Guild Wars 2

JoelTang.3680:

Lets not forget the network effect of having new players. There is value in a large player base that benefits players. If you consider the fact that the free core game is in order to facilite new players, it is a kind of win-win. That being said, I am quite surprized that the expansion doesn’t by default give a few, not just one, character slots. Not very good IMO.

If they really wanted to expand their player base, why not let veterans have free core game copies, too? As a veteran, I would happily hand off my “free” copy of the core game to a friend who was considering the game.

As it stands, however, I would tell him either to wait and see how this issue shakes out, or to look for another game.

GeekDavid.2786:

“Dust in the wind… all we are is dust in the wind…”

Not sure how many here are old enough to remember that song, tho.

Plenty of us, I think. Also, I appreciate your voice of reason here and your ability to make your points in clearly legible text. Thank you.

Iason Evan.3806:

I am just happy that I found a crazy Asura scientist to create me a rocket to travel to new star systems and different worlds. After tomorrow it just may be a case of, “I’ll see ya when I see ya.”

Beautiful, just beautiful.

Been playing this franchise for 10 years. I own multiple accounts of every game in the GW franchise. I made a few decisions after thinking about it for the last few months.

1.) I will play with the new trait system tomorrow. I haven’t been playing for the last 3 months or so. Colin’s post about skill points/hero points was good though. It’s a good first step to addressing concerns. If I like the new trait system, it could sway my decisions on playing the game.

2.) HoT information. I want more information on HoT before I decide to pre-order I bought a second copy of the game a few months ago when it was on sale to save me money for when HoT comes out. It’s actually going to cost me more money now because they changed their mind on the necessity of owning the base game. That is a big deal to me and a big knock against them. The people signing off on this stuff aren’t paying the sort of attention that the customers need. It’s a gaffe. Is it forgivable? Sure, if they are open-handed about the reparations.

If I don’t like the new trait system though, I just bought a few MMOs to diversify the MMO portfolio as it were. I am done with locking myself in one game and having my gaming time be dictated by shifting “Pillars” or “Core Principles” of game development. Devs switch that stuff whenever they want to and don’t tell you they are shifting it. By me choosing to play 4-5 different MMOs I can cherry pick the experiences I want to have and if devs decide to go off their original manifesto visions and core design philosophies, I just jump to the next title in my MMO kitten nal.

Tyria’s been a great place to spend the bulk of my time. I am just happy that I found a crazy Asura scientist to create me a rocket to travel to new star systems and different worlds. After tomorrow it just may be a case of, “I’ll see ya when I see ya.”

Anet really is showing how much it cares for its fan/player base with this lack of…anything. 8 blog posts in two days about how they’re making things “better” but absolutely no response while thousands of people are screaming for answers. The only forum post by anet staff has been an unidentified moderator, closing a thread that was asking for answers. Yeah, they care.
/forum

synfullydevine.3642:

mrstealth.6701:

Shinzan.2908:

synfullydevine.3642:

Think it’s more of misrepresenting the product

I
They actually had to change their FAO because of this, used to said you’d need to buy the core game, now it says you get it for free.

Misrepresentation of a product in a manner that could effect purchasing decisions is the legal definition of false advertisement.

Telling people (via the original FAQ), that the core game was required before purchasing HoT would certainly effect their decision to buy the core game.

Title 15 U.S. Code Chapter 2 Subchapter 1 Section 55 Additional definitions

(a) False advertisement
(1) The term “false advertisement” means an advertisement, other than labeling, which is misleading in a material respect; and in determining whether any advertisement is misleading, there shall be taken into account (among other things) not only representations made or suggested by statement, word, design, device, sound, or any combination thereof, but also the extent to which the advertisement fails to reveal facts material in the light of such representations or material with respect to consequences which may result from the use of the commodity to which the advertisement relates under the conditions prescribed in said advertisement, or under such conditions as are customary or usual. No advertisement of a drug shall be deemed to be false if it is disseminated only to members of the medical profession, contains no false representation of a material fact, and includes, or is accompanied in each instance by truthful disclosure of, the formula showing quantitatively each ingredient of such drug.

Ty for opening up that business law book. It’s not false advertising though if they accept refund s sold to the customers who actually were affected by it. In which is handled individually

Does it count as a refund when you have to forfeit all gems on the account?

