Guild Wars 2

GW2 is not the same as GW1. It’s more complicated so will take many more resources than its predecessor. And all this for minimal mprovements.

You also need to realize that not all games are designed the same. When games have upgraded to a higher DX version, have they all received the EXACT same percentage boost in performance? No, they did not as evidenced by the numerous benchmarks in the past. What may boost performance greatly in one game may barely do so in another. It comes down to how it was designed (remember that GW2 is CPU intensive). And as the dev stated in the Reddit thread, going to DX12 will provide minimal improvements as the issue people are experience resides outside of the render thread.

The dev is an expert in their field with years of experience. They do not need to cite a source and especially since they were talking about GW2 specifically which there will not be a source for. Well not unless they released the source code but good luck with that.

JediYoda.1275:

Listen I didn’t make up anything, just more of your spin tactics, Did the Dev post any benchmarks to back up any of their claims? Nope, not one benchmark posted to compare the performance difference between DX 9 to DX12 on gw2 engine. One last time no one will truly know how it will perfume till they try it, till then talk is cheap without bench marks to back any of it up.

You don’t need to test properly a thing to know if the upgrade is worth or not. As long as you know how the overall system works and if that area if a bottleneck or not, you can predict the behavior.
You’re asking how better a 6700k would be over a 2600k in a system paired with a 8800 gt playing at 1440p…

Btw, that isn’t “just” a dev, but more a lead programmer engineer.

JediYoda.1275:

Ayrilana.1396:

JediYoda.1275:

Ayrilana.1396:

It’s not about people being against it. It’s that it will not have as much of an impact as some people here are claiming and not worth the resources when there’s many more important issues to resolve.

Give us proof of your unsubstantiated claim and don’t post/refer to Dev’s comment on Reddit, I want some real proof.

Also DX 12 isn’t just about performance increase, it offers bug fixes, tweaks that enables the Dev’s to do more ticks, lower power consumption, more efficient cleaner code, higher draw calls, use more of our hardware etc etc.

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/archive/2014/03/20/directx-12.aspx
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/archive/2014/08/13/directx-12-high-performance-and-high-power-savings.aspx
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/archive/2014/03/20/directx-12.aspx
http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2014/03/20/directx-12/

Truth is the Dev’s nor any of us here on the forums knows exactly how much better GW2 would perform with DX12 until Anet adds it. Like others have in other DX12 threads when other games upgrade to newer DX versions there was an performance increase to said game/s.

From someone with knowledge about the game engine and what it can and can’t do.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3ajnso/bad_optimalization_in_gw2/csdnn3n

You can link all of the developer’s blogs about what DX12 can do but have we see it actually out to the test? I don’t recall any games currently using DX12. You also need to remember that not all games are built the same so while other games may experience reported improvements, others may not.

HAHAHA huge fail and nice try with your spin once again and ignoring what one says. Like I asked give me some real prove and not what some Dev said on Reddit. Even the said Dev truly doesn’t know how it will perform until they add it also DX 12 removes some of those bottleneck’s he is talking about.

It is evidence as the dev is one in a position to know the GW2 engine. They know it’s structure and what the issues are as they stated in their post. You also claim that same dev also said in the post that they wouldn’t know how it will perform until they add it. I don’t see that so did you make it up?

Edit: Grammar

JediYoda.1275:

Ayrilana.1396:

It’s not about people being against it. It’s that it will not have as much of an impact as some people here are claiming and not worth the resources when there’s many more important issues to resolve.

Give us proof of your unsubstantiated claim and don’t post/refer to Dev’s comment on Reddit, I want some real proof.

Also DX 12 isn’t just about performance increase, it offers bug fixes, tweaks that enables the Dev’s to do more ticks, lower power consumption, more efficient cleaner code, higher draw calls, use more of our hardware etc etc.

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/archive/2014/03/20/directx-12.aspx
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/archive/2014/08/13/directx-12-high-performance-and-high-power-savings.aspx
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/directx/archive/2014/03/20/directx-12.aspx
http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2014/03/20/directx-12/

Truth is the Dev’s nor any of us here on the forums knows exactly how much better GW2 would perform with DX12 until Anet adds it. Like others have in other DX12 threads when other games upgrade to newer DX versions there was an performance increase to said game/s.

