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Scourge Support (I have my fingers crosed)

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Posted by: Zefiris.8297

Zefiris.8297

Well, let’s see. Scourge offers:

Barrier – not wanted

Literally the only people saying this are angry necro players. Everyone else realizes that barrier is strong, and has serious PVE potential that needs to be tested.

Strength – heavily contested

Might would be the perfect spot for scourges, actually. The main issue is the range the skill has atm. If that gets increased (alongside the inevitable damage nerf we’ll get) we might be good to go right there.

Healing – lol.

Who’d take a scourge for healing? That’s not the role. The actual role is condition cleanse, barrier, condi dps, and might stacking. With a few minor tweaks, that package would make us definitely actualy useful in PvE.

Dear Arena Net

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Posted by: Zefiris.8297

Zefiris.8297

Why do I feel like I am the only person in existence that likes Necro the way it is? The only change I was sad about was Signets of Suffering. That was my headlining trait in PvP that got me to Platinum for the first time.

I genuinely feel that Necro is in a good spot. I never have trouble in any LFG group I’ve ever joined.

Some people like actually being as effective as other classes in PVE.
We can join groups, yes, but we’re simply by far the least effective when it comes to anything that matters in PVE, UNLESS there’s a lot of enemies at once.

That’s why.

Scourge come 22nd

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Zefiris.8297

I hope every condi reaper goes scourge.
I hope every good reaper stays reaper.

If every pve condi reaper goes scourge, then there are no good pve reapers left. :P

@Topic: I expect the nerf cries to get the class to dumpster tier.
If I am wrong, I will have a happy surprise for me. If I’m not wrong, well, my expectations were met. This is basically a general pessimist’s way of remaining positive.

There are actually many nerf angles. Dhuumfire can get an ICD, Demonic Lore can lose the +torment damage bonus, the expertise we get from scourge can be reduced/removed, life force cost can be increased, and torment stacks from F1-5 can be removed/reduced. There’s plenty of ways they can nerf us.

Already rumored on reddit that its bin nerfed behind the scenes with ICD,Duration times aso.

Reddit is an echo chamber filled with very angry people that, much like many people in this forum, have a bit of a persecution complex. This is true for any game.

This does not technically make them true. :P

Scourge: Demonic Lore too good ?

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Posted by: Zefiris.8297

Zefiris.8297

Dhuumfire is a lot stronger than it. The 33% Torment damage is far stronger than people like Brujeria realize, but it is still not strong enough to be the obvious pick.

It’s likely only mandatory for a pure DPS role, in which case it does put us in a fairly good spot if one also takes dhuumfire and uses a MH dagger.

Will scourge be enough to become raid viable?

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Zefiris.8297

Ask again few weeks after release…

(Reaper is perfectly fine for raids, no matter what people are saying)

If “fine” means that it is possible to do a raid with a reaper in the group, then your statement is true.
Unfortunately, everyone else defines “perfectly fine” as “not the worst option by far”. In nearly every situation and raid setup, any other class you pick does more for a raid group. Even an elementalist has an easier time to do far more damage.

So yes, no matter what you are saying, you’re wrong. Reaper isn’t fine: Reaper does significantly less damage in a raid, brings a benefit for only two encounters, and contributes nothing unique. To make a reaper fine, one of two things would need to happen:

-Unique Support that is useful to a group
-Equal DPS

Reaper has neither.

Scourge, at least, has potential for both. The DPS may be competitive (it sure is much higher than reaper), and it is possible the support will come in useful enough to run one.

(edited by Zefiris.8297)

Minionmancer Scourge

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Zefiris.8297

Privateer seems bad. Like, really bad, wasted stats all over. Pick Aristocracy instead, the might duration is WAY better than 3 stacks of might that need YOU to get hit.

especially in a 5 scourge fractal team

If this ever works out well, it’ll be nerfed to the ground, so I’d not plan for this.

Shadow Fiend, on the other hand, seems to be a generally great contender, probably to be run alongside Dessicate if you want to grant might, and without Dessicate if you don’t.

