Guild Wars 2

I don’t really care either way (leaning towards supporting private tags), but just to play devil’s advocate:

People generally want private tags because they don’t want random people following them and potentially causing a hindrance.

Anet are saying that facilitating this excludes players, and they want the game to be more inclusive.

I’m interpreting this as Anet wanting people to engage with and include the random players in the group, and that instead of treating them as annoyances you want to shake off, they’re hoping that players instead talk to them, teach them to be assets to the group.

Of course, some people are jerks: either the random player is an idiot that won’t listen, or the group are intolerant snobs who don’t want to help a newbie learn the ropes. Essentially making Anet’s vision of WvW players helping other players and singing kumbayah around a camp fire an unobtainable fantasy.

Daddar.5971:

You’re assuming everyone would pay to transfer up when the game mode is broken

Game mode being broken has nothing to do with the OP’s topic on population balance or my objection to forced transfers. I don’t see how forced transfers would improve the game mode.

Daddar.5971:

and the highest tier servers are full anyway.

Again, nothing to do with population issues. If the server you want to move to is full, then suggest increasing the number of people who can join the server or change the way “fullness” is calculated. Either way, absolutely nothing to do with destroying communities on “lower tiers”.

If you’re going to advocate for a server merge, then please give a good reason why a merge (forced transfer) is better than our current voluntary transfers.

So… it’s just another suggestion for a server merge. No thanks.

Why do people insist on this fantasy where the people on the “lower tier” servers will still want to play WvW when they are lumped in with those from the upper tiers? If they wanted to do that, they would have done so already via transfers.

I used to be part of an active SEA/OCX guild, but since everyone moved on to other games, I’ve been on the lookout for a new guild that’s active during the times I typically play.

Are you limited to players on Jade Quarry? I’m on another server in the lower tiers, and have no intention of ever moving. I’m in Western Australia (GMT+8) and mainly play on weekends, occasionally playing on weekday evenings if I’m not too tired from work.

I’m usually up for anything: wandering around maps, fractals, dungeons, etc. Would be nice to have a regular group of people to run around with. Although I’ve been playing since launch, I still feel like a newbie as I did most stuff solo and am more of a casual player, so I would love to learn new tips and tricks, as well as help out any new players wherever I can.

And what if we don’t want to move because we like our server?

I would support this feature if it means our server remains as it is, and gets purged of all the annoying players who are too stingy to pay for their own transfers thus whine all day about how servers should be merged.

While I agree that “night capping” is not as big of an issue as others may think, I disagree on the below:

Karmakiller.4670:

So PvE or repair gates not engaging gameplay at all.

Also some flat ground somewhere for GvG’s and blob fights would be much appreciated too.

Problem: Want fair regulated fights? Want focus on players fighting other players?
Solution: PvP is that way ->

There are several suggestions made in the WvW forum that seem like they would better suit the PvP game mode.

Personally, I love the “PvE” stuff in WvW. When I roam EBG, I look for unguarded camps to flip, or flip the ogres/frogs/dredge, or attack sentries and guards outside towers. The last thing I want is to be jumped by an enemy roamer because I know I won’t get out of an encounter alive. In my years of solo-roaming WvW, I’ve only defeated two enemy players on my own, one of which was an uplevel, the other was a really close match which I was downed in the end but survived by getting my pet to heal me.

So why don’t I stick to PvE maps if I don’t want to fight? Because I like that “edge”, that extra feeling that I need to be on the lookout for danger, flee as soon as I see a red name. Gives a sense of urgency to what I’m doing and keeps things interesting, whereas PvE maps are generally very predictable. And I do wander around the PvE maps when I want to do something relaxing with less tension.

My point is, repairing gates is part of WvW gameplay, a small and not-as-important part maybe, but still a part of it. If you want to gut everything but PvP from WvW, then might as well just play PvP.

Aeolus.3615:

im still trying to understand how merges into faction would cut your server community ?

While a server community is primarily dependent on who is on the server, it is also influenced by who is NOT on the server.

The server I’m currently (and have always been) on has had a few periods of turmoil and toxicity because of large arrogant guilds mass transferring over and acting as if they are better than us, that we should be grateful that they’re boosting our rankings.

But any temporary boost in rankings is not worth the population decimation that occurs when that large guild transfers away again, along with a few new recruits. At one point our server tanked all the way to the bottom. Today, we have built ourselves up again through the hard work of loyal players as well as transfers who share our vision.

In PvE, it’s easy to ignore other players, and just about everyone shares a common goal anyway, so arrogant toxic players are not much of a concern. However, in WvW, numbers and cooperation are key, and having toxic players who cause drama can cause many to quit altogether.

As a result, there are a few servers in the lower tiers that have a unique identity, where like minded people have gathered together. If you’re not happy with your server, then transfer. I am yet to hear a good reason why any sort of merge should be considered when players are already free to move to a server that has what you want.

Skynet.7201:

The upper tiers are just fine, thank you very much. I think it’s safe to say most people are pretty much happy in the upper tiers or else we would have transferred down.

Yep, and this post… https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Why-not-merge-all-servers-into-alliances/first#post5800828

…is an excellent explanation of why dumping different servers (whether it’s upper or lower tiers) together into one group isn’t the sunshine and rainbows that some people think it is.

