Guild Wars 2

I don’t understand why players who have not reached the cap should not be polled. They won’t be affected in a week? a month? a year? Why should their opinion be discarded?

It makes the whole ‘poll’ seem biased, and not worth the Dev’s attention.

(And, by the way, one can vote in the WvW poll, whether one participates or not.)

Good luck.

Looks like my 3rd choice pegged the forum pouncers to a tee. I knew it would. I don’t even need to read the naysayers because they always say the same thing and have no leg to stand on. You always pew pew with straw man arguments.

For those serious about lifting the cap and trying to be constructive, great.

Getting gold for doing dailies is like giving cocaine to a heroin addict to get him off heroin. Nothing is accomplished and there is no greater reward because the addict will still be stuck in the same place. Why should we get gold for simply logging in and doing 15 min of work. That makes even less sense than giving daily achievement points. Daily achievement points don’t affect the market in any way, giving gold does.

When players have done nearly everything in the game and are no longer able to advance a track that will give them some sense of achievement in the game the game becomes stagnant. Simply giving us gold and shards is like saying “Good boy, now go off to your corner and log in tomorrow. But buy gems too, okay?”

And to the person who pointed out that doing dailies for 10 points cheapens the other achievements has made a good point. I believe you are correct there. Achievements should be worth a ton more. Like finishing all the paths of a certain dungeon should be worth far more than 5pts. Making some of the new HOT specialization weapons should have been worth more, considering all the work you have to do to finish them. Same for Legendaries – tons of work goes into them, but they don’t add up to barely more than a daily completion.

Another way to do this would be to make high level dailies for those at the cap. Instead of the simple list, you get do a successful Dragon Stand all the way to the boss, a Verdant Brink day and night cycle, kill the Chak Gherent, and such harder events all over Tyria and the new zones.

Malediktus.3740:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Malediktus.3740:

You forgot an option in your pull:

- Delete daily achievement points from the game since dailies are not achievements.

Neither are the vast majority of all the other ‘achievements’ in this game.
I’ve seen you state this many times, It’s not going to happen, nor should it.

If we removed AP from every achievement that’s not really an achievement, then getting decent AP rewards would be pretty much impossible.

You are wrong. Look up the definition of achievement, even trivial stuff such as killing ambient creatures can be considered an achievement. Trivial does not neccessarily contradict the meaning of achievement. Mind you I am not against adding (more) harder achievements you can be proud of, I suggested that many times. It is just Anet that chooses to keep adding 95%+ trivial achievements. There is definitely something wrong if Anet releases a living story episode (for more hardcore people this extends to raids, too) and you can complete everything in one evening.

So doing 3 lousy little things for dailys is less of an achievement than visiting the tailor for cultural armor once?
It is actually very easy to smear dirt on most achievements:
*Raids. You got carried.
*Dungeons. You bought all of them.
*Open world: You loitered around, gave a volley with your longobw and got the kill.
*ls2. You got carried. Funnily enough, most people actually were carried to their season 2 reward in my guess.
*Jumping puzzles. You bought a mesmer.
*PvP. You got killed nonstop but captured points. Or people carried you.
*Wvw. You were afking while your castle was attacked and your pet hit an invader in defense.

There are a few of them that show both commitment and are trivial all at once, like every kill 5000 creatures with certain weapon.
Some are just trivial like logging in for a beer that is brought ot you by mail.
Doing adventures is an actual achievement by this standard because nobody can carry you and you can´t buy it if you stay true to the rules of Anet. I don´t know how many of these actually are in the game, maybe 1000 points?

Having said that, the cap is just stupid and people who had to hunt every AP of the list of dailies should probably ask themselves what´s wrong with them instead of asking for a cap to protect them from themselves.

Torolan.5816:

Malediktus.3740:

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Neither are the vast majority of all the other ‘achievements’ in this game.
I’ve seen you state this many times, It’s not going to happen, nor should it.

