Guild Wars 2

@kuittaa.7360

You needed to add some shinies in the dialogue there. Awesome stuff.

Anet: hai gaisz, we want you to preorder a bag of stuff. We have three different deals!

Players: oh, wow?

Anet: yeah! It is so awesome. First bag of stuff costs 50!

Players: hmm sounds pricey, what’s in it?

Anet: stuff! It is awesome!

Players: ok, what about the other two bags?

Anet: well, second bag contains stuff and fluff. And it costs 1,5 times as much as first bag of stuff.

Players: … and the last one?

Anet: the last one, ok, that’s the most awesome. If contains stuff and FLUFF! With capitals! And it is very cheap, only twice the price of first bag, but the FLUFF is easily worth of all that extra.

Players: ok. But could you tell a bit more about the stuff in the bags?

Anet: well, for starters, we’re excited about the stuff and it will be awesome. But the biggest thing is that… You will get the core game for FREE!

Players: but we already have the core game, so surely we can give it to our friends so they can try out the game?

Anet: no, because the FREE core game is linked with stuff! It can’t be taken away because reasons. But the stuff is going to be awesome. And let’s not forget the fluff, or the FLUFF in most expensive bag of stuff.

Players: that sounds pretty … dumb.

Anet: but think about all the stuff! And also, you may or may not receive FREE feature updates! We can’t tell you anything really yet, but we’re very excited about it all.

Players: ok, but when do we get our bags of stuff?

Anet: we can’t tell you yet, other than when they are ready.

Players: will it be next month? This Fall? This year? Next year?

Anet: only thing we can say is that we will deliver all awesome bags of stuff once they are ready.

Arthier.9521:

There are so many haters in Gw2 community, stop complaining, it would have cost the same without the core for free for new players.

Except that would not have cost the same. It’s a value bundle, and you can be sure that Anet’s financial wizards worked hard to calculate a price they could push this bundle at to absorb the cost of the so called “free” core game. It’s the same as every buy 2, get one free deals you see in stores.

And this “deal” is even better for Anet, because not only are they selling the core game bundled to new customers at a discount, but existing customers are paying for it and not even getting it. We’re expected to just hand Anet money that that is 100% profit for them, and get a slap in the face in return.

Arthier.9521:

There are so many haters in Gw2 community, stop complaining, it would have cost the same without the core for free for new players. This community has to agree to the fact that we all win with this, we have our expansion and they have the entire game, which would increase the number of people who play it, so more money for Anet and better content in the future. I know this is difficult, but you will get over it, gokitten, Anet is doing alright, just buy it or dont if you dont want to, but dont claim more than they offer, you know where the door is. Anyway… get over this and stop complaining.

Haters?
Complaining?
Have you seen the earnings report for GW2?

Arthier.9521:

There are so many haters in Gw2 community, stop complaining, it would have cost the same without the core for free for new players. This community has to agree to the fact that we all win with this, we have our expansion and they have the entire game, which would increase the number of people who play it, so more money for Anet and better content in the future. I know this is difficult, but you will get over it, gokitten, Anet is doing alright, just buy it or dont if you dont want to, but dont claim more than they offer, you know where the door is. Anyway… get over this and stop complaining.

Just because you’re happy to spend more than you should over something , or that you are ok with your money being less valuable than that of another customer, doesn’t mean we are the same.

I value my money and I will spend it once I see I’m being treated fairly.

I will let you know that i am not the PC player that most are. Just a real simple person with simple thoughts, that does not imply that i am stupid. I have read a lot of these comments here and i see the anger and the offense that has been taken from the anet “proposed expansion” and i hear it in my friends voices when we talk. My husband and I have played GW2 for going on 3 years and have purchased the game for a friend.
We will not be purchasing the expansion with base game because we cannot afford to pay for something we already have. Especially since we completed the story content that was to open HoT content, if completed before January 19th. Maybe my understanding was off, or what ever, that is on me,, NP, good with it. We were looking forward to new maps and content, but A new map and things we really do not use.. nahhhhhhh. We will wait and see what happens. I will say i am kinda disappointed with the build up to what is now viewed as a total let down. 7 of us came from a different “free” game, and it may be that we will look for something different. As for my husband and I, we will let you know that this “upgrade” is not worth our hard earned money, nor worth the anger that anet has generated with veteran players. I hope that an suitable compromise can be attained that is a really decent balance for everyone.. no one likes to feel like something left behind the north end of a south bound mule.

