To be fair, I don’t think this forum’s search function has ever worked.
I ask because it seems like she has chased a lot of stuff like this down. Honestly, getting Gaile to look into this seems like our best bet of getting a reply.
I can try. In fact I was writing a response without looking at the most recent posts. The fact that I can ask about this does not guarantee that we’ll be able to answer the basic question, which I sense is “Are changes coming for this situation?” right? But yes, I can certainly see if there’s info to share.
Honestly, I think just asking would be pretty well appreciated – I mean, yes, there will inevitably be people wondering if changes were coming, but people have been wondering that for a year and a half now. You posting does certainly do something about the feeling of being ignored, though.
More than that. Almost two years, at this point.
Being able to not trigger reflection with mainhand weapons, not Kits, is something we should be able to do, but can’t.
The Engineer is balanced around having at least one Kit. If your gameplay experience is ruined because you can’t slot one kit to circumvent projectile hate, then I think it’s more on you to pick up literally any kit (except grenades) and proceed to attack through the effects.
See, this is just going to lead to this same, stupid circular crap where I go “We shouldn’t have to use Kits,” and you go “We’re balanced around them,” and I go “That’s stupid, why are we balanced around a completely optional set of skills,” and you go “That’s how it is, deal with it or play a different class,” going by my previous experiences having this same conversation, albeit with others.
I don’t want that conversation. Instead, I’m going to say that I disagree, and always have disagreed, with the Engineer being balanced in that way, would disagree with any class in any game being balanced in that way, and that I have no interest in debating the point, as I will not be persuaded into thinking that it’s fine, just as I am unlikely to persuade others into thinking that it’s not.
Sorry man. I’m just telling you how it is. You will never be happy with only one bar of skills because every profession in GW2 has two, baseline.
Many players have suggested a trait that unlocks a second weapon set by foregoing the use of Kits. But Arenanet has never acknowledged the concerns of players like you that simply want to use one weapon set and not have to ever switch.
Oh, is that what I was saying, that I want to use one weapon set and never have to switch? News to me.
See, I thought I was saying that it didn’t make sense to balance a class around something that they can simply not have access to, depending on their build. Not even, like, ‘This Elementalist build doesn’t use all the Attunements, focusing instead on just this one,’ but ‘this skillset does not exist in this build, despite the class being balanced around it.’ This includes, for the record, removing Weapon Swap because of Kits, just as it includes lacking weapon choices without Kits, and weakening weapons because of Kits existing.
I would use weapon-swapping, were the option available without having to use my Utility slots to do so – because, really, I just like other skills better. I don’t like a single Kit, and if playing a game means having to do something I don’t like just to not be hamstrung, I’ll deal with being hamstrung.
To put it another way: If Kits were something we could, for example, equip one of as Weapon Set #2, I would use them, and I wouldn’t have a problem with them – but instead, they’re competing for Utility-slot space with things I actually like and have an interest in using, while at the same time being the reason Engineer main-hand weapons are (as stated in the Class Balance Philosophy) weak, Engineer weapon choice severely lacking, Engineer weapon-swap entirely reliant on them, and so forth. Were they removed from a Utility slot, I’d use them – but, again, there’s just other skills I like better.
By the way, I would appreciate it if you wouldn’t be condescending because my opinion differs from yours. ‘Telling me how it is?’ Really? If that’s not supposed to be condescending, how is it supposed to be taken any other way? It’s almost as annoying as you trying to tell me what I do and do not want – which is, of course, the only reason I responded, as apparently I was unclear to begin with, having seemingly given the impression that I want to never switch weapons ever, rather than that I dislike the reliance on, and selective availability of, Kits.
I think I’ve made myself as clear as I’m going to get. This is going about as expected, so far. Didn’t even want to start this – if I did, I’d have made a thread about it instead, or brought it up in a way that wasn’t ‘so it’s not wise for us to have hammers or maces because of Runes of Perplexity, but it is wise for us to only have ranged weapon choices for our weapon slots?’ – but here we are.
Being able to not trigger reflection with mainhand weapons, not Kits, is something we should be able to do, but can’t.
The Engineer is balanced around having at least one Kit. If your gameplay experience is ruined because you can’t slot one kit to circumvent projectile hate, then I think it’s more on you to pick up literally any kit (except grenades) and proceed to attack through the effects.
See, this is just going to lead to this same, stupid circular crap where I go “We shouldn’t have to use Kits,” and you go “We’re balanced around them,” and I go “That’s stupid, why are we balanced around a completely optional set of skills,” and you go “That’s how it is, deal with it or play a different class,” going by my previous experiences having this same conversation, albeit with others.
I don’t want that conversation. Instead, I’m going to say that I disagree, and always have disagreed, with the Engineer being balanced in that way, would disagree with any class in any game being balanced in that way, and that I have no interest in debating the point, as I will not be persuaded into thinking that it’s fine, just as I am unlikely to persuade others into thinking that it’s not.
