Guild Wars 2

Kaiyanwan.8521:

You know why this system exists? The answer is super simple.

It is ANets way to fight item hyper inflation that they created with all those drops in the first place.

It takes about 24,000 items to tailor a single set, so six pieces of ascended armor.

This number is so beyond any reason outside fighting inflation it is not even funny anymore. It is terrible game design, as it feels futile to even start crafting anything with this number, no matter how easy or hard it is to get these items.
Getting these items feels like a terrible chore, instead of an exciting event. I clearly prefer the joy of an item dropping with a chance of 1/10 compared to collecting 100 of it with a fixed drop of 10. It feels exciting and rewarding and less grindy to me (which is an illusion I know).

Worst crafting system ever. 24,000 items, just think about it. Wow…

I’m crafting ascended at the moment as an experiment. I’m playing the way I want to as the apologists for the system say it can be done. I’ve purchased nothing from the TP I’m gathering all of my own materials and I’ll tell you…. It’s a hellish grind. When I made Mawdrey I was unable to gather enough foxfire due to RNG so I bought about half of the needed clusters and I won’t do that again. The real problem is cloth and leather drops. I need a massive amount of silk, 300 a day for my CD. The most I’ve even seen in a day is 100 and 40 of That came from a map completion and that doesn’t take linen or cotton into account which are only slightly less than impossible to gather since my characters are 80s.

The system is 100% against the principles Anet claimed guided their hand in crafting the game and the main reason I purchased it. I enjoy the game but the grind and the RNG are brutal. Now that they’ve announced an expansion my hope is they’ll rollback many of the changes they’ve made. As it stands now crafting in GW2 is almost as bad as the RNG in GW2 and that’s saying something.

jazzychaos.3609:

I think paid expans are good just for the fact they need to make some money and the game is still free to play.

Nothing you pay for is free.

It’s difficult to tell what direction they will head in. GW2 tried Living Story and cash shop centrism but is now switching to the boxed expansion model of GW1. Many players have called for an expansion and quite a few QOL changes that they’ve announced (and one they promised for free).

What I care about is how they’ll handle the gem store going forward. Will we get regular expansions with little gemstore focus like GW1? Or will they try to pull off paid expansions and gemstore heavy like many FTP games?

Time will tell. I hear many more players call this game free to play now, when I preordered the game we called it buy to play. Every time I hear someone call GW2 free to play I get a little angrier since I paid for the collector’s edition of a gem store ftp game. If they move more to box sales than gems I’d be very happy but I doubt it.

Use a black lion salvage kit. It destroys the item but gives you your upgrade plus other materials. There is almost nothing in the game that is cost effective to use an extractor on. Keep in mind that you cannot salvage karma gear so I advise against using expensive upgrades on those items.

Ashen.2907:

TheMaskedGamer.5708:

warbignime.4610:

Sube Dai.8496:

Its a pretty stupid comment IMO because the game would be unrecognisable if it had a trinity.

All of the class skills, traits, and play styles would be different. And the combat that he says is the best wouldn’t exist either.

His statement contradicts itself.

That is not true, the only thing that remove holy trinity is downed state and no taunt. If gw2 had no downed state, there would be healer, if gw2 had taunt there would be tank. GW2 is not that far away from holy trinity.

You do realize that Taunt IS being added to the game right?

They call it taunt but it doesnt seem to fulfill the purpose of of traditional tanking taunt as seen in trinity based MMOs. I may be mistaken but it seems more another CC ability than threat management.

Aidenwolf.5964:

Perhaps, but they’ve already got our money. Business despises anything but growth and new players bring new money.

How do box sales compare to gem purchases ?

They may already have our box money, but they are still getting some of our money anyway.

The money is decreasing that’s why the focus went from LS to expansion

abbetd.5912:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Would the game be more successful with the trinity? No one knows. Anet must increase revenue which is why we’re getting an expansion so they’re in a position where trying new things is necessary. The game is losing income month to month so whether or not you as a player would prefer a trinity isn’t the question. The real question is would the game generate more revenue by attracting more players with healers and tanks.

While simultaneously driving away a large number of current players, don’t forget.

Perhaps, but they’ve already got our money. Business despises anything but growth and new players bring new money.

Nike.2631:

Aidenwolf.5964:

You’re asking Anet to make leather as expensive as cloth. Ridiculous topic.

Not at all. Its an outgrowth of discussion elsewhere that achieving parity does not always mean make the high cost item cheaper – making the other low cost items more expensive is also a move towards parity.

There’s a lot of call to make damask cheaper and one of the few arguments for doing so that is not based entirely on self-interest is that there is poor parity between the armor weights. This is a solution that addresses parity rather than tries to validate “but I wantses it cheaper!”

He begins this discussion citing the “why is silk going up in price” debate. By doing so he himself began with players unhappy about the cost of silk being too high making my argument that balancing should be achieved by reducing the cost of Damask relevant to this discussion.

Furthermore by citing the silk price debate first then suggesting that leather should be made close to as expensive as cloth he killed his own argument in my opinion. Players are already unhappy with the costs associated with ascended and as constructed in the OP this is very much an issue of price.

Would the game be more successful with the trinity? No one knows. Anet must increase revenue which is why we’re getting an expansion so they’re in a position where trying new things is necessary. The game is losing income month to month so whether or not you as a player would prefer a trinity isn’t the question. The real question is would the game generate more revenue by attracting more players with healers and tanks.

