Guild Wars 2

The team that is assigned to green should usually have ccs to push them away. This is why running 3 engis with a druid is so good, because they go stack on green and all have knockbacks to push it away. Its just one of those annoying mechanics that will be there in the entire raid, you can’t always micromanage it, so you just need to avoid it sometimes.

Thaddeus.4891:

SkylightMoon.1980:

He’s just another casual gw2 pve’er making the typical “its too hard for me so it should be easier for everyone else” childish argument we’ve heard a hundred times.

I’m not sure if you are the SkylightMoon I know, but if you are, you disappoint me. Can’t you seperate the actual difficulty of the raid, which is fine by the OP and the accessibility of that said raid?

The OP never said it’s too hard for me to do the content. He’s complaining that Anet dropped the ball when it come to the accessibility of the raid. I don’t agree 100% with the OP, but overall he is right.

To be clear. I have 5 characters in full ascended, I have my own Squad for raids and we are doing pretty ok for ourself in raid. For me raid are ok, but I can see that it missing key feature for a lot of people.

I said that a lot of times but, a Raid section in LFG, you should be able to use the LFG with a Squad instead leaving the Squad to find people and then invite them in the Squad. You should also be able so join or invite someone in a squad via the chat or the guild panel just like you can with a party. That’s pretty basic stuff that should be in the game since day one of the raids.

The other big point is that raid difficulty can’t be good for everybody. I find the difficulty perfect for my group, but it’s already in farm mode for some guild like DNT and it will be for a lot of other guild pretty soon. At the same time, a lot of players just can’t experience the raid and we should all stop saying that if you can’t experience the raid you are automatically a bad casual player because that’s not the case. Some of them are in a family/friend guild since day 1 with only 4-5 people. That doesn’t make them bad players. Some of them play thief with success since day one and now can’t get a place in pug raid, that doesn’t mean they are bad players. Some of them have ascended trinkets and weapons, but exotic armors (which is MORE than fine for the 1st Raid boss). He have a hard time getting a place in pugs raid, but that doesn’t mean he’s a bad players.

The point is a content can’t sustain itself if it’s only for a small portion of it’s community. It’s just not economically viable and I want raid to last. I want to get new raid on a regular basis and it’s not in putting our head in the sand and screaming CASUAL each time someone said something that we gonna get more and more raids. And easy mode with less rewards would be a good thing for everybody. It would give players that can’t complete the raid a way to at least experience the content, it would allow some of those players to learn the fight and become better at it so they will be able to pull their weight in normal raids. These same players would gain a new way to slowly acquire the ascended gear they need. It would give a bigger pool of players for pugs to form Raid Squad, which will be easier to form. More people able to experience and enjoy the content will mean more financial reason for Anet to keep that content alive. Win-Win for everybody. The difficulty of the raids stay intact, but it’s accessibility increase.

Your last criticism isnt very good because theres no proof that the current “growing” playerbase can’t sustain itself. Ever since this game was released people have been very vocal about wanting more difficult content. Anet gave us this and they specifically said that its meant to be very very challenging. It is.

Raids in their current state can be completed by anyone who is committed enough. I used to think VG was hard and now I think of it as trash basically. Its still easy to wipe but the level of mechanics and dps necessary to kill it is far less than something demanding like sabetha or gorseval.

The raiding community has just started as well. Give it time to grow. You’re saying it can’t sustain and raids were just released a week ago. Maybe it can’t sustain, maybe it can. Give it a few months, even wait until the next wing it released.

Pugging VG isn’t even an uncommon practice now. The community has continually gotten more skilled as this game has been developed and released successively more difficult content.

The point is, you are basically asking for an “LFR” difficulty for raids after only a week and thats a very premature criticism to make.

Kasteros.9847:

rainisword.7860:

Seeing a lot of comments here on the forums about how WvW is unplayable and the stability ruined everything. The only bad side ive seen about stability stacks so far is that it makes everything laggier because its extra numbers the server has to keep track of.

So far ive only seen that changes affect big pug blob fights. They are complete pirate ships now for the most part. I haven’t seen organized groups have much to any trouble with this at all actually. It requires more attentiveness for the melee on their stacks and their surrounding cc’s but thats about it.

This is probably one of the biggest changes that can really shake up the meta for WvW and people are already qqing about really silly things after 2 days. Give it time, watch the meta evolve, oh, and L2P.

So…now can u wipe out whole blob(60) with zerg(20)? U CAN’T. Why? Cos of massive cc and stabil spam – zergs and guilds can’t do a kitten to avoid it, and then they get flooded by 30 mt when they have 20 ppl( including mt and papers). And that is the point of ppl. I don’t give a kitten about zerg vs zegr cos u can have lot of strategies, but against blob…nothing work even stacking 25 stacks of stabil for leader. Also before patch u could wipe blob with zerg. So it isn;t about L2P like all u ppters say. It is about numbers, that is all.

Ive been amongst the top gvg guilds in this game, and I can tell you that wiping an actual 60 with 20 has been impossible since the few months after launch when wvw was full of uplevels and people who didnt know what the hell they were doing with no commander tag. A lot of guilds, top guilds, severely exaggerate the number they fight. A realistic 60 looks like 80 or a full map queue.

You couldn’t kill 60 semi-coordinated people before who know how to press skills because damage was nerfed so many times in this game. The blob youd fight would have to be really really stupid to die to a 1/3rd their number.

I still raid every night with my guild and were able to go against +30 somtimes 40 with 18.

