Guild Wars 2

John Smith.4610:

Checking back in. This isn’t meant to be a discussion of just those three ideas that I posted, those were just a primer for options. The idea is to discuss RNG as a concept inside of games and reward systems. I think more discussion will lead to better understanding of the problems current systems may have, and the pros and cons of other possible systems.

That being said, this is not a discussion of how you should get a precursor. I’d prefer the discussion to be much more general, solving specific problems is easy once you have an excellent framework.

As a player who since early access hasn’t had a precursor drop in play or from the forge I’d say that I feel hard done by your “luck” mechanism and this makes me play less. You’ve had issues for a long time in my opinion and I frankly don’t see your attitude on this matter changing.

Open Cantha but make it an underwater map. That’ll show those fanboys

Yargesh.4965:

sirian.4981:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Sorry, I am quoting this rather than the whole post because I want to look at this:

Roybe.5896:

One other thing I would like to put out there. In this post in this discussion

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Changes-Coming-to-the-NPE/page/7#post4421761

buried in the business/psychology terminology is a very repugnant business idea. By giving someone something, getting them accustomed to it, then removing it, and offering that item for sale is done daily by drug dealers. I find it interesting that this might be a plan for the future, but it’s also distressing. This means that more things that we enjoy can be removed, changed, stretched out to change the opportunity costs involved to tip more players into the gem store with real money than in game currency.

. . . I’m not seeing it happening so much for funneling you to the Cash-to-Gem-to-Gold triangle. I might be able to admit to seeing it done to try to get you playing further abroad and to “persuade” you to stretch wings out and go to places normally not even looked twice at.

And this is specifically talking about Trait Masteries. The NPE seems mostly fine, I’m not finding too much hard-locked which I really should be able to access. And the Elite skill return to 31 now makes it easier to look and go “not too much changed, despite a lot of it changing”.

I just don’t know . . . I’m not a mind reader, at least not at this distance and over the Internet. That requires Patrick Jane.

They destroyed Lion’s Arch to sell airship passes.
We got Lion’s Arch back… But services were spread out further and WPs are still contested requiring walking within a hub.

From DR to bugged RNG, everything Anet has done is about monetization.

I will grant the guild bank changes all seem to have hte purpose of pushing people to buying bank/bag slots with gems.

If this was no so very sad it would be funny. He just flat out told you your conspiracy does not stand up. Good thing about conspiracies is that people who believe them never ever need to change their minds.

Even when they disagree they admit something smells in Chinatown

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Sorry, I am quoting this rather than the whole post because I want to look at this:

Roybe.5896:

One other thing I would like to put out there. In this post in this discussion

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Changes-Coming-to-the-NPE/page/7#post4421761

buried in the business/psychology terminology is a very repugnant business idea. By giving someone something, getting them accustomed to it, then removing it, and offering that item for sale is done daily by drug dealers. I find it interesting that this might be a plan for the future, but it’s also distressing. This means that more things that we enjoy can be removed, changed, stretched out to change the opportunity costs involved to tip more players into the gem store with real money than in game currency.

. . . I’m not seeing it happening so much for funneling you to the Cash-to-Gem-to-Gold triangle. I might be able to admit to seeing it done to try to get you playing further abroad and to “persuade” you to stretch wings out and go to places normally not even looked twice at.

And this is specifically talking about Trait Masteries. The NPE seems mostly fine, I’m not finding too much hard-locked which I really should be able to access. And the Elite skill return to 31 now makes it easier to look and go “not too much changed, despite a lot of it changing”.

I just don’t know . . . I’m not a mind reader, at least not at this distance and over the Internet. That requires Patrick Jane.

They destroyed Lion’s Arch to sell airship passes.
We got Lion’s Arch back… But services were spread out further and WPs are still contested requiring walking within a hub.

From DR to bugged RNG, everything Anet has done is about monetization.

These changes according to Colin, were meant to keep players like a few of my WoW friends that bought the game, played for 25 minutes and quit. That’s not an exaggeration one of my friends quit the game forever after hitting level 7.

But… Its a BTP game and those people already paid so what’s the problem with them quitting? GEMS! Only active players buy gems so I’ll assume this is a gem store driven change to what was my favorite part of GW2 the glorious leveling and open exploration.

