Guild Wars 2

Bellatrixa.3546:

Malediktus.3740:

Even if mystic coins would be 10g each it would be a fair price since they are only needed to get prestige items

Today I learned of a new prestigious item that I didn’t even know I had. Yeah, I can totally see how Mystic Coins are fine /s

Indeed. As a fan of trays and pots, I’m saddened that I can’t make Trays of Roasted Artichokes without paying over the odds.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Bellatrixa.3546:

Malediktus.3740:

Even if mystic coins would be 10g each it would be a fair price since they are only needed to get prestige items

Today I learned of a new prestigious item that I didn’t even know I had. Yeah, I can totally see how Mystic Coins are fine /s

I see you don’t grasp the concept of supply and demand……

Here is only 1 Mango Pie tray on the TP the seller wants 100g but people are only willing to pay 15g the that will never sell. Just saying that could be a remnant from when that recipe was first introduced and the seller never took it down since he would probably lose more gold than it is actually worth from the TP taxes

I see you don’t grasp the problem here…….

Some people in this thread are arguing that MC prices are fine because they are only used for luxury cosmetic items, which is not true. There are hundreds of recipes that are not related to legendary weapons that require MC. MC are not only used for “endgame” cosmetic items, so any argument that relies on that is bogus, and that is all she was trying to point out to @Malediktus

But back to your arguments, I don’t think that incoming supply is sufficient. And this isn’t an issue of whether players should be forced to buy MC off the TP to craft anything or not. But rather this relies on how many MC are needed in recipes (not just legendaries either). Each account, if they login every day will get 20 MC from login rewards. I never see very many MC dailies, so add another 5 on top of that for 25 MC per account that logs on every day per month entering the game.

Now lets just look at all of the weapon recipes that require MC (so not leg armor, no feasts of food, no armor boxes, none of the other recipes that I missed. Just weapons). Almost 90 non legendary weapons require MC to craft. Counting legendaries, that gives us ~120 weapon recipes that require MC. Lets assume that the average # of MC needed per recipe is 75 (should be about this much, but I won’t do the math right now, can do later if you really want me to).

That means that, on average, for each weapon that requires MC, you need 3 months worth of players’ daily logins to craft. And that is a weapon only 1 person will receive. HoT legendaries require 10 months worth of daily players’ login each, not counting the clovers. Think about completionists, or people who are AP hunters.

If someone wants even a third of those skins, they suddenly will require ~40 * 75 = 3000 MC, or 120 months worth of players’ daily logins. 10 years worth of players’ daily logins to craft 1 / 3 of the skins that require MC for a single player to obtain.

Now account for people who are true completionists and will strive to get all of those skins. Account for the sink that leg armor will be. Account for the sink that GH are.

I do not believe that there are enough MC entering the game because of this. There are just too many things that require them, and in large quantities no less.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

Gaile Gray.6029:

I played my little heart out this weekend, even took a day of PTO to get in more Labyrinth time. And given the confusion with the undersea creature, I’m hoping we can all agree to call the Labyrinthine Horror by the name of… ~drum roll~ … Cecil. It… just seems fitting, and players seemed to agree.

I dunno. I’d vote for… Colin. Here’s why:

• People want to blame him for ruining their loot run and dying too often.
• Other people love breaking his defiance and forcing him to stand still for 2 seconds.
• He swings a sword; he swings it again.
• Big grin.

Colin, the Labyrinthine Horror

ANet, between this post and the pancakes suggestion in the other thread, I implore you to hire this man and pay him whatever he asks.

~EW

I agree with you EW except she may take exception to being called a man. Just sayin’…

jheryn.8390:

Gaile Gray.6029:

I played my little heart out this weekend, even took a day of PTO to get in more Labyrinth time. And given the confusion with the undersea creature, I’m hoping we can all agree to call the Labyrinthine Horror by the name of… ~drum roll~ … Cecil. It… just seems fitting, and players seemed to agree.

I called Steve “Cecil” and he knocked me over. He didn’t like it.

Lol xD

Gaile Gray.6029:

Clearly opinions vary! In the game, I got resounding approval for Cecil, particularly since it eliminated the confusion with another beastie. I’m personally not a fan of using the name of someone I know, like Colin, or Steve. However your mileage may vary, and that’s ok.

The fact of the matter is, if I see someone 2 feet taller than me approaching with a roaring chainsaw, I’m likely to call him “Sir.” Or her “Ma’am.”

I think Jon or Peter. Taking a chainsaw to GW2 and then disappearing deep into the Amazon.

