Guild Wars 2

Ohoni.6057:

*I think that the trait lines should be balanced in such a way that one combination of traits is about maximizing your own DPS potential, to make the Tempest a worthwhile solo/selfish build, while another line is about maximizing that support role, making your support to others more effective and making your more survivable in that role.

Yeah this is very important. Currently the tempest spec is useless in PvE as the warhorn and the trait line have no damage options. The offensive support is also weaker than the alternatives (e.g. phalanx war), so there’s no reason to take it as an offensive support either.

Xillllix.3485:

It doesn’t even work for melee support. You’ll just get pulverized when zerg clashes if you don’t mist form out.

It will work if they improve the traits.

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Both D/D and D/F are already our skirmish specs and they do their jobs WAY better than the current tempest ever could.

They do their job better because they have a different job. D/D and D/F are small scale skirmishing / 1v1 sets, warhorn is a melee support weapon, more similar to staff than to focus or offhand dagger.

scerevisiae.1972:

Staff is not a close range weapon unless you’re playing it badly. Staff + Tempest makes no sense at all.

How is fighting on a point in spvp not close range? The spvp meta cele staff build (the only meta staff build) is used for holding/supporting points. And in dungeons/fractals staff is 95% a close range weapon (and 99%-100% in good groups).

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Arenanet said: “hey if you want access to this beta you’ll have to pay us through preordering the game. There is no other way to access this beta.”

That’s the VERY DEFINITION OF A PAID BETA.

Yeah, you’d don’t get to make up your own definition of things.

Yes, this is exactly the “if I buy the expansion I’m buying the base game twice!” argument all over again.

Malchior.5732:

Because it’s not used as a 180 range weapon in spvp? It’s used near enemies, but not at melee range necessarily. Then there’s the fact that you need to actually cast Fire Overload…

Well the overload effects extend to 360 range, no? If you’re fighting on a point, this will cover a lot of it.

Xillllix.3485:

Why would a staff elementalist choose to camp in an attunement and use a close-range overload? Makes absolutely no sense.

Well given that both in spvp and in pve (dungeons at least, and sometimes in the open world) staff is used as a close range weapon.. why not?

The Great Al.2546:

What can tempest do that D/D can’t?

Tempest does better party support.

Let’s say we take the following trait lines: Water/Arcana/Tempest. Water and Arcana already have all the party support that d/d provides via the trait lines. Offhand dagger provides nothing that warhorn doesn’t provide in terms of party support (fire field, blast finisher, 2 CCs), but warhorn has a lot more (2 boon sharing skills, blind field, party-wide swiftness, water field). Depending on what they do with the overloads, it will have even more.

Coldtart.4785:

Money constantly depreciates in value producing the inflation we’re all familiar with.

The annual inflation rate for the last year in the US is 0.2% (link). So each month your money is worth 0.017% less, i.e. you lose 0.017 cents per 100 cents. I’m sure that’s somehow relevant.

Edit: If the expansion launches in 1 year, people will be buying the expansion for only $49.90, because that’s how much the current $50 will be valued at this rate.

morrolan.9608:

Wat? You barely see any staff eles in sPvP and when you do they are mostly ineffective.

Even some top teams have a staff ele in the weekly tournaments occasionally, so they’re good, just not super popular. There’s a meta build for spvp: http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Elementalist_-_Celestial_Staff

The Great Al.2546:

I agree with you, which is why melee group support just inherently didn’t make sense

It inherently doesn’t make sense? What? The best support build currently is not even d/d, it’s the staff build, the tempest needs to compete with that. Since staff is a ranged weapon, a melee support spec would be nice. They just need to improve the warhorn and the overloads.

SkiTz.4590:

Also, 1111 IS NOT ROTATION.

Even d/d ele will spend some time 111-ing (in air usually) as part of its rotation.

Flames of War is what the Fire Overload should’ve been. Flames of War is the torch #5 of the new warrior spec. Important aspects:

- Is a fire field
- Actually deals good damage (very important for pve viability of overloads)
- Not channeled (?)