If you think about it, the list of complaints people make are really bad actually. It all comes down to “they have more cc’s so they are empowered cuz their larger numbers.” That same fact has ALWAYS been true when fighting larger numbers. Larger numbers have more potential damage, cc, and sustain than you, yet thats never stopped zergbusting because it comes down to whose more coordinated.

Sure, a 60 man group may have 80 plus targetless cc’s, but that doesnt’ mean they are coordinated enough to slam them all down at once.

Driver sniping is toxic, and EU has really taken it to an entirely new level compared to how it was on NA. Its gone away for the most part on NA but reappears eventually. NA has moved onto new tactics.

Pirate shipping has been here a while though despite the stab changes, and there are ways to deal with it, its just not that many guilds are clever enough to figure out how. I don’t really think its a good excuse to quit. I think you guys should give it another shot.

Its used on mesmer very frequently now. It goes great with shatter because the torch 4 stealth engage works really well to setup a big shatter, plus when the stealth ends the skill itself does a bit of damage.

But ye its not that common of a weapon. Sorta like mace.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

rainisword.7860:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

rainisword.7860:

The finished product tough will be 6 trait lines obv. 1 extra for the specialization.

Source?

Its an educated guess. Every class now has 5 trait lines normally, I assume the same for the revenant. Plus every class will get one specialization that includes a new traitline in the expansion, so thats why I say 6. The thing about specialization is I think unlocking it actually restricts your other professions mechanic trait line. Im pretty sure Ive heard this in an early interview but I can’t remember where.

So that’s not 6 trait lines but 5, though 1 of the 5 being different when you choose to specialize, which is, at this point, merely speculation. We don’t really know how the specializations will work.

No. Its still 6 trait lines. Its either going to be 6 trait lines at once or 6 trait lines with one restricted. They said in an interview were getting a new trait line or something like that.

They already detailed that we get a new et of utilies,heal,elite, new traits, a new profession mechanic, and a weapon we previous didn’t have.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

rainisword.7860:

The finished product tough will be 6 trait lines obv. 1 extra for the specialization.

Source?

Its an educated guess. Every class now has 5 trait lines normally, I assume the same for the revenant. Plus every class will get one specialization that includes a new traitline in the expansion, so thats why I say 6. The thing about specialization is I think unlocking it actually restricts your other professions mechanic trait line. Im pretty sure Ive heard this in an early interview but I can’t remember where.

Only one of the lines focuses specifically on condi. One is more supportive and tanky and thats the dwarf line. The invocation line is more of the classes mechanic line from what I understand. Sorta how illusions is for mesmers or deathshroud for necro.

The finished product tough will be 6 trait lines obv. 1 extra for the specialization.

Scoobaniec.9561:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Scoobaniec.9561:

rainisword.7860:

Scoobaniec.9561:

rainisword.7860:

Also, the one other trait I used that felt super strong was the fury related trait where fury is now 70%.

A reason why i cant take your post serious. Why?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Roiling_Mists
l2read issue

Ye my fault, I tested it in game though and it actually buffs your fury to 50% instead of 20. So thats really strong still. I went from 30 percent crit chance to 80. If you combined that with the other crit chance trait you could easily have 100 all the time lol. It works really well if you get access from fury from your heals and stunbreaking. At that point you have 100% fury uptime.

Still wrong.

Effectiveness Increased: 50% – means its 50% better than base effect. In this case 20+50%=30% crit chance from fury

He tested it and his test shows otherwise. Sure, what you’re saying is how it should work given what’s written, but that doesn’t mean it’s how it actually works.

I doubt he actually tested it given his first post. If that is actually true then its nothing else but a bug but i would like to see screenschot at this point.

Im a bit ofensive but im tired with all that “revenant op nerf asap” bs

I never said nerf revenant lol im just giving my thoughts on the class as I see it. Chill out. Don’t be jelly you didnt get an inv. I’ll post a proof pic if you really want one.

I really like the revenant so far actually. It has an interesting playstyle that I still haven’t figured out. It does have the ability to spam a ton of condis though which is interesitng. I managed to put 15 stacks of confusion on in about 4 seconds.

However my feeling is, is that it will be like that and you can’t just spam skills(like heartseeker), but must stick to a certain rotation.

Scoobaniec.9561:

rainisword.7860:

Scoobaniec.9561:

rainisword.7860:

Also, the one other trait I used that felt super strong was the fury related trait where fury is now 70%.

A reason why i cant take your post serious. Why?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Roiling_Mists
l2read issue

Ye my fault, I tested it in game though and it actually buffs your fury to 50% instead of 20. So thats really strong still. I went from 30 percent crit chance to 80. If you combined that with the other crit chance trait you could easily have 100 all the time lol. It works really well if you get access from fury from your heals and stunbreaking. At that point you have 100% fury uptime.

Still wrong.

Effectiveness Increased: 50% – means its 50% better than base effect. In this case 20+50%=30% crit chance from fury

Dude im playing the beta right now, id know better than you lol. Fury gives you 50% crit chance not 30. I know what it says and how it sounds and thats what I thought as well. I easily got 100% crit chance with both grandmasters. Because you can have a high fury uptime and gain crit chance continually in combat until you are crit.

Scoobaniec.9561:

rainisword.7860:

Also, the one other trait I used that felt super strong was the fury related trait where fury is now 70%.