From someone with knowledge about the game engine and what it can and can’t do.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3ajnso/bad_optimalization_in_gw2/csdnn3n

You can link all of the developer’s blogs about what DX12 can do but have we see it actually out to the test? I don’t recall any games currently using DX12. You also need to remember that not all games are built the same so while other games may experience reported improvements, others may not.

God no.

My old piece of kitten rig runs this game smooth as silk. My GPU doesn’t even know DX12 exists. Shhhhhh.

Seriously though if you want a DX11+ game don’t play one that was released over 3 years ago.

Ayrilana.1396:

Edit: Direct link to article failed. Try this.

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/14853-eric-flannum-and-john-peters-answers-your-questions-gamereactor/

The two that were interviewed were specifically talking about themselves and not Anet as a whole.

I didn’t catch this yesterday but yes they did specifically talked about Anet as a whole and its pretty clear in the interview.

Q. Will Guild Wars 2 support DirectX 11, either by publication or by a later update? .

A. I’m not quite sure, it is not within any of our disciplines. We do not require DirectX 11 to run the game – we try to keep the system relatively low.

Also DX is backwards compatible and no reason why they can’t list DX9/10/11/12 in the requirements.

Ansau.7326:

Are we discussing this again?
Real issues are more related to the game engine. This is a mmo, and there’s a huge amount of cpu calculations, which have nothing to do with graphics, aka the api is irrelevant here.
Dx12 and Vulkan cpu improvements are related to the graphic rendering managed in the cpu , but cannot do anything to the game engine stuff that is rendered solely in the cpu.

Btw, Gw2 can use multiple cores. What it can’t do is to take advantage of multithreading rendering (a gw2 thread can only be executed by 1 cpu thread).

this needs repeating.

papry.8096:

Falanu.4289:

“We want dx12!” – That’s a “we minus me”.

Make it two.

Make it three. DX12 is restricted to Win 10 as far as I know (sorry if this is wrong, it was the last I heard about it) and no, thanks, I don’t want Win 10 for now.

Also, yeah having the most up-to-date and shinny stuff always seems to be great, but have any of you defending GW2 upgraded to DX12 considered everything involved? Are any of you a programmer or game developer? As others stated here such “upgrade” would require a lot of effort and rewriting the game engine from ground up, in this case it would be a lot easier to come with a GW3 then rewriting a whole 3 year worth of content game. Have you even pondered how much work is it?

Just a thing: the newest isn’t always the best.

How would it solve the 32bits limitation issue? What about those with still 2 cores processor (yes they still exist)? Would it make any difference for them?

It’s easy to demand stuff without thinking on the whole stuff involved and what or who is affected. Like “I want it, if others will have trouble it’s their business, I don’t care”. I want chocolate too, I don’t care about DX12 :P

Falanu.4289:

“We want dx12!” – That’s a “we minus me”.

Make it two.

They can sell more copies of the game with dx9. However considering the hardware requirements slowly creeping up, it’s not far fetched to redo the engine one day as dx12. But to be honest, I bet we’d more than likely have Guild Wars 3 before ever being faced with a dx12 update for GW2.

That ol noob.7083:

If ANET were to rewrite gw2 in dx12, we would see massive performance gains! Why confine the game to a single core when we can use all the cores? Dx12 has massive gains over dx11, imagine what the gain over dx9 would be

Too bad the reality doesnt work like that.

Multi-core optimization for GW2 has little to do with DX11 or 12. Just slapping DX12 on it would accomplish very little. Like driving a Volvo 240 at 50mph and claiming that if you swap it to a Koenigsegg at 50mph, its now faster than 50mph. No.

JediYoda.1275:

Dreamslayer.7659:

I think it’s very presumptuous of everyone to constantly say GW2 is “poorly optimized”.

Maybe it is, maybe it isn’t, but what evidence do we have?

From my observations, I think the network is the real bottleneck – the game has no trouble rendering large numbers of entities, but the network traffic for 70 people to play together is kind of insane.

Maybe a graphics overhaul would make sense in 4-5 more years, but not at this point.