My last gem purchase was this month, I’ve spent more on GW2 than a sub game and I’m unhappy with the direction, so I won’t buy any more.

Vayne.8563:

Elsdragon.5109:

Paradox.1380:

Much respect, Vayne. I’ve been flailing in futility trying to get some of this across in my own way in all these negative threads but I have been largely ignored. So thanks much. I’ve come to really respect almost everything you put on these forums. The more I read them the more level headed I feel you are. So, thank you. =)

Same here, Vayne. Thanks for this post, and your other ones.

Man…you guys…I don’t even know how to respond to this.

You think maybe we get get like some white knight icons to put by our names? lol

Well your post won’t be deleted….. I’m the Dark Knight

Since living story which needed no fixes was completely overhauled how long until the precursor situation which has needed a fix for years gets fixed?

illgot.1056:

Aidenwolf.5964:

illgot.1056:

*why would anyone care if another person is VIP?

Does them spending money irritate you so much that you would quit?*

Or maybe it’s the idea that after spending money for a year they will get a precursor (not even a full legendary).

Ohh, someone is willing to spend money to support the game… bad man!

None of the benefits seem like it would have any impact on PvP except maybe the precursor… after a full year of being VIP then doing the work to get the precursor crafted… oh and we maybe crafting precursors soon… so that whole VIP bonus drops in value.

Grow up, let people spend their money to be VIPs and stop being jealous of the Jones.

If Anet add VIP in any form I’m done for good. I own a collectors edition and buy gems so spending money obviously doesn’t bother me but add PTW and I’m out.

That’s fine, I bet the number of people that actually quit over something like this will look miniscule compared to the amount of people who will pay for the VIP/Subscription.

The VIP option will have ZERO negative effect on your game play, but hey, act like a child and quit over something that will only benefit you by giving Anet another source of revenue for future development.

little hint about making threats, people who spend money on this game regularly like you claim would actually welcome the ability to gain benefits and a discount by adding a subscription.

Let them play another game. GW2 is BTP which is why I played GW and why I play GW2 I bought gems to support the game and avoided the watchwork pick specifically because it’s borderline ptw.

Little hint, I don’t make idle threats

Just remove downstate completely and it’s solved. I understand why MMO players hate It. I dislike it in PvE and despise It in PvP but don’t break the game to solve an issue people who left disagree with.

illgot.1056:

*why would anyone care if another person is VIP?

Does them spending money irritate you so much that you would quit?*

Or maybe it’s the idea that after spending money for a year they will get a precursor (not even a full legendary).

Ohh, someone is willing to spend money to support the game… bad man!

None of the benefits seem like it would have any impact on PvP except maybe the precursor… after a full year of being VIP then doing the work to get the precursor crafted… oh and we maybe crafting precursors soon… so that whole VIP bonus drops in value.

Grow up, let people spend their money to be VIPs and stop being jealous of the Jones.

If Anet add VIP in any form I’m done for good. I own a collectors edition and buy gems so spending money obviously doesn’t bother me but add PTW and I’m out.

nexxe.7081:

Key farming was an unintended consequence. It wasn’t a feature. I’m glad Anet is changing it.

The ignorance of many players is astounding. If you don’t key farm that’s your choice. Farmers supply those lovely skins you get to buy cheaply.

Keep applauding the Chinafication of GW2 I’ll pass.

Necroing my own thread on this topic because Anet said the precursor situation was on their radar but obviously aren’t fixing it based on their response. This is one of many threads about this issue but this one is mine.

Precursors need another method of acquisition either a scavenger hunt or make them craftable.

ICEing.9237:

This thread needs to die already

Your opinion is noted. This thread is alive and well as long as precursors are RNG based and many of us will never see one.

Collector’s Edition, an account for my wife, and about $200 in gems total since launch (and I’ll never buy gems again). I got into GW and was so pumped for GW2 because they assured us the gem store wouldn’t run the game. I still play and will until I see another non NCsoft title I like, but they’ve had all the cash they’ll get from me unless things change.

phys.7689:

Ayrilana.1396:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Ayrilana.1396:

Xillllix.3485:

tolunart.2095:

It’s called supply and demand. Supply = low, demand = high.