A reason why i cant take your post serious. Why?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Roiling_Mists
l2read issue

Ye my fault, I tested it in game though and it actually buffs your fury to 50% instead of 20. So thats really strong still. I went from 30 percent crit chance to 80. If you combined that with the other crit chance trait you could easily have 100 all the time lol. It works really well if you get access from fury from your heals and stunbreaking. At that point you have 100% fury uptime.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

rainisword.7860:

Firstly, its very cool that you are aiming to remove the condi cap in pve and maybe make some things more viable.

What I must add though is that removing the cap in somewhere like spvp or wvw would completely break the game unless somehting else was changed about condis. Condis’ do have their place in sPvP, thats obvious.

In WvW they also have their place. Its in small scale fights where because of the stat bonuses, they are stupidly strong. It doesn’t need to be buffed because its not viable in large scale fights. Damage condi’s have no real place in large scale fights but soft cc’s(chill, cripple, immobilize) absolutely do(also blind).

except they wouldn’t break anything because they are balanced exactly the same as power builds except with a cap.

1 power build can do ~5k dps to a player in a 1v1
2 power builds can do ~10k dps to a player in a 2v1
3 power builds can do ~15k dps to a player in a 3v1

Currently:
1 condi build can do ~4k dps to a player in a 1v1
2 condi builds can do ~7k dps to a player in a 2v1
3 condi builds can do ~7k dps to a player in a 3v1

After the change:
1 condi build can do ~4k dps to a player in a 1v1
2 condi builds can do ~8k dps to a player in a 2v1
3 condi builds can do ~12k dps to a player in a 3v1

So no it wouldn’t break anything, it would finally balance it somewhat. condi builds are still at a dps disadvantage due to poor stat scaling, lack of crits, and condition cleanses.

The one advantage of condi builds is that they hit all classes with equal dps since they are not affected by armor. However that amount is lower than what power builds hit for across the board.

Condi’s have always been capped in sPvP and still have an integral part in the meta. They are very strong against certain matchups(condi pressure from double engi is huge). This should tell you enough about how bad it would be in sPvP if there was no condi cap.

Also your math is wrong when calculating the condi’s. 7k dps from 3 condi classes is not really accurate. You have to take into account if they had high might with most condis stacked on them. In that case it would probably be closer to 8 or 10k, not 7. 25 bleeds alone with might can do close to 3500 damage per second.

Dont worry you’re getting greatsword.

I played in the beta today and was spending a lot of time tinkering with rotations and looking at traits. What do you guys think? I love the mechanics of the class, but there are a few things im worried about.

Mainly this class seems to have a kittenload of condi output lol. There are already classes/builds in this game that have the same, but from what I remember hearing from devs, they said from a design perspective that with condi heavy classes they didn’t want them to have a lot of condi mitigation(even though this isn’t true for some condi builds). I feel like this is completely untrue for revenant. There are a ton of ways you can usefully mitigate condis.

The devs called it condi manipulation(similar to how necros do) and it certainly is but doesn’t that essentially achieve the same thing as condi removal does(getting rid of the threat of condis’).

I could be wrong, maybe it won’t be as strong as I think. Also, the one other trait I used that felt super strong was the fury related trait where fury is now 70%.

Firstly, its very cool that you are aiming to remove the condi cap in pve and maybe make some things more viable.

What I must add though is that removing the cap in somewhere like spvp or wvw would completely break the game unless somehting else was changed about condis. Condis’ do have their place in sPvP, thats obvious.

In WvW they also have their place. Its in small scale fights where because of the stat bonuses, they are stupidly strong. It doesn’t need to be buffed because its not viable in large scale fights. Damage condi’s have no real place in large scale fights but soft cc’s(chill, cripple, immobilize) absolutely do(also blind).

Impact.2780:

rainisword.7860:

There definitely isn’t enough counterplay to stealth.

AoE, cleaves, push backs, knock downs, immobilise, stuns, counter stealth, mobility, invulnerability, block. Plenty of counter play. I suppose most people that have the mindset for playing such deceptive, tricky, out-witting games are people who enjoy playing thief more than the other classes. So many players, seeing the enemy player enter stealth, will just stand there and wait to be hit, then complain. I mean, at least bloody move. Movement in itself is a counter – the weakest, granted – but they have to follow you, and that takes the same time it took you to cover that distance! It buys time, maybe even the full duration of the stealth causing it to wear off before they hit you, and it may even force them to use a resource(s) to close the gap. Counting is another underrated counter… Count the seconds, then enter stealth yourself or use an invulnerability skill or a block. Aegis too at least let’s you know the stealthed player is nearby.

rainisword.7860:

There definitely isn’t enough counterplay to stealth. Its also that there isn’t enough counterplay to certain abilities that shadowstep because they happen instantly wihtout any animation so you can’t dodge(besides the pistol shadow step). Like steal.

You mean like…
- Lightning strike (trait)
- Lightning strike (scepter)
- Blinding flash
- Hurl
- Arcane wave
- Arcane blast
- Lightning flash
- Spinal shivers
- Blink
- Phase retreat
- Smite condition
- Judge’s intervention
- Overcharged shot
- Numerous invulnerability skills like endure pain, defy pain, signet of stone (not counting mist form or elixir s because they have a tradeoff), and blocks, which can come out instantly to counter burst.
- And yes shadow step, and infiltrator’s signet. Leave steal alone, it’s a profession skill. Virtues, enter death shroud, attunement swap and alright not exactly the profession skill but practically: equip/unqeuip kit, have no cast time.

Thief has them… So does every other class. Ele and guard have the most.

