Guild Wars 2

@Shiren: Your wrong, because the difference here is: I don’t need this gear to play the game and do everything there ins the game: It’s pure cosmetics. Sure, they have been kind and added something that people enjoying “grind” can get. But it ain’t needed for anything but the looks, if your into that, there is your motivation. Hence it’s not Skinner’s Box, there is no punishment for not getting that gear.

@DirtyDeeeds: Now your just being silly, I don’t like sushi, I really think fish should be cooked, so with that silly of ideas of yours, I should be able to go into a sushi only restaurant “and demand something else” because I don’t like sushi? What you fail to realize is Anet ain’t aiming for the usual MMO players most games go for. They aim for “my” group of players. You can never make everyone happy, and this time you guys ain’t the winners.

Death Aggro.9602:

There absolutely should be random skinned drops or something. I guess most ppl just have to much content left. Im of firm belief if you havnt seen all the content. Dont post about how those who have finished it are being vocal.
b/c there isnt that much after 100%

But Death Aggro… There is sill WvsW, there is sPvP, there is alts, there is dungeons you can keep do, there is new stuff to craft, and there is random events and puzzles you can show your friends or do with them. If all that ain’t enough for you, then be happy for the fun you had with your 300+ hours played you paid 50£ for? Why do you think the dungeon will be more fun to play again, just because you will get a reward? i’s still the same dungeon.

Rizzy.8293:

Lets put it this way, the difference between Elite 15k Armour and 1.5k armour in guildwars is visual aesthetics.

Now if Rares and Exotics in guildwars2 followed that principal, no problem.
I wouldnt have to save up 18gold just to get the base line standard of my level to become an effective member in my team BUT this isn’t the case, the Exotics boost your stats by quite a bit, it means you’ll be on par with all the other people in exotics and slightly better than those in rares.

Legendaries on the other hand, follow the same rule as 15k elite armour 1.5k armour in guildwars and are for visual reasons, as a ranger my Legendary bow looks like a unicorn…. I dont need that.

First off, great post Tiresias.6473

Second, if that is true what you say Rizzy (which I haven’t felt the case for me, I only bother getting 3 exotics and I haven’t felt like an “Hindrance”) BUT if the difference about rares and exotic is that big, then the development need to adjust the numbers! and then that should be solved!

Death Aggro.9602:

Where are OP getting this bigger numbers kittens. I have not read a single thread asking for statted gear. What i do see is ppl wanting a reward for their time. Ive come to realize this game is to be played for a bit then shelved till new content comes out. B/c in less than 300 hrs you can have everything you want in this game. Except rewarding loot you didnt grind a dungeon for. 100% map, everything. As i have. with the exception of a legendary. Only casuals are putting these threads up. Who are you to tell me what i paid for isnt for me.

This is what’s wrong: “wanting a reward for their time”. Stop using your time on something that ain’t fun. Games are made to have FUN. There is no one, that have to reward you for spending you free time on a GAME for FUN. If you don’t have fun playing a game, then the game ain’t for you, and you should move a long. And Who am I to tell you the game ain’t for you? I’m no one, and that’s not the message I’m sending. But clearly, if you ain’t amused by the game your playing, and want to change the core functions of the game and one of the huge selling points for many other players, your might very well have brought something you won’t be happy with

Bloody.8769:

oh regarding the Skinner box, alot of folk have been quoting it without really giving it enough thought. Many better read and better educated behavioural scientists have already discounted the Skinner box idea to be applied to gaming. A better reasoning is that humans are by nature living in a Skinner Box. Yes you all criticising all the WoW players while living the dream is quite the irony. Look around you, you are CONDITIONED to act in a certain way by society, by your upbringing, your friends, you work, your social circles , the media, the games you play, the work you do, the tv you watch etc. Human conditioning exists within you,as you are constantly trying to feel better, stronger, richer, less hungry etc. No, the hilarity of all those quoting the Skinner box without realizing they live in one shows you how blissful ignorance is.

First of, as you say yourself: This game ain’t for you. It won’t give you your shines, and there ain’t anything to do about it. The game just ain’t designed for that sort of reward, lucky for you, plenty of other games do it, pick one of those.

second, I do know about Skinner’s Box exist all around us, see such a simple thing as grades in school, or laws for that matter. They all use a Reward/Punishment model that Skinner’s Box is build around. What you fail to see is: That ain’t fun. It’s designed to manage how we behave and what we do.

