I’m sorry but I found you post to be extremely condescending, if you’ve been watching people for this long, as you say you have, how could you ever come to this conclusion? Have you ever been under a great deal of stress? Would you define the actions you took and the words you spoke to be an honest representation of your personality? Judging people based on their behaviour during an activity that may be stressful for them and concluding this is who they really are doesn’t seem very fair to me. Also you need to take into account that this is a mass of people, and whenever people congregate in masses they behave differently than they would in situations where there would be less (or no) people. Plenty of real world examples for this.
By this logic, the surivors of the Andes plane crash, who resorted to cannibalism to stay alive, would by your definition, be truly cannibals and where hiding this all along.
:/
What people do under stress shows who they really are so long as you define who people really are according to how they act under stress. Reasoning on a Möbius strip.
I’m more curious why he wants to tell us that he spends a lot of time ‘watching’ people and has an interest in things they usually hide, but reveal under stress. Maybe his second favourite pastime is catching spies.
I think the biggest problem EU faces is that if you’re in an overflow, you’re screwed. Last one I was in had a guy advertising a German only VoIP and the French flat out refused to speak English in map chat so everyone could communicate. Nevermind that a lot of our EU players can’t speak English, they stick to their own guilds in order to have a translator for most situations but are suddenly thrown into an overflow separate from their fellows and as such are completely lost.
You can imagine how volatile a mix of various nationalities can be. EU overflows are scary.
I also like to watch how people behave during times of stress, by doing so you can tell who a person really is. It’s a proven fact that under stress your real self, the one that most people try to hide comes out to shine.
While I don’t disagree with your post per se, this quote is absolute nonsense, people are in fact NOT “themselves” under stress.
As stress hormones cause increased blood pressure, heart rate, and quicker breathing , people act more impulsively, and quite in fact are NOT “themselves”. Watching people who aren’t under stress who are making decisions rationally based on evidence and their own experience is what you can conclude is who the person “really is”.
Electrique – 80 Engineer/Gaiscioch/Sanctum of Rall
A little competitive angst isn’t necessarily a bad thing. It shows that people do care about succeeding and are putting a lot of effort in. Eventually the problems will work themselves out as people will get tired of failing and start working together.
[CDS] Caedas
Sanctum of Rall
I welcome this update regardless of how much failing at anything disappoints me. It breaks people out of their comfort zone which is something that needs to be done.
Lets say only 5 people show up (Which DOES happen early at the morning on low pop servers) Tequatl is impossible. It doesn’t matter if it scales, because you NEED the cannons.
If you only have 5 people there, then you can’t kill it. It’s as simple as that.
If there aren’t enough people, you can’t kill it. If the people there aren’t organized, you can’t kill it. If everyone wants to walk up to Teq and autoattack, then wait for a res, you won’t kill it.
I fail to see the problem here.
[OHai] – Northern Shiverpeaks
And the Tequatl encounter right after that victory got to 85%. I don’t find sitting for an hour and half on a map to be fun just to avoid being in overflow for the one time a day this gets completed. For Yak’s Bend this is a 4 hours population window where you have to stay on one map.
Anybody for starting a Sparkfly Fen champion farm?
I can see this going the way of the Karka Queen pretty soon. I thikn most people guesting know this, so they are guesting to good organized servers so that that can have a chance before it gets abandoned.
“…let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we shall die;.”
All that needs to happen is to have Tequatl scale down for smaller numbers of players.
Super Adventure Vince
Allow me to clear this up. 
1. The meta will be available for 2 weeks.
2. The Tequat’l fight is permanent content; Rox and the dragon clue hunts will go away after 2 weeks.
3. “Boss Week” is a Shark Week joke.
I think Daecollo is on the right path – but with the wrong approach.
I will agree to this much – this event needs better rewards.
After you get the achievements there’s really no incentive to go back there. Most people interested in having ascended gear will probably craft it in a month or so – and then – why bother to kill it?
The chance for an ascended weapon is already very low.
Some might say – do it for the challenge – but that means once – twice , maybe more if you want all the achievements but that still means that once you’ve done it a few times there’s little to no reason to go back.
Why go back ? Is it fun ?
