Guild Wars 2

IMO it’s just ridiculous how much a gimmicky cc/stab specs have an advantage on this map. I play a guard, and the canon room can be easily dominated by just having two fight there maybe even one if you are good enough. I don’t mind winning, but not like this. It’s fun but I can’t take this seriously.

I dislike it for tpvp. But it’s fun for hotjoins.

TheKidHenry.5732:

Count me in for NA! Sounds like loads of fun, where can I find your guys website (if you have one)? Message me or send me a guild invite in-game, Sai Sayre. Thanks!

We don’t have a website unfortunately, but hopefully that makes it easier! I can send you a guild invite in-game and introduce you to the crew. I am a little burnt out so I will get you familiar with my other NA leader to help you be able to get groups together more often.

Yep, never had a game mode where 1 person can luckily insta kill multiple people with very eassily accessible ccs.

SPESHAL.9106:

It’s a very creative map that puts a large emphasis on positioning and using skills/tactics that you don’t use on other maps.

Yes…you can get 1-shot by being in the wrong place at the wrong time…but it works both ways…so why complain.

It’s not like every map is like this one, so a little variety is nice. The peril of being 1-shot adds a different element than the other maps and keeps you on your toes.

In many ways, it requires a more diverse skill set. You need knowledge of your character, other characters, and positioning much more than normal.

Anytime you require players to use skills they haven’t used previously or skills they can’t master, then you will get complaining.

Any player, good or bad, can use stability and cc. That’s not competitive, that’s more like rock paper scissors. I don’t mind having to acquire new skillsets, but this map destroys the previous themes of having to fight more than rely on specific game changing opportunities to eliminate your foes. Let alone limiting the builds for this map.

Example: FPS, bad with a sniper? Too bad, we are forcing players to play a game mode with only snipers. Better yet, rocket launchers because anyone can use a rocket launcher.

Heizero.9183:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

google.3709:

People who like the map
They learnt to play the map

People who DON’T like the map
Havent learnt to play the map

it’s sad how people rather QQ than simply adapting their build (which is prob meta and copied off sombody else) to be more effective on the new map, everyone class has CC’s and it shouldn’t be too hard to understand not to fight by edges.

Skyhammer is amazing for bringing a different and fresh new playstyle which allows for creativity

I like theorycrafting to fight for all ocassions. I don’t like having to complete drop any non-cc builds for a map that occurs once every 4 rotations. I can adapt, sure, but forcing everyone to pick up styles that others prefer isn’t the best way to go. Same copy&paste method because there are only a certain amount of ccs you can bring (thieves scorpion wire, necro spectral wall or any fear really, guard hammer&shield&spiritweapon, engi big ole bomb, rifle, battering ram, mine, etc). It’s not that hard to figure out. It’s just a matter of landing it. It doesn’t promote any sort of personal style just an ‘elitist cc’ build and possibly a paranoid positioning behavior. I am not saying this map is bad for general pvp, but it’s shouldn’t be considered competitive in my opinion.

It’s not forcing you too. I still run the same build that i always run. i don’t even bring scorp wire, screw that lame skill. The only thing that has changed is my playstyle for the map.

It’s forcing me when the only way to win is to get heavy cc. if you aren’t bringing scorpion wire then kudos to you but you are hindering yourself from being able to gank people more often if you become keen at it. There are no hidden rules here, people play to win and will bring whatever they can to win in tpvp. Given that, heavy cc is the way to go no matter how you look at it. But I guess no one is forcing me to hit the queue button which is true. I’ll stop tpvping if this is the way they intend to go. Sorry for the backlash I guess, but something needed to be said about this imo.

edit: And your playstyle just happens to be more viable as well. Backcapping is always necessary. Bunkering nodes let alone fighting on nodes at all became less necessary due to the laser. CC became more necessary period.

google.3709:

People who like the map
They learnt to play the map

People who DON’T like the map
Havent learnt to play the map

it’s sad how people rather QQ than simply adapting their build (which is prob meta and copied off sombody else) to be more effective on the new map, everyone class has CC’s and it shouldn’t be too hard to understand not to fight by edges.

