Guild Wars 2

rabidsmiles.5926:

Do we have a Rune set in mind yet for the new PvE Mesmer or will the old stand by of Scholar > Everything be in place?

So far it looks like Scholars will remain the goto runes for PvE.

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

For heavy reflects, as weird as it feels, I would drop dueling and go dom, inspiration, illusions.

I feel Fencer’s Finesse giving Ferocity on hit and Harmonious Mantra providing those dmg modifiers is too valuable for reflects to ignore. I wonder if Blurred Frenzy hitting 8 times would give 8 stacks of FF, which is +120 ferocity. In addition to already existing FF stacks those FF stacks would be a pretty massive dps boost for reflect, especially since ferocity does transfer to phantasms too.

Zenith.7301:

You have the alternative of furious interruptions instead of blurred inscriptions, using signet of inspiration to align with it is a nice touch of quickness for allies if you don’t need the extra defense. Plus using a sw/sw set you’ll have a pretty low cd on interrupts.

I’ve tried using quickness on interrupt in dungeons but with how bosses have defiance and when they don’t you still want to keep defiance off for the icebow freeze, I found myself almost never getting a chance to properly proc the quickness. This is why I figured faster healing signet CD is a better choice. Also, when you do go and specialize in Inspiration for reflects, the synergy between Blurred Inscriptions and Inspiring Distortion might prove to be quite amazing. AoE invuln on demand!

Zenith.7301:

And as for Illusions, I prefer master of fragmentation over Ineptitude. aoe diversion is actually valuable, beefier mind wrack for bursting with chronophantasm, and it makes Cry of Frustration less garbage (though we’ll probably never use it still).

The reason for taking Ineptitude is I figured confusion ticks probably will add up to more dmg than the dmg from extra 10% crit on F1. I do find myself evading/blocking so much that confusion just may prove to be quite a valuable addition. Also, AoE diversion might also be an overkill too especially when you have mantra of distraction slotted in. Basically, it’s a tradeoff between dmg and utility and if there is time where that utility might be good, I’ll slot that trait. OOC trait swapping is 2nd nature to us, lol.

I also prefer mantra of pain over mantra of resolve, lower recharge in case you need to get the 12% damage buff back up.

I think this would make sense at for lupi. In experienced parties you don’t really need condi cleanse and burst spamming mantras, especially mantra of pain, to build up those +4% dps stacks is good idea. Currently, you typically have 2 mantras for lupi which add up to only ~8% dps boost. Post patch, if you go all out and time FB right you may pull off 4 stacks which add up to 17% dps boost! However, for slower pugs you might actually want that condi cleanse and your dps spike might not be worth the tradeoff.

The point of this thread is to collectively do some theorycrafting for mesmers who plan on running dungeons. Open world, WvW, and PvP discussion does not belong here.

DPS:

• http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-R;4k203107RWV71;9;4STW;0147056046;45sY0y;9;0kMy_0V10j

Reflect:

• http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-R;4k203107RWV71;9;4STV;0147056238;45sY0y;9;0kMy_0V10h

Condi:

• http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-R;4k2l51U7wUV71;9;4TUW;0258146048;45sY0y;9;0F81-NYih

No actual math was done but I do think these builds should be close to whatever will be meta for their respective purpose. If anyone wants to pitch in with ideas, corrections, comments, etc – feel free to do so. We have only 1 week before the patch drops

SlimChance.6593:

Mimic only refreshes 1 utility skiill not all of them. Your NEXT one.
So Mimic>Portal/Blink… only the Portal’s cd is reduced.

Well, kitten. Got too excited and missed the most important part.

XD

Fay.2357:

You’re misunderstanding both how f5 works and how the portal thing will work.

F5 saves your character state, enabling you to revert back to it. It does not inherently refresh anything.

As per the notes, if you use the skill portal while another of your portals is active, the old one will be destroyed.
You can never have more than 1 active portal.

