Guild Wars 2

Are you guys for real? Read all posts before going on a subject that has already been discussed. Go look under -Roles- Sections on the official Gw2 Wiki about WvW.

In most WvW, there is some form of zerg where large numbers of players congregate to capture objectives. Zergs are usually led by 1 or more commanders. This allows friendly players who are not part of the zerg to know the current position of the zerg. […]

The combat among zergs can also be divided into open field and wall fighting, where the latter describes the situation of one team fighting from the top of the walls of a tower, keep or castle. Front-line role occurs in open area combat. It is usually filled by tank professions such as Guardian or Warrior. They can push the line or flank the enemy zerg in an open area fight. In the case of wall fighting, front-line role is at a minimal.

Roamers are usually individuals or very small groups that go behind enemy lines to achieve objectives that would normally be impractical or impossible for a zerg. They include:

Killing or deterring enemy stragglers and reinforcements
Defending and destroying supply caravans
Capturing enemy camps
Tagging (or tapping) – Attacking an enemy keep sufficiently that it (and its waypoint, if any) becomes contested
Providing intel about enemy zerg size and position
Creating diversion for enemy zerg

For the fights players plays within the rules as much as a PPT player plays within the rules.

Please read before speaking. Thanks for your understanding.

You seem to have missed the part about being immune to burning only “When in or near the Fire Keep”.

This buff is also dependent on controlling all 3? of the fire shrines which are OUTSIDE the keep proper. Very contestable, very ninjable.

Saying this is targeted at classes with burning is like saying the air buff immunity to falling damage is targeted at classes with fear…

Paulie.6215:

Sorry about your anger.

Every class has it’s ‘perks’. This is the thief’s perk.

I think it’s kind of absurd that necros can add 18k HPs to themselves with death shroud. Or how rangers have just as much burst at 1500 range than I do in melee range.

It all works out.

A necro who has lost to you just cannot flee. It doesn’t matter how much HP they have, it’s literally impossible for a necro to flee. That second HP bar doesn’t buy them that, that second HP bar is an alternative for a class that has no access to other survival skills, such as vigor for more dodge, or invulns, blocks etc. Anyone who thinks necro is OP based on that bar doesn’t know what necro don’t have access to and don’t understand the role of such a bar.
That initial burst from rangers isn’t very difficult to avoid. Most classes will be content just dodging or blocking through it while closing the gap.
The real and only problem with thieves isn’t something like being OP in actual combat. They’re not. The problem is the trolling with troll builds. Thieves can be built in such a way in wvwvw that they can pretty much harass you across the whole map and there is nothing you can do about it. They won’t kill you because they’re bad and the troll builds made to be highly resilient can’t kill anything but every time they see they’re losing against you they can just disengage into getting out of combat, wait for all their cd, initiative etc and then come back and harass again, and again, and again. It’s never interesting to fight the same losing idiot over and over and over while roaming around.
I’ve had it happen a few times for 10+ minutes where the same thief would engage me again, and again, and again, and lose every time, disengage, I’d see on my bar that I’m out of combat so they were ooc too and then they come back and continue that pointless harassment again.

It’s not a problem in TPVP because anyone who’d run one of those troll builds, or just run with anything in SA is such a detriment to their team that you don’t even need to pay attention to them.

I’m not really fond of so-called “optional” (but not really) buffs like food in some MMO’s. Maybe it’s because food was not a thing in my first online game, GW. There’s way too much crap in the inventory as it is, and consumables just take more spots. I’d be less meh about food if the benefits lasted longer, and if the wallet were routinely expanded every time ANet gets it into their head that, "The game needs a new currency.

Still, I don’t expect ANet to get rid of food. Too much negative impact on all those cooks.

I would be happy if they just nerfed the +condi dura food, it’s awful

Any Buff Items at all should get completely removed from WvW!!

The crap has nothing to search in there at all to begin with it.
The only “Buffs”, which should exist in WvW would be only then:

• The Shrine Buffs (so that it becomes alot more important, who holds all the Shrines, currently this interesrs absolutely nearly no single kitten , because all what you need is Food and Potions basically to overwhelm your foes…)
• The WvW Trait Buffs for being skilled in receiving Buffs für your Power and Max Health when killing Enemy NPCs, as that is part of Character Progression within WvW so far.

But anything besides of that shouldn’t work.
PvE Buff Stuff like Food and Potions should be PVE ONLY, just like in GW1.
Therefore, that this stuff is PvE Only then, Anet could boost the Buff Effects then for PvE, so that these Buff Items in Pve could be more effectful and fun there, without risking it, that the stuff might become way too powerful for WvW.