This is bad sales techniques. Far more money and sales would be made via the following solution (prices not included but would be cheaper).

1. Standard Expansion HoT WITHOUT core game.
2. Deluxe Expansion HoT WITHOUT core game.
3. Ultimate Expansion WITHOUT core game.
option 4 for new players.
4. Any of the above options WITH core game at 50% discount.
Simple to implement and means far higher sales than there will be at this rate. Happier Player Community too.

a tick box for the core game means emailing a voucher to get the core game at 50% reduction depending on the core game pack you wish for.

JohnnyS.1460:

Finally some official word from the devs…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZspKoupWAY

I can’t stop laughing. I gonna pay for this instead of the expansion pack lol.

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

To clarify: $50 is the price of the expansion. We included the core game as a free bonus to make it easier for new players to get into it.

I think that this is great for new players! However I think this is inconsiderate to everyone else. Especially if what we expect is true, and that is that HoT, being an expansion, will be smaller content wise than the original game at launch. Meaning that we are paying more for an expansion of lesser content than we would pay for the original of greater content now.

Even if that’s not true, I think it would have been a far better idea to offer a Hot upgrade to existing accounts for say.. $35 bucks for the standard. Then offer the expansion with the core game bundle for $50 or $60 for the standard edition.

I think that sounds pretty fair to all parties involved.

Random.4691:

Rhonin Greymane.8752:

A simple point people don’t seem to understand is that the core game inclusion isn’t influencing the price in any way… it’s just something they threw in so new players that missed the previous sales aren’t stuck behind a huge paywall. They just got lucky to get the game at a lower price than others(free of charge in this case) the same way people got it for 75% less during the recent sales but nobody raised any pitchforks then even though they should have, according to the logic the complaining follows. The expansion itself costs 50$, you’d be paying that regardless of core game inclusion. Nobody is forcing you to pay extra for something you already have. Think of it as a 100% discount product you don’t have to put in your basket separately.
As for the pricing itself, $40 to $50 is just standard pricing for MMO expansions. And saying there’s not enough content to justify the price isn’t valid because we don’t know how much content there actually is. Which is where the magic of pre-purchasing kicks in… you don’t have to buy it now if you don’t feel you know enough. Pre-purchasing is an optional gesture of faith from the consumers. The game didn’t release yet. Anet isn’t demanding that we pay for the game now and then releasing it in a week or two from now. The game is several months from being ready. In fact, Anet isn’t demanding anything and people are hatemongering for no real reason. The game isn’t going live with just the things that were revealed up until now, and I don’t know why people are acting like it is. There’s still months of reveals ahead of us. Just stop with the pointless, and frankly baseless anger and hatred.

That is what they are telling you and your buying into it. They have people that crunch numbers, that is their job, you can sure as heck bet your butt that they took into account the value of the core game and added it to the price tag. It would be idiotic for them to not do this. It helps them justify the $50 price tag even if they tell you it doesn’t.

Like I have said before, if you buy a meal from McDonalds they may tell you the fries are basically free but in actuality they have taken into consideration the value of each part of that meal, right down to the paper wrap around the straw.

Reminds me of the deal I just got on new tires. Buy 3 get one free !!
Oh wait the free 4th tires price was absorbed into the cost of the other three.

Rich Fuel.7253:

As much as i think they are being unreasonble for not being able to buy the expension for even 45 usd + char slot…..
I’m still buying the 99$ one cuz nothing in the world will give me as much entertainment as this product at this price

Don’t forget to buy ur very own pet rock!

