Guild Wars 2

I personally spent most of my story mission confused…

Something along the lines of this question:
“But Jeff Grubb is a better writer than this?”

Prophet.6954:

How does flooding the market with exotics become a win win? Just as with any zone completion reward, it isn’t relevant if it’s a weapon the person can use, thanks to the trading post. And flooding the market with exotics, means a realistic increase in flooding the market with legendary precursors. Some dungeons are very easy, and take a mere 30 minutes with a good group. Some have a much higher difficulty and can be upwards of hr and a half. Having that small amount of effort, not only provide exp, karma, and tokens, but now exotics too, just seems like even more of a fail on the economy. As it is, most mmos’ don’t provide ANY guaranteed rewards. They give us tokens that not only are gauranteed, but that we can use to buy the armour or weapons we want. I don’t think any more is needed?

I’ve been level 80 since mid september. I’ve probably leveled 40+ times. I’m still at 50% world completion, I’ve just recently spent the effort to get a mix of exotic dungeon gear, and exotic crafted gear I crafted myself. What do I do now? I’m going to finish my personal story, finish world completion, finish a few remaining dungeons on story line. In there and ongoing I’m going to mix in some pvp and WvW. Then I’m going to play some different races and classes…and do more of the same.

Not sure anything else is needed? As I do this, I’ll obtain the gold to get Tier3 Armour, if thats my fancy, or Arah Dungeon armour, if thats my fancy and have multiple armour sets, and 20 slot bags and the like…

Your selfish approach to the suggestion also doesn’t help anyone either. Essentially all you seem to raise here is that “you didn’t need it” and it “it’s going to flood the market with exotics.”

The first is meaningless to my suggestion as quite clearly I am trying to address an issue for players who are having issues with the lack of reward and the perceived grind. By adding a middle ground. It’s wonderful that you are enjoying the game as it is. But you aren’t the only person playing.

The second I already factored in by making these exotics account bound and having a unique skin. Therefore not directly affecting the market and giving them an incentive to be collected for cosmetic players. You can easily price their vendor selling price at a price that doesn’t effect the economy harshly.

And due to the randomised nature of having to consider six insignia types, three armor types and nineteen weapon types for six armor slots, six weapon slots and five jewelry slots.
(6 × 3 × 6) + (6 × 19) + (6 × 5) = 792 possible items per reward.

Meaning there would be a slim chance you’ll acquire something useful, but it is that slim chance that will encourage people to do things that they are currently shunning as a rewardless grind.

Prophet.6954:

How are we not rewarded along the way for exotic dungeon armour? You can get half your armour, in 1 stretch of 3 paths @ 60 tokens a path = 180. Do it with 3 characters in a day, and have 360 (they are account bound now, after all) and that is enough for even the most expensive chest pieces, and most of the individual items like gloves and helm, and boots can be had for under 180. And we get karma, and we get exp, and we get gold, and we get drops, for running the dungeon?

The only dungeon that is truly ‘prestigious’ in my own personal opinion is arah, due to its dungeon feeling difficulty. You compare a COF run at 30 minutes with a solid group, and that same group might take hr and a half on Arah (cursed shore dungeon).

I think it’s fine as is. And, you can craft exotic armour as well if you don’t want to do the dungeon grind, for yet even more unique sets, or buy karma vendor armour in places like Cursed Shore.

Sorry but this doesn’t encourage people to do things… That is the aim here… Mid level rewards that encourage.

Playing for fun sadly doesn’t seem to be enough for some people. My aim with this is to help those people get into places they will enjoy. While overall increasing the player flow through dungeons and large scale events.
This is a win-win for everyone.

Only if thieves get a backflip/forward flip.

If so then definitely!

At 80 a lot of people are feeling a disparity between the time it takes to get a full rare set and the time it takes to acquire prestige armor. Now what i’d like to point out first, is this is not to address that time. But instead suggest a medium level of content between them.

Currently people who want dungeon prestige armor are seeing it as a massive grind because they aren’t being rewarded for their time until a long time has past.

So my suggestion is that you add a single, account bound, guaranteed, random exotic drop at the end of every dungeon. (with a unique skin just for these kinds of drops of course!)
And within every chest of a level 80 epic event. (such as events that are key to area progression, like the temples in Orr)

Now bear in mind this will still be a randomised drop, so there is a slim chance it will be something someone needs.

However this will encourage everyone to participate in this content.
It won’t devalue exotics greatly, due to the bound and random nature.
And it will give everyone an additional way to work towards their static cap.
Meanwhile it would give people that slight push to get them into dungeons and act as a midway content between the basic level 80 and working towards prestigious gear.

I honestly hope you consider this devs, because it seems to be a simple solution to a massive problem. With very little/no draw backs.

dimgl.4786:

arctorius.3025:

I too find myself wanting more to do. In WoWs endgame I know that everything I’m doing is leading up to endgame raiding because that’s what I always did. In this game I have no idea what I’m doing. Although I’m finding my perspective is changing the more time I spend in game.