NO, it’s called rich people flipping precursors on the market.

John Smith looked at the transactions during a timeframe and they were pretty much unique buyers and sellers. While some people do flip them, it’s not has common as you think.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Dusk-2000g/first#post4048636

That time frame was over the course of two days.

You realize of course that he chose the sample which proved his point.

Well I guess I forgot to put on my tin foil hat. I guess it was so convenient that he used the past two days at the time of his post.

actually the data included a substantial amount of time before the actual spike occured, i think it was approx 60 hours, and he included 15 from before the event occured, not only that but it didnt include the latest data and the biggest spikes and sales.

He may not have been cherry picking that may be the blocks in which the data is organized, but it definately wasnt the best data sample to hone in on what was happening due to the spike.

Exactly.

Ayrilana.1396:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Ayrilana.1396:

Xillllix.3485:

tolunart.2095:

It’s called supply and demand. Supply = low, demand = high.

NO, it’s called rich people flipping precursors on the market.

John Smith looked at the transactions during a timeframe and they were pretty much unique buyers and sellers. While some people do flip them, it’s not has common as you think.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Dusk-2000g/first#post4048636

That time frame was over the course of two days.

You realize of course that he chose the sample which proved his point.

Well I guess I forgot to put on my tin foil hat. I guess it was so convenient that he used the past two days at the time of his post.

This isn’t conspiracy talk. Economists cherry pick data for a living.

Ayrilana.1396:

Xillllix.3485:

tolunart.2095:

It’s called supply and demand. Supply = low, demand = high.

NO, it’s called rich people flipping precursors on the market.

John Smith looked at the transactions during a timeframe and they were pretty much unique buyers and sellers. While some people do flip them, it’s not has common as you think.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Dusk-2000g/first#post4048636

That time frame was over the course of two days.

You realize of course that he chose the sample which proved his point.

SobZney.1739:

I farmed gold for less than a week and just bought it.

I don’t see the problem.

The Legend is between 1000 – 1200 gold. If you’re saying you “farmed” that in a week I call Pinocchio so unless you bought an underwater pre or bought one in 2012 the math doesn’t work.

I have had most of my generic gifts (as I don’t know which precursor I’ll get) and my clovers in my bank for a very long time. I’ve stopped chasing a precursor via the forge and playing Guild Wars 2 for the most part. I haven’t rage quit the game or uninstalled it and I’ll be back for LS season 2 along with many others who, like me, are taking a break.

I still check the boards and am hopeful that one day Anet will realize that happy players make the best advertisers for their company.

FearedbytheGods.8617:

If ever there is a craftable precursor, I wish it named Aidenwolf.

Thanks. But they could call it WeHateAidenwolf and I’d still be happy.

I’ve been taking a break from Guild Wars 2 but I found time to log in and remind the devs that it’s way past 2013 and time for precursor scavenger hunt or crafting to be implemented.

You’re welcome Tyria.

Taygus.4571:

RyuDragnier.9476:

They need to make precursors craftable, it’d fix the problem in a heartbeat.

and triple (if not more) the prices of mats in a heartbeat.

So what? If T6 soars in price more people will farm the mats. This is a weak argument against fixing the lame precursor situation we have now.

tolunart.2095:

There are thousands of people running around the game swinging Twilights and shooting rainbow unicorns. It’s not that hard to do if you focus on the goal, just takes a long time to get there. Most players give up along the way because they don’t have the patience of dedication it takes.

The average player is not supposed to be able to create a Legendary weapon. This is why they are not called “really cool skins you can buy for $10 from the gem shop.”

Read the OP you’re posting nonsense to someone who’s actively tried to get a precursor since launch. Focus and dedication…. Been there done that. Move along.

tolunart.2095:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Someone who’s been lucky telling a perma unlucky player that it’s beneficial to my enjoyment that I haven’t been lucky… My head exploded just a little.

That’s because it is only in your head.

I couldn’t care less about Legendaries, they are nothing more than shinies to chase after. If that’s your thing, realize that it is supposed to be really really really really hard to get them. Complaining because the system works as intended is not going to get you any sympathy, if you don’t like it find another goal.