Wanze.8410:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Well thought out but fatally flawed in my opinion. You’re asking for Elonian leather to be as lousy as Damask to create. Making leather armor the same as Dams will simply stop players from crafting medium armor.

If Damask (or asc armor in general) is lousy to create is a matter of opinion. Medium Armor users will definately have the short end of the stick with my suggestion but they were able to craft the cheapest asc armor for ever since it got released.

My solution wouldnt put them at a disadvantage compared to light or heavy classes, so even if Damask or asc armor in general is in your opinion lousy to create, it would be equally lousy for everybody.

Thats not given with the status quo.

You’re asking Anet to make leather as expensive as cloth. Ridiculous topic.

Any mob you see feel free to tag. The one and only point I’d add is that linking drops in mapchat is pretty lame. Many players myself included never get anything and seeing someone get something just reminds us that RNG in GW2 is completely broken.

Report the player, block him, move on. Gratz on the drop I guess….

Wanze.8410:

OK, lets have a look at Elonian Leather.

By adjusting the light insignia recipe, we managed to balance out the t7 mat requirements for each set and now they all need 24 damask and either 18 elonian leather or deldrimor ingots.

This setup has the advantage that the price of damask spreads equally across all three sets, so it doesnt matter if it fluctuates a bit. And if I had the choice of either rebalancing deldrimor or elonian leather, i would choose the latter because it has minimal sinks, apart from asc armor crafting (deldrimor has has a high consumption in weaponcrafting), so it doesnt affect too much other markets. Thick Leather is also traded at vendor value on the tp, which is never a good thing. So i rather make adjustments there, considering that mithril is also used in very high volumes for forging rare weapons for precursors.

The ingredients for a square of elonian leather and their values are:

40 Thin Leather Section@(44 Copper) 18s
20 Coarse Leather Section@(1 Silver 1 Copper) 20s
40 Rugged Leather Section@(2 Silver 11 Copper) 85s
1 Glob of Ectoplasm@(31 Silver 70 Copper)
10 Thermocatalytic Reagent for 15s
150 Thick Leather Section@(10 Copper) 15s

Makes a little less than 2g crafting cost and for our sets to cost the same, its price should go up to the value of deldrimor, which sits around 4g.

The obvious choice for adding value is T5 leather, as it sits at vendor value. Historically, mithril ore was always valued around 40c, with a few ups and downs, so for my suggestion, i would like to aim for a value of 40 copper per thick leather section as well.

That would mean that 50 squares of thick leather add up to 60 silver, which isnt quite enough.

We are left with a couple of solutions to raise the value further.
1) Raise the requirements for refining thick leather from 3 to 4 sections
2) Raise the requirements for elonian leather from 50 to 100 thick leather squares
3) Raise the value of thick leather section beyond 40 copper
4) Raise the value of thin, coarse and rugged leather

IT will propably be a combination of 1,2 and 4.

1) and 2) will raise the amount of t5 leather sections needed to 400, which means at a price of 40 copper, will add up 1.6g.

The price for the ecto and the reagents stays stable at 47s and the t2-4 leather is currently valued at 1.23g.

That gets us to 3.3g overall costs, so we are still missing 70 silver for our goal of 4g crafting cost.

But we have to consider the additional demand for t2-4 leather due to our adjustments to the insignia recipe. Before the change, we needed only 24 elonian leather to craft 1 set each, now we need 36, meaning about 50% more demand for leather in general, if we disregard other sinks for leather, like bowstrings for t7 and consumption to level crafting from 0-400 for t2-4 leather.
Ideally this would add another 50% value to the t2-4 mats, which now would cost 61s more overall.

BOOM! ~4 gold without even touching any droprates of metal, cloth or leather.

Of course its impossible to predict exactly, how the prices of metal and leather will behave indipendantly and especially t5 leather will need some close monitoring until it finds its new equilibrium but i think Anet found some great ways to adjust silk during season 2 and i am confident that they will be able to do the same for thick leather.

Well thought out but fatally flawed in my opinion. You’re asking for Elonian leather to be as lousy as Damask to create. Making leather armor the same as Dams will simply stop players from crafting medium armor.

Wanze.8410:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Andred.1087:

Aidenwolf.5964:

You’re asking for regulatory help in order to increase the price of leather rather than decrease the price of cloth. Surely you haven’t banked a few stacks of Elonian Leather in anticipation of this change. Surely.

Wanze spends an extraordinary amount of time analyzing the game economy and offering explanations/solutions to a huge number of questions and problems people have with it. Besides that, I’m pretty sure he plays the TP on the regular, and has loads more money than anybody in the game needs. To suggest this nearly-max-length post offering a detailed and thoughtful analysis of the T7 market is nothing but a ploy to make a quick buck off of a change that would require months to effect is hyper-cynical and plain ridiculous.

That said, everyone start buying up Elonian now! Nothing could go wrong!

It’s a call for ascended leather to cost more
rather than fix for the others which would be the most obvious choice for anyone not looking to make a profit.

One requirement for my solution was not to reduce the average, high costs of ascended armor because i think the high price is intended.
If you have a constructive suggestion, how this can be solved without 1 or more mats going up in price, im all ears.