I would say ( although this is a personal opinion) no. I think there’s too much external influence on the outcome of the event by having so many players there. The potential for trolling is huge.
The frustration from failing because of people who won’t listen/bads is even worse.
Is it profitable? No. You’re better off using those 15 minutes to farm champs/ do a dungeon – that’ll get you more loot so that you can actually craft your ascended weapon.
Is it hard? Yes. Needlessly so. And overflows make it even worse.
So what will happen is – in a month ( maybe a few weeks) it will be deserted.
So – a solution you ask ? The solution is right there!
A token system- put one in place.
10 Tet wins = 1 ascended weapon. Simple as that.
People would have a reason to do it – and it would be a nice alternative to those who don’t want to bother to craft. Will they do it? No. Why? I don’t know.
^it doesnt cost way too much. ascended was introduced because exotic was too easy to get
Exotics were exactly as hard to get as original design warranted (casuals being able to get them as soon as they get to level 80).
…well, maybe they were even a bit harder than original design warranted.
Besides, there is a difference between somewhat harder to get, and much, much, much, much harder to get. Anet is simply very bad at finetuning, they tend to use the bigger hammer approach and overshoot their target by a mile. This happened to ascended. This (again) happened to Teq now.
Yes, Ascended cost way too much.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Have you ever played a game like Lineage 2 with big open world bosses (Antharas, Baium, Lilith)? Those required alliances of guilds to take down, aka hundreds of organized players. Tequatl is like these bosses. He’s not content designed to be facerolled.
Do you honestly think the people who have killed him before are going through the trouble to forge alliances, coordinate dozens of players from various guilds, to take on a 15min bossfight that might very well still fail.
Just for a regular boss chest, with a very small chance of a reskinned ascended weapon? Yeah, im thinking, nope.
And im willing to bet those big world bosses from LA2 did infact drop some pretty big-deal items. Am i wrong?Antharas/Baium etc dropped boss-specific jewelry items which were considered among the best items in the game. I absolutely support increasing the rewards for Tequatl INSTEAD of nerfing him, but I do think the OP’s suggested rewards are excessive.
They really just want the mob nerfed so its easy-mode. Something is gonna give and I fear they are just going to nerf it.
Nobody is going to bother forming a raid for a 0.005% chance of good loot.
They will kill it once for achievement, then never do it again.
https://twitter.com/TalathionEQ2
(edited by Daecollo.9578)
Have you ever played a game like Lineage 2 with big open world bosses (Antharas, Baium, Lilith)? Those required alliances of guilds to take down, aka hundreds of organized players. Tequatl is like these bosses. He’s not content designed to be facerolled.
Do you honestly think the people who have killed him before are going through the trouble to forge alliances, coordinate dozens of players from various guilds, to take on a 15min bossfight that might very well still fail.
Just for a regular boss chest, with a very small chance of a reskinned ascended weapon? Yeah, im thinking, nope.
And im willing to bet those big world bosses from LA2 did infact drop some pretty big-deal items. Am i wrong?
You also have to consider that many people have up to 5 level 80s. It will not invalidate crafting.
Also note that if your server isn’t up to par for Tequatl, crafting will still be your main source for Ascended gear. It’s a win/win scenario. Elites will have exclusive skins, and the rest will have crafted ones.
I think 100% chance of getting a chest if you defeat him is very fair, because you have a random chance of that to get 17 different chests.
You mean eight (8) chances at an Ascended weapon, with no requirements of success being fair?
How is this not asking for Easy Mode? You’re just trying to be unfair to the Elite players. But that’s ok. Exclusive rewards are highly desirable, thus by definition will make everyone want to have one. So I don’t fault you for wanting to get one for less effort.
I’m asking for a reward increase, not for the difficulty to be worse.
Please take your elitism elsewhere.
https://twitter.com/TalathionEQ2
What would you rather have…
Him staying as he currently is with reasonable loot.
25%-50%-75%-100% chance to have a 10% chance to get what you want. (since there are so many ascended types
Him being nerfed to the ground because nobody will do him.
His health/powers/everything will be lowered to casual level, nobody will want to due him because crafting your own guarenteed ascended weapon is much easier and less time consuming. Even crafting a legendary is the same!