When I open up a game, I want it to entertain me, to give me fun, let me experience something. Let it be a story or great things with my friends. All most every game will have a little “Reward and Punisment in them”, it’s just a matter about the amount. Let’s take it up now: WoW, the biggest MMORPG. They overuse Skinner’s Box to the amount of addiction. They program it’s players to do a daily dungeon, to get better gear with higher numbers, so they can do harder dungeons, which you need higher numbers for, and that is how it goes. Your ain’t having fun, your addicted to the reward. Doing your Daily heroic won’t amuse you, it’s only the desire for the shine that keeps you going.

If that is what make’s you happy, then sure, go nuts in these kinds of games. But players like me, try to find games where the amount of “Reward and punishment” ain’t found in the same sick amounts. I don’t want to be forced into doing stuff I don’t want to, so I actually can do what I want to do.

Deith.7596:

We had fun and we have no reason to go back there again, “same joke isn’t funy twice”.

But then go with another group of friends, go to another dungeon, or another route, do something else. it’s the great thing, you don’t need to do it again if you don’t want to? I don’t know about you, but the MMORPG’s I have played where I had to go to the dungeons again and again to get loot, that was even less fun, even with all the rewards. It wasn’t fun because I felt forced to do it

Aven.7295:

i want to love the game… really do. put enough investment in the first game that i was really hopeing this game would live up to what they said. Right now my biggest problem is your not allowed to farm. and everything in the game is pretty much just another gold sink.

you know why people loved gw1 with less content? Because Anet didnt tell them how to play.

Also the thousands of personal stories thing is BS no mater where you start it ends the same. its mass effect all over again.

What ain’t you allowed to farm again? The only thing they have stopped you in farming is the same dungeon twice in a row?

@Deith… I fail to see your problem then? So you went to a dungeon, you and your team fought together and got thekittenbosskittenin a fun boss battle! What more do you need? you had fun? ain’t that the entire point with the game? that you have fun? I just don’t get the idea of “well, nothing good dropped, this sucks”. Yes I do agree they should add a bigger money reward to dungeons. But I can’t see why we need more? Sure I wouldn’t mind a random chance for a cosmetic armor piece if that’s what would sail the boat for many. Or give the boss encounter different ways to be beaten, and then a title to brag about it with!

Elysian Rose.5283:

Did you play GW1? Do you know how insignificant items are compared to GW1? Don’t even mention them :P

I never got to play GW I hehe, I gotta admit that!

Deith.7596:

I never said I want epic gear as a reward. Here is your problem, you assume too much, you assume I’m a Wow player because you think I want gear. But in Witcher 2 or Dragon Age they don’t give me epic gear and I still feel rewarded for my efford. You got it now or you’ll still talk about gear?

See, I never said anything about wow, I just talked about gear with bigger numbers, and you come to that conclusion yourself. You know what the main reward for many players, playing games is? It’s fun, you play these games because you enjoy they time you spent on the games! If you need some sort of reward for doing that, again, there is plenty of games out there giving you a reward. This game ain’t fun for you? then go to another. (and both game you bring are single players RPG’s, and Dragon age is loot focused a lot)

Gehenna.3625:

The argument that “this is not the game for you” can be true for some. In other cases the argument can be “improvement from criticism”.
(Bla bla bla a good post, just no need to quote that much)
.

Tha’ts where GW II shine Gehenna… You don’t need to gear up! It won’t matter. It ain’t about you gear, it’s about your skills and the teamwork you have with the group you go to the explore dungeon! Yes, you will get a little higher stats with full exotic, but it haven’t stopped me from doing anything yet!

Deith.7596:

Amadeus.5687:

@Deith, I’m sorry, but that’s not what I’m trying to say, nor the point I want to make: My point is, we ain’t all agreeing about what’s a good game! sure, if you get your fun with games that use Skinner’s Box to give you “fun”, then that’s fine with me. But, this game ain’t one of these, and we are players that want these kind of game aswell, so please let us have it!

What EXACTLY you lose if the “non-rewarded” players will get their rewards?

If you guys get your “reward” you gear with your numbers on, I loose the ability to “do what I want”, without “farming for the numbers, to do what I want”. That is what I loose, they remove the fun, and replace with with reward…

@Deith, I’m sorry, but that’s not what I’m trying to say, nor the point I want to make: My point is, we ain’t all agreeing about what’s a good game! sure, if you get your fun with games that use Skinner’s Box to give you “fun”, then that’s fine with me. But, this game ain’t one of these, and we are players that want these kind of game aswell, so please let us have it!

