Guild Wars 2

I only play thief in pvp because nothing else is fun for me. It could be worse though. I could be a warrior main.

So, is this a build suggestion out just some ramblings?

This is refreshing to see after all the thieves switching to DH. Welcome

I run staff with soldier armor and zerker weapons and trinkets. I use withdraw if I’m running bound dodge and physical heal if I’m running dash. It’s plenty of healing for me.

Aguri.2896:

@kaikalii, I am part of a guild that is planning on doing raids but since we’re also pretty casual I need to be able to pug it to get a feel of the encounter. I also have no desire to play a class that holds back my team in such a hardcore setting, which thief does.

Like I said, I would argue that it does not hold your team back. Group heals through skelk venom, fast bar breaks through basi venom, quick +1ing the green circle via shadowstep, and all the while doing great dps with the staff allow the thief to contribute just as much as any other class.

I mentioned the necessity of playing the raid with an organized group because if you are pugging as a thief and losing, it’s likely not because you are playing thief. As long as you know how to play your role, you are not holding anyone back.

My guild and I beat the first boss. I was running full zerk staff venom share thief. It is perfectly viable and useful. Skelk Venom heals your party for a ton, and basi let’s you break bars really fast. Shadowstep let’s you quickly +1 the green circle if the need arises. My team was actually happy to have me.

I would not recommend pugging the raid. No matter what class or build you are playing, it is FAR easier if you have a group to consistently practice with. Join a guild that does the raid, because they’ll probably understand that skill and understanding is just as if not more important than which class you are playing.

Sometimes, when I enter an area, dash’s animation will not work. The regular dodge animation plays, and I go the regular dodge distance. I can tell dodge is still working because I still get the swiftness and damage reduction. The only way to fix it is to switch to one of the other dodges and then switch back.

I know this is kind of a minor bug, but is anyone else experiencing it?

I find daredevil incredibly useful. I have been able to beat most builds with it, the hardest matchup being scrapper. If you don’t think that the staff is a good burst weapon, just try user #2 → steal and watch their hp go from 100% to 30%. Its about as mutch damage as backstab, only you don’t need to be in stealth or behind them.

Escapist’s Absolution + Dash combined with 5 dodges (3+heal) is the best condi removal thief has probably ever had, and I find Dash gives greater survivability than D/P stealth.

IMO, arenanet did a great job with daredevil. The only people don’t realize this is because is doesn’t match their preconceived notions.

I had that problem, so I replaced most of my armor with soldiers. I still have zerker trinkets and weapons. Sure, you do less damage, but you can’t do any damage when you’re dead.

When I first saw the images of nevermore, I thought it may be the one I wanted to work toward for my Dardevil, but after seeing the Guild Chat stream, it doesn’t look quite as good as I think Bitfrost might. Which do you think would better suit DD?

I usually solo roam, sticking southern halves of the two enemy borderlands. Just run back and forth between the three camps, capping them when you can, and you’re bound to run into someone, as long as it’s not totally dead.

Because Rev cant use dash

I play pretty much exclusively power thief roaming in wvw. I find that I can beat the majority of builds if I play well.

Builds to just run from:
-PU conditions mesmer
-P/D conditions thief
-terrormancer
-condi warrior

I find pretty much everything else to be a skill matchup. I start every fight with warriors and guardians with Shortbow to see what they are using and get some damage on them before I got to burst. Rangers die easily if you wait for rapid Fire and then use dagger storm. For Shatter mesmers, I just dodge or tp away when I see the clones running at me. For DD ele, engis and necros, it’s just a matter of avoiding the damage and widdling them down.

BTW all that stuff is made 1000x easier if you play daredevil.

While this would be really nice, I played a lot of staff DD during BWE3, and I actually used Dust Strike far more than the #3 skill. When you have dash, who needs a tiny rollback that clenses immob? I realize it’s helpful when using bound or the spin dodge, but I still wouldn’t imagine myself using for anything other than immob cleanse when I just have so many dodges.

Skeletor.9360:

The fact is that thieves need stealth to stay alive.

I respectfuly disagree. DD helped me survive better that stealth.

I just tried it in WvW, and wow, it’s actually really strong. I think soldier thief might be a thing now.

I know that this isn’t ideal, but you can swap DD for a different spec, then but DD back on and simply not choose a grandmaster trait. Then, you have the extra dodge bar with a regular dodge.