To this, I have to ask:
Is it wise for a class to have only ranged weapons without using their utility slots to acquire alternatives, leaving them hamstrung by enemies with Reflect, such as Earth Elementals in the Plains of Ashford? To have only two main-hand land weapons, and one water weapon, leaving them without options for a great many things unless they used their Utility skill slots to make up for the lack? These were issues before Perplexity was even a thought, and will continue to be issues until the Engineer is given actual choice in weapons.Hold up just a second, man. Engineer having only ranged weapons? I wish that were actually the case. First of all, I don’t count a ranged auto-attack as being proof of a weapon being range focused if all the other abilities are hugely range adverse. Don’t forget that the Rifle has 2 high-damage dealing attacks that aren’t affected by anti-projectile mechanics.
It actually wasn’t about ‘optimal use’ at all. Or even about what range a weapon is focused on. I also wasn’t looking at Kits, if you notice – they’re exactly what I meant by ‘using utility slots to acquire alternatives.’
It was about how the only main-hand, non-Utility weapons an Engineer has access to without using Kits have autoattacks – the only attack that will always be available, the one that gets used more often than anything else – that are projectiles. Two attacks aren’t projectiles? That’s great. They have cooldowns, so they don’t really help much if the enemy can provide reflection repeatedly, or if there are several enemies who can reflect.
For example, when I was first starting out with a Charr Engineer in the Plains of Ashford, I got into a scrap with an Earth Elemental before I’d ever unlocked a Utility skill. Using a Rifle at the time, when they used their Reflect bubble, I used the skills that aren’t projectiles, and killed it (I didn’t use the skills well, as it was my first day playing the game, but use them I did). I was proud of myself for precisely half a second before getting Crippled by several other nearby Elementals, who all used their reflect field before my skills came off cooldown, and I died an embarrassing death of not being able to attack or flee – in fact, it was one of my own attacks that killed me, when autoattack kicked in after I Overcharged Shot the Cripple off.
In short, optimal was not the point. Being able to not trigger reflection with mainhand weapons, not Kits, is something we should be able to do, but can’t.
Engineer is, similar to warrior, is a less “fantasy class” for want of a better word, as in they don’t have magic centric themes around skills. When anet were originally releasing information about the game they said that hammers and maces were going to have a focus on interrupts, which is true for mace for warrior, and hammer for for both warrior and guard.
With the popularity of perplexity on engineer is it wise to give them weapons that will provide more interrupts, as a mace shield engi could have possibly 4 interrupts on weapon skills alone, especially with the movement on shield 4 now.
And say you run 3 kit condi, with tool kit, bombs (big ol bomb for interupt) and elixir gun or nades, there arent many condis you are losing out on, especially with say, shrapnel and incendiary powder traits. And the extra interrupts should more than make up for the loss of concussive shot.I roam on my engi a lot and have a set of perplex gear, I know everyone, myself included wants new weapons, and a solid melee choice on the engi, and even though mace or hammer is the best choice thematically, I’m dubious about it for the reasoning I gave.
TL; DR mace or shield will give engis loads of interrupts which might be bad due to perplexity
To this, I have to ask:
Is it wise for a class to have only ranged weapons without using their utility slots to acquire alternatives, leaving them hamstrung by enemies with Reflect, such as Earth Elementals in the Plains of Ashford? To have only two main-hand land weapons, and one water weapon, leaving them without options for a great many things unless they used their Utility skill slots to make up for the lack? These were issues before Perplexity was even a thought, and will continue to be issues until the Engineer is given actual choice in weapons.
In addition, it’s quite simple to get an absurd amount of interrupts onto a build – Shield alone offers two (four, including both the thrown hit-dazes of Shield #5), Throw Mine offers one, Portable Battering Ram offers one, AED even offers one on its Toolbelt, and Slick Shoes can interrupt several enemies per use. Slap Supply Crate on there, and we’re already looking at something like nine interrupts. Would this work spectacularly in WvW or PvP? Probably not. Counterplay, and ICDs on the runeset, would keep it from being the ‘best’ build.
With only weapon skills and profession mechanics, Elementalist definitely has the edge in versatility. Engineer loses its mechanic entirely without utility skills, as well, due to Toolbelt skills being determined by Utilities.
Without profession mechanics? Got no idea.
I think the intent of this set is to be a set for all the people who want to use crit-proc conditions, so the crit damage isn’t really a big deal – it’s not about landing big crits, it’s about landing many of them, with lots of Condition Power to give them bite and Power to fill in the gaps of a hybrid condi/power build.
…of course, this niche has already been filled, if I remember correctly, and at this point the new gears are pretty much ‘so let’s just throw these stats out and see how they work.’
Primary nice thing about Slick Shoes buff: Toolbelt skill is now our fastest stunbreak in more ways than one, especially with points in Tools; I have 4 points, and it’s available every 25 seconds. Combined with the regular skill, it can create a reversal. With Shield skills, it’s especially useful for getting out of (or into) trouble.
