Guild Wars 2

HiSaZuL.2843:

How about them jagged horrors lol.

Sadly its not a bug. Just a crap trait.

Stormy O.7025:

It seems you’re unaware of +condition durations, which I did mention in my above post. My blood marks causes bleed for 13 seconds.

There are several runes to increase the bleed duration. There’s a trait to increase bleed duration. And the power line increases condition duration.

Add the direct damage from blood mark too (albeit it’s not much) and it’s not difficult to get the damage to be over 4k.

Post your build or its not happening. So go full condition damage and full spite that tops out mark of blood at 3.8k. Now why you would go spite, no one will ever know but ok.

And yes I understand what condition duration means. Too bad you don’t. Duration is crap in pvp. Unless your playing scrubs it will never last that long.

Still don’t see how your getting it to last that long. Even with armor runes it does not get to 13 seconds. And like some one stated they don’t all stack.

chuiu.4985:

Tested again with the fire pit in the mists:

0 SR -> 14 life force lost per fire tick
15 SR -> 14 life force lost per fire tick
30 SR -> 14 life force lost per fire tick

Tested with falling damage:

30 SR -> 37 LF lost for a fall (~8k damage)
15 SR -> 37 LF lost for a fall (~8k damage)
0 SR -> 37 LF lost for a fall (~8k damage)

And again:

0 SR -> 42 LF lost for a fall (~9k damage)
30 SR -> 41 LF lost for a fall (~9k damage)

I’m going to have to go with my previous conclusions here. Soul Reaping does nothing to our life force.

The damage would be the same. The question should be did you end up with more life force after the fall with SR than with out.

Ascii.9726:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Oh you were wrong for so many reasons. This is not even taking into account that you want to compare the % damage increase instead of how much damage is actually added.

Were else was i wrong at then? the theory was solid it was in my eyes a 42% increase, the numbers spoke for themselves.

I wasn’t applying it to anything i was stating that going from 2,550 to 3,618 was a 42% increase i never applied that to actually fighting someone with armour or condition duration deductions.

Do you read my Posts. I explained why that does not work. If your unable to follow very clear examples there is not much else to do.

If you want the real number of what 10 stacks of might does for a condition Necro, please read my post. I did the calculations. I have also proven how this guys information means nothing and is invalid.

Ascii.9726:

@Enerjak.2475 i was actually in the middle of Frapsing what i was trying to prove when i realised the bleed DoT drops after the 12 seconds of might ends. The 2 × 60 bleed damage per second drops to 2 × 43 after 12 seconds.

My maths was correct its just my theory wasn’t. I assumed the +350 condition damage boost from the 10 stacks of might stayed consistent in the damage ticks throughout the 30 seconds.

Oh you were wrong for so many reasons. This is not even taking into account that you want to compare the % damage increase instead of how much damage is actually added.

@Stormy O.7025

The problem Stormy O is that it is very difficult to take what you say seriously when you make up numbers.

In SPVP with max condition damage Mark of Blood does 2.8k damage not close to 4k.

Lets do a little math. 117damage/sec per tick. So 3 ticks per sec over 8 sec.

117*3*8=2808 The exact same thing that the tool tip says. Even if we add in the might from BiP.

(117+17.5)*3*8 = 3.228. again not near 4k.

So if you want people to listen to what you have to say, don’t make up numbers.

@Gisei.5749
No what is hard is figuring out what the tool tips mean. Could be taken either way. Since 5% more of 3% is next to nothing, its not really worth anything. And all LF say % so thinking that adding 5% would mean that any skill that adds LF would add another 5%. Or could be taken as (life force)+(life force)*.05.

Problem is that it does not do either of these things. Test it your self. Go use Spectral Grasp 6 times. You should get 63% life force at the end. But you don’t. You end up with 60%. So either the game does not count % smaller than 1%, in witch case the minor really does do nothing. or the trait is bugged.

Ascii.9726:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Sorry but that is just not accurate. You can’t compare it that way. You have to look at what the base damage it will add. Not as a percentage. If you run full condition spec it adds 16% damage not 42%. Because you have to look at the total damage your doing. If you only look at it without any spec’s than you can’t look at how much percentage wise it adds to the base as this makes no since at all.