I’d rather he stay challenging, but have reasonable loot, BUT that is just me. I KNOW for a fact that one of these things will happen…
https://twitter.com/TalathionEQ2
Those rewards are a bit too high, but I do agree with the idea in general of giving him better rewards. My reward schedule would look more like:
75% Health
1 guaranteed rare
2 exotic boxes
15% chance at an exotic weapon50% Health
1 guaranteed rare
2 exotic boxes
25% chance at an exotic weapon25% Health
2 guaranteed rares
35% chance at an exotic weapon
4 exotic boxes0%, You successfully downed him.
6 rares and 2 guaranteed exotic weapons
6 exotic boxes
50% chance for an additional exotic weapon
15% chance for an ascended weapon
7.5% chance for a Tequatl ascended weaponYou don’t understand
Its not that high, its like 2.5% to get what you want.
In time, people will be downing him regularly. You don’t want to make ascended crafting invalidated.
No, he will be nerfed instead. Currently hes a waste of time.
Have you ever played a game like Lineage 2 with big open world bosses (Antharas, Baium, Lilith)?
Don’t care about other games. I know the path the game will take if the reward isn’t worth the effort.
People will avoid the encounter.
https://twitter.com/TalathionEQ2
Elementalists are just at an inherent statistical disadvantage. We start off with the lowest armor/health of any class, and then ontop of that, we have to put 300 points in a line that doesn’t give any stats. By the time we’re done gearing to compensate for this fundamental disparity, we have absolutely no room left on our gear for damage.
Almost every other class gets at least 250-300 points worth of condition damage, precision damage or power from their traits and ALL have more health or armor than we do.
Where are we getting compensated for this, statistically speaking?
Our class mechanic is at complete odds with many of our traits. Attunement dance and “when attuned to _ element” traits are contradictory.
Our class mechanic is overly dependent on Arcana to be even somewhat functional.
Our survivability is extremely low, with no compensation in terms of decent damage or mobility. To gain halfway decent damage we lose almost every bit of whatever little survivability we have. To gain more survivability we lose every bit of whatever little damage we have. Compared to warriors, who don’t have to worry about sacrificing damage for defense or vice versa, it’s really pathetic. This is a problem in both PvE and PvP.
Almost all of our survivability is in Water. Along with the mandatory investment in Arcana, our build options are limited. (Fresh Air is only worth taking if you’re running Scepter; otherwise, it’s pointless.)
Our skills on an individual basis (except rare gems like Phoenix) are weak and are on ridiculously long cooldowns with the rationale seemingly being “because we have access to more skills.”
Our auto-attacks (except Lightning Whip and Fireball) lack any potency.
We are stuck in one range in combat, with no ability to switch, with the exception of Conjures, which in addition to being gimmicky (which I don’t think will be fixed by the upcoming patch), lock us out of our attunements.
while i agree on most of these points i see another major flaw.
imagine if the necromancer didnt have his shroud form, or the ranger didnt have his pet, etc, it didnt exist and he got nothing instead… how strong do you think the class’s would be?
my point is that is what have happened to the ele, we got NO special ability which can “reinforce” us in a heavy way… we got attunement which is more of a handicap then a bonus due to all the issue’s you have with trying to mix 4 “weapon switch” abilities into doing something others have to be able to do with 2..
i really do believe there is a serious need for an actual effective bonus mechanic, and activation of some sort instead of just the clear “weapon swap” which all other classes gets for free…
we forget to mention the traits as well, which is CLEARLY splitted up amongst elements made in a way where they buff the element and not all elements, which when we are suppose to constantly use all elements is an inharent issue as well..
made a little suggestion on an active ability for the ele.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/elementalist/Attunement-and-Traits-Revamp-idea/first#post2825766
Dante, thanks for the very well structured response.
1. I don’t think arcana should be useless (far from it), but I think we can all agree that it shouldn’t be absolutely necessary to play the class without stinking.
Absolutely, arcana should be able to boost or augment what our elements and utility skills do as a whole but with the way the current arcana traits are spread out and how it’s tied to our attunement recharge rates, arcana just doesn’t seem optional as other classes’ utility trait lines.
