Guild Wars 2

Ragnar Dragonfyre.1806:

Fantom.9217

None of those games launched with all of their current features yes. The problem? They have those features right now.

GW2 is severely lacking in features when compared to their current competition. That’s the bottom line. They need to fix ALL of their major missing features and they need to do it FAST. If nothing major has changed by the end of the month, then GW2 is probably toast.

Bolded part is the reason why the MMO genre is doomed. Players now have insane expectations that far exceed the reality of game development.

While that is true for a lot of things, and for a lot of the complaints. I don’t think they need to add maps, or game modes. Hell i don’t even care if they add Paid Tournies back in. What I do care about are the tons of bugs in the game, bugs that have been in the game for months. I have a problem with them saying they are going to have competitive PVP, when in fact it is no such thing. With out a ranking system or ladder-boards, there will never be competitive pvp.

If they just added a ranking system, most people would just be happy with free tounies.

Kiirin.3418:

@Kaim
So they’ve completely neglected the pvp community right? Alright I guess the recent patch that was focused mainly on pvp balances that made all the pve’rs cry didn’t count.
Yea they’re definitely ignoring the spvp community.

@AngryflyingSquirrel
I have seen those interviews and I don’t believe they put an exact date. No wonder you’re so clueless. At this point of time it is too early to tell. Try waiting at LEAST 2 months before you make baseless conclusions.

So so wrong. Ok you want a very easy example. Paid Tournaments. Not in the Game. lol “No exact date”. So in other words as long as they put it in before the end of time its ok? wow just wow.

Why should we wait? We were sold a Game that they said was ready. After all they have been saying for years that the game would be released when its ready. So A.Net thinks the game is ready, why else would they release it. If its ready, why should i have to wait? NVM Necro’s have been waiting for over 4 months for the Major bug fixes to the Prof. So again why should anyone wait?

If someone sold you a car but you find out the windows don’t work, they tell you oh well we didn’t add windows, we will add windows “when its ready”, you would be just fine right?

Kiirin.3418:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Kiirin.3418:

Kaim.7125:

Plz dont count LoL with 10players to MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE game.

Not everyone want play e-sport, and not every e-sport “things” are good for rest of players who dont play at “profesional level”.

And srslt… “go pandas in Wow”…. man you are such fail at arguments.

You are funny bro with the massive typos and the fact that you can’t even spell professional, which is very ironic in itself. Apparently English isn’t your first language so I will stop there.

It’s cool that you ignore my whole post and just read the end. Good Job!

You’re saying don’t compare it to League? Did you know most game modes were pulled from FPS, and RTS type games? So you’re basically pulling those modes out of context as if it was something that originated in the MMO genre? Basically from what I am understanding is since every other game has these modes that Guild Wars should have it too. MMO game development takes much more time than other genres, with collision and other graphics design for new modes and new maps.

So the blog wasn’t up to par with your expectations? I wasn’t completely happy about it, but I was content at least that they had the common decency to at least give us somewhat of an update.

You want a ranking system? The professions aren’t at a current state where they are bug free and tweaked. Quit your complaining and give it time. You’re not paying a monthly and you have already received your moneys worth.

The fact that you say they have spit at the spvp community just continues to show your ignorance and immaturity.

Please read the post rather than reading snippets.

@Angry Flying Squirrel
Sorry I was comparing it to the MMO genre where they have put a great deal of effort in the development without the monthly (No subscription, Monthly Subscription). Should have put it in detail for those who don’t understand the context.

I know what you were comparing it to. Does not change the fact that we payed money for this. You saying its F2P, is just not true. It is not a F2P game, we did not get to play for Free.

Its like if the Next Modern Warfare game was released but didn’t have half the features it said it would. This game is no different. It s a B2P game, so compare it to other B2P games. What other (good)B2P game tells you it will have features but than when you buy it, it does not? Oh and then they tell you its coming “some time” and “when its ready”. How is it that they can say “when its ready” than release the game in an unready state, then come back and say “when its ready” for when they are going to give us the features they told us would be in the game in the first place.

And can you tell me what features are specifically missing that they promised specifically? Maybe you can educate me because I cannot find anything that they promised on the main site about the product that I have not already recieved?

They have no information on the main site. No wonder your so clueless. Most information is from interviews and reddit, and others. Their Main site is a joke.

Kiirin.3418:

Kaim.7125:

Plz dont count LoL with 10players to MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE game.

Not everyone want play e-sport, and not every e-sport “things” are good for rest of players who dont play at “profesional level”.

And srslt… “go pandas in Wow”…. man you are such fail at arguments.

You are funny bro with the massive typos and the fact that you can’t even spell professional, which is very ironic in itself. Apparently English isn’t your first language so I will stop there.

It’s cool that you ignore my whole post and just read the end. Good Job!

You’re saying don’t compare it to League? Did you know most game modes were pulled from FPS, and RTS type games? So you’re basically pulling those modes out of context as if it was something that originated in the MMO genre? Basically from what I am understanding is since every other game has these modes that Guild Wars should have it too. MMO game development takes much more time than other genres, with collision and other graphics design for new modes and new maps.

So the blog wasn’t up to par with your expectations? I wasn’t completely happy about it, but I was content at least that they had the common decency to at least give us somewhat of an update.