Skynet.7201:

If people refuse to transfer up and stay in lower tier servers, it stands to reason they won’t like a WvW megaserver.

Exactly! If us lower server players were not happy with the way things are, then we would have transferred elsewhere or quit. But no, we stay because we like the ups and downs of our server.

Skynet.7201:

If anything (and this has been said over and over and OVER… some of the lower tiers should be merged.

Eww no! Kill it with fire!

As stated above, if you don’t like the way things are, then get lost! Go to another server.

Server “merges” already exist in the form of transfers. There is no good reason to force people who don’t want to transfer to transfer against their will. If only “lower” servers are merged, then that is the day I quit WvW.

I have never played the PvP game modes, but it sound like the people who want constant fights belong there, rather than in WvW. What I like about WvW is the changing situation and variety of activities, and while I enjoy a skirmish here and there, I don’t play WvW to fight all the time.

Swagger.1459:

And transfers kill servers too… And transfers are not long term solutions to bigger problems…

Yet a server merge is just another word for forced transfer.

The only difference between a server merge and transfer is that people currently get to choose whether or not they transfer, whereas the merge that some people are begging for takes away that choice.

Server merges are not long term solutions to bigger problems…

Swagger.1459:

I really didn’t need to respond to each part of your post. I gave a response that encompassed everything. Besides, none of what you said provides a real solution so I didn’t feel like picking it apart at the time, but I’ll give you more to chew on now.

Still doesn’t answer the original point that players can already “merge” on their own via transfers.

If you don’t care about “server pride”, then transfer to a more populated server to get the play-style you want. No need to destroy environments and communities that people enjoy.

If I could afford it, I would pay the transfer costs for everyone on the low tier servers that whine for unhelpful server merges.

To be clear, I don’t want high tier players moving down to lower tiers, we don’t need “that kind” in our community. But the whingers in the lower tier should transfer up if they’re not happy in our communities.

albotelho.2931:

@Arius and @roxybudgy

Do you guys really believe that we have enough WvW players to fill 24 servers?

Transfering will not solve my issue… I am on t1 that should be full of players and WvW is empty, borderlands almost dead… going to a lower server will not solve it… I have no problem with my server, the problem is WvW as a whole… it is empty even roaming sucks on the borderlands, EBG is not so bad but I would not like to have only one viable map…

I would like to understand why you guys think WvW is good as it is now. What exactly is this playstyle you guys are defending so hard that is working on the server you are now? If you dont mind to explain it.

1. No, nor do we want or expect all servers to be “full” all the time.

2. Are you referring to the current situation? If yes, then I would say most people are grinding masteries in PvE, which would explain a drop in players in WvW. I don’t play during NA prime-time, nor have I spent any time in T1 WvW, but it seems highly unlikely that T1 would be “dead”.

Everyone is claiming that their server is “dead” and forced to face other servers with much greater numbers. Well, if all servers are “dead”, then which server is everyone referring to that has great numbers? And why don’t you move to that server?

3. It’s a little different for each person, but personally the main appeal of smaller populations is that I feel like my contribution matters more, as opposed to being a drop of water in a vast laggy ocean.

albotelho.2931:

Empty maps and unbalanced matchs are not enough as an explanation? I think that if we had fewer servers those issues would not be completely solved but would be much better than now.

I do not want more man power just to have an edge over other servers, I just want maps that are not dead and you take 30 minutes to find an enemy, I do not like to PvD empty towers and keeps… just that. If t1 is like this I cant imagine lower tiers are any better. So I think transfering will not do any difference right now.

It’s still not an explanation why the people who want more people to play with can’t just transfer to a server that does have the population that satisfies them.

You want maps that are not “dead”? We already have those, go transfer to them. Same goes for anyone else who doesn’t like “dead” maps. The server I play on has a small, yet dedicated group of players who play WvW pretty much every day regardless of how outnumbered we are, and we still have fun doing it.

The server I had has gone through periods where guilds from other servers join and arrogantly act as if we owe them just for being on our server, they collect new recruits, then transfer them all away to another server again, leaving our server gutted and free-falling down the rankings. We still played on, and while noone likes to lose all the time, day in day out I still saw the same familiar faces defending objectives, flipping camps, running around. Things move at a slower pace, and I like it like that.

Want to continue to play with friends? You all still have the ability to transfer, just costs gems or gold. If the servers were merged, there is no option to “transfer” back to the play-style and community we liked. No amount of gold or gems would bring that back. Better to do nothing at all than to do irreparable damage for no good reason.

I’m still waiting to hear an explanation of why a server merge is needed when transfers are available.

albotelho.2931:

Well this may be your opinion and I understand that some people prefer things the way they are today, but I see a lot of lower tier players asking for a merge and a solution for population balance.

I have played in a lot of diffetent tiers I began in Darkhaven, passed through Crystal Desert, Enhry Bay, SoR, and now I am in YB since april 2014, so I know enough about lower tiers and high tiers to say that the majority of people want a merge.

Every time the server merge issue comes up, those who support it either:
1) Can’t afford to transfer to a more populated server.
2) Are already on a more populated server but want more manpower to give them an edge over other servers.