Greetings everyone!

Many would start the topic with a long introduction about how many games they have played, how many hours they played this ect ect. But I won’t, cause it won’t change anything about what I’m going to say.

I been been reading the forums since they opened them! (woho). Hence, I haven’t been able to not notice, the huge amount of complains being raised on the forums. I won’t say all off them ain’t without reason, nor will I say the game is without flaws either(Like WvsW wait times, money rewards, and bugs). But the point I would like to raise, is against this “Challenge vs Reward”, “The game being to hard” and the “there is no endgame and it fells like a grind”.

See my title of the topic, it’s a message for you: This simply may not be the game for you? Sure, I’m sorry that you have used money and time on a game that didn’t deliver what you wanted. Why do I say this? It’s simple, I, and quite the amount of players, have found what we seek for in this MMORPG. It’s a game where we don’t have to do anything at all, to do everything there is in the game.

I know many of you want “New gear with large numbers on”, so you can use this “new gear with with large numbers on, to get gear with EVEN larger numbers on”. You want a carrot in front of you, telling you to “go do that, then this is yours!”. And I’m glad to tell you this: There is plenty of MMORPG’s out there, doing just that! yay! Then you can level to max level, be forced to do dungeons after dungeon, or PvP for insane amount’s of time, to get the “gear with the best numbers”, and start the entire chain again (See the theory called Skinner’s Box to learn about why this system works)

But guys? I’m sorry, this ain’t one of this game! If you rush in, level as fast as you can to 80, and start grinding everything you can, thinking it’s time to get “the gear with the best numbers” so you can beat the other peoples “numbers”, then your about to have a really bad time? This game won’t give you any motivation, but the motivation of the game being fun to play.

What this game is about, is do everything from the start, without the need to grind “The gear with the right numbers”. I can go do sPvP at level 2, and go right into a tournament. I will play on equal ground at level 2, without farming gear for a month to be competitive. I can go gather without competing with every single other players about “who get’s there first!!”. Do I want a hard task? Do I want to challenge me and my m8’s? Then we go can do an dungeon on explore mode. Do we want it easier? then we do it story mode? There is no stress, no need to log in everyday you can do your “Daily Trip to random dungeon, so you can get your reward”. There is only: “Hey? I feel like doing this! That’s why I do it”

You will only enjoy your time playing GW II, if you play it cause it’s fun, and not because you expects it to reward you a coffin filled with gold and huge numbers ,for everything you do. They have made good looking armor and legendary items, that will take a great time and dedication to ever get, but they are, and hopefully never will, be something you NEED, to do everything in this game!
And that is why I, and many of my IRL friends enjoy this game, and feel we all have and MMORPG we can play together. Because, we can play it for fun and because we fell like playing it, and not because we have to get the “Biggest Numbers”

Thanks for reading and please everyone with these complains: Move to one of the games delivering you “The Carrot on a stick” mode aka Skinner’s Box model, and let the rest of us have our little GW II in peace? we promise we won’t bother you!

CptCosmic.3156:

I have yet to be hit by grenades in pvp. they are just too easy to avoid even without dodging and retaliation stacking will kill you if someone decides to “eat” your grenades. you will hurt yourself for 1,2k damage per player you hit if the guy using retaliation AOE combos has decent amount of power.

I have to agree, that AoE retaliation hurts you, and it hurts you bad. But there is no setup without a weakness. That said, you haven’t faced a decent grenadier yet then, that know’s about where to stand, and how to aim.
I have had no troubles running my setup in WvsW (Inless AoE realiation get’s up where I aim) nor sPvP, and even in 1vs1 situations, hitting people. In 1vs1, where you enemy focus on you, it is indeed harder to hit them at long range, but in a 1vs1, you can hit them point blank when they close in you, try dodge that. Group battle’s in sPvP with a decent group makes them just that more easy to aim and hit with.

Lyuben.2613:

Being able to hit at 1200=/=playing at that range.

Rifle traited is still a melee weapon.

Grenades, even when traited are simply unviable except on immobile enemies at that range. Just moving slowly is enough to not get hit by them.