And if Anet insists on keeping Food and potions for WvW, then they should at least introduce WVW SPECIAL FOOD & POTIONS, which should be the only food and potions useable in WvW which everyone should be able to buy in WvW from Badges of Honor for example simply, putting in Starter Zones somewhere a new War Chef NPC which sells then there Buff Food and Potions for the WvW currency that would be the only additional buff stuff in WvW that would be allowed then there.

What they could is make more maps available as the population as increases.

So smaller maps would be forced to play on less maps, maybe even just 1.

But people would complain about that for sure.

mako.2431:

No class should be able to attack, stealth when you attack them back, heal and clease while stealthed, then come out of steath and reattack you, rinse, repeat until you are dead.

I have no problem with thieves having escapability, none at all. My problem is in and out of stealth fighting bullspit. Enough, peroid. I don’t know of any other game that allows such crap. They should hit like a truck, they should be able to sneak around, they should be able to poof and escape AFTER their kill or to get out of a tough fight….but they should not be able to repeatedly re-stealth in the middle of a fight to heal and cleanse over and over, it is absolutely absurd.

/rant off….let the flaming begin

How would you feel if they left all the mechanics the same except you don’t lose target when they go in stealth?
(technically this would be an auto-reacquire of target after leaving stealth, so (like now) you can’t fire directly at stealthed target).

Shinji.2063:

Stealth is very hard to balance in wvw, in pvp it is actually a very balanced ability in that it is kept in check by conquest mode.

Actually a big reason stealth is more balance in spvp is revealed last 4s, which means thieves can’t go back into stealth that quickly unlike how it is in wvw which revealed is only 3 seconds. That extra second allows more opportunity to counter play.

My objection isn’t to stealth – its to the worst tab target/autotarget system I’ve ever seen in 14 years of MMOs. When a thief stealths I don’t need my attack focus shifting to a gerbil in the adjacent zip code!

Stealth is very hard to balance in wvw, in pvp it is actually a very balanced ability in that it is kept in check by conquest mode. All the stealth shenanigans you want to pull can have a very heavy cost but in wvw that opportunity cost is just not there to counterbalance it and is just very frustrating and unfun.

With the new pvp map though in HOTS not being conquest though we might see some of the balance bleed through to wvw since anet does not really care about wvw balance.

I say get rid of all superior siege as well while we are at it.

Can we make WvW more like SPvP and control all these silly buffs?

Great suggestion. I have another one. Put PvP in PvE. It would fun and brings variety into PvE.
Imagine you want to kill Tequatl but then a player driven enemy trys to kill you during the event. Or outside of Lions Arch where you gather some materials another player comes along who “claimed” this land for his kingdom. So he kills you because you steal from him.
So i think mixing PvE with PvP would be a great thing and it would make things more fun in PvE.

I am afraid they might have painted themselves into a corner with the concept of the “home” map system which requires 3 copies of an identical map for fairness so each side always has the same point potential in three-way mirror images. I would love to see ANET break themselves out of that habit in some way that maintains the equality but gives us WvW access to all of the maps for more choice.

That might require some overhauls to the existing EotM & EB maps for better color balance and point total potentials. 4 maps, one of each if you add HoT & Alpine sounds like the ideal goal for once they start with the rotation plan at least until they make another map in a few years I guess. Just don’t think the regular WvW populations can take more than 4 maps unless they drastically lower the population caps on them which they might have to do when HoT hits anyways given how laggy every new thing always is.

Cufufalating.8479:

I never understand this separation between PPTs and Fights, honestly.

As someone who used to (quite a while ago now) be i na guild which only wanted fights, I remember some days where we’d run around and do nearly nothing all night because we spent so long looking for the “perfect” open field relatively even fight, which of course almost never happened.

Contrast that with now, where I am not in a guild but rather follow one of the guilds doing an open raid and we go around attacking / defending none stop, and we have fights every 5 minutes all night long, without fail.

So really, in my experience trying to playing"just for fights" results in you actually getting very few fights and no points, and playing to capture or defend objectives results in more fights and more points. The 2 really aren’t seperated.

Agreed with you. If you just sit and do nothing, fights won’t come to you. As I said before, PPT is the magnet for the fights (as it stands for me). Once I get a fight, I won’t stop it to save a fully upgraded garrison or such.

The difference is that contrary to a PPTer, I will almost never use my time repairing objectives, building defensive siege, upgrading structures, I won’t run from a fight in order to save an objective and I won’t besiege a structure that is heavily defended. The fight is there and I’m enjoying it ; PPT is only something that happens while I’m looking for a fight.

I was wondering how we kept Keeps that we normally lose to Omega Rush by the server that already outnumbers us.

I too vote to leave them disabled. Maybe disable all Superior Siege and see how that goes for awhile.

