side: 3 Dodge bars, ohhh yea, that was fun, I’ll admit it, I tested and confirmed we can keep Swiftness permanent with dodges (sigil of energy does wonders with this line). Not overly helpful, and not gonna kill anyone with it for sure, but there non-the-less.

Yes it is a known bug, this also occurs with on crit/hit damage procs Sigils.
Don’t think any on hit actually do damage off hand, but there for completeness, if it procs and does damage you will be revealed.

I prefer Emberspire.

Goes well with Incinerator

Vennyhedgie.5369:

What is it supposed to be?

2 tightly pursed lips fixing to suck a tiny…..ummm. It’s two pursed lips drooling yea, that’s it, its two lips with some spittle.

Look at it again on the professions page, I know I’m not the only person seeing it that way.

Also to the Devs, if it’s what you say it is, then the eye would be clear of “obstructions”. As it is a sight that sees all. Typically adornments of various types are “around” the eye depending on version you look at.

Acheron.4576:

thieves have always wanted two things since i started playing beta. First is an off-hand sword, second was Rifle. Honestly staff was thrown from pretty much nowhere recently.

Agreed.
Even rifle has always been a secondary, many have just hoped they’d fix P/P since it’s always been a bit lacking, and still do to some extent. Maybe we will get luck at some point and they will actually give traits to make it the range we’d like to see.

Staff just came outa no where and frankly i’m sure there is a bunch that could care less. Just be another disappointment for thief IMO.

Now OH-Sword? Off Hand sword has been asked for since beta, and since pre-release it still comes up every now and again. It is also the one i’d be most hopeful for. Thieves are also the masters of skill based dual wielding (not force / brute strength) by all accounts in fantasy, shame we seemed to have missed the boat in GW2 for this.

To each their own of course though.

I’ve had this happen as well, not sure if it matters but using D/D setup.
Occasionally you’ll go into stealth and the duration ends up lasting a second or less and you get revealed with out having any actions taken against you or performing actions and you get revealed anyways.

It seems to happen more often if you have conditions on you, though I’m not sure if this is the cause or just part of the issue.

DHawk.2687:

( well you need a target but there always is a target in wvw normally)

Not true, the stealth will activate with out a target (also thrill of the crime, ~_- ).
When getting away from zerg/blobs, it’s actually useful, just got to be quick on hitting the ESC key to remove target so that it activates and doesn’t go on cooldown and be wasted.

DHawk.2687:

why don’t you channel CnD and then steal, it hits the target you go stealth and then backstab, why the hell minimize your burst for no reason? xD

Having an extra stealth option ever 20 seconds is not a bad thing to have and has uses other then just a setup for backstab. Why minimize global functionality and defenses just for the sake of burst that likely isn’t going to kill the target with just itself anyways?

Both ways have their pros and cons.

I steal and backstab which does not break stealth until the backstab hits.
I remove a point of failure since the C&D has to land with out it.
But then again, it’s just because I’m lazy.

@zzBlurryzz

I’ve been using a similar build in WvW:
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=Vh;4RwkZ0J5R-Fd0;9;4JKM;0247247237;4Oo0-S;1DucYDucYn-F9I6;0S;1VOVTWYXcYi3o4230C-2i;5F2Cok2Cw;9;9;9;9;85-6n

I tend to take stealth on steal as well though.
Found the Runes of Speed + WvW buff gives enough HP (14-15k) to keep me going.

Mines a bit different but it works for my “deception” build.
Just what i like for the feel of my thief. Mango Pie is sometimes useful for food too.

Like seeing how yours was done as it’s just enough difference to give a different experience. It’s the little things.

Stealth poundings for all, take that how you want, you really want people to hate us more don’t you Chaos….

yolo swaggins.2570:

Fill this out in a comment below:

IGN: <enter main’s name>
Playstyle: <WvW/sPvP/PvE most played>
Server: <your server>
Experience with thief: <short paragraph>

Name: XovÏ
Play style: WvW
Server: Tarnished Coast
Experience: Second main class, but has a lot more time played, 2 years plus and counting. First was Mesmer, with an unconventional build (Melee centered on death build, way before PU came).
Mostly do roaming, and occasional small scale battles or Havoc groups.
Typically running D/D & /D (off hand bow in groups) with switches in armor ranging from full sentinels to full berserker. Even have a full celestial set (weapons, armor, jewelry) for my thief. I’ve played with all builds, but was never a fan of d/p or p/d even when they have had their highlights. I’m D/D through and through.

yiksing.9432:

I don’t mind them being able to stealth better than thief, ….