From your testing it added (2,550-3,618)=1068 damage over 30 sec.

so 1068/30=35.6dps

So in other words it only added 35.6 dps to your damage. That is very little.

I don’t know how i can be any more accurate then what i provided. 1,068 is a 42% increase in the total damage it did before to the total damage it does now.

Before 2,550 bleed damage over 30 seconds did 85 per second.
After 3,618 bleed damage over 30 seconds does 120.6 per second.

Again a 42% increase in each bleed tick before from after. 35.6 damage per tick on this and every other bleed cast during the 10 seconds after using the skill is a huge damage increase.

And i told you why that does not work. and why that 42% is misleading. Any thing looks large if you compare it to nothing. To do a percent increase like that you have to compare it to someone with max stats.

Now you can say that for a power build (that has no condition damage) that it increases his bleed damage by $$% and that would be fine. But you can’t say it increases his damage by $$% because your not taking into account that most of this damage is from DD, and that $$% increase to bleed damage is nothing compaired to how much DD damage he does.

Ok lets say you do 100 points of damage, you increase this by 50 points. You could say the damage as increased by 50%. Now lets say you do 1000 points of damage, and you increase it by the same amount 50 points. Now you have only increased your damage by 5%. Same amount of damage was added but the % of the total damage done is very different.

That is why i was giving number for a condition spec. It is only condition spec Necro’s that are going to care about bleed damage.

I gave you the exact amount of dps that it adds. Going off of your numbers you can see exactly how much Raw DPS it adds. And it just is not that much.

Munrock.3092:

Necros don’t need more ways to get life force. People just got dependent on BiP because it was handing life force to them on a platter. Now it’s a utility skill that should only be picked if it complements a player’s build strategy, and people who see power/conditions as mutually exclusive are struggling with it.

Run Tpvp and than come back and say this. We don’t have other ways of getting LF before combat starts. And that is a problem. Necro’s in tPVP start at a disadvantage and start the game missing a very large portion of their defenses. Smart teams know this and target the Necro first. This makes the Necro an easy kill at the start of a match. If the Necro tries to say and fight the Necro will get downed very fast. If the Necro Run than they other team wins by removing a player from the fight.

Ascii.9726:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

How is it a “huge damage increase”? You guys keep saying this and have nothing to back it up. While i Give you the exact amount of damage it increases for a condition damage.

Testing i just did to ‘back it up’

Top health bar is the damage to NPC done with a completely bare necromancer (no traits, 0 condition damage, 916 stats, no weapon) to replicate Blood is Power damage before the change. Total damage 2,550 over 30 seconds.

Bottom health bar is damage done to the same NPC with +356 condition damage (closest i can get to 350) replicated. (30 in Curses with no traits activated to replicate +300 condition damage, and 2 +28 condition damage runes in armour) Total damage 3,618 over 30 seconds.

Thats a 42% increase in damage before you even add bleed duration increases. Not only that but you also have +350 Power and Condition damage for at least 10 seconds to affect anything else you burst with (seen as most effective condition builds will burst with all there DoTs and Epidemic them.)

Now tell me that’s better then 20% life force.

Sorry but that is just not accurate. You can’t compare it that way. You have to look at what the base damage it will add. Not as a percentage. If you run full condition spec it adds 16% damage not 42%. Because you have to look at the total damage your doing. If you only look at it without any spec’s than you can’t look at how much percentage wise it adds to the base as this makes no since at all.

From your testing it added (2,550-3,618)=1068 damage over 30 sec.

so 1068/30=35.6dps

So in other words it only added 35.6 dps to your damage. That is very little.

@Daiva.2394

You are correct. I had not looked it up. Didn’t think i would need to.

Combo field Poison you would think would do poison. But nope. Only one instance will it apply poison.

Anyway, The rest of what i said it accurate.

It only applies a 2 sec weakness and poison on every tick.

Don’t know what build this necro was running but Locust was hitting me for 400+ a tick. For a power build it is very nice. You get an aoe damage, speed buff, and it slows. in other words everything you need in one.