Well one could argue that the out of memory issues that plagued the 32 bit client is poorly optimized to handle 32 bit client memory restrictions. 64 Bit client is just a band aid fix/workaround to the out of memory issue that they haven’t been able to fix for over 3 years.

32 bit systems can only address 4GB of RAM and if you need more than that, you have to use all sorts of tricks. Don’t blame Anet, blame binary.

not many people will undertake such a task as it is far from easy. as they basically got redo a lot of stuff.

And they already stated on Reddit a while backwhy dx12 wont give the game the big boost ppl believe it would.

Well right now they seem to be going in the opposite direction with all the visual nerfs but either way I think you underestimate the effort required to rewrite the game for another graphical API.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Posting on any venue is something the Devs do voluntarily. Except for a select few whose job it is to post, I would assume.

It might encourage those volunteers to post more often, if there was less complaining about where they do post. Just sayin’…

I don’t use Reddit, no idea how it works. But, seems that most important Dev interactions eventually make their way here. Same with Twitter and Facebook.

ArenaNet doesn’t force their employees to share on social media; it may seem a bit much to those that do volunteer to have to post their thoughts/feedback/answers on multiple platforms.

That’s not how the world works, you don’t neglect your customer base because you feel that they are “complaining too much”, a good business does the exact opposite and responds to their customers.

If employees of a company don’t have the social or communication skills to respond to their customer base no matter what state they are in, then that company has lots of problems that need to be fixed.

You don’t ignore your official communication with your customers and go do PR on a 3rd party source hoping you don’t have to deal with unhappy customers.

Customers give a business money, it’s the business job to make sure their customers are happy, that’s common sense.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

I still think it’s useful information to have posted somewhere on the official forum.

Absolutely. It astounds me that ANet will post stuff on twitter and not here or on Reddit and not Facebook. It’s not all that hard to automate the process of cross-posting. There’s nothing wrong about using multiple channels to communicate, but it seems like even a C-student in Social Media 101 would choose to coordinate the message(s).

edit: grammar

I think it’s actually quite bad practice to be posting on Reddit rather than here.

(Actually much of my content is gated behind gated failed “adventures” !)

I don’t understand what their economist is thinking. I understand wanting to tweak the economy but he really needs to put more thought into things. Any tweaking needs to be done in a way that avoids losing customers.

You see, in Real Life™, as long as I am alive, I am forced to participate in the Real Life™ economy. I have to have a job, I have to pay taxes, I have to eat, and I have to live somewhere. But in a video game, I can just disengage completely when “The Great Recession” hits. Saying there will be “tough times”(*) is the wrong approach. Tweaking the economy so “times aren’t so tough” while still getting to the end goal is what’s called for.

(*) https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns-economy/

Hot is not the scapegoat for toxic mapchat. Ever kill a champ out of turn in old Queensdale? You would think you were drowning kittens.

No, I must disagree. Toxic is whenever and where ever bad mannered players reside that think your negatively impeding their progress. It’s not new in GW2 and it’s not simply a result of more challenging HoT content; it was also a result of absolutely mind-numbing scrub content in core GW2 too. It’s not even indicative of the population in general in the game. It just takes one or two.

Bottomline is that if toxic mapchat is a problem for you, GL finding ANY online game where you play with others you will not have this problem.

Manasa Devi.7958:

I mentioned it before somewhere.

The original Guild Wars gives a warning when you’ve played for 2 hours straight.

Now, in HoT, 2 hours straight is the bare minimum for full participation in a meta event cycle.

It boggles the mind that these were produced by the same company.

What I love is that they broke up Fractals on the rationale that the former structure required too much time investment and that wasn’t okay. Then they throw out the two hour long meta-event cycles. Why does it feel like Anet’s development team is never on the same page?

I mentioned it before somewhere.

The original Guild Wars gives a warning when you’ve played for 2 hours straight.

Now, in HoT, 2 hours straight is the bare minimum for full participation in a meta event cycle.

It boggles the mind that these were produced by the same company.

IndigoSundown.5419:

eldrin.6471:

So what about the best in slot promise made within mins of the no new tiers promise. i take it in your anet suck up deluded mind that legendary is not best in slot gear ether. absurd.

Of course it’s best in slot. So is Ascended. The Defense ratings and the stats are the same.