I simply don’t agree with you on Grenades, they can be used vs moving enemies, it’s only a matter of skill. Just because you only can hit an immobile enemy, ain’t making it unviable! It’s by far the best setup we have for WvsW, and I have made it work both in group sPvP and solo sPvP. It’s a matter about the right setup, and the skills to aim and read movement!

If you have problems with AoEing packs of Mobs, you should try Bomb kit or Grenade Kit! Haven’t met anyone with better Steady AoE damage then my Grenade kit Engi!

Another neat thing you can use it to, is finish off people without your enemy having any chance to stop you!

I do agree 100% on this! It’s a great idea to have racial skins, and I would love it!

You really need to take yourself some time at the wiki or one of the game rewives m8!
There is no such things as healers, or tanks in this game. There is damage setups, supportive setups, and crowd control setups. Every single Proffesion in the game can do these 3 functions, and they do them in different ways!

Heck, even Single Target DPS and AoE DPS, I haven’t event head that term used yet. Pretty much every setup got tools to handle different things, and up to now there haven’t been any need in what group stuff I have been doing, to judge “who does the best DPS” but more a need of “Who is the best team player that can combo with the rest of the team”

Dremlock.4608:

Amadeus.5687:

Dremlock.4608:

To all the engineers that claim nades are a viable spec please address these two issues for me:

1: Nade travel time

2: Randomness of nade impact location within radius

With these two factors how can you attribute any successes you’ve had thus far to anything more than luck?

Also, grenade travel time can’t be called “random” our “luck based”, the speed they travel with is the same, and when you use the grenades often enough, you will learn how long it takes depending on the range you trow them. The bug with impact location is gonna be fixed sooner or later, but it is hardly a problem that large!

I don’t mean to say the travel time is random. The movement of the target you are attempting to hit is random. Due to the travel time, you have to assume where the target will be.

Dodging nades is almost as easy as dodging bombs.

The movement of a player, since it’s human controlled, will never be random. There is all ways a sense of control in what players do, and where they move. Hence, that is why we call it a Skill Shot. That you have to aim, figure out the movement of the player you against. It’s not a matter of luck, it’s a matter of how skilled you are at reading players movement. That is why I, and many other people, enjoy skill shots, because it get’s stronger and better, the better we get at using them. look at the games like LoL and HoN, where some of the most popular heroes use skill shot ability. It’s not a matter of luck, it’s a matter of skills

@Luthan,
Supply Drop is by far our best Elite Skill in sPvP, it’s a large 2sec AoE stun, with health kits, a healing turrent, Flame Turrent, and net Turrent, where both the Net and Healing turrent are quite good turrent’s in PvP Mortar is pretty much useless, and Elixir is simply just to random to be any good for SPvP

Dremlock.4608:

To all the engineers that claim nades are a viable spec please address these two issues for me:

1: Nade travel time

2: Randomness of nade impact location within radius

With these two factors how can you attribute any successes you’ve had thus far to anything more than luck?

Also, grenade travel time can’t be called “random” our “luck based”, the speed they travel with is the same, and when you use the grenades often enough, you will learn how long it takes depending on the range you trow them. The bug with impact location is gonna be fixed sooner or later, but it is hardly a problem that large!

Grenade/Elxir build, that focus on critical hits and stacking up lot’s of vulnerability to my enemies. It looks like this:
http://www.gw2db.com/skills/calc/engineer#10|10|2729|253|2454|4052|4065|30|1422|1417|1885|10|2266|0|0|0|0|0|0|30|1470|1473|1785|0|0|0|0|0|0|1|28016|28016|49965|49965|49965|49965|49965|26058|0|0|0|0|0|
I use this this setup in WvsWvsW where it beyond amazing for defending and attacking.
Aaaaand I use it as well in sPvP. With rune of the eagle, and drinking Elixir B, I pass a critical rate at 85%. In combo with the HGH trait, I can get about 6-10 stack of might running on me all the time. Also Elixir B gives Retaliation, which should’t be looked down on either
Drinking Elixir S is my “oh kitten Button”, while trowing gives me the ability to revive people, or finish off people (either doing it in stealth, or with stability)
So my role on my team is long range bombardment at battle areas, where I apply large amount of AoE vulnerability, and burst down players that get’s rooted or crippled (Each grenades do 600-1000 damage).
Works great as a Point defender/attacker with a ally as well, they run in and you keep anything trying to enter the point under fire.