Leather and cloth are both more difficult to gather than ore and lumber. Cloth is more valuable due to 3 factors:

1. Cloth is used for all weights
2. Light armor classes outnumber leather classes in fractals.
3. 100 bolts or 300 scraps are required for Damask double that of any other weight.

Rather than increase the cost of leather I would remove the 100 bolt requirement and roll back loot to down level which would allow leather and cloth to be more easily farmed (similar to ore nodes which are map specific). While light armor would still cost more due to Damask being used in all 3 weights it would lower costs for light.

I recognize that Anet want ascended to be expensive but this needs to be rebalaced as they’ve gone overboard imo.

No. Wait until next Wintersday

Ranael.6423:

Aidenwolf.5964:

The hunt portion and crafting requirements were both fun/fine imo but foxfire requires serious commitment of time harvesting and luck in getting foxfires to drop. My Mawdrey is infused (why wouldn’t it be) I would never stop at exotic when crafted backpieces have better stats than exo Mawdrey does.

Well since you already had better items you could have stopped at exo for the skin and decided that the infused version could wait or wasn’t worth the gold you spent or the time to farm the wood.
So I think it perfectly fits the “non-mandatory” property of the grind in the game, doesn’kitten

Ascended is BiS grind is required to attain them whether or not you enjoy the activity.

Andred.1087:

Aidenwolf.5964:

You’re asking for regulatory help in order to increase the price of leather rather than decrease the price of cloth. Surely you haven’t banked a few stacks of Elonian Leather in anticipation of this change. Surely.

Wanze spends an extraordinary amount of time analyzing the game economy and offering explanations/solutions to a huge number of questions and problems people have with it. Besides that, I’m pretty sure he plays the TP on the regular, and has loads more money than anybody in the game needs. To suggest this nearly-max-length post offering a detailed and thoughtful analysis of the T7 market is nothing but a ploy to make a quick buck off of a change that would require months to effect is hyper-cynical and plain ridiculous.

That said, everyone start buying up Elonian now! Nothing could go wrong!

It’s a call for ascended leather to cost more
rather than fix for the others which would be the most obvious choice for anyone not looking to make a profit.

Ranael.6423:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Ranael.6423:

Sorry but when you raise a reputation in WoW to get a mini that you “hunt” by doing the same daily quest everyday for more than a month you call it a farm but doing so in GW2 you call it a grind…
Did you grind or hunt Mawdrey? Did you grind or hunt your Ascended gear?

Anyway you will reject that comment saying I just debate the semantic.

Mawdrey was a massive grind…. Are you saying otherwise? Good luck with Foxfires post nerf. Of course I bought half of mine on the TP as it’s nearly impossible to gather them on your own due to RNG.

But you made it because you hunted it… (I know it is not the same user posting). Stopping at the first or second step (exotic) wasn’t enough (less foxfire required)?

And honestly it is user dependent. I bought some clusters but some people in my guild decided to wait for having enough by cutting trees… and it worked. Did they grind wood or simply farm it?

The hunt portion and crafting requirements were both fun/fine imo but foxfire requires serious commitment of time harvesting and luck in getting foxfires to drop. My Mawdrey is infused (why wouldn’t it be) I would never stop at exotic when crafted backpieces have better stats than exo Mawdrey does.

Ranael.6423:

Sorry but when you raise a reputation in WoW to get a mini that you “hunt” by doing the same daily quest everyday for more than a month you call it a farm but doing so in GW2 you call it a grind…
Did you grind or hunt Mawdrey? Did you grind or hunt your Ascended gear?

Anyway you will reject that comment saying I just debate the semantic.

Mawdrey was a massive grind…. Are you saying otherwise? Good luck with Foxfires post nerf. Of course I bought half of mine on the TP as it’s nearly impossible to gather them on your own due to RNG.

You’re asking for regulatory help in order to increase the price of leather rather than decrease the price of cloth. Surely you haven’t banked a few stacks of Elonian Leather in anticipation of this change. Surely.

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Vayne.8563:

Sorry Tobias, I’m not arguing semantics at all. I said Anet said something which I know for a fact they said. That’s not a semantic argument. I simply won’t trawl through dozens of four year old videos to find the proof.

But that’s not a semantic argument. Anet did use the Shadow Behemoth as a specific example of what they meant when they were talking about not grinding to get to the fun stuff. They said you get the fun stuff throughout the game. It’s not like other games where you have to grind to level before you get to the fun stuff.

I’m sure I’m not the only guy who remembers, but how is that a semantic argument. Test is claiming it never happened. He’s wrong.

Oh, Vayne, my friend . . . there’s not the semantics being argued. And you’re losing yourself in the inconsequential bits of the argument by being just constantly distracted by remembering the Manifesto and other interviews and all that. They’re not important at all.

No, the heart of the matter is the semantics around the topic of “grind”. See, that’s where all the argument is springing from. Some people feel there is grind which is unavoidable, and some others . . . like myself . . . feel the grind exists but is unimportant to the game – a postscript, something to do while waiting for something else to do.

(Why else does Fractals exist other than sheer busywork?)

Whatever the Manifesto said is irrelevant. Even Colin, straight up, admitted there was a problem with how to acquire Ascended Gear. But also that he felt it didn’t betray the design ideals they developed under. I sort of agree. It’s grindy as Grenth’s molars. It’s also entirely unnecessary to see every aspect of the game.

