Guild Wars 2

Very nice guide. Thank you for posting it for this community. Hopefully some of the information posted here will quell some of the whiners once they try it out. I run a very similar setup to the Crithammer myself.

I go with a 5/10/30/20/5 build (sPvP) and use a Berserker’s Amulet with 6 runes of Divinity. If anyone is curious as to the setup, here is the link: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQJARSlYgiCHHyKEfYFRuArCEsWAmCNmxrHOkiME;ToAg0CnoqxUjoGbNuak1sIYQA

The playstyle is very fun and allows you to survive almost any situation while still dolling out some respectable damage. With your Hammer, start channeling #5 and before it finishes, hit Judge’s Intervention and trap a target. Pop Stand Your Ground and start the Hammer chain. Finish it with a Mighty Blow and then Banish your opponent to knock them down against the wall of Ring of Warding. While they are knocked down, hit Zealot’s Embrace and quickly swap to your greatsword. Drop symbol of wrath and follow with a Whirling Wrath. Profit ensues.

As for your guide, Brutaly, thank you again for all the information and I’m sure it will help many people out. If I may suggest a couple of items, I would bold some of your more important text like ability names and perhaps sub-sections, just to make them slightly clearer. I would also specify which traits are located in which lines, bolding them as well, just for clarity’s sake. Hope you get your sticky!

Forgal was pretty annoying to be honest. I have heard great things about Tybalt though.

I agree with a good deal of your points, although I am still avidly playing GW2. I enjoy the experience and I am just now digging into the sPvP aspect of the game. Despite agreeing with almost everything you said, I have to say that I am not overly disappointed by what I see in GW2. I’ll explain:

There are many features that are missing (like trading, dueling, sitting in chairs, etc…) that are bothersome, annoying, and confusing at times. I am always on mumble playing with one or two of my friends and I can’t help noticing that I can’t go more than 10-15 minutes without commenting on something that “needs work” in GW2. My friends agree. However, we all still play. It hasn’t really been enough to make us feel like the game isn’t worth playing.

I believe that simply boils down to this game almost creating (or rather, expanding) on a sub-genre of the MMORPG, or maybe establishing a rift between genres. To elaborate, you have the traditional MMORPG’s that follow WoW and its predecessor’s philosophies, which essentially came down to vertical progression as opposed to horizontal progression. In GW2, you have vertical progression until you hit 80 and earn your first set of exotics. After that point all of your progression that is not solely related to skill is completely horizontal.

So it really isn’t even the same genre as a game like WoW. That is not a bad thing by any stretch of the imagination. However, people should be well aware of that fact while playing GW2. As you stated earlier, it is indeed more about the journey than the destination. Some people will naturally prefer one or the other, as they are fairly stark contrasts dressed up in the same packaging – that being the MMORPG format.

Ultimately, my conclusion is simple. There are two types, or if you prefer, genres of MMORPGs available for you to take part in. There are ones that favor vertical progression (the carrot on the stick, the gear treadmill, the raiding) and ones that favor horizontal progression (the journey, the experience, the aesthetics). It really is up to the gamer to decide which one they wish to play, if not both.

For anyone who has read my response and is curious, my preference is two-fold. I think in the long run I would prefer a vertical progression MMORPG. I like the carrot on a stick and I like feeling like the time I put into something earns me the right to feel especially powerful compared to others who haven’t dedicated that amount of time. However, given my current schedule with work and my limited ability to play, a horizontal progression game fits the bill perfectly. I love GW2 for giving me the MMORPG experience without the massive time sink looming over me as I grind away the hours. I find that I am able to play for an hour here and an hour there and be satisfied with my time spent, then log off to do something else, or even play another game. I am thoroughly enjoying GW2, but I think in the future, once I have some more time on my hands, I will make my way back over to the treadmill and hit up the old grind once more.

willing to bet he gets some bites

Edit: lol too late.

DreamOfACure.4382:

Saying skills should be balanced for both PvE and PvP is like saying LoL characters should be balanced for fighting Bots and normal Ranked players simultaneously.

Completely untenable.

No it really isn’t because LoL and GW2 are in two completely different genres. I can’t speak for the current state of WoW, but I know that they implemented a system that allowed abilities to function essentially the same way in PvP and PvE, albeit with varying degrees of success.

I don’t believe Blizzard’s system was perfect, but it was a pretty interesting way to deal with the situation. It wouldn’t work in the realm of GW2 but that isn’t to say the only method is to split. Once you start splitting for the sake of balance, you have to start splitting everything, not just a move here and a move there.

As others have pointed out, the Greatsword Symbol would have been a much better starting point to create split effects. I think many would agree to that, if a split were to be implemented, that is.

