R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
If you talk to Kiel in the Crow’s Nest afterwards, she helps with the interpretation bit (at the moment I’m going to assume she is correct). Basically Thaumanova was used to study the energy circulating through the globe, which the Inquest at the time believed to be chaos energy, and which Scarlet believed to be dragon energy. Upon Scarlet’s arrival they ramped up their experiments, which, due to Thaumanova’s location, had adverse side effects- the meltdown.
I didn’t put too much stock into the white room- by Dessa’s dialogue it sounds like it wasn’t part of the reactor, but created by her attempts to get us out.
The anamoly was fascinating, doubly so since it’s possible that there’s a real world one that wasn’t destroyed. Don’t know what to make of it, though.
Has anyone gone through it in higher levels? The patch notes said there were alternate endings based on the levels, which I suspect have to do with the story-mode inaccessible dormitories.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
I’d say not, for one reason: she was stated during the Queen’s Jubilee to be hylek trained, which was the last thing she did before becoming Scarlet. Even if she did go back in time (something that may not actually be possible) it could have been no more than a few months before the experiment (accounting for the things that happened before QJ). That said, I think all these time-travel suspicions are just needlessly complicating the most likely truth- Scarlet doesn’t actually travel through time.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
I rather agree with perilisk on this one. There’s hardly anything special about a consultant that’s just one more member of a faceless organization.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
No one’s saying that she was there when Thaumanova blew, just that she used to work with some of the people who went on to work at Thaumanova. The date of the reactor explosion doesn’t really have any bearing on the date Dessa secluded herself within the Mists.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
The entire central area seems open to the sky. Still, I seem to have misremembered something about the overworld version of the place. I stand humbly corrected.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
I look forward to your new insights. There are three points of confusion for me.
1.) Why didn’t what she saw in her vision show her the ley lines?
2.) Did she cause the explosion or was she just there for it? Her dialog implies both.
3.) Was she there naturally, or did she travel back in time to get there?
Can’t say for the first question, but if you take a right upon entering the reactor area, there are two Inquest whose conversation states things only started going poorly after the “special consultant” arrived. That would imply she was the cause, and since time travel, to our current knowledge, is a secret held only by the stalwart members of A.R.E.N.A., that would mean that she was there “naturally”.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
To take a guess, I think there is no real Dessa. That whole dialogue about “reliving their last moments every time there’s a Fractal insertion” had to have been there for a reason. My bet is the original Mistlock facility underwent some catastrophe, and the Consortium accidentally opened up access to one of the echoes of that event, or rather the time leading up to it.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
Are you sure? I only saw three eyes, in a triangle formation.
Anyway, I know since Angel’s interview the idea has floated around the the globe depicts this network. Would be pretty cool if true.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
Back to the original point of this thread, I gotta say I’m disappointed. Not only did they shoehorn Scarlet in as the culprit, they ignored that Thaumanova was supposed to be a normal asuran facility with an Inquest lab working in secret beneath it, and instead turned it into an entirely Inquest complex. Non-Inquest personnel? There should’ve been, but we saw none of them.
Although there were dredge after all.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
I was scouring the Thaumanova fractal screen shots in hopes of finding something interesting, and I think I did!
http://i.imgur.com/JzVmwtb.jpg
They look almost like Skritt with aetherblade armor on, but it’s honestly really hard to tell. I wonder what this could mean for the lore/mechanics of the fractal.
Original, larger image: https://d3b4yo2b5lbfy.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/93decScreenshot-04.jpg
Having cleared up the mixed up from memory by mental reasoning, I can say with a high degree of correctness that the mole people were enslaved by the Stone Summit Dwarves from GW1. The mole people are the direct ancestors of the Dredge. That means in GW 2 the NPC conversation I over heard less than a week ago was correct first time round. That is the Asuras had enslaved the Skritts in the historic past. The picture information from the original poster would indicate that at the time of the Thaumanova Reactor incident the Skritts were either still slaves of the Asuras or the Skritts were in the long or short process of wrestling their freedom from the Asuras and were still engaging or cohabiting with the Asuras.