But what I think doesn’t really matter either. It’s a distracting set of thoughts which basically draws away from the heart of the issue.

People feel there is grind. Others disagree on whether it matters, and thus it descends into semantics with tons of side-shows.

Honestly? I just want people to stop trying to make me ashamed for liking the game.

See when I see fans say someone is lying, and there are other explanations available, I want to make sure those other explanations are in plain site. Sure, the grind conversation is not furthered by this, nor is it furthered by calling people liars. I’m not even sure why that’s allowed, because it’s maligning something.

If what I say is true (and it is) then the definition of grind gets further enhancement from what was said back then. I mean you can hardly discuss grind without discussing what grind is and means.

Anet was pretty kitten ed clear back then, and just because some people don’t remember it, doesn’t mean it wasn’t said.

So yeah, maybe it is a distraction from the main argument, but knowing that that was at least part of what Anet meant, because they said so BACK THEN, does change the complexion of the argument.

you need to realize that advertising and marketing arent really expected to be truthful.

Anet is not going to be truthful in marketing and public face, when it doesnt suit their needs. Its peoples jobs to go out there and say what the company line is, even if it isnt accurate.
truth is when they were promoting the manifesto, they knew that it might not be how things were going to end up. They had already started to considering how and when to shift their options.

The manifesto is not the first inconsistency, it wont be the last.

So yeah, they were dishonest. Just accept it and move on. Is it shocking that company isnt truthful?

Not shocking at all. The only thing that I find disturbing is that fans defend it. With The xpac on the horizon their past actions are relevant.

KngGilgamesh.3481:

Aidenwolf.5964:

TexZero.7910:

Aidenwolf.5964:

3. New PVP map (Incorrect)
4. Mastery System (Incorrect) / They will have partial access.

WvW players might not have access to the new WvW map but ehh just live on EB and kill away.

WvW map will be on a rotation, and you will not need the expansion to play it.

If you have a link to that confirmation I’ll edit it.

I think it was in the interview with Jebro. https://youtu.be/Ucihndtkmcs?t=7m30s around here.

Editted cheers.

Vayne.8563:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Vayne.8563:

Sorry Tobias, I’m not arguing semantics at all. I said Anet said something which I know for a fact they said. That’s not a semantic argument. I simply won’t trawl through dozens of four year old videos to find the proof.

But that’s not a semantic argument. Anet did use the Shadow Behemoth as a specific example of what they meant when they were talking about not grinding to get to the fun stuff. They said you get the fun stuff throughout the game. It’s not like other games where you have to grind to level before you get to the fun stuff.

I’m sure I’m not the only guy who remembers, but how is that a semantic argument. Test is claiming it never happened. He’s wrong.

Oh, Vayne, my friend . . . there’s not the semantics being argued. And you’re losing yourself in the inconsequential bits of the argument by being just constantly distracted by remembering the Manifesto and other interviews and all that. They’re not important at all.

No, the heart of the matter is the semantics around the topic of “grind”. See, that’s where all the argument is springing from. Some people feel there is grind which is unavoidable, and some others . . . like myself . . . feel the grind exists but is unimportant to the game – a postscript, something to do while waiting for something else to do.

(Why else does Fractals exist other than sheer busywork?)

Whatever the Manifesto said is irrelevant. Even Colin, straight up, admitted there was a problem with how to acquire Ascended Gear. But also that he felt it didn’t betray the design ideals they developed under. I sort of agree. It’s grindy as Grenth’s molars. It’s also entirely unnecessary to see every aspect of the game.

But what I think doesn’t really matter either. It’s a distracting set of thoughts which basically draws away from the heart of the issue.

People feel there is grind. Others disagree on whether it matters, and thus it descends into semantics with tons of side-shows.

Honestly? I just want people to stop trying to make me ashamed for liking the game.

See when I see fans say someone is lying, and there are other explanations available, I want to make sure those other explanations are in plain site. Sure, the grind conversation is not furthered by this, nor is it furthered by calling people liars. I’m not even sure why that’s allowed, because it’s maligning something.

If what I say is true (and it is) then the definition of grind gets further enhancement from what was said back then. I mean you can hardly discuss grind without discussing what grind is and means.

Anet was pretty kitten ed clear back then, and just because some people don’t remember it, doesn’t mean it wasn’t said.

So yeah, maybe it is a distraction from the main argument, but knowing that that was at least part of what Anet meant, because they said so BACK THEN, does change the complexion of the argument.

You have the time to continually post saying you’re right but refuse to spend any of your time to Google and link this empirical data that proves your veracity and cements your forum supremacy? I’ve followed GW2 as long as you have if not longer and I recall the no grind interviews and my take away was always that GW2 was a game where everyone was equal at cap, no gear grind, it was about skill. I’ll put my memory against anyones.

LucosTheDutch.4819:

You’re right Test. But this horse has been beaten to death over and over and it doesn’t seem like Vayne wants to listen to reason.

I have another topic to discuss about regarding grind:

Would you guys be okay with grind if the content you’re grinding was more difficult, engaging or interesting? People seem to enjoy grinding the bejesus out of the Silverwastes map. Could it be because the Silverwastes is a more challenging map that also has a purpose and a bit of variety to it? I think so.