If we removed AP from every achievement that’s not really an achievement, then getting decent AP rewards would be pretty much impossible.

You are wrong. Look up the definition of achievement, even trivial stuff such as killing ambient creatures can be considered an achievement. Trivial does not necessarily contradict the meaning of achievement. Mind you I am not against adding (more) harder achievements you can be proud of, I suggested that many times. It is just Anet that chooses to keep adding 95%+ trivial achievements. There is definitely something wrong if Anet releases a living story episode (for more hardcore people this extends to raids, too) and you can complete everything in one evening.

So doing 3 lousy little things for dailys is less of an achievement than visiting the tailor for cultural armor once?
It is actually very easy to smear dirt on most achievements:
*Raids. You got carried.
*Dungeons. You bought all of them.
*Open world: You loitered around, gave a volley with your longbow and got the kill.
*ls2. You got carried. Funnily enough, most people actually were carried to their season 2 reward in my guess.
*Jumping puzzles. You bought a mesmer.
*PvP. You got killed nonstop but captured points. Or people carried you.
*Wvw. You were afking while your castle was attacked and your pet hit an invader in defense.

There are a few of them that show both commitment and are trivial all at once, like every kill 5000 creatures with certain weapon.
Some are just trivial like logging in for a beer that is brought to you by mail.
Doing adventures is an actual achievement by this standard because nobody can carry you and you can´t buy it if you stay true to the rules of Anet. I don´t know how many of these actually are in the game, maybe 1000 points?

Having said that, the cap is just stupid and people who had to hunt every AP of the list of dailies should probably ask themselves what´s wrong with them instead of asking for a cap to protect them from themselves.

Whew! Very rightly said.

OriOri.8724:

1 – You feel unrewarded for doing dailies currently because you aren’t getting any more AP. Well I hate to burst your bubble, but the 2 gold and the 3 spirit shards are worth more than the 10 AP you get,

.

Well that is subjective. To YOU the spirit shards and the gold are worth more than achievement points, but for many of us they are not. I have spent lots of gold on achievements (I have crafted three sets of ascended armor, done every crafting discipline, purchased miniatures, etc etc etc). There are special skins (both armor and weapon) for getting achievement chests, and also title recognition. So personally, I don’t agree with you, achievement points are much more dear than gold.

Malediktus.3740:

You forgot an option in your pull:

- Delete daily achievement points from the game since dailies are not achievements.

Neither are the vast majority of all the other ‘achievements’ in this game.
I’ve seen you state this many times, It’s not going to happen, nor should it.

If we removed AP from every achievement that’s not really an achievement, then getting decent AP rewards would be pretty much impossible.

Malediktus.3740:

You forgot an option in your poll:

- Delete daily achievement points from the game since dailies are not achievements.

Don’t forget:

- Delete unattainable points from the game and delete the leaderboards, since leaderboards lead to more whining than is worth putting in work to support them.

While I believe a survey to be an OK idea, and believe the cap should be removed, I fail to see why the OP feels the need to resort to a negative-connotation MMO buzz word.

Malediktus.3740:

You forgot an option in your pull:

- Delete daily achievement points from the game since dailies are not achievements.

Nor are 99.99% of the other tasks that award AP. While some of them may take longer, few if any represent real achievement. All that AP tasks are is a list of things to do in a game genre that survives by giving people things to do.

You can’t just poll people who are already capped about abolishing the cap. That’s like polling prisoners about abolishing prisons…

The cap should be removed, but this topic has been brought up time and time again this year, and anet have ignored it,

I find it ironic they capped the AP because people complained they felt they had to do it, yet now we have a new map with hearts that reset daily, and people now feel they have to complete them, what is the difference, point it anet capped it because some didn’t want to continue doing them, and others cried they couldn’t catch up.