And yeah, Blood Magic seems pretty good on scourge indeed. If Dhuumfire will be nerfed, Blood Magic will likely become THE mandatory line for scourges.

Is shroud really that good?

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Zefiris.8297

Unpopular factoid:
Despite shroud’s current state, we are still really good in PVP. This means that PVP buffs, ESPECIALLY in terms of stability, would likely make us close to OP, if not OP.

Necros do not have trouble in PVP. We’re a focus target, precisely because our defense is not one of the absolute damage prevention defenses, but there will ALWAYS a focus target, it being us is not an inherent problem.

Any post that argues that we need PVP buffs will likely be discarded by the devs, because Necros simply do not need such buffs. The only area in the game where necros really need help is PVE.

From that perspective, is shroud really that good?
In PVP, yes, but in PVE; no, because the extra survivability doesn’t matter. It doesn’t even matter in the open world. So what, then, is the issue with the shroud in PVE?

Well, damage. It limits all your utility options, while not granting useful damage (no, ice fields are not a good damage option, not in realistic situations).

It would likely go a long way to add a grand master trait to soul reaping that allows utility skill usage in shroud (add it to Death Perception, maybe), and add another elsewhere in soul reaping that removes the incoming damage reduction and converts it to an outgoing damage bonus.

Necromancers need a rework

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Zefiris.8297

And now we have traits that trigger when using Shroud skills 1,2,4. Now as I heard Dhuumfire is suppose to work well with the sand shades (or so they think).

Math proves this beyond reasonable doubt. So no, it’s not that people “think” this, it’s simply that it is implemented this way, and is the only way for dhuumfire to work as it should.

Now I’m not here to argue about that, but I know that for them to trigger you need to spam F1-F5 and those use up life force. So if you can’t keep restoring life force fast enough mid combat it’s not going to work so well in the end. And mostly from what I heard people say it will make an excellent condi build due to Dhuumfire spam, but it seems they are forgetting that the scepter is probably the worst weapon for life force management.

You “heard people say”, scepter is “probably” bad. Your problem is that you have not actually tried the spec, and know little about it. Nor did you think your own argument through.

Yes, the scepter is bad for life force management. But nobody is forcing you to use scepter.

We already know spamming F1-F5 is an option, because we tried it. It works, and it works well. All you need to do is not spam scepter. It’s that easy.

However worst of all is Transfusion because Garish Pillar is not a skill that channels, but is instead instant effect. And Transfusion can be a life saver when needed, I often used it to pull downed party members out of AoE field. Now it probably still will be able to pull out but because the other 2 skills were channeled I had often time to get close enough if the downed player was too far away when I first activated it, with instant effect however I will just have to hope I am close enough.

Here you show your utter cluelessness about the spec, and your refusal to read a thing about it. What you describe is not how transfusion works as scourge. We know this, since we already tried it.

Transfusion still pulses, and is stronger on scourge than on any other necromancer spec right now. It even heals YOU, unlike shroud transfusion, which can’t.

This right here is the issue with your post: You have no clue what you are talking about, and thus your entire point is nonsense.

No wonder you’re similarly confused about the druid, or the role a scourge would have. Hint: Scourges aren’t meant to replace druids.

Is power reaper usable?

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Zefiris.8297

In raids: Absolultely not, power reaper is way, way, way too weak for that. If you do not have a guild that is fine with carrying you and you not contributing, you may be able to play it, but you’ll be a leech on your guild, mostly. Pugs will most likely kick you.

In fractal pugs, if you do your rotation really well, you’ll do as much DPS as other bad players with bad builds, so it’s generally mostly fine. But do expect a kick if you try challenge mote runs with this performance, unless the rest of the group isn’t exceptional

tl, dr: it’s possible to play a power reaper, but you’re essentially handicappying yourself if you do so.

Give Reaper A Unique Buff

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Zefiris.8297

I feel group utility should be given the base necromancer.

Blood is the obvious line to add this to. I’d change Vampiric Rituals, Vampiric or Blood Bond into

Blood Corruption
Enemies hit by your attacks corrupt the blood of the hit enemy for 6 seconds.
These enemies take 3% additional damage from party members. Attacks against these enemies have 150 additional ferocity.