“A lot of people have picked this class up, therefore it’s overpowered,” is all anybody’s going to get out of that post.
How about explaining what this ‘god mode’ is? It’ll more than likely lead to people telling you what you can do to deal with it.
I liked the capes in Guild Wars, especially since the art and animation teams got such a fluid “flow” to the fabric. (Actually, other game designers asked how it was done, back in the day!)
I imagine there would be challenges in incorporating capes, and naturally a cape would cover some of the armor pieces, which is a drawback when you’ve worked hard to get the whole “look” going on. As mentioned, it was brought up in the CDI, so that’s good.
Paradox — I’m curious. Why do you say “no capes?”
About the bit I bolded: So, cape covering some of the armor pieces is one of the things that might be involved in them not being implemented, huh?
Why do Engineers have Kit backpacks/Hobosacks, then? You know the ones – ruin a look the user’s tried hard to get, can’t even be customized, clip through or override existing back items many of which are rewards for meta-achievement completion…there’s a thread specifically about them on the Engineer boards. It’s been on, or near, the front page for most of its nearly two-year tenure, with more than a thousand posts.
For a game with such an emphasis on cosmetics, it’s honestly baffling that nothing’s been done about this. The balance concerns could easily be offset by the Standard Enemy Model system, or by implementing things like sound clips, boon badges, and better in-hand/weapon-style tells, but instead, this has been seemingly ignored for far too long.
In short: Either Capes and Hobosacks are bad things because they cover armor and ruin a ‘look,’ or there’s no problem with either.
We thought they’d listen after a year.
We thought they’d listen after a thousand replies.
Why not think they’ll listen after twenty-five pages?
…sorry, what? CC by Turrets without APT doesn’t – oh, it triggers stacks of Defiant? Gonna put my money on ‘the devs just have the thing checking against a list of damage/effect sources,’ and thus ’it’s not intentional, but they’re not likely to fix it.’
IMO confusion should proc on attunement & kit swapping, but not necessarily on weapon swap. Many effects trigger on attune and kit swaps, and for that reason i believe confusion should proc there.
thats my .02
thoughts?
Discuss.
First off: Pretty sure it does trigger on all swaps. And many traited dodges, and…honestly, it triggers on way too many things, in my opinion, or too many times on some skills (I think that’s something that happens, multiple triggers on one skill – might be thinking of Retaliation).
Secondly: Many effects, huh? Let’s examine that.
Kit Swapping: Kit Refinement, Speedy Kits, and Weapon-Swap Sigils will trigger when kits are swapped.
Attunement Swapping: Arcane Fury, Elemental Attunement, and Weapon-Swap Sigils will trigger when attunements are swapped. Several other traits change effect depending on attunement.
Weapon Swapping:
Warriors can trigger Versatile Rage and Power,
Rangers can trigger Tail Wind and Furious Grip,
and Thieves can trigger Quick Pockets,
all of these in addition to Weapon-Swap Sigils.
Guardian, Necromancer and Mesmer do not have swap-traits, as far as I can tell.
So, why would confusion make sense to proc on-swap for two classes, but not on another two? Warrior and Ranger get just as many bonuses.
The only differences between weapon swapping and Kit swapping, or Attunement swapping, are the following:
Engineers have a one-second cooldown on kit-swapping, can only have two sigils. Relative strength/weakness of weapons/kits is a discussion for another time.
Elementalists have a 13-second cooldown on going back to the last attunement, and a 1.635-second cooldown on all others (which does not override the ‘last attunement’ cooldown). They can trait to increase the cooldown rate by up to 30%. They can also only have two sigils.
Relative strength/weakness of weapons/attunements is a discussion for another time.
Weapon-Swapping has a cooldown of 9 seconds, and classes that can Weapon-Swap can have up to four sigils. Warrior is capable of reducing their weapon swap time to 4 seconds, or even less with Runes of the Warrior, but cannot trigger swap-sigils more often than their own ICD allows.
This really doesn’t seem like a worthwhile change, just…well, as others have said, something that seems to have a lot to do with ulterior motives.
This sounds like an idea that would end…if not badly, not the way it was intended to.
Engineer Kits are a lot like permanent Elementalist Conjures, except they can’t be shared and don’t give stat bonuses, after all.
Engineer is also the only other class without a Weapon Swap ability, because of these. The Engineer’s hand weapons (of which they have a total of four possible combinations, counting both on land and in water) were intentionally made weak for the same reason – the versatility that Kits provide.
In essence, the class is shaped by Kits, to the point that it feels like the only reason they aren’t the profession mechanic is because the Elementalist has Attunements.