Grizz.7045:

The problem is condition builds have a hard time competing. Condition ranger/necros are far less survivable than their power build counterparts? Why is it like this, both builds are missing huge amounts of vitality/extra utility skills that can be used for defense compared to power builds. Most popular condition builds for necro sit at like sub 20k life and are usually locked into epidemic/corrupt boon/plague signet. Trap condition rangers sitting at sub 17k life and forced to burn all their utility slots for traps to make the build function, instead of quickness/whatever+stun break+stone signet (much better defense).

There is no cond/vit/toughness amulet in SPvP, yet there is a power/vit/toughness one?

Maybe I’m just a conditions fan boy, but it just seems burst builds are completely outclassing condition builds by miles right now and condition builds just tend to die before they can wear people down.

What role do condition/steady dps classes have in the game? They just die to burst damage and can’t kill bunkers any faster than burst classes. They aren’t tanky enough to fight for extended periods of time so….? When you are bringing a conditions necro you are just bringing corrupt boon to kitten guardians, you don’t really give a kitten about the conditions let’s be honest.

I agree. it is a real problem.

Proven.2854:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

milo.6942:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

I would agree if the glass cannons damage was on longer CD. But when they are on very short or no CD like the current game is than we have a problem.

Speaking only from personal experience using a 100b warrior sometimes,
100b has like 8 second recharge, but it’s useless without kd + frenzy. It roots me and they can just walk out of it, so the “recharge” for my spike is closer to 45 seconds for a traited frenzy. This is about the same recharge of anti-spike skills (such as elixer s on my engineer). I’m not saying your complaint doesn’t have any merit, just that it seems the devs have considered these kinds of situations. We’ll see what kind of balance changes they make in the future.

Problem is that this is not a 1v1 game. You don’t need frenzy if others give it to you. You don’t need kd if others do it for you. And you can hit with 100b with out frenzy or kb if you set up your team correctly.

So while the solo set up CD might be longer, the group set up CD is much shorter.

Also, the sustain just has to be caught once for the Burst to own him. While the sustain has to take time to kill a burst.

And speaking as a Necro. Burst should almost never die to a Necro. We have very limited means of keeping you in a fight. If a burst wanted to run away from a Necro they can do so most of the time.

But as you just said, it’s not a 1v1 game. Just as multiple people have ways to help CC to setup for a burst, there are multiple ways on all classes to help the teammate CC’d to get away from the burst, usually by CC’ing the guy that does the burst.

And it isn’t easy to give other people quickness. There’s just Time Warp. An Elite skill with a long cooldown.

Look, this game is different than others. Remember that. It’s not just that they blew up the holy trinity, but that they also replaced it with their own balance.

Balanced/Sustain builds need stun breakers and CC to beat burst builds. Once bursts use up their CC or quickness skills, they’re boned. This also makes balanced builds great for team fights. As many of you have already noticed, Condition builds give great sustain, often need to slot utilities to help in team fights anyway, and are always a boon to your side during a big battle. They fit into this. Balanced/Sustain builds are often the ones that come in with decent damage and a lot of damage mitigation through conditions and stuns. Most Mesmers, believe or not, are playing this way.

Burst builds need to beat Bunker builds in any control point based game. Don’t look at just RPGs. FPS games like TF2 make a good example. When they turtle up, you send a flanking class to take them out or severely cripple them, like Sniper, Spy, Scout, etc. Burst builds are the ones that try to focus on 1v1s. That’s what Thief does right now, although I think they might have one too many escape mechanisms.

Defense/Support builds focus on survivability. These are your frontline fighters that try to take the brunt of the CC and burst. And then they only get back up again because their teammates come and pressure the opponents off of them. That’s why it often takes two balanced builds or a burst build to take them out. Or, again from other games, you need a flanker to come in and either kill them or severely cripple them. Otherwise you find yourself needing to retreat as their help comes in, which will now demolish you.

And during all of this, despite these advantages, the better player can still win. It’s more of a soft circle of balance than a hard counter system. Balanced/Sustain builds are currently the hardest builds in the game to properly make and use (outside of Mesmers, I think) so that’s why they’re not doing their job very well at the moment. But one thing they were able to help right away was defensive builds having a way too easy time against burst builds, especially in a control point based game.

I don’t think you understand what your saying.

By definition a bunker build will be the most tanky build in the game. If a burst Spec can take one down fast, what is going to happen to all other spec? Any other non bunker build is going to have less defense than an bunker build so a Burst Spec is going to kill them even faster. The meta will end up everyone running a burst spec.