This makes it useful for parties, but is different in flavor to, say, GOTL. IT is more offensive oriented, fitting the necromancer’s corruption theme.

In addition, I would increase the power scaling of dagger and greatsword, and give reaper a trait that increases the effectiveness of ferocity, incentivicing ferocity equipment.

(edited by Zefiris.8297)

"We do not accept any Necromancers."

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Zefiris.8297

I believe their response to that topic is being drawn out of context to suit ops argument.

Cool class. Cool devs.

  1. They made good guides which are actually really helpful, so thanks to them for that. Seems the Fractal developer agrees.
  2. They run a speedclearing guild, and Necromancer’s are not optimal for speedclearing so they don’t want any. Let them run a guild how they want to.
  3. These two things are completely unrelated, and so your post is grasping at straws to justify whatever point you’re trying to make.

Click on the Necromancer class guide on their site and tell me what happens.

“Thanks for making these!”

If thats what you took from it you missed the point of the thanks.

You’re mixing a guilds personal feelings towards a class and what the devs are actually thanking them for. The two things, like Rising said, are completely unrelated. You’re trying to make it that the devs condoning how the guild personally look at necro and not how inherently useful videos detailing mechanics etc are for people who either find an encounter difficult etc.

You are literally trying to make it something its not.

So since the Dev went through it, is he aware Necro needs buffs?

A dev giving a guide a reply does not mean he read every single sentence, clicked every link, looked at every image and every video, and then carefully considered a response.

That dev is also not responsible for class balance.

Please, stop embarassing your fellow necros with this pathetic, wimpering behavior. Our class has issues, but hounding a dev for a good natured comment is absolutely counterproductive and makes us all look like little, whiny brats.

(And that aside: I cannot blame the guild. A guild focused on SPEEDRUNNING obviously doesn’t want necros. Our DPS in fractals is mediocre to low, I can outdps my own necro easily with half the other classes. Necros, in their current state, are not a speedrunning class. We’re more an enthusiasts class, more comparable to an oldtimer that is driven for the fun of it, not for maximum effectiveness. This isn’t fine. I’d like this changed. But until it is changed, it just makes sense for a high-efficiency guild to give us a pass)

(edited by Zefiris.8297)

Scourge Beta Review and Analysis [Video]

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Zefiris.8297

I hope u are right, we will see in less then a month, but if u think Scourge isnt going to be nerfed then I wonder if u really tried it.

Actually, I said I expect it to be nerfed, resulting it being utterly useless in PVE.

What is strong in PVP is not strong in PVE. In fact, it’s often nowhere near good enough. Look at reaper, it does pretty good damage in PVP, and is considered a complete joke in PVE. Even good fractal guilds laugh about reapers, reaper parties are usually considered noob schools.

For good reason: I can do far more damage on an elementalist or a ranger than on a reaper. And if I bring a Condi PS Warrior, the damage I bring to the group is obscene.

As for the Duumfire IMHO it will proc on every F skills, but will not proc on each tick of F5

Will probably make our damage non-competitive, so this is indeed one of the changes I’m expecting

Dear Arena Net

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Zefiris.8297

Who knows, maybe… just maybe… the devs will read and pay attention.

im just trying to not laugh here…

i swear to my necromancer char…. IF an ACTUAL DEV not a community manager or forum moderator or soemthing like that but an ACTUAL DEV comes in here and post something Positive about this…

i go and buy gems for irl money….. at that moment…while spinning on my back…

pfffff i know it this thread will be ignored…. who needs good sensible sugestions am i right ? definetly not the devs that have no clue what to do with necro and just driving it into dirt with every update thats for sure….

The duty of a dev is not to reply to unhinged people on forums. If devs had to talk to people on the forum for every perceived problem, PoF would release in 2022.

I can tell you by experience working for bigger companies than Anet that suggestions like this thread are heard, and are considered.

Among a mountain of other feedback, including tickets, player discussions, and marketing demands. An individual thread, as nice as it reads, is just one voice among many, all equally valid.

