Guild Wars 2

Dorrin.9784:

Everyone complaining about paying for custom arenas, has forgotten you do not pay a monthly fee to play this MMO. Secondly the addition of the custom arenas does not affect sPVP or tPVP, as you can still play on non-custom arenas just as before. Lastly if you would like ANET to continue to provide other types of additional free in game content, things like this support it. That is all.

We don’t pay a monthly fee for the game because the game is not worth a monthly fee.

alcopaul.2156:

Muramasma.1570:

Wow. Just wow. You’ve obviously never played a sport before, or at least played one you actually liked. While fame is obviously a great motive for reaching the NBA, you really actually truly believe what you’re typing?

Sports are just a hobby, for most, sure. But for athletes, it becomes their bread and butter. I don’t know but you seem oblivious to the fact that athletes earn millions from doing simple objectives like putting a ball inside a ring. it can be a serious thing. i’m sure you’re aware of professional e-sport gamers.

Furthermore, you expect the discontented PvP community to just force swallow all these terrible changes (or terrible lack of changes) and ANet’s horrible, out of touch priorities IN A GAME??? This is a kitten video game, and one without a monthly fee to boot. I’ve no obligation to force myself to play a game that not only has failed to deliver the solid content that so many expected, especially when the devs have shown absolutely no sign of our opinions being heard.

you’re assuming that you’re the influential part of the community. i just watched a tourney and it reached 4k. people are playing pvp and they are in the ladder. people are speaking highly of this game. people like you just bring the negative vibe down here and can’t appreciate its beauty because you’re used to old stuffs. The old stuff is still there. /reinstall GW1.

What we ARE concerned with is the fact that GW2’s PvP lacks depth. What’s more, it lacks the amazingly unique and strategically satisfying experience of its predecessor, although this is more forgiveable. Many of us were actually expecting more than just a copy paste of GW1 mechanics; we were excited for the new things ANet was bringing to the table. The problem is, practically ALL of these changes have done nothing but water down all that was so incredible about their previous. I refuse to believe you actually think that simply making a terribly lackluster game more exciting to watch is preferable over making a terribly lackluster game more exciting to play. Who gives a kitten if someone’s good at World of Charrcraft: Modern Warfare 2???

the scene is still starting to grow because of community support, streaming and whatnot. And since there is only 1 game mode, a.net could certainly add another game mode in the future, if deemed necessary. IDK why it was released with 1 game mode but i think it’s a strategic decision to do so, in their part.

I’m actually pretty convinced that you’re an elaborate troll now, so I’m wrapping this up even though I have a lot more to say. (Most) sports are wildly popular because they are exciting to play. Yes, they are exciting to watch as well, but you don’t think that that doesnt have everything to do with the experience of playing it?

No, forget it, I’m done.

no man, you dismiss my opinions because i’m from MATH and i’m just an avid spectator and evaluate something through careful observation. and now i’m a troll.

i loled.

You don’t really get it do you. For every pro sports teams there are 10’s of teams that make nothing. Pro sport players are the minority in every single sport on the planet.

Blink Squikitten605:

Kneru.8014:

You’re right, about the “months of the same” part. But wrong when it comes to the gear treadmill issue.

What other games have are features, different modes, and rankings. If ANet would add 1 or 2 maps that are not conquest, I’m sure a lot of people would come back. Give us better match making, leaderboards, show us ratings, and give us some team death match or something to break up the monotony.

What we dont need is a gear gap between players where gear > skill.

Don’t misunderstand me, a gear treadmill is exactly what I don’t want. In fact, if WoW removed their gear treadmill for PvP (and I was still interested in playing) I might consider re-subbing.

But even if you add more interesting game types to GW2, that still doesn’t change the fact that competitive players have nothing to work for (ie. rank/rating) and it wouldn’t be long before people would want to get off the pointless treadmill again.

1. Introduce proper progression (rating)
2. More play variety (map types)
3. Multiple formats to appeal to a broad PvP community – Hot joins, custom servers, rated games and tournaments (I’m referring to real tournaments, not the “rated” games that ANet currently call tournaments).
4. Weapons and armor that actually differentiate you based on the game format you prefer. (spot the hot join hero, the rated players, the tournament winners)

For example:
Four NPCs in the mists
> Hot Join Hero Harold – select game format (Cap point, CTF, Deathmatch etc.)
> Custom server Charlie – (all the options plus the ability to host custom tournaments)
> Rated Match Marty – select game format – select solo/premade
> Tournament Tim – ANet sponsored tournaments with nice in-game rewards.

Just some thoughts.

who cares about the pro’s playing. How about we just get average players playing the game? How about we start making pvp fun in this game so that more people will play it. dota 2 does not have a ranking system, does not have (visible) rating. And yet 100’s of thousandths play everyday. WoW has a larger proportion of its population playing its pvp then GW2 has playing its. And no they are not playing it to get gear, the gear is crap for PVE so they are playing it to pvp, yes they get better gear to…oh i don’t know perhaps pvp? Anet needs to start working on making this game fun for people to play, then build from there.

tapsumbong.6470:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Blink Squikitten605:

Bestan, I think I understand where you are coming from, but you need to step back and understand the real reasons WoW pvp is more popular (besides having 2-4 times the player-base if you believe the subscription numbers).

The answer is simply ‘progression’. WoW has basically 3 structured pvp modes, Battleground, Rated Battlegrounds and Arenas. If you removed the gear grind by giving all players equal gear, only one mode would see a drastic drop in players, and that would be random battlegrounds. Those playing in arena and RBGs still have their progression by way of their rating/rank. When I played, the gear grind was simply a necessity, but once the team is maxed statted, we continued to play to push our rating higher and higher.

Another problem with GW2 is armor inflation/stagnation. In my opinion, there are too many and too diverse sets of armor for PvP and the biggest problem is having PvE armor sets as a reward for PvP. There needs to be a few DISTINCT sets of PvP armor, some you can get by grinding glory in hot join (there will always be players willing to do that), and another by using some sort of tourney points and another that can only be acquired by reaching a certain rating in tournaments. Ideally, this armor should be transmutable onto PvE gear to appeal to those who like to show off in Lion’s Arch or something (and I can see no reason not to).

Finally, and this has been discussed to death already, there needs to be a proper VISIBLE rating/ranking system (even if rating is only visible to individual players). We need to see some progression.

Competitive players love to pvp, but after months of the same, we’re starting to realize that while other games have a gear treadmill, all we have is a treadmill.

Sorry but i played WoW from the beginning, and if they removed gear from the game i would stop playing arenas. Battlegrounds are by far way more fun then the crap that is arenas. The only reason to play arenas is for the gear.