Skyhammer is amazing for bringing a different and fresh new playstyle which allows for creativity

I like theorycrafting to fight for all ocassions. I don’t like having to complete drop any non-cc builds for a map that occurs once every 4 rotations. I can adapt, sure, but forcing everyone to pick up styles that others prefer isn’t the best way to go. Same copy&paste method because there are only a certain amount of ccs you can bring (thieves scorpion wire, necro spectral wall or any fear really, guard hammer&shield&spiritweapon, engi big ole bomb, rifle, battering ram, mine, etc). It’s not that hard to figure out. It’s just a matter of landing it. It doesn’t promote any sort of personal style just an ‘elitist cc’ build and possibly a paranoid positioning behavior. I am not saying this map is bad for general pvp, but it shouldn’t be considered competitive in my opinion.

edit: I usually don’t complain too much about the metas, but this if the first time where I can’t think of a better way to play this map other than cc. A specific type of build shouldn’t be given that big of an advantage.

Mammoth.1975:

For those who haven’t been down there, if you survive the fall to ground level, the wurms hit for 12k+ and are invulnerable. I haven’t found any way back up except to suicide on them.

Yeah, unless you are a mesmer and preset a portal, it’s impossible.

Your first suggestions made my day xd

Heizero.9183:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Heizero.9183:

Errant Venture.9371:

Heizero.9183:

All i can say is if you are getting run off edges by a single fear then you were HORRIBLY out of position and earned your long way down.

How so? My options are to position myself against a wall (to guard against CC) but leave myself open to get reamed by massive AoE spam from staff necro/toolkit+bomb engi or move into open space and get knocked off ledgge/CCd on panel. Have you even played an offpoint? They’re MASSIVELY cramped compared to other maps.

I am a far node roamer thief. of course i play far nodes. that is ALL i play. i know exactly how they set up and i can say i have zero issues fighting on them.

Meh. I think thieves are really cheap on this map being able to backcap and/or gank even more easily. You can shadowstep outside of most kb range too.

“Oh you DO know how to play outside points and avoid unnecessary fights, to instead back-cap points for the sake of a team victory? Meh doesn’t matter thieves are cheap.” <—- that is kind of a kittenty way to leave things, mate.

I know that type of playstyle but I guess the lack of having someone in my group able to play like that specifically is making me think to myself “Why do I have to design a particular way to play to win at all?” Before, even with some slight non-standard team comps and builds, my group could stand a chance. Nowadays though, it’s like I have to conform to the cc meta (which I can definitely play) or go home. And I’m not a fan of forcing my team to play styles they don’t like. As a casual tpvper, it’s pretty annoying to have to do something in order to beat teams that wouldn’t stand a chance without the holes/edges. I don’t mind fighting thieves or getting bursted by one. But really not a fan of getting for surely 1-hit ko by one if my guard is down. Thieves can even backcap with people who lack cc if they can pull of the cheesy scorpion wire gank. They aren’t OP but they surely have an advantage on this map on par with cc heavy classes.

edit: Sure I’d like to be able to backcap if a team backcaps me, but why can’t I just have someone have a decent fighting chance against a mobile character who can make his presence unknown and have access to 1-ko floor panels. It’s not the fact that the thief can burst well, it’s the fact that they have absolute access to the insta death gank methodology on far points and can choose to do so whenever in stealth in addition to possibly burst a person down.

Achilles.2197:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Achilles.2197:

Littlefeather.8623:

butch.8136:

I’d love to see deathmatch implemented. I’d love to see it just because of the QQ on the forums a bit after the implementation.

Deathmatch, even more with gw2’s combat system, would get stale very soon.

Stale? You mean actual PvP, as in who can beat who 1v1? by all means sir, it would be the exact opposite.

Its fun to see small man teams in WvW roaming, and fun to play against 2-3 well coordinated players who compliment eachother at what they do, without being independant.

But that sir is not real PvP. Any one who can not rely soley on theirself is basically, not a skills PvPer’. My build is 1v1, so I roam solo sometimes in WvW or TPvP. I know some people are not built that way, and some can not play that way. But real PvP is about being able to get the W in a 1v1 without the help of your team mates. This is what defines real PvP’ers.

Current system is not focused on real PvP, current system tailors to people who cant 1v1, its kind of dummed down to be quet honest.

Please direct me to a successful game where it’s PvP is 1v1 oriented. Starcraft/LoL/DotA/GW1/WoW… they are all team based. For a reason. Are you saying those people are not true PvP’ers because they play with teams..?