Simply put, you should.
When any other class “out sneaks” a thief there is a fundamental problem with the logic.

Also attacking more than once while in stealth has been a “Big No No” since the game went live. Now we are seeing a class do it for extended lengths of time, and with no downside, which we thieves are just riddled with.

Like i said, maybe you should.
That’s become the mind set for thieves lately, taking it and being forced to like it. Then hearing how it’s okay from other classes and people actually believing it.

Yay for thieves Stockholm syndrome?

Sagat.3285:

I’ll happily drop the vulnerability for blind.

I also concur as a D/D player.

Nephrite.6954:

I seriously think we need this.

While this may help in some fights (thief vs thief for example) I doubt you’d see any difference going against other classes. Simply put our base would need a 10K+ increase for any of it to even get close to mattering.

Think i’m full of it I’m sure right?
Go put on full sentinels gear with intelligence sigils and crit/shadow/X build in WvW. All items, armor, weapons, jewlery. You’ll have a crap load of hp, 24-26k. Your power with food can easily reach into the 2200 (or higher) range. That ain’t bad for non berserker gear. But you will still get run over by some classes regardless of the higher hp. Damage is just currently that ridiculous in the game.

Simply put, HP isn’t gonna help us, we lack the mitigation or out right invulnerability every other class has access to and that’s what is gonna keep killing us.

A quick throw together of the build:
http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=Vh;4RwkZ0J5R-kd0;9;4JKM;0247247237;4Ok0-R;1DucYDucYJOGiXf;0i1;1j5k5iaiajaha6mWRc4PW8gk1Ag;9;9;9;9;9;55-6o

Berserk back piece was used as i dont remember ever getting Sents for that slot.
Remember while using current builders, that build went as one of the most unkillable builds you could run. It didn’t kill super fast but it was the best distraction you could ask for for team efforts. Acrobatics was often used more often then trickery back then, just to point out.

Oldgrimm.8521:

solutions that i had in mind:
1. increase the health pool of the thief on par with all the medium class

This would do nothing.
I use to go between two specific spec/builds with my D/D build 6months ago (back from extended break). That was a mixed build relying primarily on berserker’s or going “annoying thief”. For the first there are many variations and most people tend to play this in SPvP or WvW. The latter is full sentinels gear (WvW primarily) all armor, trinkets and even weapons, depending on boost from current world it becomes a thief with 24-26k HP. When i came back from my recent break and dieing with what i felt was an unnatural amount due to almost insta-gib deaths, i put my sentinels gear on.

The surprise, i could do better damage than i remembered, but was dropped almost as quickly as with normal gear. In fact it was just stupid how fast i died. I use to run through small zergs, live and get away and have zergs chase me across the map. Now just a single person with the right build or skill can completely shut down a build that couldn’t kill a flea but was ludicrous for even groups to try and kill. Now? Throw in multiple opponents and its an exercise in futility.

I’ve been back for just over 2 weeks, so i’ve gotten back in to the swing of things that would need to happen after a long break. While I can actually get a kill here and there with the old YOLO builds, anything else is severely lacking, and i can attest with out any doubt HP will NOT make a difference to us when facing other classes. It would only help in thief vs thief as we wont be one shotting each other anymore.

Einlanzer.1627:

All classes have similar offensive potential while being very unequal defensively.

Arenanet just isn’t good at balance.

Pretty much spot on.

I was gone for 6-8 months came back the Friday after the big patch, didn’t even know of the patch till i logged in. Like OP I’ve main’ed 2 classes, for me being Mesmer and Thief. My biggest “WTF?” moment was being able to take PU with my old build, and have so much up time on stealth. More then 10 seconds difference when compared to a deception Thief. I’ve always stuck with D/D, so yea C&D is there but playing my Mesmer now vs my Thief, is just a joke when comparing them. I realize many classes have and will have the stealth mechanic, but something is just absurdly wrong when the “sneaky” class isn’t even close to being a master of stealth.

My Mesmer lives, my thief dies. Simple.

Devs this is what happens when you have people playing and liking a class and having that same player play a class but doesn’t really like it and making calls for balance. Mesmer could be OP before (was not a PU player previously), it’s now so silly that it just makes me want to retire the thief class outright cause it’s almost unplayable in WvW with roaming which is what i use both classes for.

GW2 is no longer about skill or tactics, it’s simply the lotto of what class are you playing and how badly did you get hosed compared to everyone else. Guess for our thieves it’s at least down to one thing, there’s nothing left to nerf. They’ve given all our perks to every other class but we gained nothing in return.