For you perhaps. I only played arena for getting ratings and achievements, but I stopped because each big patch / expansion, you have to get all the gear again. The majority of the hardcore pvpers in wow all want normalized gear and cosmetic rewards only, the pve crowd want the gear treadmill.

That is what i was agreeing with. I never said i wanted gear advantage. I was just saying arenas were crap.

Blink Squikitten605:

Bestan, I think I understand where you are coming from, but you need to step back and understand the real reasons WoW pvp is more popular (besides having 2-4 times the player-base if you believe the subscription numbers).

The answer is simply ‘progression’. WoW has basically 3 structured pvp modes, Battleground, Rated Battlegrounds and Arenas. If you removed the gear grind by giving all players equal gear, only one mode would see a drastic drop in players, and that would be random battlegrounds. Those playing in arena and RBGs still have their progression by way of their rating/rank. When I played, the gear grind was simply a necessity, but once the team is maxed statted, we continued to play to push our rating higher and higher.

Another problem with GW2 is armor inflation/stagnation. In my opinion, there are too many and too diverse sets of armor for PvP and the biggest problem is having PvE armor sets as a reward for PvP. There needs to be a few DISTINCT sets of PvP armor, some you can get by grinding glory in hot join (there will always be players willing to do that), and another by using some sort of tourney points and another that can only be acquired by reaching a certain rating in tournaments. Ideally, this armor should be transmutable onto PvE gear to appeal to those who like to show off in Lion’s Arch or something (and I can see no reason not to).

Finally, and this has been discussed to death already, there needs to be a proper VISIBLE rating/ranking system (even if rating is only visible to individual players). We need to see some progression.

Competitive players love to pvp, but after months of the same, we’re starting to realize that while other games have a gear treadmill, all we have is a treadmill.

Sorry but i played WoW from the beginning, and if they removed gear from the game i would stop playing arenas. Battlegrounds are by far way more fun then the crap that is arenas. The only reason to play arenas is for the gear.

condiments.8043:

Its good to hear from Vain again! Hopefully Korea goes well for you.

Anyways, I think have right to be angry about the fact the game wasn’t feature ready upon release, and continues to persist in a half-finished state 7 months in. I mean, I thought I was realistic about the timetable of when features are coming to the game, but I keep having to readjust them every patch because nothing comes. I still have fun playing this game, I just wish they might have delayed launch for a little bit more to squeeze out those necessary features and balance(or basic infrastructure work, which tied them up for a while).

On the flipside, if you were ignore the marketing schlock about how this game was going to be E-Sport ready(no MMO has ever achieved E-sport potential), you have to be a bit cynical even regarding the substantiality of the pvp features that would even be seen at launch. Historically, PvE for MMOs comes first with PvP coming a far dead second(GW1 was not an MMO in a traditional sense). PvP features often come many months even years to reach any point of actual worthiness for competitive play. MMOs differ from games like LoL, DOTA, SC2 in that they are multi-faceted experiences where things like content generation, workload/resources balancing among teams is immensely difficult task that most companies fail to do(Most MMOs either fail entirely or move to more profitable exploitative models like F2P).

The big problem right now with PvP is that its the least profitable sector of GW2 right now for Anet. They got caught with their pants down at release and have failed to come with at least a rudimentary monetary structure(paid tournies…lol) that would justify the investment when they see far more returns creating content grinds for the PvE hordes who would throw real money away like crazy to grind for virtual skins. Why push money into PvP to please a shrinking contingent when you can keep building on the better infrastructure already in place and make the game live to its first expansion. They’ve basically just tasked a small team to basically grind away at the necessary features of the game over months, probably putting crazy hours in so they can get their part of the game up to par so they can get more support to start pushing it. I feel sorry for them really, they never had a chance. :P

Despite the naysayers I do think GW2 will eventually succeed on the basis that the “core”, the gameplay, is absolutely amazing and 95 percent of games fail to reach such a lofty goal. Unfortunately, the rest of everything is just going to take some time.

And you hit the nail on the head on why b2p games are a bad idea for MMO’s.

Vanthian.9267:

Atlanis.6597:

It was never their view. I’ve not seen a professionally developed game in the past ten years that held that view. Imbalances between classes are necessary for an interesting game.

Imbalances no, uniqueness yes. In most MMOs every class can do something different I agree, but those different abilities are on par so that not one of them have a wide advantage over the other. Do some MMOs fail at balance? Why, yes they do! Are some actually pretty good at balance? Yes there are a few. I agree uniqueness is great in MMOs but imbalances make for more dull and uninteresting combat.

I am not arguing for uniform professions. I am saying we need balance between the unique classes. It is not fun nor interesting to have a unkillable class that can do whatever they want and get away with it. It is not fun to play nor play against.

Also, yes it was their view to have a balanced game. They openly stated they wanted all the professions to be able to do anything, maybe have one or two that is slightly, yes they used the word slightly, better at one thing than another but nothing outlandish like we have. Recently however, they did UPDATE their view on professions and wouldn’t you know it they just went with a 90 degree turn. Sure every class can do everything but the differences are staggering.

So, like I said in my original post, their original view and statement of the classes were that of balance: Every profession is close to one another in every field. This is why they didn’t want the “holy trinity” they kept on yelling about.

Just to show you how far apart some of the balance issues are… Compare Warrior support to Guardian support.

Yep they did state at the beginning that all classes would be about equal with just some being a little better then others at very specific things. But then again they also said they wanted to be an e-spot, and have competitive pvp, and fun pvp, and they didn’t want to have multiple pvp game modes as that would split the community (and the first thing they did? split it into hot join and tpvp, then adding a 3rd in the form of paid’s, god Anet is a joke). They either lied about a lot of things or they changed their minds, or they just failed at it.

It lacks fun, and body length

faeral.7120:

please nerf forum rage. it’s so overplayed.

ppl are just upset b/c for all GW2’s faults, there is nothing better. so let’s just grade this on a curve for now, shall we?

There are lots of things better, and everyone left to go play them. Were do you think they all went?

DDog.4350:

1. Who said i was talking about champions level 12? Its obvious that its the players level to be 12 as u cant change summoner skills while in-game -.-"

2. please, just please explain how a combo with 4 skills (you allways do the same combo, because u dont have more then 4 skills xD) is harder then chaining several combo’s like engineer or ele can.

3. Downed state. Obviously u harder to get kills as you have the option to revive.

But please, explain my pt2

1. not what you said.