@xloz.6280

Are Necro’s performing at the level they should be? No. So they are UP. The reason they are under power/performing does not matter. It still takes the Dev to fix, and YES it is a fix.

@LastDay.3524

Correct. I just tried it and yep it is still broken.

Hollow.6189:

while i would have to agree gw2 still has quite a bit diversity when it comes to pve such as your race, weapon type, class, etc while pvp becomes quite a drag with the slow glory and experience rate and not to mention 1 game mode and 4 maps it becomes hard to stay enveloped in pvp. while im not a die hard wow fan i enjoyed their pvp system, not demeaning anet, maybe a page out of their book couldnt hurt. anyway fun game cant wait to finish my first computer build so i can truly enjoy the game. keep it coming anet

I think the problem some people (not me i don’t care about skins i just play for fun) are having is with the reword system. As soon as you hit the next tier of rank, you burn through tens of thousands of Glory buying Chests and get all the gear from that rank range in the first hour of hitting that rank (10,20,30,…). Then you have nothing to look forward to until you get another 10 ranks. This just gets worse the higher in rank you are as it takes way longer to hit the next tier. For people that like getting rewards this can feel very boring and repetitive.

Lloyd.8710:

what i don’t understand is why if they were hurting for life force why not just use spectral grasp and pick up the extra trait for more life force gain on use…it shares the same cd as blood is power. they buffed both moves. you can call it a nerf if you want, but by that logic you could also say all horses are alien beings from mars. Doesn’t mean you would be right about that either. If you needed the 20% life force gain for more survival it probably fell down to poor choice on utility skills…spectral armor covers that problem completly

You said “pick up the extra trait for more life force gain on use” I (and others as there is another post) assumed you were talking about Gluttony.

No Spectral Armor does not do the same thing. If you had played Tpvp you would understand that you start every fight with 0 LF. This means that if your jumped before you have a chance to build any LF your already behind the curve. Using Spectral Armor just for LF gain means i will not have it for the Stun Break. Or the reason its on my bar in the first place.

Spectral Grasp pulls a player to me, if running conditions, this is the last thing i want to do. It also only gives 10% LF. They closed a door with out opening any other doors. The uses for BIP are not the same as the uses of Spectral Grasp. What they took away from BIP was not replaced by anything.

Sezu.8564:

I’d like to hear your counter for having 2 mesmers use portals to indefinitely teleport their full team between 2 points.

This is a broken mechanic, especially in a territory based game.

I have played a tpvp game (last round) were the other team had 4 Mesmers all with teleport. We ended up wining but it was a pain.

Lloyd.8710:

what i don’t understand is why if they were hurting for life force why not just use spectral grasp and pick up the extra trait for more life force gain on use…it shares the same cd as blood is power. they buffed both moves. you can call it a nerf if you want, but by that logic you could also say all horses are alien beings from mars. Doesn’t mean you would be right about that either. If you needed the 20% life force gain for more survival it probably fell down to poor choice on utility skills…spectral armor covers that problem completly

Spectral armor is a untraited 90 sec CD and only give you LF when hit. And as some one else said, Gluttony does not work.

@kKagari.6804
I’ll take “Thinks that are not true Alex” (your signature)

Karther.7481:

Is the opposite, our Dark Path, still slow or was that updated too?

I can’t really tell much of a difference with Dark Path. Although its way fun when you have quickness. First time i used it after the patch was when someone dropped quickness. Had no idea i had it (since you can’t see them in DS) so i was all kinds of excited but nope.

As a person playing a Real broken Prof. I don’t care about nerf’s at this moment I just want Bugs fixed.

Thief’s, Fix the bug that lets them perma stealth and their goes a lot of their “op” (i am talking about the rendering bug that makes it so that other players can’t see the Thief/Mesmser for 2-3 sec after their stealth has ended).

Fix necro bugs so that they are no longer UP.

Asmodean.5820:

My vote is on necrotic grasp. What use has this skill when the projectile flies at snails speed and is even sometimes outrun (out of reach), doesn’t work (the guy gets pulled maybe 2 cm on the screen towards you on plain terrain) or does nothing at all. When it works, though, then you are so surprised that you are too shocked to react in time hahaha

You should try it now. its very fast and worth while now.