And while we’re at it, please make the tempest warhorn #5 (the moving water field) move with the tempest. I hope this one is not “reserved” for ranger >.>

Valento.9852:

This means 24% of voters are driven by hatred. uh…

No no, you’ve got it wrong, that’s not hatred, that’s passion for the game!

!!

The Great Al.2546:

Any chance that we get a look at additional changes today?

I’d guess no, because they’re looking at more changes than what the Dragonhunter got today, and we already know how posting just a few tweaks on this forum turns out.

Can the poll be tweaked further? To add a number for example before each statement.

Also regarding this: " Overloads mechanics aren’t making meaningful impact to elementalists or too risky (channeling mechanics) to become synergic, i.e., the whole concept is somewhat flawed. (skip 9 and 10) " – the way this is worded doesn’t make sense, because overloads could be made more impactful (via number tweaking) and less risky (via traits) without rendering the concept flawed. Maybe change it to something like “I don’t like the overload concept (for whatever reason)” or something similar?

EDIT: The poll also needs additional statements like “Tempest should’ve been a ranged spec instead of melee/pbaoe”, which we’ve seen some people complain about.

You can also provide feedback without participating in the beta, just read the skill/trait descriptions and watch the videos. In fact this is what most people do, even if they have made a tempest and played with it for a bit.

Argol Vazin.3061:

They are charging people for their feedback.

These ideas are getting into crazy territory.

scerevisiae.1972:

and doesn’t synergise at all with either of the 2 existing ranged weapons, which is bad bad bad.

The problem with scepter is that nothing synergises with it (except a single trait – Fresh Air, and a single utility skill – Lightning Hammer). Scepter needs to be improved separately.

Staff is used as a close-combat weapon often in spvp/conquest, so it might work with the tempest spec eventually. Mid-range tempest staff might even become a thing in wvw.

rotten.9753:

no matter how much anet would buff it, necro won’t be taken for pve meta groups.

Double the damage of the dagger auto and triple the damage of wells, and every pve meta group will be taking a necro. Maybe even 2 or 3.

Edit: Remember a few weeks ago how 5 guardian record dungeon runs became a thing? A single numbers bug did that.

PlatinumMember.5274:

OP forgot that beta is about giving feedback and expecting changes. The fact that he is attempting to spin this to mean something different is amazing.

While you can expect changes to be made eventually, you are not entitled to a full list of changes on/by any specific date of your choosing. The devs have already said there will be more changes. This settles the question.

We’ve already seen that some condi specs can do more DPS than the power based ones (see engi), so I wouldn’t mind if a condi/sinister berserker became one of the pve meta builds.

The Reaper, Chronomancer and Dragonhunter were developed and presented months ago, it makes sense they are the first ones to get major fixes. And because as soon as their changes were announced, people on the ele forums started crying “but what about us???!”, the devs probably felt they needed produce something sooner rather than later (which they didn’t really have to, but still did). I guess Anet should’ve just said “changes will be announced at a later point”, but that would’ve also produced an outrage.

It will be pretty funny if tempest suddenly becomes viable after they nerf d/d ele.

Actually if you make the trait that gives aura on overload give the aura at the start of the channel, it would be a nice buff. And since it puts the attunement on a long cooldown, it won’t be worth to pop the overload just for the aura and then cancel it. I can’t see any ele putting any attunement on a 15s cooldown for an aura.

Maybe even make the aura on overload baseline. Then at least one spec (aurashare) might want to use them.

Valentinus.3412:

In a competitive environment, against experienced opponents, a haymaker is suicide. It is a very rare occasion when an experienced fighter will ever even consider throwing the haymaker.

Sort of how rarely anyone uses Churning Earth any more.

Stark.1350:

A lot of my guild mates tried Tempest and said they really enjoyed it. Maybe it’s a learn to play issue.

I enjoyed it too, but that doesn’t mean it’s competitive.

Lightning Orb is warhorn #5 in air.

Usually #5 skills have a strong effect on a long cooldown. How and when is Lightning orb supposed to be used? It just feels like a weak damage skill, am I missing something?