2. shows how bad you are if your doing the same combo every time. To be fair, i was thinking of Dota 2 more. Skills mean way more there. Also again who is saying that its the 4 skills that makes lol combat more complex? your the only one saying that. Its more than just the 4 skills. If all you do is mindlessly chain them and from what you said you do, i would hate to be on your team. Also the full match is what makes the game complex. The fact that the game has phases, that the map changes over time. That different hero’s are better at different times.

Talking about dota 2 (which IMO is much harder and takes more skill), its about how you build your items, how you counter on the fly, what do you get when do you get it. When do each hero get there abilities and when do they start getting combos. How do those combos work with the other heroes they have. How do they work with the items they have. Keeping track of how much damage they should be doing vs your own damage. Some hero’s are much better early then late, that changes how you play, do you push hard to press your advantage? Or do you try and drag the game out because you have late game hero’s that need the farm and need time. How do you deal with that. Do you take a tower, do you wait. When do you gank, when do you sit back and just farm. Is it worth risking your life for that kill? Knowing that a fail helps the other team. Its a constant battle with your long term goals and short term goals.

3. good team know how to get around down state. Look at a pro LoL game vs a GW2 game. there are more deaths in the 15min of a GW2 then a full 30-40 min game of LoL (part of the reason i play dota 2 vs LoL these days, LoL its more important to farm then to gank)

the objective in tpvp is a passive objective, hold the point. If you hold two points there is very little reason for you to move off of that point. You will win that way, you just have to wait. It makes the game boring to play and very boring to watch, there are no phases, no meaningful objectives that progress the game (that has change with the new map).

Kando.9046:

I would just like to point out that saying that node capping/battlegrounds is boring is only your opinion. I personally have always enjoyed battlegrounds objective based pvp over straight killing or death match and have many friends who feel the same way, adding a deathmatch or non objective based arenas shouldn’t be off the table as a possibility but taking out or redesigning the game hurting battleground style pvp to introduce arenas would not be a step forward.

+1

That being said there is something missing from GW2 pvp. I just could not find it fun. The lack of builds, the broken and buggy traits. The meta that is just not fun. Sitting on a node for 15 min while my team fights gets old very fast.

It also never felt like it took much skill to play. Perhaps that’s because there was not an MMR system but really who won a fight had more to do with who had the right build and who didn’t. Skill could not over come builds that just didn’t work. In the end my team would just roll most groups, which is not fun.

While wow was never balanced, it was at least fun. Using CC’s to control or at least to get away was fun (not that it was always fun, kitten you stealth). Abilities felt like they did damage, conditions were fun and not just spammed by everyone. Much more so than GW2 the fights felt like it came down to skill if you won or not (when some spec were close to balanced).

The problem is that GW2 tried to RUN when it could not even WALK yet. Going for the esport before you even had a fun pvp was a bad idea.

Having one shot wonders in hot join is no different than the OP Spec that would pop up in wow. It takes fun away from the players. And just because it sucks in tpvp does not mean that its bad for the game.

Remove hot join and make a solo que, and change the scoring system so that the winner gets way more glory then the losing team. This is the only way to make players try to win vs just farming kills and glory.

DDog.4350:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Ezrael.6859:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

If done right this is just not true. Dota 2/LoL has a much steeper learning curve, are much harder games and have far more complex battle systems, but new players are expected to know exactly what to do from the very beginning. Those games are doing just fine. The fact is that Hot Join does not in fact teach a player how to play Tpvp, it has nothing to do with tpvp. Having new players play a different game than what the main focus is, is a bad idea. When you play LoL do you play something different than the pro’s? How about Dota? The answer is no.

You can’t compare GW2 to LoL, they are completely different games.

They have very different game play mechanics, and GW2 is much more complicated from the start with all of the possible options for your character build, the huge amount of weapon skills.

LoL you pick a character with 4 skills and 2 utilities that you unlock during play, that’s a very different system to jumping into GW2 with several weapons, each containing 5 skills, 3 heals, 16 utility skills and 3 elite’s. + Secondary mechanics on all professions.

In LoL you can also play a 5v5 as players vs computers, which is total easymode, something that doesn’t exist in GW2 sPvP and serves as LoL’s equivalent of hot join (an easy place for players to learn the maps and how to play them).

Now perhaps current hot join isn’t functioning as it should to prepare people for actual tournaments, but completely doing away with hot join is not a solution.

You will cause far too many problems for the new player experience.
+ You forget yourselves and your attitudes as PvPers, I’ve seen you in pug quick tournaments insulting the guy that joined a tournament on his first day in PvP and didn’t know what to do. You told him to leave and go to hot join !

Your description of skills in LoL shows you have never played the game. Each Player starts with 4 (or more) skills that are Champ specific, then the player get to pick two others before the match starts. You do not unlock them during play. You also get more items that you have to activate while you play.

The sad thing is that those 4+ skills makes for much more complicated plays than the 16+ in GW2. On that note Dota 2 is even more complex.

Sorry but what possible options for char builds? GW2 has very very few builds that work. There is no complexity at all. You also seem to forget that LoL has masters, rune pages, nvm item builds in the game it self. Then you have to take into account that the combat and the match it self is far more complex.

You don’t learn how to play the game in hot join. At least playing bots in LoL you are playing the same game as everyone else.

I have been playing LoL since the day it was released, and i think it is safe to say u are wrong in every aspect.

1. LoL has 1 playable map (Summoners rift) 3v3 and dominion maps are never played.
2. Yes, champions have 4 skills. Yes, they get skills while playing the game (Flash = lvl 12) Im sure this is what he ment.
3. No, the situation are not getting more complex with 4 skills ( i laughed extremely hard ). Lets take veigar for a moment, E ->W -> Q -> R enemy dead, no need to move. U cant dodge key skills by moving (except for skillshots).
4. lets say u get 2 kills in laning phase. what happens now is that u will have more money then the opponent and from this point it will get even easier to faceroll.

There is a lot more we can talk about, but im tired of people bringing up LoL on GW2 forums. As Ezrael mentioned this are 2 completely different games. And i hope that GW2 will never become more like LoL. Imo GW2 is unique, and harder to play then most other MMO’s. The fact that it is harder to gain kills actually makes it a better game.

Thats what i wanted to say

If you played for that long how did you get it wrong?

The player unlocks flash when they hit 12 not the champ. You can assume all players are level 30 as it take no time at all to get there.

LoL does not need another map. and no one is talking about another map. The fact that LoL is more complex on a single map then GW2 on all its maps is just sad.