Karther.7481:

How is Gluttony meant to work? 5% more of your whole Life Force bar per Life Force gaining attack? So 3% gained becomes 8%? That seems very overpowered, especially for a 5 pt trait. I always assumed it was 5% more of what you already do, but ofcourse that value is too low to do anything.

There’s also Plague Signet I just remembered. The whole support element of it means nothing when it doesn’t actually remove anything from allies. Very poor.

I have tested it, It does not even add 5% of that 3%. or 3.15. Currently it does nothing. I always thought it was a type and still does not work as 50% added would make more since. so 3% turns into 4.5% and so forth.

Karther.7481:

…It has to be the Greater Marks trait in the Death Magic line. The trait and how it destroys half the use of Chillblains (the snare/poison circle).

After two Necromancer fixes we’ve been waiting for since beta, I’m actually quite shocked they’ve not addressed this. Am I the only one that feels this way?

I really hope they give it some attention soon, as far as I know there’s no way around it and in my opinion it puts every staff using Necromancers at a severe disadvantage.

While that is a good one. My vote is on Gluttony. It is the one bug that is making lots of builds have problems gaining LF.

Xelfer.9710:

I’ll just assume you watched 10 second and closed the video, go troll another thread.

Ya so in other words you are running one. Did i watch every sec. nope. Did i watch a lot of it. Yep. And that’s why i can tell your a bad player. You don’t dodge. you don’t use your Slows to make sure your foes stay in your well. You jump into DS with out any reason too. You were just carried by your team. You stand around spaming 1 on the staff doing next to no damage.

and yes you have 30 points into SR.

By the way when i say condition spec, your damage (what little there was from it) is from condition.

Xelfer.9710:

i’m running epidemic o.O not that I see… and the plague signet is a stun break?

Your right, its corrupt boon.

Again your not saying anything that shows your not running a condition build.

Xelfer.9710:

doesn’t look like a condi build to me :/

LOL scepter/dagger, staff. Running Epidemic, and plague signet.

Your running a condition spec. It might be a condition/well spec but still a condition spec.

I run something very similar.

Enerjak.2475:

How can you even say that, when Well of Blood is several thousand HP by itself, not including the heal over time, combined with 3x life stealing per pulse, per target caught in it (life steal per hit, life steal per critical, life stealing wells)? Combine this with 3 other wells, all pulsing for 3x life stealing.

Several thousand from Well of Blood initially… Line of Warding down the middle to block passage with Wall of Reflection, I stand on one side, enemies clouded together on the other (very typical if you have half a brain in TA against the spider hordes, as a for-instance among many). A few hundred per second PER MOB from the 3x life steal + Well of Blood’s per-second heal ticking.

3 other Wells, each granting some 100 health per second, per mob.

Add to the mix 15 mobs on the other side of that line of warding (the approximate number of TA spiders in 1 pull, if not more).

(15 mobs x 50 life steal [it is actually more, but I’m calculating modestly for your amusement] x 3 utility wells x 5 pulses) + (152 per tick Well of Blood heal x 10 seconds + 5,240 heal + (50 life steal [again, actually more but I’m humoring you] x 10 pulses)) = 18,510 healing. That is 90% of most player’s life bars at level 80.

This assumes that you have 0 points in Healing (which would increase these numbers).

This formula also assumes you stood still for 10 seconds and did not use any other attack or skill. Naturally if you do, it would be higher.

These are common PvE implications. I do this a minimum of 5-7x every TA run. In WvW PvP it has similar implications, but admittedly not QUITE as effective as in PvE (human players have the annoying habit of moving and often need locked down by Guardian AoE movement-blocking skills first).

It’s okay. I know you failed math class. I do hope this clarifies your stupidity however.

What are you talking about, next time get your facts straight. Wells are capped out at 5 targets. Most, if not all, AOE’s are capped out at 5. Sorry but your not getting that much healing.

Oblivion.8307:

well of darkness is essentially a 5 second immunity to melee classes, his only blast finisher is putrid mark which is essentially group wide condi removal, wasting that on darkness field for blind? His build is condition but it’s essentially for tanking and surviving with so much life force gen with i’d assume a shaman’s amulet.