You want a ranking system? The professions aren’t at a current state where they are bug free and tweaked. Quit your complaining and give it time. You’re not paying a monthly and you have already received your moneys worth.

The fact that you say they have spit at the spvp community just continues to show your ignorance and immaturity.

Please read the post rather than reading snippets.

@Angry Flying Squirrel
Sorry I was comparing it to the MMO genre where they have put a great deal of effort in the development without the monthly (No subscription, Monthly Subscription). Should have put it in detail for those who don’t understand the context.

I know what you were comparing it to. Does not change the fact that we payed money for this. You saying its F2P, is just not true. It is not a F2P game, we did not get to play for Free.

Its like if the Next Modern Warfare game was released but didn’t have half the features it said it would. This game is no different. It s a B2P game, so compare it to other B2P games. What other (good)B2P game tells you it will have features but than when you buy it, it does not? Oh and then they tell you its coming “some time” and “when its ready”. How is it that they can say “when its ready” than release the game in an unready state, then come back and say “when its ready” for when they are going to give us the features they told us would be in the game in the first place.

@Kiirin.3418

I am sorry but did you get to play GW2 for free? Man that’s great for you. I had to pay $60 to play. So wish I had known it was F2P.

They told us what was going to be in the game. Unlike you, most of us payed for the game. So when the game does not in fact have most of the features we were told it would have, well we kitten about it.

Xaximbo.2763:

I will write in depth as my first post might not be clear but will not post a wall of text either trying to clarify things i think don’t work.

Bunker builds are becoming excesively popular, you can’t kill alone a bunker nor they can’t kill you if this was a deathmatch would be just boring but you won’t take benefits from it so since this is not exactly funny people would neglect this playstyle.

There’s no effective counter as the 2 sources of damage you have on this game (Direct damage and condition damage) can be dealt with by them. Let’s consider them healers, in other games against healers you have tools like Drain Mana or % healing reduction so that if a player chooses to last indefinitely sooner or later he must stop doing it because he runs out of mana or has to flee because he is taking more damage than he can heal due to this % healing reduced stacked on him.

In Gw2 there’s no mana and there’s no such healing reduction but there is gear to increase endurance and gear to increase healing so?¿ We have a proper healer and there are no ways to counter him. In fact this game attracted me because it stated “no trinity, no healers, no tanks, just dps” surprisingly call it tank , call it healer or a mix of both you have something like this.

My suggestion is to remove the healing on Spvp.

All the mmos killed their pvp scene when people started to use the same setups, as i said rock,scissors,paper only 3 setups viable out of potentially 50, A wins B wins C and C wins A. Eventual D,F,G… setups lose to this 3 in a different degree. In games like WoW this became such a problem that instead of wasting time in a match they will be always behind they left the arena and waited for more suitable teams. On the other hand you had fights against mirror teams (Druid/warrior,Rogue/Priest,Pala/Lock) or between teams that were not a counter from each other that after more than an hour ended by throwing the dices. How sad, isn’t it? This is where gw2 is going to.

There’s no need to theorycraft about this builds i doubt every single bunker guardian or ele is using the same traits, although probably there is a coincidence in the 80% of them but clearly the way to achieve this is stacking as much thoughness, vitality and healing through traits,gear and runes. It’s very simple you don’t depend on a hard to execute combo to make you immune to damage and careful heal timing. There are no silences, there are no casting bars so best thing you can do with your heal is cast it as soon as you can. There is no crowd control, just a necro fear and some minor stuns/snares/roots that don’t count as that and that are dispelleable.

This builds can surely be found on a wiki or in this forums though.

I said necro but this last spot can be filled by every offensive class, necro in my opinion works best due to his heavy aoe damage , mesmer is good too. Keep in mind that necro has been buffed a lot since the 27th august, i find it competitive enough right now.

Edit seeing last post while i was writing this: Since khylo is the last map this kind of setups are worthy since you guarantee a chest.

LOL how where necro’s Buffed? You mean they had some bug fixes?

Minion of Vey.4398:

I wouldn’t want the trait stats to be changed at all honestly.

Crit dmg % is a niche stat and I don’t want to be pidgeonholed into it. If you pair it with prec then it is useless for condition builds. If you pair it with power you’re requiring someone to run a power build that also has plenty of precision (no power/vit/toughness setups).

Also condition duration is very useful for power necros and I wouldn’t want to lose that. I like dagger/focus and condition duration means longer dagger #3 immobilize, focus #5 chill, staff #3 chill, Shroud #2 chill. Such tools are very important to a necro since we lack in mobility, keeping the enemy mobility low is vital.

Only stats that i would like see switched are Vitality with Toughness. If your going to try and heal your self over and over again, heals scale way way better with Toughness than Vitality which they don’t scale with at all. Also since the death tree seems to be only for MM anyway, we already get toughness with the 15 point minor.

Knote.2904:

Lumines.3916:

Barbed Precision actually has a 66% chance to bleed on crit, it’s higher than most other “bleed on crit” traits, Engineers have 30%, so really at 50% crit chance, 1/3 hits you gain an extra bleed. What I will give you though is Barbed Precision is pretty kitten, the Engineer related trait applies a 3s bleed while Mesmer’s Sharper Image applies a 5 second bleed (possibly the best) ugh, what a surprise.