Aha thats why I noticed so many golems on the enemy servers yesterday. Could be because of the exploit.
I never had much love for these golems so I dont mind if they are deactivated for 2 years.

Players have been complaining about omega golems tearing down their siege and therefore cannot defend against an enemy zerg, especially if there are only 10 of them.

So let’s use this exploit for another WvW test. Even if you fix the exploit, leave golems disabled for the next 2 matchups. Maybe allow alphas but disable omegas.

Then lets see how this affects the night capping crews of some servers. I can tell you right now, instead of our BL and EB section being totally gone by morning, we still have it. This is most likely due to the enemy servers not being able to golem rush with omegas!

Anyone else second?

My opinion:

PPT gives fights meaning. Fights give PPT action and excitement.

Otherwise, fights without purpose get boring after a while; likewise PPT is a little ho-hum without the risk of conflict.

As usual, somewhere in the middle is just right.

ArenaNet : World versus World (also known as WvW) is a Player versus Player game mode where players from three different servers, or worlds, battle in the Mists. It features open-world combat on five large maps with up to several hundreds of players per map. In World versus World, players can besiege structures such as Keeps and Towers with siege weapons, and battle over resources, to win rewards for their world and World Experience for themselves.

-It is not ONLY a PPT battle. Find what you like in WvW and play it.

-I will speak as a roamer. It is what I do the most afterall.

-Do I flip camps for the score? No. I flip them so ennemies come. If ennemies come and fight me, do I run and flip more camps? No.

-I once had duels for 2 hours with my friends versus other roamers in my borderland. Map chat was asking for help on Bay and it was fully upgraded/sieged. We lost Bay.
Map chat was asking for help on Hills and it was fully upgraded/sieged. We lost Hills.
Map chat was asking for help on Garri and it was fully upgraded/sieged. We lost Garri.

-In the end the guy wrote a wall of text saying thatif the duelers/spectators came to defend those objectives we could of defended it since it was sieged but had no one to use it. We had around 10 spectarors from both server (total of 20) and about 3 different duels taking place each minutes.

If I ever get in the same situation. I would act the same way. This morning will never be forgotten for me.

I think there’s both a scoring component and a population imbalance component that contributes to night capping, but these are two very distinct issues (which is why there was a separate CDI for each one).

At least in the scoring CDI, the consensus agreement was that a good fix for this is to split each day up into scoring periods (similar to what one poster above said about 8 hour mini matches, though I think we agreed that shorter periods of 3 or 4 hours would be better). This would prevent a server that has a very stacked nighttime population from running up the score while the majority of players on the other team are asleep. I don’t think the maps should be reset between periods though, that would discourage upgrading and defending.

For example: Say you had 4 hour scoring periods. PPT would accumulate during each period, and the winning server in each period would gain, say, 5 points toward their weekly score, while the 2nd and 3rd place servers would gain 3 and 2 points, respectively. At the end of the period, accumulated PPT would reset, but the map and all placed siege would stay the same. So, if you had a server with a crazy stacked nighttime population, they would likely win 1 or 2 scoring periods, gaining 5 points each time, but the magnitude of their win (the total amount of PPT they accumulated) wouldn’t matter. Obviously this wouldn’t prevent servers from night capping everything and making all objectives paper, but ideally over time the changes to scoring would encourage player populations to spread out more evenly across time zones (since stacking a time zone is no longer nearly so beneficial), which would hopefully eventually eliminate the problem with night capping.

The population imbalance problem is a little trickier. Frankly I’m not a big fan of changing map population quotas or introducing a handicap based on current map populations; if anything this presents an opportunity for servers to game the system by purposefully not queueing into WvW. I have a feeling that the scoring changes above would end up fixing most of the issue given enough time.

That said, I think there should be more of an incentive for players to spread out throughout the tiers. Not to the point where there’s an even number of players across servers — I think players should be able to choose whether they want to be on a high pop or low pop server — but to at least where it’s less likely that you’ll be matched up with a server that has a population an order of magnitude greater than yours. I think the best way to encourage this would be to implement a tiered pricing scheme for transfer costs, where the servers consistently in the lowest tiers are cheaper to transfer to than the servers consistently in the highest tiers.

Well, all they really need is to tune up the borderlands. Then we have 3 unique borders – old border, eotm border (just make another version) and hot border. Then go over EB at the end.

I hope thats what it means. It would give us the complete set of 4 unique maps for very little of their effort.

Until 3 guys with a brain split off from the attackers, take one shrine and the pirate-ship sinks in a glorious combustion before it can reach land again…

HitmanHaydon.1053:

Any business that has customers telling it exactly what they want from a product and it ignores them, is doomed to failure.

