Guild Wars 2

Archage had so much potential. But it wasn’t just the OTT money grab, the ideas, particularly the “you own land” was ruined by shoddy implementation and high monetisation intrusion.

They just got to greedy.

GW2 has it’s niche.
I started playing about two/three months ago, something like that. My first impression was it felt like a single player RGP adventure that had been converted into an MMO. I was also amazed by how fast you got to cap, certainly the fastest cap I have played up until now. Had HoT not come out, I would have left pretty quick. Not enough progression for me.

Some of you refer to it as a game for casuals. I would say that’s it’s niche. For people like me who require more solid progression and more depth, it will never be top of the pops, but good it is.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

OK, first I should say I have no idea of the motivation behind nerfing rewards in this game, I have not been playing long enough to judge.

But… I have been playing games from a certain company since 2010 and regardless of any ancillary reasons, this is pretty standard practise. It’s about widening as far as they can the gap between the ‘value’ of the loot you can get for free, and loot you buy with real money. The larger that gap is, the more ‘value’ the item mall loot is ‘perceived’ as having. More perceived value = more sales.

This is a road that does not end well for the players.

OMG YES!

Hate jumping puzzles ‘cos I’m old and useless.

The absolute nadir for me was trying to get the Diving Mastery achievement only to find one was gated behind one of the nasty jump puzzles in that secret Deidre area.

It’s not the Diving and Jumping mastery achievement!

NO MORE JUMPING CRAP, IT’S 90’S PLATFORM SUCKFEST STUFF.
P.S. Only my opinion of course.

It’s always been a grind. Getting all those non-soloable achievements points took forever.

Generally I like the expansion, personally I don’t mind the grind, but…. besides that anyone who thinks this is a big grind obviously hasn’t played many MMO’s.

The “grind” as an complaint really doesn’t work.
What does work is that so much is not soloable, that decision will come back and bite them, and…
…Not a fan of some been able to scoot to massive mastery numbers, that destroyed the level playing field in the same way the heavy nerf of achievement point rewards back a bit did. Never understand why companies undermine the competitive integrity of their own game like that. shrug.

But otherwise, generally great expansion.

Grind is the whole point, the heart of MMO’s. Never understood why people moan about that.

However, seeing that this is the “fastest to cap” MMO I have ever played (by a long way), I can see why it comes as a shock.

I guess the solution is. to. just. not. read. it. ?

AH, I see what the problem is. You think because something requires a party, it’s harder, lol.

As I said, the EJW completely disproves that theory. Content is as hard as Anet makes it, regardless of the play style it requires.

Whether I understand the difference between raids and dungeons is irreverent. This is about play styles and why one play style should hog all the very top armour. All classes, all races, all tiers and all colours. They want it all.

Don’t we have a word for that?.

maddoctor.2738:

keth.1836:

The better question is why are you so determined to keep the best rewards to the play style you like? eh?

A solo raid isn’t a raid… and it didn’t answer the question of alternative difficulty. You are saying you don’t want the alternative method to be easier yet you are asking for it to be soloable. How is that not easier?

keth.1836:

If you want to see WOW’s figures, then google it. Google is your friend. Or further up in this thread, someone gave more details.

I think you are mistaking dungeons with raids, they are different things.

If you want to see WOW’s figures, then google it. Google is your friend. Or further up in this thread, someone gave more details.

I think more players tried it once, sure. It’s harder than any gw2 dungeon with stupidly less rewards, so less players probably repeat it regularly.
But, no group is required, which makes it available to everyone and not just the professionals who always have ten friends online.

maddoctor.2738:

keth.1836:

There is a difference between excluding the playerbase and something being ‘hard’.
If the item is restricted to dungeons, you exclude 99% of the player base (according to WOW figures).

I’d like to see those WOW figures that say that only 1% of the population is doing dungeons. Or even better how you come to the conclusion that only 1% of the population is doing dungeons in GW2.

If you also add it to PvE Evolved Jungle Wurm (something far, far hard than any GW2 dungeon since it fails 90% of the time), you bring that exclusion amount to about 50% (guess).
Isn’t that better?

Are you seriously saying that more players are doing the Evolved Jungle Wurn than those running dungeons? :S

Firstly, I am not a game designer. That is a job for Anet.

But you don’t have to look far. Other games have beaten this problem and avoided the elitism. I personally prefer all dungeons/raid to have a solo mode. No easier than a group version. but scaled for one person, but just something for the casuals who don’t have ten friends online all the time to form a group etc.

There are also things you could do with the world bosses idea.

The possibilities are endless really. I don’t see the problem.

The better question is why are you so determined to keep the best rewards to the play style you like? eh?

maddoctor.2738:

keth.1836:

Alternative, not easier.