I must weigh in here, I am Aggie Se’leraun, Necromancer by trade. Steve and I had a torrid love affair for a short time, but after a time we broke up in a fiery fight of rage and passion. I cursed him to live unhappily ever after. He has stalked me ever since.

**The story behind the story, begins three years ago when my guild mates and I, were in the Labryinth and they noticed the, “Horror” dubbed Steve always triggered by my presence. I know this was a fluke, however they began teasing me. “Aggie tell your boyfriend to go away.” Back then Steve had some nasty habits and often downed a whole group fighting Candy Corn. Each year the story of Aggie and Steve and their bitter battle has grown. Whenever we are running Labryinth, we often cry out “Steve” when he appears. What surprises me this year is to begin to hear others chanting it. I don’t know what caused my guild to pick Steve, honestly I think it made it funny cause it is such a common normal name on such a crazy beast! Halloween Time we hold dear to us, we are often your commanders in labryinth. The legend of Steve shall always live on in our guild. #makeSteveLiveagain

Look…
There are 3 major bosses in the Labyrinth.
Richard the Litch
Colin the Skeleton
and Theodor the King sized Candy corn

However Colin is upset because the Visitors keep calling him Steve.

I don’t inderstand why they keep calling me Steve. Isn’t that the name of some Deep sea beast? I mean look at me! I can’t even Swim!

Colin says…

Richard declare:

These are the rudest visitors we’ve ever encountered. They come to our place, break all our toys, steal all our food, hack faces to our plants, kill us over and over, and now they are trying to change poor Colin’s name. I know the guy since childhood, and I know he has feelings like all of us. They think that just because he is a skeleton they can treat him like dirt?!

Theodor however has a different opinion:

I don’t care how they call Colin. They might want to call him, Steve, Bob or Jack for all I care. The other two don’t realize that these visitors are a blessing to this place. I mean, we spread all our toys and leftover all over the place. The Labyrinth is not gona clean it self. Who do they think is gona clean that mess up?! Not me, I’ll tell you! Letting these “Treasure Hunter” weirdos in can clear this place every season free of charge. Calling Colin names is a small price to pay to make the place livable for another year.

Cristalyan.5728:

Behellagh.1468

First, by check out I mean leave the game.

Sorry for my poor English – I translated this as : check out = to search for. Sorry again.
This means I totally agree with your statement as you wrote it.

The differences are with the way we interpret it.

The subject of this thread is John Smith’s statement that ‘the market will fix itself’. In this case the fix is impossible. The market is regulated by the supply and demand. If the supply for one item is too low, the price is rising, making other players interested in gathering/producing that item – this results in a greater supply then a lower price. This is the mechanism. In the case of MC you cannot influence the supply in such manner to affect the demand – with other words the price. Because the supply is determined by ANet. Despite the statements that they will not interfere in any way with the market for a while, the way the MC are inserted in the game is in fact a very serious interference. It denies the players any way to help the market to “fix itself”.

And I think that considering the MC to be a “loyalty reward” is a nice try to hide your head in sand :-)). The MC is a pressure instrument used by ANet to force the players to pay. Not gold, but RL.

The difference between a cattle and a wild bull is not in the aspect (they look the same) but in attitude. The wild animal will fight for his existence. Even if sometimes the existence is not easy or comfortable. The cattle will wait with a fatalistic attitude the mercy of the master. To decide for it.

In this moment ANet is deciding for us. The decision was that we have enough MC on the market. And even if J.S said that no intervention will take place, in fact ANet is continuously interfering with the MC – by not letting the players to decide when enough MC are on market (by farming it for example until the price will be unattractive).

Thank you.

To iterate further:
The amount of MC in the game (not even in the market) is dictated as 60 per acount THAT LOGS IN EVERY DAY. That means that every existing acount that does not log in daily reduces the 60/month MC insertion by a singificant amount.

In retrospect, if less than 5% of the playerbase logs in daily, the entry of 60 coins in the game is a mirage, a non-existant thing. So lets say the game receives on average 15-20 coins a month per active player. and only 1 or 2 of those coins end up on the trading post, there will be a significant climb in value.

And as a person who will need a lot of these coins, he can not do anything to increase the pool of mystic coins. Ectoplasms can be farmed, T6 leathers can be farmed. Mystic Coins cannot be farmed, its existence is capped at 60 per month per acount giving all existing acounts log in every of the 30 days. Which means the supply can only go DOWN, while the demand keeps increasing

Pshh you try farming hardened leather squares and see how far you get with them. youll have 5 stacks of the thick leather before you get 50 hardened.

EphemeralWallaby.7643:

Behellagh.1468:

How do you break people from hording? That’s the issue. The relatively sudden rise in price encourages hording more than the attractiveness of selling.