Also, Lingering Curses currently does not stack with Hemophilia (which is better as it affects more than just scepter). Not saying Lingering Curses is worse, but Withering Precision is far from the “bad” you’re trying to make it out to be.

Withering Precision gives you the ability to constantly apply weakness ontop of everything you do, easily giving you another condition to cover your bleeds with while reducing their damage output, far from useless.

Average joe Necromancer uses off-hand dagger to apply weakness, however that’s 10/25s, more if he has Enfeebling Shroud (only when they’re in range). Withering Precision affects ALL your crits making it a much more constant thing.

Will both Spite and Curses benefit if they swapped Precision and Condition duration around? Possibly, but the current arrangement is decent as well. If anything, it’s not the attribute bonuses of the traits one should be upset about, it’s the lack of attractive trait choices within each line. That is hindering the class more than anything.

They do stack btw, not sure where you get your information. And weakness isn’t that great of a condition it needs to be normalized.

Weakness is horrible in a game were most builds run with 50-60% crit (tpvp).

I have always had that problem.

So a buff to power spec and a nerf to condition spec. ok

Sprawl.3891:

How this happens with thousands of solo queuers I have no clue, gg.

Because there not thousands of solo queuers anymore.

The real answer is that it has not thing to do with how many people que. Your group formed up meaning you started with 5. And the game started with 5v5. But someone in the group left. What needs to be added is an abandoned tag much like in LoL or Dota 2. Something that if you have too many of, keeps you from playing for a short amount of time. There need to be a system that punishes people for abandoning a game.

No its not like adrenaline. Adrenaline lets warriors do more damage. So as a fight goes on they get to hit harder. LF on the other hand is what keeps a Necro alive. The fact that we start every tpvp map with little to no defense abilities is a very major flaw in Necro design.

Irascible.8210:

Xhaiden.3891:

Short answer: Class selection

;p

I choose Thief because of the OP stealth and backstab with shortbow! Wait, no. I choose thief because pistol whip is OP!

Wait, no. I choose Warrior because of OP knockdowns, condi removal, heals, team buffs, and stability! Wait, no. I choose Warrior because of OP 100b and survivability!

Wait,no. I choose elementalist because of massive burst and offensive buffs! Wait, no. I choose elementalist for unparalleled treb downing ability. Wait, no. I choose elementalist because of the incredible kiting and survivability! Wait, no. I choose elementalist because of the massive AoEs and team support!

Wait, no. I choose Necromancer because of their unparalleled capacity for spreading dots! Wait, no. I choose Necromancer for their amazing survivability and AoE crowd control on short CDs. Wait, no. I choose Necromancer for their incredible shortrange burst!

Wait, no. I choose Guardian because of their incredible point defense coupled with point denial from knockdowns! Wait, no. I choose Guardian because of their constant retaliation coupled with AoE burst and CC! Wait, no. I choose Guardian because they can consistently apply boons to the team!

Wait, no. I choose Mesmer because of how irritating their clones are! Wait, no. I choose Mesmer because of their mobility! Wait, no. I choose Mesmer because of their burst! Wait, no. I choose Mesmer because of their condition clearing! Wait, no. I choose Mesmer because of their point defense!

Wait, no. I choose Ranger because of their unparalleled sustained ranged dps! Wait, no. I choose Ranger because of their great bunkering and survivability! Wait, no. I choose Ranger because of their great solo and kiting capabilities! Wait, no. I choose ranger because of their burst!

Wait, no. I choose Engineer because of their incredible point defense coupled with point denial knockbacks! Wait, no. I choose Engineer because of their condition removal! Wait, no. I choose Engineer because of their mobility capabilities as roamer! Wait, no. I choose Engineer because of their incredible burst! Wait, no. I choose Engineer because of their incredible condition damage! Wait, no. I choose Engineer because of their AoE crowd controls!

Said by someone that does not in fact play all Prof, as most of what you just said made no since.

Quindim.3980:

A bad player loses and quickly starts to call for nerfs class X, class Y… skill Z is OP.

A good player will learn to counter things and knows that there are lots of profession builds and none is Godmode.

While this is true some times. But not all the time.

And what if there is no counter? Many things in this game are broken, so a given Prof does not in fact have a means of countering them. The only way to counter it is to roll a different Prof.

Schwahrheit.4203:

Keeping people hostage is a legit strategy.

They can’t keep you hostage. All a person has to do is not hit the heal button. Something many of the people in this thread seem to forget about.

If a bad player wants to keep hitting the Heal button, fine let them and than just keep knocking them down. I have done it many times. Good players will just let them selves die. There is almost never a good reason to self heal in a downstate in pvp. Exceptions to this are if you were able to get away or what not.

What needs to change is the fact that rezing happens at every 20 sec of the game clock. It should be more like LoL or Dota 2, were your rez timer starts when your dead (i don’t mean that the rez timer should increase as time goes on, that would just suck).

BlueprintLFE.2358:

I usually stack knights gear so I get some toughness, I am a big fan of toughness, I have done some pretty decent SPVP games against good players and obviously against bad players, I honestly can’t say I have had a problem really with any progression yet. Not to say I won’t, but I haven’t yet. Only if I get caught with moa but that just sucks in general

You first post implied you didn’t put points into toughness (people would take this as gear as well). Now your saying you stack toughness. Try some tpvp before coming on here and saying it works great. Spvp means nothing.