Main Hand Dagger Condi

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Zefiris.8297

The suggestion to add condi on dagger is such a blatant attempt at power creep that I can’t even believe anyone would think this a serious suggestion.

The problem with redditors like you is your strange, and slightly bewildering idea that this is a)power creep and b)bad. No idea why you guys even have this power creep meme, because it’s really, really silly.

If something is bad and unused, buffing it is not “power creep” or whatever word salad you want to shout, it’s bringing it up to par.

Scourge Beta Review and Analysis [Video]

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Zefiris.8297

AGAIN, math.

Dhuumfire proccing on F1 only means that you can do this:
-Spawn three shades, each causing a single 3s burn
-Spawn another shade every 15 seconds → 1 burn/15s.

Result: Burst 3 burns, 1burn every 15s.

This means you are traiting a GM trait for 3 burns and then one every 15s. Can ANYONE tell me with a straight face that this is not complete garbage?

(edited by Zefiris.8297)

Scourge Beta Review and Analysis [Video]

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Zefiris.8297

Well I really dont think Dhuumfire is suppose to taick 7x on F5 , do u ?

Actually, I do. The adjustment for F5 I am asking for is that it cannot stack. In some situation, right now it can stack between multiple shades, and THAT is what is broken.

Remember: Multiple burn stacks on one ability isn’t broken.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bonfire

Look at this skill, for example. Is this broken? And before you answer, remember the weapon swap trait. You can use bonfire a LOT more than it looks.
Obviously not the same, but again: If F5 does less than 4 burns, it’s likely just not good enough.

We see what Anet does but I have a strong feeling that they will nerf Scourge condi output, and not the AoE cause they talked it up as having battlefield control.

And I really really hope they dont adjust the F-skills cd’s so then what is left ? either the Burns or Torment

I expect them to nerf our condi output. The result will be that we will have another spec that is useless in PVE, to the point that serious guilds actively refuse necromancers as they do now.

And here’s the deal. Let’s assume the condi output is nerfed, dhuumfire only procs on spawning a shadow (and is therefore one of the worst GM traits in the game). What happens? Well, in PVP, there’s no battlefield control anymore. The reason scourge has battlefield control is the area denial using the F abilities. Taking the bite out of them makes them not controlly at all.

(edited by Zefiris.8297)

Scourge Beta Review and Analysis [Video]

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Zefiris.8297

My only hope is they touch Dhuumfire and how it works on the F-Skills and NOT the actual F-Skills but nerfed or “altered” it will be.

So, you are hoping for dhuumfire to be completely useless for scourge?

You do realize that removing the dhuumfire functionality from F2-F5 means that we have a GRANDMASTER trait that gives 1 burn every 15 seconds, right?

That’s supremely bad.

Dhuumfire isn’t the problem, it’s one of the few things making us PVE viable.

raidgroup setup with new elite specs-changes?

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Posted by: Zefiris.8297

Zefiris.8297

In WoW, you used to have similar mandatory buffs that meant some classes were always taken, while others never were.

The solution there was spreading the buffs around.

Lvl 40 fractal farm meta toxicity

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Posted by: Zefiris.8297

Zefiris.8297

Easy to explain.

Everyone that joined did not think it was a L40 relaxed farm, they thought it was a hardcore meta only speedclear farm – ie, that thing where four people do the job and the fifth person leeches.

Except all of them except one wanted to be that leech.

Scourge. "When entering shroud"

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Zefiris.8297

Tadsoul, you may not notice this, but your suggestion essentially nerfs scourge to the ground :/

Your version of Dhuumfire pretty much kills the pressure we can apply, for example.
The new traits are NOT weak with scourge. Many of them are stronger, in fact.

This is funny the moment necro..

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OP, you don’t get it.

Scourge does have aspects to it that are ridiculously OP.
Specifically, damage wise, I managed to get multiple shades to pulse on one target several times. Including the F5.

This is beyond broken. IF you do not understand why this is broken, that lack of understanding is why you performed poorly as a Scourge. Other classes cannot do this, and we know from the design videos this is not intended.