I have never transferred servers, nor do I want to. The server I play on has had players come and go, and even large player exodus doesn’t change the core community feeling that we get. Why should people who have the option of transferring to a server that offers them what they want get to force us to choose between quitting WvW or engaging in a play style we don’t like? The day they introduce server merges for WvW is the day I quit WvW.

The topic of server merges pops up frequently, and I have never, absolutely never, seen a good explanation why a server merge is needed when players still have the ability to transfer servers.

My server isn’t at the bottom currently, but we did spend a few weeks/months there. During that time, there was always someone on the server, and this is coming from someone who primarily plays oceanic hours. We had a small but dedicated group of players who have been around though the highs and lows.

I mainly ran supply or escorted dolyaks or flipped unguarded camps, and while I was alone most of the time, I did have enough enemy and ally encounters to keep things interesting for me, personally I would not call this “dead”.

I’m not built to PvP, so avoiding enemies is generally my goal, and having fewer people around helps with that. When I do come across enemies and am unable to run away, I don’t fight back, and I just go for a bathroom break and return to send my char back to the waypoint

Curious, is it even technically possible to separate a PvE’er from a WvW’er in terms of counting “population”?

I primarily play WvW with a dungeon run once or twice a month. Most days I only play on weekends (and many in my guild do the same), sometimes I find myself too busy to play and might take a break for weeks at a time. There have been times where I log in and roam WvW a few times a month.

Sometimes I’ll go to WvW just to use the portal to Lion’s Gate.

And I often see new players who log in to check out WvW, find it’s not for them and never log back in again.

Kaiser.9873:

I would modify this a bit, but in general I do think that the game needs to eliminate a few servers. I would go ahead and lock the Gold tiers. Then inversely merge tiers 3-8. 8 goes to 3, 7 goes to 4, and 6 goes to 5. With this you have 5 tiers that will(in theory) have similar populations. Of course the determining factor will still be offhours, but you cannot force offhours to split up.

Why? What does this do in the long run? You’re just going to end up with people bandwagoning again.

I get the feeling that people who suggest forced transfers think “Gee whiz, my football team has 90 people, and the other server I’m matched up against has 100 people, so since the chess club has 10 people, if we disband the chess club, I’m sure they’ll really appreciate having more people to hang out with (we’re doing them a favour, they should be thanking us for disbanding that silly little club of theirs!), and we’ll have 100 people to compete with the other football club!” but in reality… “hey, we disbanded the chess club, but only ended up with 95 people, what gives?”… “oh, they would rather join the yoga club than play football with us, didn’t see that coming”, then a year later… “aww man, some of our members left to join the other football team, let’s try disbanding the rugby club next and force them to join us”.

Or… “Ugh, I hate chess, I don’t wanna play chess, but I couldn’t sign up for the football team because I can’t afford the membership fees so I just joined the chess club. Wouldn’t it be a great idea if they disbanded the chess club and let all the members join another club for free!”

The current situation might not be ideal, I know I don’t like being steamrolled or steamrolling. But change for the sake of change is pointless. If you’re going to change something, change it for the better, not for some temporary bandaid solution.

Chaba.5410:

Michael Henninger.7451:

Match manipulation is a no-no.

I’d really like to know what defines match manipulation in a WvW setting.

Seconded.

It seems like a vague thing to say that could mean pretty much anything. Does planning to capture a tower so that you get points count as “manipulating” the match? How about using TeamSpeak to coordinate with other guilds?

Same for “degrading another player’s experience”, I could say that the thief who killed the dolyak I was escorting, followed by killing my character degraded my player experience.

I don’t condone or support spying and think people who spy are jerks that ultimately make matches boring, but I would rather have spies than a vague ill-defined “rule”.

Lurock Turoth.9085:

And if you read what he’s replying to you would see that it specifically says we don’t care that low tier players get stuck in bad matches. The Op asked what I would do to try to balance servers, so I posted the idea allot of high tier players liked.

Oh, it’s absolutely clear that you don’t care about what happens to people in lower tiers.

So why change at all? Do you think you are being benevolent in removing us (players on lower tier servers) from the communities and play style we enjoy and forcing us to either play the way you like or quit WvW, like you’re doing us a favour? I have probably spent hundreds of dollars on gems, most of it spent on buying storage space or miniatures. If I really wanted to play on a T1 server, then I would have transferred long ago.

My point still stand that a server merge by any name would not make much difference to population balance. Bandwagoners are going to bandwagon. You cut the number of servers, eventually the bandwagoners on the bottom servers will migrate to the “winning” server. I imagine that most of the people who complaint about “dead” servers are those who can’t afford to transfer.

Edit: Because a post with no explanation is not worth a new post

Lurock Turoth.9085:

You really don’t read very well do you Roxy?

So, where have I gone wrong? I’ve read and re-read both your post and the post I initially quoted. I read it as suggesting the lower tier servers should be forced to transfer (as opposed to the voluntary transfers that happen now), and some people seem to think that this would result in the homeless players transferring in a way that makes the remaining servers equal? Or that this is a good idea on the basis that there are supposedly more people who would want this to happen? Dream on!

For the record, I don’t think any forced transfer (be it low server to high, or high to low) would have any long term benefit to the community.

choovanski.5462:

^ this. merging/deleting the bottom servers and offering free transfers really is the best option. we have too many servers for the playerbase atm.