Well played Xelfer

Well just tested it. Looks like they fixed it. It used to give blindness on each tick of a well. So it did the exact same thing as well of darkness. Also he does not have to be the one to use a blast finisher. Lots of Other prof have them. But oh well.

Xelfer.9710:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vq5OIpK6SxQ

Play is not without a lot of errors on my part but still high level play by 2 good teams with necro playing a vital part.

twitch.tv/xelfer5

How are you giving necro’s hope? We already knew that a condition build is viable.

A note on your playing. You don’t seem to like to dodge. You went down a few times and not once did you dodge.

Also why run Well of Darkness?

You can get the exact same effect from all the other wells (not counting well of blood) by using the Combo Field.

Teknomancer.8475:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Ascii.9726:

Bottom line: Those people who used it as a huge life force filler will call it a nurf despite the huge damage increase it provides. Condition Necromancers do have a hard time building life force yes but you shouldn’t be relying on one skill to build it all the time anyway.

Its a buff and quite a big one in my opinion, why?

well… with 106% critical damage…

How is it a “huge damage increase”? You guys keep saying this and have nothing to back it up. While i Give you the exact amount of damage it increases for a condition damage.

I think it is perceived as any damage boost is a huge damage boost for us. =(
Or that since the damage boost comes in terms of might, it can be used however we want and is thus, a damage boost to every single damage skill we have, right?

True, but it was a damage nerf if you use DS to do damage.

They are hashes.4523:

*
· (NB0082) General hit-box landing hits issue when attacking breackable objects using Lich Form, Death Shroud, Scepter, and many other weapons.
Destructible items like boxes, are being really difficult and slow to destroy by staff / scepter Necromancers.
• Reaper’s Touch (Focus skill): the bounces only activate if an eligible target is within 600 range.

I can confirm that NB0082 is true for Scepter in spvp ClockTower windows. I have found it near, if not, impossible to break the windows using the scepter.

They are hashes.4523:

@Alamir : If Lich’s casting is interrupted you get a full 180 secs CD?
@Angry Flying Squirrel : (NB0072) Glutttony status updated.
@Fynd : If you post it as a “problem” or “suggestion” i will add it to the list, make the description short please. (I got no time to do it, exams…)

don’t forget about

Corrosive Poison Cloud

Does not apply 5 sec Poison;
Does not apply 10 sec weakness;
Both are 2sec, per tick

Also the combo Field is not Poison it is Weakness.

Ascii.9726:

Bottom line: Those people who used it as a huge life force filler will call it a nurf despite the huge damage increase it provides. Condition Necromancers do have a hard time building life force yes but you shouldn’t be relying on one skill to build it all the time anyway.

Its a buff and quite a big one in my opinion, why?

well… with 106% critical damage…

How is it a “huge damage increase”? You guys keep saying this and have nothing to back it up. While i Give you the exact amount of damage it increases for a condition damage.

From my testing Gluttony does not work.

Using staff auto attack, with out glutton you get 3% life force. With Gluttony you get 3% life force.

It is expected that with Gluttony we would get 8% life force.

So either Glutton is not working or its working like the following.

3%+3%*.05=3.15%

This is so small that you would not even see it.

Ok did another test. Used Specral Pull 6 times. This gives 60% life force. With Gluttony I should have gotten
60+6*5=90

That did not happen

So if Gluttony works likes so

Life Force + (Life Force)*0.05

Than I should have gotten
60+(10*0.05)*6=63

Again this did not happen as i ended up with 60

So Gluttony does not work.

@Chidawg.6315

Did you bother to read my posts? The math is right there. I told you exactly how much damage it is and how much it would do (condition damage). you just keep saying its a lot. And i am giving you exact numbers.

milo.6942:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

I would agree if the glass cannons damage was on longer CD. But when they are on very short or no CD like the current game is than we have a problem.

Speaking only from personal experience using a 100b warrior sometimes,
100b has like 8 second recharge, but it’s useless without kd + frenzy. It roots me and they can just walk out of it, so the “recharge” for my spike is closer to 45 seconds for a traited frenzy. This is about the same recharge of anti-spike skills (such as elixer s on my engineer). I’m not saying your complaint doesn’t have any merit, just that it seems the devs have considered these kinds of situations. We’ll see what kind of balance changes they make in the future.