I haven’t run out of things to do per se. After getting to 80 I maxed out my disciplines (chef/ws) then I dropped chef, picked up Armorsmith and maxed that out. Now I’m working on making my exotic gear. At first this meant farming Orr until I realized that some of the mid level mats go for a descent price so I’ve moved to doing zone completion and selling what I gather on the TP. Then I use that money to buy mats for my exotics.

I think something a lot of people aren’t realizing is it’s not efficient to farm for a specific mat. Your best bet is to run around doing other things like zone completion, following event chains, and playing a little game I call follow the nodes. Selling the gathered materials then allows you to buy what you need on the TP.

Are you aware WoW’s endgame only flourished almost a year after its release? Vanilla WoW literally had one fifteen man raid. It wasn’t until the Molten Core patch that they released 40 mans, and even then it was the only endgame content until future patches.

See you are under the same misconception I was…
Little research and I found out that both molten core and onyxia were launched at release. However due to their steep attunements, very few groups had even got organised and in yet, let alone beaten anything.

This being said, this really isn’t on topic so I’ll try to bring it back a little bit.
What you item progressionists fail to realise is, arenanet did add item progression into the game. Only it has a static cap and end game playing isn’t solely focused on one single progression mechanic; Item progression.

If you really cannot enjoy a game for what it is, and absolutely require rewards of value to you for everything you do. And item progression through increasingly nicer cosmetic armors isn’t good enough for you.

Then I am afraid to say its time to play something else for a while and come back when their first monthly chapter of content is released.

Velvet.4678:

I have leveled a Thief to 80 and find that there is nothing to attract me to the game anymore. I mostly play PvP in MMOs but since there is no real gear progression like in WoW I am not drawn to it. I am unable to play PvP simply for “fun” because the fun for me is in the progression. PvE does not offer anything that interests me either.

That said, I do love the combat, graphics style and surprisingly, leveling. Leveling in this game is the funnest thing for me so far, but with nothing to look forward to at the top of the ladder, that too loses purpose.

I would suggest Arenanet to add more endgame material.

Here’s the thing… You’ve already clarified that you only find fun in item progression. And arenanets design philosophy is essentially against this. So how will adding more end game content help solve your problem?
This isn’t to say I don’t want more content, I do… I’m just curious as to how that will help your situation in any way?

Arson.4189:

Lol alice. I think maybe the years have gotten to you.

MC was available upon release. Sounds like you don’t know much.
My guild was the FIRST guild to down Rag worldwide. April 25th, 2005.
WoW was released in November 2004. 5 months it took to complete the dungeon. People completed the dungeons and quit this game within a 1 month.

Umma actually I think the only one that wasn’t available upon release there was Dire maul.

And yes WoW had bugs. In 2004.

It’s 2012 btw the standards of MMO’s has changed a lil. So whos talkin crap? me who knows the facts or you who has no concept of time.

All games have bugs, the date they release is irrelevant. Wasn’t so long ago fallout new vegas released… That was buggy as hell.

You are right about the core and so on, seems I was being thrown off because of attunements.
This being said, it still had considerably less content.
And Maraudon and Dire maul were definitely content patches according to the official site. Maraudon was 1.1 and dire maul was 1.2.

Arson.4189:

PVE is lacking. WoW Vanilla had triple the amount of PVE on release. 8 10 years ago?

PVP is a invisible ghostfight lag fest

Really the game is messing up on both front’s right now which is not good. People don’t want to pve because the lil content they can do is boring and repetitive.

Nobody want’s to pvp because when it boils down too it people actually want skill in pvp. Zerging into a group an wiping them not because your awesome but because your invisible to them is a joke.

As someone who played WoW at release please don’t talk kittens.

V1. WoW lacked alot of content, most of the dungeons were buggy. Maraudon, Scholomance, LBRS/UBRS and Dire Maul were content patches that appeared weeks/months later. And the first raid didn’t appear for a very very long time.

Sarisa.4731:

Just for number’s sake, 93% of the world completion is PvE only. 7% is WvW.

Knew it was close to 10% as that’s about what I gained for doing it. Thanks for the clarification.

ProxiiG.5830:

… and here is why: snip.

You notice how it’s called 100% map completion and not 100% pve map completion. There is a good reason for that.

You are making the mistake of assuming since 90% of the map completion medal is PvE therefore it is meant to be solely for PvE players. This is a misconception on your part and not the games.

While I sort of agree with your statement about map completionists filling up WvWvW slots. It’s quite unlikely that a large amount of them are all going to be filling out the map all at exactly the same time.

Sefan.5791:

So i would say that it is not much Endgame in this game, You dont get any new things to do at 80. It is just the same things you can do at lvl 30 (you get first Dungeon on 30) just little harder.

Fairly sure they said from the beginning the whole game was end game… Now you might actually understand what they were saying.

