Guild Wars 2

Huh? There’s no way to put what I’ve said in a more simplistic way, any attempt in doing so would be a completed waste of time..besides it’s more enjoyable to sit back and enjoy these kind of threads, in the end eles once again are the bane of thief/sin archetype, why even try when you see an ele and you’re on your own?…just stealth and run ^^

Smitten.3076:

Arheundel.6451:

Smitten.3076:

D/D Ele is not an incredibly difficult spec to play, it requires decent key mapping. Any player who’s worth his salt in WvW will be able to master a D/D Ele in a day or two after having it PLed to 80. There are plenty of difficult to play professions/builds out there … D/D Ele isn’t one of them. It’s going to get nerfed again, just like Thieves.

I have both of the offending toons, so this is coming from experience.

Nerf? lol
What they could possibly nerf on d/d that would make good eles less efficient?
There is nothing that will stop good eles from wrecking you, any weapon set will do, in a 8vs8 format I may opt to go d/d for RTL entirely but in a 5vs5 I can use any set and perform equally good even if under different roles.
If it is not d/d, it can be : staff, s/d, s/f, d/f…I’d still win

Bad players always hope for nerfs to bring the battle in their favour..but that never happen because simply you can’t nerf skills obtained through training

I play ( played ) a D/D Ele , they have to much mobility/escape. It’s going to get nerfed, by all means continue assuming though .. its amusing.

Lol ..you really don’t get it do you?
The nerfs that you and other are waiting for..will never come , because devs got no possible way to nerf personal skills, slighty changes on d/d will only drive away the current FOTM crowd ( who still are nothing compared to a well played ele, only baddies lose to FOTM eles), absolutely nothing will change for people who have been playing this profession for months, you can keep crying “wolf” from now till the end of times, the fact is : well played ele> all the other professions, change the set and the situation remain the same…good ele > all the rest

Elemental Arcana
- 180s CD

Accordingly to the element you’re using, you can activate a powerful elemental attack

1) Fire
-Flame Pillar= 3k base dmg, 6s burning+5s cripple PBAoE blast, 360 radius
2) Water
-Ice prison= 2k base dmg, 5s chilling+ 10 stacks of vulnerability for 20s, 1.5k base healing PBAoE, 360 radius
3) Air
-Lightning rage= 4k base dmg, 2s daze + 15s weakness, PBAoE
4) Earth
- Earth’s embrace= 2k base dmg, 10 stacks of bleeding for 20s + 5s protection, PBAoE and 360 range

Base dmg and base ehaling scale accordingly to your pow/heal/prec level

Smitten.3076:

D/D Ele is not an incredibly difficult spec to play, it requires decent key mapping. Any player who’s worth his salt in WvW will be able to master a D/D Ele in a day or two after having it PLed to 80. There are plenty of difficult to play professions/builds out there … D/D Ele isn’t one of them. It’s going to get nerfed again, just like Thieves.

I have both of the offending toons, so this is coming from experience.

Nerf? lol
What they could possibly nerf on d/d that would make good eles less efficient?
There is nothing that will stop good eles from wrecking you, any weapon set will do, in a 8vs8 format I may opt to go d/d for RTL entirely but in a 5vs5 I can use any set and perform equally good even if under different roles.
If it is not d/d, it can be : staff, s/d, s/f, d/f…I’d still win

Bad players always hope for nerfs to bring the battle in their favour..but that never happen because simply you can’t nerf skills obtained through training

XZERO.3014:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hh5zjK7ITpQ

Hello! this will answer your question. Also to all thieves who say “its cause thieves destroy noobs” i gotta tip for you, if you cant 2 shot people with heart seeker, remember you press 5 so you can flee for combo points.

Funny thing this is a d/d ele , I thought they were unbeatable XD

shrewd.5319:

Every tournament is the same setup. 2 elementalists, 2 guardians, 1 necro/mesmer/thief.

I’m done with this crap. Elementalists, and to a lesser extent guardians, need to be nerfed big time. The state of these two professions is absolutely ridiculous.