Wait, Starcraft isn’t team based :O. They have teams but it’s still 1v1 (just an FYI).

Starcraft has 1v1. But it also has 2v2 / 3v3 / 4v4

I am aware, but working with some pro starcraft 2 players. You can’t really be competitive in more than 1v1. Maybe 2v2 is okay. But I guess you just meant pvp in general so nvm.

DXIEdge.2789:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

I think it’s valid. But the difference is whatever came first which is the old maps. Turning a 180 on the game maps can be interesting but not when it diverges from the previous map themes by a huge margin. Might as well called hotm—Heart of the Mini-Games if they want to introduce much different mechanics per map.

Then you better not be one of the people complaining about lack of game modes.

I am not, but I wouldn’t mind any more game modes for fun. But would like tpvp to be consistent.

Achilles.2197:

Littlefeather.8623:

butch.8136:

I’d love to see deathmatch implemented. I’d love to see it just because of the QQ on the forums a bit after the implementation.

Deathmatch, even more with gw2’s combat system, would get stale very soon.

Stale? You mean actual PvP, as in who can beat who 1v1? by all means sir, it would be the exact opposite.

Its fun to see small man teams in WvW roaming, and fun to play against 2-3 well coordinated players who compliment eachother at what they do, without being independant.

But that sir is not real PvP. Any one who can not rely soley on theirself is basically, not a skills PvPer’. My build is 1v1, so I roam solo sometimes in WvW or TPvP. I know some people are not built that way, and some can not play that way. But real PvP is about being able to get the W in a 1v1 without the help of your team mates. This is what defines real PvP’ers.

Current system is not focused on real PvP, current system tailors to people who cant 1v1, its kind of dummed down to be quet honest.

Please direct me to a successful game where it’s PvP is 1v1 oriented. Starcraft/LoL/DotA/GW1/WoW… they are all team based. For a reason. Are you saying those people are not true PvP’ers because they play with teams..?

Wait, Starcraft isn’t team based :O. They have teams but it’s still 1v1 (just an FYI).

butch.8136:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

butch.8136:

^Whats there to implement? You said you don’t want node capture nor secondary objectives. So it’s just our team kills your team.

Never said I didn’t want them, just I didn’t want it to determine my ability to win over actual combat o_o.

K, maybe I didn’t understand it then. But if it isn’t there to determine the outcame of the match, it becomes obsolete, no?

Well, for instance, the pve mob in Forest of Niflhel is a good secondary objective. It won’t determine the match but it’ll give you a slight edge. Other than that, winning actual fights matter. I guess I could do some brainstorming tonight but I just want something that will force players to fight instead of relying on keeping points capped. But some other objectives such as the treb and/or canon which provides more than a slight advantage is not very good in my opinion. It gives the other team too much of an advantage. and even if you can win it for the canon it can be easily won back by cc heavy classes and for the treb mesmers can insta repair using portal. You worry less about fights and more about securing secondary objectives which kind of obscures the pvp view of the game.

butch.8136:

^Whats there to implement? You said you don’t want node capture nor secondary objectives. So it’s just our team kills your team.

Never said I didn’t want them, just I didn’t want it to determine my ability to win over actual combat o_o.

Conan.8046:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Please give us a DeathMatch Mode soon. I want to win off my ability to fight as opposed to my ability to sneak onto a point or use secondary objectives to win.

Then the game becomes zerg vs zerg is that really more skilled? I am not sure.

Depends on how they implement it.

Heizero.9183:

Errant Venture.9371:

Heizero.9183:

All i can say is if you are getting run off edges by a single fear then you were HORRIBLY out of position and earned your long way down.

How so? My options are to position myself against a wall (to guard against CC) but leave myself open to get reamed by massive AoE spam from staff necro/toolkit+bomb engi or move into open space and get knocked off ledgge/CCd on panel. Have you even played an offpoint? They’re MASSIVELY cramped compared to other maps.

I am a far node roamer thief. of course i play far nodes. that is ALL i play. i know exactly how they set up and i can say i have zero issues fighting on them.

Meh. I think thieves are really cheap on this map being able to backcap and/or gank even more easily. You can shadowstep outside of most kb range too.

Bogy.2953:

Errant Venture.9371:

It’s a cheese map, Build Wars trumps Guild Wars. I.e. if you spec for kittentons of CC + fear you will do better than someone who is more talented and runs a build where the goal is to actuall kill another player or bunker the point.