HiSaZuL.2843:

Our combos don’t cause life leech…
We have 1 spectral aoe… aka wall which is horrible.
4 darkness on wells. 1 light on well. and ummm 2 poison 1 for chillbains mark and 1 for terrible utility skill.
We have 1 underwater whirl finisher. bone minion/flesh wyrm blast finisher and staffs 3 blast finisher. and staffs 1 as projectile finisher.
Underwater finisher is umm… well you know… not very useful past 1 spvp map lol.
Minion blast finishers… good luck trying to manage that 1.
Mark blast finisher is pretty much the only 1 realiable finisher you have and you need an enemy to use it. So yeah…
Anyway darkness = blind, light = cleanse, poison = aoe weakness. ironically staffs 2 followed by 3 is pretty darn good for pvp. So i guess i could live with poison being terrible.
Back to topic… vampiric skills have horrible scaling. Like someone already said unless you have patience of a statue and tolerance of an angel… don’t bother.

And you never get hit by anything. The health it returns is nothing compared to the damage you have incoming.

merch.1026:

edited with further reseaach from 15% to 57% LF gain out of combat
im going to patent this the merch technique

So in other words, Necro’s have to use their utilities before combat starts in order to get any form of defense. Oh ya we are just fine.

Side note. Good work. People did know that you can do this. Its just a matter of if its worth putting utilities on CD and being that much more worthless for team fight.

Arc.9374:

What the heck is the point of 10 30 30 without healing?

2% damage per boon at 25 water. In a D/D build you’re pretty much rolling 5 boons minimum in combat (Fury/Swiftness/Regen/Vigor/Might) with options for 2 more (Stability/Protection).

There’s 10% more damage.

Having near permanent uptime on Fury alone is 20% more crit chance.

Might runs at minimum 3 stacks, frequently at 6-7, occasionally higher. 3 stacks from first attunement swap using Sigil or Battle, a further 3stacks from 2nd attunement swap 9s later, 1 stack if you switch into Fire, any excess from blast finishing into Fire Fields. Either way, 10 seconds into the fight you’re not going to drop below 6 stacks unless you get boon stripped.

If you’re using Sigil of Minor Accuracy that’s another 14% crit chance at max stacks.

In any case, the +healing from Water is a secondary effect. The primary focus is the synergy the tree provides with D/D Aura Builds, or the condition removal and cantrip synergy for non-Aura builds.

Compared to a more burst-oriented build, I’m sure the damage isn’t much to write home about if you’re stacking up to 20k HP and 2.2k Toughness, but you’re not going to be complete dead weight.

I call bull. On your 20k HP and 2.2 Toughness. on an Ele. Post a pic of this build. On a Necro you can hit 2.2 Toughness if you run Shaman, and back it up with traits and runes on top of that, and your health will be about 20k hp. But a Necro already starts with about that much health. There is no way your getting that on a Ele.

Animosity.5231:

Sharp already talked about the Mists being server separated. If they combine them, they will still need a bunch of overflows, and the problem will still be there. It makes sense.

In that case, how about the GW1 district system?

Ferg’s Crossing isn’t horrible in its activity.

How would that not fix the problem. The problem is that there are very few people in any give mist. By adding them all together they would at least be full. Sure if your stuck in the very last overflow with no one it would suck, but it sucks now. At least with an overflow system you would have a chance to be with a bunch of other players, and even if your stuck on the last overflow server you still have a chance of moving up into a more populated one.

EvilExE.3460:

This is one of the big issues in GW2 i think, they decided to make lobbys indvidual to each server, which this allows for smaller communities, it does not benifit/allow for a larger pvp community to generate core centralisation.

The implementation of channels in GW1 was a much better system, where players could travel between channels to find players for thier teams, whats left now for dead/time pvp zones is only entering Tpvp randoms, where in places such as europe this system may team you with people that you may not even be able to communicate with, due to language barriers.

It is a real problem. The server i am on next to no one is in the mists at any given time. Its impossible to form groups. And its getting that way on other severs as well.

Dibrom.6408:

Works as intended. A portal travel would break jumping puzzles.

It really would not. its on a long CD. Also so its ok for Mesmer’s to be able to do it but not Necro’s?

stirfry.5240:

If you use a mesmer portal you can travel between any two points within the time limit without a problem. Necrotic traversal seems worthless in comparison. It seems like it’s using the code from thief’s shadow step instead of the mesmer portal. It has a very short unlisted range limitation. It can not take you across the map like a mesmer portal by any means. Most of the time it ports you vaguely in the direction of your wurm instead of the actual location of the wurm. Frequently it only “teleports” you a single step but kills the wurm anyway. The skill should be fixed to have the portal functionality for the necromancer. If not, the text should be fixed to describe the actual ability: “Shadow step in the direction of your flesh wurm”.

It has a max range of 1200. I do agree that it should teloport the Necro to the location and not try to move the necro.

Ahmon.1730:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

@Yukishiro.8792

Please read my posts. I never ever said we could not do damage. We can in fact. But what you can’t ask for is to do the same amount of damage as another Prof while keeping our higher survivability. The point of the Prof was to be an attrition Prof, people are asking for that to be change. If you don’t like that aspect of the Prof please don’t ask it to be changed, just stop playing a Necro. Some of us like the Prof as an attrition Prof. Don’t expect us to be happy with the fact that your trying to change the core aspect of the Prof we wanted to play.