However, I think you would be severely handicapping yourself. I you don’t want to be revealed, I would just go with Dash. As for your concern with it in SR, if you stand at the very edge of the circle and dash across it, you should stay inside. It can be slightly annoying, but I think having dash is absolutely worth it.

I find staff DD extremely effective for WvW roaming. The damage from #2, and if you can land it, #5, is extremely high. Dash combined with the sheer number of evades DD gets offers arguably better survivability than stealth. I don’t know what I’m going to do when I have to stop using staff DD in the weeks between BWE3 and HoT release.

I have nothing but good things to say about staff and the DD in general.

I don’t usually play guardian, but lately I’ve been playing a few games as zerker trapper DH, and it’s pretty ridiculous. On maps like Khylo and Fofire, people have a way to counter it, because they can stand back from the point, but on maps like Niflhel, Skyhammer, Temple, and especially Stronghold, where the points are closed in by more walls, the build’s ability to 1-shot anyone without an invlun stunbreak is pretty ridiculous. It is especially potent on stronghold, where people have to go through this little opening to get to the objective, an opening that is thin enough for your traps to cover the entire thing.

If it is not actually strong enough to be a new meta build, then it is at least gimmicky enough to be the new thing that really annoys PvPers.

It feels like you’re floating on air

Whipped this up. Tell me what you think of my placements. Are they more or less accurate? Am I way off base?

Edit: I have taken some of the responses into consideration and moved things accordingly. However, keep in mind that I am judging damage as it pertains to fighting one or two enemies, when two foes will seldom be close enough to hit with a single AoE attack.

Bleak.5796:

kaikalii.4198:

I’m inclined to agree with you. Everyone plays d/p, so they think that a weapon without easy access to stealth is useless. The sheer mobility of the staff makes it much easier to avoid damage as long as you play well.
I think that the staff is in a decent place. The only thing is the #4, which will probably be used just as much as dagger #4 and pistol #2, i.e. almost never. Why spend time and initiative using it when there are so many better options?

Would you pick Staff over S/D, though? Weakening Charge and Vault lock you into animations without Evade Frames nor the ability to interrupt them by dodging.
Since we didn’t get a new class mechanic that synergizes well with our new weapon, we have to compare Staff to S/D – and we all now that S/D with proper traits is sick.

Edit: A big plus for Staff would be the combination of Staff Master and Escapist’s Absolution. The latter is just too good to not be taken, but Staff Master is amazing, too. imo

You raise a good point about staff #2. For it to feel good, short of having evade frames itself, which I don’t think is likely or necessary, but unlike heartseeker, I thinker it should be cancellable, perhaps similar to the way the pistol whip works, where simply tapping a movement key again cancels the skill.

As for how staff compares to s/d, I see staff as more of a burst weapon than s/d. If you do manage to land a stealth attack and knock down your foe for 2 seconds and then land a vault, or better yet, a fist flurry > palm strike, they should be almost dead by then.

alchemyst.2165:

I don’t really see not having a gap closer as a problem, considering you have other weapons and skills for that.

I also don’t think staff should have a smoke field due to it being a non-stealth weapon/playstyle.

I’m inclined to agree with you. Everyone plays d/p, so they think that a weapon without easy access to stealth is useless. The sheer mobility of the staff makes it much easier to avoid damage as long as you play well.
I think that the staff is in a decent place. The only thing is the #4, which will probably be used just as much as dagger #4 and pistol #2, i.e. almost never. Why spend time and initiative using it when there are so many better options?

D/P is also the reason for all of the complaining about reveal. Any sword main doesn’t care about all the reveal that other classes are getting, because it doesn’t effect them at all.

Wow, it’s really a shame that this game doesn’t have any way to remove conditions.

Everything was so spot on!
Well, except for that one line in the beginning.
Wait…never mind.

I play thief because of the fast-paced twitch gameplay, as well as the ability to base everything you do around a single weapon set.

Also, I believe a lot of the complaints about thief being underpowered are exaggerated or unfounded, as I have not experienced such uselessness in game. I do better on Thief than on any other class.

Kocoff.7582:

To you, I say, well done sir. I hope there will be more vids of S/P gameplay with a Daredevil build.