It’s fine for hotjoin/having fun trolling people, but it’s an awful competitive map

so spamming aoe condis on point in all the other maps and having to spec for condi cleanse takes “skill” but speccing for cc ,stab, and dodging obvious knockbacks/positioning so you cant get knocked of platforms doesn’t take “skill” lol ok

Forget about balance, let’s just ask for a map that 1-hit kos everyone!

I think it’s valid. But the difference is whatever came first which is the old maps. Turning a 180 on the game maps can be interesting but not when it diverges from the previous map themes by a huge margin. Might as well called hotm—Heart of the Mini-Games if they want to introduce much different mechanics per map.

cymerdown.4103:

Ok, think about it this way. Pretend a pvp match is like a diving competition. Normal maps like Forest of Nifhel and Legacy of the Foefire are like grading the divers according to normal judging rules: may the best diver win. Skyhammer would be like telling the divers, “Ok, this time, we want you all to do the biggest belly-flop possible, and we’ll grade you on how loud the smack is when you hit the water.” That’s Skyhammer: one giant, fat, loud, wet belly-flop competition.

Nah, the map is ok, I just like making silly metaphors.

Not sure how diving competitions work but usually there are a variety of dives it seems. For the judges to favor a particular dive is unfair and should in your example be called a belly flop competition of which some divers may not have intended to sign up for. If you have a weakness in a belly-flop you should be able to make it up in other dives given that the belly-flopper is weak in the other dive types. In the case of the skyhammer though, it’s belly flop or go home.

Thieves should be fine getting engis and guards or at least have a good chance getting them, if they are caught off guard. Necros are a no no. A good necro will drop marks at the door (which are undodgeable I think) and then they’ll drop more marks right away (if they drop it ahead of time it’ll be off cd usually by the time of an ambush) and bam already hit with a bunch of marks and possibly condis trying to ambush a necro and they don’t even have to see you since the marks cover almost the entire canon room. Then comes fear spam and aoes to finish you off or at least scare you out of the room. Then place the marks again.

I’ve never heard of a competitive game that has such diverse maps that it forces certain playstyles. Sure, play-to-win, adjust, and win. But the game should be consistent in what type of competitive play it’s going for. I don’t try out for a competitive marathon team and then have it turn into a competitive triathalon.

Heizero.9183:

All i can say is if you are getting run off edges by a single fear then you were HORRIBLY out of position and earned your long way down.

Wouldn’t using a PvE environment to your advantage to avoid death be considered exploiting? Like the arch door in the canon room, iderno. You can’t really be ‘in’ position either with a pull gank.

sorrow.2364:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Circumstances shouldn’t be related to maps however. If a balance patch comes, sure, it makes sense to adjust instead of qqing. But having to totally change your playstyle due to a gimmicky map mechanic, that’s kind of ridiculous.

So it all goes down to the fact that you don’t want to adjust your playstyle…
Well, enough said.

Nope, I can adjust to it and lose mostly to thieves with the surprise gank. I don’t have problems playing a game I guess I have to play, but really don’t like the idea of it.

Pandabro.8743:

Errant Venture.9371:

That’s a BAD thing. Are we playing Guild Wars or Build Wars? You should play to beat the other team, by being better PLAYERS than them. You shouldn’t be able to win because your build/profession is better at spamming CCs to get a oneshot kill.

Part of being a better player is adjusting your build to the circumstances. If you wanted to play a game that wasn’t based around builds there are plenty of competitive FPS out there…

Circumstances shouldn’t be related to maps however. If a balance patch comes, sure, it makes sense to adjust instead of qqing. But having to totally change your playstyle due to a gimmicky map mechanic, that’s kind of ridiculous.

jportell.2197:

This map doesn’t fit the condition spam Meta so its bad? Please. Its the first map where you have to build for the map and not the opposing team. People are actually afraid of knockbacks instead of mildly annoyed. This alone is a good thing it adds importance to skills in all classes I even hear thieves are finding use for spike trap and trip wire. This map IS GOOD AND SHOULD BE IN TOURNAMENTS

Good thing condition heavy professions don’t have good cc skills…right?

Heizero.9183:

You people act like you are fighting on a tightrope. There is plenty of room for maneuverability.