If the point of Necro was to be an attrition profession, the mark was severely missed. Comparing like builds (i.e. survival/bunker to survival bunker), Necros are only a little better at surviving. Necros are markedly better at taking down other condition builds, but there are precious few of these. The direct damage is just too high – Necro damage needs to be boosted so that they can attrit faster or survivability needs to be boosted so they can survive in a glass build longer than other glass builds.

And I agree. Some of this will get fixed with bug fixes. But most people would agree that burst in this game is just way too high right now.

BlueprintLFE.2358:

Dude,

You just don’t add options or content because it messes up balance.

Balance is a continual changing thing, and if you don’t believe they should add new content because it will mess up balance, then I completely disagree. There would never be any expansions if they went by that mode of thinking.

And people aren’t complaining about thiefs and glass cannons because there is another mode of SPVP, people are complaining about balance because that’s WHAT THEY DO. People always complain when class X kills them. Balance could be perfect and some people would still think its wrong or this is OP, that’s just how it is. Yes SPVP might have inflated the complaints as more people are pvping on different skill levels, but you can’t exclude whole sections of playerbases because you afraid of messing up balance. Regardless balance complaints would of happened anyways. Tpvp would of eventually started with balance complaints once classes were played enough where people would have seen strengths and weaknesses. That’s how MMO’s go.

Just shows you didn’t read what i said. oh i give up.

@BlueprintLFE.2358

You didn’t read my post. Yes some times there are problems with options. In this case it would change the Prof.

You want to see what happens with more options? Take a look at spvp vs tpvp. Most of the posts are people unhappy with balance in spvp, too much zerg, glass cannons running rampant, everyone playing Thief/Mesmer/Guardian. And why did that happen? Because A.net give people another mode of pvp. Those problem don’t happen in tpvp. And so what do people want? They want more options, arenas, something that will make balancing even worse. It will make people complain even more about balance. There are many examples in many products that show that giving an “option” breaks the original.

@Yukishiro.8792

Please read my posts. I never ever said we could not do damage. We can in fact. But what you can’t ask for is to do the same amount of damage as another Prof while keeping our higher survivability. The point of the Prof was to be an attrition Prof, people are asking for that to be change. If you don’t like that aspect of the Prof please don’t ask it to be changed, just stop playing a Necro. Some of us like the Prof as an attrition Prof. Don’t expect us to be happy with the fact that your trying to change the core aspect of the Prof we wanted to play.

BlueprintLFE.2358:

Well I enjoy the necro, but I’m not blind to the bugs, and I understand others wanting to play the necro differently. Some people just enjoy the necro class in general in any game.

Knowing this I really feel that there should be an option for necros that want to spec pure damage and forgoe deathshrouds survivability to up that damage. I understand with DS why we cannot have high damage, but I don’t think that should be forced on everyone. I seriously would like to see an option to use life force to boost damage by a large margin and in return completely forgoe the survivability gained from life force and DS.

This is one thing I absolutely love in this game is that any class can do any role, why should that stop at the necro?? I see players stating that the mecro will never have high damage and will never do more damage than other classes, and if you dont like it his isnt the class for you, why!? why he hell should players that enjoy a class have to change because they want to play a damage spec!? To me this makes no sense and completely goes against ArenaNets vision they had. More options is Never a bad thing, and if they are worried about balancing changes can always be made. Every profession can fill every role, so Hereford I feel the necro should be able to spec for pure damage and not be hindered by a class mechanic that will always keep them at lower damage. Some player just love damage.

Ps. ANET I am extremely happy that you made necros viable for play without minions, I have always wanted to play a necro in other games, but I absolutely DESPISE pet classes, I can finally enjoy a class I love. Thanks. (I know MM AI need buffed for the ones that do want to play with pets)

Because that was not how the Prof was created. In other words your asking for the fundamental aspect of the Prof to be changed. That’s way. You can play however you want. If you want to go full damage you can, but this game is not about making pure classes so you can’t have a pure dps.

Nothing is stopping the Necro from filling all roles.

@Dibrom.6408

lol, i have always done that. I think deep down i have an everlasting fear of them. No matter how many times i correct myself i always go back.

Teknomancer.8475:

While I would still argue that we need some form of burstiness ( which the change to BiP was a ..weird step in the right direction to me ) I see exactly what you mean by our survival is what holds our class back from being able to do what we are supposed to do. I actually don’t think necros do bad damage at all. I just wish we had a way to frontload that damage into a skill or burst. I can see though how me wanting that burst is probably a direct effect of the fact that , as you said, I cannot survive another players burst at all. So I am wanting us to have burst to make up for that fact.
But the questions still remain on how do we increase necro sustain and survival generally and without making all the other classes cry about us becoming unkillable monsters ?

=P
Madame Moorshade Teknomancer.

And that is a real problem and the reason why we were nerfed so hard. Nothing pisses people off more than not being able to kill someone. To answer your question, i really don’t know. I think if we could generate LF faster and easier we would have the tools to out last a lot of that burst (tpvp). Or other Prof’s need to have their burst lowered. Upping our burst to be on pair while sounds good, would in my opinion be bad for the game, and not fix the real problem. For condition spec’s if they convert the scepter bleeds back to 4-7 sec bleeds that would go a long way to upping our damage. We would be able to stack more bleeds and would up our damage by a nice degree.