Zeph.5927:

Learn to take some criticism. Seriously. And yes, I personally believe that your line of reasoning is flawed. PvP and PvE changes need to be separated. It’s been proven time and time again in other MMOs that skill changes for both PvE And PvP have a negative effect on one of them. You cannot effectively balance a skill for both, generally speaking because they are two entirely different beasts. PvP and PvE situations are usually completely different from each other. Nerfing a skill for PvP reasons almost always negatively affects the skill in PvE and vice versa. To WANT a system that makes the SAME change for both is, honestly, stupid. It creates way more problems than it solves. For you to not realize this is……well, I won’t even go there. If it all comes down to learning a PvE and PvP variation of a skill, then that is not a problem. If it is a problem, then maybe MMOs are not for you. I hear Hello Kitty is an easy game to learn.

Some people just can’t keep it civil. Here’s some criticism for you to take: reading comprehension – yours sucks. Taking criticism is one thing, but having an opinion that is different than yours does not warrant you to harass me with claims that I am insane or stoned. Simple as that. Does it hurt my super sensitive feelings? No. I tried to make a constructive post, which many people are contributing to in a constructive way, and you come in here like a bigshot thinking you know everything about MMO balance with your only credibility standing on the fact that I must be stupid for believing what I believe.

Now here is why your reading comprehension sucks. Nowhere in my post did I even present an argument. I stated an opinion and then stated that I am well aware that others will have differing opinions. What does this tell a normal person? It tells them that I am willing to accept different stances on the matter because I understand that it is a topic of great contention and varying successes in other iterations of the MMO genre. What does this tell you? “This guy is so stupid he thinks different than me what a moron.kitten”

So there is my ad hominem, you aren’t intelligent enough for your opinion to matter. I only hope you get a chance to read this before I’m infracted and my post is deleted. Perhaps it will make you think twice about sharing your views and save other posters from your ignorance.

Good day, sir.

@ Creslin:

“Are you freaking insane?…Are you high? Some people……”

That is most certainly ad hominem. He is not attacking my argument in the slightest with those statements. He is simply attempting to tear down the credibility of what I am saying by implying that there is something inherently flawed in my person, rather than my text.

Zeph.5927:

Yeah, I’ve noticed that the Leap of Faith “fix” didn’t make the skill any more reliable. I’m still missing mobs like I did before (yes they are within range). It still sends me flying way over their heads, even when on the same level as them. It also still sends me flying the OPPOSITE direction of the mob sometimes (don’t know how that even happens, but it does). The “fix” did jack squat to improve the reliability of the skill. Once again, Anet proves that they don’t seem to know what they’re doing.

That may occur as a result of client vs. server side lag, I believe. This often can be problematic with movement based abilities like leaps and charges.

Zeph.5927:

Wait….so you’re griping because they actually made a change that affects PvP and PvE differently? Are you freaking insane? That’s what they SHOULD do. It’s what they SHOULD have done with the Symbol of Wrath nerf, changed it in PvP and left it as is in PvE. Balancing skills separately in PvP and PvE is the ONLY way to go. It worked WONDERS in GW1 and it’s most definitely the way they should handle skill changes in GW2. I hope they do this more often. Because nerfing a skill for the sake of PvP and then having huge repercussions in PvE (or vice versa) as well is the most kitten thing ever. Don’t know why you would want it that way.

Seriously, think about what you just said. You would rather them make the same changes to a skill in both PvP and PvE, and possibly have one of them suffer a lot more because of it? Are you high? Some people……

Wonderful ad hominem attack. My argument’s (if you can even really label it as such) credibility has been dashed apart by your superior debating skills. In any case, you clearly didn’t read what I wrote very carefully. I am well aware that some people disagree with my stance on the issue, which is why I stated that in my OP. I am curious to see what others think. It is blatantly obvious what you think, but I am having trouble taking your opinion with all that much consideration simply based on the way you presented yourself.

Plenty of games out there do not diversify the way abilities work in PvP and PvE, and plenty of games do. It is really up to the development at the end of the day. Also, note that I am not suggesting that I believe it is ok to completely wreck the way something works for either PvE or PvP, just for the sake of promoting balance in one or the other. Like I said, if the move cannot be balanced for both, it should be redesigned to work differently. Obviously, that is easier said than done and I leave that up to the devs at ArenaNet.

Hopefully the following responses will be more constructive than yours was, but thank you all the same for the discussion and free bump.

Sorry, I couldn’t resist. Topic title was just too good to pass up in my eyes. If you’ll forgive the ploy, that isn’t actually what I want to focus on. I understand that many people are upset with the recent change to “Save Yourselves!” while others are promoting the change as a more balanced approach to sPvP.

However, what I would like to really focus on with this discussion, is the emergence of a disparity between functions of an ability in PvE and PvP. I was hoping that it would never come to this, because I really don’t like the way that feels. In my opinion, an ability should be balanced to work both in PvP and PvE, and if it can’t, it should be redesigned. However, that is just my opinion, and I’m sure others will disagree.

What concerns me is that this change sets a precedent for things to come. I really don’t want to see the gap widened between functionality of abilities in PvP and PvE. What do you all think about this?

I’d even go as far as to suggest it gives +3 seconds to the boon duration per condition stripped but starts with a base of 0. So if you strip no conditions, you get no boons, if you strip 1, you get 3 seconds, if you strip 2 you get 6 seconds, so on and so forth.