@Shrewd
The thief is the only profession in this game that requires skill. This is largely due to initiative.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fggh3blk2Gg
HAHAHAHAHA

Currently there is no way to discern the difference in animation between this really outrageous elite and an auto-attack, I find this really unfair compared to other professions ( outside of course thief who you can’t see while he use venom), you can’t even dodge supply crate initial stun once you see the engineer pulling its arm in the air…but a mesmer?..watch this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CtBwm9-YhU

No visual difference between the staff auto-attack and the elite, where other professions got 1-1.5s casting animation, with the most obvious of course being the ele with tornado( extremely UP elite by the way, I dare Anet to find an ele who in PvP use this elite)

Sil.4560:

Haha, it’s pretty hard to miss a point blank Phoenix, yes. x)

With s/d you can bring hell pain to your enemies, a soldier amuler s/d ele with common 10 stacks of might can deal like 3k dmg with dragons’ tooth alone, I use this combo when the enemy is close and I have 10 stacks of might min:

1)Dragon tooth – 2/3k dmg
2)Ring of fire – 1.5k dmg
3)Arcane wave -1.3k dmg
4)Phoenix -3k dmg
5)Fire grab -2.5k dmg
6) Shazam! 60-70% of your HP is gone! ( And I’ve still got arc lightning 2k dmg +lightning strike 1.5-2k dmg)

I use elemental surge with arcane shield and arcane wave for additional pain or you can drop arcane shiled for lightning flash and teleport with churning earth followed by the above combo.

….sad…really sad

Sil.4560:

Arheundel.6451:

stuffs

Yeah, mostly I was referring to the lower burst in that it is more difficult to land those sorts of moves against any human opponent who is actually awake. Pretty much anything works on NPCs. Love the burning and lightning spells though.

No no I was talking about real opponents, You can land dragon’s tooth and phoenix when the enemy is up close

That’s too restricted in my opinion, I’d love if they’d add 3 stacks of vulnerability( 6s duration) to it and add weakness to shatterstone ( increase CD to 6s)

Here the perfect solution:

- Ice shards= apply 3 stacks of vulnerability( one for shard) , 6s duration
-Shatterstone= 6s CD, 600 base dmg, 180 radius , 3s weakness

Thrashbarg.9820:

Scepter really shines with the #1 earth attack (among other things, really the only “bad” skill on scepter is fire #1).

Actually the worst scepter auto-attack is water, the dmg is sub-par, no condition or extra effect..truly pathetic

Huh? Scepter fire attacks are the most powerful attacks available to ele when they land, a balanced s/d build can reach like 13 stacks of might in 2s and deliver a 2-3k dmg dragon’s tooth followed by 3k phoenix, no crit dmg and no precision with an heavy armor target, from there you can follow with a 1.5-2k lightning strike.

It’s very hard to land dragon’s tooth/phoenix in PvP and you will have to either bait the enemy to get close where he can’t avoid phoenix and must double dodge to avoid dragon’s tooth or you use updraft+immobilize.

Regardless for team gameplay a s/d ele is devastating, you can walk along side your mele allies and supply 20+ stack of might, 5k aoe heal on demand, single target and multiple target blind, when you give 20+ stacks of might to that backstab thief or gs warrior is really gg, literally a s/d ele is a might stacking factory, your dmg get tripled against glass cannon builds ( shatter mesmer-BS thieves etc etc) even bunker guardians will start soon to receive your 2k arc-lightning ( max dmg after full channeling)

Kline.9561:

i will not stop saying this and people need to start asking for it too

if spvp is going to get the attention it needs from anet it needs to make money and become economically viable this was mentioned a bit in the state of the game stream
and its very true.

please anet make a tab in the cash shop for all the mist players

skins, weapons, graphical effects that display on weapons, heck you could sell the ability to use templates from gw1, come out with chest’s that can only be open with cash shop keys for the mists, i’m guaranteeing you people will want this look at other successful games that do this.

things take money to grow and mmo’s are expensive and a lot of times for a publisher it’s a big risk in profiting a developer studio to make an mmo.

so lets make pvp profitable

Cosmetic stuff should remain exclusive of the rewards system sorry, but a good idea would be to allows PvPers to obtain something in PvP which could be translated to gold, take this example:

- Glory essence
5k glory for one essence, 250 essences can be converted to 5G by using a special essence converter that can be bought only in the gemstore for 300 gems, something along this line
Let’s make PvP a profitable environment for PvErs so to attract more of them, in GW1 we had zkeys which were essential for PvPers in order to obtain moneys by selling them( ohh if I miss zkeys trade)

Mufa.1326:

Arheundel.6451:

I wonder how bad you must be to get hit by a guy charging at you from distance while visibly engulfed in flame(burning speed) or get hit by a guy standing still charging a skill for 4s(churning earth).
Huh? And where are the other “huge” aoe dmg?…I see you get killed by burning/bleed…how sad that people can’t even clean 2 conditions.