Needless to say, like many in this forum, I wont be buying the expansion, I don’t pay for stupidity and the game has just gone beyond stupid with balance.

Sariel V.7024:

stuff and walls o text that ended up being gibberish

You make a post basically comparing apples and oranges cause of something that has no affect on you what so ever. You then make an argument and say something that can be done, but isn’t even mechanically possible in this game. (No one can bar a player from gather resources…PERIOD. Walk up and hit the letter “F”). The only thing i got from you was you don’t think the Dev’s know how to code, but you have given no evidence and no arguments with any validity.

Your obvious complaint about the maize is noted though, not that you can stop them or that they could stop you.

KarlaGrey.5903:

Perhaps if the OP had not applied the copy paste method, exclamation marks, and obligatory one liners to every single pro argument, it would be far more difficult to discern just how controversial his (rather skewed) list of arguments really is.

+1 to this.

The lists has also completely left out the “pro” = adds: “variety”, “additional content” or “variety of options” to the existing game and can ALWAYS be made to detract = “NONE”.

Need clarification? Dueling for example. If done correctly is toggle-able to auto-decline, and can be set as the default. Thus you have to turn it on. For those that oppose dueling (for this example), there is no excuse, banter or argument that has yet to be given that can say why the option should NOT be added. As those that want would use it, those that don’t, never know its even there.

( ^You want a pro on the argument for…have at it. )

Semantics aside, people opposing many in the list simply are arguing against having more options in the game. There is simply no reason to not add content to the game.
Break every option to its base: Add content. Everything in the list I summed up with two words. And outside of hardware or software limitations, there is NEVER an excuse to not add content to a MMO game.

Disagree? Then name one GOOD reason (not listed below) why that is incorrect. Cause I’d honestly like to see it.

(And I’ll cut one off before it even starts, saying “Dev time / resources” as an excuse, is not an excuse because, they will get paid the same regardless of whether they make something you like or not. Their pay check isn’t getting increased because players approved of some change. They didn’t take a pay cut because players disapproved. Thus it is a non argument and a non issue. The only argument this can give, is time to implement. (craft able precursor comes to mind)).

**Minor edit / addition / suggestion: Every single “additional option” should have a toggle. Mount’s toggle = on/off . (i think we already have mounts, but whatever). Same could be said for a lot of things, all the instruments, would love a toggle on those as well.

Kain Francois.4328:

I prefer less skimpy.

The over-abundance of skimpy armor is why I don’t play a female norn or human. (That, and the blatant over sexualization… Jesus christ, just look at the starter armor!)

Just gotta ask, how is there an over abundance of skimpy armor, when there are more that are not skimpy then are. You must have a very rigid version of skimpy, to say the above.

Not saying “you’re wrong” or the like, just generally curious what you’d be calling skimpy as the choices for light, while it has the most “skimpy” choices, it is not more prevalent compared to more modest choices. Simply put, from my perspective that are a lot more modest designs then skimpy. Someone posted earlier in the thread some numbers though it may be subjective for some choices.

Faowri.4159:

You see how trivial this is? How subjective it is? How arbitrary this is? What is “manly” isn’t objective fact. You can’t pin it down to scientific analysis of aesthetics based on anatomy or “grace” or any other gendered stereotype. It’s social stigma, nothing more, nothing less. Let people express themselves how they want to, regardless of sex and gender, and let’s all stop pretending we are in any way able to objectively define what is masculine and what is feminine.

(*Note, comments are not aimed solely at the quote but for several responses)

You can however scientifically show what has been the norm in FANTASY as all writing that specifically deal with it are not that old. This distinction should be held up in your mind very quickly before we try to go 100+ years (real world) in the past as D&D and its origins are not 100’s of years old. I used modern thoughts on styles as it is what most people are aware of, and most people are comfortable with to try and be descriptive. However it seems people want to pull the card to try and say oh blah blah blah was different, because I used real world references. It has NEVER been different in a fantasy setting of any kind from the 70’s onward where D&D began, and became more popular in the 80’s and onward. 1974 was the first publication if you want an exact date. Yes the game which started it all is not that old, though it is based on works and legends from various cultures that are older. So simply put real world has no meaning it was just something most people are “aware of” and can relate to.

Now then, as I said before, I’m all for more options so people can have whatever floats their boat. It changes nothing from my tastes, it simply adds more to the game.