If you did not (ab)use this, then you obviously don’t get what this is all about, because you just used the skills in the indended way. Nobody wants to nerf that.

Weapon for Scourge?

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Zefiris.8297

Scepter/Dagger and Dagger/Torch for anything that isn’t a big group fight, no contest, even as condi.

The life force is just too good and outdoes the scepter damage significantly.

Ideas to help Power Reaper

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Zefiris.8297

Needs only a few changes, really.

Deathly Chill – doesn’t do bleed anymore. Instead, enemies with chill take 30% more damage. Yeah, drastic, but power reaper needs this number in PVE.

Deathly Spiral – bonus damage against chilled or feared foes

Greatsword 1,3,4,5 – bonus damage against chilled or feared foes

Greatsword 4,5 – reduced cooldown when hitting feared or chilled foes

Greatsword 2 – reduced cooldown when hitting chilled or feared foes (not instant, but perhaps by 50%)

Full Support Scourge Gameplay [Video]

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Zefiris.8297

I had a blast, and I already want the build back ;__;

I know how you feel. If I could swap my necroreaper to a scourge right now, I would.

Really nice to hear about the punishments. I admit I forgot to test the snakes on the weekend, that skill may be a sleeper hit for the playstyle I am looking for.

Interesting feedback on the other utilities. I admit that I saw Dessicate as the only worthwhile punishment, and its good to see I may have been wrong indeed. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Full Support Scourge Gameplay [Video]

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Zefiris.8297

Looks like you had quite some fun there

I’m actually very surprised at your utility choices. How did all the punishments do in your opinion? Most see them as fairly weak (and I admit, I am still uncertain on several of them), would you keep them as they are in the future, or do you think regular skills will turn out better.

Glad others see value in a somewhat supporty scourge, too. Sometimes it feels like I’m the only one that does, at least in this forum >_>

What is even point of BIG SHADE ?

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I swear some players are so used to being kitten on that have come to accept it as normal and that they are noble martyrs for supporting the nerfs. If Scourge does get nerfed are they going to cheer?

You are projecting very hard. Most people do not have persecution complexes like this. They are just smarter than you.

See, let’s say you get your will, and we ship totally overpowered. People fear us! The forums get flooded with whines.

Arenanet will then have to nerf us to the ground. We’ll be OP for a week, and useless forevermore. Last five years should have tought you this outcome, it happened every time we had a few overpowered days.

A more intelligent approach is ensuring we’re great, not OP. That’s why I’m advocating to fixing solely the extremes (such as shades stacking when they shouldn’t, and perhaps removing a tick from our F5). At that point we’d still be awesome.

You can cry about “nerf herding”, but it’s simply the sensible solution.

Berserker or Viper

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Zefiris.8297

Ascended gear can be stat swapped in the mystic forge. So just wait. Get more pieces if you can. Once the expansion hits, you can decide what you will need for the spec you want

See here: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Anthology_of_Heroes

Dear Arena Net

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Zefiris.8297

It ‘needs’ to be a selfish class etc.. but why?

Again, you misunderstand what “selfish class” means. It’s not a theme, it’s nothing a necro/reaper needs to be, it what these two ARE. It’s the core design from the beginning.

Just look at shroud. It’s the poster child of this design. Unlike the defensive capabilities of many other classes, it cannot be shared. Aegis? Can be shared. Mesmers/Chronos can even share Distortion. The “selfishness” of the design is simply our class core, changing it would require either an overhault, or splitting PvP/PvE skills.

Remember, the design works for us in two game modes, it just fails us in the third (and, for me, most important one).

That’s the only angle we can really use to change it. Arguing past the actual design simply makes all our feedback worthless. If we don’t acknowledge reality, we’ll get nowhere.

Let me say this again: I want reaper to be buffed to raid viability.

Sure we got barrier and a lot of this can change based on how viable and needed it actually is but outside of that what is there? From what I can tell there are some might stacking potential which multiple classes already do but nothing along the lines of Grace of the Land, Glyph of Empowerment, Spotter, Spirits, Banners, Alacrity etc..