And what about the tons of snares? Ha I see that you’re talking about the single cripple skill a d/d ele got : ring of earth, again that 3s cripple at close distance is truly OP

Finally where are the extra dodge of the ele? I’m not a ranger XD..

Eh, eles are always missing the point with their ‘if you cannot dodge our burning speed, then you are bad’ nonsense.
Unfortunately for your inane response, it is very easy to dodge burning speed or any of your kitten on its own (if you look at it in isolation) (usually knockdown comes before burning speed so both need dodging or you need to waste stunbreak but anyway).
What you and ppl like you conveniently ignore is that ‘burning speed’ is NOT THE ONLY THING that needs to be dodged (there is SOOO much more).

You and your brethren apparently did not notice people do not have infinite dodges. Endurance regenerates at rate 5 per second, giving you about 1 dodge per 10 sec on average.

Let me spell the problem out for you since you are obviously clueless:

Let us see what needs dodging among d/d elementalist hits that hurts:
1. Burning speed (15s).
2. Earthquake. (45s)
3. updraft. (40s).
4. Magnetic grasp (12s) (if you eat this you sit immobilized for whatever comes next).
5. Churning earth (30s)
6. fire grab (45s)
7. frozen burst (15s) (or you are ‘chilling’ 3 sec, while elementalist screws you up)

….there is more but these are probably the most important ones…

Now, to dodge all of these (and some of them are not so easy to dodge like burning speed) you need dodge about every 3.1 seconds (calculate it yourself). That is about 3 times more dodges than normal endurance regeneration gives you, and that is without dodging any of your more ‘standard’ dmg. Can you grasp that concept… that you guys have way too much crap that needs to be dodged?? No…too difficult for you ppl….?

Such clueless ppl posting on forums….eh..please do not say ‘those are numbers, reality is different….’…there is simply not enough dodges….just stop with nonsense.

Oh dear god..now I see people complaining even about churning earth and fire grab…
I’ve just lost that little hope I had in humanity

-edit- you shouldn’t get so worked up anyway, you should watch out for when more people will learn how to play s/d better or find a non-supportive staff build…if you cry now against d/d eles when s/d hit 3-4x harder….I pray for your sanity

I must be playing this idiotic profession in a very fantastic way if I can still beat the pro players like you, but then again if you’re that pro why you lose? maybe you should give up on what you think is pro and play my idiotic profession so that you may improve your obvious lack of self-esteem

Mufa.1326:

Didn’t you hear ppl…the more different keys you press while watching grass grow, the more skill you have….if you press them really fast even more skill. If you macro them, you are genius.

Discussion between elementalists and mesmers is essentially about what constitutes skill:
1. Is skill defined as "executing pretty slowly very long rotation (pressing a lot of different keys over and over again at the rate of one every second or so on average).
OR
2. Is skill defined as “pressing few keys really fast (like make secondary binding of the ‘combo’ to 12345 and roll your finger over the keys)” in order to insta-blow-up-the-enemy-who-came-too-close. (I saw a guy calling rolling finger over 5 keys ‘reflex’…true story)…(another player who characterized himself as ‘top/pro’ told me “do you know how much skill this requires????” after he (prepatch) insta blew me up from 100% while sitting at 2% health himself (I stupidly stayed next to him for extra second thinking I will finish him off)…I do not know if he did 12345 really fast or was he genius who macro-ed it)

Both classes can pretty much ‘not give a kitten’ about what is going on around them (mesmer has to pay minimum amount of attention to ensure the enemy about to insta blow up is in the melee range when he executes ‘the combo’).