As far as real world:
As to the comments of people wearing heavy armor in war, that is incorrect as most armies through out time were largely conscripts, most of which were farmers and more often then not, were not well equipped. It’s why several rulers though out the worlds history were able to rule all they saw simply because they had the equipment and trained soldiers, not conscripts that were little better then farmers armed with pitch forks. It should also be noted that England and countries near it were the only ones who ever wore heavy (eg PLATE) armor and this was often regulated to royalty or the wealthy and their guard, with some obvious exceptions of course. Everyone else did not wear heavy armor as it was far too restrictive and heavy to be useful. Archers for example were NEVER given heavy (or even “medium”) armor as it restricted their ability to use a bow and if their front lines got opened up, it left them as sitting ducks. (Granted with the onset of Calvary, this made it easy for them to be run down anyways.) You might also try looking up assassins as well (aka thieves, ninja or any other person who dealt with subterfuge) also never wore armor, as anything that could make sound and expose their location was a big no no. Medium armors generally thick leather or less was the norm, if they wore anything at all. And for a majority of people the latter was often the case.

Fenrina.2954:

Mmorpgs trace their roots back to MUDs (Multi-User Dungeon). Said roots are old and deep enough that experience with d&d is not applicable to an mmo.

Not sure I’d concur with this as most MUDs used simple “GOTO” writing and many of which were little more then choose your own path stories, there were never calculations being performed by the PC on these. An MMO RPG obviously uses calculations, which is by and large based on D&D. MMORPG’s are nothing like Zork, and those that predated it.

Spiral.3724:

Very cool outfit! I get irritated when I find an NPC that’s wearing clothes that I can’t find anywhere. The design is already drawn… just release it for us!

Here here!

Astral Projections.7320:

It’s all expectations. If you are used to seeing men in gowns ( another word for a dress) then it’s normal. If ballet had put men in tutus and not women, you would be used to that and be saying the opposite. Objectively speaking, how is a man in a tutu any less ridiculous than a woman in a tutu? And yes, any short male tubby cartoon character wearing a costume stereotyped only for a fit athletic female dancer will look funny.

You seem to be missing the point, there’s an obvious reason why men were not put in tutu’s (outside of some fetish or some form of cruel punishment). Lacey and frilly type fashion just isn’t manly. Works for females, some even have a defined grace that flows with it, but it’s hardly the pinnacle of masculinity. It looks cute on my 4 year old daughter. /shrug

So I’ll disagree with your “expectations”. Stereotyped? Perhaps, but by all means lets put the President of the U.S. or the Pope in one and see if they look any less ridiculous then Elmer Fudd. Tutu too much? Fine, have em wear Gothic Lolita. Tabloids would have a blast I’m sure, but your just not gonna see men wearing women’s clothes that have any dignity left, aren’t trying to get in some woman’s pants, or that are not trying to be some kind of special snow flake. Always people out there that want to assign some title to themselves as if it makes them special or that they deserve more attention, when the reality is they are just “different”. Congratulations, they are exactly like the rest of the people on the planet. Everyone’s different.

Simply put the game releases armors and styles based on generalizations of the fantasy norm, as it appeals to the broadest audience and is by and large considered acceptable, whether anyone wants to call it a stereotype or not. Trying to use euphemisms to hide the fact that generalizations that are well known, tested and on a much larger basis “approved” does not need to be changed because some special snow flakes like to complain. I’ve not seen anyone complain about adding more options, more options is always a good thing, and at this point the poll speaks for itself.

RedStar.4218:

And let’s just give up on medium armor. When you find a top that exposed the arms you have to deal with the coat/skirt that comes with it.

Most people have, at least those that don’t like the trench coat look. Thus why people tend to wear just a few different styles as there isn’t a large choice in the matter. Other armor types have way more choices, but even those need to be expanded by quite a margin.

Just a point of note, the options could be there if they’d just allow mixed armor visuals, with the way town clothes now work, there is literally NO REASON for the visuals to be assigned to only one armor type. Clipping issues? Some been in there since beta, not a valid excuse to prevent more options.

dkspins.4670:

Interesting experiment, Xovian. <smile> I can do my makeup in 2 minutes, and my hair in 2 or less (having children will do that to you LOL). You’re quite correct, the sexes are different. – Was trying to teach my SO to play (he’s since quit playing), and his responses over what armor he wore, were always “I don’t care”. ::sigh::

The T3 Cultural human chestpiece is what I wear on my thief, and I love it. Most medium armors are trenchcoats which I despise. I’m a woman, my toons are all female, and I want them to look like female, eos. Your wife and daughter have good taste <smile>

There are always exceptions, not to mention standards of comfort. While your daily routine may take that long, i doubt if you went to a friends wedding, as the maid of honor, the same time frame would occur. Simply put men really don’t care the majority of the time, if he likes something he likes it, if he doesn’t it isn’t going to matter. Women typically do not have the same approach to looks and style.