I’d have to ask you for a source before I could say for sure, but my gut says the slavery in question is probably the less than kind experiments a variety of independent asuran labs have run on the skritt. As Konig said, aside from attempts to crack the puzzle of their exponential intelligence, and the occasional entrepreneur seeking to harness a body of cheap labor, the asura treat the skritt as pests or vermin, to be kept as far from their civilization as possible.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
This is in no way relevant to the thread, but I would love it if saplings occasionally fell out of the sky while walking around the Grove. It’s just so frustrating how vague the game is about the process of a sylvari’s birth/awakening, especially considering how central that moment is to the nature of the race.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
Alright. Well, a few clarifications: While sylvari are born fully formed, and with a fairly good foundation of knowledge, they only know the basics- so the education and training you mentioned would still be required after birth, and would not necessarily go any faster than in any other race. While that certainly makes them able soldiers much quicker than in other races, it is by no means an instant process- I’d say it’s more likely to be only around twice as quick as in other races. Programming is the wrong word there- what they see, what they learn, rather they have a Wyld Hunt, is all essentially random. The Pale Tree is said to have some degree of influence in those things, but all indications are it’s a relatively modest amount. The “central thinking machine which can relay information anywhere in the world” bit is blatantly false- the Dream only picks up on random or particularly emotional moments, not everything an individual sylvari knows, and the Tree, while she can apparently see anything in the Dream, can only communicate with sylvari upon their return to the Grove. As far as logistics go, that means the sylvari have no upper hand.
All that said, I do agree with you that the sylvari have the potential to become an ultimate race. Their culture has a cohesive sense of purpose, their birth rate is said to be ever-increasing, they are capable warriors far sooner than the offspring of other races, and they are not seen to age. I don’t think that dominance will ever be realized, however- it would unbalance the whole “all are equal” approach ANet has taken. My bet is that the current paradigm will last for another thirty to fifty years, then the Pale Tree will either be killed off or naturally stop producing offspring.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
Braham and Rox do appear in the Nightmare Chambers, though rather they’re actually there is an open question. The dialogue is all on the wiki.
As for the dialogues, do you mean that there are two possible ones in the first room? I’ve played the story instance three times and only saw the Baron and Baroness, but there is another one with a Baron, Baroness, and Oratuss in the boss room.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
“We emerge full-sized from our cocoons and immediately enter school.”
“Born full-sized? Maybe your race is stronger than I thought.”
Is that the one?
EDIT: They are NOT immune to dragon corruption. They don’t come back as minions, but it does kill them outright.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
I’m going to hunt down this conversation before making a full reply (around Guardian Stone, is it?) but I would like to point out that Nightmare harms nature, not defends it. Just go and take a look at Kessex Hills- once a fantastically beautiful zone, one of my favorite in the game, now largely a blasted landscape reminiscent of Orr.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
I know that there’s been some debate on the subject, but I am inclined to view that item as evidence of the nature of Menzies’ demise- though it alone is not enough to claim that it has occurred yet. It could just as easily be a taunt, threat, or promise from Balthazar or one of his minions.
On the other hand, I recall getting a vague impression when going (partially) through FoW that the Balthazar-Menzies conflict was an eternal one, intrinsic to the very nature of that realm. A quick wiki search turned up very little, but my very tenuous stance is this- Balthazar’s Eternal army and Menzies’ Shadow army have fought and will fight forever over the Fissure of Woe, and at the end of the endless conflict, Menzies will die a horrible death.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
At the moment, I’d chalk it up to the same boat as the hydras- we haven’t gone to their known territory, so we have no basis to say either way. That said, they were an incredibly small population in GW1 (just that one small cave, iirc) so that adversely affects the odds of us ever hearing anything more about them.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
There are a whole heap of NPCs, from within the reactor itself to as far away as Mount Maelstrom, who lay the blame on the Inquest. Some of them cite evidence: for instance, the discovery of the Inquest labs beneath the reactor. It would be exceedingly strange if ANet now decided to lay the blame on some other entity.
EDIT: Missed this earlier, but on the article about the Fractal changes: “You voted, and Kiel delivered! Experience the moments leading up to the catastrophic destruction of the Thaumanova Reactor, caused by the Inquest’s reckless experiments with Chaos Energy.”
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
(edited by Aaron Ansari.1604)
I’d say they’re the strongest- what we see in-game is only about half of their military force, and the only other race that even maintains an army are the humans, and the Seraph, while good soldiers, are undermined by the government, while the charr government (and everything else) IS military.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
I get the feeling that they want one where they can read a bit more than an excerpt from one book in every fifty.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
I hope so. Even in GW1 I was dying to know more about Rodgort.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
As a point of curiosity, what about the Uncategorized Fractal makes you think city cubes have an inherent weak spot? All I remember is disjointed and entirely ambiguous rambling; and in any event, the Uncategorized Fractal isn’t a city cube, and likely was not designed to be floating (although everything floats in the Mists).