You be the judge…what is the correct definition…

Now that they gave us generous 0.25seconds to detect 25 stacks of vulnerability on ourselves before we get blown up, mesmers are crying all over forums. My god…hey

ANET, it would be helpful if you gave us ‘kitten’ BIG VISUAL CLUE that we are dazed so we can react faster with stunbreaker (snce we have 250ms before we are blown to kingdom come). Right now we are wasting time detecting we are dazed based on some small purple crap around our head (or do you want us to detect it among 10 other conditions mesmers craps on us? Take a clue from easier detectable knockdown (bull charge ..kitten HB is comming), or basilisk venom (kitten i am stone), generic stun (ups i cannot move)…….maybe if you turns us all …i dunno..all white or something… currently daze is by far the most difficult to detect because you keep moving, you try the skill, it does not work, then you process, oh i am dazed here comes ‘booooom’…so make it visually easily detectable since it is as dangerous as other you-cannot-use-your-skills-and-you-are-about-to-blow-up states….especially when fighting mesmer.

I’m speechless -_-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0

Ele•
We see the elementalist as the king of versatility. The skill ceiling for the Ele is exceptional, as the ability to leverage all four attunements at the right time is crucial for understanding the elemetnalist. The Ele boasts some of the best team support and control abilities in the game, as well as some great area of effect damage.

This is what a true developer think.

It’s better if you design something like thiss a “developer” like you should be able to come with something similar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uswzriFIf_k

I wonder how bad you must be to get hit by a guy charging at you from distance while visibly engulfed in flame(burning speed) or get hit by a guy standing still charging a skill for 4s(churning earth).
Huh? And where are the other “huge” aoe dmg?…I see you get killed by burning/bleed…how sad that people can’t even clean 2 conditions.

And what about the tons of snares? Ha I see that you’re talking about the single cripple skill a d/d ele got : ring of earth, again that 3s cripple at close distance is truly OP

Finally where are the extra dodge of the ele? I’m not a ranger XD..

Solori.6025:

Arheundel.6451:

In the end mesmers whining on GcD are completely out of touch with reality really…They even go that far and say that GcD on ele attunements are justified because..attunements are like weapon swap, lmao, that must be the reason why we’ve got 15s CD on attunement swap plus the 1s GCD

I remember when swapping attunements was on a 7 (?) second CD in beta…

ahh the good ole days..

The funny thing is the developers say that ele being a high skill cap profession, it’s an excellent candidate for GCD, therefore a skilled ele player should be perfectly able to execute a combo without the game doing it for you, you know? manual aiming-long delay-short radius ect ect.
Still this game got professions like mesmer where the game does 90% the job for them, auto-targeting, auto-positioning and large radius, and apparently a GCD on their main mechanic is not OK, and yet the ele got a 1s GCD on its main mechanic on top of 15s CD for each attunement.
To add even more fuel to the fire we can even state that an ele geared toward offense would still do less dmg then an equally offensive specced mesmer while stil having less survivability, isn’t it funny? Anet nerf a profession to the ground prior to the game release…everything is ok, now they FIX a bug for a profession and all hell break through

In the meantime, one stun breaker is enough to fool a thief burst, but against a mesmer..there is really no point in worrying if your stun breaker is up, because they’ve got a burst available every 10s, and thieves regardless of their initiative system they still rely on a 60s CD elite to do their combo.

Furthermore thieves are not invulnerable when doing their combo and there is another bug which need to be fixed by Anet staff mesmer can still use skills even if the enemy use kd on them, meaning a mesmer can use phase retreat as it’d be a stun breaker, fix it pls Anet

Here is my list:

1)Nerf crier = the QQ attack is OP, they can easily get 25 stack of Bullkitten that increase even more their QQ burst combo, furthemore the CD on the spawn rate of their threads is hilarious, I mean c’mon they can create 2-3 threads within a day,

2) Whiner = Slighty less irritating than the nerf crier, still the whine burst is over the top, a direct and quick burst with stealthed sarcasm, irritating class but they can be dealt with, by using the “ignore” defense skill

3) Noob= Only dangerous when in group, on his own the non sense burst he use it’s not OP, though the incredible amount of disinformation they have, can be very intimidating at first, unless you’re prepared you can get confused by their illusions and actually start to believe them