If you are on the same elevation and they are not moving, how are you not connecting with them? You must be out of range slightly. The Leap should not be missing the Golems, ever.

Yea and while ANet is at it they should probably make Endure Pain reset the recharges on some of the Warriors key abilities….

Different professions with different abilities. Why do you want to homogenize?

@ Lilun: I love it. Great suggestion. This is the kind of response the community needs to bolster.

If this guy isn’t a troll he is just beyond help. If you are dying 3 times faster than other professions in sPvP you probably should reroll.

Ganzo.5079:

@eveningstar: yeah but not all GS simbols users rely on zeal line.
From my experience, even if i use e pure support build, some fight(on dungeon) are just to frenetic to use 2 slow weapons and thats the case where GS shine (before the 7/10 patch).
Yeah the the zeal line have surely a problem: minor traits for simbols and the only weapons dedicated with major simbols are GS (really slow simbol) and scepter (no simbol), but thats not all. A CD of 20 sec on a core class skill is still too high.

@Brutal: really i dont see a big picture… i look what i have in the hands now, im not a seer, and for now the things dont work properly. (for me is intended.)

The big picture is balance, my friend.

Eveningstar.6940:

“Get Over Yourselves.”

Sorry, I just have to ask: Do you think we could successfully petition ANet to change the name of “Save Yourselves” to “Get Over Yourselves”?

I’m trademarking it for future whiners on this forum, lol. Most powerful shout Guardians have in their arsenal now.

Definitely going to have to agree with Brutaly here (with the exception of his stance on the Greatsword being OP prior to the 10/7 patch). This community is one of the weakest communities I have ever seen. “Oh they nerfed this and they nerfed that. Let’s wait and see what they nerf next. Screw this I’m rerolling. ANet hates the Guardian.”

Let me make something very clear to you if you believe any of the statements above, you do not understand how this profession works in the slightest. We are arguably the best profession in the game when it comes to sPvP (right up there with Mesmers and Thieves). This “nerf” changes nothing, because as Brutaly stated, why on Earth are you even using Save Yourselves in sPvP to begin with? Unless you roam around by yourself (which makes you a bad Guardian) if you strip those conditions off your allies you are going to absolutely melt. Sure, Contemplation of Purity gets rid of them, but as Brutaly said, do you really want to be using two utility slots just to make one Shout more effective? I don’t.

Again, as Brutaly has stated, have you even read the patch notes? Renewed Focus now allows us to be mobile. How do you not see how huge this is? You get all of your virtues back, you go invulnerable for 3 seconds, and you get to keep tactically positioning yourself instead of sitting in a clump of AoE’s that are going to smash you as soon as Renewed Focus is finished casting.

We also got our gap closer to reliably hit targets. Although this isn’t a “buff” because technically it should have always been functioning as it is now, it is still better than what we had before. It is also on a 15 second CD (lower with traits) since the last patch.

Anyone else here that was upset by the 10/7 patch? I was very disappointed when I read those notes. I hated the fact that SoW got nerfed by effectively 50%. It really hindered build diversity and made Greatsword Symbol builds almost pointless. At least ArenaNet has compensated us by buffing the damage output slightly. They realized it was too harsh and they reverted some of the change. The symbol isn’t quite where I, and many others, would like to see it, but this is a step in the right direction.

So, by my count, that is 2 (3 if you coun’t Leap of Faith’s fix as a buff) buffs to 1 nerf. I’ll take that any day, especially considering that Save Yourselves was incredibly powerful in its previous state. It is still incredibly powerful, and those of you who use it, keep using it! It isn’t like they took the ability off your hotbar. It is just a bit more group oriented and less self oriented now. Hmmm, that doesn’t line up with the name Guardian at all, now does it? Right.

Stop all your crying and moaning, learn to play (yea that’s right) learn to play, and get over yourselves (I should have made a thread topic: “Get Over Yourselves.” Oh well, there that goes). In any case, take heed of what the Guardians who know what they are doing are saying. We know this profession inside and out and we are taking even this negligible insult in stride and will continue to play this profession because it is the one we love, not the one we feel compelled to play because it is the “best.”

TL;DR: Grow up or do us all a favor and reroll. This community should be better than you are making it.

cannons.8109:

Prothescar.7842:

Dunno, I’m gonna disagree with you there. I find Altruistic Healing to be indispensable in PvP, particularly high volume PvP in WvW. An Empower is very easily a full HP heal in most situations.

How does AH and empower = full heal? I thought it procs a max of (5 targets per pulse x 4 pulses x 73) + about 1,750 = 3,210 healing over 3.5 seconds. Is there some way you can trait it so it heals for more?

Remember that each pulse is 3 stacks of might. I am not entirely certain but I believe each stack counts as an individual boon, each one proccing AH. Then of course there is the base heal from Empower itself. With enough Healing Power, it isn’t unheard of to full heal from 20-25% HP.

Ezrael.6859:

By PvP I would imagine he means Tournaments, not Zerg vs Door.

Meditations Healing is great there. Altruistic Healing is of course lackluster when alone.