I personally don’t think GW2 is more grindy than other MMOs, but it feels like GW2 is more grindy because GW2’s content is limited, stale, predictable and too easy. What do you think?

You continue to assert that the manifesto didn’t reference gear grind. Colin specified in this very post that in fact gear was exactly what the manifesto meant. You’re stuck in a loop while the actual clarification you say is somewhere in cyber space that backs your claims is in fact on page 4 of this post and refutes your claims. Colin stated that the manifesto against grind did in fact mean gear grind. You’re not arguing semantics you’re arguing against confirmed fact.

azizul.8469:

HoT = Feature Pack + New Area + New Class.

feature pack like guild guild halls, mastery system and new pvp map should be available to all players regardless you have HoT or not.

Should be but won’t. Masteries are xpac only as are specializations which brings serious have vs have not into pvp if those are usable.

Hobo sacks make me sad. All Anet has to do is reskin the hobo sacks to different colored SAB backpacks or ANY other skin and the world would be a better place.

Wanze.8410:

I think all you are left to do is wait at the border of maguuma in dire hope of someone who bought HoT to come around and throw some bloodstone dust or spikes out of the jungle.

Or you could sit in Lion’s Arch and flip the trading post for a year until the expansion is 75% off

Calculate the cost for a full set of ascended armor. If you think that’s acceptable good for you. If you think it’s excessive I agree with you.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

As far as Living World updates, there are some conflicting statements about its future.

Here, Colin states LW will definitely continue in ‘Vanilla’ Tyria (around 6 minutes in):

http://www.gamebreaker.tv/news-main/mmorpg/guild-wars-2-heart-thorns-interview-game-director-colin-johanson/

And, I believe it is in the interview with Angry Joe that Colin states that the LW updates will be exclusively bound to the expansion.

Thus, hard to say what will happen with Living World/Story updates. =/

From what I understand is that LW for “Vanilla” means the recurring/holiday updates — no new stuff.

The LW updates from expac are the new stuffs they want to add.

It would surprise me because it would seperate the community behind a pay wall which sounds odd for old Anet but perhaps not new Anet.

TexZero.7910:

Aidenwolf.5964:

3. New PVP map (Incorrect)
4. Mastery System (Incorrect) / They will have partial access.

WvW players might not have access to the new WvW map but ehh just live on EB and kill away.

WvW map will be on a rotation, and you will not need the expansion to play it.

If you have a link to that confirmation I’ll edit it.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

As far as Living World updates, there are some conflicting statements about its future.

Here, Colin states LW will definitely continue in ‘Vanilla’ Tyria (around 6 minutes in):

http://www.gamebreaker.tv/news-main/mmorpg/guild-wars-2-heart-thorns-interview-game-director-colin-johanson/

And, I believe it is in the interview with Angry Joe that Colin states that the LW updates will be exclusively bound to the expansion.

Thus, hard to say what will happen with Living World/Story updates. =/

Nothing concrete but if they lock LS behind a second pay wall I’d be very surprised.

pdavis.8031:

Aidenwolf.5964:

pdavis.8031:

Aidenwolf.5964:

pdavis.8031:

Celtic Lady.3729:

That’s the thing with grind discussions. ArenaNet has a very narrow definition of grind that allows them to make their claims. But this gets lost in translation because the average MMO player doesn’t relegate the definition of grind to simply “leveling up” or “getting top gear.” Most people consider the game as a whole and when you do that, there is a lot of grindy stuff in GW2, so the game’s claim seems outrageously untrue to most people coming into the discussion.

And thats what I am trying to change. It’s a matter of perception. Although there are those who are claiming that you are forced to do specific things within the game in order to get BiS gear, I am contending that that isn’t true. And thus isn’t a grind, and thus Anet didn’t “lie” when they said they don’t want player to grind.

For whatever reason you’re missing the entire point here. As Colin clarified in this very post BiS gear was meant to be easily accessible to everyone. That changed with ascended which is a monster grind. You yourself said you’ve worked 2 months on 1 piece of ascended, so at your pace, that’s a year for a set.

And? Am I forced to do certain content, or kill certain enemies, or play any particular game mode? Not in the slightest. Ascended is easily accessible. I can get all the materials playing whatever I want, doing whatever I want, in-game. Period. However, easily accessible does not mean quick to get. And thats where the disconnect is. Easily accessible means anyone and everyone can get it. Does it take long getting the stuff “naturally”? Of course, but thats not the issue. It still can be done without having to do anything special.

You’re coming around.

Not really. Time involved does not equal grind. If I feel I need to get it to be competitive in WvW, or to run high level fractals, or to be that much more effective in PvE, then sure, I can grind it out in a shorter amount of time. But that isn’t the point.

The main point that keeps getting brought up is Anet lied when they said no grind. And ascended “quickly” equals grind, thus Anet lied. Anyone can get ascended. No one is required to to anything special to get ascended, other than play the game. No one ever said that it was supposed to be a fast process. Anet certainly didn’t, and never implied that it was. So if I can get ascended equipment just by playing the game, how has Anet lied?

Did Anet go against their manifesto by adding gear grind?
Obviously

I’m more concerned with changes to loot that have gone haywire and made ascended much more of a grind. The changes to level specific loot when down leveled, the 4 scraps for 1 bolt of silk, and 100 bolts of silk for Dams.