No one said “situations are getting more complex with 4 skills”. I said that the situations in LoL are more complex and it has only 4 skills. If you want to just go off of skills than WoW is way more complex then GW2.

Who said its harder to get kills in GW2? Its much easier. But then again you have shown you don’t really play LoL or you could not get something so basic wrong like the summer skills.

Lianon.3479:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

If done right this is just not true. Dota 2/LoL has a much steeper learning curve, are much harder games and have far more complex battle systems, but new players are expected to know exactly what to do from the very beginning. Those games are doing just fine. The fact is that Hot Join does not in fact teach a player how to play Tpvp, it has nothing to do with tpvp. Having new players play a different game than what the main focus is, is a bad idea. When you play LoL do you play something different than the pro’s? How about Dota? The answer is no.

AHAHHAHAHAHAHA, not my intention to troll, but REALLY. STEEPER?
I’ve been a dota player for around 7 years now, and this has got to be a joke.
Dota is hard on the newbies, but this game is LUDICROUS.
EVERY aspect of the pvp character is customizable, and even after playing for 6 months, I have NO IDEA what a meta means, neither does 80% of the community. I mean, we used to bash on trap rangers for being a HORRIBLE spec not more than 4 months ago, look where they are now.
Not to mention dota/lol are mouse left-click-movement games, with 2d overview. If you watch close enough, you can see what’s going on.
Also, I haven’t played LoL for a long time, but this game is INSANELY faster than ANYTHING CAN BECOME on that game. Dota comes closer, and sometimes it can push your reflexes a little bit more.

I’m sorry for all the emphasis on the argument, but I love this game too much to let it be underrated as a simple mmo kind of pvp.

I actually agree with most of what @OP has proposed, I just want to remember that ArenaNet’s business model is CERTAINLY an obstacle in making this game e-sport, as many other people have already mentioned.
It’s not impossible, though. This is the best pvp game I’ve played in a long, long while, maybe even comparable to my deepest loved game, a 1999 franchise I’m not sure I can mention here. And I’ve played that game for almost thirteen years now.

Fast combat =/= complex. If that is what your trying to say then FPS are the most complex games that you can play.

Sorry but you can die in GW2 and its not as punishing as dying in Dota 2, not by a long shot. Also build complexity? You can just copy the same build that is being used by all others. In dota 2 you have to change your build depending on how the match is going. You have to adapted to the match your playing.

Who is talking about the Meta? What does that have to do with anything. Setting up your skills before the match does not roll over into complex combat. That is part of the problem.

Ezrael.6859:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

If done right this is just not true. Dota 2/LoL has a much steeper learning curve, are much harder games and have far more complex battle systems, but new players are expected to know exactly what to do from the very beginning. Those games are doing just fine. The fact is that Hot Join does not in fact teach a player how to play Tpvp, it has nothing to do with tpvp. Having new players play a different game than what the main focus is, is a bad idea. When you play LoL do you play something different than the pro’s? How about Dota? The answer is no.

You can’t compare GW2 to LoL, they are completely different games.

They have very different game play mechanics, and GW2 is much more complicated from the start with all of the possible options for your character build, the huge amount of weapon skills.

LoL you pick a character with 4 skills and 2 utilities that you unlock during play, that’s a very different system to jumping into GW2 with several weapons, each containing 5 skills, 3 heals, 16 utility skills and 3 elite’s. + Secondary mechanics on all professions.

In LoL you can also play a 5v5 as players vs computers, which is total easymode, something that doesn’t exist in GW2 sPvP and serves as LoL’s equivalent of hot join (an easy place for players to learn the maps and how to play them).

Now perhaps current hot join isn’t functioning as it should to prepare people for actual tournaments, but completely doing away with hot join is not a solution.

You will cause far too many problems for the new player experience.
+ You forget yourselves and your attitudes as PvPers, I’ve seen you in pug quick tournaments insulting the guy that joined a tournament on his first day in PvP and didn’t know what to do. You told him to leave and go to hot join !

Your description of skills in LoL shows you have never played the game. Each Player starts with 4 (or more) skills that are Champ specific, then the player get to pick two others before the match starts. You do not unlock them during play. You also get more items that you have to activate while you play.

The sad thing is that those 4+ skills makes for much more complicated plays than the 16+ in GW2. On that note Dota 2 is even more complex.

Sorry but what possible options for char builds? GW2 has very very few builds that work. There is no complexity at all. You also seem to forget that LoL has masters, rune pages, nvm item builds in the game it self. Then you have to take into account that the combat and the match it self is far more complex.

You don’t learn how to play the game in hot join. At least playing bots in LoL you are playing the same game as everyone else.

Ezrael.6859:

If you remove hot join you will destroy the new player experience.

You won’t retain any new blood from players that try to test out sPvP if they are sent straight into a tournament with a build they have never tried, on a map they have never played where they don’t know what to do and where they will be expected to know what to do by their team mates and ultimately cursed at and ridiculed because they are a noob
(we know that will happen because that’s what many PvPers act like to new players).

Remove hot join and people will head to WvW instead, you won’t continue to get new players so the sPvP community won’t be able to grow, only shrink.

This isn’t 2005, players have different expectations now, and most of GW2s player base didn’t buy the game just for PvP, very much unlike GW1.

The hot join format needs to be reduced down, streamlined for new players to give them a better experience, and place them on restricted servers with ranks 1-9 only.

When players get to a certain rank, around 10-15 they should be encouraged to try Solo Queuing for a Tournament by the UI.

Ideally before this they can speak to an NPC that will explain a tournament and basic current strategies, things like bunkers that hold points, roamers etc to them, a short video would do wonders here – like the short videos in Aion that explained the concepts of PvP there.

If done right this is just not true. Dota 2/LoL has a much steeper learning curve, are much harder games and have far more complex battle systems, but new players are expected to know exactly what to do from the very beginning. Those games are doing just fine. The fact is that Hot Join does not in fact teach a player how to play Tpvp, it has nothing to do with tpvp. Having new players play a different game than what the main focus is, is a bad idea. When you play LoL do you play something different than the pro’s? How about Dota? The answer is no.

Jacobin.8509:

It seems to me the best way to get solos to play together is to make them face pre-mades and get slaughtered for while until the solo people have such a low rating that they are more likely to face each other.

or they just stop playing. Oh wait that is what has happened.

Tyler Bearce.3427:

There is no matchmaking in Hot Join (PvP Browser) matches. Matchmaking only exists in tournament matches, and it is based on your rating (a hidden value), not your Rank.

The funny part is that when the game was in beta Anet said that Hot Join would have MM.