It’s a given that you only like what you know. You would never really know you’d like a first-person portal-based puzzle game (Portal) until Valve created it. Lots of people thought destructible terrain would be fun, and then when it was implemented in Edge of the Mists opinions became more divided. Sometimes even a “good idea” can turn out bad.

TeemuS.7934:

You people dont seem to understand that stealth is broken as it is.
I understand that if u bomb aoe or spam guard staff 1 to a place thief is in stealth, ofcourse it hits
As i said Ranger longbow rapid fire. It still targets you if you are in stealth even if you dodge in stealth
Necro axe skill 2 ghastly claws still hits you 8 times even if you have stealthed before 1st hit and dodge it, rest of the hits will still be succesful.
So i think that doesnt count as survival does it?
Aswell as rangers see where the arrows go they know exactly where you are moving because they still have long skill that doesent lose target.
As i said it keeps target even if you have stealthed long ago before the first hit and dodge

Until you cannot stealth/attack/stealth/attack/stealth/attack me until I die I don’t car if they nerf you into non-existence.

Pyriel.4370:

styx.7294:

Pyriel.4370:

Either way, the problem with WvW isn’t to do with legendary scavenger mechanics, it’s to do with the attention it requires to function effectively, like actual new content similar to what PvE gets. Though PvP has been largely neglected content wise over all.

Nonsense. Talk like that got us Edge of the Mists.

WvW is fine ’cept for the transferring.

The map completion was great ‘cause it got PvE folk to integrate somewhat with the WvW folk. It got you a more sense of community rather than pretend you’re in your own world apart from your server (though after megaserver, who in PvE even cares about what WvW server you’re on? What sense of community is there that PvE folk on Server A have any community with the WvW folk on server A?)

People on maps not zergin with the commander but doin jump puzzles or completin PvE objectives are great. They’re not killin WvW, empty maps are killing WvW (now emptier still!).

I didn’t mean more content in terms of maps, I meant more WvW content to draw people to it, like new siege weps, new aspects, refining of the current aspects, rather than force PvErs to play WvW for world completion. In regards to ‘similar to what PvE gets’, I meant in terms of the attention that PvE gets.

Map completion wasn’t all sunshine and daisies, plenty of PvE players hated having to do it in WvW while getting ganked.

There is one thing for sure in the WvW forum, for some people you are kitten ed if you do, kitten ed if you don’t.

Last part is true in everything that involves the opinions of at least two people. No reason to beat up on WvW folk.

And of course map completion wasn’t sunshine and daisies. WvW isn’t sunshine and daisies. It is getting ganked and zerged and all that wonderful stuff. But we’re doing it together!

You meant “ambush” right? I think the bush idea can already work and they may have likely something in the center jungle area. This won’t stop people from zerging but it may help a roamer escape from one.

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

What is really needed is the removal of the idea of the home server.

Instead it should work on an alliance of guilds with a strict cap on how many people can belong to an alliance at a given time.

This would also allow for guild hierarchy to remove players who are inactive or caught spying for another side.

As for people who have no intrust in maintaining membership in such an organization they could simply have them tossed together in a random alliance each week (with some consideration for guilds & friends lists)

This ^ combined with improvements to map design would do great wonders for fixing the many problems with WvW.

Someone said it a while back. The way it stands today is that the only thing that separates the number one ranked server to the last ranked server is population AND wall clock coverage. There is no more skill on those servers than any others. If you believe there is, then it is just the ego getting in the way.

Furthermore, this isn’t anything unique to GW2. We saw similar issues back in DaOC. Some servers and factions had greater coverage and so the story goes again. Hard to hold towers, keeps, or relics when one of the factions is asleep, no? Oddly enough what happened to our orbs? Yeah, similar to DaOC relics This is probably why WoW and other games created BG’s or open maps with time limits and users pulled from a bucket. Arena Net did it with Edge of Mists…

If you want to somehow tie in server pride into ranks, then maybe you should consider:
1. Make claiming and defending towers, keeps, and castles worth something
2. Make the guards useful and broadcast messages in /g if under attack
3. Form alliances on the server and broadcast message in /alliance
4. Allow cross-server alliances to port to world in which alert was broadcast
4a. Time gate the cross server alliance / hot join so it isn’t abused
5. Assign XP point per player based on level. Score such that 1 v 1 kill = max points 2 v 1 kill = points divide by players tagged/assist kill, X v 1 (zerg vs 1) divide again

Unless they shorten the games to say 15 or 30 minute chunks there is no way to get around the population and wall clock issues. At least in my opinion.

Edit: Not to pick on this server, but if you want an example take Americas/Maguuma. This is a server that was doing well, then had some drama and lost a lot of people, fell down to where Ehmry Bay would solidly beat them, and now are back on the rise in ranks after what key element happened recently? An influx of people/guilds…