All Engineers are given almost no weapon choice, weak hand weapons, and no weapon swap (not that we have much to swap to with our whole three on-land weapon sets and one water weapon), because of an entirely optional, overemphasized skill set.Do you want the Elementalist being nerfed into the ground because of the extra versatility permanent Conjures would provide? The balance team would add every Conjure they could to the skill bar, and then balance around the availability of the resulting forty-one or so skills.
engineer can receive swiftness on weapon/kit change. Also, Engi can get vigor whenever it gets swiftness.
Only if traited (and only when swapping to kits), and that combination’s seen nerfs to prevent permavigor.
Also, that’s with a maximum of thirty skills, if every slot that can have a kit has a kit (five weapon skills, twenty Kit skills, one Elite and four Toolbelts). With forty-one (twenty weapon skills, twenty Conjure skills, one Healing skill), the balance team would just straight-up go ham on everything the Elementalist has because some of them would go for full Conjure builds – starting with, going by the only other class with a similar permanent weapon-swap mechanic, ‘they don’t give bonus stats anymore, they don’t get to be shared,’ and ending with ‘and you know what, can we just make these the new Attunements and give them, sort of, subskills for their new profession mechanic? Maybe get rid of some of these weapons they can use, to make sure they use these things?’
To be clear, this isn’t a ‘woe is the Engineer,’ it’s a ‘this is what they do when they think some builds will have, or already have, too much versatility.’ They structure things around the availability of the ‘versatile’ builds, and if you don’t use the things they structure around, you’re stuck with what’s done because they’re available all the same.
So, I guess this is “Woe is the Engineer who doesn’t use Kits, are you absolutely sure you want to inflict reliance on a set of completely optional utility skills on your class, given Anet’s track record with very similar things?”
Back on topic dudes. I was hoping to hear more about the player’s opinions whether hobosacks are useful for a counter play, and suggestions that players can come up with as well.
Also, keep the thread bumped guys, until we finally influence the removal of the forementioned “problem”.
Based on the informal poll I did in the balance boards, I’m going to go with ’they’re not generally considered useful by the forum-going crowd.’
There’s already been plenty of suggestions regarding actually making awareness of them beneficial rather than ‘okay, they’ve got a bag, what kind is – oh, different bag now, great, and – hey, weren’t they just dropping bombs, when did they get a prybar’ – genuinely distinct models/looks for each Hobosack, providing boon badges like the Elementalist gets, sound clips to help inform transitions…
This sounds like an idea that would end…if not badly, not the way it was intended to.
Engineer Kits are a lot like permanent Elementalist Conjures, except they can’t be shared and don’t give stat bonuses, after all.
Engineer is also the only other class without a Weapon Swap ability, because of these. The Engineer’s hand weapons (of which they have a total of four possible combinations, counting both on land and in water) were intentionally made weak for the same reason – the versatility that Kits provide.
In essence, the class is shaped by Kits, to the point that it feels like the only reason they aren’t the profession mechanic is because the Elementalist has Attunements.
All Engineers are given almost no weapon choice, weak hand weapons, and no weapon swap (not that we have much to swap to with our whole three on-land weapon sets and one water weapon), because of an entirely optional, overemphasized skill set.
Do you want the Elementalist being nerfed into the ground because of the extra versatility permanent Conjures would provide? The balance team would add every Conjure they could to the skill bar, and then balance around the availability of the resulting forty-one or so skills.
It’s in the upcoming November patch. Hasn’t been implemented yet.
Seems like this ends up being said every time there’s a Ready Up with balance changes – “It’s in the upcoming patch, not this one that just happened. It hasn’t been implemented yet.”
Thread “ranger sword auto attack” number 8127462389.
Turn auto attacks off, and learn to evade with sword. They are not going to change it just because some new rangers find it frustrating.
To be fair, they’ve changed more because people couldn’t figure things out – that’s pretty much the basis of the entire NPE, after all.
This thread isn’t falling to the second page. Not happening.
Maybe we should start coming up with propaganda? Slap a hobosack on holiday mascots? Crying baby quaggans with the sacks on?
People have proposed having an icon for them for like 2 years. Nobody cared. One dev dude said he thought replacing them with a fanny pack was a good idea.
Don’t get your hopes up.
This is the kind of posts I was talking about. I understand it can be dissapointing when our wishes / requests are not emediatelly or never granted, but posts like this really discourages constructive discussion and probably developers themselves to charm in on it.
Yes. Constructive discussion when basically all that provides are hundreds of variations on “remove them” like “remove them and add icons”, “remove them when you enable your backpiece visibility”, “make a toggle button for them” etc.
It’s a commonly known fact they serve no purpose in the competitive scene, there has been a poll about that. Just bad design all around.What if in the recent gem conversion situation people would have just said “kk anet just reduce base number to 200gems” and called it a day? Constructive criticism doesn’t provide change. It provides a venting mechanism. Also there is literally nothing “constructive” when the answer is obvious.
As a side note, legendary effects are also a big issue. Also highly ignored.