Push backs and cc? Ye that works on shadow refuge lol. There isn’t enough counter play for when the thief is already stealth, thats the problem. D/P can permastealth as long as it wants, a good player will do that to bate out things like aegis or other abilities.

The reply to the shadowstep is not a good one either. Wasting a distortion or a focus 4 on earth to evade a quick steal with sigil procs isn’t a good trade off at all. Wasting big cooldowns in general to avoid an ability that thieves can do pretty frequently isn’t a good trade off either. Especially a low skill cap build like an S/D thief who can sneak in really quick and then shadowstep out. They shadowstep in, bait your cooldowns or your burst, then move back out, along with the fact that they have access to like 10 times the amount of evades as other players.

A lot of the skills you also listed as well that arn’t telegraphed probably should be. Especially some s/f ele skills. Big damage that isn’t telegraphed is essentially free and makes things too easy.

Zenith.7301:

Every zerker dies easier compared to a thief.

Stealth in this game is plain broken, with few counters other than guessing and flailing at thing air since blocks and blinds don’t reveal the thief.

And even if the thief fails the burst he can reset at will thanks to sword port/shadowstep/shadow refuge or hell just the good old BP>HS.

What did you think would happen if you gave a class the highest burst, the highest mobility, and plenty of resets plus constant access to invisibility?

They went and nerfed ranger endurance regen trait from 50% down to 25% yet thieves got to keep feline grace, which was a way better version since feline graces STACKS with vigor, while the ranger trait did not (endurance refund stacks with vigor, endurance regen caps at 100% with vigor up).

But apparently a thief with the equivalent of a serpent strike that can be chained several times and nukes people for way more damage on top of all the evades/ports/blinds a thief can have is totally fine.

There definitely isn’t enough counterplay to stealth. Its also that there isn’t enough counterplay to certain abilities that shadowstep because they happen instantly wihtout any animation so you can’t dodge(besides the pistol shadow step). Like steal.

Coulter.2315:

rainisword.7860:

Coulter.2315:

rainisword.7860:

Mak.2657:

rainisword.7860:

Mesmers can trash thieves in general. It just takes a really really good mesmer. S/D is only hard because landing a burst is super hard since they evade 50% of the time and landing a well timed burst on a good player in general is usually tricky. d/p can get really trashed by a mesmer if you break their stealth. If it were pure dueling, mesmer would win most of the time if they were using CI

Good(!) d/p thief beats good mesmer (CI too) IMO. D/p aware of lockdown mesmer would’t use easy interruptible blackpowder+hearseeker combo too much. Blind and damage spam through shadow shot + positioning behind mesmer back (for harder blind cleanse through AA) + dodging + LoS + active shortbow use + roots through panic strike and surpise shot + good auto and frequent sigils procs + good use of stolen stability = fight in thief favor. It is true that mesm have more chances against d\p then sw\d, but still thief has upper hand.
Ppl just don’t meet lockdown mesmer often, so still not adapted to fight him in general, but it matter of practice.
Thief has lesser weapon coodowns (if assume iniative is global weapon CD), i.e. more frequent use of burst/pressure

LOL what a joke. Again, D/P is done as soon as its stealth is broken. The matchup is very much in favor of the mesmer because of how easy it is to interrupt them and because of how predictable the d/p rotation is and how easy it is to interrupt with how many you already have.

Are you trying to Powder/HS next to the Mesmer by chance? xD

I main mesmer so im telling you that d/p is trashed easily by CI because its true lol. Go to a dueling arena and watch some CI vs d/p fights if you can to educate yourself.

He just told me to go to a dueling arena xD

Because you clearly don’t understand the matchup lol.

Anet made the idiotic decision to remove solo queue after putting it ingame.

Coulter.2315:

rainisword.7860:

Mak.2657:

rainisword.7860:

Mesmers can trash thieves in general. It just takes a really really good mesmer. S/D is only hard because landing a burst is super hard since they evade 50% of the time and landing a well timed burst on a good player in general is usually tricky. d/p can get really trashed by a mesmer if you break their stealth. If it were pure dueling, mesmer would win most of the time if they were using CI

Good(!) d/p thief beats good mesmer (CI too) IMO. D/p aware of lockdown mesmer would’t use easy interruptible blackpowder+hearseeker combo too much. Blind and damage spam through shadow shot + positioning behind mesmer back (for harder blind cleanse through AA) + dodging + LoS + active shortbow use + roots through panic strike and surpise shot + good auto and frequent sigils procs + good use of stolen stability = fight in thief favor. It is true that mesm have more chances against d\p then sw\d, but still thief has upper hand.
Ppl just don’t meet lockdown mesmer often, so still not adapted to fight him in general, but it matter of practice.
Thief has lesser weapon coodowns (if assume iniative is global weapon CD), i.e. more frequent use of burst/pressure

LOL what a joke. Again, D/P is done as soon as its stealth is broken. The matchup is very much in favor of the mesmer because of how easy it is to interrupt them and because of how predictable the d/p rotation is and how easy it is to interrupt with how many you already have.

Are you trying to Powder/HS next to the Mesmer by chance? xD

I main mesmer so im telling you that d/p is trashed easily by CI because its true lol. Go to a dueling arena and watch some CI vs d/p fights if you can to educate yourself.

jportell.2197:

rainisword.7860:

jportell.2197:

Rome.7124:

rainisword.7860:

TheGreatA.4192:

Mak.2657:

TheGreatA.4192:

If the guy understood enough to actually stay close to his teammates, taking the buffs that warriors and guardians are giving out, the thief chasing him would be the one getting wrecked all over the place.