I actually contacted support directly about this topic, the reply I got from them was, they sympathize with players who are capped, but are powerless to intervene as only the Devs can do that, and to continue posting on the forums and or reddit, and hope that a Dev replies, or at least notices it,

Ive already accepted that in 26 days I will hit the cap, and on the 27th I wont be logging in again (yes this is my own choice) unless anet revise it, im done with being blocked/stopped/restricted because others don’t/cant/want to do something, I wont continue to support them in any sense at this point.

@Reydien, if they wanted to uncap the points for Agent of Entropy that would be fine too, they could easily restrict it to +10 points per day, the same as dailies, games like this shouldn’t have caps at all, when you hit a cap you get bored, and then leave, just like me and my friends will do soon, and my friends/ fellow guild members before me.

Since ANeT is doing polls for WvW to see what players actually want, how about a poll to see if the Daily Achievement Cap is really wanted? The poll would only be available to people who have hit the cap and are currently the ones being affected.

Poll Questions:
- Remove Current Daily Achievement Cap and retroactively award daily achievement points withheld from players who have hit the cap.

- Remove Daily Achievement Cap but don’t award withheld daily achievement points from players who have already hit the cap.

- Don’t remove the cap, I’m an elitist and don’t want people to be able to get daily achievement points beyond the current cap.

- Increase the Daily Achievement Cap by 5000 and retroactively award the withheld achievement points to those who have already hit the cap.

- Increase the Daily Achievement Cap by 5000 but don’t award withheld daily achievement points from players who have already hit the cap.

- Don’t count my vote.

I don’t know about the others who have hit the cap, but I’m tired of scrimping and scraping to get a mere 1, 2, or 3 achievement points at a time. The 2 gold a day is nice but I’m beginning to tire of doing things and getting zero reward achievement-wise.

Jeknar.6184:

Jayne.9251:

Those who are dismissing server pride aren’t looking at longterm. You buy the game because it entertains. You stay because of the community.

If people really stayed in certain game because of the community, things like FPS or MOBA (who have extremely toxic communities) would have died long ago.

People stay in the game because they still have fun playing it. Not because of it’s community.

MMOs are social games. FPS and MOBAs are not.

Highlord.7158:

I trust Caithe even less now than I did before. And since I stopped trusting her at all before I even got to Orr, that means it’s in negative values, and she’s required to trust me more to make up for it. She’s completely undermined and compromised, proven to be utterly unreliable, and entirely too arrogant to be of any use to anyone, even herself. Certainly not her own people or anyone else in Tyria.

If I had my way she wouldn’t just be in a cell or under constant guard, she’d be dead.

Now that you mentioned jail, I realize I trust Canach more than I do Caithe. He admits to his misdeeds and at least pays lip service to reforming himself. Caithe claims to want to apologize, but she only admits that she thinks she was right — it’s less of an apology than we’ve seen from many RL public figures.

Mordremoth’s voice only was an issue after he awoke (at end of scarlet story). So it doesn’t apply to the Centaur slaughter.

Murdering people to protect and support those you love is still murder.

But on top of that, she was riding shotgun on a mission to coerce her sister first born (Wynne) into revealing information. Abducting Wynne was just about the first step. The last step was going to be torturing the information out of her.

It has been suggested that Caithe was unaware of that intention, but that would require a level of stupidity that would leave Caithe unfit for doing much at all. Moreover, the end scene where Caithe kills Wynne makes it clear that Caithe was well aware of the violence and cruelty that Faolaine was capable of, so she can’t even claim ignorance.

What gets me is that the writers just never seemed to grasp that slaughtering an entire tribe of peaceful, friendly centaurs because they’re trying to keep you from abducting and torturing information out of your sister, is not little “oops”.