But it’s cool guys cuz grouch totally mains an engi! He feels us! All dem feels!!
In addition to all this: The staff aren’t supposed to talk to us about things that are in progress, and they know they’re not going to be greeted with “Cool, thanks for letting us know” if they come out and go “Yeah, Hobosacks are always going to be there. Buy our back items! Good luck on getting Legendaries!”
So, either they’re not going to say anything because it’s against policy, or they’re not going to say anything because they don’t want the outcry. Pretty sure I’ve seen Whiteside make a candid post about getting frustrated with the playerbase, not being sure if the CDIs were worth it – I can’t imagine anyone being inclined to stick around if they told Engineers they weren’t doing anything about Hobosacks.
Thus, by process of deduction: They’re not going to say anything unless they have it ready for the next release. I welcome somebody with the authority to do so proving me wrong on this, but I’d lay money against it, if I were a gambling man.
On the subject of constructive/not constructive posts, though? We have a year-old thread, in which one of the forum members took it on themselves to design much better-looking, more distinct Kit back items, at one point. There’s really very little to say about the subject except:
- Engineers are, when played as Anet designed – with at least one Kit, bugger their eyes – prevented from enjoying/partaking in the cosmetics-driven endgame as much as other classes, especially in regards to Legendaries and the back items often given as meta-rewards. Anything earned is only able to be shown off out-of-combat or in short bursts.
but on the other hand, - Hobosacks are meant to be a tell, regardless of the fact that they’re flipped between rapidly, and that two of them are identical except for a hand-held item. Compare to Elementalist, an entire class based on essentially what Kits do (swap the weapon bar) – longer time between swaps, but swaps are indicated by sound clip, boon-bar badge, and small rings of effects around their wrists, which do not override Gauntlet skins.
I really don’t think there’s much else to say, besides “It would be really nice to know why Elementalists get boon badges, sound clips, and non-overriding bracelets, while Engineers get back-item overriding hobosacks.”
However, I don’t think weapons should be added for the sake of adding them. The new weapons should be introduced to fill a roll the class doesn’t have access to, and fixing old weapons should take priority if possible. Like the warrior doesn’t need a new ranged weapon, just make the rifle viable.
I really hope this doesn’t include Engineer Kits as ‘accessible roles,’ because…well, really, I just don’t like how emphasized Kits are, and would really like for Kitless builds to be more viable. Maybe some kind of ‘if no Kits are on the skill bar, this happens’ thing on weapons would help.
I believe incorporating the traits into the current system is probably extremely more difficult to work out then the weapons skills themselves. Doing so takes time, because it is likely a balancing nightmare.
I’m hoping that’s why this long-awaited thing is taking so long – working on balancing.
Wait, the kitten-filter prefers [furry little animal] over [opposite of soft]? Heh.
It’s the way it parses combinations of things for maximum censoring. “Hard,” and then “On,” such as in the phrase ‘working very kitten…’ well, it’d be nice to work very kitten – all comfy and cute and stuff.
They said they were working [the opposite of soft] on making every weapon available to every class…
…something like a year ago.
Edit for de-Kittening.
Yeah, this is something that’s been…a problem for Engineers since beta, pretty sure, and only gets emphasized more as time goes on and more back items are released. More Legendaries (or even more weapon choices, as that means more Engineer-usable Legendaries) will also exacerbate the problem of hideous, weapon and back-item overriding Kit bags.
There’s been no staff response on the matter for at least a year, either.
The devs had an idea – elementalist-style icons, and maybe the fanny pack thing (which would’ve inevitably been a stupid, half-finished, aesthetics-disrupting thing anyway, just as the original Hobosacks are).
They just never followed through with it and won’t so much as tell us if they’re working on it due to their Ivory Tower-esque communications policy – well, barring these two posts:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Problems-with-Engineers-and-Legendaries/page/3#post1824137
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/engineer/Hobo-Sacks-A-Terrible-Fashion-Statement/page/5#post2539351
Summation of the first: “Our resources are on wider-reaching projects like [things that mostly have been implemented already], but I totally feel ya, my main is an Engineer! Love to hear your ideas!”
For loving to hear our ideas, ArenaNet certainly didn’t love talking about them – not a single red post ever found its way to the thread after that.
Summation of the second: “Yeah, this bugs me, too. I’ll see what we can sneak in between projects like the ones Johanson mentioned.”
Turns out they could sneak absolutely nothing in, or so I’d assume given that it’s been ‘about a year.’ I’m not even sure Freist still works for Anet, or if he’s on the same team.
One way or another, I just don’t think Anet cares. I used to. Even used to think the game was going to go cool places – instead, we get bad writing, mostly temporary content, a proliferation of the very things this issue keeps us from enjoying, and stupid, stupid things like “Oh, that fun little thing that never had anything to do with the narrative doesn’t fit into the narrative, but taking a three-month break in the wake of an attack on the leader of a faction at a summit to discuss responding to the attacker totally does.”