No. Just no.

You might as well say “Get rid of sPvP, we have too many game modes for the playerbase!”

Don’t like the way things are on lower servers? Don’t play there then. Transfer to a server that suits your tastes.

The “overstacking” issue is a player created one. No amount of temporary meddling by ArenaNet is going to fix that. I would rather nothing be done, than doing something that makes things worse.

Malediktus.9250:

Anet is a business. Why would I help them being more successful without any form of payment?

For non monetary/material gain?

I was a volunteer GM for a European gaming company for several years until I no longer had the free time to continue. They specifically did not give players any perks in order to attract those who truly cared about helping make the player experience better. I think that was a good strategy. I may not have gained anything material, but I did have a lot of fun and worked with some very nice people.

I have also volunteered for local conventions, and even if they didn’t pay me or give me free/discounted entry, I still would have done it because it was such a great experience. These events usually had hundreds of volunteers, and simply could not happen if they had to pay the volunteers as employees.

On a similar note, one of my work colleagues loves going to live concerts and gets free or discounted entry by volunteering at the concerts of her favourite bands. Yes, this benefits/profits the business/company, but if the person is willing to volunteer, why not?

Now I’m not suggesting everyone should work for free, but those wanting to be paid for this forum specialist role are probably not the type of people Anet want for the role anyway.

People asking for payment or compensation of some sort for being a forum specialist? Really?

I was a volunteer GM for a gaming company based in Europe (although I’m in Australia). When I signed up for the role, I did not expect to be paid anything. The satisfaction of being able to help fellow players and have a part in improving player experience was all the payment I needed. Being able to kick gold spammers off the server during times when other GMs were asleep was a bonus

The fact that I was on a completely different continent didn’t seem to be a problem, they just asked me to sign an NDA and code of conduct.

Having been in a role where you’re the link between players and the game staff/developers, I know the frustration of being ultimately powerless, but having to bear the brunt of players’ anger. I hope whoever takes up the role of WvW forum specialist is prepared with extra thick skin and infinite patience.

Rieselle.5079:

For those who care about server pride, how important is it that you “force” server pride onto others?

How important is it that you beat your wife?

Noone is forcing “server pride” on anyone. Yes, you are required to select a server upon starting the game, but you are not forced to play WvW (there are plenty of things to do in GW2 that are not WvW), and even if you do decide to enter that game mode, you are not required to do anything for the benefit of the server (run around mining ores if you want) or even show loyalty to that server (nothing to stop you from transferring elsewhere).

It seems to me that you’re just trying to define “server pride” as something it is not. To me, server pride means loyalty to one’s server without expecting material benefits.

As for the suggestion itself, it is simply a server merge by another name. And it has been pointed out time and time again that server merges does nothing to resolve the “problem” in the long run, and the effect is no different than what happens now except with the added bonus of kittening off a lot of players for no reason.

I really don’t get why people who prefer PvP come and whine about WvW when there are several purely-PvP game modes to choose from. It would be like people with a preference for PvE asking to have PvP disables in WvW.

Isn’t this essentially what EoTM is? With the only difference being the map you’re on.

And as someone else has already said, this essentially a server merge, and server merges don’t fix anything, at best it temporarily shifts players around against their will, which is no different to what happens now, minus the “against their will” part.

Marmatt.8590:

It will be ‘amended’ by updating features that the general populous have been asking for.

I find this worrying. For every MMORPG I’ve ever played, it is a given that only a tiny fraction of active players read the forum, and an even tinier fraction post on it.

Change should not be done for change’s sake. Especially when that change gives no benefit beyond what already exists.

I’ve mentioned it before, but in my local community, a small group of 7-10 people successfully petitioned the local council to remove some large trees on an empty block of land. These trees are large and provide shade and shelter, not just for the local pedestrians walking on the adjoining path, but for various birdlife. The initial community meeting to discuss this issue was only attended by those who started the petition, thus it succeed and the trees were marked for removal.

It wasn’t until the last minute that the wider community caught wind of this and made a counter-petition to save the trees. Over 200 people living the the area where the trees are located signed this petition, which prompted the council to hold another community meeting, this time more members of the community attended and the trees were saved.

If it had not have been brought to the wider community’s attention, those who were happy with the way things were would have suddenly found that the beloved trees would be irreversibly gone, all because of a few disgruntled residents.

I hope the fact that the forums don’t necessarily represent the wider community is taken into consideration before any irreversible changes are made.

lil devils x.6071:

Being the last people in Kolmanskop refusing to leave doesn’t make Kolmanskop any more desirable. Currently, they resolved the issues with low population servers in pve by kicking people off their servers and forcing them to play with others. You get a timer and if you fail to switch before times up they switch you. People enjoyed this change because it wasn’t fun playing on empty maps. They didn’t give PvE a choice.

I agree, megaservers was great for PvE because it suits that game mode very well. Prior to mega-servers, I sometimes guested to Jade Quarry (because my name translates to Jade, so it’s sort of my second home) to make the most of some of the Living Story events. If things get undesirable in PvE (too laggy, too many mobs, too much player drama), then there are a myriad of maps/locations that I can teleport to to enjoy myself the way I want. But for WvW, server merging makes it all into one homogeneous game mode where if you don’t like it, your only option is to quit. The way things are now, we are free to choose a server that suits our tastes.