Shinzan.2908:

synfullydevine.3642:

Think it’s more of misrepresenting the product

They actually had to change their FAO because of this, used to said you’d need to buy the core game, now it says you get it for free.

Misrepresentation of a product in a manner that could effect purchasing decisions is the legal definition of false advertisement.

Telling people (via the original FAQ), that the core game was required before purchasing HoT would certainly effect their decision to buy the core game.

Title 15 U.S. Code Chapter 2 Subchapter 1 Section 55 Additional definitions

(a) False advertisement
(1) The term “false advertisement” means an advertisement, other than labeling, which is misleading in a material respect; and in determining whether any advertisement is misleading, there shall be taken into account (among other things) not only representations made or suggested by statement, word, design, device, sound, or any combination thereof, but also the extent to which the advertisement fails to reveal facts material in the light of such representations or material with respect to consequences which may result from the use of the commodity to which the advertisement relates under the conditions prescribed in said advertisement, or under such conditions as are customary or usual. No advertisement of a drug shall be deemed to be false if it is disseminated only to members of the medical profession, contains no false representation of a material fact, and includes, or is accompanied in each instance by truthful disclosure of, the formula showing quantitatively each ingredient of such drug.

Dawdler.8521:

Wolfeng.3784:

101 pages of people discussing the multiple issues surrounding the pre-order deal.
Multiple other threads, and yet Anet silence remains.

If a company can’t come up with an official statement after a week, I guess it’s time to pack and move to another game. Sad, I really loved this one.

You do realize that the Anet official statement is already in the thread, posted 5 days ago? Expansion is $50, period. Its the answer to the thread. Just because people dont like it or choose to ignore it doesnt make it any less of an official statement. What came after is as you said, 101 pages of people discussing stuff.

Ahh brave knight, lets clear some topics for you, since you haven’t been paying attention. I understand, being a knight and all must take a lot of your time.

*Problem number 1: *

They had a campaign that stated we need the core game to play HoT, that later changed to notify that HoT already has the core game included.

They had sales over a period of months on top of that initial statement.

The only “official” response for that was a forum post somewhere on this mess. That hasn’t even been made a stick, saying that they would refund. So far some people managed to get a refund from purchases made more than 30 days, while others didnt. Its incosistent.

And there’s no clear answer as to what happens to those accounts, since again, some said they would lose their accounts, while others kept. Again, incosistency.

*Problem number 2: *

Client 1 pays 50$ for a product and gets item X and Y. Item Y is free, so they say.
Client 2 pays 50$ for a product and gets item X. He can’t get item Y because he already owns. Where’s the freebie for client 2?

That lowers the value of any purchase, and make the deal look more appealing for only one of the clients.

*Problem number 3: *

There hasn’t been a great deal of features that made HoT look like its worth 50$. Guild halls? A new region? Elite specs that haven’t even been revealed yet? A new class that is still being worked on?
Not enough for some people, and for those, they can just wait and see. Easy.

Now brave knight, I hope that has cleared some stuff for you. And I hope you enjoy your next adventures in this land so full of trolls.

abc.5790:

Eurhetemec.9052:

abc.5790:

$50 expansion may seem expensive to some but it’s still very reasonable.

Very reasonable by what standard? It’s expensive for an expansion, period. It’s very expensive for an expansion that does not let you play all the content without deleting a character or buying a new slot for another $10.

I think it’s just your opinion that it’s “very reasonable”, not a fact so you may want to chew on that.

abc.5790:

Why does it bother “veterans” that new customers get the base for free? If you’re a so called veteran, you had a 3 year head start. You experienced content that’s now retired, content that will never be enjoyed by the new buyer.

Simple fairness when we’re paying money for something. It’s not complicated.

My bad, I didn’t know people on here were ignorant on the price ranges of gaming expansions. Is this your first game?

$50 is reasonable because it is within the range of a typical expansion.
$5000000000000000 is unreasonable though.

why do u even argue if u do not want to understand why veterans and others are upset? u like the deal ok thats fine and im glad u like it, but me and others arent.
i get that u are happy, but u cant change how we who are upset feel:

to ALL u white knights out there:

1. u cannot change how i feel about this deal
2. yes i have played the game for 3 years and so has my husband. and we invested way more than the initial price on this game and have always supported this game. so the argument about: well u had the game for free, now new players get it for free whats your issue? well u obviously dont want to understand the issue!