Right now glass cannon builds are just to viable. Thief’s will stop having god mode as soon as they stop having perma stealth, through the bug. When that happens your going to see a bunch of Thief’s crying about how much everyone owns them. Because of that bug they are getting way more defense from stealth then they were supposed to, this in turn will make glass cannon build less viable and so in turn lower their damage.

While I am in no way saying Necro’s are fine. Nor have i ever said Necro’s are fine. But i think the real problem is that no one likes playing a attrition Prof(i do, always have always will). Most of the complaints (i said most, not all, there are people on here that understand that we will never match the damage output of the other Prof’s), is that we don’t do as much damage as another Prof. This will always be the case. We gave up damage to be more survivable (now if this is true or not is another debate). I think the Problem is (talking pve) that being survivable does not give us an advantage most of the time. Most mobs are easy mode anyway, so its just about doing as much damage as possible. We then look at Dungeons and the Necro’s survivability does not even show it’s self as Mobs kind of just one shot people that are not dodging (not completely true, necro’s can take some more hits, than other, but less than some). So the question is did we get useful survivability for all the things we gave up.

@Chronologist.9782

If you did that than power Necro’s would do nuts damage with the staff. As they don’t need to be the ones that apply the conditions. Also that might as well be the scepter 3, which most people already hate.

@Teknomancer.8475
Speaking from spvp/tpvp

The problem with buffing condition weapons and such is that we are already viable as a condition Necro. The Buff needed to get condition on level with Burst would make Necro’s gods. It does not address (in my opinion) the real problem with the Prof. Condition damage is about out lasting our opponents. Right now the Problem Necro’s are having is that we don’t outlast our opponents. Burst damage is so high that we can be killed long before our Bleeds do much of anything. This is not a problem with Bleeds (or our condition damage), its a problem with Burst in this game and the lack of surviviablity of the Necro.

It also shows some real problems in the game. Vitality is not worth as much as Toughness. Even maxing out toughness a Necro can be easily killed. This really shows it self at the start of tpvp games.

The other problem this game has is that A.Net introduced an different game mode than tpvp. Something they said they would not do. As soon as they made spvp 8v8 they kittened up balance, and the perceived balance of the players.

When you play tpvp, our problems are not nearly as bad. With many of these problem only being problems due to the number of bugs the Necro has. One of the biggest problems for a condition necro is LF gain. This might be fixed when Gluttony is fixed. Until we get those fixes it is very difficult to see were we stand.

People are asking for damage buffs for the Necro, saying how we don’t compare to other Prof in terms of damage. That is true we don’t compare, but we might never compare. That is what makes a Necro a Necro. We are the Prof that outlasts. It is expected that we use our tools to outlast and use our lower dps but higher survivabilty to take us to victory. That is what makes playing a Necro different than any other Prof.

Onkarunseen.6859:

Completely agree that it needs a change. Chronologist is right , i would say the traveling time does kill the skill. Slight travel time increase and some more base damage. Aoe would be cool too.

Faster Travel speed and perhaps a bump in damage would go a long way, or just faster travel and a slight bump in attack speed. Its never going to do as much damage as an Ele staff 1 attack, due to the LF gain.

I would be fine if they leave it the way it is and bump up the LF gain by 6%. Make it the Condition weapon to gain LF. It would make it feel useful.

Ayestes.1273:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Full power in tpvp the most your getting out of Staff auto attack is 600-700 damage

Exaggeration. I’m done here.

How? I ran the test. Not stacking might that was the best i could get off of staff 1, going full spite and stacking power (runes and berserker’s).

1 staff hits heavy target for ~600, hits light for about ~740. non crit.

Nope didn’t exaggerated at all.

While you on the other hand said that you have seen a 2.4k crit. With out any context behind that. Perhaps the other player had 25 stacks of Vuln, or the attacker had 25 stacks of might. Who knows. If anyone is exaggerating it has been you.

You have been done for some time, since you have no clue what your talking about.

Ayestes.1273:

This thread is becoming evidence why devs often stop communicating in other games. Mentioning you are keeping an eye on something doesn’t mean they aren’t fixing all the profession bugs… heck he even said nearly those exact words.

You mean all the bugs that have been in the game since the first BWE? Why would we think they are working on it? The fact that they released the game with some very major bugs in the Prof shows they don’t care about fixing them. Even now they have not fixed any of the major bugs with the Necro Prof.

Ayestes.1273:

I don’t really consider the staff auto-attacks burst either. The only thing I said was “Their direct damage output with Staff and main hand Dagger is pretty good too”, and that seems to be interpreted by you as me believing they deal burst damage with staff auto-attacks. The only point of contention I have with your definition of burst deals with Lich Form. All you are doing is twisting my words to argue with me, when I actually agree that a Necro needs buffs especially related to power builds. I don’t even understand what you are trying to argue beyond how angry you are with the Necro’s current state. You have made several good points in this thread, but honestly you’ve completely discredited yourself with the way you discuss it. I’m not going to argue with you for the sake of arguing, especially when you can’t see your own exaggerations. Besides, this is all ridiculously off-topic now.