During BWE3 and after HoT release, I will probably swap acro for DD, since it offers stealth to S/P

Video

A short montage of me roaming with Sword/Pistol. Please forgive the mistakes and unnecessary dodges.

Build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQNAsaVl0MhKnY3Tw0JQ/EHwElPNOj2oXYJRiqTgAY3A-TFCFABHqGAAPBgCV95KlgIp8TgTBQN7Pkm+ASBonyI-w

As a full zerker thief, I find it very easy to take out other full zerker players. Against bulkier foes, imo Thief has the tools to do continuous damage and stay alive long enough to kill just about anyone. The only thing you have to do is play well and dodge important things.

Selver.1307:

Well we can get longbow as a new elite.
1- shadow shot #2 – (copy inf arrow description)
2- infiltrators pretend arrow – use a plastic arrow to(copy inf arrow description)
3- shadow’s step -(copy inf arrow description)
4- stepping shadows -(copy inf arrow description)
5- quick retreat – use an arrow to cause 100% hp damage to yourself, granting loot bags to everyone in a 3600 unit radius.

New utilities – " shouts "

“I can’t do anything!” – yell about being useless and instantly take the farthest waypoint from your target at no cost.

“Lost cause” – shout about balance, shadowstepping you and all thieves on the map to lions arch if in pve, to spawn in spvp, and to Garrison in wvw.

Elite: “no quarter” – that trait in CS? Yeah. Same thing. Just gives it to your opponents.

Lol Rito hire this man

Shortbow /15char

I know a lot of people think that the acro line is garbage now, but I’ve been using it in its new state for a while, and I really like it.

It does suck that feline grace is gone, but we do have some traits that I think make up for it, namely Hard to Catch and Don’t stop.

Hard to Catch is very unique. Not only is it a stunbreak, but it’s also instant. You will still be interrupted, but you will not actually be stunned for any noticeable amount of time. Don’t Stop essentially makes you immune to immobilize. These two traits have saved my life so many times. No, you can’t dodge quite as much as you used to be able to, but those CCs that you would have dodged are nullified automatically. I honestly do not think that the line is any worse than it was before.

I think that they said that you can unlock all standard specs and skills with just the HPs that you get from leveling to 80, plus 60 more. Each elite spec would just be a few more.

kornfanxxx.9143:

Hey guys, I run an S/p thief main and I outplayed a necro and ele in wvw tonight. Both of them messaged me claiming i was macro’ing my pistol whip to my sword 2. i mean, i just kinda press the buttons. they claimed i was reported ect ect.. but is that an actual thing? and am i going to get banned for people claiming i macro’d some skills together?

Another s/p main! I didn’t know there were any… I was roaming with the same set tonight, and I similarly got told I was hacking and that I had been reported. Must be the free to play people who don’t understand or something.

Honestly, every other change could be ignored, and I would be happy if they just reverted feline grace. Acro4life

Cynz.9437:

kaikalii.4198:

I don’t see stealth as a profession mechanic in the same way something like steal is. It is a playstyle choice for survivability, the other major choice being evades. Many other professions have these kinds of choices. For example, mesmer has the choice to spec for shatter damage or phantasm damage, both of which have unique counterplay. With this analogy, getting revealed as a thief is similar to having your phantasms cleaved down as a mesmer. Sure, it hinders you, but it’s part of the game, and you work around it.

please name me a class that has attack that requires stealth….

please name me a class which whole defensive trait line is about stealth

I think of stealth as being like fear. Many professions have access to fear, but only the necromancer has traits that augment fear and relies on it as much as a mechanic. Like stealth with reveal, fear can be almost totally disabled via stability, which has a limited duration during which other things can be done, just like reveal.

I don’t see stealth as a profession mechanic in the same way something like steal is. It is a playstyle choice for survivability, the other major choice being evades. Many other professions have these kinds of choices. For example, mesmer has the choice to spec for shatter damage or phantasm damage, both of which have unique counterplay. With this analogy, getting revealed as a thief is similar to having your phantasms cleaved down as a mesmer. Sure, it hinders you, but it’s part of the game, and you work around it.

If they were leaps, then they would have an animation, which would prevent them being used whIle casting other skills, like cloak and dagger or pistol whip. If I wanted to use DD with those weapons, I would be unable to do those combos.