MarcusKilgannon.5048:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

MarcusKilgannon.5048:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

MarcusKilgannon.5048:

gab.7645:

Anyone tried Forge?

Forge is great but doesn’t feel like an MMO what so ever. It’s strictly PvP with unlockables as you progress. The pvp and combat is great, I really enjoy it. But it’s not an MMO.

The point was how the combat feels. After all GW2’s pvp is nothing like an MMO either. And as Anet has shown GW2’s pvp is not an MMO.

How the hell do you know? The OP never specified any of that so I was letting him know my thoughts.

Because it is clear its not an MMO. It is not sold as an MMO, no one has ever said its an MMO. It has nothing but pvp that is even like an MMO. In fact the game has nothing but pvp.

All the OP asked was “has anyone tried Forge” so I said what I know. He might not know it’s not a MMO since we are currently in a MMO forum so people could make the assumption. I don’t know this person’s experience looking at the game so why don’t you just shut the hell up.

Hit a nerve? And this is a pvp section of an MMO. An MMO were the pvp has nothing to do with the fact that its an MMO. You could pull the pvp out of the game and sell it as just pvp (no one would buy it at its current state). Since the PVP has no MMO elements in it, much like Forge. A person using their brain would assume that he is asking about its combat. So how about you use your brain and stop just attacking other posters.

MarcusKilgannon.5048:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

MarcusKilgannon.5048:

gab.7645:

Anyone tried Forge?

Forge is great but doesn’t feel like an MMO what so ever. It’s strictly PvP with unlockables as you progress. The pvp and combat is great, I really enjoy it. But it’s not an MMO.

The point was how the combat feels. After all GW2’s pvp is nothing like an MMO either. And as Anet has shown GW2’s pvp is not an MMO.

How the hell do you know? The OP never specified any of that so I was letting him know my thoughts.

Because it is clear its not an MMO. It is not sold as an MMO, no one has ever said its an MMO. It has nothing but pvp that is even like an MMO. In fact the game has nothing but pvp.

MarcusKilgannon.5048:

gab.7645:

Anyone tried Forge?

Forge is great but doesn’t feel like an MMO what so ever. It’s strictly PvP with unlockables as you progress. The pvp and combat is great, I really enjoy it. But it’s not an MMO.

The point was how the combat feels. After all GW2’s pvp is nothing like an MMO either. And as Anet has shown GW2’s pvp is not an MMO.

Laserbolt.6731:

Absolutism.9128:

Well…. I guess its back to League of Legends.

Bah. League of Legends doesn’t feel anything like this game, even if it is well done for what it is.. It seems more like SC2.

Try SMITE. It has a much more MMO feel.

Reikou.7068:

MarcusKilgannon.5048:

Back when there were people playing GW2 pvp we had threads just like that. You don’t see them anymore because there are just not that many people playing anymore.

I do remember threads like that, but I’ve never once seen a thread here on guild wars hit the 100 page mark.

I’d venture to say it was mostly because ANet staff repeatedly locked and deleted any threads that had the potential to go that high.

Yep or they would merge them together and give it a new name so no one new what it was.

MarcusKilgannon.5048:

I’d like to chime in here. I do agree to some extent on the transparency. There are some areas in the game I’d like to see Arenanet discuss and talk about more but they are doing a much! better job than many other developers.

However, I do follow some games where the developers are much more on top of community involvement than this, but those games are not MMO’s either. They focus on one thing, PvP as an example, so it would be easier to maintain a game looking at one aspect of gameplay and one aspect only. Here we have a game that involves an enormous world, World vs World to maintain, Dungeons, PvP etc. It’s essentially everything into one, much harder to manage.

But if you really want to see what transparency and poor community involvement is, just go look at the HaloWaypoint forums (Halo 4 & matchmaking section). There are 3 mega threads: one with 230 pages of replies with one pathetic response, another with 71 pages -same response and one with over 100 pages and not a single response at all.

I’ve never even seen a page reach that amount here, but imagine if it did and Anet still didn’t response, there would be outrage. And that is the entire halo forums at this point.

And please, do not edit my mention of halo forums, it’s on topic and I’m only proving that Arenanet is much better than most developers now a days.

Back when there were people playing GW2 pvp we had threads just like that. You don’t see them anymore because there are just not that many people playing anymore.

Khezekiah Bellamy.5016:

nope, this man did it for like 30 solid seconds

It has been in the game since the first BWE.

Vitu.3580:

Calae.1738:

Guild Wars 2 has the worst combat depth of any MMO I have ever played. World of Warcraft had much greater depth than this during its 2nd and 3rd expansions.

In Guild Wars 2 there are no abilities on my toolbars that I can synergize to perform complex high damage combos. There are no control cooldowns that I can juggle in order to tackle extremely difficult encounters.

In short, the depth of the combat system is so shallow, basic and simple that bad players can beat good players. There’s no skill cap. There’s no steep learning curve.

As a result, there will be no athletes that the masses watch to learn. If you have no athletes, you have no spectators, if you have no spectators, you have no sport.

This game is so dumbed down that the best players are bored to tears.

I don’t see how you can say that when the largest ESport ever to exist gives there players 4 skills and they use simple mouse clicks to move and attack their enemies.

because LoL it self has a ton of depth in it, because of the map and the different phases in the game. Also its about setting up combos with each other. Or take a look at Dota and its very very long cd abilities, use the wrong one at the wrong time and you lose. GW2 does not have that, the game mode is simple and boring, its combat is just as bad. I do not agree that there is not a learning curve but GW2 has no were near the depth of pvp that LoL/Dota have.

Evan Lesh.3295:

There are a lot of really cool things we could do with the combat log that would benefit the entire game. This could include making sure all combat events show up, color coding, and even skill links. This polish could be rolled into the death breakdown as well.

I like how you said “could do”, and not that you “will do”. In other words, nothing will be done and it will not be added.

Antipode.2518:

Sylosi.6503:

Sorry, but your post makes no sense, if I put someone in front of SC2 who has never played they will be just as clueless about the decisions as they would for GW2, they don’t know why a player uses one type of unit against a certain type of unit of his opponent, they would need knowledge of the game, the decisions behind the actions of players in SC2 (or LoL) are no more visible to players than they are in GW2.

Nope. SC2 is far easier to understand at a basic level. A large part of that has to do with the fixed overhead camera angle. Another is that people can get a rough idea of how powerful a unit or spell is based on the size/graphic. It’s obvious that Zerglings are weaker per unit than the Ultralisk. Lastly, there’s more phases in a SC2 game that allow the commentators time to explain what will happen or what has happened.