I think most of the important fights happen on the canon. Which is pretty tight. Other places can be bunkered pretty easily with canon support. Or just have someone back cap while you kill everyone coming to the canon area.

Isaac.6041:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

I mean, I don’t think many people are doubting how well others are doing on the map. But it’s heavily favored on certain classes, just like spirit watch or capricorn. I mean, what’s the point of competitive play if you have to adjust your build + comp for certain maps. This shouldn’t be an RTS but more of an action game where it comes down to actual fight to the death skill not gimmicky 1-hit ko mechanics or having to rely on secondary objectives to win. You don’t even need to fight, you just need to be sneaky enough to land a cc.

O please, I didn’t have to adjust my build at all for this map. I’ve been using the same build I’ve been using for the other tournament maps and it works great.

That being said, if your build doesn’t work for this map then it probably wasn’t that great of a build to begin with or it wasn’t flexible enough for various PVP scenarios. Sounds like a lot of stubborn players that are were too comfortable with their old builds and don’t want to change it up to in order to win on this map.

You bring different skills for different situations. My build was already CC-heavy so it works fairly well on Skyhammer. For the WvW Jumping puzzle, you’d adjust your skills there as well and you don’t bring the same skills you would for open field combat. The amount of whine in this forum recently is so similar to all those complaints about players getting killed in the jumping puzzle.

You got knocked off a cliff? Well, guess what, you’re in a PVP zone. Learn to deal with it.

Open world combat has no relevance to tpvp because you HAVE to cap points. So you have to be in certain places. Strangely enough, those places have many spots that are edges or holes of which you can be cc’d into. By all means, I can adjust my build for ‘combat’ but adjusting for maps isn’t right. This is PvP not PvE. And yes, some of my builds actually are good or have done well, it’s just other maps don’t have holes you can be pushed into for a free win even if you are about to down them all they need is one good positioning and cc. I’m glad this map fits your playstyle, but not all players have a cc-heavy build. I guess I could stun break out of banish—-oh wait.

papaganoosh.7908:

Whilst I understand where you are coming from, why can’t it be a competitive map? Because it doesn’t fit into the standard Foefire/Forest/Khylo game type that came first? People always whine about wanting more game modes, well this is pretty close to a different game mode seeing as you will have to bring totally different builds for it.

I agree that you could look at it in the way that it is whoever has the most CC and Stability should win, but in my eyes that isn’t much different to if you boil down the current meta to “whoever brings the most Condi damage and peels”.

Obviously this is a very basic way at looking at it and to be honest I’m just trying to stimulate debate about the map as it really seems to split the community marmite style (love/hate).

edit – by levels I meant physical levels, not skill levels. just to clarify.

True, I guess the thing that gets me the most is when the cc/stability favored classes win the battle at canon, not only did they get a huge advantage in kills, but they have access to the skyhammer to nuke battles. Not a huge fan of giving huge bonuses to victors. tl;dr get rid of that OP secondary objective or make it dodgeable and not as worthwhile to use.

Mrbig.8019:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

It has a 50s cooldown. If you do it right away after the 45 second cd on Basalisk, then it probably won’t work.

that’s not what he’s saying.

The issue a whole different kind.

@OP

You forgot weapon swapping: if you weapon swap after using your elite, you won’t get any boon( condi removal), same if you use your healing skill ( no boon either).

Ah ok, didn’t realize that happened. Thanks for the insight.

papaganoosh.7908:

I don’t understand how people can hate on this map. Many levels to move along, new builds needed (stability and knockback heavy) a really crazily overpowered secondary mechanic that can change the game, I love it.

It’s not a competitive map. There aren’t many level to move along. Just bring all the cc and stability you can get. That’s it. Oh, and maybe stealth too.

I mean, I don’t think many people are doubting how well others are doing on the map. But it’s heavily favored on certain classes, just like spirit watch or capricorn. I mean, what’s the point of competitive play if you have to adjust your build + comp for certain maps. This shouldn’t be an RTS but more of an action game where it comes down to actual fight to the death skill not gimmicky 1-hit ko mechanics or having to rely on secondary objectives to win. You don’t even need to fight, you just need to be sneaky enough to land a cc.

Sounds like a LoL implementation with creep npcs :O but an interesting idea. Knowing Anet though, they’ll probably add the skyhammer in the middle of the map.