One way to make the shouts more viable is to make them apply an aura by default. Currently all eles in wvw/pvp run cantrips (even bunkier specs). To make shouts compete with them will require major buffs.

FrownyClown.8402:

Rather than burn duration you should increase the might duration on fire overload to 15s.

Yeah, this.

A general problem with the overloads is that the cast time is so long, and on top of that it shuts you out from the attunement for so long, that it’s just better to keep swapping attunements instead, you just gain more from the swapping than from overloading the each attunement every 20-25+ sec.

Aerial Melodies.4938:

9. NPCs – especially at keeps – were an absolute pain to take care of. It reminded me a lot of the early EOTM where you couldn’t effectively capture the keeps without a zerg. We all know what that led EOTM to become! I think these should be scaled so if you’re a group of 5 trying to take it, the NPC isn’t as strong. Essentially do what other bosses in PvE do – if you’re 5 manning it, it’s weaker; if you’re 80 man blobbing it, it’s stronger.

This.

sendaf.8375:

Too much running, the map should have been made smaller then Alpine not larger.

If the map is smaller then a single blob can run quickly to defend any objective, so it’ll be blob vs blob all day long.

Also I’m not even certain the map has much more travel time than the Alpine borderlands, people just haven’t figured out the fastest ways to get from each objective to every other objective. Also the keeps and towers are bigger and take up more map space, so from outer gate to outer gate the travel time may be similar to the current borderlands.

You can get a 5 min buff from a shrine when you capture it, no?

Rampage.7145:

NOBODY likes this new map

Speak for yourself.

Been downloading at 1KB/s for the past 3 hours. Restarted several times.

phys.7689:

the truth is, they are right in that the fans are willing to pay more for less.

How are veterans paying more when they’ve been playing the game for so long? The extra they paid is for the extra they played! When the game gets discounted, does everyone suddenly complain they paid more for the same thing? If it was okay for new players to get the game for $10 when most people paid $40, why is it now suddenly objectionable that new players now get the base game for $0?

Omocha.4931:

’cause they are paying for the base game twice

If you really think this, please answer my question here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Stop-Calling-HoT-an-expansion/page/2#post5172920

rchu.8945:

But screwing the veteran players with their current pricing plan for pre-purchase is beyond silly, what happen to the common business practice of rewarding your loyal customers?

How are they screwing you personally? You either believe the expansion content is worth the price, and buy it, or you don’t, and don’t buy it.

phys.7689:

its a question of do you want to buy the new standalone, as well as, is the amount of new content worth the price of the standalone game.

The new standalone is priced at what Anet think their new “expansion” (or whatever you want to call it) content (+maybe future living world content) is worth. Whether you agree to this is up to you to decide.

phys.7689:

because people directly asked them before purchasing would they have to buy the base game before they buy the expansion, and they said yes.

they then made that answer a part of their FAQ posted publicly online, as an answer to that question for all who were wondering if it was worth their time/money to buy now.

This is the only thing newer players can reasonably be upset about. Not veterans, not conspiracy theorists who think they’re paying for the base game twice.

phys.7689:

the base games value goes down because the people who want it goes down.

No no, Anet knew their game was worth $30, so they generated hype and made people pay for it twice, don’t you see?? Later when there was not so much demand, they dropped the price!! Outrageous! puts tin foil hat on

phys.7689:

means that it not an expansion.
Marketing speak is not real speak.

What you call it is not important, you don’t pay for the word. You pay for the content they’ve announced. If you feel it’s worth it – buy it, otherwise don’t, or wait for more info.

Omocha.4931:

- a player buys the game 35 days ago (let’s not get into the very recent recording of ANet’s refusing to do what they promised to do, which is sort out the accounts of people purchasing the game less than 30 days ago). Regardless if it was because of HoT or not, now (s)he’ll have to buy it again, because there can be only one GW2 version.

If they bought the game 35 days ago, they’re not veterans. And the situation is not too different from buying the game for $40 right before Anet does a $10 sale. Yes, it sucks, but why is it more objectionable then the sales?

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

So Anet has said so…. that’s your argument? Well to many consumers it looks quite differently. But hey, no harm, no foul. If the core game is included for free, then give us existing players a free copy of the game.