I always see people skipping vets. Maybe this was relevant when loot diminished as you farmed, but right now, it really doesn’t seem worth skipping. It takes less time to kill the vet and get your reward than it does to just skip it and go looking for new doors…especially when you’re going round and round in circles skipping that same door…

you answered your own question I think. people are playing the halloween content while it’s still around (Labyrinth). you can play in SW etc any time, you can only play the halloween stuff now, so people tend to switch what they play when it’s around (from what I’ve seen anyways)

If you see it happening again, take screen shots and submit a report to ANet. Sometimes it’s hard to tell if it’s trolls or if it’s people who don’t understand the mechanic. Although the content is old by MMO standards (> 1 year), it’s new to new players and even some veterans who never bothered with it before.

Minor clarification: Elona is a continent and Kourna is one of the countries in it. So your post is a bit like saying ‘If we go to France and maybe Europe’ – you can’t go to Kourna without going to Elona.

Also I agree that a Varesh legend for revenants would be cool and I know a lot of people want them to bring back scythes (and not just as staff skins), but I recommend not getting your hopes up because we’ve been told absolutely nothing about what the next expansion will include so the chances of this exact elite spec being included are very low.

DeanBB.4268:

You guys are saved. I read this thread, went home yesterday, and sold 500 of my 1800+ MC’s. Problem solved! Not to mention, that 300+ gold helps with my current crafting endeavors.

“Crafting endeavors” or “Crafting Endeavor”? I see what you did there.

DeanBB.4268:

You guys are saved. I read this thread, went home yesterday, and sold 500 of my 1800+ MC’s. Problem solved! Not to mention, that 300+ gold helps with my current crafting endeavors.

You deserve a meme for all the good you just did!

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

I know some people like to trot out the argument that if everyone in the game wanted even 3 legendaries, the regenerating supply would dry up. But it’s moot, because nothing close to “everyone” wants even one legendary, at least, not at the prices and effort they currently required. If everyone in California, USA wanted a new Jaguar, there wouldn’t be enough vehicles to purchase, but … not that many people want one, so it’s moot.

I do think that the regenerating supply of MC is in trouble. We are constantly getting new sinks for them (now that Eureka was released with the new, streamlined 2.0 system we can expect the full set to eventually be released), leg armor, while a small sink since few people have the capital or skill/time to craft it, will still be a new sink. New guilds pop up all the time, and with them new GHs. Not to mention as the game gets older, more players will want to work towards at least 1 legendary. If new sinks are constantly being added and more and more players will constantly work towards a legendary then I do think that the regenerating supply will eventually dry up.

You also need to consider that not everyone logs in every day, for whatever reason. And also that there are a lot of free accounts (which don’t get daily login rewards, and thus are not contributing any MC to the game, but which can still craft legendaries if they want to AFAIK). There is nothing wrong with this of course, but it means that not every player is contributing MC to the game. Which of course means that the ratio I gave earlier (each person wanting 3 legendaries) will actually be substantially less than that before it starts to seriously threaten the regenerative supply of MC (since that analysis didn’t include MC used for GH, feasts of food recipes, or collection skins. It just included leg weapons). Of course with the extremely large surplus that we have it may be a while before that sets in, but eventually it will in my opinion.

Seera.5916:

The problem is there are a lot more being generated than are being consumed. There are players hoarding them, whether for sale when it hits a certain price or future usage is unknown.

If ANet does anything too drastic to the generation or to the demand, they risk the market dropping them to vendor value. ANet has to move slowly to reduce that hoarded supply before they can do anything noticeable to it. There was a bit of a panic sale when they added the Mystic Coin to a drop of one of the events that only calmed down once people realized it was a once per day thing.

I’m not saying that the coins are sitting at the true equilibrium price and that nothing should ever be done. But they also shouldn’t rush into things. Or we’ll end up with the reverse – Mystic Coins worth the same as it would be to be vendor them.

I agree that ANet should not rush into this, and should take their time and move slowly if they decide to address MC. But that doesn’t mean I think that their current policy of hands off is the best policy for the long term supply of MC vs the demand for them.