At this point, I’m really doubting that it’s anything about balance that’s keeping them from getting rid of hobosacks. I’m not being particularly coherent, but that’s the point.
Definitely jerk behavior.
Don’t know if it’s something that’d be reportable – but that doesn’t mean you’re not a jerk for doing it. Your guildie can maybe pick up other gear for that segment, and/or retrait, but you’re wasting someone else’s time and making their day worse, as well as their game time less enjoyable, instead.
I recall making a thread basically polling the userbase on their opinion on whether Hobosacks were useful from a foe’s viewpoint. The response was pretty much “Nope. They switch too often, too fast, and there’s too much going on – besides, some of them look almost identical.”
Other than that, I don’t…think anybody really heads this ‘movement.’
All choosing any of them does is give you a particular skin, and a particular starting item that gives a very minor defensive boost.
They deleted it. It was something about trying to fine-tune a Turret build, I think? I didn’t even look at the build link, just closed the page when I saw the amount of exclamation points.
There were something like ten at the end of every line.
Edit: It actually looks like they’ve deleted every single post they’ve ever made. Hah.
Redesigning sPvP would be favorable, I think – with an objective like ‘hold the point,’ only some builds will be useful, let alone viable.
I proposed an idea that’s sort of like a competitive escort/capture the flag on the sPvP boards, and they seemed to like it…when they weren’t trying to turn it into GvG or just suggesting their own ideas instead of providing feedback. There was certainly a lack of people saying it wouldn’t be fun.
Idea basics: There’s a mobile objective, moving across a network of nodes, that stops from time to time and receives votes from the controlling group for which node to go to next. On the sidelines are artillery placements and NPC-spawning barracks, which can be captured to disable/enable them.
In theory, it would create uses for different types of builds and strategies, without disproportionately rewarding ‘and then I sat on the point for ten minutes.’
It still come down to 2 or 3 vs 1 him. Again since T engy is a specimen of bunker its no surprise. As far as I know I make lots of kills running that thing in Spvp and unless I get my turret destroyed by a pair of GS guard/warrior I generaly keep them all up at all time. Boon turrets are actualy a serious buff when party actualy help defend a point, Place them down anywhere there is a mass brawl and the whole team just became utherly beefed up.
Yeah, Turret Engineer makes a great bunker or support – so it’s pretty good for sPvP.
I’m actually starting to think that Turrets might need redesigned or replaced entirely, though; they’re in this position where they’re great for sPvP, but rubbish most other places, making them difficult to balance without ending up sending them off the deep end in one direction or the other.
Engineer:
- I’ve never seen a build make use of Slick Shoes.
- Mortar is useless.
- A.E.D. is largely useless
- Elixir X is basically never useful due to its randomness.
Slick Shoes just has way too long of a cooldown on both parts, as well as not actually giving the doubled speed it says it does, making it difficult to use except for things like increasing Rocket Boots flight distance.
Mortar, uh, yeah. It blows. The idea isn’t too bad – the Engineer actually creates an artillery emplacement, that can then be used by any ally – but the execution…well, it’s basically a Turret, with a minimum attack range, that needs a player to work.
Traited Grenade Kit even has better (or the same) range than it does, without its disadvantages.
AED can be cool, in gimmick builds, but it has a few issues like not being able to compete with the Healing Turret (except when you expect to go down quickly), the Heal Skill recharge trait triggering the first time you hit 25% HP regardless of whether the skill is on cooldown or not, and probably things like cast time that I, being a primarily PvE player, just don’t notice that much.
Elixir X…yeah, that’s exactly why I don’t use it. Besides, it’s a cut-and-paste of three other classes’ elites, counting Underwater – it’s a little irritating to me that what should be a major, class-or-build-defining thing is reduced to randomized mimicry.
Hobosacks, though. Seriously. Living Story often gives back items as rewards, Engineers using the most popular skillset can’t see them for much of their playtime, what’s the deal there? Kits also replace Legendaries when equipped, and that’s not something you pick up by following a checklist of meta-achievements. We have a thread about them that’s been our most consistent complaint for going on two years.
Might not be a balance issue, but it certainly isn’t just ‘wah, they’re ugly’ – they keep Engineers from really feeling rewarded when they get hard-to-get back items.
If you nerfed IP you would have to increase the damage of every weapon and skill the engie has to make up for it as offensive engie would not be possible. It would take a major rework.
It is so powerful, the best solution might be to make it a GM trait.
you wanna talk about weak weapon sets? let’s talk about thief ranged options, shall we?
would you like some thief shortbow maybe?