You’re arguing against the word grind (which is subjective) but failing to acknowledge evidence presented to answer questions you pose. I will no longer respond to you

Shiyo.3578:

Page 18, john still not has answered why damask is still 100 bolts of silk instead of 50 when silk is so expensive compared to other t5 mats and every other ascended item is only 50.

Or why a bolt of silk requires 4 scraps to make.

pdavis.8031:

Aidenwolf.5964:

pdavis.8031:

Celtic Lady.3729:

That’s the thing with grind discussions. ArenaNet has a very narrow definition of grind that allows them to make their claims. But this gets lost in translation because the average MMO player doesn’t relegate the definition of grind to simply “leveling up” or “getting top gear.” Most people consider the game as a whole and when you do that, there is a lot of grindy stuff in GW2, so the game’s claim seems outrageously untrue to most people coming into the discussion.

And thats what I am trying to change. It’s a matter of perception. Although there are those who are claiming that you are forced to do specific things within the game in order to get BiS gear, I am contending that that isn’t true. And thus isn’t a grind, and thus Anet didn’t “lie” when they said they don’t want player to grind.

For whatever reason you’re missing the entire point here. As Colin clarified in this very post BiS gear was meant to be easily accessible to everyone. That changed with ascended which is a monster grind. You yourself said you’ve worked 2 months on 1 piece of ascended, so at your pace, that’s a year for a set.

And? Am I forced to do certain content, or kill certain enemies, or play any particular game mode? Not in the slightest. Ascended is easily accessible. I can get all the materials playing whatever I want, doing whatever I want, in-game. Period. However, easily accessible does not mean quick to get. And thats where the disconnect is. Easily accessible means anyone and everyone can get it. Does it take long getting the stuff “naturally”? Of course, but thats not the issue. It still can be done without having to do anything special.

You’re coming around.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Aidenwolf.5964:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Specializations require the xpac purchase.
Masteries require the xpac purchase.
Revenent requires the purchase.
Any future living story releases will require the xpac purchase

The new WvW maps and PvP mode; however, do not. This is done to not split the playbase of these modes.

This has all been confirmed in the assorted blogs and PAX interviews (and we were discussing some of it in a different thread already)

Edit: As for what that means for “vanilla” players… not much really. Life should pretty much continue as per usual, except they’ll now see specialized classes and revenents joining in their parties.

I’ve seen nothing anywhere that stated this and would be surprised if that’s the case.

grumble I’ll see if I can hunt it up again.

I think I need to just starting keeping notes for easier reference.

I’ll add it if you can find it.

pdavis.8031:

Celtic Lady.3729:

That’s the thing with grind discussions. ArenaNet has a very narrow definition of grind that allows them to make their claims. But this gets lost in translation because the average MMO player doesn’t relegate the definition of grind to simply “leveling up” or “getting top gear.” Most people consider the game as a whole and when you do that, there is a lot of grindy stuff in GW2, so the game’s claim seems outrageously untrue to most people coming into the discussion.

And thats what I am trying to change. It’s a matter of perception. Although there are those who are claiming that you are forced to do specific things within the game in order to get BiS gear, I am contending that that isn’t true. And thus isn’t a grind, and thus Anet didn’t “lie” when they said they don’t want player to grind.

For whatever reason you’re missing the entire point here. As Colin clarified in this very post BiS gear was meant to be easily accessible to everyone. That changed with ascended which is a monster grind. You yourself said you’ve worked 2 months on 1 piece of ascended, so at your pace, that’s a year for a set.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Specializations require the xpac purchase.
Masteries require the xpac purchase.
Revenent requires the purchase.
Any future living story releases will require the xpac purchase

The new WvW maps and PvP mode; however, do not. This is done to not split the playbase of these modes.

This has all been confirmed in the assorted blogs and PAX interviews (and we were discussing some of it in a different thread already)

Edit: As for what that means for “vanilla” players… not much really. Life should pretty much continue as per usual, except they’ll now see specialized classes and revenents joining in their parties.

I’ve seen nothing anywhere that stated this and would be surprised if that’s the case.

Celtic Lady.3729:

I’d be surprised if specializations weren’t gated behind the new expansion.

As would I but didn’t find any confirmation. If I do, I’ll add it.

Andred.1087:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Andred.1087:

Do you think there will be that many who don’t buy it? I would guess a very large majority of anybody who is still actively playing will buy it, because if you plan on continuing to play the game, why would you not get the expansion? Aside from not having the money right away, but let’s be serious, it probably won’t be more than $40.

Well I personally know many players who’ve quit so they won’t buy it unless they come back to test the game first. Let’s say they reinstall the game post xpac to see what the game is like first, which is would make sense. There are players who will refuse on principal as they thought they wouldn’t have to buy an xpac ever possibly.

Again, I’m talking about people who still play. Obviously people who quit aren’t going to buy it. And before there’s any miscommunication about that, when I say “quit” I mean “quit and aren’t coming back for anything.”

You’re well understood I assure you but xpacs have a habit of making long gone players look at the game they’ve left.

conradpedalo.5381:

From what I read ‘vanilla gw2’ will have access to new wvw & pvp stronghold maps. They just won’t access to region specific masteries, specialization & living world updates.

The link below seems to confirm that masteries are HoT only.