Mada.5319:

Well, we don’t even know what the particle effects are like for most of the legendaries. Wait and see, they could be better than you expect.

Something that requires that much effort shouldn’t be a wait and see affair… You really should know exactly what you are working your kitten off for before hand.

Kimbald.2697:

What I read from the OP is that it’s less a matter of liking them or not. Some do, some don’t.
But it’s all a matter of choice.

If you are going through the trouble for a legendary, than some more choices could be nice.
It’s not about their stats after all, looks are their main selling point.

Let’s hope more models are introduced in the future.
Personally I don’t understand either why such items based on looks, have only so limited options in that… for now.

For me looks are very important in a game. Transmogging got me back into Wow after a break, just that… And I quite like a lot of the customisable features in GW2.
The key word for me here is: diversity.
Customisation of characters should not lead to all looking the same.
Legendaries tend to do that since there aren’t many models.

Choice would definitely solve the problem entirely… And I dare say there is a lack of choice with legendaries at the moment.

No doubt as more content is added new legendaries will surface. But it’d be nice in future if there were a greater choice when adding legendary items.

Create new folder inside your screenshot folder… Label with date… Copy all screenshots into folder. Problem solved.

Kimbald.2697:

Alice and Garo: where are your suggestions than?
What do you bring to this thread?

This is not meant as an insult, it’s a friendly question to stay on topic.

The suggestions forum, where they belong?

AlexanderFaust.4518:

If you would like to see a good example of Action Combat with “weight” ~ check out this vid of C9.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsxTJPLCJt4

I don’t see any weight in this combat, this is all just needless hitstun. Excessive hitstun does not make good combat.

Kimbald.2697:

Snip

To be honest a lot of the threads I catch you in are about diminishing returns. Full of hype, misinformation, subjective opinion and sensationalism.

These are not conducive methods of giving constructive criticism. They are designed to organise rabble rousing and cause the misinformed to get up in arms about things they don’t understand to try and bully a change through.

This rhetoric is not positive for the community and will not actually achieve anything other than informing the misinformed with negative information.

As a thief, the legendaries available to me look boring.

Bolt looks like a high level item sure, but a legendary? When you compare most of the effort put into twilight and sunrise to the other items they feel very lackluster.

And Quip, seriously? Give us a 10 inch barrel magnum revolver that shoots sniper rounds and we’d be all over it. But Quip looks like a water pistol and is easily overshadowed by lesser models.

Unless these weapons have very unique special effects, which is possible. I fail to see what is legendary about them.

The dagger, incinerator I think it’s called. Is just a blowtorch being wielded like a dagger. It’s overly bulky design and might suit a charr perhaps. But it doesn’t resemble the amount of effort required to acquire it.

The shortbow, the dreamer. Probably the only one worth getting and that’s mostly to troll people in wvwvw with bouncing rainbows of death.

Logan Thackery: No further jokes necessary.

Apos.5184:

So that gets us where? To the draconian diminishing returns that you have instituted upon everyone in order to counter bots who partially ruin your income.

I love the needless slip in of the word Draconian there. If the Diminishing Returns were truly as hideous as people claim, the forums would contain alot more than the occasional hostile post about DR. I’ve actively tried to trigger DR and I can’t seem to do it. I’m sitting in Orr in maximum magic find, pistol whipping 5 zombies that spawn instantly for 2 hours and nothing. I’m still getting loot. So the only conclusions I can come too from my personal experiences is this. Either the code is buggy, which is unlikely since it’s such a simple thing to impliment. Or the players who are “triggering it after 30 minutes of grinding” are using some really hardcore grinding methods.

I’m not sure what kind of economy advisors you have, but basic maths and logic say that losing 20% of a huge pie is less than losing 10% of a small pie.

Here you presume to know numbers you have no way of having access too. This is a bias you’ll now continue to fall into for the rest of the post.

Don’t act like you know everything on how to counter bots. Most of your players has been into this genre for more than 7-10 years and we all know one fact. That you can’t eradicate bots.

Wow… just wow… This comes across as incredibly arrogant and nothing more. There is no wisdom behind these words. As a player who has been playing MMOs for said time. Let me correct you… Yes you cannot eradicate bots. But failure to impliment measures to deal with them and constant removal of accounts that do. Will eventually cause them to utterly overrun your game. Just because you cannot stop the tide, doesn’t mean you shouldn’t flood prevention.

You want to earn an income? snip

So now you’ve done being needless hostile we get your ‘suggestion’ though it still comes across as needlessly antagonistic.

Yet you keep punishing them for something they are not responsible.

Exploiting dungeons, exploiting the grubs in Orr, exploiting whatever is a despicable act. But when someone commits a crime, you do not punish the whole city that said person lives in,you punish that person and that person alone.