Problem is that this is not a 1v1 game. You don’t need frenzy if others give it to you. You don’t need kd if others do it for you. And you can hit with 100b with out frenzy or kb if you set up your team correctly.

So while the solo set up CD might be longer, the group set up CD is much shorter.

Also, the sustain just has to be caught once for the Burst to own him. While the sustain has to take time to kill a burst.

And speaking as a Necro. Burst should almost never die to a Necro. We have very limited means of keeping you in a fight. If a burst wanted to run away from a Necro they can do so most of the time.

Killthehealersffs.8940:

Join some tpvp , if u find some skilled players-oponents , try to speak and ask them if they want to join ur guild and what time ur team will be playing :P
Ppl can join mutlyplay guilds and join their friends server from free :P

You can’t join your Friends server. And the guild cap is 4.

sorrow.2364:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

sorrow.2364:

What I feel?
I feel that skill incredibly powerful, it actually stands out from the average useless Necro skills.

Seriously, it applies 2 bleed (+2 on you transferible) stacks plus gives you 10 stack of might which actually increases the condition damage of an amazing 300 points (30 damage per tick if I’m not wrong).

Who can say that skill is useless or it is a nerf? I think that now it is a must on every Burst/Condition build bar.

You are wrong. The Math has been done to death. Its 350 condition damage, and you only get 5% of that. so its 17.5 more damage a tick.

Also no such thing as burst conditions. That just how conditions work.

I meant Burst or Condition, not both xP
However 17.5 more damage per tick isn’t insignificant, it can make a difference considering how fast bleed ticks.

They tick 1 per sec. So even with a stack of 10 bleeds that’s 175 damage more per sec. That is a very sad gain in dps. So lets say they last for the full 14 sec.

175*14= 2450 damage increase over that time.

So saying that your could hit 10 stacks instantly (you can’t) and it stay on the target for that long (most of the time it will not, and lets not forget the 25 bleed stack limit) your looking at 2450 more damage.

Sorry but that is just not that much.

Valador.3461:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Ya you can do it but not before the other team shows up to kills you. And so the bunker wins.

Remove this horrible control the node game mode and problem solved…

Rather see the sPvP maps replaced with single keep zones, like the ones in DAoC. Smaller than the WvW area, but bigger than the tiny maps we have now. No people trying to flex their kitten and trying to outscore everyone on their team, but an actual group effort to benefit their realm, in this case server…

Sorry but I like tactics in my pvp. Don’t want brain dead DM. Or something that is already done, WvW.

It matters when your trying to
1) find a group
2) find a guild
3) look cool?

milo.6942:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

If burst can take down a bunker than whats going to happen to all other other Spec? Burst>sustain.
Burst>bunker
Every one plays Burst.

Currently
Burst>sustain
sustain>bunker But takes way way too long to kill. So the Bunker ends up winning.

Just try taking down a Bunker with a necro. Ya you can do it but not before the other team shows up to kills you. And so the bunker wins.

Well, glass cannon’s enemy is their own squishiness. If you can avoid their damage for a few seconds, make them waste their skills, a balanced should have enough damage to kill them. A bunker should not have enough damage to easily kill one, however. I’m only speaking about where I think the developers are trying to take the game’s meta, maybe not precisely where it is right now.

I would agree if the glass cannons damage was on longer CD. But when they are on very short or no CD like the current game is than we have a problem.

I pvp and so I turn off auto attack. Not a big deal.

milo.6942:

Just a couple thoughts

Bunker purpose is to “waste time” not necessarily “win” a 1v1 fight. Hold the point until reinforcements come, or simply until they die on the point having bought as much time as possible while denying the enemy the cap points.

Sustain/balanced is not supposed to counter a bunker, because by its very name you can see that it is playing into the bunker’s favor by wasting time. It’s largely irrelevant if the sustain can eventually win, the bunker has prevented the enemy from easily overtaking the point and gained his team time+points. Not to mention there is plenty of time for the guardian to signal to his team’s roamer to come and assist him.