What’s the name of this thread? Is it feel sorry for me? No it’s precursor rage because the system isn’t working. I and many others get kitten drops and blowhards like yourself who’ve had luck tell me that this system is working as intended? ROFL

As for working as intended, I’m sure Anet are running metrics as we speak to find out why certain players stopped playing gw2.

tolunart.2095:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Precursors still rising in cost with no end in sight. I’m playing gw2 less and less as are many others in my guild but I’d be back full time if they fixed this pathetic loot system. Precursors are an unobtainable goal for me sadly and it’s soured my experience with this game.

The only person who can do anything about that is you.

Legendaries were created to be a long term goal, sure you can get lucky at any time (I got a Dusk a year ago from an event I ran through a hundred times) but once you finish the Legendary you’ll realize it’s just a fancy skin and doesn’t magically make the game better or more enjoyable. Quite the opposite, without a goal to focus on you’ll most likely be more disappointed than you are now.

Someone who’s been lucky telling a perma unlucky player that it’s beneficial to my enjoyment that I haven’t been lucky… My head exploded just a little.

Precursors still rising in cost with no end in sight. I’m playing gw2 less and less as are many others in my guild but I’d be back full time if they fixed this pathetic loot system. Precursors are an unobtainable goal for me sadly and it’s soured my experience with this game.

Callendor.1840:

I got mine from the MF, I was a little lucky though…. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsOmoTdLNJU

kittening RNG.

Chuck.8196:

Leamas.5803:

…could be never and just be them blowing a bunch of smoke to calm the masses.

For sure a possibility . I’m against it. I hope it never happens. If it does it should require a ridiculous amount of mats. Enough to completely dissuade average players from making one.

Precursors should drop from completing personal story.
Precursors should drop from gathering.
Precursors should drop from map completion.
Precursors should drop from PvP and boss chests.
Precursors should drop from the forge.

See what I did there? I don’t give a kitten about their rarity. There is enough grind involved in making a legendary without keeping the precursor rare.

Also, I don’t like your comment so you lose 10 internet points. 0.0

It is odd that this price hike in precursors is happening right before the China launch and the 50% GW2 sale. We are after all helping to fund the Chinese launch whether we like it or not. Prices go way up… People buy gems.

Valento.9852:

Leamas.5803:

Either way, they have to greatly increase the drop rate, it’s the only way to reduce the prices. I don’t see them increasing the drop rate, so we’re all pretty much screwed. 1400g for The Legend as I write this. It’s just obscene!!!

If the price keeps rising I will never be able to buy it… I’m saving but I don’t have enough time, I play roughly 4h a day WHEN I can. I honestly think the way to obtain precursors at this moment is completely broken, no matter how hard the profit-hard gamers try to impose how awesome it is, the truth is that it’s not.

Precursor drop rate needs to be completely overhauled when Anet get back from their Chinese launch duties. The only people who like it as is are the hard core flippers and those with outrageous luck. You know, the same guys who say people don’t flip precursors.

Mortifer.2946:

this guy stole all the luck from other people’s accounts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UyZ1I2xesU&feature=youtu.be

check out his other videos too – he gets GS precursors every 300g spent

The most recent comment on that video is word for word how I feel about this game’s ridiculously bugged RNG. I feel that no matter how many forges I do, I will never get anything while the forge is working just fine for others.

Myst.5783:

I got my 3rd precursor a day or so ago or a random mob in Cursed Shore

They’re still dropping. .-.

Some people are lucky.

Spurnshadow.3678:

Wow. Just wow. There are some really stupid people posting here regarding gold sinks.

I’ll explain one last time what I mean when I mention gold sinks in this thread which is about the precursor situation. It’s pretty obvious so it should not be hard to follow. Disagree all you like.

When I mention gold sinks I am not referring to traditional gold out the economy taxes I only brought up the TP tax as an example of funds being taken out the player’s bank in response to a comment posted above.

I’m talking about the most expensive and for many of us seemingly impossible to acquire legendary precursors, and why it’s not a priority for Anet to fix the kitten thing because they need player’s to be gold poor and hunting a legendary.