You are severly underestimating the scourge in its current form. What it brings is pretty high DPS, might stacking, and raid-wide defense in one character. Might stacking costs us nothing, nor does barrier spam, we just apply it as part of our rotation. This makes us a pretty good slot and usable – better and more consistent DPS than reaper coupled with might coupled with barrier (and of course epidemic) is worth to bring.

Maybe not meta for every encounter, sure, but most classes aren’t. As long as we are worth to bring, we’ll be fine.

Dear Arena Net

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Zefiris.8297

So what about all the classes that excel in all 3 game modes?

Also isn’t this what specs and builds are for – so a class can at least have a chance in all facets of the game? For PVE Necro and its specs clearly need buffs and this can be seen by objective measures.

Cut the persecution complex, and read my post again. I never said, nor implied, nor argued that necros should not excel in three game modes.

The point is simple: Base necro, and reaper, ARE de facto selfish classes. This is not a judgement, it’s a design. In most MMOs, the majority of DPS classes are exactly the same.

It just happens that in GW2, our low DPS, coupled with the “selfish” nature of the inherent design, makes us less (or least) desirable in raids.

That’s it. I personally want this changed, but you cannot advocate for meaningful change if you are unwilling to face simple reality. It’s a verifyable fact that the designers consider necros to be a selfish class (which, again, only people with a persecution complex see as an attack, the rest of us recognize what that term means), so what we need to communicate is that, while it gets us far in PvE and WvW, it makes us lacking in PvE:

Scourge bringing support AND DPS is a start to fix it, but reaper (and/or base necro) also need help.

[Feedback]Path of Fire Elite Specialization Preview - August 18-20

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Zefiris.8297

A lot of the OP damage that PvP players seem to be experiencing at the moment seems to be coming from Dhuumfire triggering off all F skills rather than just F1. Hopefully this is a bug and gets fixed so Scourge doesn’t suffer further nerfs in other areas.

This is exactly the kind of feedback that will make scourge in PVE utterly useless. If Dhuumfire does only trigger on F1, the spec is pretty much dead, damage wise. Dhuumfire, right now, is mandatory for competitive damage. Without it, we simply don’t have the numbers.

If Dhuumfire must be changed, make sure to split the trait, working only on F1 in PVP/WvW, and working as it is now (and as it should) in PvE

Do note that Dhuumfire only working on F1 will make this trait completely worthless – it means one burn every 15 seconds(!), 10 if you trait sand savant, which already reduces your damage output and provides more burn in itself.

A single stack of burn on shade placement every 15 seconds is possible worth it on a minor trait, it’s absolutely not a grandmaster trait.

(edited by Zefiris.8297)

[Feedback]Path of Fire Elite Specialization Preview - August 18-20

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Zefiris.8297

Scourge – a great spec that can do both support and damage beautifully. This is what I wanted when I first rolled a necromancer in the first beta weekend. This right here.
Please make sure not to overnerf it based on early PVP feedback. At most fix the damage possible by stacking shades, but allow it to do damage and some support just like other supporty builds can. We need the support and damage potential it offers in the necromancer class.

IF a PVP nerf is needed, be absolutely sure to SPLIT SKILLS. PVE will suffer utterly if these numbers get tuned down.

(edited by Zefiris.8297)

Scourge thoughts

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Zefiris.8297

Seriously, what’s even up with the nerf posts on every single board? We got to play the specs for ONE WEEKEND. Nobody has any idea what they are doing and no theorycraft or strategy has been developed around including the altered environment

The thing is, there are genuine “bugs” (assuming the dev commentary is accurate, which it should be) with the spec that should not work the way they do. These, in specific situations, do provide absolutely ridiculous damage.

This is what other classes see, since a good scourge player can just kill people faster than a thief when using these quirks, aka shade overlapping.

These should be fixed.

[vT]Hobo: Viper Scourge Beta Weekend Video

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Demonic Lore is already a 3s icd, I don’t think increasing the icd to 5s will really have a difference. Nerfing dhuumfire’s affect with desert shroud seems like a better option, since the condi burst that alone puts out is insane.