Altruistic Healing is in no way, shape, or form lackluster when alone. It is probably the strongest trait we have in terms of survivability. Nearly everything we do applies a boon. Therefore nearly everything we do heals us. Even alone, the amount of healing generated through Altruistic Healing adds up to a few healing skills worth in an average fight. It only gets stronger the more allies you have.

That is strange, and perhaps a bug. You may want to file a report, but make sure to double check it. Ask another Guardian with the trait to drop a symbol and then make sure you have it traited as well and do the same. If there is a size discrepancy, report it. Otherwise, problem solved.

Ixal.7924:

And sadly the boss design is simply boring. Most of the time ANet simply took a normal mob, multiply HP and damage by 10 and calls it a boss. Fighting them is boring and a tank&spank. Only that without the “holy trinity” the tank is whoever the strange mob AI focuses on. And to tank a mob means running around in circles to not get hit while everyone else takes free shots at the enemy.

This is actually not true at all. The reason it feels like bosses are just overtuned regular mobs is because of the downed state. No one bothers to learn the mechanics because they aren’t necessary to master in order to beat bosses. If the mechanic beats you, your allies just pick you back up and you are able to get downed again and again until you finally hit the penalty limit at like 3-4 downs.

There are almost no bosses, if any, in this game that do not have unique mechanics. Most people ignore them, and that is the real problem, not the bosses themselves. I like Lieutenant Kholer for example. Look at the encounter from a non zerg fest perspective, the way dungeons should be handled:

He has two adds which need to be killed first. During this time you must avoid his AoE Scorpion Wire which, if you don’t, results in a almost sure downed state. He also has a dodge roll which is followed up with a strike that inflicts a poison condition. He rolls behind you and I’m pretty sure strikes for more damage if he lands the back stab. This is all in addition to his standard melee attacks which hit my very tanky Guardian for roughly 1.5k-2k every 2-3 seconds or so.

His damage is respectable but not ridiculous. He probably 2 or 3 shots some of the squishier classes if he gets a chance, but unless you are literally standing in his melee it is very hard for him to kill you. If you dodge the Scorpion Wire and you dodge the poison strike, you are forced to take some of his actual melee hits, which will eventually down you if you (aren’t a BA like myself) if you don’t back off and heal and let others take some hits.

The entire two previous paragraphs can be ignored due to the downed state. Those are all mechanics which every person who fights him should know, and should prepare for. I have yet to run a group through AC where nobody goes down at least once on that fight. Not one single group. However, I have also never had a group fail on AC either. That is a serious problem. If you don’t need to learn to succeed, you will never learn.

In essence, this is why so many people, excuse me for being blunt, suck so badly at dungeons. It really is a problem that needs to be further addressed.

Doesn’t feel natural to be carrying around a Scepter, or even a Staff, either, but oh well.

This has been asked a few times and the answer is yes. Once every ten seconds, two conditions are removed, assuming the signet is not on recharge from use.

Shooopa.5632:

Animus.6073:

Shooopa.5632:

Animus.6073:

Some of these abilities have no warning and require you to quickly respond

Do I even need to point out what’s wrong with this sentence?

If a one-shot kill ability has no warning you CAN’T respond.

If you insist on criticism, at least make sure you are correct before you reveal to your audience that you, in fact, have no idea what you are talking about.

I said some abilities do not give you any warning but require you to quickly respond to a stimulus in order to not die or be “1-shot” by it. These might be in the form of debuffs that require you to act quickly to cleanse yourself (or others who have been inflicted) or a bomb on the floor, or something else along those lines. The boss does not warn you that he has placed a bomb under your feet, but if you do not move away from it, it will one shot you.

That is how some other MMO’s work, but that isn’t really the way it works in GW2. Some “1-shot” mechanics are much more subtle than that and some are much more obvious. When the Howling King is about to screech, you see it coming. When the Golem boss mentioned earlier turns around and swings, you may not see that coming, but that is only because you either don’t know the mechanic well enough to avoid it or you are simply not supposed to be in melee range at that time.

It is entirely possible to complete dungeons without getting 1-shot, I do it all the time. I see others doing it all the time. It really isn’t difficult once you learn how to handle an encounter.

What you’re saying is it’s all just a matter of dumb luck. Not skill.

If there’s nothing to suggest you shouldn’t be within melee range of an enemy at a certain time then the only solution is to NEVER be within melee range of them.

Do you not see the obvious problem with this?

Not suggesting that at all. I am suggesting that people have not learned when to be where yet because Arena Net doesn’t make it blatantly obvious like many other MMOs do. Because this game is so new, you don’t have tons of people shouting at you to get out of melee range or get into it at certain times.

Some mechanics are more easily telegraphed than others, but I’m willing to bet that most people haven’t learned the more complicated ones yet. Just because a boss hasn’t put a giant green cloud of death on your character doesn’t mean that you are standing in a safe spot for instance. We have been trained by other MMOs to only associate certain animations or locations as dangerous, when that simply is not holding true for GW2.