Mireles Lore.5942:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/reimagining-progression-the-mastery-system/

Its not very clear but under the question “How do I get masterys?” It says the ability to trait them is unlocked for all players that own Heart of Thorns. Also I think its been mentioned on a interview.

Yes they are expanded to the core game but they made it sound like you have to own the expansion.

This was my understanding as well but I only added what I’ve seen confirmed. I’ve editted accordingly.

Andred.1087:

Do you think there will be that many who don’t buy it? I would guess a very large majority of anybody who is still actively playing will buy it, because if you plan on continuing to play the game, why would you not get the expansion? Aside from not having the money right away, but let’s be serious, it probably won’t be more than $40.

Well I personally know many players who’ve quit so they won’t buy it unless they come back to test the game first. Let’s say they reinstall the game post xpac to see what the game is like first, which is would make sense. There are players who will refuse on principal as they thought they wouldn’t have to buy an xpac ever possibly.

Mireles Lore.5942:

I believe it was also mentioned that you wont have access to mastery ans specialization features as well.

Mastery is going game wide I’m sure I’ve heard them say I think you may be right about specializations though.

When Heart of Thorns (or as Angry Joe continually called it while standing next to Colin “Hearts of Thorn”) releases there will undoubtedly be many players of GW2 who don’t immediately or ever buy the xpac. My question is simple one, what will life in game be like for those players who don’t purchase it?

From what we’ve been told they will not have access to the following (correct me If I’m wrong)

1. Revenant class
2. New map area
3. Specializations
4. Mastery System

The mastery system will be introduced game wide but only to those with the xpac but I’m certain many lines will be new map specific so players without it won’t get and won’t need those anyways.

If you run dungeons or fractals life without the xpac shouldn’t have an impact as they’ve announced nothing new for either of those modes.

WvW players might not have access to the new WvW map but ehh just live on EB and kill away.

It will be interesting to see what life is like without HoT.

tigirius.9014:

John Smith.4610:

Still catching up, but I wanted to stop to be clear. No to this. This doesn’t happen, it’s a cognitive bias. There’s virtually no DR active on any given day.

Please explain how DR doesn’t occur when loads of skulls start appearing from standard loot rolls in events and when something somewhere on server side is causing whole chests to not be visible anymore? If it’s not DR you’ve got a serious ongoing problem with the algorithm you’re using for the loot i’d say because it’s absolutely not in our heads when we can check and see this happening on a daily basis. There’s also the issue of unlucky accounts, in while whole accounts once skulls begin to drop and chests begin to disappear, are plagued with an ongoing lack of meaningful loot from events week after week. If that’s not DR then someone there needs to do something about the basic loot system because it’s not normal sorry.

It becomes a problem when people can’t farm for the most basic of items to get what they need to progress in anything including gearing or leveling crafting on these accounts.

I don’t know about the rest of you but when I look in my wallet after being paid and there’s no money there but it’s filled with lint I wouldn’t call that cognitive bias would you?

The man in charge of the game’s economy sees nothing wrong with the system he oversees. From the point of view of an unlucky account holder this looks to be the real cognitive bias.

Lambent.6375:

Aidenwolf.5964:

dietzero.3514:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Just turn off show emotes in the chat pane. Seriously.

What an incredibly shortsighted and ridiculous response. Emotes are a part of the game, and even NPCs use them. Having to turn them off because some people spam a million a second is NOT a viable option, and should not be suggested.

Short sighted and ridiculous? You’re kittened off by emotes and want a game mechanic introduced while the devs are working on the expansion when all you have to do is uncheck one box in the chat window to completely shut down seeing the activity that has you kittened off. Simply turn off emotes until the player is gone then turn it back on. I fail to share your outrage.

I don’t think people should be forced to turn off their emotes just because some people want to spam an emote over and over so everything else on the chat is instantly removed from the screen.

The OP wants to play hall monitor reporting people for emoting too much (which is subjective). No one us forcing anyone to do anything. Change maps, block emotes, block the player, or turn off your computer they all work

Panites.6798:

Holy trinity just wouldn’t work in GW2, and people don’t want it to work. For holy trinity you NEED a dungeon gear grind and time sink. GW2 has none of that and i’m glad, ive spent too many hours grinding for some kittenty gear just so i can then grind for better gear to do the next dungeon. Its stupidly boring and only certain people who have been forced into thinking this is end game enjoy it.

End game is the worst idea developers have put into any MMO players minds. It refers to running dungeons/raids hundreds of times to get gear that everyone else is also mindlessly grinding for. Its just boring and the only way to keep you in the game is because it is so called ‘End Game’ that everyone else is brain washed into thinking that its cool.

Holy trinity is boring and would make this game worse, would lose half the mechanics that make it NOT a holy trinity and then just a regular grind kittenty game.

PvE is easy in any game after you run it 3+ times.

Not true at all. The trinity means dedicated healers tanks and DPS gear grinding for top level stats is raiding which I think you’re referring to inadvertently. Btw we already have that it’s called ascended.

Max gear a year ago is still max gear. Unless you think exotics are max gear in which case you weren’t maxed a year ago either.

dietzero.3514:

Aidenwolf.5964:

Just turn off show emotes in the chat pane. Seriously.

What an incredibly shortsighted and ridiculous response. Emotes are a part of the game, and even NPCs use them. Having to turn them off because some people spam a million a second is NOT a viable option, and should not be suggested.