4) Drama Queen= It’s quite funny to deal with them, again they’re a menace in group but harmless on their own, not easy counter though, the “ignore” defense normally works, but the good ones will keep attacking with their lies without losing LoS, it’s a low skill cap class so their bullkitten burst is quite easy to dodge

For now I’ll be happy if the Nerf criers get a ….nerf, later we can deal with whiners and noobs

In the end mesmers whining on GcD are completely out of touch with reality really…They even go that far and say that GcD on ele attunements are justified because..attunements are like weapon swap, lmao, that must be the reason why we’ve got 15s CD on attunement swap plus the 1s GCD

felivear.1536:

Arheundel.6451:

EnRohbi.2187:

Arheundel.6451:

ilJumperMT.4871:

JonPeters.5630:

OneManArmy.5617:

Miku Lawrence.6329:

Jumper is pro, you can’t argue with him. l2keybind.

On topic, kitten – won’t be able to forcebug the 14k mind wracks and blame the game while people scream for exploit. 1/4 of a second is really nothing, minor change that will affect only the bug.

Funny thing, Anet didn’t fix the bug, they just made it impossible to execute. Always better to add something new instead of fixing the old kitten.

I think it’s a temporary bandaid until they can actually figure out what the problem is.
It seems they can’t identify what is causing it,so they added a preventing measure.
Better than doing nothing imo.

We have a winner! This was an especially bad problem so we did what we had to do given the resources we had to solve this while the studio was closed for the new year/holidays.

Jon

Can you kindly confirm that the .25 second GCD is temporary and will be removed when you fix the exploit?

Lol, without the 1s gcd , eles would be able to combo in a correct manner, you complain for a miserable 1/4 s delay on your main mechanic…..hey WHY ELES MUST BE ONLY ONES TO HAVE A GCD OF 1S ON THEIR MAIN MECHANIC?

Switching attunements is like switching your weaponset (Which has a much higher cd than 1 second, mind you), shattering an illusion is like using an attack.

Having a gcd on shatter skills is like having a gcd on your weapon skills.
How would you feel about that one?

Attunements are not weapon set..-_-
-they don’t change your range
-they don’t change the style
We change attunements because…that’s our main and only mechanic, shatters is your mechanic so the gcd is justified

just curious, if it’s not the same as weapon swapping then why everytime we switch attunements do we get the benefits of a weapon sigil that states it works on weapons swap?

Because this is easier than coding an alternative sigil which works only for attunements

EnRohbi.2187:

Arheundel.6451:

ilJumperMT.4871:

JonPeters.5630:

OneManArmy.5617:

Miku Lawrence.6329:

Jumper is pro, you can’t argue with him. l2keybind.

On topic, kitten – won’t be able to forcebug the 14k mind wracks and blame the game while people scream for exploit. 1/4 of a second is really nothing, minor change that will affect only the bug.

Funny thing, Anet didn’t fix the bug, they just made it impossible to execute. Always better to add something new instead of fixing the old kitten.

I think it’s a temporary bandaid until they can actually figure out what the problem is.
It seems they can’t identify what is causing it,so they added a preventing measure.
Better than doing nothing imo.

We have a winner! This was an especially bad problem so we did what we had to do given the resources we had to solve this while the studio was closed for the new year/holidays.

Jon

Can you kindly confirm that the .25 second GCD is temporary and will be removed when you fix the exploit?

Lol, without the 1s gcd , eles would be able to combo in a correct manner, you complain for a miserable 1/4 s delay on your main mechanic…..hey WHY ELES MUST BE ONLY ONES TO HAVE A GCD OF 1S ON THEIR MAIN MECHANIC?

Switching attunements is like switching your weaponset (Which has a much higher cd than 1 second, mind you), shattering an illusion is like using an attack.

Having a gcd on shatter skills is like having a gcd on your weapon skills.
How would you feel about that one?

Attunements are not weapon set..-_-
-they don’t change your range
-they don’t change the style
We change attunements because…that’s our main and only mechanic, shatters is your mechanic so the gcd is justified

ilJumperMT.4871:

JonPeters.5630:

OneManArmy.5617:

Miku Lawrence.6329:

Jumper is pro, you can’t argue with him. l2keybind.

