Guild Wars 2

In some ways I think this is like EA’s move into mobile. Telling their customers “The new dungeon keeper wasn’t made for you, it was made for a new generation of fans”. Clearly, gw2 was not made to appease the people who played gw1. Maybe at one point that was the intention, but then some committee got ahold of it and now it’s just one big hot mess.

The game needs dynamic changes. Huge reworkings. Not skill balancing, not nerfing this skill and buffing that one, but big huge reworkings like when Blizz redid their starting zones with new missions and so on. The fact is, however, that if that ever happens in gw2, it will only happen when it is financially the only way left to survive. The vast majority of the things your real fans want (like the roleplayers you just screwed by taking their dyeable town clothes away, I don’t even RP but it’s clear that’s a jerk move aimed at the people who actually bother to buy your gems, and for what?) are never going to happen. You’re going to placate us with bits and pieces and hope it’s enough, and maybe it is enough for some out there. Maybe it’s enough for enough whales to keep buying those BL keys and keeping you going. I hope it is. I hope you manage to pull an expansion out in a year or two and give me someplace to actually wear those legendaries and be “proud” of them. As it is I look at that time spent as a complete waste of my life, and that’s not something I have ever felt about a game before. It’s something that really makes me re-evaluate where I want to spend my time and money, and that’s another sensation I’m not used to feeling from a game. I can name a few games I’ve played 1000+ hours of, and I have no regrets for them. No regrets for the hundreds of hours I sunk into gw1 at all. Then again, gw1 was never like “Hey break out your credit card and support me if you want bugfixes. You do really love me don’t you?”. The attempts at manipulation are transparent and unbecoming. I realize all mmo’s are skinner boxes to some extent, but you’ve really piled up the psychological impulses to buy (more! now! don’t you want the best stuff?!) in ways that are obnoxious and clearly visible. Everyone knows why the 5% listing fee doesn’t show up in the projected profits, and it’s no accident that it happened. The game is set up to make you waste money testing useless builds that require a full set of 20g armor+runes+sigils+this and that and oh you need more laurels and more this and more but you can skip it if you just. break. out. that. credit. card.

I know that this post will get flamed, and that’s cool, I don’t really plan on responding anyway, I just have wanted to express my displeasure with the direction this game has been taken for a long time, but today was finally a large enough, over-hyped letdown that I am uninstalling, and I wanted to say why before I go. I hope my criticism here has been constructive enough that it won’t simply be removed.

Yes, I spent 1000+ hours playing this game. However, that time has only made me increasingly positive that wherever you’re heading with it, it’s not going to be any place worth actually traveling to, and nothing I couldn’t find in 100 similar mmo’s, with new ones being released now on a near monthly basis. After 1000 hours, for someone to say “I don’t recommend that game, it’s a complete waste of time and a non-stop grind” is about the harshest criticism you could receive, but I don’t pretend that anyone that matters will actually see me pointing it out or care.

See you in a few weeks or whenever your new dragon comes out. Will not expect to be impressed. Feel free to prove me wrong on that one.

Thank you for your time, although, if I could go back to 2012 and do it all again, I would not have bothered to give you mine,

BFS

Stormcrow.7513:

GW2 NEEDS an expansion and I am afraid that if it isn’t delivered soon that many players will be bored and leave.

That sorta already started happening months ago I’m afraid. Now it might get worse.

Anyway, awesome posts OP.

I do sincerely wish ANet would just commit, and actually label TC & PS as roleplay servers…. or maybe just as ‘roleplay friendly’.

I understand this is a mixed blessing, and a potential pain for them, but roleplayers stick with a game for a LONG TIME. And they buy lots of gemstore items.

It’d be nice to have a ‘roleplay’ tag … or add ‘roleplay’ to the LFG tool.

CaptainVanguard.4925:

Honestly I REALLY hope they don’t redeem scarlet for one kitten good reason.

Antagonists being redeemed is an over-hyped cliche and it offers no real longevity to the character, her death being a mad psychopath was actually the best way for her to go.

She died as she lived, evil to the kitten core.

I am not against redeemable antagonists but Scarlet never strikes me once as being someone that had a redeeming quality, in any form.