IP shouldn’t proc from any fart engi makes and should be moved to GM
The devs have outright stated that Engineer non-Kit weapons are intentionally weak, due to the presence of Kits, which is also why Engineers don’t have Weapon Swap without Kits. Or, come to think of it, Weapon Choice, as Engineers literally have three on-land weapons (Pistol, Shield, Rifle; Pistol can be wielded in Off-Hand) and one in-water choice. Incendiary Powder has always been a ‘well, this kind of makes up for it, right?’ option.
trading off the extra nade range
See, if you played the class, you’d know that the Grenadier trait doesn’t just add range – it adds an extra grenade to each Grenade Kit attack, and gives an extra grenade to Grenade Barrage, too.
Untraited Grenade Kit, as a result of having a trait that gives it a range buff and additional Grenade, is balanced in such a way that it’s not really worth using if you don’t have the Grenadier trait to begin with.
Wiki link: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Grenadieror shorter bomb fuses
You would also know that Short Fuse is only a Master trait, and thus is something that’s already often disregarded in favor of Incendiary Powder, which is, of course, currently a Master trait.
Wiki link: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Short_FuseYou should really at least check the wiki before trying to say what Engineers would or would not do, and what their options would or would not be.
That said, forcing a choice between Grenadier and Incendiary Powder would do a lot more than you think – one grants every Grenade Kit skill an additional chance to proc something, in addition to increasing damage, target cap (indirectly), and range.
The other grants every damaging attack a chance to inflict Burning, as long as it crits. That might actually be a tough decision to make.grenades are mostly for close distance aoe spam and you’ll hear every engineer in the game tell you how “easily avoidable” grenades are at range meaning the range increase will not be missed all that much when engineer already heavily relies on IP for ranged encounters with p/s or rifle in the first place, meaning the true value of the trait lies in the extra nade that it gives for more coverage when mindlessly throwing grenades at your feet.
then we have short fuse. guess what, the bomb kit variant of the engie 6/0/0/6/2 meta build wouldn’t be affected at all since it’s standard practice to take short fuse in the GM trait spot and IP in the master trait spot meaning all you’d be doing is switching the two’s places. either you knew this and are trying to discredit me by creating a strawman argument or you yourself don’t know your own profession; either option not being good for your credibility in the slightest.
Oh, the bomb kit variant might be less affected, largely because there’s not really a particularly attractive trait for it in Grandmaster – but it would affect at least one of the big builds, and that’s a start. If you were actually aware that Short Fuse was a Master trait, I apologize; your phrasing, and your apparent lack of awareness of the other part of Grenadier, gave me the impression that you weren’t.
Also, totally still going to point out that Grenadier does things besides increase Range, since you apparently missed that, given that you’re going right back to saying things about the range increase not being that important.
Grenade Kit is balanced around Grenadier for a reason, and that reason is more likely the extra grenade than the extra range.
I’m not even sure where you’re coming from with this ‘strawman’ thing; all I did was point out that you didn’t seem to realize that Grenadier is a massive deal for Grenade Kit, and that Incendiary Powder becoming a Grandmaster would actually do something about that. Strawman arguments tend to base themselves on hyperbolic interpretations of the others’ arguments, and I’m pretty sure I didn’t use any.
trading off the extra nade range
See, if you played the class, you’d know that the Grenadier trait doesn’t just add range – it adds an extra grenade to each Grenade Kit attack, and gives an extra grenade to Grenade Barrage, too.
Untraited Grenade Kit, as a result of having a trait that gives it a range buff and additional Grenade, is balanced in such a way that it’s not really worth using if you don’t have the Grenadier trait to begin with.
Wiki link: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Grenadier
or shorter bomb fuses
You would also know that Short Fuse is only a Master trait, and thus is something that’s already often disregarded in favor of Incendiary Powder, which is, of course, currently a Master trait.
Wiki link: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Short_Fuse
You should really at least check the wiki before trying to say what Engineers would or would not do, and what their options would or would not be.
That said, forcing a choice between Grenadier and Incendiary Powder would do a lot more than you think – one grants every Grenade Kit skill an additional chance to proc something, in addition to increasing damage, target cap (indirectly), and range.
The other grants every damaging attack a chance to inflict Burning, as long as it crits. That might actually be a tough decision to make.
It might have something to do with the healing turret’s fire rate of 3 seconds; if you place the turret, and activate the overcharge after the first ‘shot,’ it will wait until the next firing cycle.
engi itself isn’t OP in a lot of situation. It is fine in WvW and it is fine in PvE.
Certain specs are completely OP in PvP though. Turrets still need a big nerf. I also think grenades are too strong.
You know what? I’m not going to go on my ‘blame it on the game mode, which disproportionately rewards exactly what Turrets and Turret Builds are good for’ rant.
Instead, I’m going to suggest a ground-up rework of Turrets, because otherwise they’re going to perpetually be in this stupid bloody zone of ‘Too good at beginner sPvP, not very good anywhere else.’ Nerfing them because of one mode kills them everywhere else – but buffing them because of everywhere else has effects on the one mode where they aren’t crap. Splitting balance between PvP and PvE is something Anet has already stated they don’t want to do, so that’s not likely to happen, leaving ‘just scrap the set and make them anew’ floating there.