You talked about the Dagger and Staff while talking about burst. When i than stated that the Staff was in no way Burst. You tried to back the clam that the Staff did have burst.

Name one time that i exaggerated?

Turns out you can’t.

Also what gives you the right to make statements “how angry you are with the Necro’s current state.” I never said that i was angry with the current state of the Necro. You lost all credibility long ago.

If your unable to realize your mistake, and you have to resort to attacking another poster, than you are correct there is nothing more to discus.

Snowgoons.6349:

@Angry Flying Squirrel

That’s my entire point, our class defining ability isn’t damage based, 90% of our skills aren’t damage based.

We end up getting majority of our damage from elite and utilities only.

If they don’t want us to do condition spec, either drastically improve our weapon damage or give us a weapon choice like 2h something that actually is damage oriented. Even this is still not enough as our traits kind of suck for power build.

Everything about necro screams, conditions, mass conditions, yet we end up doing it worse than some other classes.

Blue said pistol whip 15k damage I know it’s not ALWAYS this much and rarely is, but still why the hell is our most damaging skill a channeled skill that does MAYBE 4k damage over time?

Why are we not given ANY option to do say 4k damage with conditions?

I still say add a damage explosion to epidemic OR give us separate conditions that actually do damage. Like say add these conditions to our weapons somehow:

Corrupted (2-3 second cast after infected?) aoe, adds a condition which cannot be removed for its duration (10 sec?). This condition explodes an aoe damage explosion when that player walks into a mark. <—- ??

Or

Doomed (4 second cast after infected, can remove it within those 4 seconds) single target, adds a condition that soaks up incoming damage until full then unleashes it on to the player and surrounding players x2? (Maybe too strong?)

Or

Corrosive (2-3 second cast single target), adds special vulnerability that damages the targets armor (temporarily? or maybe even not really damaging your armor) Once armor is burned through: double any incoming bleed effect damage from the originating necro that cast corrosive on you?

I don’t know I am just throwing crap out there.

SOMETHING needs to be done.

That was not your point. You never said any such thing in your post. Condition damage will never be burst. Oh and get 20 stack of bleed on a person and that’s 2k+ damage a sec. Who says our Defining mechanic has to be about damage? Really that’s just flat out boring as hell. Look at the warrior their Prof mechanic is very boring. So no thanks.

Do we have some damage number problems? sure. As it stand we do have to use our utilities to help us out in the damage area.

Our damage being low is not a problem, if we had the servivability to make up for it. As it stand we do not. Necro will never every be a high damage Prof. If that’s what you want than perhaps the Necro is not for you.

Snowgoons.6349:

I don’t know about you guys, but I hate being pigeon holed into the staff as well. Give us 2h hammer (WOULD LOVE 2h AXE NECRO ANET), similar to how mesmer have their sword.

Open up some proper skills, re-do the traits so again we aren’t pigeon holed.

Then I will stop complaining :P

Necro is a lame let down JUST because they gave us DS. I know some of you love DS, but honestly I cannot see how they can up our damage with DS the way it is now. Maybe give us like some said here and another thread a diff DS based on weapons.

They simply will not let us walk around with 40k+ hp when including DS and do great damage.

DS is not about upping your Damage. It is a tool, Some build do use it to up your damage, other builds do not. Expecting it to always up your damage will just be a let down in the long run. They can’t give us a tool that lets us live longer than other Prof and have it up our damage at the same time.

The only problem i think DS have is that generating LF sucks for a lot of weapons. And the fact that we start with 0 LF at the start of every tpvp game. Now if we started with 50% than it would be fine. But our main defense is worthless at the start of very game. This makes playing a “bunker” necro near impossible (and makes the other necro’s very hard, good teams know that the Necro starts with 0 LF and target him first), because any burst Prof worth anything will kill you long before you have generated any LF. And even if you do generate LF your already behind, in the fight.

Yukishiro.8792:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Yukishiro.8792:

Nobody argues DS is pretty good on a power spec. The problem is that it is really lame for a condition spec, which is the most viable spec and certainly a big part of the class.

I disagree. The only problem with DS for a condition spec is building LF is a real pain. Other than that its fine. Even 4 is cool. Aoe channel that can crit multiple times giving the ability proc two different Bleed on crit effects, good times.

Only talking about spvp/tpvp

LF is very hard to build with condition spec and 1 is complete junk. Meaning there is never any justification for staying in DS more than 3ish seconds. Therefore making it rather lame.

Not true. With Full LF it hits just as hard as the staff 1. and since you get stuck in staff anyway what the big deal? If your staying in DS so long that it no longer does equal damage to the Staff your playing it wrong. Hell there is no reason to stay in DS for that long unless you go power. This does not make it bad or even useless. Its like saying the Staff is useless because of the 1 auto attack. So Condition Necro’s don’t get much out of DS 1 so what, they don’t get much out of the Staff 1 either. At least with DS your not stuck with it for 10 sec.

Ayestes.1273:

We are arguing over what we classify as burst, so I don’t think it has much to do with the topic anymore. I ran a Power Necro build last week (and yes, found it terrible in terms of viability, but I don’t think that means it has no “burst”, but that’s my opinion), and found the staff auto attack landing crits for over 2.5k. You are exaggerating here, and we have different definitions of burst.