Vayne.8563:

Yep, bought the Ultimate edition and so did my wife. My son will be buying it closer to launch.

You bought it first for you and your wife and not for your Son you are some kitten kitten parents! lol

bubalu.8301:

Alexxander.8306:

Give them to veterans for the new class. Give those of us who were conned by the FAQ something as compensation for the damages (as we did not have the play time to justify parity with veterans), and leave the base version as it is. This is well within their power.

You still need GW2 to play HoT. Most people have been playing GW2 for a long time. Just because Anet is including GW2 with HoT does not mean you or any veteran player has suffered any actual damages.

Nice try Anet.
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/False+Advertising

“Proof Requirement
To establish that an advertisement is false, a plaintiff must prove five things:

(1) a false statement of fact has been made about the advertiser’s own or another person’s goods, services, or commercial activity; (FAQ said “BUY GW2 NOW!! U NEED IT FOR EXPANSHUN!!”)

(2) the statement either deceives or has the potential to deceive a substantial portion of its targeted audience; (Anyone during the time the FAQ was active)

(3) the deception is also likely to affect the purchasing decisions of its audience;
(Do I even need to explain this one again?)

(4) the advertising involves goods or services in interstate commerce; and
(Not relevant afaik)

(5) the deception has either resulted in or is likely to result in injury to the plaintiff. The most heavily weighed factor is the advertisement’s potential to injure a customer. [I]The injury is usually attributed to money the consumer lost through a purchase that would not have been made had the advertisement not been misleading. [/I] False statements can be defined in two ways: those that are false on their face and those that are implicitly false.

"

Granted, they are refunding accounts purchased within the last 30 days. But the FAQ went up before 30 days ago. This doesn’t cover the greasy activity of showing off the Revenant then saying “delete ur toon or pay up lol”. But between the two, I think the FAQ scandal is far more important.

temerity.7824:

Basically, in this thread: Entitled people whining that new players are getting the game cheaper than they got it 3 years akitten

ay let’s clarify: That’s two totally differents situations.

I already brought the game at 60$ & enjoyed it.
Then a new offer directed at new players comes they sell the game at 10$.
I’m not eligible & not interested because I already own it.

Now our situation:
I already brought the game at 60$ I played it for 5K hours.
I’m waiting for the expansion.
Anet releases a selling offer for the expansion adressed to new players and existing players .
Except that the offer is amazing for new players and seems like a ripoff for existing players .

To me is like Anet says :
You are a newplayer you can have a freebie + the expansion.
You are an existing player , you are not eligible for a freebie. thx for your support.

That’s more akin to disrespecting the existing player base.

bubalu.8301:

Alexxander.8306:

Give them to veterans for the new class. Give those of us who were conned by the FAQ something as compensation for the damages (as we did not have the play time to justify parity with veterans), and leave the base version as it is. This is well within their power.

You still need GW2 to play HoT. Most people have been playing GW2 for a long time. Just because Anet is including GW2 with HoT does not mean you or any veteran player has suffered any actual damages.

Yet another freshly made Anet damage control account.. This is just getting pathetic.

I want to add my voice to the chorus of dissent. I would have pre-purchased the Legendary Edition without a second thought, but the whole principle of the thing has made me decide not to pre-purchase until ArenaNet makes some changes.

The whole ordeal feels like ArenaNet told me and my friends they don’t need our business and to kitten off. The expansion is expensive as is, but asking us to buy another character slot on top of that is an insult to injury. Then to turn around and dangle it in the collectors edition (because you know we need the charcacter slot) was a scumbag move.

On top of that I bought the game as a gift for a number of people because I was told that HoT would require the core game, but then they turn around and include it in the expansion. To make it worse, they claim it’s included free… But where is my extra copy of the guild wars 2 core? So as Far as I’m concerned you lost the high ground in claiming it’s an added bonus. It’s just now HoT is included in the core game and you want all the veteran players to buy it again.