Short sighted and ridiculous? You’re kittened off by emotes and want a game mechanic introduced while the devs are working on the expansion when all you have to do is uncheck one box in the chat window to completely shut down seeing the activity that has you kittened off. Simply turn off emotes until the player is gone then turn it back on. I fail to share your outrage.

pdavis.8031:

Aidenwolf.5964:

pdavis.8031:

Aidenwolf.5964:

pdavis.8031:

Again. It is not a required grind. The key word is “required.” The problem is that people feel that they need X “right now” and because of that, tend to grind for gold to be able to buy it off the TP faster. And most of the time the item they are going after isn’t much more than a skin change. So people feel that everything is a grind because they feel they need it ASAP. But what if I were to tell you , you didn’t “need” X item to be able to play and enjoy the game?
The gem conversion was introduced so players can get what they want by spending money. They could bypass the percieve required grind, and just straight out buy it. Or if there was something in the gem store they wanted they could use in-game gold to get it. Provided yet another way to be able to get anything and everything inside the game without having to grind. (Of course with the exception of ascended gear, as some of what is required is account bound.)

So in the end. You don’t need to grind gold, or mats, or anything else if you don’t want to.

You do If you want to make ascended gear. This is a fact and arguing against facts doesn’t change them.

What part of crafting ascended gear requires a grind?
Cloth? Can get as drops from almost every enemy.
Ascended mats? (i.e. bloodstone, empyreal fragments, dragonite.) Come from a variety of sources, and that abundantly. None of which I need to do repeteivly in order to get.
Recipes? Get laurals just from logging in.

Cloth absolutely requires a grind either in gold or materials. To say otherwise makes no sense to anyone. Ascended materials are easy but cloth and leather require massive amounts of lower mats that must be grinder or purchased in quanties that require vast amounts of gold.

It’s only a grind if you feel the need to get it ASAP. I think I’ve been working on my current light ascended piece for about 2 months now? And am almost done with it. Did I need to spend countless hours doing the same thing over and over to get it? nope. (Although to be fair, I have been running alot of SW lately. LOVE THAT MAP!! Plus it gives a great amount of silk.)

So your saying that one cannot get the required amount of cloth/leather just by playing the game? Why not? ~1/3 of all armor drops give cloth. (salvaging), bags and salavagables also provide cloth. Map completion provides cloth. So I can get all the cloth I need simply by playing the game. Is it going to take longer? Absolutely. But that doesn’t mean I am forced into repeating stuff (aka grinding) JUST to get the materials needed.

All evidence to the contrary but continue to white night in the face of evidence. Your arguments continue to be (not just in this thread) that you don’t have to grind if you don’t want to but you’ve made a critical error here. Ascended light armor is very expensive because the cloth used to make it and even the leather to a lesser degree require either a large sum of gold or time to acquire. You mention silk from SW but fail to mention cotton and linen (forget about those?). As you’ve stated just now you’re working on your ascended for the past 2 months which is counter to your claim that it’s easy.

pdavis.8031:

Aidenwolf.5964:

pdavis.8031:

Again. It is not a required grind. The key word is “required.” The problem is that people feel that they need X “right now” and because of that, tend to grind for gold to be able to buy it off the TP faster. And most of the time the item they are going after isn’t much more than a skin change. So people feel that everything is a grind because they feel they need it ASAP. But what if I were to tell you , you didn’t “need” X item to be able to play and enjoy the game?
The gem conversion was introduced so players can get what they want by spending money. They could bypass the percieve required grind, and just straight out buy it. Or if there was something in the gem store they wanted they could use in-game gold to get it. Provided yet another way to be able to get anything and everything inside the game without having to grind. (Of course with the exception of ascended gear, as some of what is required is account bound.)

So in the end. You don’t need to grind gold, or mats, or anything else if you don’t want to.

You do If you want to make ascended gear. This is a fact and arguing against facts doesn’t change them.

What part of crafting ascended gear requires a grind?
Cloth? Can get as drops from almost every enemy.
Ascended mats? (i.e. bloodstone, empyreal fragments, dragonite.) Come from a variety of sources, and that abundantly. None of which I need to do repeteivly in order to get.
Recipes? Get laurals just from logging in.

Cloth absolutely requires a grind either in gold or materials. To say otherwise makes no sense to anyone. Ascended materials are easy but cloth and leather require massive amounts of lower mats that must be grinder or purchased in quanties that require vast amounts of gold.

pdavis.8031:

Again. It is not a required grind. The key word is “required.” The problem is that people feel that they need X “right now” and because of that, tend to grind for gold to be able to buy it off the TP faster. And most of the time the item they are going after isn’t much more than a skin change. So people feel that everything is a grind because they feel they need it ASAP. But what if I were to tell you , you didn’t “need” X item to be able to play and enjoy the game?
The gem conversion was introduced so players can get what they want by spending money. They could bypass the percieve required grind, and just straight out buy it. Or if there was something in the gem store they wanted they could use in-game gold to get it. Provided yet another way to be able to get anything and everything inside the game without having to grind. (Of course with the exception of ascended gear, as some of what is required is account bound.)

So in the end. You don’t need to grind gold, or mats, or anything else if you don’t want to.

You do If you want to make ascended gear. This is a fact and arguing against facts doesn’t change them.