Not all players go after legendaries but for those who do it’s brutal unless you’re very very lucky. This is by design obviously. I say that because they recognized over a year ago that players hated it, said they’d fix it, and then decided not to. Why? Because people who lose at the forge are poor. If you have a kitten ton of gold you don’t lose, you just have dry spells of RNG until you eventually succeed because you can afford to keep going.

Why is this by design? Because if you’ve lost all of your gold and rebuilt your stash and lost it over a long period of time maybe you cheat… Yes I said cheat. You use your credit card, buy gems, convert them to gold, and TP your precursor. Something that should’ve never been possible IMO.

Another reason to keep precursors expensive is because they want exos to be expensive and rares, and the materials that make both. High prices won’t hurt 10% of the players but it will hurt the bank accounts of new players and casuals and those who are still hunting a precursor who haven’t “cheated”.

Nerfing champion loot, DR, the speed clearing Nerf, all of these are undeniably designed to take gold out of players pockets. If you’re comfortable in exotics, or you’re already geared out, or crazy lucky, you won’t notice this at all. But the % of the player base who are chasing legendaries and have my kitten luck, notice it.

In my case it does Anet no good as I won’t change my gems to gold but the fact that they scrapped fixing our precursors and sell them in China for sub’s, says its all about the loot.

Leamas.5803:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Lankybrit.4598:

Aidenwolf.5964:

mtpelion.4562:

Aidenwolf.5964:

You could type the alphabet and claim it’s poetry as well. Crafting rares to throw into the forge chasing a legendary precursor bankrupts unlucky players. This is the gold sink I’m referring to. In addition to the macro sinks of waypoint costs and TP fees.

Bankruptcy is the appropriate term for what you are describing, not “Gold Sink”.

Gold Sinks are things that delete currency (not asset value) from the game in order to offset the fact that currency is created out of thin air when players do things in the game.

Spending all of your coins chasing a pipe dream is just plain old-fashioned Bankruptcy.

Since I will never purchase a precursor I have two choices, forge one, and since a drop will never happen, don’t craft a legendary. Those are my two choices.

You are correct that a gold sink deletes gold from the economy I’ll use the term golden toilet to address the mystic forge.

Why can’t we convince you? The TP tax is on every transaction. It’s a gold sink. If you have 1000g that you spend trying to get a pre-cursor, you’ve given 850g to other players, and 150g is sunk. What would you do if you didn’t put them in the Mystic Forge? Flip them? Generating another 15% sink? Vendor them? For a pittance? The amount of gold taken out of the economy by forging them is infinitesimal.

I’ve stated exactly what you said.

The tax in the TP has a more important role than simply being a gold sink. It’s there to help give some stability, especially to very expensive items. Every time you post an item for sale, you lose 5% of the asking price. That’s 50G on a 1000G precursor for instance. This is the listing fee and comes out of your bank immediately at the time you post. The listing fee is there to discourage sellers from constantly one-upping each other. You think it’s bad now, things would be much worse without it. The other 10% comes off at the time of sale and is paid by the buyer. So 5% of a the sink is paid by the seller and 10% by the buyer. It’s not all that bad and is much akin to sales tax.

The one thing I like about the TP is that there is NO RNG!!! If you know how to do you can make money, albeit not very quickly unless you take big risks and/or big time commitment, but you are in control, not some stupid buggy RNG. ANet might mess with the supply chain and screw up prices, but the TP just is.

Now, let’s get this topic back on track. We’re supposed to be talking about how stupid precursors are to get now.

Precursors over 1000 gold and not one word about the issue from Anet.

Lankybrit.4598:

Aidenwolf.5964:

DigitalKirin.9714:

Aidenwolf.5964:

There is a 99.9% chance that you’re in over your head. Best of luck!

Unlikely.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Since we’re going to be mass forging because we really need our precursor we will need to buy the components and then craft these greatswords with our weaponsmith.

-snip-

The action of purchasing from the Trading Post (thus incurring the Trade Post fees, which remove gold from the game) is the reason why gold is removed from the game.

It is NOT the action for destroying items that removes the gold from the game.

I’m talking about the individual’s gold not the greater economy which is irrelevant.