With PvE, everyone is on the same “team” so it doesn’t matter what world you represent. But WvW is exactly that, world vs world. It is not just a large scale fight, it is a fight between worlds. If you just want to fight a lot of people with little regard to your world, then perhaps PvP is more your style.

Which reminds me of Cabal Online which has two factions. They had a game mode for a WvW style of battle where at scheduled times of the day, players could join a server instance that served as a waiting room for a large scale battle. Each faction had its own “waiting room”. After a certain period of time, equal numbers from each faction would be teleported to the battleground. If one faction had 20 people waiting, and the other had 10, then 10 from each faction would be teleported to the battle, with higher level players getting priority. Those who missed out would just have to wait for the next scheduled battle.

But I wouldn’t get my hopes up on ArenaNet making a new battle mode that suits the server merge advocates. All I hope is that they don’t make things worse for those of us who enjoy things the way they are.

lil devils x.6071:

Reducing the number of servers means no more empty maps, no more ghost towns no matter what time you log in, it matters not if you play at 4 am or 3pm, everyone will have plenty of people to play with. How that is a bad thing, I don;t know. I thought everyone played Massively multiplayer games to play with massive amounts of people. It isn’t like they can afford to just up and give every single person on the game their own wvw map, we have to share those maps with others too.

As stated before, “ghost towns” is a myth. I play oceanic hours, the time that is typically touted as “deserted”. But that has not been my experience. On the server I play on, there is always enough people around to keep things fun. I have never been on any other server besides the one I started on, so I obviously don’t speak for all servers, but there are plenty of people on these forums who would agree that their server is not deserted.

I remember one instance where I was roaming around home borderlands escorting dolyaks, starting upgrades and flipping camps. I had been roaming all over the map, and would estimate that there were at least 5-10 other defenders wandering around the map, and perhaps another 5 scouting. But then a sizable enemy group took our south west tower and began to treb bay keep from there. With the numbers we had, it was hopeless to try and storm the tower to destroy the treb, and our attempts to build a counter-treb failed. So we waited and watched. Meanwhile, some jerk was spamming map chat, urging us to storm the tower, he got quite aggressive and annoying, pretty much yelling at everyone to get out of the keep and attack the tower, but never made a move himself. He eventually ragequit, or at least that’s what he told everyone in map chat, I could see that he was still logged on and watching for a little while before actually leaving. I hope that guy has since transferred to another server as we don’t need his kind here. It would be a win-win situation, Mr Whinger gets to play the way he wants on a like-minded server, and we get to play the way we want without his whinging.

I don’t see the benefit in forcing those with a different preference in play style to transfer to another server because selfish players want more pawns for their zerg. Seriously, why can’t all the server merge advocates be given free transfers to the populated server of their choice, and leave the rest of us alone to enjoy the dynamics of our “lower” servers.

Noone, absolutely noone, has yet to give a good explanation why a server merge is any better than what already happens now.

Unlike the removal of white swords, a server merge is an irreversible change which only temporarily boosts the number of people you are playing with. It is human nature for players to gravitate towards easy rewards.

But there are many players who play WvW for fun, not for profit or rewards. There are many players who enjoy the challenge of being pitted against servers of varying population and dynamics.

I repeat: all server merge does is unncessarily take away our choice to play in that style, and forces us to a static play style, or quit. I for one will quit WvW if I am forced to transfer against my will.

As for this majority vs minority nonsense. I would estimate that only a small fraction of players actually read the forums, and an even smaller fraction of that participates/posts. And majority is meaningless. If given the choice, I’m sure the majority of citizens would vote to reduce income tax to near zero, which is great for the selfish individuals, temporarily. But in the long run you have destroyed the government’s ability to function and render essential services.

We all paid for the game. We all have the choice to stay or leave our server of choice. There is no good reason why that choice should be taken away from us.

Not going to quote everything that was said.

Re: “event” maps to supplement forced server merges

From what I gather from this suggestion:
- players will be forcibly transferred to one of three servers (face it, you merge once, it sets a precedent where people whine for more merges until you have just three left)
- for the purpose of discussing the suggestion of event overflow maps, let’s ignore the inevitable major problem of players continuing to stack on the “winning” server, and imbalance will occur regardless.
- this overflow/event map will be generated only when all three servers are queued for WvW, meaning if only one or two out of the three servers is queued, then players on those one/two servers will still be forced to queue.
- the overflow map will only allow equal numbers of players from each server on it. The person who suggested this idea says that the map remains open for a set period of time, this implies that if someone leaves the overflow map, it causes an imbalance in numbers on the overflow map, and that anyone not included in the overflow map will be forced to queue anyway.

From what I’ve read, this idea is still riddled with issues with no solution. The most likely outcome is that people will be forced to queue, and those of us who enjoyed our small-scale battles will just quit WvW altogether.

Going back to the “stacking” issue. How do you determine when transfers to a server should stop? There is no reliable way of measuring how many people on a server play WvW. I tend to play a bit of PvE and WvW, depending on my mood, whereas my brother primarily PvEs, but will jump into WvW when his guild does. And both us us have had times where we took several weeks off to play other games. This is why server merge or forced transfers will only be a temporary solution.