This entire post seems like two separate posts mashed together. One post where you irrationally attack arenanet with absurdities like this. And another where you request cosmetic character redesign methods through the gem store. I can only assume you threw the latter in, in the vain hope that your antagonism wouldn’t get your post deleted instantly.

This is a wake up call and I hope you get it. Start working on giving the players a reason to buy stuff off you instead of punishing them because a few people are taking some of your income away.

Unless you don’t want to keep your pie of money going, it’s already shrinking and I’m sure you have noticed. Don’t you think that this is what you should focus on? You can’t eradicate pests, so stop trying to save the rotten food they eat, try serving more fresh food to everyone instead.

This isn’t a wake up call, it’s a very badly written rant and suggestion mashed into one post. Trying to demand the suggestion with an antagonistic and hostile tone. While trying to back it all up with imaginary slices of pie.

You may wish to rethink your method of making suggestions. I hear polite and constructive posts with no baseless assertions are very popular these days.

Scera.9746:

Well, is there really that big of a difference between “kill 20 Orc Marauders”/“bring me 15 Scarlett Badges” and “kill enemies and destroy their supplies until this yellow bar fills up” ? The only real difference is that you don’t have to go talk to the quest guy before and after, which is bad in my opinion, because then you’re only experiencing the middle of a story, and not the beginning or ending.

That you choose not to go talk to the relevant NPCs and learn about the world/situation around you. Is a fault on you and not the game for giving you the choice. What you are essentially saying is you expect the choice removed and expect to be forced to view all the content otherwise you will be too absent to do it yourself.

This kinda demonstrates your mindset is still stuck in the progression of games that do not allow choice.

Nothing you’ve said here actually helps any one Dagins and simply comes across as deliberately antagonistic.
If you are willing to post this much, post a build and your general strategy. Or heck, just explain how you are dealing damage with no crit or power.

All you have really done is demonstrated is that thieves can only function on extremes. “All in damage” “All in toughness/vit” as I clearly mentioned the main issue is that thieves lack flexibility and can only make up for their weaknesses by going to extreme builds. How exactly is anything you’ve said, disproven that?

I also note your main stratagy is running away… Which makes you unreliable in group pvp. Since your main advantage is running away at the first sign of a disadvantage.

lighterdark.5307:

Alice.8694:

lighterdark.5307:

I have on as well, what weapons do you use?

Fort wall defence: Pistols for single targets/shortbow for groups.
Assassination: Dagger, Dagger. Sword, Pistol.
Fort attack: Sit back, get a deck chair and a box of popcorn and let the classes with survivability and group combat viability do the work. Maybe defend the siege weaponry from strike teams if they try by being behind the siege line. If you really must get involved: shortbow clusterbomb the enemy front line.

May I see you D/D S/P build?

Yes if I remember this thread by tomorrow. It’s 4am here and I don’t have it in linkable form.

lighterdark.5307:

I have on as well, what weapons do you use?

Fort wall defence: Pistols for single targets/shortbow for groups.
Assassination: Dagger, Dagger. Sword, Pistol.
Fort attack: Sit back, get a deck chair and a box of popcorn and let the classes with survivability and group combat viability do the work. Maybe defend the siege weaponry from strike teams if they try by being behind the siege line. If you really must get involved: shortbow clusterbomb the enemy front line.

lighterdark.5307:

Well I just got some exotic 80 pistols because i was bored and i really like the P/P combo for the thief… the problem is I really havent found a solid guide or build that is focused on straight dmg instead of cond. dmg. Is there any other P/P users who dont mind posting a build, or just talking about their experience in pvp with the P/P combo.

My guide would be; “get a shortbow instead”

Let the meta game evolve for a bit, and people will learn how to counter the current popular builds with ease. They’re really not THAT strong.

Alright but my point is… That will leave the thief in the situation where it is mostly only effective with 2 easily and well known builds. And lacks the strength to be flexible with its builds compared to the other classes.

An example is my ranger… Just with one weapon I have access to many build ideas, all of which seem to preform very well and have access to numerous flexable traits and utilities.

The thief on the other hand, we have people pushing as much attack as they can while maintaining some durability. Simply because if our first gambit fails, we are dead in the water until we can prepare a second bout. So our first gambit cannot fail, hence the high damage focus of these two builds.

The only skill involved in thief at the moment seems to be picking the cookie cutter build of your choice and learning how to:
A, set someone up for an instant gibbing.
B, retreating to the shadows when successful or if you fail.

For a class called “Thief” it certainly acts more like an Assassin.

Ten.8421:

I don’t know… It really bugs me that the HoM pet skins are included as separate pets in my pet tab, making me feel like I am somehow incomplete as a Ranger without them. But that’s just my OCD tendencies, not really an argument for anything.

Personally, I give akittenif the player next to me got her tabby from playing GW1, or from using the gem store. I don’t connect any sort of pride to my HoM stuff. I just got what I could because I liked the items. shrug

The HoM pets are seperate pets… They even have their own unique skills.