Mesmer work in pvp – roam and make + 1 fast fights. Same for thief. Thief wouldn’t jump on mesmer in 1vs2+ . He would jump when mesmer roams or in fight vs other enemies. Mesmer can jump on thief in same way too, just thief does that work better.

A good mesmer pays attention to where the enemy thief is, and tries to actively avoid him. I’m talking about guys who actively seek to fight the thief, and lose every single time, then complain about being hard-countered.

In a team fight, of more than 1 person, the thief will generally always jump on the mesmer. It’s up to the mesmer to make the right call and attempt to 2v1 the thief with the person he is fighting with, instead of running about thinking he can kite the guy magically and getting ganked in a 1on1 situation since he is too far away from his teammates.

Mesmer can easily trash the thief if he receives some protection from his team.

Mesmers can trash thieves in general. It just takes a really really good mesmer. S/D is only hard because landing a burst is super hard since they evade 50% of the time and landing a well timed burst on a good player in general is usually tricky. d/p can get really trashed by a mesmer if you break their stealth. If it were pure dueling, mesmer would win most of the time if they were using CI

sure, if everyone plays like Supcutie, we would need thread like this… But the fact is not many Mesmers players can play up to that level, and at even skill level, advantage goes to Thieves. With the current meta being Cele-focused build that can absorb decent damage and dish out decent damage, Mesmers is below the curve. When one of the most played class is your hard counter, your life in sPvP is pretty tough.

Honestly even if you take Supcutie vs. Caed, Toker, or Sizer, it’s a no question on who will win more often than not. The thief, and you could argue that all of them are better than supcutie til you are blue in the face, that is a matter of opinion. What is very sad to see is that in every tournament where there is a mesmer anytime a thief engages a mesmer on a point the first thing the caster says is “the thief has a huge advantage in this fight”, or “the mesmer is prolly gonna want to disengage.” Seeing that and saying the thief v mesmer match up is fine is asinine. Yes I know they are competing for the same role in PvP. But mesmer needs a shot of at least somewhat being an option over a thief.

There are lots of really good mesmers onthe same level or better than supcutie when it comes to pure dueling capability. I don’t think the fights would be as one-sided as you’d think. Shatter can absolutely trash thief just depending on the way you play it. An important point people are trying to make though, is that to really do good against thieves, especially good ones, you have to be extremely good at mesmer. Whilst the opposite isn’t true against thief if you want to beat a mesmer.

Its funny you mention caed though because Ive seen him get trashed pretty badly in the OS dueling people lol.

Mesmer Dueling builds have not nor will ever work in conquest.

Most mesmers duel on shatter though lol.

StickerHappy.8052:

SobeSoul.6910:

Ranger should have same exact range as Mesmer.

It does untraited, but if you make it that way, Rangers would suck more. Cmon I main mesmer, but you gotta show some sympathy to other classes too. Rangers are in a bad state as it is. Mesmers and Necros too.

lol @ rangers are in a bad state. I wouldn’t put it that way. I would say they arnt fully optimal but not all parts of ranger are bad. The longbow damage is stupidly strong and just by pressing 1 and 2. They have a huge advantage on maps like temple and legacy.

Ranger needs more reworking because as it stands, power ranger is too rewarding for how little you put into it. Maybe this is the intent of the class though. I mean ranger specs in general have always had a kitten entry level that allow you to still pose a threat while having no real skill whatsoever(condi regen ranger, power).

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Thieves can’t 1 shot you from stealth. Mesmers can. I have a bigger problem with that.

lol…. Thieves have infinitely more stealth than mesmers. For a mesmer to 1 shot you from stealth, youd have to be pretty kitten glassy(a thief or another mesmer) and he’d have to blow torch 4 with mirror images, gs 2, mindwrack and mindstab. They’d all have to crit as well. Thieves go stealth and only have to press 1 skill to land a 12k backstab with sigil procs. And they can restealth incredibly easily. Theres no comparison between the two really.

Aomine.5012:

rainisword.7860:

The broken thing about ranger is mainly its autoattack. Its inescapable, hits hard as hell, fires fast as hell also. Even in sPvP, the autoattack from a ranger while I play a zerker class is about 2-3k on a crit without sigil procs. Thats just from pressing 1 lol. In wvw ive been hit for 8k by an autoattack with sigil procs.

Basically, as it stands, all you really need to do on ranger is press 1 and 2 and stand really far away to be super effective. Its too great of a reward for the tiny effort it takes.

It is only when traited RtW that LB becomes inescapable. Otherwise the flying speed of LB is still slow as hell. You need to sacrifices things like piercing arrow, spotter, and predator’s onslaught just to make LB reliably hit, how is it not a tradeoff?

My suggestion is, STOP RUNNING AWAY FROM RANGER. If you fight him up front and pressure him in closer ranger, you have much better chance of winning a ranger. You can even just move behind him and outright cancel the RF halfway. (It happens to my ranger A LOT when fighting some better opponent who knows what he’s doing)

I know this already. Almost every ranger traits for faster arrows though. And closing the gap 1800 range is pretty difficult in most cases.

The broken thing about ranger is mainly its autoattack. Its inescapable, hits hard as hell, fires fast as hell also. Even in sPvP, the autoattack from a ranger while I play a zerker class is about 2-3k on a crit without sigil procs. Thats just from pressing 1 lol. In wvw ive been hit for 8k by an autoattack with sigil procs.