On topic, kitten – won’t be able to forcebug the 14k mind wracks and blame the game while people scream for exploit. 1/4 of a second is really nothing, minor change that will affect only the bug.

Funny thing, Anet didn’t fix the bug, they just made it impossible to execute. Always better to add something new instead of fixing the old kitten.

I think it’s a temporary bandaid until they can actually figure out what the problem is.
It seems they can’t identify what is causing it,so they added a preventing measure.
Better than doing nothing imo.

We have a winner! This was an especially bad problem so we did what we had to do given the resources we had to solve this while the studio was closed for the new year/holidays.

Jon

Can you kindly confirm that the .25 second GCD is temporary and will be removed when you fix the exploit?

Lol, without the 1s gcd , eles would be able to combo in a correct manner, you complain for a miserable 1/4 s delay on your main mechanic…..hey WHY ELES MUST BE ONLY ONES TO HAVE A GCD OF 1S ON THEIR MAIN MECHANIC?

MACROS promotes banning by Anet XD

I’m lovin it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eBlD2N_AwgI

Here comes the ROFL COPTER!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYbYFYUGLJ4&list=LLwEeLddIWuEyduTaoIo3sNg

Mahanaxar.1386:

Elementalists have a very low skill floor and a high skill cap. To use them effectively you have to know the mechanics of the game rather well and having four attunements with 5 skills each was, for me at least, a bit overwhelming when I first created an ele alt before reading daphoenix’s guide. It’s a high learning curve but once mastered is EXTREMELY deadly. The skill requirement (and reward) alone make this by far my favorite class.

Pls..you still play heavy tank build….

Dardamaniac.1295:

its not a secret that Mesmers and Thieves are the best burst classes
Other classes have burst options but they are not so good and they dont have the escape mechanisms that Mesmers-Thieves have..
Its a mistake imo,you give in 2 classes the most awesome escape mechanism (stealth) and automatically they become the best burst classes but in the other hand you cant give em many other defensive skills cause this would make em the ONLY classes.
My main is Ranger and im playing a Mesmer also..
i found Mesmer easy mode,many escaping skills and dmg while in my Ranger when i become focused im dead
so this is why i cant run a burst build…Not to mention that the existance of pet makes the Ranger itself doing less dmg.How i can do a burst build since a percent of my dmg is done from my pet and my pet cant execute a burst combo

THANK YOU!
Finally an honest mesmer player( a miracle ^^)

selan.8354:

Maybe ele isn’t the right class for u, but eles are not underpowered at all our commander in wvsw is very very strong against all classes. check out his stream if you need help with ele.
http://www.youtube.com/user/JetstormTV?feature=watch

Your commander is using another tank build…..being limited to a single playstyle is UP to me

Daishi.6027:

Archaon.6245:

Pointing out the differences:

1 – A 5 HS chain with haste takes around 2s …so no, it can’t be called burst, it’s just a crap chain of fast attacks…and it’s just unuseful 90% times.

2 – Thief’s BS burst is SINGLE target, shatter is AoE with the same dmg and pretty much the same casting time. There’s a difference from bursting down one target and aoe bursting everyone on a point…

3 – BS needs steal traited with mug, so you can perform a BS combo every 45 secs, without steal you’re going to lose something like 3k+ so it’s not going to be effective, so mesmer has a way faster cd on his burst.

4 – After the combo a BS thief can’t do anything for those 45 secs, if he’s not downed already, mesmer can still use BF to go invulnerable, just for example, while dpsing…

Not talkin’ about overall survivability were a mesmer easily outperform a thief hands down.

So if you know how shatter works you should see some differences between BS and AoE macro shatter.

Overall survivabillity thief can go invis and run reset fight come back. Your mobility is your survivabillity.

In regards to our burst vs thief using AoE as a point is a non factor, it’s a point blank AoE that has almost nothing to contribute in big team fights. At worst a 2-3k spike in a random direction that more often than not is not going to splash Dmg anyone unless the enemies all stack on each other.