If they do this, I sure hope they do this in a way that doesn’t affect PVE, because this could seriously gut our viability there.

What is even point of BIG SHADE ?

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the 1/2 CD isn’t really the bad thing for me, the 15s recharge for the ammo is.

Some people said each ammo count recharges individually, but that’s just not the case for me, making the upkeep of two shades fairly clunky. I managed over 5 minutes, but it was fairly involved, and seems fairly unrealistic in a real fight when you also need to move and stuff.

Scourge thoughts

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Zefiris.8297

maybe dhummfire (if I spelled that right) needs a rework with how it works.?

That’d really kill our PVE viability, I fear, unless it’s limited to reducing the fire pulsing of F5. Dhuumfire is the very reason scourge has this high a burst potential (sustained with the right weapon choice in PVE…right now).

What is even point of BIG SHADE ?

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Posted by: Zefiris.8297

Zefiris.8297

Scourge lesson: Never forget that you’re also a shade! Make this aspect less good overall, true.

The range argument remains the same though. 180 is very small indeed, it’s little more than the range of a dagger melee attack.

What is even point of BIG SHADE ?

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Posted by: Zefiris.8297

Zefiris.8297

But, you can add raid-wide barrier without the big shade. You only need 1 shade up to cover everyone, regular or greater.

Sand Cascade has a limit of five by default. The trait buffs this to ten.

I may be suffering from Alzheimer or something, but I definitely remember checking for that, and seeing a limit of five for the untraited one.

(It also boosts the range, which is also important for a progress group. Remember, base radius is only 180, the big shade boosts it to 300. A group that does not have a boss on farm is likely not as stacked as you’d want them to be, so the radius increase would also help a ton, because the very people that tend to be in places they shouldn’t be are the people needing barrier the most)

Scourge thoughts

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Zefiris.8297

I sincerely believe scourge needs some PvP nerfing. Not much, but some.

-Some shade abilities do stack. letting multiple shades affect the same target. They definitely should not do this, this interaction needs a nerf/bugfix
-The pulse on F5 is absurd in PvP

Do notice that I am absolutely a scourge advocate, and want to play one. I am not saying this to ruin the class. Quite the opposite, scourge as it is now is probably my favorite idea of a class in the game. And I absolutely fear that they will overnerf us to appease complaints.

But some changes are probably warranted.

What is even point of BIG SHADE ?

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Zefiris.8297

still does not worth it for the loss of the HUGE dmg increase you get from the other trait….

The funny thing is, it is entirely possible that you are wrong here.
If scourge has a raidspec, it might actually use the big shade, not Demonic Lore.
This trait means you only need one scourge for timed barrier casts, it means you have easy access to 100% boon duration for might, and in an organized group can therefore replace one of the PS warriors while also adding raid wide survivability.

This is not useful for groups that have content on farm, but groups that do not can certainly use this quite well. Imagine at Slothasar, you can easily help the group with might, while adding raid-wide barrier, allowing everyone a significant buffer to effective health to allow an overall safer run. The same scourge also contributes epidemic and CPC for the worms, not to mention possibly even transfusion (which, as I may remind you, is definitely better on scourge than on reaper)

Low amounts of Barrier are probably not supergood against PvP foes, but in a regular PvE fight, they can routinely make a difference, especially if conditions are on the table. Which the scourge also mass-cleanses at a ridiculous pace and no cost to the scourge – it’s a side effect of the main rotation! And the big shade makes this raid wide.

Don’t underestimate this trait. Its utility is extreme while learning content.

But then, if scourge remains as is, and doesn’t get a significant nerf, I’d probably prefer bringing a scourge over a druid to 99/100 CM, especially when pugging, since it brings much higher personal damage, and a huge safety net for the group.

[Vid&Analysis]Scourge PoV in large-scale WvW

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Zefiris.8297

You’ll get a lot of naysayers, but what you say is unfortunately true.

This is why people complain about scourge. And they aren’t even wrong.

My sincere hope is that this will be handled not by nerfing scourge to the ground, so it’s balanced in wvwvw (and therefore trash in PvE), but by splitting PvE and PvP/WvWvW versions of our skills.