Basically, as it stands, all you really need to do on ranger is press 1 and 2 and stand really far away to be super effective. Its too great of a reward for the tiny effort it takes.

Login.5102:

rainisword.7860:

No matter how they balance the game, something will always be meta and certain things will not be viable. PvP in every game is like this. It could definitely better but its not ever going to be a truly “play what you want and you’re equal with everyone else” meta.

I know there will always be meta builds that will excel over others.

I am trying to point out the huge amount of traits/runes/etc that have never been used in ANY builds since the launch of the game.

Ye the meta needs to be shaken up more often. Right now we’ve been stuck in a cele meta for like a year now.

The pirate ship meta has just become a more common place word used in wvw since the stab changes because its what pug fights have resulted in.

However, the pirate ship word and meta has actually been around for a while in the gvg scene but for different reasons. The main reason was because everyone ran super glassy ranged with plus condi, and had enough damage to 1 push each other, so people became to scared to push most times and a lot of gvgs resulted in pirate ship battles battles of range focus for about 3 minutes until someone spiked down an enemy and from there, people would use that downed to try to snowball the fight.

The servers are officially 10 times laggier because oft he new stability stacks. The only reason it was impossible to kill a blob tonight, was not because of stability, but because of the insane unplayable lag caused by what is probably the new stability stacks.

It was pretty unplayable in t2 at first. Dont know how it is now. I think I know why it is like this though. Its the new stability system. The stack system means its more numbers for the server to keep track of, therefore laggier.

No matter how they balance the game, something will always be meta and certain things will not be viable. PvP in every game is like this. It could definitely better but its not ever going to be a truly “play what you want and you’re equal with everyone else” meta.

True. I can’t even really tell what the future of sPvP in this game is. Introducing a new moba like mode may help since mobas are successful in esports but there are so many other things necessary to make PvP in a game competetive and Anet is ignoring so many of them. In game tourneys, in game leadersboards, leaderboards that arn’t broke, etc.

Today at reset. Everyone is lagging. Every map. A few guilds have already left the bl’s.

dancingmonkey.4902:

rainisword.7860:

Coldtart.4785:

Did it bruise the egos of the siege monkeys here to see a video of a guild so easily doing what you keep claiming was impossible? Here it is again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-L91Sq1zzAQ
Permanent stability was actually possible during this time. The guild I was in actually used to run it, but we didn’t become good enough to really win hard fights until we reduced our guardian count from 3 to 2 per party and ran more dps. No one was ever being carried by stability, but scrubs now are being carried by line cc.

If Anet wanted to increase counterplay to stability they should’ve increased its boon strip priority for common aoe boon strips instead of allowing cc to counter its own counter.

By the way, if any of you siege monkeys wants to say urrrrrrrrrrrr l2p adapt or die to me, take a look at my sig. I’m a lightning rod staff ele. This new meta is brain dead easy mode for me.

Literally no good guild in existence in either EU or NA ran enough guards in 1 party to have permastab. You know why? Permastab is useless, thats why. You’re not constantly spiking with your melee. There are times where you are moving from place to place or even regrouping. The only important time to have stab is when you are engaged with the enemy melee. Its the same thing with fury. You don’t really need 2 wars per melee part for permafury because you don’t need permanent fury since you arn’t always spiking.

You lost me at the point you claimed permanent stability as useless.

I just told to you why it is lol. Ive been in probably 1000 open field fights in this game. You don’t need stability when you are 1200 from the enemy and regrouping. You don’t need it when you are single targeting a ranged. Only when you are on the melee.

This is ridiculous how laggy WvW is right now. Just walking through a map I can’t activate my skills. I can’t fight anyone, no point, because I can’t even swap weapons. T2 right now is absolutely awful.

Why make a game mode that can’t even properly function?

Coldtart.4785:

Did it bruise the egos of the siege monkeys here to see a video of a guild so easily doing what you keep claiming was impossible? Here it is again.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-L91Sq1zzAQ
Permanent stability was actually possible during this time. The guild I was in actually used to run it, but we didn’t become good enough to really win hard fights until we reduced our guardian count from 3 to 2 per party and ran more dps. No one was ever being carried by stability, but scrubs now are being carried by line cc.

If Anet wanted to increase counterplay to stability they should’ve increased its boon strip priority for common aoe boon strips instead of allowing cc to counter its own counter.

By the way, if any of you siege monkeys wants to say urrrrrrrrrrrr l2p adapt or die to me, take a look at my sig. I’m a lightning rod staff ele. This new meta is brain dead easy mode for me.

Literally no good guild in existence in either EU or NA ran enough guards in 1 party to have permastab. You know why? Permastab is useless, thats why. You’re not constantly spiking with your melee. There are times where you are moving from place to place or even regrouping. The only important time to have stab is when you are engaged with the enemy melee. Its the same thing with fury. You don’t really need 2 wars per melee part for permafury because you don’t need permanent fury since you arn’t always spiking.

We just fought IX a few days ago. Heres a vid from a friends persepctive https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lILje2NjRQ

Ye I felt cced more than normal, however I actually liked the things that evolved from the fight. Coordinating CC bombs more was pretty cool actually. In some other gvgs recently we tried sanctuary bombs which pretty much siege razered the enemy lol.

You just have to keep a much closer eye on your stacks and find a way to either CC them first or close the gap quick enough(from stealth maybe or other ways) to get right on top of them to CC them so they have to move.