Ahh, I think we’ve got to the root of the problem. A gold sink takes money from the overall economy. You can’t just apply it to an individual, you have to look at the game economy as a whole.

Welcome to understanding. I’ve only ever been speaking about the economy from an individual player’s perspective.

Valento.9852:

Oh my what’s going on in this thread? *grabs rule*

You two, now!

When you argue for change you upset those who’ve profited from the system. As I said in my OP I couldn’t care less if you disagree that a change to precursor acquisition needs to happen and fast. I thank you all for your happy or angry or irrational posts!

Lankybrit.4598:

Aidenwolf.5964:

mtpelion.4562:

Aidenwolf.5964:

You could type the alphabet and claim it’s poetry as well. Crafting rares to throw into the forge chasing a legendary precursor bankrupts unlucky players. This is the gold sink I’m referring to. In addition to the macro sinks of waypoint costs and TP fees.

Bankruptcy is the appropriate term for what you are describing, not “Gold Sink”.

Gold Sinks are things that delete currency (not asset value) from the game in order to offset the fact that currency is created out of thin air when players do things in the game.

Spending all of your coins chasing a pipe dream is just plain old-fashioned Bankruptcy.

Since I will never purchase a precursor I have two choices, forge one, and since a drop will never happen, don’t craft a legendary. Those are my two choices.

You are correct that a gold sink deletes gold from the economy I’ll use the term golden toilet to address the mystic forge.

Why can’t we convince you? The TP tax is on every transaction. It’s a gold sink. If you have 1000g that you spend trying to get a pre-cursor, you’ve given 850g to other players, and 150g is sunk. What would you do if you didn’t put them in the Mystic Forge? Flip them? Generating another 15% sink? Vendor them? For a pittance? The amount of gold taken out of the economy by forging them is infinitesimal.

I’ve stated exactly what you said.

Aidan Savage.2078:

Anything you do outside of selling on the trade post, or buying from npcs, is not a gold sink. Losing potential gold because you MFed rares instead of sold them is not a gold sink. That is you losing out on potential gold. A gold sink would be if it COST a gold to craft something, or to use the forge in addition to the materials already present. It doesnt. You’re attempting to create an argument by redefining terms to fit your argument.

It does not cost you anything to get a precursor out of the forge. You give up potential profit as an opportunity cost in exchange for a chance at a precursor. There’s a very important and distinct difference people need to mind.

0.0
Every item you destroy in the forge trying to get a precursor has a gold or a silver value. To say it isn’t costing anything to get a precursor is a little ridiculous so I’ll assume you mean that there isn’t a forge tax (please do not give them any ideas).

mtpelion.4562:

Aidenwolf.5964:

You could type the alphabet and claim it’s poetry as well. Crafting rares to throw into the forge chasing a legendary precursor bankrupts unlucky players. This is the gold sink I’m referring to. In addition to the macro sinks of waypoint costs and TP fees.

Bankruptcy is the appropriate term for what you are describing, not “Gold Sink”.

Gold Sinks are things that delete currency (not asset value) from the game in order to offset the fact that currency is created out of thin air when players do things in the game.

Spending all of your coins chasing a pipe dream is just plain old-fashioned Bankruptcy.

Since I will never purchase a precursor I have two choices, forge one, and since a drop will never happen, don’t craft a legendary. Those are my two choices.

You are correct that a gold sink deletes gold from the economy I’ll use the term golden toilet to address the mystic forge.

DigitalKirin.9714:

Aidenwolf.5964:

DigitalKirin.9714:

Aidenwolf.5964:

When they do that I’ll answer. As to the relevance of the greater economy, it’s rigged, you know that right?

In other words, you don’t have a good answer.

Rigged or not, the topic at hand is what a Gold Sink is. Creating/destroying materials/items doesn’t necessarily destroy or create gold. Actions like posting things on the TP, using Waypoints, buying stuff from vendors, that removes gold from the economy and is a Gold Sink.

In other words you asked a ridiculously hypothetical question that should it ever occur and Anet mailed every player in the game a precursor…. I’d be too busy crafting my legendary to answer.

Ridiculousness is only meant to highlight the fault in your logic of associating the worth of an item to gold creation/destruction.