But no, definitely not.
HoM was a reward for players who achieved things in their previous game. That’s a nice sentiment that would be ruined by making it a cash shop function.

You can always go back and experience the awesomeness of GW1.

Deepsky.6083:

How 2x reg?i take only 1,which traits are you using?

That would be… Give allies regeneration for 5 seconds and gain regeneration while in stealth I believe.

This data isn’t very helpful…

What runes were you wearing when you tested the amulets?
What amulets were you wearing when you tested the runes?

So I tried the two main builds for insta-gibbing and found them to be viciously effective but really really boring. (Those are the pistol whip and backstab/heartstrike.)

I’ve tried experimenting with bleeding, which seems to be the least effective method of killing anyone.
Venomancer Aura build with Lyssa’s runes because every buff for 5 seconds every 31 seconds is awesome.
Pistol/Pistol and shortbow and the main thing I found was shortbow felt consistently more powerful than unload. Which just flops over pathetically when encountering any amount of toughness.
And many other ideas such as signet based builds or trap based builds.

The main thing that seems apparent to me is that if you aren’t rolling a fully optimal cookie-cutter pistol whip or backstab build. Every class will out last and out gun you. With maybe the exception of necromancers. Sorry necros, but i’m beating you on the weakest build I came up with… pistol/pistol, pistol/dagger.

The point of traits was so that we wouldn’t devolve into obvious cookiecutter builds. But the thief seems set up that way because of the sheer strength of the cookiecutter builds. Our viability everywhere else is incredibly flimsy.

I’d like to see the cookie cutter builds scaled back a bit and in exchange our overall viability improved.

Amon.5042:

Giants spawning unlimited waves of grubs is a pretty lame game mechanic. It should’ve been limited in the first place.

That fight was awesome… so no.

I love the complaining about this… it’s just so backward.

Pirlipat.2479:

Telling someone to talk a specific language -if he’s not directely talking to you- adds some kind of hostility in my opinion. It’s different when they are in your group and exclude you from the conversation by using a language you can’t understand but the normal chat should be open for everyone, except in WvW ofc.

At no sense did i tell anyone to speak english, but perhaps I wasn’t clear enough.

What I said was, if you speak English and everyone around you speaks English. You are deliberately segregating yourself from communicating with everyone else, just for the vain action of speaking the language of the country you just so happened to be born in.
If you don’t want to speak to everyone but instead what to speak to a select group of people there are in game facilities to allow you to group up and specifically address them.

In short speaking in shout is like saying “I want to address everyone with this”.
So to use the least effective means of doing so when you have the option of English and another language, comes across as unusual and a little pointless to me.

The way I see it online gaming is all about communication.
Why you would want to focus on speaking a language less people can understand in public, I really don’t follow.

It’s not about nationalism or xenophobia, not even remotely. It’s about simple communication. Most of the advanced world teaches English to children in schools now at the same level as their native language.
This isn’t so English can undermine or overthrow their native language. It’s so they have the tools to communicate with as many people as possible in a globally connected world.

I know several languages, at varying levels.
The one thing that does however tick me off is when two players turn a global chat (shout for example) into something that would be better served as party chat or sent in whispers. That counts for any language, not just “non-english”. But its all the more annoying to me when I see it in a foreign language I understand and their just using shout/map chat like it is party chat.

Dixa.6017:

i’m seeing 22k damage

unless you are a warrior or necromancer you aren’t hitting that amount of health unless you stack so much vit you have no way to actually kill your attacker in kind.

Dodge his first attack and back off till haste fades. The only reason pistol whip is hitting that hard is it’s being combined with haste. If you dodge the first attack, the thief’s main trick is gone entirely.

Dodge one attack/gain a 1v1 winning massive advantage, get hit you die. Seems like a fair trade to me.

It’s a burst damage class and if you dodge his first strike and avoid him for several seconds he’ll have wasted his two best utilities and cannot dodge and will be an easy target as long as you keep dodging pistol whip.

This build has the downside that it’s a one trick pony and if you dodge that trick, the player is cannon fodder and will likely run away.

Cerise.9045:

GW2 is that kind of game as long as upgrading to exotic gear results in a 33% damage increase. It’s just another carrot on a stick.

Actually it’s 13%
Source: http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/46603-faq-equipment-attributes-and-you-updated/

Perhaps you and I are playing seperate games?

I am through, two areas of orr and I have my exotics already through crafting. You don’t even need to grind all the materials since most of them are very cheap on the marketplace. And you acquire money simply by playing the game.

Armor from karma is no different, karma is gotten through playing the game. You don’t need to grind that one event in cursed shore meaninglessly for optimal karma. You could see the world and all it’s content while gradually building up your karma. At the end of it you’d have enough for most of the set and two gifts for a legendary.

There are many options to getting Exotic gear and grind is just one of them. Ironically the worst one at that.

Now lets assess the other two claims.