Rauderi.8706:

6000 candy corn in cost. You get roughly 6 per day. So it’ll pay for itself in 34 months. So.. sometime into the third expansion. XD

Yeah, the numbers are not quite as bad as you say but it’s not really about profits. I just like having loads of nodes in my home instance and it pleases me to harvest seasonal stuff out of season (you should see my stash of Wintersday gifts). It costs 5000 corn and yields between 6 and 12 extra per day compared with the standard node (so between 12 and 24 in total). The numbers make more sense if you pair up with someone to harvest them but it’s still a long payback.

Cristalyan.5728:

Well, it seems that a lot of posters do not read the title of this debate. This is: ‘the market will fix itself’. What means “itself”? It means (in my opinion) – without any external intervention, by the normal flow of resources / no artificial barriers.

Now: “The real failure here is with players that invent their own indicators of what ‘good behaviour’ in the market is” - well, in my opinion this is one indicator of a free market, without external interventions. The players will try “their own indicators” – if the indicators are accurate they will be used by more players. If the indicators are false/bad, they will be abandoned. So, in my opinion, this is not a failure. Is a sign that the players took J.S seriously when he said ANet will not interfere with the market for a while. BTW – if ANet really wants to leave the market to freely evolve, that means the ANet indicators used until now are absolete. So, new indicators should be invented by the players.

“Anet must feel that at this point, for whatever reason, they don’t need to babysit the market anymore, so they aren’t.” - indeed, indeed, indeed. Agree, agree, agree ! Unfortunately, ANet do not agree. And instead of letting the baby to grow, they still interfere in the educational process. Controlling the amount of MC delivered on the game – no matter if MC are enough or not / the supply is greater or lower than the demand – is a contradiction with J.S statement that ANet will not interfere anymore with the market. With other words we can have here 2 possible situations:
1. The statement of J. S was a lie, an attempt to pull the wool over the players eyes, OR
2. The statement was a sincere one but someone else in the game staff decided that this control over MC should be maintained – and this is against what J.S said (and if what he said is not a lie, is against the health of the game economy)

And lastly:
“There is no caveat … MC’s will adjust to the price they should be based on supply and demand

Taking into account that the supply is strictly determined by ANet, that means the MC will adjust the price according to ANet will. This is a perfect example of a “free market, without any external intrusion”

Following this example of a “free market” we can say that the North Korean market is a free one, at least on the same level with the GW2 market.

First the supply was always at the whim of ANet, you never could just go out and farm for MC. The only agency the player had was deciding to do the daily and monthly or not which used up play time. Now the bar is significantly lower as only logging in is required. They only options now is doing the Mystic Forge daily if it’s available and introduced recently the anomaly event but that spawns only once every two hours and is dependent on when you are playing and for how long and if you are free when it does spawn.

I think the issue is a macro versus micro point of view. Now I’m going out on a limb here and suggest that game wide the amount of MC being injected into the game is roughly the amount being consumed by the MF before the change in acquisition method. And from a game wide, 10,000 meter perspective all is well. However from the player’s perspective the amount of MC they are getting is significantly less for the time they play the game. To them it feels like a shortage as if they did every daily and monthly before they got a bit over 600 a year. Now it’s only 260 (plus the optional ones). If someone only played on the weekend but was able to do the monthly before, they were still able to earn 340ish a year, now it’s around 70.

From the average player perspective it went from a nuisance amount where you would sell off excess without a 2nd thought to not even thinking about selling it. Where before selling excess to clean up your personal inventory space wasn’t an issue if the price was stable, it will only cost you around the same amount to get back what you sold, remember there was a glut on the TP which kept the price very low. But a 30-40x increase in TP price in less than two years, nobody will sell any if they think there’s even a chance they may need some in the future. And that positive feedback loop will just exacerbate the situation.

The problem now is that there isn’t a “good” way to let air out of this bubble without bursting it. ANet’s solution is not to be the one with the pin but let the bubble pop on it’s own. Problem is the bubble bursting isn’t going to fix the problem but simply reset the price and the cycle will start all over again.