I could give a much more feasible situation, but you’d probably miss the point.

You could type the alphabet and claim it’s poetry as well. Crafting rares to throw into the forge chasing a legendary precursor bankrupts unlucky players. This is the gold sink I’m referring to. In addition to the macro sinks of waypoint costs and TP fees.

DigitalKirin.9714:

Aidenwolf.5964:

When they do that I’ll answer. As to the relevance of the greater economy, it’s rigged, you know that right?

In other words, you don’t have a good answer.

Rigged or not, the topic at hand is what a Gold Sink is. Creating/destroying materials/items doesn’t necessarily destroy or create gold. Actions like posting things on the TP, using Waypoints, buying stuff from vendors, that removes gold from the economy and is a Gold Sink.

In other words you asked a ridiculously hypothetical question that should it ever occur and Anet mailed every player in the game a precursor…. I’d be too busy crafting my legendary to answer.

DigitalKirin.9714:

Aidenwolf.5964:

I’m talking about the individual’s gold not the greater economy which is irrelevant.

The greater economy is always relevant. If you only look at the individual’s gold amount, then you could say giving gold to a friend would be a gold sink.

“Hey buddy, here’s 9 gold!” There. You just destroyed 9 gold.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Absolutely. If you create only to sell then you win.

Okay, then. Let’s just say Spark has a current sale value of 1,000 gold (rounding off). ANet, realizing that people have been demanding precursors, graciously mails everyone a “random precursor box”, however, it’s bugged (what isn’t these days?) and everyone pulls out a Spark from their random precursor box. How much gold did ANet introduce into the economy? How much gold did you earn by opening this box?

When they do that I’ll answer. As to the relevance of the greater economy, it’s rigged, you know that right?

DigitalKirin.9714:

Aidenwolf.5964:

There is a 99.9% chance that you’re in over your head. Best of luck!

Unlikely.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Since we’re going to be mass forging because we really need our precursor we will need to buy the components and then craft these greatswords with our weaponsmith.

-snip-

The action of purchasing from the Trading Post (thus incurring the Trade Post fees, which remove gold from the game) is the reason why gold is removed from the game.

It is NOT the action for destroying items that removes the gold from the game.

In other words, let’s say instead of mystic forging those krait greatswords, you sold them on the TP. The 9 gold is still gone, plus a touch more due to TP fees for listing/selling those crafted greatswords.

Edit:Let’s also go back and look at a previous quote:

Destroying assets which have value also removes the gold those items could’ve been sold for from an individual’s portfolio.

Would you say that the opposite is true, then? “Creating assets which have value also adds the gold to an individuals portfolio”?

Absolutely. If you create only to sell then you win.

DigitalKirin.9714:

Aidenwolf.5964:

There is a 99.9% chance that you’re in over your head. Best of luck!

Unlikely.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Since we’re going to be mass forging because we really need our precursor we will need to buy the components and then craft these greatswords with our weaponsmith.

-snip-

The action of purchasing from the Trading Post (thus incurring the Trade Post fees, which remove gold from the game) is the reason why gold is removed from the game.

It is NOT the action for destroying items that removes the gold from the game.

I’m talking about the individual’s gold not the greater economy which is irrelevant.

Lankybrit.4598:

Aiden, so you’ve changed your argument to the 15% tax being the money taken out, not the value of the destroyed items.

Good. Because that’s the only logical argument. Gold sink because of 15% tax – fine. Gold sink because of items being destroyed – not fine.

Both are valid. My point is not the macro but the micro economy. The system is designed to bankrupt individual players who chase a precursor to entice them to use plastic to buy gems.

DigitalKirin.9714:

Aidenwolf.5964:

DigitalKirin.9714:

Destroying items doesn’t remove gold.

Removing gold removes gold.

The sky is blue because it’s blue.

Destroying assets which have value also removes the gold those items could’ve been sold for from an individual’s portfolio.

If I own 4 paintings and light them on fire….

Let’s say that there’s 100 people in an economy with 10 gold each, meaning there’s 1,000 gold in the system. Let’s say that each person also owns 4 lvl80 rare swords. (400 rare swords.)

If 50 people throw their swords into the mystic forge and get back a single lvl80 rare sword back, how much gold did the system lose?