Why do you need an alternative if it’s going to be the same difficulty? If you can’t earn a reward because it’s too hard for you, then you are asking for a method that is easier so you can do it.

I’d also like a couple of examples of those alternative methods. You are saying “not easier”, so let’s say we are talking about Legendary Armor Precursors that drop only in the Raid. How would you make them available in a alternative way that is also the same difficulty as the Raid? I’m curious to see what you consider alternative but same difficulty to the raid.

There is a difference between excluding the playerbase and something being ‘hard’.

If the item is restricted to dungeons, you exclude 99% of the player base (according to WOW figures).
If you also add it to PvE Evolved Jungle Wurm (something far, far hard than any GW2 dungeon since it fails 90% of the time), you bring that exclusion amount to about 50% (guess).

Isn’t that better?

maddoctor.2738:

keth.1836:

Secondly, who said anything about other methods of sourcing the gear should be easy?
Don’t put words into peoples mouths.

I see this argument a lot and it doesn’t make any sense at all. First, people say that there should be alternatives for those who don’t like the “main” way of getting the rewards, sure let’s say we agree on that. And then they say alternative methods shouldn’t be easy, but that contradicts the first point. You can’t have both, you either exclude a certain percentage of the playerbase or you make it really easy, there is no other way.

So choose which is it, alternative methods are easy or you exclude people? You can choose to have both to a certain degree, but then comes the next 2 questions:

A) Where do you put the barrier?
B) How do you justify excluding those who can’t reach that barrier?

Your missing the point.

I said nothing about ‘easy’, so please don’t put words into my mouth.

I said I’m quite happy for those kids to go to collage and get their degree, but that I am a working mum and wanted a way to get my degree online at home as well.

Alternative, not easier.

Understand now?

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Oxidia.8103:

When worn, it will mean player went trough hell and back to have it. Not everyone will have it and it’s fine. Funny how people riot when they have to earn something with their skills rather then their wallets and feel entitled to get everything with minimal effort.

Just to clarify the position of the opposition. It’s not only some feel Entitled to the best gear with minimal efforts. Some don’t want to do the content, yet feel Entitled to the rewards.

A real life example of this would be getting a college degree. The requirements are taking X amount of classes that take an average of 4 years to complete in order to get your degree. The classes aren’t easy, and sometimes requires getting together for group projects. One student refuses to take classes, and argues that the school should have an alternative way to get the degree because they’re paying the tuition. That’s similar to what’s going on here. Raids are the classes needed, Legendary armor is the degree, and Anet is the college.

Basically, if you don’t want to take the classes, you don’t deserve the degree.

Lol. Firstly, you really, really think people such as that Guard won’t appear in raids? Gimme a break.

Secondly, who said anything about other methods of sourcing the gear should be easy?
Don’t put words into peoples mouths.

MyriadStars.5679:

Oxidia.8103:

Today i had the pleasure of doing fractal lvl 50 with a guard that provided nothing for our team but sadness and frustration for a whole run.

Raiding will eliminate that kind of players and that’s just fine. That will simply exclude everyone and their mom from having legendary items simply because they were there leeching from the group spamming 1 while rooted on one spot.

You got him because you were pugging. It had nothing to do with fractals or raiding. Try pugging for raid instances and you will see the same thing happen.

Such a shame when games companies allow this elitism to rear it’s ugly head. It’s not like there is no precedent for how destructive to a game this is. There’s tons, lol.

Already legendary equipment is locked behind raids completely out of reach of the casuals, that 99% of the population (on WOW figures) who actually pay for this ****.

Not a design or decision that is going to add to my likelihood of sticking with the game.

I have no problem with hard or lengthy objectives. You think a legendary here takes a while? My absolute fav MMORPG takes about three years to get to cap. If the game is good enough, it’s okay for things to take a long time.

My only beef about precursors is the sheer randomness. Firstly I have to assume the dropping of a precursor is actually down to RNG. Everyone assumes it is because historically that’s the way it was in older games, but these companies today never actually confirm that (talking generally). So who knows?
Precursors are so valuable it’s just not fair for someone to not get one in three years of playing, and another guy to get it in his first SW chest farm (as someone reliable mentioned today in guild).

I think that is probably quite demotivating for a lot of players and should ideally be addressed somehow.

====
Lumme! Careful, you’ll have the fanboy brigade down on you like a rash for that one.

Firebaall.5127:

…..want to Pay to Win….buy….

I will. It’s good your willing to learn.

Random.4691:

I’m glad you have all the inside info that we don’t so you could come up with those number’s. Please do keep us informed from this point forward so we can all be in the loop.

I just want to add my 1 millionth and seventy two thousand agreement with the OP.

Far too much forcing people to the play style Anet wants rather than giving us choices. HoT sounds like it’s 80% party orientated for the 20% of the population who love that dungeon stuff. That stinks.