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
In the long run, I’d actually give it to the charr, as they advance much quicker. In the last 250 years they’ve gone from a primitive race to Tyria’s only industrial society, and the advances aren’t slowing. Just in the course of the game we’ve seen them take submarines and helicopters from prototypes to fully functional machines of war, and members of their race are also attempting to harness electricity. By comparison, the asura have advanced very little since 1078, and most of that is in the form of refinements to preexisting technologies, be it teleportation or golems, rather than anything new. Yes, they do have lasers, but those are actually pretty inferior weapons unless employed on a massive scale- and those suffer from a similarly massive charge time.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
There was a TowerTalk interview a while back, I don’t remember the exact date, where it was said that Scarlet is not part of the Soundless community or philosophy (cutting themselves off trying to escape the suffocating empathic noise), but still managed to distance or partially remove herself from the Dream… though if I recall correctly she hadn’t had total success. I’ll go back and find it and edit in the specifics.
EDIT: Scott McGough:“Scarlet has walled herself off from the Pale Tree to a certain extent, so there isn’t the kind of direct give-and-take that most sylvari have. It remains to be seen how much of Scarlet’s memories, and how much of Scarlet’s experience, how much of Scarlet’s knowledge will be transferred into the pool that sylvari draw from when they’re born. But at the moment, Scarlet’s thoughts are her own, and she’s keeping them to herself. It remains to be seen if she can keep doing that.” He also mentioned a potential future plotline involving what will happen once a sapling is awakened with some of Scarlet’s memories. But I digress.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
(edited by Aaron Ansari.1604)
Hm… I take your meaning, although I still think that ANet took some major, largely successful steps to distance themselves from that mold and make their EDs unique. Things like the 10,000 year cycle of awakening, or that their base essence is corruptive, or that they’re tied perhaps inextricably to the nature of Tyria… there are a few major points that set them apart from becoming just another impossibly massive Overlord.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
My apologies if this has already been asked (insert mandatory complaint/plea relating to the search function) but I’ve been wondering: if a sylvari were to become Soundless, would they also lose the compulsion of their Wyld Hunt? If that is the case, and said sylvari later returns to the Dream (it is my understanding that becoming Soundless is not an irreversible change), would the compulsion of their Hunt return at that time, or be gone forever?
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
The krait, in any event, definitely see a connection- they believe the obelisks mark the location of each prophet’s ascension, and will be the vehicle of their return. From what we hear in these latest patches, it seems the krait no longer guard them, and have been bereft of the obelisks ever since they were driven from the deeps around fifty years ago. Furthermore, we know that Scarlet did somehow aquire shards of at least one obelisk, and returned many of them to the krait, though she may certainly have kept more, or even the majority, for herself. The krait have since distributed these shards between their holdings across the continent.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
I’d disagree- from what I recall (it’s been a while since I’ve read those books) the overlords were just alien dragons from a world with massive dragons (so not eldritch abominations), and their ability to change the landscape stemmed from specific magical artifacts. I’m not dismissing the similarities, I’m just saying it’s not a direct copy in the way your post implies.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
I’ve been thinking about this too. About the time when other people started circulating the “toxic transformations as Mordremoth corruption” theory, I started playing with the idea that Scarlet may have imbued the shards she got her hands on with Mordremoth’s power, and by presenting it to them as the power of their obelisks the krait agreed to undergo the transformations. Since it technically hasn’t been disproved (the spores and their toxins are attributed in part to krait magic, but nothing on the actual transformations) I’d still like to believe that this is the case, since that would stop the obelisks from A.) becoming something that’s been done before; and B.) undermining the importance of the Bloodstones even further.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
Something else that must be remembered when discussing dwarves, especially in light of how GW2 overplays them, is that the Stone Summit were a very recent thing- “within the last generation” at the time of Prophecies. Even if dwarvern generations are longer than human ones, you’d be looking at less than sixty years, certainly, and at the end of at least 10,000 years of history and culture. I wouldn’t call a conflict that occurred during the last .6% of a culture’s span its downfall, not unless it wipes the race out entirely- and as Riot mentioned, it was a different war that accomplished that, albeit one falling close on the heels of the civil war.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