I think I do understand how F5 would work but for some unknown reason in my brainstorm stage earlier I assumed F5 would refresh skills, which it wouldn’t, and that got me confused. Thought that last part about portals, I understand and I don’t think it’ll hinder anything. Here’s the process in a bit more detail

1. Slot in Mimic, Portal, Blink.
2. Open portal, blink, lay exit. Let your party take that portal.
3. Portal/Blink are now on CD but Mimic is still off CD.
4. F5 to “save” your state.
5. Use Mimic. In 1 sec Blink/Portal are off CD
6. Open portal, blink, lay exit once again. Your party takes the 2nd portal.
7. F5 to revert to saved state (and hope it doesn’t destroy the currently open portal)
8. Use the still open portal
9. Use Mimic to refresh portal
10. In 1 sec both Portal and Blink are off CD again
11. Do the 3rd portal.

How does this logic sound?

spoj.9672:

Curtain is unreliable for a full 1 shot. Problem solved?

Hmm, doubt it. I’ve 1 shot lupi 99% of the time when I used curtain. I don’t think it’s any more difficult than dropping WoR, just have to be a bit more precise on the placement (top of the wall, not the side like you could with WoR).

Oh I meant portal one after another, not simultaneously.

1. Portal entry, blink 1200, portal exit
2. F5
3. Portal entry, blink 1200, portal exit
5. F5 and use your previously laid portal
6. Mimic
7. Portal entry, blink 1200, portal exit

Unless I’m misundestanding how F5 would work…

F5 resets all your skills.
Mimic resets your utilities.

Tripple portal? 9x stability? Full 1xF3 & 2xF1 shatter combo?

I think I’m getting dizzy just thinking of all possibilities you would pull off with these two

Zenith.7301:

Meanwhile mesmer lost illusionary invigoration, so they got no vigor period.

Illusionary Invigoration recharges shatters at 50%, nothing to do with vigor.

> Critical Infusion: Gain vigor for 5s when you critical hit.

That trait is still here.

Inspiring Distortion: Whenever you grant distortion to yourself, you also grant it to nearby allies for 1 second (5s ICD)

This along with Blurred Inscriptions would open up a whole another way to protect your party from killing blows in dungeons. Fortunately the other 2 traits in same tier are trash so if you are traiting for reflects, this new trait is a freebie

Phantasmal Haste: Phantasms attack skill recharge is reduced by 20%, causing them to attack more often. Fixed a bug which cause this trait to have no effect on some phantasms.

FINALLY the warden will get some of that PH love, hopefully…

Haven’t given the new trait setup a look yet so can’t really speculate atm

How does a 47.1% dps boost for a condi mes sound? Because if achievable stats and skill condi durations will stay the same… that’s what the staff build will get

Assuming the achievable stats will stay the same, the pve staff build will get a 47.1% dps boost.

6/6/0/0/2 and 4x mantra. Slot in Mental Torment in place of Signet Mastery. As you’re running in – swordsman / warden / illu leap + weapon swap to cancel the aftercast / tw / mantra of distraction / auto attack. When you’re nearing the 50% mark, spam mantra of pain/distraction and shatter. This should get her past 50% pretty reliably.

For this specific encounter I’d even go and use the seaweed salad for extra 10% dmg since phantasms are useless here anyways. This encounter, when solo, you really do have to push mesmer to the limit to kill her. Even on my necro I had easier time doing the 50%.

Tried it with Belka just now. Seems the projectile becomes unreflectable right away, and is reflected back to the player who shot the projectile and not me – aka, FB didn’t kick in and didn’t “steal” the projectile (if it did, the fireball would have returned to me and not the staff ele I was with).

Basically, never use reflects on a reflecting NPC in PvE. Players shoot, npc reflects, your reflects are ignored, and player projectiles hurt him and his party. NPC shoots, your reflects kick in and reflect it but then NPC reflects it back and you still get hit. Basically it’s a lose/lose situation

Fay.2357:

Monsters can reflect anything they want. It doesn’t matter how many times it’s been reflected, they can still reflect it again.