You change many of the recipes that require mystic coins to require something else… or make them use less mystic coins. The less in-demand they are, the more will be flogged on the TP.

I suppose I could be considered one of those who hoard mystic coins. But, I don’t do so out of any nefarious scheme to sell them for profit. I hold on to them because at some point I’m going to want to make a weapon skin for a particular look I’ll be going for at that time. I keep the coins I get, and I use them sparingly because I know how easily I could burn through them. They are just too useful to part with.

~EW

Agreed. Mystic Coins would be in a great place if they were only used for Legendary weapons but they aren’t. They are used for hundreds of other recipes.

Almost 90 unique weapon skins not related to legendaries require mystic coins, usually 50+

Feasts of Food recipes require mystic coins

Armor boxes require mystic coins (even though I’m pretty sure no one uses these any more)

Some GH upgrades require mystic coins

Dozens of collections are dependent upon items that require mystic coins to forge

At least 1 rune requires mystic coins to forge

Its just a massive list for how little each player brings into the game. And people hoard them because of how many they need for each recipe, and how many recipes require mystic coins. Some (a lot actually) of those recipes need to be changed to either require fewer mystic coins or to require another item instead

Seera.5916:

Behellagh.1468:

How do you break people from hording? That’s the issue. The relatively sudden rise in price encourages hording more than the attractiveness of selling.

I think we can agree that when Mystic coins were under 2s that they were undervalued partially because there wasn’t an overwhelming demand for them as supply on the TP was over 250K, peaking over 500K. Price drifted up to 15s due to the changes in daily rewards but what spiked it was Wintersday. 2015, there was some recipe that required Mystic Coins for some goodie and that simply drained the TP and nearly doubling the price and draining supply under 100K. A 12-13x increase in price from Jan 1, 2015 to Jan 1, 2016 isn’t a value correction makes everyone sit up and take notice.

Now if ANet introduces a windfall of Mystic Coins, what percentage will actually make it to the TP where it can affect the price? And what John alludes to is that they are seeing there is plenty of mystic coins in the game, it’s just those who have them aren’t selling.

Increased prices could also get those hoarding to sell the mats. If Mystic Coins get over 1.5 g each and are steady there with them appearing to sell decently at that price, I’ll probably dump about half of the stack I sit on (I have 250 Mystic Coins, I sell any that I get currently as I get them).

Unless the hoarders feel that the price will go up more. The price has been fairly steady where it is at now with the coins selling fairly well and yet players are still hoarding.

ArchonWing.9480:

/shrugs

You get mystic coins for logging in; it’s not like leather where you have to farm and be dependent on RNG. Thus getting whatever amount seems inevitable to me. Yea, timegates are lame I guess but how many of those things do you really need? To me they’re just an extra 15 gold every month.

I mean in the span of 3 months, if you did nothing but dailies, you would take in 180 gold, 105 laurels, 60 coins, and a choice between more clovers and laurels. Oh, and I suppose this inevitably benefits newer players more who aren’t ready for legendary as they can stockpile more gold.

It would seem the real issue is the RNG behind things such as mystic clovers.

Right back at you, you can farm leather. Easy, but easy. You cant farm coins. You get a fix supply every months. Not cuts, no extras, 60 coins. There are a LOT of recipes that cost way more than 60 coins. In fact, the mystic clovers are really cheap compared to the average MC inclusive recipe.

ArchonWing.9480:

/shrugs

You get mystic coins for logging in; it’s not like leather where you have to farm and be dependent on RNG. Thus getting whatever amount seems inevitable to me. Yea, timegates are lame I guess but how many of those things do you really need? To me they’re just an extra 15 gold every month.

I mean in the span of 3 months, if you did nothing but dailies, you would take in 180 gold, 105 laurels, 60 coins, and a choice between more clovers and laurels. Oh, and I suppose this inevitably benefits newer players more who aren’t ready for legendary as they can stockpile more gold.

It would seem the real issue is the RNG behind things such as mystic clovers.

The thing is you can reliably farm Mystic Clovers through Pvp and WvW without having to involve RNG or Mystic Coins.

Behellagh.1468:

How do you break people from hording? That’s the issue. The relatively sudden rise in price encourages hording more than the attractiveness of selling.

You change many of the recipes that require mystic coins to require something else… or make them use less mystic coins. The less in-demand they are, the more will be flogged on the TP.

I suppose I could be considered one of those who hoard mystic coins. But, I don’t do so out of any nefarious scheme to sell them for profit. I hold on to them because at some point I’m going to want to make a weapon skin for a particular look I’ll be going for at that time. I keep the coins I get, and I use them sparingly because I know how easily I could burn through them. They are just too useful to part with.