SlimChance.6593:

Um……“shatter” Mesmers are mainly traited in Illusions and Dueling. Illusionary Persona(GM trait in Illusions) which counts the Mesmer in every shatter, and Deceptive Evasion(Duelling) to quickly generate clones TO shatter. Those 2 traits define “shatter mesmer”.

Deceptive evasion pretty much defines every mesmer build though lol.

If mesmer was buffed I wouldn’t want it buffed in a way that made it a stupid facerolly nonsense class like all the other cele meta builds right now. That would just be embarassing for high level pvp in this game lol.

jportell.2197:

Rome.7124:

rainisword.7860:

TheGreatA.4192:

Mak.2657:

TheGreatA.4192:

If the guy understood enough to actually stay close to his teammates, taking the buffs that warriors and guardians are giving out, the thief chasing him would be the one getting wrecked all over the place.

Mesmer work in pvp – roam and make + 1 fast fights. Same for thief. Thief wouldn’t jump on mesmer in 1vs2+ . He would jump when mesmer roams or in fight vs other enemies. Mesmer can jump on thief in same way too, just thief does that work better.

A good mesmer pays attention to where the enemy thief is, and tries to actively avoid him. I’m talking about guys who actively seek to fight the thief, and lose every single time, then complain about being hard-countered.

In a team fight, of more than 1 person, the thief will generally always jump on the mesmer. It’s up to the mesmer to make the right call and attempt to 2v1 the thief with the person he is fighting with, instead of running about thinking he can kite the guy magically and getting ganked in a 1on1 situation since he is too far away from his teammates.

Mesmer can easily trash the thief if he receives some protection from his team.

Mesmers can trash thieves in general. It just takes a really really good mesmer. S/D is only hard because landing a burst is super hard since they evade 50% of the time and landing a well timed burst on a good player in general is usually tricky. d/p can get really trashed by a mesmer if you break their stealth. If it were pure dueling, mesmer would win most of the time if they were using CI

sure, if everyone plays like Supcutie, we would need thread like this… But the fact is not many Mesmers players can play up to that level, and at even skill level, advantage goes to Thieves. With the current meta being Cele-focused build that can absorb decent damage and dish out decent damage, Mesmers is below the curve. When one of the most played class is your hard counter, your life in sPvP is pretty tough.

Honestly even if you take Supcutie vs. Caed, Toker, or Sizer, it’s a no question on who will win more often than not. The thief, and you could argue that all of them are better than supcutie til you are blue in the face, that is a matter of opinion. What is very sad to see is that in every tournament where there is a mesmer anytime a thief engages a mesmer on a point the first thing the caster says is “the thief has a huge advantage in this fight”, or “the mesmer is prolly gonna want to disengage.” Seeing that and saying the thief v mesmer match up is fine is asinine. Yes I know they are competing for the same role in PvP. But mesmer needs a shot of at least somewhat being an option over a thief.

There are lots of really good mesmers onthe same level or better than supcutie when it comes to pure dueling capability. I don’t think the fights would be as one-sided as you’d think. Shatter can absolutely trash thief just depending on the way you play it. An important point people are trying to make though, is that to really do good against thieves, especially good ones, you have to be extremely good at mesmer. Whilst the opposite isn’t true against thief if you want to beat a mesmer.

Its funny you mention caed though because Ive seen him get trashed pretty badly in the OS dueling people lol.

Mak.2657:

rainisword.7860:

Mesmers can trash thieves in general. It just takes a really really good mesmer. S/D is only hard because landing a burst is super hard since they evade 50% of the time and landing a well timed burst on a good player in general is usually tricky. d/p can get really trashed by a mesmer if you break their stealth. If it were pure dueling, mesmer would win most of the time if they were using CI

Good(!) d/p thief beats good mesmer (CI too) IMO. D/p aware of lockdown mesmer would’t use easy interruptible blackpowder+hearseeker combo too much. Blind and damage spam through shadow shot + positioning behind mesmer back (for harder blind cleanse through AA) + dodging + LoS + active shortbow use + roots through panic strike and surpise shot + good auto and frequent sigils procs + good use of stolen stability = fight in thief favor. It is true that mesm have more chances against d\p then sw\d, but still thief has upper hand.
Ppl just don’t meet lockdown mesmer often, so still not adapted to fight him in general, but it matter of practice.
Thief has lesser weapon coodowns (if assume iniative is global weapon CD), i.e. more frequent use of burst/pressure

LOL what a joke. Again, D/P is done as soon as its stealth is broken. The matchup is very much in favor of the mesmer because of how easy it is to interrupt them and because of how predictable the d/p rotation is and how easy it is to interrupt with how many you already have.

Kasteros.9847:

Again to sum stuff up and miss wrong interpretation. PPL AREN’T QQING ABOUT ZERGS! FFS! Understand that! All are qqing about zergs vs larger groups. It is imposible to wipe em now…

I haven’t had this problem at all. I raided with my guildies and we had like 20 and were still able to wipe +40 t2 groups.

Seeing a lot of comments here on the forums about how WvW is unplayable and the stability ruined everything. The only bad side ive seen about stability stacks so far is that it makes everything laggier because its extra numbers the server has to keep track of.

So far ive only seen that changes affect big pug blob fights. They are complete pirate ships now for the most part. I haven’t seen organized groups have much to any trouble with this at all actually. It requires more attentiveness for the melee on their stacks and their surrounding cc’s but thats about it.

This is probably one of the biggest changes that can really shake up the meta for WvW and people are already qqing about really silly things after 2 days. Give it time, watch the meta evolve, oh, and L2P.