And I concur, trench coats galore are getting very old, I do agree with other posters that’s why the Human T3 is common, it’s one of the few good looking non trench coat choices. Thus it is also one of the most popular for human female characters. If they added a bit more non trench coats we’d see a bit more diversity. My mesmer who was my main since release up until recently, would have loved to have a non robe full leg length options, or that aren’t “Gothic Lolita” variants, but not seeing any.

I’m not against more options for anyone, more is always a good thing. But styles and what is considered stylish on male and female are very different…period. The t3 human female armor as an example if left with that looks like on a female character, would look significantly out of place on a male character. Not saying that an option for more revealing, sexy, or stylish or the like shouldn’t be possible but trying to fit a square peg through a round hole is a bit pointless. Not to mention a bit odd looking.

TL:DR- More options for everyone male and female…the right way to go. People trying to force equality with style just simply isnt stylish, and often the results are undesirable. Disagree? Lets put Elmer Fud in a Pink TUTU. Tell me you didn’t smile knowing how silly that looks. Cause I’d say your lying if it didn’t give a little giggle.

I really have to wonder sometimes. People keep trying to equate the sexes as being equal, and that they should also appear equal. What is good for one is not good for the other, and this is true for the reverse.

Okay lets try that social experiment, for those that feel argumentative. Ladies from now on you have 10 minutes or less to get ready when you are “going out”. As this is generally the time it takes for the male equivalent. Go ahead, let us know know how that date / bar scene goes.

My wife can’t even do her hair in 10 minutes, much less anything else lady wise, so I’m gonna ere on the side of caution and say most of the females here can’t either, at least not where they feel comfortable with themselves to be in public. (How you like that run on sentence).

Bottom line the sexes are different, and what is considered “beautiful” on each of those sexes varies greatly. Women complain when they don’t look like Barbie, or that they feel they should have to look like that instead of being comfortable with themselves, but all too often they forget that men typically don’t look like He-Man either. The difference is, most men don’t even try.

On a side note, my thief wears:
Head: Magnus’ Left Eye Patch
Chest: Human T3
Shoulders: Human t3
Arms: Human T3
Pants/Skirt: Magitech Leggings
Shoes: Whisper’s Secret Boots

Of all my characters, my wife thinks this is the “prettiest” and my daughter who’s 4 years old says “cutest” character I have. My thanks to the GW2 team for making a skirt that has multiple color palettes on it. Now if other armor types could also have such selections.

I’m still having a similar issue.
No matter what i try I just get a “process failed” message.

Paypal no longer even launches a web browser to login and authenticate.
Credit card just flat said “failed” and nothing more.

So i think something is still going on.

A secondary issue:
Also why is it when I changed my router recently GW2 site shows me coming from a different state (FL to be exact, I’m in TX, and every IT service out there that links physical locations of ipv4 address out there shows me in the correct location but your Routing system doesn’t (for allowing connections to the game and forum which requires authentication from email).

And yes, I went back to my old router to see if the router was preventing the gem store buying, even got my old ip address back as the lease had not yet expired. No dice.

Prior to this last month I had not ever had issues getting gems other then the daily buy limit.

Xykris.6758:

Power, Percision, Vitality

^That, no doubt. Been wondering why it isn’t in game for a very long time.

ungascarlo.7459:

i dont see it sorry.. what is the odd issue?

Try this one, its a close up view.

http://youtu.be/mm8Tc5wKBLU

Pause it at exactly 0:15, you’ll note her eyes are completely closed, and the half second before hand you see her shut them.

Note you never see the red spark dim or go away briefly when she is closing her eyes. You can see she is closing her eyes, thus it looks strange, I’ve put it in the bug forums in case its just a bug as well.

From a far view admittedly it’s not that noticeable, but on the hero tab it stands out too. Compare it to the glowing eyed necromancer mask and the difference is quite large. Given that its a gem store item, it seems corners got cut that shouldn’t have been.

TL:DR The necromancer mask is a blue version with out the tatoo and was done right, it works for every race, every size and all eye angles. This mask, should be no different in that regard to attention to detail.

*Edit, make sure you see no haze when watching the vid, as its a HD vid, if it seems hazy or out of focus it hasn’t loaded entirely. The character and the chat box text should be as clear as what you see when you play the game.

Edit#2:
Necromancer mask for comparison (w/ eye glow):
http://youtu.be/3WPTyscUdpg