Hmm, I remember long time ago specifically using Feedback at Belka just because some staff ele kept killing the party by auto-attacking while she had the bubble on, meaning ele’s fireball > reflected by belka > reflected by my fb (becomes unreflectable) > doesn’t get reflected back keeping party safe.

Same story with hotw p1 end boss when he does the whirling axes attack.

Who knows, maybe I’m just miss-remembering. Will retest once I get back home.

Correct. In fact, reflecting someone who is also reflecting might actually be deadly both for you and your party.

Belka is Arah is the best example. All her attacks are projectiles, including the knockback and that 1-shot orb which she fires are those who are at range. Using reflects against her is a terrible idea because she often summons a reflective bubble around herself. Dropping feedback/traited warden on her you simply guarantee that the knockback arrow will hit someone, after which she 9/10 times will fire the 1 shot orb. Orb is reflected and becomes your projectile, then Belka reflects now “your” orb right back at you. That 1 shot orb is an AoE and since you are stacking in melee with the rest of your party like a good pug, bam – your whole party is dead on the floor, all because of you used Feedback or summoned traited Wardens.

Moral of the story, if an enemy uses projectiles and also has reflecting capabilities of its own, do NOT use feedback and do NOT trait your wardens.

Twice. A reflected projectile can be reflected but that’s it, it can’t be re-reflected after that.

bhagwad.4281:

Phantasms most certainly benefit from +x% damage boosters both with traits as well as equipment.

Only 2 traits apply, Empowered Illusions and Phantasmal Strength – others do not. And no, +x% damage modifiers on equipment do NOT apply to phantasms. Verify your facts before posting.

As always, if you still think otherwise please provide some evidence to backup your claim.

My code compiles at runtime…

To successfully melee Husk you need to stop him from summoning the vines on the platform which is the biggest threat for the party. Using the methods mentioned above to lock down the boss should do the trick. Husk has 2.6 mil HP so at 40k dps you’re looking at a 65 sec lockdown duration or 52 sec @ 50k dps.

Holy Trinity is back, no clerics gear too:
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5h5CWL9BR4

Nothing major has changed in past 9 months, except maybe the sigil nerf but that’s not too important. Overall everything is still valid.

Those calculations don’t account for condition damage.

Better ask in the Dungeons subforum, mostly because the reflects are not exclusive to just mesmers.

Trash, not thrash.

Thrash: beat (a person or animal) repeatedly and violently with a stick or whip.

Why does stargazer has to be such a troll…
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbsFwKOPIHw

Yes. Been playing since the first beta:
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDL_8pMtUeA (Aug 2012)

And main-ing mesmer since start of 2013, playing nearly daily:
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EpR2sN_9j_w

So yes, I’d like to think I do have quite good amount of experience behind my back.

But anyways, this is becoming a big kitten contest with no actual discussion. Don’t know why I even bother after all these years of the same…

Morfedel.4165:

I just love it when someone comes along to say a build is crap when the other person is having success with it n like they know everything. Makes me lol :-)

“Success” is only relative to your experience. You may think you’re successful where in fact quite below average. This is where those with more experience come in and give you a much more realistic perspective of your “success”.

I used to ran shatters in dungeons, extensively, and know exactly what it’s capable of:
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTiXuEfk1qs
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=92-8kCxprcc

Once I got past my shatter-fetish I experimented with phantasm builds and came to a definitive conclusion that not only my DPS became much higher but I also actually was more useful too. Stability, interrupts, condi clears, boon strips, mob control, all were simply better with a proper phantasm build. No matter how many times I go back to shatter, it simply does not match phantasm builds.

If you still have doubts, feel free to check these out:
- CoE
- Mes
- my sig

I love watching when something goes wrong and all the zerkers die. I usually have to break combat, step back and wait for the rest to come back.