Re: the notion that we must merge because “ghost town” servers give players a bad impression.

Firstly, lower servers are not “ghost towns”. I play during oceanic/non-primetime hours, and while there are no large 30+man zergs, there are always people running around doing stuff on my server (which in the past has been ranked anywhere between 9 and 24). And if someone tags up, it’s not hard to get a group of 15-20 going. No tag does not equal ghost town. And as others have said, during NA primetime, even the lowest ranked server occasionally get queued.

Second, people who choose to play MMORPGs tend to know how things normally work, and will usually do their research first before jumping into the game, especially if it is a game you pay for. For example, I follow the Guild Wars 2 thread on a popular Australian technology forum, and we often get people joining the thread to ask how the game is, and what server they should join, being an Australian forum, Sea of Sorrows, Blackgate and Jade Quarry are often given as suggested servers to join. So the risk of someone blindly jumping into GW2 then quitting because they think it’s “dead” is very unlikely.

lil devils x.6071:

Why would you tell them anything different than you tell them now? There are plenty of PC’s that are unable to play GW2 as it is, they do not make game designs around outdated computers.

Just about all games advertise “minimum system requirements”. My PC exceeds the minimum requirements for GW2, but when everything in WvW slows down, I know I am near a large zerg (in which case I move to a borderlands map and leave EBG defence to those who have better performing PCs). No, we don’t expect GW2 to run smoothly on an ancient PC running Windows 95, but anyone who has paid to play GW2 should expect a good experience if they meet the minimum system requirements.

lil devils x.6071:

No, it solves it permanently since there are not as many servers to transfer to, allowing for all servers to be equally populated. If one server is stacked they will be the only server with massive ques in this system, thus if they want to play the game they will move to another server to balance out the ques. You cannot stack one server in this plan due to event maps only appearing when all servers in the matchup being qued. ALL servers will be populated, and with bonus maps appearing on an" as needed" basis, you will never have too many on one server and not enough on another, otherwise the server with the stacked population will not be able to get their guilds on the map to play.

Do you not see the problem with this? I’ve been on the same server since day one so I don’t know how things are on other servers (although my brother plays on Blackgate, usually no queue when he wants to WvW, but then again we play during oceanic hours), but there was a time when these forums were filled with people whining about queues. Some might say EotM was the answer, it was supposed to be a de-facto overflow map, but based on the various threads whining about EotM, this is not an acceptable “solution”.

Even with all the complaining about queues, people still “stacked” on certain servers. Who’s to say that this will not happen, even if you drop the number of servers to 3?

So what happens when all servers are full? Make a new server? Or another EotM? Then what happens when players quit, reducing the population on some servers? Force transfer again? This is why server merge is not a permanent solution. Population goes up and down for various reasons, making any forced transfer a temporary band-aid solution at best.

lil devils x.6071:

Problems temporarily solved:

Fixed that for you.

As long as players can transfer servers, there will always be a population “imbalance”. Forced transfers only kitten off those who did not want to transfer, and ultimately solves nothing in the long run.

Atherakhia.4086:

It does more harm than good keeping the player base fragmented because people see fewer and fewer playing each day and they get more and more bored.

Those bored players have the option of moving to another server. Why punish those who enjoy the current play style on their server?

Tom Gore.4035:

Server Merge would reduce the total amount of servers, which would inevitably lead in more population per realm on average.

Then those who want to play on a high population server should move to one. And if one does not exist (are all full) then choose a fallen bandwagon server and move there en masse.

So the way I see it, server mergers are still nothing but forced transfers that only temporarily benefit those who like playing on crowded servers, and treat everyone else like lesser citizens that don’t matter.

If anything, they should make server transfers free so that those who like the high population play style can bugger off the “lower” servers. Since Anet need to make money somehow, perhaps limit the free transfers to once a month, since populations change over time, people may quit playing WvW, newcomers may step into WvW for the first time, old players might return. Any forced reorganisation of players will only ever be temporary.

If you are one of those who propose a server merge, then answer this:

How would a server merge be any different to what already happens now?

A server merge is essentially a transfer of players from one server to another. Except noone would have a choice in the matter.

The way things are now, you can move to the server of your choice. Yes, there is a fee involved, but it is still your choice to make.

The way things are now, those who are content with the way things are on their server can choose to stay.

All a server merge does is take away our choice, that is ultimately the only difference a server merge would make. And bandwagoners will still flock to the “winning” server, so any population “balance” would only be temporary.

So take your blinkers off before spouting server merge as the panacea of WvW.

When I solo roam, I am not looking for fights because I can’t win 1v1. I run around in gear I pick up, so mostly green and yellow stuff.

Instead, what I aim to do when I roam is to start upgrades at camps and towers, flip unguarded camps, escort dolyaks that do not yet have guards, and flip mercenary camps. And if I run out of things to do, I wander around collecting items, chopping wood or mining ore.

If I see an enemy player, I run. If they attack me, I keep running until I am downed, I don’t fight back at all (although my pet will). I have no hard feelings against those that down me, it’s all part of the game.

How is this a solution? And how is it any different from what already happens now?