There is also no game effecting stats or build outside the match. In other words what you see is everything that will affect the match. This is just not true in GW2. Even LoL which does in fact have talent tree’s and gems(stat boosters) that affect damage and such, the commentators don’t care, or really even talk about them. Why? because they are a set item, they are always there, when you build for a role you always have the same talents and the same stat boosters, so in the end it has no real affect on the match.

Players builds and the meta game outside of a match has way to much of an effect on the match, this creates a distancing effect on the people watching the match.

Baldric.6781:

It’s amazing how people can fool themselves, the game is great! we just don’t have enough players. Sure, sure.
It reminds me of that dude who tries to sell the house for 200.000 but can’t, so instead of accepting reality itself, he tries to reason why he cant do it, it must be the economy, you know, the bubble, the employment, etc etc. Sure, sure, just wait 1 year and everything will be fine.
But hey, i’m not ur mother, so if u want to keep playing and believing in the second coming of guild wars 2 pvp, our saviour, it’s ok. I mean, it could be way worse, you could be in a park getting high with LSD.

This is so sad but true. Everyone knows that no one is playing pvp, that the big problem is that everyone left pvp to do other things. That the percentage of pvp’ers out of the total GW2 population is much lower than that of any other game. This is clear, and yet GW2 pvp is the best of the best? How can GW2 pvp be any good if no one wants to play it? Before you say “oh well the combat is good its just all the other things”, if that was true people would be playing it. Look at wow, its balance is crap, it does not have ranking, it does not have a MM system, it does not have spectator mode (talking about battle grounds, and the years before arena). But its pvp is fun. At the end of the day the PVP has to be fun for all players, and this is were GW2 pvp fails.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Currently on the Eu there are about 50 full servers = about 700 players
Paids pop instantly most times = Must be 50 paid matches going on at a time = 500 players
Frees pop about every 5 -10 minutes = prob 5-10 going on at a time = 250 players

I reackon at any 1 time in the EU there are about 1500 players in game and many more in the mists.

Source: maths.

And there is 7k+ people (at any given time) just watching, others play Dota 2 on twitch. And from 100k -250k people playing at any given time. This from a game that is still in closed beta.

congalong.9620:

XiL.4318:

congalong.9620:

Fourth.1567:

Jjaja.7218:

Balance should always be done from the top to the bottom. Your experiences in PuGs or hot-joins should be disregarded because it does not always represent the meta or the full potential of any profession composition. Top players will always present the full potential of a profession (it’s what makes them top players) and balance should be based off that. I don’t care if a half-decent Mesmer is able to beat a similarly half-decent Necromancer every single time; it’s a totally different scenario at the top.

Sorry but this is just completely flawed. Balance must be done for both synonymously. If casual players don’t enjoy the game there cannot be a competitive scene. I probably wouldn’t be considered a casual player myself but I at least understand where the foundation of a game comes from. If I don’t see a true casual interest I know my time trying to be competitive will just be wasted.

The competitive scene needs to be dynamic. As in have proper progression of new players into competitive players so there is always new ideas being brought to the table. Who is really going to be interested in watching the same top 5 teams play in every tournament? The game has to minimize barriers for new players in order to grow interest and viewership as well as act as a resource to build new teams.

New players joining the game to get bursted by a thief or warrior or end up in an endless fight with a bunker is really going to jade their experience which just undermines the whole competitive scene. That’s even if the game is perfectly balanced at the competitive level.

Is there ONE popular game out there currently that has balanced play at both at the casual level and top level?

Yeah they are the games all the PvPers who left GW2 are back to playing.

Which are? Or are you planning to avoid the question as well by just giving me vague answers?

LoL, Dota 2. Both games are way more balanced for the casual player. yet still balanced for the “pro”. Oh and both of those games are fun at all levels of play.

Malk.9720:

Does anyone know if the pug teams formed for free tournaments are server based(as in your home(dark haven) server only provides teammates)? Yesterday for example I waited for enough members to form a pug team for free tournaments for 20 minutes with no luck. Generally there was 3-4 of us on the roster waiting for it to fill with no luck.

Just curious if this was a community wide issue due to SPvP population dropping, or was more localized to the server I was playing on.

Its cross server.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

So if having thin skin has nothing to do with it, after all dota 2 and LoL work just fine, whats wrong with GW2?

Perhaps because everyone always blames each other for losing, even if everyone in the game is absolutely terrible. Even if half the people in the game are terrible and half are pretty good. Even if 3 people on the team are on their 10th game and the other 2 are professionals in disguise.

It’s easy to come back to a game where you think the fault lies with the players.

You also missed the part where I said GW2 needs loads of work, but that’s to be expected.

At any rate, this thread has become a Pitchfork Brotherhood, so any potential for actual discussion is completely out the window. Not that any actual discussion happens on this sub-forum anyway. It’s mostly “I agree” or “you’re an idiot”.

Enjoy patting each other on the back.

Your right it is easy to go back to a game were you think the fault lies with the players, and that’s whats wrong with GW2. The fault does not lie with the players but with the foundation of the game. Thank you for agreeing.

stpetemermaid.5947:

My husband and I play GW2 together. In the other two MMOs we have played, part of our time was spent in PvP. But not in GW2. I have play sPvP alone.

We CANNOT join a free game together. There is no grouping mechanism. We are always in a party, but most of the time we either get separated on opposite teams, or even in different maps. So now he just won’t do sPvP at all. And although I still join once or twice a week, it’s not as much fun.

I would appreciate a little longer break between map rotation. And if I get Capricorn, I’ll just return to the Mists most of the time; I don’t care for that map.

It is a bit boring that all the maps have the same concept. I am used to different kinds of maps. I may not like all the different kinds, but I usually like 4 out of 5 of them. But I can’t choose my map anyway in GW2. I find that strange.

I stated in the Beta Weekend feedback that the Mystic Forge way of getting different armor skins was not a good idea. I can’t use my points to get the skins I want. I have to look mismatched until I luck into two things that look good together, if I get anything at all. Why can’t I just have the look of my normal armor, which I will NEVER get from the Mystic Forge, because some of it is cultural and/or from an Order. Why can’t I be an individual?

I was very excited about GW2 leveling everyone to 80, and not having to do a gear grind for stats! However, the way everything else works in sPvP is causing it to a very small part of my GW2, instead of an integrated part of my normal play. I find that sad. I miss those nights when we would ask each other ‘what do you want to do tonight?’ —- PvP! Doesn’t happen at all in GW2.