Frankly, I’m not convinced that they each have goals- inclinations may be more accurate. Take Zhaitan for instance. He lounged around in Arah for over a hundred years. Sure, you can make the arguments of “building his forces” and “plenty of magic, no reason to rush it”, but all the same the only agenda we see him actively pursue is gorging himself on magic and defending his territory. Even when he does make his move in the PS it’s only with a tiny fraction of his force. None of it adds up to having some drive to change the nature of the world- it seems to reflect a mindset that really couldn’t care less about what happens beyond its lair.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
I do agree that it chafes when Anet makes us fill in the blanks in their own stories, and it has happened often enough of late that it’s rubbing me raw. I guess the point that I’m trying to make is that it could all logically work out, and since this is Anet’s (imo poorly implemented) idea of a ‘mystery’, they will probably eventually fill in most of those holes and make the whole story work… it’ll just take a few months, maybe a year.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
From what we heard about Mendel in the last couple weeks, I am 90% sure that Marjory found a way to get back in touch with his ghost after the short story we read. This is not at all lore-breaking, nor does it require suspension of disbelief- our characters do exactly that in the personal story. As to what’s up with the weapons, there are any number of reasonable answers available, depending on how the other open questions surrounding Mendel are themselves answered.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
Strictly speaking, we don’t know that there’s a direct casual relationship between life and magic, only that all life can apparently tap into magic. Nor do we know that the Mists are made of magic- actually the opposite is true; all current lore states that the Mists are the origin of everything, which would include magic. What happens without the Elder Dragons balancing magic in catastrophic fashion is currently up in the air- there’s been no information on what would happen, likely because it never has happened. I can say that the mursaat destroying the seers was not caused by the build-up of magic; it was just a war between two opposed races.
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It seems that they can- it happens twice in Edge of Destiny, both times in the form of the mesmer (Jennah and Faolain) reliving the subjects memories (Logan and Caithe). Both times, iirc, involved physical contact, so that’s a possible limitation. However later in the same book, Jennah and Anise were able to combine their talents and peer into Kralkatorrik’s mind, so when working in tandem it seems that obstacle can be surpassed. I can’t think of any examples of it happening in-game, though, so I expect it’s very rare.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
As for the Mists thing, I believe that idea is due to her hologram being present at the toxic offshoots in WvW.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
Related question that I don’t want to bother creating a new thread for: Where’s the supposed Vigil and Order of Whispers presence inside the tower?
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
@RedStar I meant the same adds. When he changes stages, at roughly 75% health and 25% health (and iirc when they first spawn in right after he drops), all adds present will say something, one line for the krait and one for the Nightmare Court.
I agree that incarnating is an interesting phrase to use, but it has three meanings: “to put into or represent in a concrete form, as an idea”; “to be the embodiment or type of”; and “to embody in flesh; invest with a bodily, especially a human, form”. You were thinking the second meaning, but the one that was meant was the third.
@Walhalla I’m fairly sure they just meant us killing it- the Nightmare Court seem much more invested in the hybrid than Scarlet was. At no point did the hybrid seem to be going out of control, in fact quite the opposite, as while you fight it it displays a rapidly developing capacity for intelligent thought.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
Out of curiosity, what makes you think Scarlet was behind Thaumanova?
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
It’s one of those many, many, many things Anet hasn’t delved too deep into, but the way they explain it, the skritt don’t get smarter- but the larger the group, the better the odds one of them might happen to have a better solution, and then that one can instantaneously share it with the rest. As for the new-found capacity for having the right word to express their ideas… that’s harder to explain, but a spike in intelligence wouldn’t account for it either. To take a stab in the dark, my guess would be that a skritt is able to benefit from the collective vocabulary of the entire group, by means of the other skritt in their own way all suggesting what his next normal word should be.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
(edited by Aaron Ansari.1604)
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Nightmare_Incarnate.