~EW

Plus, the Mystic Coin is one of those special items. People at first don’t see the significance of it, but as it becomes clearer, more and more people want them, and I don’t think they are that easy to find. This item will take a lot longer to balance out, if it ever will.

Danikat.8537:

How is a decision made 17 days ago supposed to have prevented a problem occurring months ago?

I’ve heard some interesting abilities attributed to John Smith but time travel is a new one.

You’re asking the wrong question. You should be asking “How is a decision made 17 days ago supposed to fix a problem occurring months ago?” It’s not. It’s just the latest way John Smith is kittening up the economy some more because he thinks it’s his own personal economic sandbox.

Danikat.8537:

How is a decision made 17 days ago supposed to have prevented a problem occurring months ago?

I’ve heard some interesting abilities attributed to John Smith but time travel is a new one.

The point being:
Months ago the market was crashing. 17 days ago they said; ‘the market is fine, it will fix itself.’
So no trime traveling was involved, it was simply: ‘Oh, there’s been problem for several months now.. naah, it’ll resolve itself’

Danikat.8537:

I’ve heard some interesting abilities attributed to John Smith but time travel is a new one.

The great thing about being a time traveller is that you can keep hopping around removing all the evidence that you are a time traveller. It also helps to have a very generic name so you don’t attract too much attention. Just sayin’….

So sayeth the lord who speaketh, and sayeth the Slaver of Abaddon, who coruppted our marketh, and our customs, and our supplies.

Abaddon is alive and well, and he lives in the marketing department of ANet, proof in the attachement!

As you can see, the last few months the demand has been well over 400% of the supply.

Excuse me while I go prepare the people at Wall Street.

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

This troll post is confusing me greatly for some reason.

No matter if its a Troll Post. Anet will see it and change Horrors to 5 Seconds.

This troll post is confusing me greatly for some reason.

I bet next patch take root will be bestowed a 180 second cool down now…

Being useful without getting nerfed after a Year.

Just give us the Orders skill set from gw1 already. Rangers and Mesmers both demanded party support and got theirs, now we Necros demand ours!

So we know of a potential elite spec with a “sand shroud” and a torch.
What do you want from Scourge?
I want
-a shroud that allows utility usage
-smoke fields and blast finishers
-a new type of utility that helps us escape pressure
-powerful AoE from torch and shroud
-stability
-something other than bleed as a main source of damage
-condi application on shroud skills that lacked it before
-life force generation from torch
-something crazy and awesome that nobody expects

nightwulf.1986:

I see the comparison you are trying to make at the end there and yes, I hear some other players making it too. Although, I don’t think comparing Tangled Depths (open world pve) to Raids is apt. No one really cared about Necros in open world much, it was always in instanced small group content that they got singled out (PVP, Dungeons). However, your implied point about not being meta in Raids anymore takes us back to the question of, should Anet balance for the player driven Meta, against it, or some other option? Was Anet nerfing ice bow 4 and fiery great sword in the dungeon era a good thing or a bad thing? Was nerfing all the charge moves against a wall a good thing or a bad thing? Should Anet adjust skill power around what the maximum potential players find a skill to have or around what power level Anet believes the skill should have? In other words, why not just leave Mark of Horror as is since some players found that what damage it added allowed it compete with other class dps?

I don’t think these questions have answers that are black and white. We’ve been arguing about these philosophical questions of balance since the dungeon era when Necro was highly unpopular and haven’t established anything more than players will continue to make their own rules about how the game should play, and the devs may or may not agree with those ideas.

I understand it is a poor comparison, because what can compare to raids? But if you really did try to consider it… the point I was trying to make was that the Reapers had to learn handle the new monsters of the new maps which were challenging with the way the skills were changed. It wasn’t easier, but it was manageable. Necro did not walk into the map and instantly die with no chance of surviving regardless of player skill. As for the icebow nerf to dungeons? Eles were not left off the roster because of it, so that isn’t a good comparison either. Necros are not playable in raids because unfortunately it was that one skill we got the majority of our dps from.

With Necro lacking a build that parallels any other class, whether it is META or not – they hold back the team. For example, I used to take my thief into raids. The dps did not really compare with ele (META DPS) especially for large hitbox but it was comparable enough that if the team wanted to bring me it was still doable. If you don’t believe me just go look for the comparison charts released post release.

There is no role now that Necro can be compared to. They can not condi, dps, or boon/heal. So, why have it available? Why have Necro available only to learn when you want to do the content they provide it’s not useable?