We still know nothing about her. We dont even know why she did everything she did. For example, why she put portals to her ship after we defeat her knights? What is the reason for her to help you in that? She could have just chilled in her ship, looking at dragon awakening. She helped us to much in this year. There were multiple instances, where she could have killed us, but she didn’t. I still believe, that she was growing heroes to fight the dragon. Think about it. She even called us “My special project”

Yes! All the yeses I have. Take it! I liked Scarlet from the moment she appeared with her twisted machines, but as said before, she was not introduced in a good way. Her character was funny and twisted, yet so many people disliked her before getting to know her background. Personally I was just sitting and waiting for Arenanet to reveal what made Scarlet go cocoo, and the see how many people would empathize with Scarlet afterwards. While everyone else were going “BOO KILL SCARLET”, me and my friend were sitting in a corner going “Wohoo Scarlet!” =P

This sounds like an amazing idea!
Scarlet really grew on me in the last updates, and I was also sad when we had to kill her (even though it was the best for everyone). This could also be a great way to get to know more about the dream.
On another note, I really wanted Taimi to actually meet Scarlet. That would be an interesting relationship if Scarlet came back as a ghost.

Elbegast.6970:

Scarlet Briar is an overused cardboard cutout, rightfully discarded in an alley dumpster behind a GameStop, bleached by the sun and weakened by the rain until almost nothing recognizable remains. Yet, you would take some fresh paint and recolor the discarded remnants to better suit the alleyway rather than calling the trash company to empty the dumpster? I don’t understand your viewpoint. She’s gone. You should rejoice!

Speak for yourself. She was a great character! Arenanet messed up on presenting her, but that doesn’t change the fact that beneath some clumsy writing, you have a true gem.
As for a sun-bleached cardboard cutout—I would definitely take some fresh paint to it and make it beautiful. That’s what artists do.

I liked it a lot, as well. At least until no one wanted to do them anymore. Maybe with the new ‘MegaServers’, events like those will be able to be more permanent and attended in the game. Here’s hoping! =)

DeceiverX.8361:

-snip- (just cause it was really long)

While it is true that a company cannot simply lay out a plan and adhere to it strictly in order to succeed. Neither can they succeed by bowing down to their players’ screams for various things either. They’ll have an outline, if you prefer that to plan, on where they want to go, things they want to do. Yes, they’ll look at feedback, they’ll adjust to keep the majority happy (cause ya just can’t please everyone), but they will also make decisions based on what is best for their overall goals (and profits, they are a business after all). We aren’t necessarily going to like it, or agree with it. Some will leave, others will be drawn in by what they find when they try it.

Could ANet have an issue with not following the basic “you are not your player” rule that is taught in the most beginning of game design courses? Sure. They have clearly stated that they are building “a game that they like to play”. So probably even likely. However, there are people of similar / like mind as them and enjoy the game. So they’ll obviously have at least some audience for the game, although perhaps not as large of one as they originally shot for. I don’t necessarily see that as a bad thing, just pushes them back in to the niche category. Of course, that doesn’t complete rule out just having wishy-washy decision makes with no clear goals either. That’s always a possibility too.

I don’t necessarily agree on the ‘bad track record’ comment. Anet is just being Anet. They are following the same trend they pretty much always have. Nothing they have done (outside of ascended) has surprised me significantly. shrug To each their own though. We all look at it differently.

cesmode.4257:

Sadly, I unintalled GW2 this weekend. Im spent on it. Things like the wardrobe I posted in the suggestions forum a month after release. Here we are 1.5 years later, and its finally coming. No Scav hunt. Still a focus on LS and zerg content. No love for dungeons(what happened to revamping the bosses in dungeons…just did AC and forgot about it? Oh, right, the living story).

No, Im done. After playing Wildstar the past two weekends and with the awsome updates to Diablo 3/expansion, I have more than enough to fill my time than waiting around 6 months, 9 months, year, 1.5 years for arenanet to breathe life into this game.

Big hype, huge letdown. This game could have been so much more if it focused on exploration, real world changes when run of the mill dynamic events succeed or fail, etc.

And yet here you are, in the forums of the game you dislike so much, putting a dampener on a positive post. Why man, why?

Leablo.2651:

Who is Mordremoth’s lieutenant and why will it be 1,000 times more powerful than Mordremoth himself?

Scarlet Briar was basically one of Mordremoth’s lieutenants and she was ten times more powerful than all of the dragons combined; she even destroyed Lion’s Arch. :p

I’ll say this My GF just beat Zhaitan 2 days ago, And THE RAGE……. I’ve NEVER once in the 4 years of living with her have seen her so angry over something in a game she reminded me of myself playing Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2 on Master Ninja setting ( I beat it though) Let’s just say IF this does happen for the next ED there will be 2 more inactive accounts. What zhaitain should of been is you do Arah to get attuned and then go fight Zhaitan with 500+ other players I hope they learn there lesson and while where at it trahearne needs to die or become bad.