Okay let me ask you this. Let’s say you bought the original GW2 for $60. Some time later they discounted the game to $40/$20/$10.

I’ve got 2 theories about the discount, let me know which one is more likely:

1). The game was really worth $30, but they made people who paid $60 pay for other people’s games.

2) The game was worth $60, but they sell it at a lower price later to bring in more people, because it makes business sense.

Are you outraged already?

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

You don’t see anything shady about selling an expansion + the base game for free, but the expansion happens to have the same price as a full game?

You don’t see how that would make existing players feel like they are paying for the core game twice, but getting just the expansion? At least the new players are getting both, so for them the $50 bucks are justified. But for existing players? Where did our free game go? If we’re not getting that, then the price should be lowered for us.

Some players may feel they are paying for the base game a second time, but that’s simply not true, as Anet have confirmed. Maybe you think they’re lying. This makes no sense. What makes sense is giving the base game for free to new players, which is exactly what they’ve done.

Doesn’t WoW’s latest expansion also cost $50? Yes, you can argue the price is too high. It’s up to you to decide whether it’s worth it. Just keep in mind you’re also paying for all the free future living world/feature pack content you’ll be getting over the next years.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Alphard.6529:

Veteran players asking to get a separate base game key because they think the product somehow entitles them to that are silly. Giving out millions of base GW2 accounts to people who upgrade their current account would also be pretty silly.

They claim the full game is free. So why shouldn’t they give existing players an extra copy of the game, if it is included for free with the expansion? Its free aint it? So what’s the problem?

See, and this is exactly what makes existing players feel that something is shady. Especially since the expansion happens to be the price of a full game. This has nothing to do with entitlement.

The problem is that Anet can’t just give current players a second base account. It would be bad for many reason. On the other hand, new players getting the base game for free when they buy HoT is very healthy for the game in general and indirectly for veterans too. They do not want people buying vanilla GW2 going forward, they want only HoT to exist as a product. This is also very good for the game for many reasons, especially because future living world updates will require HoT. And by buying HoT, you’re also buying at least 1-2 years worth of future living world/story updates.

So they created this “smart” product that does different things depending on who buys it, because of the above considerations. I personally think it’s a win for both veterans and new players. I don’t see anything shady, each piece of the product benefits multiple groups in different (sometimes indirect) ways.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Not trying to understand people’s outrage over this issue, and mocking them, does not aid the discussion in any constructive way, and makes you look a bit silly.

Veteran players asking to get a separate base game key because they think the product somehow entitles them to that are silly. Giving out millions of base GW2 accounts to people who upgrade their current account would also be pretty silly.

SleepingDragon.1596:

I’m “Entitled” to what new players get. 2 games for the price of 1.

You are free to create a new base account with HoT in it and use your current account as storage.

ekarat.1085:

Sales are normal. New customer deals are normal. Giving the base game away with the expansion to new players is just good sense.

What about bundles on steam? Or steam sales? Or any other kind of sale? How about when older games get cheaper? Is that unfair to people who bought it earlier?

This really is perfectly normal and reasonable and commonplace.

+1

skowcia.8257:

Axelwarrior.9084:

dbgfeller.8120:

Shifu.4321:

dbgfeller.8120:

I don’t care if it’s cheap or expensive, the point is that I don’t want to pay for something I already own.

Which is?

Which is the core game.

You’re not paying for the core game, it’s included for free. As a bonus for those who don’t have it.

And where is my bonus for being a vet player?

You got both living story seasons for free, in addition to many skins and items that are no longer accessible to new players.

Sold Out.7625:

Core game is a free bonus to a set Heart of Thorns price to incentivize new players to get the game and not have them pay double.

Your post is pointless.

Nobody misses you. Go away.

+1

When out of combat (running from place to place) stay out of fire. When you engage a mob or a group of mobs, spam a bunch of CC-s (e.g. static, frozen ground), then switch to fire and spam 1-2-3-5 until mobs are dead. In longer fights try to stay in fire for as long as possible, because the other attunements have much worse dps.