Heizero.9183:

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Heizero.9183:

As for numbers i played 6 matches and won 4. 3 of those matches were without cannon control. the other win admittedly we had total cannon control.

Guess they didn’t have a bunker and/or you guys did a good job keeping the guy at canon person busy.

we actually ran 2 bunkers, and had 1 constantly harassing cannon keeping them locked there for the majority of the match duration while the other bunker and our necro fought on point B. meanwhile me and the ele held our outside nodes. it worked out well overall

2 bunkers is all you need if you can keep the canon busy. Bunkers can kill people better than burst-dps players on this map—which is quite strange and very restricting.

Please give us a DeathMatch Mode soon. I want to win off my ability to fight as opposed to my ability to sneak onto a point or use secondary objectives to win.

Heizero.9183:

As for numbers i played 6 matches and won 4. 3 of those matches were without cannon control. the other win admittedly we had total cannon control.

Guess they didn’t have a bunker and/or you guys did a good job keeping the guy at canon person busy.

Not sure how skilled picking up a guard and spamming stability is. Also not sure how skilled chain fearing someone to death is (making necros have to do less work to win? sweet).

It has a 50s cooldown. If you do it right away after the 45 second cd on Basalisk, then it probably won’t work.

Julius.1094:

Mammoth.1975:

Julius.1094:

Mammoth.1975:

Heizero.9183:

I won a few actually because they constantly had 2-3 players guarding and firing cannon all game which made it very easy for me and the other roamer to keep control of outside nodes.

Numbers, not feelings.

Numbers from one player in regards to a “few matches” might as well be feelings given how unlikely they are to represent overall trends. The cannon can only fire at one spot at the time, and I’ve found that if i start moving right away and use a dodge, i got out of the area most of the time. If they’re heavily invested in holding cannon just spread out and ninja cap them using your greater on ground numbers and move out of the cannon. But yeah it’s a big advantage, so if the other team has it fight over it? I don’t see the problem.

The problem, for those too slow to pick it up last time I mentioned it, is that ‘stack stability and hug that kittening door harder’ is not tactical genius.

As far as numbers from one player, they’re better than numbers from none. I’ve seen the team who dominated at cannon lose once so far. I can’t imagine why that would be, the cannon is pretty bad right? 6s recharge on an unblockable undodgable 2s knockdown that does 10k damage and has a radius twice the size of a control point.

That’s cute how you only quoted half my post and left out the half where I said the claim counter knockbacks is just “hug that kittening door harder” is a very silly oversimplification of what is skillful positioning. I’m sorry someone outplayed you and knocked you out of the map a few times and hurt your feelings.

On and the cannon can’t be dodged because there is a ground animation for where it will hit and you can run out of it, if you can see that animation AND can dodge it on the spot good players will almost never get hit by it. I know I wouldn’t. Then why bother having it? It won’t be used.

Pulls would be the counter to that door-hugging. Might as well just stay above ground and let the thief cap it.

I find thieves the most annoying on Skyhammer due to the cheesy step on glass floor panel => scorpion wire. If timed right, you’ll get pulled before the glass breaks and there’s no way of telling their presence so it’s not like you can react with stability. Then due to the canon, thieves just backcap other points that the laser isn’t aimed at while other teammates get the skyhammer and owns any teamfights. No point in fighting at all now, just fight for the laser and backcap.

Seriously though, it’s grab point A, send someone like a guard or necro at canon. Send someone like a guard on B. Laser point B (who needs dps as a bunker when you got a 10k aoe helping you out?). Have a thief backcap everything. Have the other two defend laser or help the bunker guard at B. Win. Now I guess I should find some players who can play specific classes with specific builds for the next 3 days…or I can just wait it out to keep my sanity.

Would like a DM mode. Tired of people running away and backcapping to win. Fight like a man.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Funny map, but far away from being a competitive one.

^

cymerdown.4103:

If you put a Guardian on the cannon, he should bring Hallowed Ground with the 20% CD reduction trait. Another 13s of stab on a 64s CD means he can give himself stab through an entire Tornado.

Or just walk through the door.

I heard someone from Anet mentioning a punishment system coming in the future so it’s on the list. It has to be designed really well though to distinguish leavers from d/cers.

PS: I want your setup.

I think the healing cd is coming. I do like the other suggestions though especially the GM trait for ’can’t stop this’ (can’t interrupt movement skills)—it would fit under the image of a warrior being all aggressive.