Anybody got any ideas? I’ve seen ‘they only fire when told to,’ ‘overcharges make them explode afterward,’ and a few others. Some of them focused on one interpretation of Turrets or another (disposable vs fortification, for example), but I’m not really sure Turrets as they are now can be adjusted in a way to not take incidental advantage of a stale game mode with limited, at best, options for success.
I think I’ve also seen at least one where they suggested making them into an ‘attachment’ weapon that basically functions as an additional Weapon Skill (Turret is used, Turret visibly equips onto shoulder or something), which could be interesting, or maybe replacing them with a Signet-like skillset based on the concept of Armor Mods.
Bit of detail on these ideas (and yes, these would involve some heavy-duty restructuring of traits):
- Additional Weapon Skill interpretation: Turret can be activated to be ‘equipped,’ lasts for a duration/number of attacks (much like Conjures or the Charrzooka), and then unequips (explosively, with Accelerant-Packed Turrets) automatically. A visual effect and buff icon should indicate that the user has a Turret ‘mounted.’ Charge count and cooldown would vary based on Turret.
Turrets would not attack automatically; instead, their fire rate would be converted into a cooldown, and the Utility slot would be used to activate the attack. The attacks would be similar to Surprise Shot, in that the user has no animation and can use them simultaneously with other attacks, but would have a ‘tell’ similar to current Overcharges (a glow and a sound effect, lasting for a short time, as well as a buff icon, just to make sure).
Overcharges would consume a number of the remaining ‘charges,’ and be set to the Toolbelt. Their effects would be identical to current overcharges, with the exception of Rifle Turret, which would fire until the Overcharge wore off. When Overcharges go on cooldown, the Toolbelt slot is replaced with either the ‘Undeployed’ Turret Toolbelt or Detonate (with a one-second cooldown, similar to Kit swap cooldowns).
When Turrets were not ‘equipped,’ the Toolbelt skills would remain just as they are now.
- Armor Mods interpretation: Each Turret is treated as a technological Signet, granting Passive effects or stat bonuses based on the Turret’s regular attacks, with the Active being akin to the Overcharge effect of the Turret, possibly affecting the user’s next attack. Toolbelts would remain as they are.
Cleansing Burst (Healing Turret Overcharge) is not scaling to Healing Power; easily tested with the new Combat Log, and similarly easily reproduced by increasing Healing Power.
Really, you picked Condition Removal as the thing the Engineers are complaining about? Sheesh, that’s not even something that’s been as consistently irritating as Hobosacks.
There is a minor trait that resets all your toolbar skills when you reach 25% hp, this trait is very nice to have, specially with long CD toolbelt skills like Elixer S, invisibility!
Said trait does share a bug with the trait that resets Heal Skill cooldown at the same point, of course – if your skills aren’t on cooldown when you hit 25%, they won’t reset if you go above 25% and then drop below it again.
A Turret Engineer, yeah, I know; for this I apologize in advance, but real Engineers use Turrets, practice area denial and harass the enemy.
We aren’t fast strikers; we are bulwarks, trappers and gauntlet creators.
Sure, ANet hasn’t really designed them for this, but regardless, I know what’s right even when its wrong.
But that’s what I want my Engineer to be when he grows up.
He’s only 33 at the moment with only one trait point to his name.
And I really hate kits, I despise the clunky nature of their design.
I envision an Engineer to be more Warhammer and less Mad Bomber:
http://warhammeronline.wikia.com/wiki/Engineer
Oh well, one can dream.
I played exclusivly engi in WHO 2 years and engi here is in fantastic state compare to that one:-) We were literaly only 4 engis on max pvp rank in whole game that how bad that class was designed and balanced – only true masochists played it.
Turrets there was just and only for build and destroy knockdown completly useless other way here you can use them in many ways – as damage, control, reflect and also in pure offensive SD builds for example.
Kits are great its just practice give them a chance:-)
Having given Kits a chance, I actually liked them less than when I was just going ‘Ugh, I don’t like how reliant we are on them.’ Dropping so many skills felt spammy, and compared to Turrets, kit-use is easy-mode for PvE.
I had that dream, too. Less ‘lunatic drunk with an alchemy lab,’ less ‘walking Ghostbusters!/TF2 reference,’ more ‘engineering.’
…of course, Turrets currently kind of suck (except as a starter sPvP spec), and so do Gadgets. Doesn’t make them less fun to use, and if you like them, use them.
20, 12, 6, 6, 5, 5, 7, 6, 6, 6, 6…that’s an odd spread. What’s with the two five-level intervals, and the seven-level interval right after, I wonder?
Oh, that one, with the trait that makes the Rifle Turret fire rockets and Rocket Turret fire Grenade Barrage.
You got one-shot by a Turret Bunker Engineer? Are you serious? You can’t be.
Oh, right, Healing Power. Always forget about the healing venom.