Staff Rework

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Posted by: Zefiris.8297

Zefiris.8297

Yes please. Make staff viable in PVE.

If this requires a skill split, so be it.

Main Hand Dagger Condi

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Zefiris.8297

Compared to what dagger? Mainhand is literally useless for condi as it is

It has no conditions, this is true. And yet…

…at least in the (not super representative) tests we could do, I always outdamaged a scepter only build with it. Every time. Staff, too, I outdamaged (tho that is probably less representative, because groups might make staff better).

If the life force from dagger outperforms the scepter conditions, then dagger is a reasonable choice even if it is a power weapon.

Of course, I kept the time in dagger to a minimum, but also remember that we do not use shroud in this build, meaning we can switch from and to dagger on cooldown, which synergizes heavily with “on weapon swap” sigils.

Staff Rework

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Zefiris.8297

Staff so bad that wayyyy too many Necromancers use it.

In PvE, nobody with a clue uses it much at all.

Scourge Bug List

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Zefiris.8297

Oppressive Collapse requires you to be stationary. Clearly a bug.

Oppressive Collapse gives allies might, but not you (at least it never gave me might).

Main Hand Dagger Condi

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Zefiris.8297

I’m starting to think for PVE scourges will run staff of all things.

I genuinely don’t see how. It seems to be a dps loss compared to dagger. Staff pretty much needs Terror (competes with Master of Corruption), Terrifying Descent and Soul Marks to be any good, at which point you sunk two traits into it and lost Master of Corruption.

And Terror just looks… bad.

I’d rather have traits that proc on F1 to also proc on staff to give that weapon a bit more of a purpose. But the idea of these traits additonally modify a certain weapon skill or AA is actually quite nice.

Agreed, it seems awesome. Should have more traits that actually change weapons in a bigger way.

(edited by Zefiris.8297)

Scourge WvW Solo Roaming thoughts

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Zefiris.8297

Holosmiths are easy because most of them don’t understand that they can still use non-holosmith utilities. They will improve soon, once they realize Elixirs still exist.

How's the scourge op???

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Zefiris.8297

All the shroud f skills actually do a lot less overall damage then the reaper skills.

This is false. Right now, shroud F skills easily outdamage reaper by a significant margin if both reaper and scourge trait dhuumfire.

People crying about necros being strong

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Zefiris.8297

Told you scourge was strong.

And it really, really, is. Even if people move. My only hope is that it won’t get nerfed to oblivion. People are already crying for it to be nerfed, after all.

Dear Arena Net

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Zefiris.8297

If this isn’t the case i would urge management to get involved because clearly there are people who have their own agenda, opinions and or values.

Wow.

Yes, in Arenanet, there are people. These people, shockingly, have opinions, values, and agendas. Even more SHOCKINGLY, these people decide what X class is about, usually in some form of design document!
Thinking that this is something that “management needs to get involved into” is downright insane. “Go see a doctor and get help” level of insane. I’m not even trying to be insulting. You have a persecution complex that you REALLY should try to get help for.

Yes, necros are a selfish class by design. This isn’t new: Necros have always been more about supporting themselves than others, by design. The entire design of the shroud is pretty much the personification of this. This isn’t even a bad thing, inherently. It makes necros/reapers highly successful in two of the three main game modes.

Scourge is a bit more supporty to offer an alternative for that. That’s a good thing too, because it splits necros up a bit more, like other classes can diversify.

(edited by Zefiris.8297)

[Beta feedback] After playing 8 hours testing

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Zefiris.8297

Yes,I know that. What I’m saying is that a burning proc on F5 is a BUG.

Sure, sure, the part on the tooltip explaining what F1 does is clearly a bug. Clearly, this functionality magically appeared out of thin air, and was not coded in to specifically work this way.

In reality, the sand shades not applying Dhuumfire on use of F5 is the default behavior on skill implementation. A designer had to go in there and specifically ensure that Dhuumfire works on all shroud skills.

Totally a bug, sure. Just like characters jumping when you hit the jump button is clearly a bug!