3 u can not force me to be quiet

4 u cant expect everyone to shut up and just accept things

5. as i have an opinion about the pricing, so do u. difference: im not trying to force my opinion on u. u wanna buy it at 50$ thats fine, enjoy! but i personally wont shut up, because i am unhappy and u cannot change this at all.

6. u are not anet and honestly, the only one who can change the way we who are upset feel is ANET and only ANET. white knights that call us names just make us even more upset.

Welcome to page 100 ladies and gentlemen, a quick reminder of the points being brought up so far:

1. It is felt by some that a character slot should have been included in all versions

2. The vanilla game bonus for new players, is lost to people who already own the game this is thought to be unfair. Either a separate key or a “gift” in kind (800gems/second char slot etc) is felt to be an acceptable compromise.

3. The price point on one or more versions is felt to be out of line with expectations/industry average. An increase in the value or decrease in the price is desired.

4. A change was made to the FAQ recently where it prior stated that GW2 was required to play HOT without any mention of the game being included in the bundle. This is felt to be a shady change, admission and/or discussion of this change by the devs is desired.

5. Key information relating to content/release dates etc is still unknown and some feel that this information is needed before they can commit to a purchase.

6. Again on communication, clear and open discussion of the above points with the Dev team is desired.

Some common counter points:

C1: “Just don’t buy it.”
A: Firstly there is a pre-order bonus which means waiting may not be an option. Secondly players WANT to give A-net their money but some would like a better deal/more information first, it is in their interest to discuss this.

C2: “Free”,
A: The game was buy to play with the advertisement of continued living story updates, it was not free it was paid for with the expectation of content updates.

C3: “look at x,y,z game”
A While comparison is useful, it is a discussion of the direction players want this game to go/operate not what other games have done in the past.

C4: “You guys are just being selfish/entitled/mean/greedy/stupid/etc/etc.”
A: This is not a discussion point it is just a statement of opinion backed up with nothing, if you cannot contribute meaningfully please do not.

C5: “You can just convert gold to gems/buy gems for x.”
A: It takes time or money to carry out these actions, this leads to an opportunity cost which is what the players want to avoid through this discussion.

You may now continue discussing.

Should it not have been,

‘….We included the core game as a free bonus for new players, to make it easier for them to get into’.

The official line seems the wrong way round to me. A juxtaposition error. Also the ‘it’ at the end isn’t necessary, ‘into’ more than suffices.

DieselFueled.3257:

Phoenixlin.8624:

Biohazard.7523:

warbignime.4610:

The people complaining on forum, I can guarantee you most of them will but HoT they second they hear people talking about it after release. This is what happens every times.

They wont buy HOT because they dont have money. If you cant afford something you wont buy it. Its simple. People who have money dont give a kitten about the price.

I am probably earning more money than your whole family kiddo. But it doesn’t make me kim kardashian that throws money every single, overpriced, idiotic stuff unlike you.

If true, you’re extremely wealthy and complaining about 10 bucks. From a company that has given you a mmo for 3 years with no monthly payments or pay 2 win features. You’re that wealthy and you fail to see the value in HoT?

A wealthy person typically gets wealthy by not wasting money.

The ups and downs of GW2

Manasa Devi.7958:

Have you lost touch with reality?

I don’t think he has ever been when I see all his answers.

Here’s hoping that there have been some constructive conversations at Anet/NCSoft the past few days and they are ready to do something to stem the negativity today – or at latest, by mid week.

It seems that the vast majority of people agree that $50 is probably a fair price, but that the pre order program was communicated and executed very poorly. We are used to Anet treating customers very well – better than most other MMOs treat their customers. This really felt like a step in the opposite direction.

Again, hopefully, we will see something this week, even if it is as simple as adding the equivalent of a free character slot to all pre order accounts (which I think is a must-happen at this point).

To clarify, I’ve already bought my copy of HOT, but many of my guildees and friends have not – saying they are waiting to see if Anet does “the right thing.” This makes this topic very important to me as, without my guildees and friends, the game will not be as much fun for me.