For example, that Golem boss that was referenced, maybe he has a mechanic that makes him “1-shot” a melee opponent that stands in range for more than a certain amount of time, or hits him too much before his “aggro table” chooses another priority. Like I said, we simply have not tested it for long enough to make these sorts of conjectures.

@ the person referencing the Priest of Balthazar, I believe that is a world boss, and not a dungeon boss, correct? If so, then that doesn’t really fit into the scope of what we are talking about. I don’t doubt for a second that he is one shotting people left and right without telegraphing it, as that seems to be the norm for big world DE bosses, but I can’t say for sure because I haven’t done that event myself. Also note that I don’t necessarily think that is good game design if that is really how it works.

@ Muricar

You are looking at it the wrong way. Whirling Wrath lasts for about 3.5 seconds. In those 3.5 seconds you pull off 10% (according to OP) more damage than a chain auto attack would accomplish. With the Hammer, Mighty Blow probably lasts 1.5 seconds from input to the next auto attack (or maybe closer to 1 second, I can’t recall exactly). In that same amount of time, your auto attack chain would provide either more or the same amount of damage, which is why the OP believes that using Mighty Blow will not effectively increase your dps.

Shooopa.5632:

Animus.6073:

Some of these abilities have no warning and require you to quickly respond

Do I even need to point out what’s wrong with this sentence?

If a one-shot kill ability has no warning you CAN’T respond.

If you insist on criticism, at least make sure you are correct before you reveal to your audience that you, in fact, have no idea what you are talking about.

I said some abilities do not give you any warning but require you to quickly respond to a stimulus in order to not die or be “1-shot” by it. These might be in the form of debuffs that require you to act quickly to cleanse yourself (or others who have been inflicted) or a bomb on the floor, or something else along those lines. The boss does not warn you that he has placed a bomb under your feet, but if you do not move away from it, it will one shot you.

That is how some other MMO’s work, but that isn’t really the way it works in GW2. Some “1-shot” mechanics are much more subtle than that and some are much more obvious. When the Howling King is about to screech, you see it coming. When the Golem boss mentioned earlier turns around and swings, you may not see that coming, but that is only because you either don’t know the mechanic well enough to avoid it or you are simply not supposed to be in melee range at that time.

It is entirely possible to complete dungeons without getting 1-shot, I do it all the time. I see others doing it all the time. It really isn’t difficult once you learn how to handle an encounter.

Right but the whirlwind does more DPS than the amount of auto attack chains you could fit into its duration. That may not be the case with the Hammer and Might Blow. Like I said, I haven’t done the math, but that is the rationale.

@ Braxxis:

I think you misunderstood me, but you got the gist of what I was saying. I didn’t literally mean bosses in other MMO’s all have 1-shot mechanics as in “boom! random person dead.” They have mechanics that you need to learn and avoid in order to prevent a death (IE not standing in fire/poison/getting out of melee range/etc…). Some of these abilities have no warning and require you to quickly respond and others you need to take preventative measures to avoid. In either case, they require you to learn the mechanic or you will fail.

In GW2, there are simply no instances of unwarranted “1-shot” mechanics. It is the same as WoW or any other game. If you are in the wrong spot at the wrong time or refuse to play the encounter as you are supposed to, the game will punish you for it. The only problem is that the punishment is just time and embarrassment, since your allies can just pick you back up in almost every case.

If a boss is 1-shotting a melee profession fully decked out in “tank” gear, that means one of a few things is occurring. It could mean that the player was supposed to move away at a certain interval of time. It could mean that the player hit the boss when he was supposed to stop attacking. It could mean that he was supposed to run around to the other side of the boss. The list goes on and on. The game isn’t even 2 months old and I firmly believe people have not learned all of the mechanics well enough to make complaints like yours.

One thing I will grant you is that I disagree with the imbalance between melee and ranged in terms of boss fight viability. Some fights really punish melee, while only a sparse amount give range any real problems. However, punishing melee does not mean constantly downing them. I promise you there are many of ways to avoid these problems you are encountering. Blind, block, aegis, protection, stability (in some cases).

People who play to never get downed have to hit a very high skill cap in some encounters, but completing encounters regardless of downed players requires one of the lowest skill caps I have ever seen in an MMO. It is really perplexing why the downed state exists in dungeons, because I don’t believe for a second that Arena Net said at some point in development, “Let’s make bosses that just turn around and kill people for no reason whatsoever, but it’s no big because the downed state isn’t permanent.” What kind of design philosophy would that be? I could see that working for maybe 1 encounter as a novelty or something, but as an entire dungeon experience, no way.

I can’t say “trust me” as much as I want to here because the game is so young, but I would love to promise you that these complaints will vanish in the coming weeks/months.

Muircar.1259:

Muircar.1259:
umm… how does mighty blow not increase damage? it’s the hammer’s hardest hitter…

It increases total damage output but not necessarily damage over a set amount of time since you are not auto-attacking while using mighty blow. The main perk on mighty blow is the blast finisher.

by that rationale how are any of the skills other than autattack considered? MB has a 5-second CD, 4 if traited. you can get 4 off MBs in the amount of time it takes for 1 GS WW CD.