And yeah, I tried joining ticket tournament once. Didn’t work out at all. Won’t do that again. lol

Good post. Hope someone pays attention. I wished ANET luck with the PvP community during Beta. I still do. I would like it to be viable, and I want to be a part of it.

My wife and I play MMO’s together all the time as well. In fact it was it was wow that made my wife love pvp, to the point that she would play it more than pve. We started playing GW2 and in no time we were back to playing other games, GW2 pvp is just not fun. I ended up playing for some time solo, I even got into some good pvp guilds, we even did very well wining most of our games, but its not fun stomping pugs and its not fun getting crushed.

If you work on it you can play on the same map and on the same side, its really not that hard, you just have to be willing to wait it out.

We just installed Aion and hope that we will get some fun pvp out of that game.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Primo.4385:

Hi I’m new to GW2 and I’m looking forward to competitive PVP.

hot joins
gets zerged
learns nothing

OK I’ve been playing for awhile and I think I’m ready for tournaments

joins free tourney
has no idea what is going on, has never played 5v5, is basically useless
gets crushed by premades

Looks like I need a dedicated team to play this game competitively

tries to find a team
only like 4 people in mists and 2 are AFK

Welp, that wasn’t fun sorry guys

logs ofkittenuninstalls

This exaggeration could be used for basically every game forever. Imagine your first 5 hot-join games of DotA, or Starcraft II. Tell me what you learn when you get 4-gated, 6-pooled, or team-stomped by a DotA pre-made.

If you’re going to play a PvP game, you need to accept losing and analyze the situation in order to get better. In fact, when you get stomped, if you’re paying attention, you can learn more quickly what works best and start moving towards playing with/against it.

I get that it’s discouraging, but why do PvPers have such thin skins these days?

Sorry but you have no idea what your talking about. When a new player plays Dota or LoL they play the same game the Pro’s do. For example what if new players played Dota but with 8 players per side instead of 5, Do you really think they are learning the same game? Its even worse in GW2. The fact is players in LoL do in fact play the same game, they also get matched to other pugs, not pre-made’s. They also get matched to other players with the same skill. They also don’t have to form the group them selves. Pugging in Dota 2 and LoL works very well.

What he outlined is exactly what happens. GW2 makes it very very hard for new players to come into this game. Go into the mists some time and try to form a team. Just try it.

I would also like to point out that lots of players play both dota 2 and LoL, two games have steep learning curves, games that are very rough on new players, games that when a new player starts to play they will lose over and over again. Yet people keep playing them, they get more and more players. So if having thin skin has nothing to do with it, after all dota 2 and LoL work just fine, whats wrong with GW2?

Esthetx.6412:

I think that not all PvP gear should be equal in stats. People need the drive to keep playing and working towards acquiring that next better gear piece. They will be a lot more happy when that new gear part drops from that chest they got from ranking up, if it actually makes a difference in their effectiveness in PvP. Having everything “balanced” like it is now, is nice in a way, but doesn’t give people the motivation to keep playing.

Disagree. People don’t need to have a drive to keep playing. Look at dota 2, LoL, Every FPS ever made. People have no problem playing a game for no gain. The reason they play is because its fun. Right now spvp is crap and not fun, tpvp is not fun. People are leaving because the game is not fun, not because they don’t have gains.

Esthetx.6412:

I think it would be nice to have smaller-scale arena ladders like 3v3 and 5v5 etc. Very nice-looking gear rewards would be available along the way at certain levels of rating acquired, like 2000 rating, for example, might give you access to being able to craft a higher level of gear.

I also feel that people don’t feel the need or desire to work towards PvP rewards, since they do not feel any real changes from acquiring the gear, since it is only aesthetic. People can already acquire decent looking gear once they reach Deer rank, from free tournament tokens, and lose the motivation to grind repetitively in the same game mode and same 4 maps to get gear that might look slightly better.

It is very nice to be able to feel the increase in strength or power, when you acquire a new piece of gear, or weapon, thus giving the motivation to acquire it. Some examples of this are working towards unlocking new, better guns and attachments in shooters to make a huge difference in combat, or playing a lot of arena / battlegrounds to unlock a strong sword that will increase your damage output substantially. This is what causes the drive to keep playing through PvP, and grinding battlegrounds or rating — looking forward to acquiring gear that will make a difference. I know that this is against many people’s ideals of having a “balanced” and scaled system, but for me, it is what makes the game fun. The “balance” that they have now can be acquired once you reach the cap on the best gear currently available.

I disagree. I play dota 2 (500+ hours in dota and over 900 hours in LoL) and many other pvp games with out getting better gear, or better items. or anything at all. If its fun people have no problem playing the same game over and over again for no gain. The problem is that GW2 pvp is just not fun. Its not fun on the spvp side. its not fun on the tpvp side. If spvp was at least fun people would stick around and suffer through the tpvp. But since spvp is not fun, it does not teach you anything about how to play a 5v5 map. And the fact that tpvp is so static of a game mechanic it just not fun to play, or to watch for that matter.

Sylosi.6503:

Aga.8641:

Seras.5702:

Pretty sure Anet spent a lot of time on WvW, which is a type of PvP play. To say that PvP is an after thought because your prefered style isn’t adequately represented is unfair. Game launched with 3 kinds of PvP play. And they’re working on more now.

WvW is primarily PvE, which is why it seems more polished then PvP.

No it isn’t, it is PvP, which is why it is in the PvP section of this forum, PvP does not mean player hitting player, it means player competing against player.

As for all the comments about them making their money from PvE, I thought the stated intent was to make tPvP an esport and make money from that (hence the one mode, LoL coped fine with one mode and people still play that far more than anything else), the problem is currently it seems a billion miles away from an esport and with only one mode and terrible PvP you get in hotjoin from sticking 16 people on a 10 man map, they can’t keep people playing just for fun either.

The difference is that LoL one mode has way way way more depth than GW2’s capture mode will ever have.

Primo.4385:

Hi I’m new to GW2 and I’m looking forward to competitive PVP.

hot joins
gets zerged
learns nothing

OK I’ve been playing for awhile and I think I’m ready for tournaments

joins free tourney
has no idea what is going on, has never played 5v5, is basically useless
gets crushed by premades

Looks like I need a dedicated team to play this game competitively

tries to find a team
only like 4 people in mists and 2 are AFK

Welp, that wasn’t fun sorry guys

logs ofkittenuninstalls

A very sad but true account of what happens.