Every time something is made only accessible in a fractal, or dungeon, or with party play, you are screwing 80% of the population. And you wonder why numbers go down? Just because the 20% dungeon lovers scream the loudest doesn’t make it the best policy.

Lone adventurers RULE!.

In response to the good posts above…

I guess it does happen in the high street where they have a product for only a limited amount of time, more so in the ‘bargain shops’. But somehow I have never seen the latest model Mercedes bounce in and out of the showroom. Can’t say it’s a tactic that the high street has embraced completely.

Must admit I like this event. True, you have to learn about it to get the best out of it.

You have to learn it’s good to lose this one. That then spawns, is it 3?, back to back very easy events the total rewards of which dwarf those you get if you actually win the first one.

It’s different. That’s good.

It’s one of my ‘must-do’ hubs when levelling.

Bored now. Have fun!.

Well, except that a lot of the boosts etc. are simply not available as they are account bound when they leave the gem store and when they drop.

I know that blows your argument out of the water, but hey, keep digging that hole.

SelenaDread.2814:

keth.1836:

I can pay money and buy things in the gem store you cannot buy from merchants.

Some of those things make me ‘win’ over you.
I can win crafting (boosts), dungeons (boosts, revive et all), levelling (boosts) and lets not even get on to legendaries.

Virtually all F2P can claim “free players can get it eventually”. If we took that route, no game would be pay to win. That’s why although I admire your invention, ‘pay to skip’ makes no sense.

But, I do agree on one thing, it’s a boring argument. You wanna think it’s not pay to win, fine by me shrug.

There are games that do fall into the Pay to Win category where people do not have access to an item since it is cash only and better than any in-game item.

I seriously doubt I coined the phase Play to Skip.

Again your argument is flawed as I do not have to spend a dime to purchase items from the gem store since I can convert in-game gold to gem

I do agree that this is a pointless argument as you as refuse/unable to understand the differences between free to play models. You seem to be strangely entrenched in the idea that you can pay to win by purchasing an item(that everyone has access to) from another player. I was hoping the point bullets were easier to understand. shrug

Fanboys make me laugh.

Like I said, with that definition there is literally no f2p in the world as virtually all of them boast ‘you can get that shiney eventually’……….. (five years later).

facepalm

imsoenthused.1634:

SelenaDread.2814:

This is not a hard concept to understand

Don’t feel bad. Strange people have been trying to redefine and devalue the term to mean what they want it to mean for years now. They just can’t grasp the basic idea that pay2win by definition must involve items and advantages superior to anything else in the game that can only be obtained with real world money. By definition, the actual definition of the term and not their made up one, pay2win actually can’t exist in any game where cash shop currency is obtainable without actually spending cash.

It doesn’t matter though, these people just can’t grasp the basic idea. Some guy in another thread actually tried arguing that obtaining cosmetics through the cash shop made this game pay2win… I just don’t even. Seriously, I feel like anyone who misuses the term should be strapped down in a chair and forced to play Combat Arms for about three months, completely free. After three months, when the convulsions, foaming at the mouth, and induced tourette’s finally settle down they’d have a real understanding of what the term actually means, and how using it incorrectly devalues the weight of atrocity that it embodies.

Thanks, for info, was just about to drop 500 gems on that.

What is bad is that the wiki picture shows the saws out and to the front. Sure it’s just an update thing, but a tad misleading.

I never understand this rotational idea in item malls.

I was tempted by that Viper skirt as well. I so nearly brought it. I was that close (holds two fingers up very close together). I am still ‘that close’, and any day I could get the ‘mood’ to buy it. Yet Anet have made absolutely sure they don’t get my money.

I’m not complaining, I just don’t understand the logic.

I can pay money and buy things in the gem store you cannot buy from merchants.

Some of those things make me ‘win’ over you.
I can win crafting (boosts), dungeons (boosts, revive et all), levelling (boosts) and lets not even get on to legendaries.

Virtually all F2P can claim “free players can get it eventually”. If we took that route, no game would be pay to win. That’s why although I admire your invention, ‘pay to skip’ makes no sense.

But, I do agree on one thing, it’s a boring argument. You wanna think it’s not pay to win, fine by me.

SelenaDread.2814:

keth.1836:

Not every Mud has to be the same.

But I do think it’s hilarious in a game which is undisputed pay to win due to being able to buy pretty much anything you need instantly up to and including legendaries with cash are negative about mounts.
Just funny, that boat sailed years ago.

I’m seriously confused by this comment and hoping that it is just plain ignorance on your part.

To my understanding the Pay to Win model is basically to purchase an item/buff/weapon/armour piece that essentially gives an advantage to the user over the player base that does not have access to this item.

What you basically described is a Pay to Skip model, as the player base as a whole have access to this item. The purchase is solely to skip ahead the time and grind required.