2. I don’t think staff should be great at aoe, but it should have the ability to at least survive pretty well. Potential changes to earth 4 might help. I really just want to see air 2/3 fixed (especially 3).
Air 3’s projectile is too slow, air 2’s cast time is too long, and earth 4 is just plain terra-bad.
4. Cantrips do bring survival, but they do it worse than every other class. Compare mistform to elixir s. Elixir s has a shorter cooldown, and comes with a utility to give stealth. That is 2 get out of jail free cards on one ability: 100% better than mistform. Compare armor of earth to any other stability skill (like warrior dolyak signet) and you will see it is terrible. Arcane shield is fine. Cleansing fire’s cooldown is absurd: its long enough that you can only use it 1x per fight, but loses out on other effects. Compare this to Contemplation of Purity on a Guard (full condi clear + stunbreak on a 60s cooldown), which can also only be used 1x per fight.
The thing about mist form is that pre-nerf, it allowed you to do many important things such as rez someone, and use healing/utility skills (heavy emphasis on the healing) without taking damage. This skill basically allowed 3 seconds of support with near invulnerability making it something of a must-have on skill bars.
Combine that with ether renewal, and you have the ability to remove a massive amount of conditions and have a really powerful heal that is almost uninterruptible (it all depended on what order you activated the skills and how long it would take for you to activate the second skill). This created a very potent combination of survivability and was, as I said before, something of a must-have.
As much as I hate to say it, mist form had to get hit, but with the way it got hit, it’s nothing more than a living version of our downed 3 skill that lasts 1 second longer (or as some view it, a 50% longer duration). Mist form needs attention in my opinion.
As for the other cantrips, I agree, they are in need of some attention too. Even though armor of earth is useful with the prot and stability, it’s hampered by its cooldown. Cleansing fire is a decent skill, but like armor of earth, it too is held back by a long cooldown with little to no benefit for anything else (now that the stunbreak was removed). If anything, I would love to see a small healing effect be applied for each condition removed or have the condition removal be AoE.
On the subject of arcane shield, I personally am not a fan of this skill because of its long cooldown (75 seconds) and the fact that it lasts 3 attacks. I’m not denying that it’s really useful, I just feel that it would be better if the cooldown wasn’t so long.
Looking at the cantrips individually, you can say that they are poor compared to the other options that other classes have. However, if I remember correctly, there has been a recent developer blog/post that state their intentions and views of balancing a class and granting access to certain skills to fulfill a specific role. The elementalist’s cantrips might be our answer to the engineer’s elixer s, and the warrior’s dolyak signet in one handy skill type, but we, just like them, must have our drawbacks. This may be a point that the devs keep in mind when looking at our skills.
7. Elementalists are “fine” in that they have one stupid gimmick build (S/D burst) that can do o.k. if carried, but still does its job worse than a thief/mesmer. They are buffing staff, and I can see it becoming a viable support/control bunker perhaps. D/D is or non-burst S/D is dead, and other specs are weighed down by the primary inherent flaws.
We’ll have to see just what exactly will be buffed aside from possible AoE increases to the staff water line and a change to the staff earth 4 skill on Oct. 15th. Personally, I wouldn’t mind Anet taking a close examination of the player’s perceived issues with the entire staff and making some adjustments here and there… Fire 1 and 2 are too slow, and meteor shower’s tooltip doesn’t show the increase to the individual meteor’s AoE (also, it’s random, as many will have seen in older posts, I like consistency). In fact, other than one of the patches stating that meteor shower’s meteor AoE was increased, I don’t even know by how much.
I wonder how making staff heals better is going to help elementalists. GW2 is a game that does not require support in most circumstances. I don’t think the announced changes to staff will be very noticable, so the devs keep producing changes that miss the target again and again. Maybe that is why the complaints, that eles are too weak, keep showing up. Anet’s weird focus on conjured weapons, which usually force the elementalist into close combat, is entirely ignoring the nature of this class. Eles are the mages of GW2, which means most people probably prefer staying at range.
(edited by Andross.5183)
Dante, thanks for the very well structured response.
1. I don’t think arcana should be useless (far from it), but I think we can all agree that it shouldn’t be absolutely necessary to play the class without stinking.