Dungeon armor is prestige armor.
If you want to understand the meaning of this I suggest you go visit the guild wars 1 wiki for the material costs for obsidian armor.
This armor is not meant to be an easy affair, it is meant for people who enjoy playing through dungeons. Not as the reward for playing through them. There is an on going theme through out guild wars 2. Do things you enjoy, because you enjoy them not because you feel you have too.

Legendary weapons are prestige weaponry, I suggest looking up the initial requirements for the tormentor weaponry in guild wars 1. You will find them equally harsh, if not more so for some.
These weapons are for people who want to show off their prestige in playing.

I dare say you are needlessly self inflicting grind on yourself. Play the game and rewards will come over time. If you absolutely have to rush the process then yes, you will have to grind.

Athem.7321:

Dear Arenanet!
snip

What exactly are you grinding for?

http://i.imgur.com/sZtju.jpg

Because sneaking is all about loud ninja armour.

Stratto.3869:

Alice.8694:

Stratto.3869:

Relentless.5678:

I like to think long-term. I have long-term goals for what I want to accomplish in-game. Sort of a nebulous ever-changing miasma of adventure and kitten-kickery. (I just made up a new word!) It is important to look good and feel good. It is real real nice to have 1000 gold (I can only guess). I plan on getting to that point, but I also plan on that taking a long time. If those goals were able to be accomplished in weeks or days I wouldn’t count them in my long-term goals list. I’d be angry in fact because my list just got shorter.
Going on most of the comments from people in the “pro-grinding” camp; I can only take home the fact that some people want their time to be worth more than mine.

What if I told you those goals are now impossible without buying Gems? what will you do?

I’d tell you you’re talking kittenkittens… And suggest you actually try to demonstrate this with data before making absurd assertions that clearly aren’t true.

Alice, I’m realy tired of you trying so hard to discredit me. You obviously haven’t reached lvl 80 or haven’t been 80 long enough to even know about half the stuff I’m talking about. I used to get 26 silver a Run on COF, EVERY 80 and their MOTHER knows how much you got at the end of that dungeon. They just changed that to 2, It takes me twice that to get from Orr to FH. You maybe get downed like twice in COF, it happens, the repair is about 4-6 silver, or if you are downed alot in just a bad run up to 11 Silver, I don’t have a screenie with me so you will have to use your little imagination, OR ask ANYONE WHOS DONE IT. So now, yet again they destroyed our source of revenue. What do we do now… OH HEY LOOK GEMS! Either you are dense, ignorant, or haven’t hit 80…. IF it’s the Latter I suggest you get there before acting like you are on equal ground.

You are making a lot of baseless assertions and extreme claims. You certainly aren’t backing them up with anything other than sensationalism.

I’ve been 80 for quite a while now, long enough to have my first set of gear complete, full explorers and now working on my second set for dungeons.

I earn 2 gold a day on average despite travelling and deaths and that’s just from mostly playing, exploring and having fun.

Acquiring my first set of gear wasn’t remotely the chore you seem to think it was. It just took 400 in the appropriate crafting choices and the items I found exploring the world.

And throwing out ad hominem and appeal to seniority at the end of your rambling in order to undermine my very simple request that you justify your sensationalism is really low and pretty much demonstrates you’ve got nothing.

Stratto.3869:

Relentless.5678:

I like to think long-term. I have long-term goals for what I want to accomplish in-game. Sort of a nebulous ever-changing miasma of adventure and kitten-kickery. (I just made up a new word!) It is important to look good and feel good. It is real real nice to have 1000 gold (I can only guess). I plan on getting to that point, but I also plan on that taking a long time. If those goals were able to be accomplished in weeks or days I wouldn’t count them in my long-term goals list. I’d be angry in fact because my list just got shorter.
Going on most of the comments from people in the “pro-grinding” camp; I can only take home the fact that some people want their time to be worth more than mine.

What if I told you those goals are now impossible without buying Gems? what will you do?

I’d tell you you’re talking kittenkittens… And suggest you actually try to demonstrate this with data before making absurd assertions that clearly aren’t true.

Raf.1078:

Its an unfortunate occurrence in all forums in all games where the naysayers dominate the conversation, while those people that like the game rarely post or even bother with forums.

Which gives the illusion that “everyone” is horribly dissatisfied with the game. When its really a pretty small percentile.

That’s mostly because we are playing and enjoying the game. ^^

Or I would be if Orr was moving.

Stratto.3869:

Alice.8694:

Personally I’d like the Op to show me the part where they claimed vanity prestige gear wouldn’t be a grind.

They definitely claimed high end stats would be easy to achieve. But they also claimed that prestige items would be very hard to obtain.

Alot of this comes across as mindless rabble rousing.

Faction gear was only obtainable at lvl 80, and it’s level of Rarity is “Rare” (yellow) not even the stats I really wanted either. And now high end stats are much harder to achieve, prestige items are the dungeon reward sets, NOT the faction items. Looks like you are the only on that is mindless.