Been there, done that. Plenty of time, CoE, Arah, you name it. All with a proper meta build. There is a reason why there are “meta” builds, and that’s because they have proven themselves to be VERY effective, both in utility AND top dps.

Morfedel.4165:

Honestly considering how powerful his aoes are it shocks me, and has made me wonder if there was a bug or something that was letting them survive.

Phantasms are immune to some of his AoE attacks.

Morfedel.4165:

My weapon sets in COE tends to be sword/sword + staff, and I have among other traits Blade Training, Chaotic Dampening, deceptive evasion, and Illusionary Celerity, giving me a 40% recharge bonus on my illusions

That’s just terrible. Please don’t run Staff nor Chaotic Dampening in CoE, our dps is already at all time low and you’re making it even lower with shatters, and then you’re further gimping it by wasting 4 points into a useless line and a useless trait. Also, your goal is to maintain 3 phantasms so dump Deceptive Evasion, it will only prevent you from achieving that goal every time you dodge, and in CoE you will dodge a lot.

It saddens me seeing people run complete crap and think it’s actually good.

Sebrent.3625:

Sustained Damage … if your phantasms aren’t being “whoops’d” to death, your sustain can be close to what the top-tier classes can do.

A buffed staff ele will do 14k to 16k dps. A thief will do even more. A fully buffed mesmer, in ideal encounter where all phantasms survive the whole fight, will do no more than 11.6k and probably less due to ramp-up time. If you lose your phantasms, you’re back to 5.5k dps… even with all offensive buffs still on you.

That’s pretty far from ‘top-tier’ no matter how you look at it…

Pugging arah, lfg is “no lupi 1 shots. p3 exp zerks only”. Just before lupi I say to guard “do not use WoR on the wall” to make sure he gets it. Well, the guard still drops the WoR on the wall, funny enough failing to 1 shot but do getting him to around 10%. When asked why, all I got was “you must be out of your mind if you plan doing him legit”…

Couldn’t even kick the offender too because apparently everyone in the party were expecting the 1 shot too… :/

He pushed an update last night.

GS is fine in open world, in fact I’d argue it’s better than sword and this is because open world is so dead easy and mobs are so weak that it’s simply faster to kill it with GS at range than run in to melee and kill it with a sword. 6/6/0/0/2 with all 4 mantras charged – one GS2 and the mob is dead, and if not dead then then it surely will with following GS3+F1. For veterans and champs, of course, I do swap to sw/sw or sw/p.

Dungeons are a whole different story, GS burst is nowhere near enough to kill the boss which is why sw/x is the king there and GS is cancer due to its pathetically low DPS output.

Staff, as you mention running it, is a whole different story. The only use for it in open world pve is if you are running shatter or want to go with condi build. Otherwise it has no place in either game modes.

Dungeon completion is achieved when you get the end reward. Or, at least that’s what I consider as ‘completing the dungeon’.

redcomyn.4651:

I play for fun, not to be frustrated by constant dirt naps trying to meet the expectations of others, people that I don’t even know.

That’s the mindset of someone who is ok with being bad and is refusing to change that. Of course you will be met with harsh remarks, what else did you expect…

I’m of opinion that unrestricted simply means fastest time from entering the dungeon to leaving it with no restrictions. If I can achieve that by skipping to the last boss and killing him in 2 sec, then let it be – that’s the whole point of “unrestricted”.

yhvh.8703:

I’m looking for a PVE build that makes the Mesmer as tanky and durable as possible.

Being super tanky also implies being super useless. Don’t do it.

fracture.9754:

The important thing right now is why can I not solo him with my minionmancer anymore?

You unable to solo a 5-man boss yet 5-man party kills him with no problem? I call that proper balance. Get over it.

Sebrent.3625:

Is that Mesmer DPS calculating the Mesmer with 3 phantasms up?
I don’t see anything that shows what happens when:

• The dungeon mechanics commonly “whoops” illusions to death
• Cleaving/AOE DPS is desired

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Yt0WNbgZkbn1W0Y89v7IatIujauTTQ3XbU1iTqRd7qc/

Import it into your google drive and have fun.