DoctorDing.5890:

Am I the only person to think that the market is not broken?

“The market” is such a broad term as to be useless. Overall, the trading post is doing an excellent job. The few sticking points happen to be T5/6 leather, mystic coins, and a few other odds and ends that are either vendor trash (sigils/runes and some crafting materials) or stupidly out of reach (ye olde precursor argument and some collection skins).

Leather and coins are getting the focus currently because of limited acquisition and widespread use.

Amaimon.7823:

mauried.5608:

Theres currently 37800 MC for sale on the TP.
Doesnt sound like a shortage of coins to me.

37800/150 = 252 people can craft a legendary weapon at one time if they don’t rely on the meager personal income. I dunno, how big is the player base of GW2 at the moment? and this is just for the legendary weapons. Then there’s guild halls, recipes, mystic weapons etcetc

You can’t judge supply based on just what’s on the TP. There are players holding a ton of coins. One of them even posted a screenshot of an entire inventory full of them awhile back.

Mireles Lore.5942:

When John Smith implied they were going to stop making market adjustments it was open licence to start hording these things for guaranteed profit. These things can only go up in price because they can not be reliably generated outside of a set number per account, per day logged on, while demand is being constantly added.

There is no reason to sell them because nobody can ever produce an excess on their own. As long as you are not hurting for gold, its easy for everyone to deposit what little they get and forget about it.

Just wait until legendary armor rolls around… Price is going to get crazy.

You can say that again,once the legendary armor will be fully released, the MCs will pass 1 gold/each. And then we will see how “the market will fix itself”

When John Smith implied they were going to stop making market adjustments it was open licence to start hording these things for guaranteed profit. These things can only go up in price because they can not be reliably generated outside of a set number per account, per day logged on, while demand is being constantly added.

Yes there are alot of mystic coins entering the market, probably more than being used. This isn’t the only thing that matters. Its the velocity of that supply that is causing an issue. It is so very low because they are spread over the entire active gaming base because they are produced passively in such small mounts the are sitting on everyone’s account not entering the market supply. They won’t move so long as they can not be produced in excess.

There is really very little reason for anyone to sell these. Probably the primary reason a player needs gold is for luxury items. Mystic Coins are used in almost every luxury item, so they are likely not sold for this reason. No player can ever produce these in excess in a reliable way. ArenaNet seems to determined to keep the supply generation passive, they can only increase in value as they add more legendary items. It is to easy for people to deposit them and forget about them.

Just wait until legendary armor rolls around… Price is going to get crazy.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

@OriOri

There more than just Mystic Forge Dailies and daily log in to get mystic Coins they are based on RNG like everything else in game that’s used in recipes, crafting Mystic Clovers can Net you 5 or 50 coins, as well as The Daily Fractal tier Chests provide an Avenue to obtain the coins. These are fine as is.

Yes other items require them but most are prestigious or have exponential value those feast recipes give unlimited food buffs for 5 minutes that is huge just to craft the recipe, it’s not like they are needed to make the actual food, and if you try to use the whole well all kinds of Guild hall upgrades require them then you should factor in that Guilds are normally more than 1 person and you can ask for the coins to be donated.

Anyone whose ever built a guild hall—I should know I’ve built three and a half, knows that when you build one its 1-3 guys(and/or girls) spending their own small fortunes, grinding to death and breaking their backs to build the hall and some intermittent donations from ‘the other guys’ in the guild, not that the other donations aren’t greatly appreciated and very much needed (VERY) but if you knew anything— guild halls are carried by their creators/builders. It’s not as simple as asking someone to donate a bunch of almost an 1g item that you need almost 1500 of to complete all the upgrades in the guild.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

OriOri.8724:

That doesn’t address the issue that there just aren’t enough MC entering the game to make these items feasible for more players to craft. I’m not saying the items should be cheap, but the current amount of MC needed for crafting is way too high compared to how few enter the game (and you cannot farm more of them). Best solution is to just lower the amount of recipes that need mystic coins, and reduce the number of mystic coins needed in non legendary related recipes (excluding those few skins that are supposed to cost thousands of gold, like that bat shoulder one from halloween).