2. I don’t think staff should be great at aoe, but it should have the ability to at least survive pretty well. Potential changes to earth 4 might help. I really just want to see air 2/3 fixed (especially 3).
4. Cantrips do bring survival, but they do it worse than every other class. Compare mistform to elixir s. Elixir s has a shorter cooldown, and comes with a utility to give stealth. That is 2 get out of jail free cards on one ability: 100% better than mistform. Compare armor of earth to any other stability skill (like warrior dolyak signet) and you will see it is terrible. Arcane shield is fine. Cleansing fire’s cooldown is absurd: its long enough that you can only use it 1x per fight, but loses out on other effects. Compare this to Contemplation of Purity on a Guard (full condi clear + stunbreak on a 60s cooldown), which can also only be used 1x per fight.
7. Elementalists are “fine” in that they have one stupid gimmick build (S/D burst) that can do o.k. if carried, but still does its job worse than a thief/mesmer. They are buffing staff, and I can see it becoming a viable support/control bunker perhaps. D/D is or non-burst S/D is dead, and other specs are weighed down by the primary inherent flaws.
-Survival utilities are selfish and on unreasonable cooldowns. There is no reason that mistform should have a longer CD than Elixir S (which also has a util to grant stealth now). There is no reason that armor of earth should have a 90s CD, while stand your ground is 30s, and shares the stab. There are no utilities (other than the unusable glyph of renewal) that can support your team-mates. Only GoEP does anything helpful for them by debuffing your opponents, but can’t be take b/c of primary issue #1.
If you have things you disagree on, or want to add, please respond below and continue the discussion.
(edited by BlackBeard.2873)
Hello everybody,
I know there are a lot of whine threads about why the elementalist is terribad in general, and I hope this not to devolve into one. Instead, I want to foster actual discussion about the nature of inherent issues with the class so that some proper balancing might bring us in line with other classes, someday… Before proper balancing can be done, we have to truly understand the problem:
The Problem
#1: The underlying problem with elementalists is that survivability, even at its maximum is very poor. Having low health/armor isn’t an issue if you are given the proper tools to survive (like stealth, aegis, protection, cleansing, healing, blocks, evades, etc.). In the past, we supposedly had too much survivability b/c we could heal too well, and had mobility to get away when the fit hit the shan. However, repeated nerfs have decrease out healing, decreased our mobility, decreased our defensive utilities, and even decreased the effectiveness of our boons (boon hate, stripping, necro buffs).
#2: Very poor sustained damage. Our autoattacks are pathetically weak, and don’t hit nearly hard enough given how squishy we are. Sure, we can have a single large burst with S/D by expending everything, but then we are a sitting duck and have no defensive utility. If the opponent survives (a single dodge-roll does the trick), you are a free kill. Other glass cannons have superior sustained damage and survivabilty through stealth/mobility.
Contibuting factors
- X/F has no real survivability b/c it is forced to “stay in the pocket” due to no mobility, can’t heal (our form of defense), and can’t even out-damage its enemies while standing there because /F destroys our burst capabilities, while only adding minimal control/invulns. This weapon set wants sustained fights, but can’t achieve the sustained dps to even win. The weapon is inherently flawed.
-Forced to spec into 30 arcane and 10 water (or 20/15 at a minimum, preferably 30/15) to have any survivability (healing) which is supposed to be inherent to the class to make up for the poor armor/health. Destroys build options and the chance to go more offensive (for greater damage), exacerbating #2.
-Terrible mobility at its maximum, considering that mobility is one of the primary survival mechanisms for a squishy. RtL nerf kills most reasonable specs chance to even survive. Staff ele has some limited control options for short escapes, actually making it more survivable than X/D.
-Arcane utilities give instant-damage options, making burst specs good enough to be barely unviable. However, these utilities serve no other purpose, are incredibly boring, and make it infinitely harder to fix any of the other issues.
-Unreasonable base attunement recharge rate, forcing points into arcana and destroying build diversity (although arcana has the best traits anyway). This further exacerbates both #1 and #2, as arcana gives no actual useful stats for building offensively/defensively. The +boon duration does have a secondary effect on survivability (more protection/regen), but its efficacy has been severely nerfed. Offensively, boon duration doesn’t do much b/c ele dies before it can really get going and build up might through combo fields. Compare this to HgH engies (not optimal, but still playable), who can run around with might stacks b/c they don’t rely on combo fields.