Nothing you said has anything to do with what I asked you to prove.
Which you cannot, because they didn’t ever claim vanity/prestige wouldn’t be hard to achieve. (or in your words, a grind.)
Instead you babble on about the price of another prestige set. Prestige just means hard to obtain and worth showing off and surprisingly a large sum of money comes under that category. It doesn’t get changed just because it’s something you think should be something that is easier to obtain.

Over sensationalism because you’re butthurt about having the repetitive CoF abuse to get easy prestige armor fixed. Yes, fixed… Not nerfed because it wasn’t intended for you to do it in the first place.

The amusing thing is, because you all abused that bug… CoF armor is now the least desirable. Because it is now the most common, and who wants to look like a bunch of scrubs abusing an exploit?

Personally I’d like the Op to show me the part where they claimed vanity prestige gear wouldn’t be a grind.

They definitely claimed high end stats would be easy to achieve. But they also claimed that prestige items would be very hard to obtain.

Alot of this comes across as mindless rabble rousing.

As it stands at the moment, world bosses are far too easy.
And downed state against them is too over powered, simply because when you have 30 people fighting a boss, 2 of them can spare the time to pick you up and boss dps barely drops. Having to go down so many times before you are killed is too far too much on world bosses.

My suggestion is simple however:
Make it so each of a bosses moves has a unique on death debuff. If this debuff stacks 3 times you die. The debuff would persist until it dies or resets.

This will encourage players who die repeatedly to the same move to find a way to not get downed by it. But give players who are all out dying to everything some leeway.

A great example of this is the megadestroyer. It’s fireballs are powerful but i’ve seen casters not even bother dodging because hey… they’ll get picked up.

The world bosses need better moves, they need stronger more menacing moves. They need the ability to win. Epic fights aren’t epic if they aren’t challenging.

Psilocin.1435:

muthax.4720:

Psilocin.1435:

Alice.8694:

How about rats in a box?

WoW’s mechanics are so brutally dependant on skinner’s box. That it is borderline disturbing.

GW2’s PvP is so poorly implemented that there is no element of true player skill or tactics involved.

See, a horrible generalization that is false. Just because you believe something doesn’t make it true.

That’s it for me though. If you want to reply with another worthless post without any structural or logical arguement to back it up, it’s simply pointless for anyone to continue this discussion. And here people are complaining about the “WoW-fanboys’” idiotic generalizations that aren’t even based on reality. Oh, the irony. I guess people are right. There’s no middle-ground on official forums. You either get stupid fanboys who make no attempt to keep a civilized discussion going, or you get idiotic haters who believe that anything that doesn’t cater to them is wrong.

I don’t understand why you get so angry if people complain about wowkiddies: that term indicates wow players from wrath on that tend to want everything and NOW! and that will go to new games and start complaining that the game isn’t like wow and trying to force the devs to turn it into a wowclone (and then generally leave).

No one is saying nothing about wow players PER SE. By the way, I agree 100% on the last part of your post but that same sentence seems to apply more to the so called ’wowkiddies"

I said I would leave, but I actually see the benefit of clarifying here. What Alice did, and several others do, is to refer to the entire game WoW, as something mind-boggling boring, tedious, addicting and so on. It’s the fact that they talk as if the entire game is something bad, and GW2 is everything right, when it’s obvious that everyone has their own taste. I don’t even believe the term “wowkiddie” or “wowfanboy” has been used in this thread. What has happened on the other hand, is that they keep talking about the PVE and PVP of WoW as if it’s something horrible and the source of everything that is wrong with new games nowadays. When it is, in fact, just THEIR PERSONAL OPINION.

If they want to be taken seriously, which I really hope they want to, as I’d love to keep discussing the pros and cons of WoW, GW2 and everything between heaven and earth, they need to stop doing that. People have different preferences. Some prefer the PVE in WoW, some the PVE in GW2. Some prefer the PVP in WoW, some the PVP in GW2. And that’s reality. GW2 isn’t worse or better. Neither is WoW. What we can talk about is what specific aspects we would prefer to see in GW2, because that is what is relevant. No one cares if they believe that WoW is a horrible game. Absolutely NO ONE. What we do care about is what they would like to see changed in GW2, or what they would like to see unchanged. What they think GW2 succeeds in doing, and what it could need improving on. That is fun to talk about. Both the praising and the hating of WoW has just become old, and it has no place on this forum unless it is to analyze GW2’s current state.

This thread has potential, and I’ll keep my eye on it. I just want people to get out of this evil circle that they seem so caught into, and start actually contributing instead of reducing every single thread into either mindless bashing of either WoW or GW2.

Please stop putting words in my mouth or alluring to what I mean based on what I didn’t say. I’m making a simple point regarding mechanics that were in guild wars 1. That were very effective game mechanics within 1.