Regardless your statement as a whole is severely flawed, as if there is an item that gives you power that can only be purchased by gems. The GW2 player base can still access this item by converting in-game gold to gems.

Raistlin.3210:

Raistlin.3210:
news flash GW2 is 110% pay to win
u can buy gems convert to coins and buy the legendary, how is that not pay to win?

What? Seriously?

You are admitting that gems (real money) need to be converted to in-game gold so that this all powerful “winning” item can be bought. I am hoping you realize that you just stated everyone has equal access to this item, the only difference is the time it is obtained (again Pay to Skip).

News flash 100% Pay to Skip.

I hope you take this into account in future threads posts.

Cyninja.2954:

keth.1836:

Not every Mud has to be the same.

But I do think it’s hilarious in a game which is undisputed pay to win due to being able to buy pretty much anything you need instantly up to and including legendaries with cash are negative about mounts.
Just funny, that boat sailed years ago.

Maybe learn what pay-to-win means first before complaining about it?

I can pay, and beat you. I know what it means, dear.

Not every Mud has to be the same.

But I do think it’s hilarious in a game which is undisputed pay to win due to being able to buy pretty much anything you need instantly up to and including legendaries with cash are negative about mounts.
Just funny, that boat sailed years ago.

It’s not a matter of being “forced”, it’s a matter of whether I would bother given the alternatives.

Competitive market out there now.

Blair.3796:

keth.1836:

DoctorDing.5890:

The F2P is a good addition. The restrictions are perfectly-pitched…..

It’s a personal choice of course, but I dunno ‘bout that. I brought HoT before F2P so I’m kinda neutral, but I wouldn’t waste my time playing this ‘free to play’. Way too many restrictions when you compare them to all the other good free to play games without those restrictions.

It reminds me of Vanguard, a decent enough old style grinder, but the F2P wasn’t really free to play, more like ‘limited to play’.

I disagree, I think the F2P in this game is a great model. So many other games give you caps or severe restrictions; the lvl 20 cap in WoW, for example, or the inaccessible quests and areas in Runescape. GW2 F2P has a lot of inconveniences and QoL restrictions (bag slots, chara slots, base lvl reqs to access content, etc), but you are fully capable of playing the entire game without ever paying Anet a penny.

That’s a great model, imo. Heavily incentivized to purchase, but you are never forced to in order to do anything at all.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

keth.1836:

DoctorDing.5890:

The F2P is a good addition. The restrictions are perfectly-pitched…..

It’s a personal choice of course, but I dunno ‘bout that. I brought HoT before F2P so I’m kinda neutral, but I wouldn’t waste my time playing this ‘free to play’. Way too many restrictions when you compare them to all the other good free to play games without those restrictions.

It reminds me of Vanguard, a decent enough old style grinder, but the F2P wasn’t really free to play, more like ‘limited to play’.

I think ANet should have called it Free to Try instead of Free to Play as it’s much more like a glorified trial version than it is a Free to Play version. If you consider it a trial version then the restrictions are more understandable.

Yup, agree.

DoctorDing.5890:

The F2P is a good addition. The restrictions are perfectly-pitched…..

It’s a personal choice of course, but I dunno ‘bout that. I brought HoT before F2P so I’m kinda neutral, but I wouldn’t waste my time playing this ‘free to play’. Way too many restrictions when you compare them to all the other good free to play games without those restrictions.

It reminds me of Vanguard, a decent enough old style grinder, but the F2P wasn’t really free to play, more like ‘limited to play’.

PopeUrban.2578:

If you’re constantly getting disconnected…

No one said anything about constantly being disconnected. FYI.

Zanther Deathbringer.4762:

I’m pretty sure “the game” isn’t the culprit here.

I smell a ‘pro’, lol.

Because at the moment it’s like a half-backsided thing that was never finished. It reminds me of the bad old days in the early 2000’s.

Been disconnected (by the game) world boss hunting about four times this morning. Each time came back to a completely different and either empty, or the boss had completed maps.

Yesterday went several times thru the palaver of trying to get guild mates on the same map. It’s prehistoric the way it works here.

Why is there no map hopping available? Why can’t you, for example, right click on the guildie in the guild roster and ‘move to map’?
Why does the game not remember what instance you are on? So when you log back in, if that instance still exists and is not full, you go back there? To guard against these disconnects that seem to be becoming more common now the population is rising again?

Like I said, feels like a half finished botch job at the moment.

Shame this change didn’t stick. The original version did go some way to fixing the how poorly the Ranger compared to ALL other classes problem. It looks OP on paper if you optimized boon copying… but in turn that meant the loss of your major heal when you want it. That was a big nerf in effect. Maybe actually even a bigger nerf than the gain in some circumstances.

Pity. Untested change + panic fix = waste of everyone’s time.