Before we worry about the philosophical standpoints we would need some concrete information to begin from or else we are just making wild assumptions, and ANET’s only explanation was “Necros are fairing well…”

These are the problems I have with this. Regardless of their reasoning though the fact remains, Necro COULD raid then “balance patch” and now they can not.

Sasori.8642:

I’m seeing a lot of rationalizing of the jaggie nerf, but everyone’s forgetting one huge fact. ArenaNet provided NO explanation for the nerf. In fact, they said necbros were in a good place content-wide and they were just buffing power builds a bit to make those builds viable. Then they nerfed jaggies to kitten. It’s fine to nerf jaggies to kitten, if they provided ANY amount of reason or logic for it. They instead provided reasoning for why it SHOULDN’T have been nerfed and did it anyways. It didn’t make power builds more viable, it made rerolling more viable.

No, we didn’t forget. It was commented on about how dismissive Anet has been with the Necro class. “Your fairing quite well” so…. smashes Necro in the leg with a sledgehammer and now your not! haha!

They are pulling some joker nonsense.

Some are saying it is because of new elite. That doesn’t make sense to me. Then change how skills work when the new elite comes out? But you are totally right… people can take up sides whether ANET did the right thing or not still it comes down to no one knows why and ANET hasn’t said anything other than “Necro has been fairing quite well…”

nightwulf.1986:

We lost consistent summoning of Jagged Horrors when Rise! was changed in beta to shambling horrors on a timer. Sound familiar? The difference then and now is that almost everyone praised the change as good, and sort of glossed over all of the reasons for the change. Lost to time, we are now in a position where people are basically clamoring for Rise! to be changed back. I see people on reddit basically asking for a skill that summons Jagged horrors consistently on a 45-60 second timer. It’s silly to me that there is no memory of balance changes. I still want necros to be strong but I have to agree with another commenter elsewhere that the devs are probably looking forward to the next expansion/elite spec to give Necros another play style at this point instead of trying to make Reaper or base necro on par with Ele or War in terms of damage.

You are not the first I have seen make the reference to rise.

I can not speak for everyone, but I certainly did not forget about Rise. I didn’t have a problem with that change. That was more of an “aww” moment, because it was fun, but not necessary to be viable.

The poor comparison makes me wonder if you or others who have made that statement (while asking “doesn’t anyone remember?”) has stopped to look at the data of what the recent balance patch has done to a necro’s dps in a raid setting.

Try to think about it this way… when they nerfed Rise? I could still go to Tangled Depths and other Hot locations and take part in the content there (the big content at the time.) Such is not the state of Necros after this balance patch.

It’s “a minor bugfix”, duh.

@nightwulf: Pretty sure people are just crying for the change to get reverted because it wasn’t op in a way Rise was (I’m not sure how Rise worked in the beta besides what you mentioned as I got dragged back into the game by a friend few days before HoT was released, so I wasn’t able to participate in any of that, but I assume it gave damage reduction back then too) and, to be honest, I don’t think most people know what else to do. They see the change, they see how hit it hard and their only solution is “revert, it was uncalled for”. That’s partly due to them not having any idea how else to fix the problems caused by this, probably them knowing Anet won’t give us plenty of buffs otherwise and in a way they’re right; even something as cheesy as this did not make us overpowered. If this really caused problems, they could’ve slapped a cap on it as emergency solution (even if it was 5 which still would’ve been bad but much better than what we have now) or simply waited until they have an idea on how to buff us otherwise.

Saying “they’re preparing us for the next spec” is an extremely lazy and unexcuseable thing to say/do. Remember how elite specs were supposed to be sidegrades, providing simply a different style of play? We all know how true that held the first time around, repeating it another time would be straight up insulting. Worst case scenario is that they will, no one is gonna take reaper anymore because scourge will be so much better and then they’ll slowly nerf the new elite specs until the next ones arrive. I really hope this won’t happen.

Do you think people realize that? As a Necro you need to develop an internal timer for the death shroud skills otherwise you waste time and mess up your rotation to go into death shroud only to find your skills are not available (then shroud in general is on cool down.) That’s fine though, it is part of the challenge of the class. We may have “a second health bar” which runs through like water (I admit it can buy a few precious seconds in a pinch) but we lack utility too. It’s a great point you’ve made.

I’m curious… do you think ANET will even wander into our little corner of the forum? They have not treated Necros well. Even their comment of “necros have been fairing quite well” feels so anti-necro. “Necros have been fairing quite well” … so we need to fix that and take away the one real strength you have capitalized on to become a viable part of the game… it’s so dismissive like they never intended Necro to be anything worthwhile. I really have to wonder if anyone will see what is being discussed here whether or not they care to act on it. It’d be nice to at least be heard.