Perhaps its some upper management playing with spreadsheets that brought us to this… Where ArenaNet is asking everybody to buy the game twice, provide no expansion only option, and then nickel and dime us for character slots to play the new class.

Well to that I say ArenaNet needs to take this backlash and use it to fight the management. It doesn’t take much to fix this. Give us an additional character slot with the basic expansion. Acknowledge you asked people to buy core game before buying the expansion, then give everyone who owns the core game like $20 in gems rather than discounting the price.

That is it. That is all you need to do. Give the expansion slot to the Lowest package, and if people already own the game, give them like $20 worth of gems as a “rebate” on already owning the core game. If you do this, I’ll pre-order the Legendary Edition.

If not, there are plenty of games out there that have gone free to play I can move on to.

Hammersmash Ureface.2650:

Alexxander.8306:

Hammersmash Ureface.2650:

Day 3 of the Siege of Thorns. Keep at ‘em, they’re weakening!

No loyal veteran customer base should be reduced to groveling for a fair deal. That’s what’s happening here. Instead of just giving us the two slots with standard, just like they did for EoTN, they have everyone begging for just one. Then you have the absolute victims who are doing anything they can to justify their enjoyment of the beating.

Consumerist Stockholm Syndrome.

Then there are the users like me who will happily give the money to Anets competition. Anet love ultimatums, as do I in cases like this, for consumers that will flee to the other great mmos coming out there will be lots of developers happy to take Anets business.

I think they are gravely misjudging the pulling power of Fallout and FF….At the very least..Not MMO’s but amazing franchises with new stuff coming that costs money. The same money they could choose to spend on HoT, but might not because those other franchises, oooooh….

This, $50 is a lot to ask post e3. Anet lost their reputation this week, so loyalty is out. Now its down to brass tax, what does this title have to offer over the competition?

Fallout 4, Heavensword, Black Desert Online ($50 will get u some srs kitten), Doom, Final Fantasy 15, Elder Scrolls Online, WildStar, Star Citizen, Elite Dangerous.

Anet needs to sweeten this deal, Maguuma won’t cut it (I was in beta), and this slap in the face is like telling me to go to BDO or just use this for Fallout 4.

bubalu.8301:

I don’t see any slight to the “veteran” player base. If the pricing was $50 for the expansion and $60 for both, I don’t think anyone would complain.

If Anet does give into all the hoopla, I think those who have pre-purchased HoT (let’s call them the HoT veteran player base) should get even more out of principle. Otherwise, Anet is insulting the HoT veteran player base.

The solution is simple, character slots.

Give them to veterans for the new class. Give those of us who were conned by the FAQ something as compensation for the damages (as we did not have the play time to justify parity with veterans), and leave the base version as it is. This is well within their power.

Day 3 of the Siege of Thorns. Keep at ‘em, they’re weakening!

No loyal veteran customer base should be reduced to groveling for a fair deal. That’s what’s happening here. Instead of just giving us the two slots with standard, just like they did for EoTN, they have everyone begging for just one. Then you have the absolute victims who are doing anything they can to justify their enjoyment of the beating.

Consumerist Stockholm Syndrome.

geekgirlonezeroone.1793:

I think it’s poor policy and bad decision making to offer the core game for free with an expansion pack that shares the same value as the core game. It immediately comes across as a sham and that the players are really paying for the core game with a free expansion with none of the benefits that comes with buying a 2nd core game.

Exactly. I’d be fine with it, if they dropped the price tag for the expansion and offered it as an upgrade, and also provided an alternative bundle that includes the original game as well at a reduced price. Because then we’d see a clear difference between buying just the expansion, and buying the expansion + the full game. But when the price of the expansion is equal to the full game, and the full game is supposedly included for free along with it…. that sounds very dodgy.