You are missing the point. Assuming the OP has done his math correctly, which I admit I haven’t even checked, his rationale is that the opportunity cost of hitting mighty blow is giving up the Hammer’s auto-attack which provides comparable damage in the same amount of time. Therefore it has the same DPS, or higher than Mighty Blow does on its own.

Essentially, if you took the auto-attack damage and stretched it out over 2 minutes, and then did the same thing for Mighty Blow’s damage (without auto-attacking in between), you would see that Mighty Blow does not provide higher damage over those two minutes than the auto-attack chain.

This is largely due to the fact that, in GW2, your auto-attack is not actually continued while you utilize an “on demand strike” ability like it is in some other MMOs. For example, in WoW, you would always gain more DPS from hitting Crusader Strike as a Retribution Paladin because doing so did not stop your auto-attack from hitting as well. In GW2, you have to weigh whether or not your auto-attack will outperform a given ability’s DPS to determine if it is worth using solely for damage output.

I hope that clarifies the situation a bit.

If you really want to run a healing through symbols build you should consider picking up a set of Cleric’s gear. Run with a x/x/30/30/x or x/x/30/20/x build and make sure to pick up Altruistic Healing. If you are running Symbols I would encourage the x/x/30/30/x build and more specifically, 0/5/30/30/5.

That used to be my build with Greatsword and I loved it. Now it doesn’t work as well with the 20 second recharge on the Symbol. If you love the Greatsword you may want to consider picking up 2-Handed Mastery and drop one of your Symbol traits, if you can. Otherwise drop the Greatsword and replace it with a Mace/OH or perhaps a Hammer (I personally find the Hammer mind-numbingly boring in PvE). Or you could always just keep your Symbol traits and roll with the Greatsword. It won’t be as effective as it used to be but it definitely still works.

I don’t recall if Healer’s Retribution specifically refers to your healing skill (slot 6), but that would be my guess. I’m at work so I can’t look it up without a link to the text and I’m lazy right now, sorry. So to answer, if it says a “healing ability” or “healing skill” it would not grant retaliation. Otherwise it might.

However, I don’t believe there is any way to currently keep retaliation up 100% with Healers Retribution, otherwise it would be a little overpowered.

@ Braxxis:

You are just proving my point even further. There are certain mechanics in this game that will one shot you no matter how geared you are. They exist in every MMO out there. They are not random. There is plenty of warning. Some bosses glow and some have timers on said abilities. Some have animations to look for, some will perform a 1 shot if a person is standing in the wrong place, or perhaps if they are out of melee range when they should be in it, or standing at range when they should be standing in melee.

No ego stroking going on here at all. I am trying to explain that it is really just a matter of people not understanding how to play effectively and efficiently yet. Some people get it and some people haven’t yet, and sadly, some people never will. That is the nature of a game that has such a vast player base.

Edit: I “lol’d” because I have been playing MMOs for around 8 years on and off and it just amazes me what some people think is passable for “skill” these days. When people think that getting downed by mechanics that can be avoided is ok because their teammates can just pick them back up, it makes me cringe a little bit. The downed state should be removed from dungeons in my opinion, and I have two reasons for believing this.

1. It hinders people from learning mechanics simply because they don’t need to. In WoW, if you didn’t learn a mechanic, you got punished for it and weren’t able to complete the content. Why bother having a mechanic if it can be entirely ignored through the downed state?

2. Content is trivialized by it. Same reasoning as above. What is the point of designing bosses and encounters with all these mechanics if no one has to really learn them to complete them? There are some examples which aren’t necessarily impacted by this, but most are.

It would be pretty cool if the shield had an ability that blocked a certain number of incoming attacks and set the attackers on fire for a brief duration. Would give the shield a place in burning builds as well as fit the role of a shield better than its current implementation.

GS builds that revolve around symbols and healing lost roughly 50% of their effectiveness since the GS nerf. Will you die if you run it? Probably not, but it won’t be nearly as effective as running a Mace/OH + Staff or something like that. Also, dipping that high into Zeal isn’t worth it just to get the GS healing, since I believe it only heals for something like 25 per strike per enemy. It also does not scale well at all with healing power.

Muircar.1259:

umm… how does mighty blow not increase damage? it’s the hammer’s hardest hitter…

It increases total damage output but not necessarily damage over a set amount of time since you are not auto-attacking while using mighty blow. The main perk on mighty blow is the blast finisher.

It sounds to me like you might be enjoying your Guardian more than your other two professions, but you are somewhat hesitant to choose him as your main because he is the lowest level and you have a bit of ground to cover to bring him up to your other characters.

Since you don’t seem like you are in any hurry to get to level 80, I would strongly encourage you to play your Guardian. I chose a Guardian as my main and have played him all the way to 80 and enjoyed every minute of it. There are a few problems with it, but nothing so horrible that you won’t enjoy yourself.

As far as WvW is concerned, you will be a little hindered when it comes to your offensive capabilities in larger “zerg” style combat, due to a lack of solid ranged weapons. However, you will definitely be a huge support to your guild and your server just from throwing out support and smacking down any opponents who wander close enough to your group.