OtakuModeEngage.8679:

Caveth.3268:

Here is the final Mordremoth fight in comic form.

This clearly isn’t just me pasting pictures and text over an old comic of Zhaitan that I made weeks ago.

Edit: The original – https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/escape/Treahearne-where-is-he/first#post3672837

… everyone seems to forget that both Trahearn and Destiny’s Edge congratulate and credit YOU for beating Zhaitan… go look over the dialogue again if you don’t believe me.

It’s just supposed to be a funny comic. I actually like Trahearne. <:

While we are excited over Scarlet’s death, we are overlooking something that still nags at the back of my mind.

Scarlet saw something in the eternal alchemy, something or someone, and it corrupted her, began to overtake her mind. We saw and heard this in the journal and even over our encounters (the change in tone and voice).

From what we know, the dragons can’t corrupt the Sylvari. So a dragon isn’t responsible for it.

We killed the puppet, but the puppeteer is still out there. They know about the dragons, and how to awaken them. I have a feeling this won’t be the last we see of someone going off the deep end.

Or she was just overloaded with information that she snapped. Who knows?

The nice thing about living story content is that its constant and keeps the game fresh. It also provides cosmetic rewards most of the time so if you have school, work, or whatever that doesn’t allow you to play the game during that time, you don’t really miss much. The bad thing is the same thing, its constantly changing. There is no permanent content and more and more the living story updates feel like wasted effort and time. It would take Anet a few weeks to make a living story and most of the time, you could complete everything regarding that living story in a day. Then it was two weeks of just roaming around the new content or going back to pvp, wvw, or whatever you were doing before.

End-game PvE content is really lacking. There are no larger dungeons to do with your guild or any solo intended content.

Anyone else miss those random map attacks Scarlet had? They should do something like this on a permanent basis. Could be some mad scientist creations getting away to cause havoc. Those events sure helped break things up and brought alot of people together.

The end of the living story was dark and what’s more, tragic. There was no feeling of a substantially happy ending. Thousands of civilians died, countless left with permanent injuries and health issues from the miasma, who knows how many homeless and business-less.
And now the world has another dragon to contend with. I mean they always did, but the world would have been a better place for them if they didn’t know. Ignorance is bliss.

I wouldn’t need it to go darker than that, and least of all with such a tacky idea of a ‘dark lord’ kind of character. They’re starting to get back to the Guild Wars Nightfall/Eye of the North era standard of writing, with a bit more soap-opera, and I’d be delighted if they continued exactly as they are.

I’ll just say, once the voice direction for Scarlet changed, I enjoyed her character a whole lot more. Her lines were delivered less manic and more calculating with some actual emotion behind them. She almost sounded more and more frustrated with her personal situation towards the end.

You know, I feel as if the writing improved ten-fold towards the last half of the living story. They must have hired better writers because I’m impressed and satisfied.

If you had watched the cutscene then you should know what to expect already. What makes a story dark isn’t really the villains but rather the good guys/girls. If you do away with the traditional notion of good and evil then you can create something truly dark. Let’s say your protagonists aren’t necessarily good and they are flawed like real people are. They try to do the right thing but things aren’t always black and white. Maybe they’re forced to sacrifice someone to save others and that someone is close to them and they end up letting everyone else die instead.

More to this point, the elder dragons aren’t really your traditional villains either. They are similar to the Old Ones from the Cthulu mythos in that they are neither good nor evil. It is simply their nature to destroy and consume. I believe they have been described as forces of nature. You try to kill them not because they’re bad but because they are threatening your way of life.

Well, yeah the human gods are human and other races don’t care. But on the other hand, we have sylvari lore focus so far in living story, and no one is dead or dying because of that (so far), so maybe we should revisit human lore sometime, just to have a little brake from the salad?

I wouldn’t mind if races would receive an uneven treatment, for the sake of a good story! And no, I am not a human player, Norn To Be Wild all the way.

I didn’t play GW1 much — wasn’t a fan. But I’ve read a bit about the lore and the story and it is very interesting to me. I know that essentially the whole idea with GW2 is all about the dragons, but I’m especially interested in the six gods.

I’d really like to see a living story season where our player characters (probably with the help of DE 2.0) try to find the gods and seek out their help. I haven’t thought too much about it but I really do want to see something with the gods. I think they’re so fascinating.

Do you think we would ever see something like that? Would you guys even want to see something like that? I could be the only one who is interested in this :P

Wolfheart.1938:

I’m sorry but when I look back at GW1 development cycle and compare it to GW2’s I find your posts, Lanfear, apologetic, rather than finding myself impatient.