Let’ review.

When Arena Net announced the pre-purchase of HoT the community was divided. Those who accepted and those who didn’t. Here are the problems:

1. The price – The expansion costs 45 euro. If you don’t have the core game you get it for free (or so they say). When the game came out it also cost about the same. So why does the expansion cost so much if it is only an expansion?

2. The amount of content – HoT < GW2. There is simply no way that an expansion has the same amount of content as the core game (without updates). We know of a few new features and nothing else. That brings us to…

3. Lack of information – Most of us can’t just buy the expansion for such a high price without any information on what we are buying. At least this can be solved by simply waiting.

4. False advertising – Before announcing HoT Arena Net told new players that they have to have the core game in order to play the expansion. The made people buy the game in order to get into the world of GW2 so they can be prepared when the expansion comes out. They put the game on sales throughout the past year to make the game more appealing. Now people who bought the game more than 30 days ago (or didn’t use the site) can’t get their money back in order to buy the expansion and get the game for free.

5. What current players get – We don’t know exactly what the expansion will include. All we get are sneak previews. But we do know that there will be a new profession. But we don’t get an extra character slot with the standard pack. We have to either: already have a free slot; buy and additional slot; delete a character; in order to play the new profession. That is a slap in the face for people who spent time developing all their characters and can’t afford to spend even more money for a new slot.

6. Poor communication – This has been going on for days (almost a week) and there has been no response what so ever on the issues that people have.

(feel free to add if I’ve missed something)

So what do we want? Well I can’t speak for everyone on this but what I want for my 45 euro of unknown content is: a character slot, some gems. That’s it.

Straylight.7529:

They are not getting HoT for free. They have to pay 50$ just like everyone else. They are simply getting the core game as a free bonus IF they purchase HoT.

Why don’t I get a second copy of the base game then? That’s anet just trying to misdirect us by changing the wording.

I paid full price for GW2 and got the base game, now I have to pay full price again to get HoT.

New players will pay full price for the base game and also get HoT. BS.

DeadReaper.6527:

ANET deliver new content every 2 week or so, with HOT you will simply get the core update + the hot update, that make it 2 free content update.

I personnally bough the ultimate pack, until now ANET delivered great content continuously

No they don’t and they haven’t done that for over a year. In the 15 or so months since LS1 ended we’ve had 8 LS2 episodes, 2 feature packs and some holiday events with long, long breaks between them. There has been no new content release in just over 5 months (no release at all since January 18th) and it’s unlikely there will be one between now and the expansion pack’s release (whenever that is). The update tomorrow is unlikely to bring new content. The systems they’re adding or changing tomorrow aren’t content: content is things you do in the game. For example, the camera changes were very, very welcome but you don’t “play” the camera.

If you’re happy to buy it then that’s fine, others aren’t and they should make their voices heard. Some of us are invested in this game, I’ve spent hundreds of euros on it so far, and I’m willing to buy the next expansion but I’d like to see ArenaNet address our concerns before I’m going to spend another cent.

If the people complaining here get ArenaNet to change the offer for the better then you’ll benefit too. If they add stuff to the packages you’ll get them for your ultimate package too.

DeadReaper.6527:

ANET deliver new content every 2 week or so, with HOT you will simply get the core update + the hot update, that make it 2 free content update.

lol, they haven’t delivered any “content” for months now… and even when they were “delivering” content in the form of living story episodes, you seem to be forgetting the weeks long “breaks” they were taking

Frediosz.2718:

Why there is no precise information about what HoT will add and change ?

We have little to no information about what’s coming and yet they first sell explain later.
No information about content, about maps, about anything (well those sneak peeks are not enough) hell even release date is unknown…

You don’t jump into water when you don’t know how deep it is…

Why they keep ignoring this problem – this won’t fix itself.
Silence ain’t helpful here.

Pretty much why pre-purchasing may be a bad idea – not saying either way as we have too little to go on. At the moment, as the quote goes, “all is vain”.

As every GW2 players BFF Treahearne likes to day: “This won’t end well.”

Why there is no precise information about what HoT will add and change ?