No you are the one exaggerating. I was giving real numbers. Landing what you say is 2.5K crits over a span of what 2 sec between attacks? is not Burst. Not when other Prof can crit higher than that instantly.

The problem is that you have some odd ideas of what burst is. The fact that you think “2.5k” crits every 2 sec is burst just negates anything you have to say.

Yukishiro.8792:

Nobody argues DS is pretty good on a power spec. The problem is that it is really lame for a condition spec, which is the most viable spec and certainly a big part of the class.

I disagree. The only problem with DS for a condition spec is building LF is a real pain. Other than that its fine. Even 4 is cool. Aoe channel that can crit multiple times giving the ability proc two different Bleed on crit effects, good times.

Only talking about spvp/tpvp

The damage on the staff is already low. It needs to hit as hard as the Eng rifle if its speed is going to stay that slow. Or just a little less with the same attack speed. It does give us life force after all, so it can’t be equal to the eng rifle.

Really the staff just does not make any since as its 1 is a DD attack on a condition/utility weapon.

Ayestes.1273:

I think you completely misunderstood what I said. I think it’s gimmicky, because of that cooldown. I don’t think it’s viable. The staff 4 and auto attacks do output a decent amount of damage, but I was speaking more the combination of using it with the dagger. I don’t think that’s viable either, but not because the damage output is low. I agree with you that Necro’s need serious changes and some buffs, but I don’t agree that they completely lack burst. It’s gimmicky and not viable in tPvP, but claiming they lack it completely is disingenuous in my opinion.

So its not viable, so in other words they don’t have it. If something is not viable than it might as well not be in the game as its not something the Prof can use. In other words they don’t have it. And I don’t know what staff spec your playing but even if you go Full power in tpvp the most your getting out of Staff auto attack is 600-700 damage a hit, on a very slow attack. That’s not burst, that’s sustain. Eng rifle hits harder and has a faster attack.

Ayestes.1273:

Necros can have incredible power damage output in Lich Form. Continuous 4.5k crits is what I’d consider burst. It’s incredibly gimmicky though, moreso then 100B and the like in my opinion. It’s not really that viable, but I’d consider it a form of burst. Their direct damage output with Staff and main hand Dagger is pretty good too, their problem is related to other stuff. They have issues, but I think people exaggerate how drastic they are.

Sorry but when you say Necro’s have Burst but that burst is on a 180 CD. That does not even come close to comparing to other Prof. Name one other Prof that can only get burst every 180sec. Your really trying to say the Staff auto attack hits hard?

Yes, this post must be at least 15.

ryston.7640:

Guess it got missed.

Tell me a burst build that isnt also a dps build please?

I see ppl arguing wether burst or dps builds should counter bunkers… but im at a loss to think of a burst build that cant dps, and i cant think of any dps builds commonly run that cant burst. The fact is that to make a dps build youve already taken most of what it takes to burst, so the remaining cost of opportunity between burst or survival…

The ONLY exceptions that come to mind are the ranger dot build, which has questionable dps, and my total lack of understanding regarding necro builds.

Really? OK well NECRO! so done. Necro can dps but can’t in anyway BURST. Not sure how you could forget about the Necro….nvm, the Dev have forgotten about he Necro its not surprising you have.

I said that and i just remembered that’s not true. Eng have one and so do Ele. So NVM. Really wish the edit post option worked all the time.

Dibrom.6408:

Anomaly.7612:

Plague Signet:
-Doesn’t take condi’s off allies, but still gives them to you.
-Breaks stun

Ok, so sure, it doesn’t have the utility of cleansing your team, but that’s ANet’s fault, which I’m sure they’ll make right.

Although there’s that bug, it can still be used to transfer all your condi’s from yourself to your enemy, then use epidemic to spread everything.

It still works as a stun break.

It doesn’t work as a stun break because you’ve already activated it to through all those copied conditions off you.

You can think of it as a problem or that it just makes it that much harder to use. Either way its kind of odd, one nice thing and i am sure its going to get nerfed is the fact that you can use it to remove conditions with out a target. I kind of think of it as a get out of jail free card. Not only does it break stun but it removes immobilize. Something no other stun breaker can do.

alanis.6094:

Angry Flying Squirrel.3041:

Stormy O.7025:

It seems you’re unaware of +condition durations, which I did mention in my above post. My blood marks causes bleed for 13 seconds.

There are several runes to increase the bleed duration. There’s a trait to increase bleed duration. And the power line increases condition duration.

Add the direct damage from blood mark too (albeit it’s not much) and it’s not difficult to get the damage to be over 4k.

Post your build or its not happening. So go full condition damage and full spite that tops out mark of blood at 3.8k. Now why you would go spite, no one will ever know but ok.

And yes I understand what condition duration means. Too bad you don’t. Duration is crap in pvp. Unless your playing scrubs it will never last that long.

Still don’t see how your getting it to last that long. Even with armor runes it does not get to 13 seconds. And like some one stated they don’t all stack.

You only need 50% condition duration to get MoB up to 12 seconds, which will top 4200 bleeding damage. You can do that fairly easily with 0 points into Spite.

Additionally, I am not sure this if this is a l33t tPvP thread or not, but conditions go the full duration in WvW pretty often.

Talking about spvp/tpvp.