I also think the price is too high, compared to how large I expect this expansion to be (given the limited info they’ve released). 30 bucks would be more reasonable, and it better include one free extra character slot.

If they are going to ask the price of a full game, it better also contain 5 character slots, and additional bank slots, like with a full game. They know we’ll need an extra character slot to enjoy the new profession anyway, so that quietly raises the price tag of the expansion if a character slot is not included. Did they think we wouldn’t notice?

That’s like selling a new roof for a car, for the price of a new car, but with a free car included (unless you already have a car, but its still the same price), and you don’t get the wheels. See how this comes across Anet?

RDarken.2495:

This is just silly – you got to enjoy the game for almost four full years

GW2 has not been out for 4 years. It hasn’t even been out for 3. You don’t know what you’re talking about.

I think it’s poor policy and bad decision making to offer the core game for free with an expansion pack that shares the same original retail value as the core game. Considering that the core game is now worth half of its original retail value it immediately comes across as a sham and that the players are really paying for the core game and expansion with none of the benefits that comes with buying a 2nd core game.

This is what’s confusing and frustrating a lot of players. Saying you just want the expansion pack separately won’t cost you any less because according to ANet it’s the expansion you’re paying for, so you’d still be paying £34 for HoT with or without the core game. To me that is massively overpriced for what little is being offered.

Old experiment with capucin monkeys, both get the same task, they have to return a stone. When both get a cucumber nothing is wrong, BUT wwhen 1 gets a grape and the other gets a cucumber all hell breaks loose.

If you have 2 ppl do they same they expecty the same reward, This goes for a huge amount of species on this planet.

PPL have bought seocnd vanilla accounts before , to give away or to farm laurels and pay for their legendaries/ armors and so on.

When you give half the people the basic version and HoT they are happy
When you give veterans only HoT they feel like they get the cucumber.

SO give all ppl who buy this an added serial for the vanilla account. Problem solved.

You commerce ppl made this happen, you deal with it.

I would like to post a link to a thread that may give some insight in why people are so mad:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Reason-why-people-are-mad-Fairness/first#post5168853

Here’s the gist:
It is not greed or entitlement, but genuine moral outrage at unequal pricing.

Group 1 (who have nothing) pay $50 and receive A + B.
Group 2 (who already own A) pay $50 and receive B.
These two groups pay the same price, but they get unequal value in return. This touches people at a deep emotional level: “That is unfair!”

So why did ArenaNet not see this coming? Because pricing and sales policy are very rational activities, while morality is a very irrational, emotional thing. No, they’re not evil or immoral. It was a blind spot.

Arena Net your marketing this time really make me disappoint as people who follow your game since GW1 this sale strategy is unacceptable it show me how you treat your customer which not only make me not buy this Expansion but also all your future product no matter how good it is. but i found some interesting tactics might save your reputation.

I wonder if I currently have GW2 standard version if i spend 2000 Gems which estimate about 25-30$ to upgrade my account to deluxe do I also get HoT expension?

if not then it maybe only way to make it fair for exist player if you also give them HoT when upgrade and give HoT as free upgrade for everyone who already bought GW2 Deluxe edition or Highter version.

If you still try to keep up with current sale strategy then i have nothing to say but
Good Bye…

RDarken.2495:

Chasind.3128:

KPOBb.8476:

I don’t get the Veteran entitlement position.

There is no entitlement. But for those of us who have already owned gw2, payed 50-75$ for an entire game are having to buy the entire game again + HoT expansion for 50$ which is a slap in the face. There is no stand alone version of just HoT to buy. You have to re-buy the entire game + HoT. Atleast in GW1, the expansions itself were entire games & it was worth the extra 30-40$ bc you were automatically given an extra char slot. (except for eye of the north. )
We don’t really even know if 50$ for HoT is even worth it. Anet is just money hungry & it shows. They don’t give players who already own gw2 the option to just buy the HoT “expansion”.