And as the adds have dialogue, I’d consider them something more than a mechanic.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
Hmm… I think I’d disagree with that. Humans each have their own individual understanding of what the corruption would do to them and why that’d be a bad thing. Skritt may not- off the top of my head I can’t think of any skritt community that has had any interactions with dragon minions beyond “bad things trying to kill us all”, so they may easily lack the cultural experience, not to mention individual sophistication, to understand that serving a dragon will destroy everything that they are. If a corrupted skritt, something that they’d have no reason to be suspicious of, came up and said “Hey, this dragon makes lots and lots of shinies that he’ll share with us”, most of the scratch would waste no time rushing to the nearest crystal. If any escaped that experience they might know better, but there is no shortage of examples proving that skritt will play with the proverbial fire until they get burned- and when the burn is dragon corruption, there’s no escape or healing.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
By all that we know, skritt don’t have a “hive mind”, just a method of unbelievably fast and efficient communication. Still, I would agree that one corrupted skritt could convince other skritt to become corrupted, though this would be on a scratch-by-scratch basis, not the whole race at once. They’d probably be more useful as scouts or infiltrators, rather than a case of overwhelming numbers, as any one scratch isn’t particularly numerous (Skrittsburgh excepted); and the odds of a given scratch having any magical artifacts, let alone one of particular value, is slim to none.
All in all, while corrupting skritt may make for a good harassment technique, there isn’t much to be gained by it.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
By all means correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t the references to golden fruit all from pre-release?
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
Sadly, other than Malyck’s pod we don’t see what the sylvari wake from, though it’s described as fruit, not plants.
It’s one of those things that’s easy to miss, but there is one NPC- Mender Serimon, the first NPC your sylvari character talks to, who strangely enough still lacks a wiki page- that says that blue fruit hanging just above your head in the area where you awaken are the sylvari pods.
I’m inclined to agree with Drax about the hallucinations- not that Scarlet is one, but that you can’t always tell them by the shadowy form. Braham, Rox, and the PS related prisoner in the Nightmare Chamber don’t have that effect, but there certainly is not any reason that they’d actually be there.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
(edited by Aaron Ansari.1604)
I don’t want to get too far ahead of myself- this is still 100% speculation- but my thought was that the hybrid was an altered krait. It’s hard to get a good look during the fight, but looking at my screencaps most of its body doesn’t look planty, but rather the same basic texture as most krait.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
Plant+krait. And seeing as we kill it, I’m sure that’s not what she was after. I’m inclined to agree with Konig that she wanted the toxins, and also possibly knowledge that this hybridization process works. Scarlet has shown a peculiar interest in combining organisms- again as Konig has noted, she’s also made two sorts of cyborgs, and to look at it one way the dredge shamans were another combination, dredge with whatever rituals the Flame Legion uses, resulting in the magical equivalent of a cyborg. Interestingly enough, the steam creatures are also supposed to be partially organic. I wonder if her ultimate goal isn’t destruction but creation- wiping away the old to be replaced with new sorts of creatures, possibly under her control.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
To add to that list, Honorless Gladium got a mention. “Like sire, like cub? How’s your father’s redemption coming along? Any slip-ups?”
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
The first time you play through the Nightmare Chamber, and only the first time as far as I can tell, there is an unvoiced line that pops up in your chat that links back to your personal story; specifically the second arc of it, for the two characters I’ve taken through. For my sylvari, it was (slightly paraphrased) “I know Malyck’s secret too. You’re very naughty, keeping that to yourself.”
Now, rather that’s actually true or not is up in the air: throughout the chambers it’s made clear that you have no way of telling what’s actually real and what isn’t. It could well be you’re just hallucinating Scarlet’s voice. On the other hand, it’s speculated in the final instance that Scarlet has some influence on your toxin-befuddled mind- though that still would not necessarily mean she knows. It could just be that she’s able to make you think she knows something personal about you.
Even if Scarlet does know about Malyck, though, I’m still skeptical that he is Caithe’s secret, for two reasons. First, I am certain she used the word “too”, as in “in addition to, and therefore necessarily distinct from.” There is no context, but the way it’s phrased seems deliberately reminiscent of what she said to Caithe, so I am inclined to believe this line is supposed to disprove that Malyck is Caithe’s secret.
Furthermore, this release proves that they still remember which character plays through which storyline. They’ve previously shown that dungeon dialogue can also reflect personal story choices- in TA itself, Morrigu has an additional line for characters that played Shield of the Moon. Yet Caithe, who discovered Malyck alongside my ranger, still refused to discuss her secret with him, and said that she would tell him in her own time, and on her own terms. That rules out it being Malyck’s existence or the existence of his tree, although I suppose it could still possibly have to do with them- if she followed up with him, for instance, or if she discovered the tree’s location.
R.I.P., Old Man of Auld Red Wharf. Gone but never forgotten.
(edited by Aaron Ansari.1604)