TheGreatA.4192:

Mak.2657:

TheGreatA.4192:

If the guy understood enough to actually stay close to his teammates, taking the buffs that warriors and guardians are giving out, the thief chasing him would be the one getting wrecked all over the place.

Mesmer work in pvp – roam and make + 1 fast fights. Same for thief. Thief wouldn’t jump on mesmer in 1vs2+ . He would jump when mesmer roams or in fight vs other enemies. Mesmer can jump on thief in same way too, just thief does that work better.

A good mesmer pays attention to where the enemy thief is, and tries to actively avoid him. I’m talking about guys who actively seek to fight the thief, and lose every single time, then complain about being hard-countered.

In a team fight, of more than 1 person, the thief will generally always jump on the mesmer. It’s up to the mesmer to make the right call and attempt to 2v1 the thief with the person he is fighting with, instead of running about thinking he can kite the guy magically and getting ganked in a 1on1 situation since he is too far away from his teammates.

Mesmer can easily trash the thief if he receives some protection from his team.

Mesmers can trash thieves in general. It just takes a really really good mesmer. S/D is only hard because landing a burst is super hard since they evade 50% of the time and landing a well timed burst on a good player in general is usually tricky. d/p can get really trashed by a mesmer if you break their stealth. If it were pure dueling, mesmer would win most of the time if they were using CI

I just raided yesterday and the stab changes really arnt that bad. I had to pay attention to my stacks more and switch to dolyak signet but otherwise everything was okay. I did get cced a bit more than usual tho.

What these changes really do is punish people who arn’t organized. Because you need a stab rotation now more than ever. Pugs are not organized enough to do this because they are pugs and can run whatever party setup or class they want.

I think that since these changes have just been introduced, we havent’ seen the full power of them yet. I think it will actually favor organized groups more in the end. Just wait til sanctuary becomes meta again and thats 12 targetless CC’s just from your guardians alone between line of warding and sanctuary.

root.2859:

Another suggestion to nerf stab in an acceptable way that still allows large scale melee combat:
Introduce some sort of stab cooldown to prevent parties from running perma stab: like every 5 seconds are followed by a 2 seconds period, during which you are immune to stab, so no stab can be applied to you and stab stacking gets capped to 5s (or sth similar)

No one ever had permastab though, your comment is bull. Melee groups ran 2 guards for stability, that rotated it through courage and stand your ground cooldowns. Thast 16 seconds total of stability if you did it one after another at once, but thats not also considering that courage has a huge cooldown.

The point is, no one ever had permastability unless you ran 4 guard parties which no good guild did. People did time their stability. The complaints about people saying stability was too OP are absolutely ignorant. Melee were by no means OP because of how easy it was to get them killed by boon ripping them. Corrupt boon is such a powerful aids skill you have no clue how easy it is to kill someone if you use it on them at the right time, like when you fire off your AOE spike.

Lordrosicky.5813:

There is nothing fun about getting knocked off a cliff and insta dying……ever

^

Ballads.2509:

In the end it just seems like they tried to make a map to get “more people” into wvw. A map for those who don’t like the current BL map and it style of game play. At the same time they force this map on the ones who do play in Alpine BL nightly and enjoy it.

I still think my comparison of Spvp losing Khylo in order to get Stronghold was accurate.
If you dont really enjoy WvW and want this new map I completely understand, it will definitely change things up, but at the cost of a play mode many of us have been enjoying since launch and play everyday. The cost is to high.

I agree a lot with this comment and I kinda feel like Anet is selling out by doing it. I mean making 3 out of the 4 borders be EOTM like and cater a lot more to PVE players? This sounds very fishy. I’ll give the map a shot because it does look pretty but if it ends up being too gimmicky and taking away from what WvW has been these last 2.5 years, then I’ll change my mind.

I need to take a trip to t1 because im quite curious how it compares to T2. T2 it absolutely massive right now. We have 4 stacked servers and imagining DB’s population being spread through all 3 is a nightmare. Friday night on YB we had a 100 man queue for EBG, ON YB, NO FA!! FA’s coverage is pretty unreal as well. They have a pretty constant zerg running through most maps throughout most periods of the day.

As for guilds, there are a ton, new ones come up all the time. If you are looking for a skill group, there are skill groups of almost all levels here, whehter you are looking for a 20 man raiding group or a roaming group.

When I think of this it makes me think its completely inconsiderate to any combat that actually goes on in the BL. I mean think about roamers on small scale. How could this affect specific peoples builds like condi builds? Granted I hate condi builds a ton because the stats are OP in WvW but still they are roamers too and it invalidates their playstyle because of some gimmicky mechanic.

DeWolfe.2174:

Watching it now and thinking, WTH were they thinking? This is what happens when the Dev’s do not get their butt’s on a map and actually play WvW. Hint to the Dev’s, WvW is about “us vs them”. WvW is not about “us vs Dev” or “us vs environment”. <sigh> I really do not know what they were thinking.

For the map esthetics, god is it an ugly looking map.

This is actually a good point. I wonder the same. I have devs on my friendlist who are “WvW” devs and I never see them in WvW, ever. Im on almost all the time on NA primetime and they are in HotM or doing sPvP.

I think devon and jessica are on NSP. Which interests me because T3 right now highlights the biggest and most longstanding problem in WvW, population. For those who don’t know, T3 has been an endless hell for NSP and another server of choice. Its basically been getting one of the 4 t2 servers every week, ticking 50 ppt on average, and running into a border being spawn camped because the enemy is so starved for fights.