As for WoW… WoW is built on skinner’s box design principles. Something the devs are not shy about admitting over at gamesutra. It makes for effective addicting design philosophies. So it is not unfair to broadbrush WoW with it being designed around something it clearly is designed around.

Psilocin.1435:

Tusuri.3178:

What I blame is a kind of playing mindset, which was arguably introduced in the WoW era, that consists basically in the application of the FPS/Arcade gaming methodology to the MMORPG field. In this sense, everything related to immersion, lore, RP, complex player interaction, intelectual challenge and, in general, anything related to the use of imagination is disregarded. The only thing that actually matters, as in any good arcade, is to achieve maximum XP in minimum time.

MMORPGs were not designed with that philosophy in mind. The very acronym gives you a hint of what is this about: Massive Multiplayer Online -Role Playing- Game.

I’ve been in the MMORPG scene for a long time and I can say that there was a before-and-after WoW. The appealing point of WoW was that, no matter you were mentally handicapped or a chimp, you could be be considered a good player as long as you could smash the rotations and memorize the scripted fights. It supposed a massive dumbing-down and linearization from previous MMORPGs. This is, on the other hand, a big reason for its success as the MMORPG genre was opened to the “lower-common-denominator” type of players. With WoW came as well the glorification of macros and add-ons that are not less than permitted cheating.

The consecuence is that we have a pool of players that cannot conceive another way of playing. Even worst, many of them believe they are skilled players which, of course, they are not.

Blizzard played its cards really well, focusing on game addiction (the eternal treadmill for better gear) as the main motivation for playing.

Besides the addiction argument, I freak out at these people as I don’t understand why they play MMORPGs when they could be playing Pac-Man and get the same feelings.

Anyway, this is my opinion and, after all, this is a free world. My sincerest suggestion is that:

- If you want a linear, gear based progression game, you can find a lot of WoW clones in the market. There are a lot of Diablo clones as well that focus on the gear grind and stats based progression.

- For the rest of us (and I assure you we are legion), that are more interested in the immersion and open-world aspects, we have a new home here.

You make some good points, but I just can’t take you seriously when you reduce millions of fellow gamers who happen to enjoy different aspects of the MMORPG genre to mindless zombies. I could do the exact same thing about GW2 players, but it would add nothing to the discussion.

How about rats in a box?

WoW’s mechanics are so brutally dependant on skinner’s box. That it is borderline disturbing.

Aedus.5973:

So what you’re saying that every bit of flaws in GW2 is WOW’s fault, OP? That is bull. I’m pretty sure flaws in a game are the developers’ fault.
Dynamic Events are the crowning features of GW2. They boasted about how every play-through the same zone will be different, but I’ve repeated certain events (in the same play session) like 7 to 10 times before leaving the zone. They boasted about branching events, but the events only progress down a single path.
I remember in an interview, they said there would be events in explorer mode dungeons that actually changes the experience. I completed 2 dungeons thoroughly, but I don’t see any events that changes the dungeon experience. What I see, though, is dungeons that are rushed, especially honor of the waves: the bugs in there are hilarious (jellyfishes stuck on land, mobs going through walls)

No… That is not what I said… I apologies if you misunderstood me. I thought I was fairly clear in what I said. But i’ll try reiterate for you…
There is a vast difference between discovering bugged content, a legitimate concern for any game. And complaining that the games main features are not going to be successful because they aren’t like WoW.

The explorer mode for each dungeon does indeed change the experience of the dungeon. They have entirely different bosses, different mechanics and different stories.

I do not recall them mentioning branching dynamic events. However they did mention branching story lines and for the most part they do actually branch outward. Though the branches are fleeting and not as permanent as we might have hoped. And reconvene together as you reach the final act.

Most of the issues with the lack of events is due to them being balanced weakly. The events act like a pendulum swaying from side to side. However presently most events in zones outside of Orr are too easy. And therefore the pendulum never swings due to players always dominating the enemy force. This is a balancing issue, these things happen and they have said they are working on them in other threads.

Bloody.8769:

sigh really, you guys want to argue numbers? ok GW1 , total copies sold according to ANet. 6 odd million. Is that your Legion, or maybe you want to go with say LOTR online ?

WoW. Highest Sub total 12 million. That is Subs , Paying Subs. Not even the sales and not even counting the Asia market. Those millions that WoW has lost , well it is a case of they have lost more than Anet has ever sold. So go ahead and defend that .

None of these figures pertain to what the previous poster was talking about… Specific game mechanics and the immersion of MMORPGS. You’ll find that the Daedalus project, easy to search for in google… Top hit. Found that the number of people who wanted immersion in WoW vastly outnumbered those who wanted the game solely for raiding.

Bloody.8769:

sorry but the real world numbers suggest that your legion is actually a minority.

I completely assure you, my majority is greater than your majority based on the accurate data I haven’t and probably can’t present you. Therefore your opinion matters less than mine.

See I can do this too.