Okay, but ANet said $50 is the cost of the expansion and that the base game is being included for free so new players do not have to buy both. So the argument that the cost includes both is invalid – and the posts accusing ANet of lying are kind of silly.

Wrong. The core game should always cost more than it’s preceding expansion, unless the expansion dwarfs the core game in overall content. It’s a safe assumption HoT will not come close to matching half of what the core game offered at release. And that’s fine, since it’s an expansion. But should players have to spend more for HoT than they did for GW2’s initial release?

RDarken.2495:

Factotum.2093:

Third, saying “the base game is included for free” is just a lame attempt by the marketing department to rephrase “you must buy the base game again even if you’ve already bought it and played through all of it”. It’s frankly insulting to existing players, and shows the same kind of attitude that cost Blizzard several thousand customers (when they started adding “free extras” for new players, and making existing players pay more for them). But even Blizzard had the basic decency of selling stand-alone expansions at a price lower than the “battle chest” (game + expansion package).

Conspiracy theory hollaaa

Also, as posted above, GW2 was $60 at launch, so it’s really quite frankly believable that the expansion is $50 on its own – ie. $10 less than the base game as at launch (which is what people are bellyaching over in the first place).

ReaverKane.7598:

Its simple math. New players who by choice decided not to touch GW2 so far will get GW2+ HoT for 50USD.
Old players who have been supporting the game, and are the ONLY reason there’s even an expansion will have to pay more than double for the same content.
Fair? I think not.
And yeah we got to play it for longer? So what? Again it was their choice, and pretty much to me Arena Net is rewarding those who chose NOT to support their game early on.

This is just silly – you got to enjoy the game for almost four full years – you got what you paid for. Don’t be jelly that new players only have to buy the expansion.

True. i got what i payed for on the core game, but i don’t feel that the expansion will be worth the 50USD price tag, not with what they’ve announced so far.
Add that to their attitude towards existing players, makes me not want to do something i had planned to do.
Sure it might be silly to ask a company to have the basic ammount of decency and fair play to their community.
Maybe my standards are too high for what is acceptable behaviour. But then again, i’m not saying you’re wrong i’m right. I’m just syaing i’m nto alone in my JUSTIFIED outrage.
Sure like Bog Otter said its a matter of perception, but news flash:Your reality is what you perceive. So to me i’m being ill regarded (not for the first time, i’ll add) by a company and a game i’ve been supporting for years.

Regina Buenaobra.6193:

To clarify: $50 is the price of the expansion. We included the core game as a free bonus to make it easier for new players to get into it.

I may not know much about economics but I do remember one thing “there is no such thing as a free lunch” so you can tell us that the price was always going to be 50$ and they just decided to throw in the core game out of the kindness of your heart, but I find that impossible to believe. Honestly, that’s the most insulting aspect of this whole mess to me.

Giving the core game away as a way to get more people to buy the expansion, great idea, I have no problem with that. Making people who already have the game pay for the core game again, not so great. Telling those people they are not paying for the core game when they really are. That’s where I get annoyed.

I guess what it really come down to is worth. I’m really hoping there is going to be much more than what I’ve heard included in this expansion because right now I can’t begin to comprehend what justifies the 50$ price tag.

Ok this is my frist post ever and I will try to say it a way all can u understand… I don’t care and think it is nice that anet wants to help new players have a better time with the game by adding core for free… I don’t care that the price is $50 Us… The part that hurts me (and I will not speak for anyone else) is that Anet has went as far as to help out new people that have not supported them in the past as I have supported them for about 10 years on GW1 and GW2… To give a bonus to the new players is a nice thing to do but not offering those of us (even those that just bought the game to be ready for HoT) something in return sense we wont get the core game again is not a way to thank your current players… SO all I wanted to say is Anet I like the way you are taking MMORPG but I ask that you respect Me and all the other 4 million that helped you get there as much as we would love the new players or fans with you respect us as well … This has upset me and I am sure many others and we hope there is some way to make amends….