TL;DR: Guardian all the way

Lol @ whoever was complaining about a 20 minute fight but having people getting “randomly” one shot. You know what? It isn’t random. Learn the mechanic, stop dying, you stop spending all that time picking up your downed teammates. Turns your 20 minute encounter into a 10-15 minute encounter tops.

Again, seriously a big L2P issue going on in this thread.

Relentliss.2170:

Scepters suck, Staff sucks, Hammer is Dull, Mace is slow, Sword is ok in pve…

I am running out of weapons to pick from.

Eh..I don’t know that I would go that far, but our weapons definitely need some tuning to make them more attractive. Each one has problems. Scepter auto-attack is unreliable and looks wimpy (also has no chain), staff has pitiful damage, Hammer is very boring in PvE, Mace is only attractive to dungeon runners focused on defense, the 1h sword is actually in a good place.

No need to list the others; you guys get the point. Each of the Guardian’s weapons (and I’m fairly certain other professions feel the same way about their weapons) definitely is lacking in one area or another that makes it an unappealing choice. To clarify, I am not saying that each weapon should be good at everything, but I am saying that there are certain drawbacks to each weapon that make it almost universally unattractive.

When you don’t have a nice base of weapons to choose from, it makes these drawbacks less apparent. I think that is one of the core issues with the current state of the Guardian. I’m not saying people can’t enjoy certain weapons, but compared to our counterparts in other professions, I would say our weapon enjoyment factor is on the low end of the spectrum, even if we find the profession enjoyable on the whole.

Sorry, to clarify, boons which stack in intensity like Might will still proc AH but boons which stack in duration do not proc it.

I only watched the video once so I can’t say exactly but I know enough to be sure it is some variant of x/x/30/20/x. Where those missing 20 points go is up for some debate but these are the confirmed traits as far as I can tell.

Very sturdy build and allows for quite a bit of flexibility. I personally run 0/15/30/20/5.

Leon Trotsky.3674:

Animus.6073:

No the L2P guys, including myself, are not wrong. There are certain fights in which the boss has more HP and mitigation than others, but if any dungeon is taking you longer than an hour and a half you are playing it wrong.

Remember how much people kitten and moaned, they still kind of do, about the kaboomium event in Magg’s path? Then someone posted a video of a group doing it successfully without having to kite until the very end. Then you see a slew of posters saying “well i’ll be kitten it is possible.”

The game has barely been out for what, like 6 weeks? Just because you and your powerful guildies can’t do something efficiently does not mean that it is ridiculously overtuned. I’ve grouped with PUGs that outclass plenty of people in guilds. Guilds are just groups of players that tend to be coordinated, but that in no way ensures that they will be good at this game.

If everyone plays properly, and yes that includes gearing, traiting, and fighting, no single dungeon encounter should ever exceed 15 minutes. Even in WoW’s raiding environment, 15 minute + encounters weren’t exactly run of the mill. So again, once people start getting better, the dungeons will not seem so ridiculous. Group up with full exotics and make sure everyone is “good” and you will see you don’t spend more than 45 minutes in most dungeons.

Hey matey, there is no such a thing as ‘you are playing it wrong’.

There are no wrong ways to play, only different ways.

I mean, unless you take into account opportunity cost (but then again the time you ‘gained’ would be spent playing anyway), taking more or less time to kill a boss is irrelevant as long as you kill it.

I hope this doesn’t come across as disrespectful but you are just wrong. MMO’s these days are notorious for encouraging people to try new builds and avoid the cookie-cutters without feeling like they are giving up too much in one way or another and it just isn’t quite possible in this iteration of GW2.

I blame most of this on the downed state and the ability to run back to an encounter. Not that I dislike the downed state, but in its current implementation it allows people to make all kinds of mistakes with virtually no consequence other than time. Like I said earlier in this thread, I just ran an AC exp where 3 out of the 5 people in my group were getting downed on Kohler and Howing King. When we downed them they were probably like “that was fun and we did it!” Meanwhile I and the other competent player were thinking “how are these people level 80 and still playing this poorly?”

Anyone who says, “well that was just one group and other people play better,” is absolutely right. There are others who play better because they have learned the game. You will not see those players taking upwards of 15 minutes on any encounter because they understand the value of not making mistakes and maximizing their damage output, healing, and support.

Guild Wars is a much much more casual friendly game than any MMO I have played before. Not to say that is bad, and I do think the PvP really shines in this game, but in PvE and dungeons, once you figure out how to play, you simply dominate the content. People who are not are “playing it wrong” and if you are of the opinion that you can play any way you want, you may want to wake up. There will always be builds that outperform others.

No the L2P guys, including myself, are not wrong. There are certain fights in which the boss has more HP and mitigation than others, but if any dungeon is taking you longer than an hour and a half you are playing it wrong.

Remember how much people kitten and moaned, they still kind of do, about the kaboomium event in Magg’s path? Then someone posted a video of a group doing it successfully without having to kite until the very end. Then you see a slew of posters saying “well i’ll be kitten it is possible.”