Edit: I would like warrior’s GS 5 to be more like a dash through ability as opposed to a run-up and hit. Or maybe make it equivalent to bull’s charge except w/o the kd.

I tried zerker staff build the other day using signets and it’s pretty good for 80% tier play, but it is highly dependent on your team aka they need to be more bunkerish.

Aside from that note, I think staff just needs more for sure ways of doing damage. The AOEs are too easy to dodge without distraction from your teammates and the autoattacks are too slow. Increase autoattack speed or just make at least half of the spells have a more for sure way of landing hits, then the staff ele should be able to hold better ground. It’s weird that staff marks are much easier to land on necro than eles with the trait that increases the aoe radius.

Agreed with Xom. Playing a necro, I find that pressure—especially cc is the hardest to deal with since you have little access to stability unless you trait into it which may give you less results in the condi bursts that make them considered OP. Other than stability, they have doom on DS. Once you force that out of them, it’s a free cc combo game on them. Just don’t let them trap you in dat fear combo!

I don’t think it’s a matter of which build is better even though somehow that’s what this became. The original intention of this post is to give some build variations to people who are willing to try them out. Everyone gets provoked and I’m sure he does too. It’s hard to listen to anything anyone has to say when you feel like no one listens to you first even if the other party makes a point. Cause and effect. The only reason why I’m actually defending this post is because it’s his thread. Really tried of people always having to have some egotistical say on someone’s thread when it’s not the point of the thread at all. It’s pick-up, try out, feedback, Q&A.

Regardless of your bad experience Xom, this thread has good intentions, no point in trying to attack a person trying something. If you make a thread, and he attacks you; sure, I’ll be writing the same posts back at him.

I may have missed some things again, but looking back. It wasn’t much constructive criticism as it was ‘I know better, trust me’ which can’t be called criticism because you lack the experience of actually trying it out. At least in regards to Xaragon’s initial response even though he put it in a somewhat humble manner, it already started off as a ‘It won’t work’ as opposed to a ‘I tried it, but found some flaws’ which are two very different approaches (one is ignorant and one is more analytical and constructive).

I believe in constructive criticism, but I don’t believe in theoretical showdowns. As opposed to Altroll who I’m sure actually tried his builds (or I would hope). I don’t think many of the repliers actually tried them but instead looks at it in a theoretical view as opposed to a first-hand experience view. If you did try it, lay out the flaws you found, give feedback, and see what Mighty has to say in response, ideally it becomes a productive conversation and if the flaw is huge, I’m sure Mighty wouldn’t be that ignorant of it. Conversations takes two. If you come storming in with a strong opinion, might as well not post at all—because it won’t help either side learn anything.

Edit: And if you did try it out and still disagree, 1) don’t use it. 2) step through your thoughts on what flaws a specific build has. 3) shake hands. Not really that hard. What are we really fighting for here? Egos or newcomers? If it’s newcomers, they need to start somewhere, and even if they pick up builds that aren’t for them, I trust that they’ll learn like how any of us did.

I think what TheMightyAltroll is doing is a great job. No matter how you look at it, it’s an effort to help the community in understanding Necros better. This is his thread, and some players have actually enjoyed some of the builds he posted, so I don’t see why people must feel empowered to post hateful comments.

I am highly disappointed at the amount of top tier players who just can’t let their ego go, let alone how sensitive they can be. Let’s take words for example, meta to someones eyes may mean ‘This is the best build atm’ but to me from his title it was just something catchy to capture his list of builds and tie in with his in-game name. And that makes sense. If you guys are worried some newcomers will be mislead, let them try it first and learn first-hand that these builds aren’t viable. Most rookies are not going to learn anything by just copying ‘top-tier’ (really just fotm) builds. It takes a lot of variety to figure out what this class really is and understand truly what is viable and what isn’t.

Also, rank means nothing and getting on leaderboards means nothing. Top tier players are just fortunate enough to have connections to be able to build better skills by playing with and/or against better players but sometimes I feel like they do have tunnel vision because they’ll more than not play to win than try to make things work.

Criticism is okay, but try it out for yourself before making claims. Seriously tired of ‘Nuh-uh’ battles, but high respect to those who can tolerate this joke of a ‘top-tier’ community. The only ones atm that stand out as super nice is team AL. Keep up the good work Mighty.