We have little to no information about what’s coming and yet they first sell explain later.
No information about content, about maps, about anything (well those sneak peeks are not enough) hell even release date is unknown…

You don’t jump into water when you don’t know how deep it is…

Why they keep ignoring this problem – this won’t fix itself.
Silence ain’t helpful here.

matrix seishin.5312:

Pifil.5193:

I don’t think they will post a reply. I think that they’re hoping that the upcoming patch will defuse the situation for them. They’re hoping that people will become distracted by something in the patch and go post about that instead. They may post a reply if that doesn’t happen.

…

I can’t get distracted with new patch content if I don’t play. And I urge everyone to stop playing. Just to see what happens.

Not a bad idea. This issue has kind of “soured” the game for me somewhat anyway, these days I’m pretty much only logging in for the daily rewards and to mine the LS1 nodes in my home instance. I think I can do without those for a while.

Thank the gods for Steam sales.

Pifil.5193:

I don’t think they will post a reply. I think that they’re hoping that the upcoming patch will defuse the situation for them. They’re hoping that people will become distracted by something in the patch and go post about that instead. They may post a reply if that doesn’t happen.

…

I can’t get distracted with new patch content if I don’t play. And I urge everyone to stop playing. Just to see what happens.

I don’t think they will post a reply. I think that they’re hoping that the upcoming patch will defuse the situation for them. They’re hoping that people will become distracted by something in the patch and go post about that instead. They may post a reply if that doesn’t happen.

Personally, I think they’re fools if they’re hoping it will all go away. These issues, all this discontent, is of their own making. They could regain a lot of good will if they address them head on and maybe they’re planning on doing just that, we’ll have to see but time is of the essence here.

All I can really do is speak for myself, of course, but I for one will not be buying anything until this issue is resolved and they start to share some real details about the expansion (in particular both the scale of the expansion and a release date). Now, I have no problem spending money on this game, I’ve easily spent more than a subscription fees worth on gems in the last two and a half or so years. Character slots, bag slots, outfits, skins, bank tabs, collection expanders, 12 or so permanent harvesting tools, copper and silver fed salvaging kits, plain old gold, I’ve bought gems for all of them. A lot of those I bought on a whim and I have no regrets on doing that but I won’t spend any more money until they start addressing our concerns.

And adding playable content.

The problem is more to do with A-Net not treating all customers equally both new and existing. I think we all can appreciate that A-Net can not work or produce content pro-bono forever but that does not mean they should fleece us either, by delivering the Core Game for free for new account holders only and selling the HoT packages to BOTH groups for the same price the perception is that the existing customers are not being given the same value for money on the same deal. It does not matter whether the Core Game is priced in bundle terms at the free price point or not, the existing player base believe it still has a value.

Even disregarding the Core Game for Free issue, the price point values of the Standard/Deluxe versions are questionable with the Ultimate being perhaps the only price point actually approaching value for money.

1. Standard at £35
2. Deluxe at £60 with about £10 or less worth of substance and some fluff/kudos items
3. Ultimate at £80 with about £50 worth of substance and some fluff/kudos items

All versions with the Core Game (ROM Value £10 based on recent sales) to NEW account holders ONLY. This equates to in value for money terms…

1. HoT being at £20 for Ultimate for new account holders
2. HoT being at £25 for Standard for new account holders
3. HoT being at £30 for Ultimate for existing account holders
4. HoT being at £35 for Standard for existing account holders
5. HoT being at £40 for Deluxe for new account holders
6. HoT being at £50 for Deluxe for existing account holders

This changes slightly if the Fluff/Kudos items are truly worth £20/1600 Gems/200 Gold (based on GW2 exchange rates at last check) or more…

• Minature Revenant Rylock
• Revenant Finisher
• Mordremoth’s Bane Guild Hall Decoration
• Heart of Thorns Glider Skin

Ok, I have bought the HoT but that does not mean I am happy with the state of play nor consider it fair and reasonable. An equitable answer would be for A-Net to offer in-game content of substance as reasonable compensation to help balance the scales a bit. A suitable settlement in my mind would be something of the order of a character slot for ALL existing account holders that did not benefit from the Core Game allegedly being included as advertised – even just 400 Gems (or 50 Gold) to existing account holders might help to sooth the tempers of those that feel the state of play is unfair.