See the “Chart (——)” tabs for the graphs of the dmg/dps over time, including the ramp-up time. If you want to simulate phantasms dying, open a W/S/H/S (or whatever startup rotation you’re pushing to the graphs) and cut/trim the attack cycles from respective column (ie Phantasm -1 Warden column, delete all cells with time bigger than 10 sec, to simulate warden dying at 10s mark) and that will remove dmg source from that phantasms from that point on and onward (bleeds will still continue ticking, as expected).

Just be warned, every change to variables (stats, build, traits, etc) might take up to few minutes to calculate. The spreadsheet is very thorough.

Daniel Handler.4816:

Actually when we put fury on phantasms they benefit from it twice. So when we have fury and our phantasms have trained fury they get a 40% increase.

The trait applies a pulsating Fury boon on your phantasms. Someone else applying more fury on them will simply increase the duration of said fury, not it’s intensity.

If you still want to claim otherwise, please provide something to support it.

At the end of all my stealth skills, I get revealed debuff. This means no more chaining of stealth skills for longer stealth stacks.

Debuti.6017:

F5 is also useless in PVE: true fact
PVE mesmers got nothing with new specialization: true fact

I hope that was just sarcasm…

I’ll vote Sword #2 and #4 for mes. Most reliable offensive defensive skills we have. Block/Evade attacks and do 12k dmg, twice every ~10s, yes please. Sword 2/4 is pretty much the reason I can survive Subject Alpha and Lupi indefinitely without needing Energy sigils. In fact, I don’t even own any energy sigils on my mes…

If you need to analyze DPS, these two mes dps calculators will do exactly that:

- Light calc
- Heavy calc

The light version calculates terminal dps and avg reflects only, which is good for fast calcs and your typical testings. This is what I use if I need a quick answer such as how much gear/food X is better than gear Y or how much better build X vs build Y.

The heavy version is like light version but also accounts for and calculates phantasm summon rotation and resulting bleed ticks over time, which is good for simulating actual in-game gameplay. This version will calculate how many seconds it’ll take to reach X amount of dmg depending on what rotation/phantasm combination you use. The heavy version will also give you graphs for various startup rotations (duelist/swordsman/heal/swordsman, warden/heal/warden/swordsman, etc) of dealt dmg over time and expected avg dps over time. Due to how complicated the spreadsheet is, one change per input variable (gear stat, trait, etc) may take up to few minutes to update the results. Use this only if you have plenty of patience.

To use these spreadsheets, import/copy them into your own google drive because mine are set to Read Only for public. Both spreadsheets are up to date and are extremely accurate because the data was gathered directly from gw2’s memory, no stopwatches or video capturing mess. Heck, my account got banned because the tools I used to gather data for these spreadsheet are considered illegal since they “modify game files” according to anet but thats a whole different topic of its own, so yeah…

Ryn.6459:

Is that BD? How good is it?

Yep. Just started so can’t judge just yet. The first impression is that it’s definitely not finished yet, feels quite unpolished.

Though one thing I do can judge, is the screenshots it produces are simply beautiful

• http://i.imgur.com/e2ipiEu.jpg
• http://i.imgur.com/IklpQ6z.jpg
• http://i.imgur.com/PJDeWrK.jpg
• http://i.imgur.com/YtlUguN.jpg

With my main accnt gone, my mes has found another job. She says hi!

http://i.imgur.com/GEKYdTL.png

Sebrent.3625:

@frifoxy:
Does that mean we’re going to see Guardian dps nerfed? :-p

I can only hope. Not a big fan of seeing guards doing more reliable reflects than me while still being on top of their DPS game.

In ANet’s eyes, a class with excellent array of amazing utility (debatable) surpassing other classes dps even if only under ideal conditions, is a big no no…