-Staff has no ability to deal damage 1v1 reliably. Fire is o.k. b/c is it doing what it is meant to, but air 2 and 3 are absolutely terrible for what they are used for. The cast time of air 2 is way too long, and the damage way too low. The 3 ability usually misses even at point-blank range. I don’t even know why the skill exists. If you want an example of the proper implementation of aoe, however, look at staff: you stand in the aoe, the effect accumulates over time. Compare this to engie nades/bombs or necro marks: they pop once and the entire effect (damage + conditions) are applied. Nerf those to be more like staff.
(edited by BlackBeard.2873)
Except RTL could be stopped. Guardian 3 ball chain thing, Mesmer line pull, ranger knockback & probably more I`ve not noticed.
Worse, in RTL we`re a useless ball of sparks, at least those chilled can still fight/heal etc. Also they have higher hp/armour to boot.
Warriors can trait for any movement skill to remove immobilising effects, fairly sure both cna still move whilst using their copious amount of movement spells, even if a little slower.
Ranger pets can remove conditions, combined with they also get higher damage output as standard, due to ele having to go into 30 arcane/30water just to survive average goings on.We get stunned, we can`t do kitten & we die.
The main problem is that we`re still either okayish melee only or feeble staff ranged.
Every other profession can do both at press of a button, Warriors traited weapon swap every 4 seconds.Gimme that, you can keep your RTL..
You’re right about that. When I have Mobile Strikes on, Rush won’t be affected by movement impairing effects. it breaks them. And you can also trait to reduce the cooldowns on all GS skills. Warrior’s movement is superior to ele’s in every single way. Even if they did un-nerf RTL, they would still be superior. Its ridiculous how much ground I can cover when I hit my Signet of Rage then whirlwind, then rush, then bulls charge, then swap to sword and savage leap and because I have Fast Hands I wait 5 secs then swap back to GS and by that time I can rush again. No one will EVER catch me. Ele just has RTL on a 40 sec cooldown, burning speed, only 15 seconds but goes a very short distance, LF which is also 40 seconds. I don’t count Firey Greatsword because if you get jumped, in the 4 seconds it takes for you to summon it, which can be interrupted if someone hits you, you will die. If a warrior specced for movement gets jumped, he’s getting away no matter what. Same deal with ranger or thief. An ele specced for everything we have at our disposal that gives us speed, will rarely ever get away. RTL and lightning flash both need much lower cooldowns especially now that they nerfed LF by removing the stunbreak. there’s no justifiable reason why it should have that long of a cooldown even if it does do damage.
I think it’s just plain unbalanced that elementalists are punished with a longer cooldown for using ride the lightning without a target, while other classes are allowed to continue to use their attacks as escape/mobility options without targets…
Makes no sense.
Its original CD was excessively low and could be traited to be a 12 second recharge, but 40 seconds (that doesn’t always properly hit and thus reduce recharge) is absurd. And no, fixing the hitbox bugs that trigger recharge reduction will not solve this problem. It needs to be a static 24 seconds, give or take before traits.
why is 12 seconds to excessive?
Ranger Greatsword is 12 seconds (without trait) goes 1100range, is a combo finisher
Warrior Greatsword is 20 seconds (without trait) goes 1200range
The ONE class that has NO option of going between range and melee with D/D and make the skill that is pretty much the SAME as the ones above and give it a cool down that is at least twice as long as just the 2 above is a joke
if it must have the “on hit” thing then it needs to be UNBLOCKABLE or remove it and reduce the overall cool down. 20 seconds before trait seems fair.
yes, and? it’S not like if you can use them all in a single fight since you can only use 2 weapon, and as an elementaliste, i prefer to focus on frost skill (water if you prefer) making in sort i don’t really use the others element.
If you are focusing on a single element you are limiting the potential of your elementalist by a great deal. And as it has been said before, if you want a longbow, just conjure one, it is even a frost one, your favourite element.
More weapons will be added later on, it has been confirmed. (As a side note, I’d rather see rifle added before longbow, focusing on long range, single target, high damage)