And WRT sales figures, a good will gesture that has only a notionally infinitely renewable non-capital cost impact now (e.g. GEMs) should not detrimentally effect the annual/quarterly sales figures (in fact it would probably do the opposite) but the absence of it will almost certainly have long term repercussions to profits received on such items in the future based on what I have been reading in this thread.

I was personally expecting thirty/thirty-five USD for the expansion and a character slot. I won’t buy the expansion until it’s proven to be worth the full fifty or if they lower the price. I would consider buying it off of what’s been revealed if the price is changed to thirty USD, or if it’s changed to forty USD and included 800 gems (equivalent to a character slot).

For the expansion to be worth the full fifty I expect a release date within a month, a massive information dump for all of the things they have yet to show, and enough content to justify the price (I felt that Eye of the North was an acceptable content to price ratio).

It’s unsettling to me that there hasn’t been an official response to this massive thread other than the “yes it’s fifty for the expansion alone” reply.

Scoundrel.2139:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/20130604134550-284615-15-statistics-that-should-change-the-business-world-but-haven-t

Excellent source, Scoundrel. I’m repeating this info below, for people who don’t wish to click the link. For those that want more data, the link sites statistical data sources for each item.

1. Price is not the main reason for customer churn, it is actually due to the overall poor quality of customer service.
2. A customer is 4 times more likely to defect to a competitor if the problem is service-related than price- or product-related.
3. The probability of selling to an existing customer is 60 – 70%. The probability of selling to a new prospect is 5-20%.
4. For every customer complaint there are 26 other unhappy customers who have remained silent.
5. A 2% increase in customer retention has the same effect as decreasing costs by 10%.

6. 96% of unhappy customers don’t complain, however 91% of those will simply leave and never come back.
7. A dissatisfied customer will tell between 9-15 people about their experience. Around 13% of dissatisfied customers tell more than 20 people.
8. Happy customers who get their issue resolved tell about 4-6 people about their experience.
9. 70% of buying experiences are based on how the customer feels they are being treated.
10. 55% of customers would pay extra to guarantee a better service.

11. Customers who rate you 5 on a scale from 1 to 5 are six times more likely to buy from you again, compared to ‘only’ giving you a score of 4.8.
12. It takes 12 positive experiences to make up for one unresolved negative experience.
13. A 5% reduction in the customer defection rate can increase profits by 5 – 95%.
14. It costs 6–7 times more to acquire a new customer than retain an existing one.
15. eCommerce spending for new customers is on average $24.50, compared to $52.50 for repeat customers.

Will we get to 5K responses without an official response??

I say yes

MMOGamer.6175:

mrstealth.6701:

MMOGamer.6175:

Here’s what I’m thinking. Somewhere in this thread there is a link from the Korean(IIRC?) securities/stock exchange which basically stated that 2 million copies of HoT have to be sold. Bundling the core game with HoT allows sales of the core game to be counted as HoT sales and vise versa which COULD NOT be done if the core game was a stand alone purchase.

That data stated what Anet would need to sell in order to meet their projected earnings. Which was 2 million sales at $50 each. Basically it’s the number of copies the firm thought Anet could push, and the price that would need to be in order to meet expectations.

Including the core game doesn’t impact the projection, it only gives the possibility to artificially inflate the number of products sold if they want to count it that way. That number isn’t all that important, as it has no impact on profits. If they were to actually count each HoT sale as 2 sales, 2 million copies would only meet 50% of their projected earnings.

But by bundling the core game, each sale is guaranteed to be a HoT sale INSTEAD of the GW2 core game standalone.

The only benefit there is that the bundled price is $10 higher than the standalone was before. In reality, the bundle isn’t going to mean much, as bundle or not, expansions are mostly purchased by existing players. Most of their potential new customers were already picked up during those 75% off sales, and the convention/marketing hype over the past months. There aren’t going to be many people left that care about getting the core game.

How many people that passed on GW2 at $10 are actually going to pay $50 for it because it’s getting a little more content?

What Anet has done is try to make a more tempting deal for people that are unlikely to buy GW2/HoT at all, while at the same time angering the people that were most likely to buy it.

If Anet wants to actually get more paying gem customers out of this, they should give existing players that free copy to gift to friends that are unsure about the game.