Today. However Legendary is promised to be the best tier tomorrow, while ascended isn’t.

IndigoSundown.5419:

And in case you don’t know, Gear Tier is a term specific to MMO’s. It specifically means sets of gear with higher stats than the older sets.

Yes …in other MMOs. In gw2, Legendary is a higher tier than ascended, even if the stats are currently the same.

IndigoSundown.5419:

When ANet promised no new gear tier, they meant no new gear with higher stats, not no Legendary items valued for their skins. They also said no level cap increase, which has the same effect — making one’s current stats obsolete.

Agreed. Additionally, Anet actually never promised anything like that for the whole future of the game – just for their closest expansion (HoT). Technically Raids were introduced after HoT, so they wouldn’t be bound by this promise anyway.

Still, gating a whole gear tier beyond a content designed for a small minority was a really bad decision.

And eldrin as far as you feeling gated from content (legendary armor tied to raids) due to medical issues (I am aware of the issues you are mentioning, from your other posts) you are still more then able to aquire said gear… if your guilds won’t take due to your limitations you can always pug raids to get practice to get better to run with your guilds, or even beat it with pugs, if are 100% unable to overcome the challenge raids are giving you (ie can’t get mechanics down due to personal reasons) wait a bit and Guilds will sell raid boss kills…. I have 100% zero doubt that will be happening soon, it’s just like Arah at launch…. organized groups could barely get thorough it in a timely manner, now 1 guy can solo it and sell 4 spots to ppl who have trouble with it. Same will happen with raids where really good guilds will sell raid spots for gold.

So they hardly lied to you or are keeping content from you.

But all ANET did was give the players what they were asking for. Look through the old forums posts…

people asked for raids or harder 10 man dungeons,

people were asking for challenging content that wasn’t as face roll easy as old tyria maps (which the new content is only a little harder ie more punishing for not paying attention to mobs abilities or surroundings)

people asked for new wvw maps and new mechanics to go with them

People asked for pvp leader boards and tournaments / leagues.

They asked for new ways to play there classes…..

So I’m not sure how ANET lied… or didn’t deliver every single thing these forums were begging for since 2013. ANET originally stated they would never do expansions in a interview and the forums exploded saying GW2 was more than worthy for expansion like the orginal guildwars… I mean what did yall want if not everything you asked for and they delivered….

£3000. Rofl. Just Rofl.
And what does disability have to do with anything?

Keepin’ it real or makin’ it up?

You are the one that said that you think you should get high prestige items because you throw money at the game. The whole point of a prestige item is that you cannot get it easily and that it is rewarded for work. Getting around that with money would destroy the whole idea behind it. Even Anet admitted allowing old legendaries and precursors to be boe was a huge mistake and they said they will rectify this with all future legendaries. They will not be boe ever again.

Just because you chose to sink tons of money into this game does not mean you deserve everything in the game. Certain rewards require you complete certain content. If you want the new legendary back piece you need to do pvp. If you want that teq weapon you need to do tequatl. If you want the new legendary armors you need to raid. Now who knows, maybe they will come up with a legendary armor collection that does not require raiding. But if they do it won’t be the same as the one the raiders get, it would probably have a different skin. For now though, if you want that armor you need to get your kitten in raids.

You think just because you throw money at a game you deserve everything in it? This isn’t a Chinese MMO. You do have to earn certain things.

You want legendary, you need to earn it. That’s the way legendary should be. It’s a prestige item.

Cyninja.2954:

Ashen.2907:

Did HoT change the community or did it shine a spotlight on an unpleasant truth that, perhaps, it was never really any better than other MMO communities? Removing a mask isn’t changing anything, just showing tge true face.

If by “truth” you mean that people react differently after 3 years, well that’s a very long facade to keep up appearances.

Maybe the simpler solution might be in order:

Current events are more selfish and the timegates and limited access to rewards makes people less social. Doesn’t mean the community as such is worse, just that the event design leads to unpleasant behavior.

Nope. I mean that perhaps the behavior has been there all along, but now, with players compressed into a smaller space in game, it is more noticable. Perhaps there isn’t more of the behavior described by the OP, just greater visibility of what has always been there.