Currently, everyone is able to transfer to another server, so if they’re not happy with the way things are on their current server and want to stack on a particular server, then they can bugger off to their server of choice. People who are happy with their server of choice can choose to stay where they are.

I’m not from Kaineng, never have been, but I do play on a lower tier server, and the reality is that some guilds with big egos transfer to our quiet little corner, acting like gods who have come to “save” us, and expecting to be worshipped as such. They eventually leave as quickly as they have arrived, often leaving the server in worse shape than it was before they descended upon us.

With that said, such sentiment is not really a good look for a recruitment post.

I roam, but as a poor ranger who runs around in gear that I picked up from mobs in PvE, I avoid fights because I know that I will lose a 1v1 99.99% of the time (I’ve only won a 1v1 twice ever).

I roam because I want to contribute towards my server. I kill sentries, flip camps, escort dolyaks, refresh siege. Me dying would not contribute to my server, so if I see an enemy on the distant horizon, I run the other way.

If I wanted fights, I’d go PvP.

Server merge solves nothing.

You’re just going to end up with the exact same problems as before, only difference is there are less servers.

If you don’t like the play style on your server, then transfer. Don’t spoil things for those who like their server the way it is.

And those who are already on higher tier servers… I’m disgusted that they still think of lower tier servers as a resource to be plundered to beef up their own numbers. I’ve said it before: this kind of thinking is as stupid as movie studios believing that their sales will go up if illegal downloading did not exist.

It has been said time and time again that server merges ultimately solve nothing.

You know what would solve the problem? Giving free transfers to players who don’t appreciate that some people like the way things are so they can move to a server that better suits their tastes.

Torsailr.8456:

If we can’t click on a player to report them, this might give us a means of calling a GM to the correct time and place.

In MapleStory, they had a feature where you could see a list of the names of every player on the map, and you can click on the name in the list and report them (because bots tended to only stay on the map for a short period of time, not long enough to click on them or note their name).

Perhaps something similar could be implemented to make bot reporting easier. It probably won’t be as easy to implement, given that MapleStory is a 2D MMORPG with on average 2-5 players on any given map (maps are to small to support more than a few players at a time), whereas Guild wars has much larger maps that may have over a hundred players on it. Maybe a feature that allows you to get a list of name of players within a certain radius of you.

Being able to communicate directly with a GM in-game is never going to work for Guild Wars, there are just too many players and a GM would easily be inundated by messages. When I used to be a GM for an MMORPG with a much smaller player base, as soon as players knew I was online, my chat box was flooded with messages. Took me on average 30 mins to address all messages before I could focus on patrolling maps.

Torsailr.8456:

Perhaps a status update every patch/month?

Last month:
512 bugs were stepped on with massive hobnailed boots
…

When I used to be a GM for another MMORPG, we also had many players whinging that the GMs didn’t do anything, and reports like this was something I briefly considered doing as a way to address player feedback. But due to the low number of players, we only got a few reports each week, and of the reports we did get, only a few warranted action. So such a report would make it easy for aggrieved players to deduce whether or not their reports had any action taken.

If this is the case with Guild Wars, then I would imagine that they don’t want to advertise that only 1 person was temp banned this month. But there is another game I know of that does what was suggested: MapleStory. Anyone who has played MS knows that it is absolutely rife with hackers/botters. I haven’t played in years, but I remember they used to release weekly reports on how many accounts were banned for botting, as well as the names of those accounts. Each report typically had hundreds of account names listed as being banned for botting.

But from my experience as a GM, no matter what you do, players are going to whine, and the higher-ups are going to drag their feet on any ideas you pass on to them (I remember submitting a detailed proposal to overhaul the way the official game rules were worded to reduce ambiguity, and it took months to be approved).

As others have said, most games have cheats/hacks. Build a better mouse trap and nature will build a better mouse.

I used to be a GM for a F2P MMORPG, and we would often get reports from players about people hacking. Most players would supply screenshots or Youtube videos which don’t really show much, making it impossible to verify whether any hacking was going on in the images/video supplied, thus no action was taken.

When the images/video provided give a clearer indication that funny business is going on, we were required to issue warnings to the player prior to any banning (the only insta-bannable offences were ones relating to cash shop fraud, go figure). the developers/higher-ups would attempt to observe for themselves the hack in progress so that they can find counter measures.

All in all, it was a very long and tedious process. It may take many months for the developers to implement ways to stop the hacking. As for the player using the hacks, we had to issue a warning first, second warning, 3 day temp ban, 7 day temp ban, 1 month temp ban. Usually never got to the temp ban stage because either the hacker stopped hacking, or the other players can’t be bothered reporting the same guy again and again.

But Guild Wars is not a F2P game and I would imagine they have more staff than those on a F2P MMO, so who knows~

I say free transfers for the annoying whiny players who want to win/playwithmorepeople/notbesteamrolled/dontgiveahootaboutserverpride so that they can gtfo of our cosy little servers with lower populations which we love for its unique play style and the challenges that come with it.

As I’ve said in various incarnations of this thread topic, some of us are actually ok with the way things are on our servers. Yes, things can always be better, but many would agree with me when I say that merging any servers solves nothing in the long run, and at best will only give remaining servers a slight boost in numbers before people bandwagon on a particular server again. I’m sick of other servers treating us lower tier servers as a resource to be plundered.