I think that what of lot of people in this thread are not considering is that most Thieves are bad, so they are pretty easy to kill. What you should be asking you self is not “How hard is it to kill thieves as a different profession?” But "how hard is it to kill other professions as a thief main. Yes, thief is probably harder than most others, but it’s not as bad as most make it out to be

Thieves have:
-very good dps
-the longest projectile reflect in the game (dagger storm)
-access to easy group stealth
-spammable blast finisher for crazy might stacking
-large amounts of non-weapon blinking, for carrying bundles faster (as some PvE content requires)

I’m not to worried about the Thief’s place in raids

I was about to make a post like this, but then I saw this one. I totally agree. staff #5 + bound is where a lot of your damage comes from, and when you use them together, it really gives you that evasive play style feeling that I think most people expected form the daredevil.

Also, to the people saying that skill #4 is useless, it’s no more useless than pistol #2 or dagger #4. The main skill of the staff is #5 imo. Everything else #2-4 is mostly utility.

Serious Thought.5394:

@Azmodey- can you explain to me why pack runes are meta? In my honest and humble opinion, they are one of the most garbage tier out there UNLESS you are playing a support-esque thief play style. Why are pack runes meta? Rage runes give fury and damage, eagle gives precision/ferocity/damage…. Also why are people picking Bountiful Theft over Trickster? It’s such a life saver… Halp I’m confused, and I’m not a new thief anymore.

Pack runes give you power, precision, swiftness, might, and fury, all things that are great on thief. I’m not sure why you feel they would only be good for a support thief, as all the stats they give facilitate greater damage.

As why people take bountiful theft over trickster, BT lets you steal boons on steal which is huge, on top of guaranteed vigor. Trickster may be good, but it only applies to tricks, a utility that most Thieves don’t take very often apart from withdraw. BT usually Jay has much more potential.

Are there any good thief youtubers that still upload videos? It would be cool if there were some WP of thieves that frequently made good content.

It seem that as a community, at least on the forums, Thieves are pretty much resigned to the idea that only dagger main hand is viable for WvW roaming. However, seeing as both D/P and D/D are highly reliant on stealth, the recent additions of more reveal skills can be crippling.

I’d like to get back into playing S/D again for this reason – though I wasn’t really any good at it in the first place. Does anyone have any tips for S/D roaming in the modern meta?

1. I play a bit of s/p in pvp, and I can confidently say that pistol whip does not need a buff. Yes, landing it is dependant on those skills you mentioned, but it though be, because it interrupts and does huge damage.

2. Totally agree.

3. Agree, all the venom except for BV should be instant cast.

4. I think that TG is fine, if a bit gimmicky. It would be really nice if ambush spawned the thief on the trap rather than wherever the thief who cast it is. It’s current functionality is kinda silly.

5. Ambush is just a generally clunky skill to use seeing at it requires line of sight for the return.

6. Dagger storm is fine I think. It’s not meant to do a ton of damage.

7. Lol underwater.

I am really liking Sword/Sword and Shiro so far. I find the damage from #1 and #3 really good. The individual damage on the #3 hits don’t do a ton of damage themselves, but you hit a lot of times, and you have more chances to proc fire/air, so the burst from that skill alone can actually be really high.

As far as the Shiro skills go, the heal is not meant to be used like any other “oh kitten I’m low” heal. You are supposed to use it when you still have a good amount of health so that you can take more hits when going in.

While the revenant sword does resemble the thief sword, remember that they are no designed to do the exact same thing, while an evade on #3 or #5 would be nice, we don’t need evades on everything. I’ve had a lot of fun playing it so far.

I do agree with you though, about skill #2. I can’t see myself ever using it, because I feel like there is always something better I could be doing. It is like thief pistol #2 or dagger #4. Sure you get a should cc condition, but it probably isn’t worth your time.

RIP Feline Grace. Thanks for saving my kitten so many times.

Lich form is one of the reasons I run dagger storm over basi venom. Loch targets you aND you’re all “lol m8 I think not”.

Of you are in PvP, don’t bother, just move on. In Wvw though…
Whenever I fight a guardian roaming, I always start out in Shortbow so that I can widdle him down with fire/air sigils and evade his initial burst. When he starts getting low, through down a poison field so his shelter is weakened. Once you have him at about half health this way, and only after he has used his heal, go in for the kill. The classic zerker medi guard will go down pretty fast without cooldowns.