I’m not sure why some people aren’t willing to acknowledge that this game is a bigger, more ambitious, more expensive and more complex project that Guild Wars 1 was. There really is no comparison.

Guild Wars 1 didn’t have a Z axis, a cash shop, an open world, underwater combat, multiple starter zones (for a single game). It didn’t have five races. It didn’t have different personal stories for different characters (everyone who played Prophecies had the same story and did the same missions. The only difference was a few profession quests, which were minor anyway).

Do you realize how many quests Prophecies had at launch? You should look it up some time. About the same number as Guild Wars 2 has hearts. But Guild Wars 2 launched with 1500 dynamic events. It didn’t have 25 missions, but it has 50 missions roughly per personal story, some of which are different from others.

Even if you add in Factions AND Nightfall, there’s still more content in Guild Wars 2. And the problems with having a format like WvW alone is it’s own special complication for developers.

Guild Wars 1 was a great game for its time, but face it. WIth no marketplace, no z-axis and no open world, it was a far easier game to manage.

Bread.7516:

Im not saying bug-free. Even when the internet wasn’t very popular, games were not bug-free. Polish is not the same as being bug-free.

Also i don’t see it as “mmo” that’s not a real genre (it’s like saying co-op is a genre), i see games as games.

It needed more time to incubate, and ill say it again someone somewhere pushed the game before it was ready.

Many users lump polish into the bug category. An icon is not the right shade of a specific color, for example. Doesn’t matter that it’s functional, it’s just not the right color.

Polish takes a back seat to functionality. I see this every day in my own job. We have more than 50 items in our ‘backlog’ that are just ‘polish’ type stuff – adjust a color, adjust a scale, etc etc. Whats more important is that a tool functions as it is intended to function, so people can use it.

Im not saying bug-free. Even when the internet wasn’t very popular, games were not bug-free. Polish is not the same as being bug-free. As you say, it’s impossible and should not even be talked about because only an idiot would assume any software is completely rid of bugs.

Schizo.1375:

The reason for releasing before it is polished is because at some point they have to start making money. Development costs are high and initial funds don’t last forever. A company, for MMOs specifically, would collapse long before releasing a polished game.

Yet somehow companies are still crunching out well-polished games.

Also i don’t see it as “mmo” that’s not a real genre (it’s like saying co-op is a genre), i see games as games; being an mmo is no excuse.

Even if the functional requirements are met, that doesn’t mean it is ready for the consumers. It needed more time to incubate, and ill say it again someone somewhere pushed the game before it was ready.

It is a matter of perspective in a sense since creating games is an art-form, and in my perspective the level of polish for games these days are declining and only a handful of companies do it right. Anet is not one of them anymore.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

You’re very correct Nage, people have no patience. Many don’t even seem to know what it is anymore. They forget that Rome was not built in a day. The same goes for any form of entertainment, video games especially.

Well, being patient towards a game might hold true with games which are advertised as an early access title, but for complete titles some companies just push it too far.

Games aren’t made like they are used to, only a few companies test and polish their game properly. Basically someone somewhere pushed the game before it was ready.

Building games takes years so they should have taken the time needed to polish it properly than release it half baked.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

You’re very correct Nage, people have no patience. Many don’t even seem to know what it is anymore. They forget that Rome was not built in a day. The same goes for any form of entertainment, video games especially.

People must take into account that unlike more traditional MMO’s Gw2 does not rake in a colossal sum of cash every month thus allowed gigantic development teams to work the way the do

its simply a trade off that we have to live with

I much prefer to play Guildwars 2 and wait for these kind of improvements instead of being forced to pay a monthly subscription fee and get them sooner

at least I wont have my game rights removed when I can’t afford a monthly sub that one week

What the problem really is, is simply people feel too entitled and ask for too much in too short a time frame
Guild wars 2 gives you hell of a lot for a one time purchase MMO

Flytrap.8075:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

You’re very correct Nage, people have no patience. Many don’t even seem to know what it is anymore. They forget that Rome was not built in a day. The same goes for any form of entertainment, video games especially.

Especially bobblehead jokes.

At least the devs still have humor….. considering how the players treat them.

You’re very correct Nage, people have no patience. Many don’t even seem to know what it is anymore. They forget that Rome was not built in a day. The same goes for any form of entertainment, video games especially.

I think the update is a good start too but as cesmode has pointed out a lot of this stuff has been a very long time in coming. Some people aren’t patient enough to let a game develop at its own pace, which is what all MMOs need.

I’m sure that in other new MMOs there’ll be a ton of problems after launch (there always is) and I’m sure it’ll take years to get those problems fixed.