Edit: Bonus question: how much was each sword worth (assuming they were the exact same sword) before and after the 50 mystic forge attempts?

Double Edit: The sky is blue because of Raleigh Scattering.

There is a 99.9% chance that you’re in over your head. Best of luck!

I will defeat your arguement using the metrics for rare greatswords as the component for our legendary theory crafting. The gold values are irrelevant to this lesson.

Since we’re going to be mass forging because we really need our precursor we will need to buy the components and then craft these greatswords with our weaponsmith.

Sentinel’s Krait Slayer ingredients all bought on the TP.
200 mithril greatsword blades – 15% of each purchase is removed from the economy.
200 mithril greatsword hilts – 15% of each purchase is removed from the economy.
200 sentinel’s mithril imbued inscriptions – 15% of each purchase is removed from the economy.

And we forge!

Aww crap we got nothing and at today’s prices that cost us 30 silver x 200 or 60 gold. But hey, that means another player is 60 gold richer right? No… Because 15% or 9 gold of that 60 gold is taken out of the economy by the TP. But at least we have something for the 60 gold we spent trying to get our precursor right? Only if you got exotics and only if you then sold them. With the changes to the mystic forge you now have a chance to get sub 80 exotics that are worth less, which means they actually sucked more gold out of your pockets while you failed to get a precursor.

Now if we don’t get a precursor for say a year and we’ve dumped our gold into the pit of dispair (much better name than the toilet) how do we complete our legendary? If only there was a way to get more gold fast…. MasterCard.

And that is how the forge is profitable… For Anet.

DigitalKirin.9714:

Destroying items doesn’t remove gold.

Removing gold removes gold.

The sky is blue because it’s blue.

Destroying assets which have value also removes the gold those items could’ve been sold for from an individual’s portfolio.

If I own 4 paintings and light them on fire….

Lankybrit.4598:

Aidenwolf.5964:

mtpelion.4562:

Aidenwolf.5964:

The precursor drop rate or lack thereof is the main gold sink in GW2 and the number one method of keeping players gold poor to generate gem sales. Forgive me if I feel cheated by Anet. This isn’t a FTP game, a box price game that wasn’t supposed to act like one.

How is the precursor drop rate a gold sink?

Low drop rate forces players to use the Mystic Forge to get one. The mystic forge destroys 4 items while retuning one.

That’s not a gold sink at all. The gold was passed from one player to another to buy those 4 items in the first place. It doesn’t take gold from the economy at all, just redistributes it.

When those items are destroyed they are taken out of the game. Whether you use currency to buy rares or exotics or craft them is not the point.

Price per rare x 4 per forge x 5 for an average chance at an exotic which costs less than the sum of the rares used to forge it (especially with the new change to the forge in which you can actually get a sub 80 exo even when using all level 80 rares) this is a gold sink. Meaning it removes gold and items which have tradable value from the game.

mtpelion.4562:

Aidenwolf.5964:

The precursor drop rate or lack thereof is the main gold sink in GW2 and the number one method of keeping players gold poor to generate gem sales. Forgive me if I feel cheated by Anet. This isn’t a FTP game, a box price game that wasn’t supposed to act like one.

How is the precursor drop rate a gold sink?

Low drop rate forces players to use the Mystic Forge to get one. The mystic forge destroys 4 items while retuning one.

Maxite.6102:

There is a legendary in every pug I join, usually the greatswords or the staff. The drop rate must be pretty decent.

if its driving you the point you’re bringing in phrases like “Corporate Masters!” and “greed” its probably time for a break. That’s some real angst, and a sword with a few extra bits of glittery pixels probably isn’t going to make you feel any better.

Precursors used to drop a lot more (they called it a loot bug and “fixed” it) so those legendaries could be very old but they cost 1000 gold or more now. I’ve been actively trying to get one for over a year without success. Read my OP, I don’t care if you disagree thank you for the post.

The precursor drop rate or lack thereof is the main gold sink in GW2 and the number one method of keeping players gold poor to generate gem sales. Forgive me if I feel cheated by Anet. This isn’t a FTP game, a box price game that wasn’t supposed to act like one.