I mean seriously, just to craft all of the non legendary weapons that require MC would take 4,340 MC. That is more than 173 months worth of players’ daily logins assuming 25 coins per month (which ~5 MC forge dailies a month), and still requires more than 144 months worth of players’ daily logins if you assume 30 coins per month per player. Either way that is over 12 years of players’ daily logins worth to get non legendary weapons for a single player. Note that this is just weapons, no feasts of food recipes, no GH upgrades, no legendary weapons. And it still requires this much players’ daily logins worth of MC. How can you justify that this is balanced? I mean the game has only been out for 4 years.

There are 26 legendary weapons in the game currently, and there are multiple people in the game with all 26 skins (Not sure how many because GW2 efficiency account crawling is offline right now due to a problem with APIs). For every player that has each of those skins, even if we assume that 1/3 of the mystic clovers in total (which is an absurdly high amount at 668) were obtained through chests of loyalty and PvP/WvW rewards, that still means that these weapons would require 1334 Mystic Clovers to be forged from MC, which would require ~4,002 MC for the clovers, and an additional 1,250 for the 5 HoT legendaries. Which would require 5252 MC to forge these 26 weapons. That is 210 months worth of players’ daily logins assuming 25 MC per player, 17.5+ years worth of players’ daily logins were required for each person who has all of the legendary skins. This insane ratio is just not sustainable. Especially when you stop and realize that these are only some of the uses for MC. They are also used extensively in feasts of food recipes and GH upgrades. How can you honestly believe that enough are entering the game to satisfy all of the uses for MC? I just don’t buy it.

Again, this isn’t an argument against high price on MC, this is an argument about the disconnect between how many are generated/coming into the game and how many are required for crafting. I only looked at weapon recipes. MC are just required for far too many recipes and in far too high of quantities. Anet needs to address this, or show numbers that prove this wrong (such numbers would include, but not be limited to, how many people have X skins that require MC to craft, how many people have Y legendary skins, how many players plan on getting skins that require MC and how many do they plan on getting?). And this will just get worse when leg armor is finally finished and released. There is a huge disconnect with MC, and simply letting the market go to kitten will not fix this because it won’t solve the problem of far too many are required for crafting considering their timegated nature.

One yes you can Farm them you have a chance on Mystic Clover crafting to get either 5 or 50 respectively from 1 or 10 Mystic Coin it is RNG just like trying to farm hardened leather… is it efficient no but you can farm them.

You can’t farm them. This isn’t a matter of not being efficient or not, its a matter of you use them up in your proposed method of “farming” them. You aren’t guaranteed to get 50 MC back when you throw 10 in the forge. If you don’t get that result back at least once every 5 tries you are actively taking MC out of the economy, that’s not farming them. That is destroying them.

Lets do some more math here. You have about a 30% chance at getting mystic clovers out of that recipe, and if you don’t get mystic clovers, you have a pool of 8 possible rewards. Only 1 of them contains mystic coins. Statistically you will always lose mystic coins in the long run if you rely on this method to “farm” them. This is just a desperate attempt to pretend like there isn’t a disconnect between how many enter the game and how many are needed. I gave you the math, if you want to refute it then come with real arguments and numbers.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

One yes you can Farm them you have a chance on Mystic Clover crafting to get either 5 or 50 respectively from 1 or 10 Mystic Coin it is RNG just like trying to farm hardened leather… is it efficient no but you can farm them.

Have you actually looked at any drop rate research to back your fallacy up? The “toilet” will consume, on average, more coins than it will produce with lucky rolls. That is not a farm, that is a sink.