The game has barely been out for what, like 6 weeks? Just because you and your powerful guildies can’t do something efficiently does not mean that it is ridiculously overtuned. I’ve grouped with PUGs that outclass plenty of people in guilds. Guilds are just groups of players that tend to be coordinated, but that in no way ensures that they will be good at this game.

If everyone plays properly, and yes that includes gearing, traiting, and fighting, no single dungeon encounter should ever exceed 15 minutes. Even in WoW’s raiding environment, 15 minute + encounters weren’t exactly run of the mill. So again, once people start getting better, the dungeons will not seem so ridiculous. Group up with full exotics and make sure everyone is “good” and you will see you don’t spend more than 45 minutes in most dungeons.

I’ve never noticed it, but then again I haven’t really been looking for it. I highly doubt it still is if it used to be. That sounds really powerful.

ElSdE.3215:

Also keep in mind having at least 20 points in virtue is a must for survivability imo. Getting improved resolve almost doubles its regen mine is at 318 healing. (0/0/30/20/20 with 2 monk 2 water 2 major sanc)

Definitely not a must but it is a nice perk if you want to give up some points in other trait lines. Before the change to the GS, I was running a 0/5/30/30/5 build. Now I’m running a slightly more offensive 0/15/30/20/5 build. If you gear with either Knight’s or Cleric’s, you will see that you hardly need to rely on your trait selection in terms of survivability.

My issue with increasing boon duration is that it can actually lower your effective healing if you are running a shout build with altruistic healing, or some other build that benefits from quick application of boons. Since stacks of the same boon do not proc AH, it lowers your ability to heal yourself from it.

If you are not using AH or some form of boon application build, the duration is definitely something you would want to improve as much as possible, without sacrificing too much else in your builds. Keep in mind that by dumping points into Virtues, you are passing up on core stats.

So lets say you put 30 points into Virtues, you are taking away the potential to grab any combination of +300 to some core stats, which can be a pretty big deal depending on how you play. Some people have said you should never pick up points in a trait line just for the stats, but I completely disagree. It really ends up being a choice you have to make for yourself.

What I think is even more valuable than the boon duration is the recharge rate reduction on your virtues, as well as the various major trait options the Virtues line has. That being said, I haven’t ever tried a build that had more than 10 points in the Virtues line, so take my advice with however many grains of salt you wish.

People are still learning how to play. That is why it feels like bosses have too much health and dungeons require abnormally large amounts of time. I am sorry to say but the groups you have been running with are just full of people who don’t understand how to maximize, or at least efficiently play their professions.

I’ve never had a dungeon take more than an hour and a half, and that was my first run through AC. People were learning the mechanics of dungeons and their characters. At level 80, you really should have a firm grasp of how to complete dungeons effectively. If you find yourself in a group that is taking longer than an hour for any given path, you should probably leave.

I was in a group for exp AC yesterday with all 80’s and they were getting downed on Kohler and Howling King…it is abysmal. Not to say that you don’t have your fair share of bad players in WoW, but back when I was playing people got kicked if they were that bad. It is a shame that there is no way to measure the value of specific players in your group, not to stroke egos but to know where your strong points and weak links are.

TL;DR: Dungeons are becoming easier and easier the more people learn how to play. This is a serious L2P issue. I don’t necessarily mean it in a bad way, but bads will be bads.

If Greatsword is your preference I would roll a Warrior. The Guardian Greatsword combat is a bit stale at the moment. That isn’t to say it won’t change and I’m sure some people will disagree with me.

I think you would be hard-pressed to find a Warrior who had any real complaints about the Greatsword, considering the damage output they can rack up with it.

I’ve played Guardian since launch and I have been using the Greatsword since level 3 or so. Even though I thoroughly enjoyed it leveling, in its current state, the Greatsword is currently lacking.

Unless you are completely glass cannon and hitting another completely glass cannon or extremely lower level person in WvW there is no way you are almost two shotting anything. Other than that I completely agree with you.

@ Ragnarox:

Eh…I don’t know that a comparison to the Paladins of WoW is apt for what you are trying to accomplish. If you wanted to DPS, you had very sub-par healing and tanking capabilities, and that held true for any of the 3 options you chose. You would be strong in one area and sub-par in the others. WoW was a game where you had to make a choice of what role you wanted to play. GW2 is different.

The Guardian shouldn’t really be compensated with more damage than they already have. They don’t have the output levels of a thief or a warrior, but that doesn’t concern me, nor should it concern you. You are able to take more of a beating than they are even though your HP is low. Your effective HP is much higher than they will ever be able to attain, and your toughness outclasses theirs as well. If you don’t want to play a profession that is on the more durable side, then you might want to pick up an alt that is more on the damage oriented side of the spectrum.

It is very possible to compete with other classes in PvE and PvP, I would even say we are close to the top-tier, if not the top. That doesn’t mean we would be keeping up with other classes on a damage meter or something of that sort. You have to approach your view of the Guardian completely differently from your view of the Paladin from WoW.