Sirevanac.3178:

Nyarlathotep.9702:

The pvp content is abysmal and quite frankly unfinished (Maybe they rushed, maybe they ran out of money, maybe they really thought this was good. Not my problem) and anyone who says it’s good is either blind, a fanboy or just trolling (The Just “2 and a half months released! Give it more time” is pitiful and people who say this clearly have no idea how the industry release schedule works and how important the first 2 weeks after release are)

But what about releasing date schedule? You must release on a date, and you release what you have. Besides, i think the first 2 weeks went awesome.

On the other hand, i think i havent seen a MMORPG that started awesomely, even less to have a settled pvp stance in less than a year. This things TAKE time man, you want to believe it or not.

What happened to their line of releasing the game when its ready? Your even admitting that the pvp aspect of the game was not ready. So they released the game when it was not ready.

Nero.8623:

I’m a pvper— I don’t feel like I got ripped off by Anet. Then again I play the game and adapt to what it currently is as opposed to complaining about how I feel it should be.

If anyone actually believes that one patch will make them a lot better at the game (as this seems to be what a lot of people believe aka by changing the classes and fixing theirs they will finally be amazing) they couldn’t be further from the truth. There will always be something you want to have changed. There will always be something you don’t agree with.

Who is saying they will be a better player after a patch? Can the game be better? God we can hope so.

Zunhar.4079:

ANet is focusing on PvE because that is what makes them money. Not being mean or anything, but they are a company and they have bills and salaries to pay. sPvP does not make ANet any money at all (no sub fee), but people are willing to spend money in PvE at the cash shop.
Some new game modes and maps would do wonders for the PvP’s health, however.

They sold the game as having strong pvp. Many people payed for a game just for pvp. Sadly that did not happen. If anything PvP’ers got ripped off by A.Net.

Corebot.2701:

Aga.8641:

It is fairly clear that PvP in gw2 was kind of an afterthought, so we just got lumbered with the very boring and repetitive PvP we have now.

I feel that pvp is out of whack and there needs to be some new pvp match types, but to say that pvp is an afterthought is a bit silly.

GW2’s stated goal for longevity has been esport PVP.

Right their stated goal. But actions speak louder than words and what they have done shows that PvP was an afterthought.

I just wanted to point out that your data means nothing. Rank is not tied to the Prof. So you could rank up playing nothing but one Prof and than switch to another. You can not tie Ranks and Prof together. Since the fastest way of ranking up is farming spvp and some Prof are better at farming than others it makes your data meaningless.

Yep another fail by A.Net. Said they would have paid on the 22 and nope. Not only that but no real fixes for the Necro.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Last I checked, DotA 2 doesn’t have rankings, just hidden brackets so you can kind of match up against people who are at a similar skill level. Pubs also don’t matter.

All of the competitive/e-sports events in DotA 2 take place in private matches. Then, the match-making is up to a community that wants to sponsor tournaments held on their private server.

So, really, a matchmaking/ranking/ladder system is often just something for casuals or non-competitive players to dink around in. Actual e-sports take place in private arenas organized by third parties.

Kind of makekittenlad private servers are coming up right after the paid tournaments. In the interim, paid tournies will be a better opportunity for more serious PvPers to play against more serious PvPers more often. Then, custom arenas will allow serious teams to scrim one another privately, and third parties will be able to start looking into organizing tournaments on their servers. Then, when spectator mode arrives, the foundation will be in place for actual e-sports to happen.

That’s how I see it anyway, and it makes all the sense in the world to me.

Last I checked Dota 2 is in beta. Are you saying GW2 is still in beta? Also hidden brackets is still better than nothing at all.

Fantom.9217:

How about a thread that isn’t balance whine for a change? Let’s talk glory.

What do you guys spend your glory on? Chests? Gear components for the forge?

If chests, do you always buy gold? Or do you buy a lower type.

Do you spend it at all? Are you saving it for higher ranks?

I don’t spend it, there is no reason to. As soon as you hit 10,20,30,… You spend a bunch get the gear you want in that range with in the first 30min, of hitting that rank, then you just sit and horde it for another 10 ranks. And that’s even if you like what is in that rank range.

ShRNA.4376:

Daays.4317:

There are more factors to consider than just time in game development.

You don’t know the quality of game designers. Their engineers. Their goals. How well management does in the company.

So let’s focus on what we do know. We know that in any game, if given the tools, the community will develop the game into a competitive state. It’s how games like Counter-Strike and DotA grew to where they are today.

If given the tools.

Arean Net has yet to give the competitive PvP community the tools needed to turn their game into an e-Sport.

And that’s all you need to know.

You don’t have to give community the tools. GW1 didn’t give tools to the community and it had the best e-Sport among all MMOs.

By the best e-sport you mean no e-sport right? GW1 was never an e-sport. It failed at doing that. And no WoW is the closest an MMO has come to an e-sport.

Sky.9347:

Well I can see that your priorities are different in this post than theirs, but really…

You seem to think “balance” is the utmost pressing issue right now.
ANet seems to think giving more experienced/skilled players a place to play, thus separating them from newer or less skillful players is the utmost pressing issue right now.

Seems like two takes on the same problem.

You seem to think rank (leaderboards) are more important than custom arenas.
ANet seems to think custom arenas are more important than leaderboards.

They said they know leaderboards, spectating, streaming are important. They said “we are listening”. They said they would love to say more but they just can’t, yet.

So, outside of the fact that you disagree with their priority, how is your post that different? A lot of the stuff you put in your post has already been addressed by ANet, and the blog just focused on the immediate future.

You do understand that for “pro-teams” to even play in the Paid Tournies they have to either pay RM to do so or they have to play Free Tournies. Adding Paid Tournies will in no way separate the two groups.

You can’t have competitive pvp with out a ranking system. It just will not work. Do you really think the “pro-teams” are going to be happy crushing bad teams all the time in Paid Tournies? Do you think its going to be fun for the middle of the ground teams to play teams that are way better than them? How do you get better if you don’t play teams of equal level. Its like asking high school teams to play in the NFL, and then telling them they suck because they don’t get better. You don’t become a better player by getting crushed, you get better by playing vs equal skills players. It gives you time to see what your doing what the other players are doing and gives you a means of seeing improvement.

Sky.9347:

I guess I don’t really see how what you wrote and what they wrote were so different that it warranted ANOTHER thread on the subject.

EDIT: The only difference may be the balance paragraph, and even still I think they said the same thing but with a positive spin on it.

You really don’t see a difference? How could you not see a difference. What A.Net said was nothing but hot air, it had no substance at all. It was just a way for them to buy some time.

If only that was the blog post. And it took you what 5-10min? Not even that?

Instead what we get was information that we already knew about and didn’t care about.

We could have some real fun and see how long it takes to translate that into another langue. Still bet it takes less then a week.