Glass cannons are supposed to be counters to bunkers because they kill quickly, thereby not wasting time and not playing in favor of the bunker’s strategy. I can see what Jon is saying with the retaliation. A bursty glass cannon has minimal hp and would simply blow up against retaliation, when normally a bunker should not have sufficient damage to threaten a squikittenarget. I think the dynamic that they possibly want to encourage is the cannon would fake a burst of some sort to make the bunker trigger their retal, so then they back off and wait for it to end, then kill the bunker quickly. I suppose then it would be an obvious problem if the guardian could just keep retal up most of the time, making a clear opening for the burst difficult to gain.

And then of course balanced/sustain is encouraged to bring some sort of “o kitten” burst defense so they can get out of the glass cannon’s burst and turn around to make him explode like a wet paper bag.

Again, these are only a few thoughts I had after reading everyone’s posts.

If burst can take down a bunker than whats going to happen to all other other Spec? Burst>sustain.
Burst>bunker
Every one plays Burst.

Currently
Burst>sustain
sustain>bunker But takes way way too long to kill. So the Bunker ends up winning.

Just try taking down a Bunker with a necro. Ya you can do it but not before the other team shows up to kills you. And so the bunker wins.

sorrow.2364:

What I feel?
I feel that skill incredibly powerful, it actually stands out from the average useless Necro skills.

Seriously, it applies 2 bleed (+2 on you transferible) stacks plus gives you 10 stack of might which actually increases the condition damage of an amazing 300 points (30 damage per tick if I’m not wrong).

Who can say that skill is useless or it is a nerf? I think that now it is a must on every Burst/Condition build bar.

You are wrong. The Math has been done to death. Its 350 condition damage, and you only get 5% of that. so its 17.5 more damage a tick.

Also no such thing as burst conditions. That just how conditions work.

Corrosive Poison Cloud

Does not apply 5 sec Poison;
Does not apply 10 sec weakness;

Both are 2sec.

Also the combo Field is not Poison it is Weakness.

Poxxia.1547:

@cainejw: … but if that happened, then it is a 3vs1 and perhaps you shouldn’t have engaged them? Or it could be, that your positioning was bad, or your team-mates are not backing you up … or you are not using your CC properly? I am not bashing you (or saying L2P), just saying, that even with the simplicity that quickness seems to promote, there are other possible solutions to getting out of a sticky situation apart from dodging..

When did hey say it was 1v3? It could have been 3v3, and that still would happen.

Daays.4317:

You don’t bring a heavy defensive player to counter heavy offensive. You bring them to counter well rounded players. Heavy defense isn’t that effective vs heavy offense in a game without healers, because that defensive class can’t put enough pressure on the offensive one to down him in time before being downed himself.

That being said, the most effective way to counter heavy defense is with a heavy offensive glass cannon class. You don’t need defense when fighting someone with little to no offensive pressure. That was the point he was making.

And that’s where retal comes in. It counters the heavy offense playstyle. This allows bunker classes to not only be effective agaisnt well-rounded consistent pressure, but also the high burst and heavy offense.

Heavy Defensive > Well-rounded
Heavy Offensive > Heavy Defense
Well-rounded > Heavy Offense

How do Condition spec fit in to that?

Psychrome.9281:

in regards to paid tourneys, i consider my self a very serious pvper, but i am not going to pay to pvp, not only is that ridiculous in my opinion but half the time i cant afford those little extras …its one of the reasons i am enjoying GW2 (it being subscription free)

the other side being i want to play with my friends in sPVP i want to help build strategies and practice so i dont look like a huge noob when i go into tourneys, and with streaming being very easy to do nowadays i would rather have my stuff together before i go against one of these streamers and have my unpreparedness broadcast for all to see.

there should definitely be a way for guilds to practice together outside of just jumping into tourneys.

if they had a practice tourney selection that was free and garnered no rewards in regards to rank, glory, or rating then i personally would be happy that way i could get my guildies to join and work on strategies without the experienced players crushing us. of course those would not be as challenging as “real tourneys” but it would give us the opportunity to practice our strats. so when we do venture into the tourneys we will at least have some level of preparedness.

You don’t have to pay real money. You use tourney Tokens you get from Free tourneys. Although you do have the option to spend real money to get Tourney Tokens if you so wish.