It’s as stupid as movie studios thinking that eliminating illegal downloads would result in an increase in sales.

When I used to be a GM for a F2P MMORPG, part of my role was to collect suggestions/feedback from players and pass it on to the community manager, whom then passes it further up the chain. Although it is a much ‘smaller’ game than Guild Wars, suggestions often took months to be considered, then many months more to be implemented. The problem seems to be the chain of command, too many people have to review/approve any changes before anything happens. If we were lucky, we would get some sort of feedback trickling back down the chain, but most of the time we heard nothing back.

The mods/devs on the lower rungs of the ladder probably do care, but I’m guessing their hands are tied on some things.

What I love about WvW is the many different play styles available. But some people want to ruin it all by narrowing it down to suit how they want to play with no regard for others.

I am still yet to see any reason why servers should be merged that cannot be solved by allowing the complainers and their friend/guilds to transfer to a server that suits them.

As someone who plays oceanic hours, it tends to be quiet when I play, and I actually like it that way. I roam around flipping empty camps, escort dolyaks, and hop between towers and keeps to build/refresh siege and upgrades. I don’t really have good gear, so I am practically useless in a 1v1 fight, thus being able to roam unhindered is a plus for me.

Come the weekend, I might play during NA primetime, and running around with a larger group is also fun in its own way. But eventually I get sick of flipping objectives and go back to my defending/roaming activities. The server I am on has had its ups and downs. Sometimes we get steamrolled, sometimes we are the ones doing the steamrolling, which keeps things interesting.

If I wanted to be constantly fighting other players in fair and balanced matches, I would go play sPvP.

WvW isn’t perfect, things could be better. But don’t make things worse by implementing ideas that ultimately solve nothing.

Conspiracy theories about double-teaming again… yawn

The simplest answer is usually the correct answer. When choosing between two servers to attack, it makes more sense to attack the weaker one. In this case, EB and FC have independently (keyword: independently) come to the conclusion that SF is the weaker one.

Davey.7029:

People crying about population imbalances are probably just

…too poor to transfer to another server.

And still waiting to hear a good reason why any server should merge. All merging (or alliances, which is just another word for server merge) does is temporarily spread players around while destroying established communities. Then soon after, selfish players who only care about rewards will stack on whatever server/alliance/battlegroup will give them the most reward, meaning the server merge has done nothing and has actually made things worse.

Some people like the play style that happens at lower tiers, some like the play style in higher tiers. Why destroy that for nothing? The way things are now are not perfect, things could be better, but don’t make things worse just because some people can’t afford to transfer to a server that caters to their tastes.

PabbyGaul.9682:

1. DO nothing (lol…mostly suggested by upper-tier servers)

I think it would be better to do nothing than to do something that just makes things worse and fixes nothing in the long term.

From what I’ve seen, the people who are clamouring for server mergers do so because they feel that their server’s losses are due to a lack of numbers (and can’t afford to transfer), so they want to destroy the small tight-knit communities that love playing on the server they are on (regardless of whether they win or lose) and force them to either quit WvW or play in blobs.

The other day, I had great fun defending our towers, despite being outmanned most of the time. We managed to hold off the enemy for quite a long time, with several of us on the ground trying to fight them off, and a few of us on siege backing them up. We eventually lost our tower, but man it was fun! People who only care about winning and don’t give a crap about their server community seem to be deluded into thinking that the poor outnumbered lower tier servers are miserable unorganised neanderthals who dream of becoming like top tier servers.

Dayra.7405:

It like a merge of two schools where classes remain the same (WvW merge) vs a merge of two schools where classes are mixed on order of entrance (mega-server and EotM).

The analogy is incomplete. To me, a server merge is like:

School A (high tier servers) is full of students, sometimes to the point where there are waiting lists for future students. With that many students, there are enough who are interested in playing football (huge zergs), so School A has a football club with many, many members on the team. So many that sometimes not everyone gets a chance to play in a match (map queue).

School B (low tier servers) has fewer kids, they don’t play football because not enough are interested to form a full team. Instead, the kids play a casual game of basketball in small teams of 3 people each side (small group raids) or some other activities (roam solo).

Some kids join School B because their parents heard good things about the low student/teacher ratio, since more teacher attention would give them a better education (less lag). But then some kids complained that they didn’t like playing basketball and wanted to play football, so they transferred to School A.

The football-fanatic kids who were unable to transfer from School B to School A, because their parents couldn’t afford to, kept whining about how all students should have the right to join a football team (“fair fights”) and that the only way to achieve this is for School B to merge with School A, in the misguided notion that more students would give them the inter-school victory they desire. But they fail to realise that in the long run, this with do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to help them win inter-school football matches because the kids that did not want to play football (fight large zerg groups) will simply just not play sport at all (quit WvW), or transfer to another school.

Moral of the story: some of us like the ecosystem that has developed in the lower tiers. Forcing a server merge does little, if anything, for the “population” issues that the I-just-wanna-win brigade want.

I am yet to hear an explanation of what problem a server merge would solve that cannot be solved by giving free transfers to the whiners who want Tier1-style fights so they can move to a server that offers them what they want.