And as for speed, without being off c/ds mes needs to set up much more. To the point of requiring a weapon swap before being able to burst any, as well as waiting 45sec for a vaulnerbility shatter and that’s without waiting for any c/d that will pump to more clones like mirror.

TL;DR (or grammar is jumbled and kitten since I have not slept)
Thief can burst 1 guy as well as mes can but faster more efficient.
Mes’s AoE is really trash, and we take muuuuuuch longer to set up.
Thief has best survivabillity utilizing cloak + running away.

Rofl….
You’ve got a leap/immobilize/auto-targeting skill + 2s invulnerability + automatic pets and you’re telling me that mesmer require more “skills” than thieves?…LOLOLOLOL

Solori.6025:

Arheundel.6451:

DevilsGlare.7658:

0/10/0/30/30
Arc Wave + Blast + Mist form + Sig Heal
Divinity Runes, Sup Battle + Sup Bloodlust Sigils
Valk w/ Beserker Jewel

I feel as you’re trying to troll my friend..you use the exact same build that other eles use..but you still say that burst ele is viable while using trait lines common to tank builds.
I’ve thought you were running with 30/30/10/0/0 lol

LOL I think we have had one of those failure to communicate type of issue’s

He was talking about a build completly different from the one we have been talking about.

In the end he’s using the same build that every ele and his dog is using, a tank ele literally change just the amulet, the point remain..burst build not viable for eles as I was trying to say, as soon as you move away from earth/water..you get trashed

NaturalPortman.9562:

DevilsGlare.7658:

Natural, he’s using cleansing fire to apply the burn for his fire grab. The utilities and combo he’s talking about is all utilized for that one burst. Literally, like a warriors burst combo, or thieves.

that is silly. building around a rotation is silly imo.

LMAO that’s what thieves/warriors do or am I wrong?

Zenith.7301:

Stin.9781:

tqhx.2190:

Stin.9781:

Its ability to instagib any glass cannon at melee range withouth cast time is what makes it insane. Thief burst takes 1-2 seconds + and uses more resources on longer cooldown.

Wait you think someone thats a glass cannon, should have survivability, because i can assure you that i do not when i run with 15k health as a mesmer myself. In fact i feel that running glass cannon with any class, is basically asking to get downed without hesitation.

Also i dont see how the thieves resources are on a longer cooldown, diversion is 45s, which is what is used to throw up quick stacks. Other than that its just a regular old MW every 15s, and lower end dps in between all of this

Even mesmers basic health with Berserkers is 21k i think… so stop talking BS about 15k hp… mesmer burst at melee range has 0 cast time=0 avoidance possible. This hard counters every single melee burst or melee based balanced spec. If i cant go in melee on melee class cuz i will die in 1 instant cast combo how is it normal ?

This is idiotic. A mesmer in full berserker is just shy of 15k hp. You’d have to trait into 30 inspiration with a pvt set to even approach 21k hp.

And then you’d do no damage whatsoever. Because that’s what happens when you don’t run stats that synergize as well as pow/prec/critdmg.

Say what? A naked mesmer with full berseker set is already over 18k HP, don’t BS us dude!

DevilsGlare.7658:

0/10/0/30/30
Arc Wave + Blast + Mist form + Sig Heal
Divinity Runes, Sup Battle + Sup Bloodlust Sigils
Valk w/ Beserker Jewel

I feel as you’re trying to troll my friend..you use the exact same build that other eles use..but you still say that burst ele is viable while using trait lines common to tank builds.
I’ve thought you were running with 30/30/10/0/0 lol

Mrbig.8019:

Arheundel.6451:

Oni.5429:

I sure can! Here are a number of completely viable builds, obviously not all of them will make it at the top level of paids but you seem more concerned about hot join where all of these will do quite well.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?dDDPJAmWgMmMawwwgjDAjGm8SJjCdUeMDO2A;ToAA0CnoQygkAJLSOkkINgY+B
^
Dagger dagger spec which has good burst. While it’s burst is not thief level it makes up for it with good survivability and excellent roaming capablities. One of the best skirmishers for sure. EU don’t really use these eles in paids but alot of american players do. It also provides good support for your teams with the aura share.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fEEQJAoYhMmObyxygjDAkHm8SJjCdUeMDO2A;ToAA0CnoQygkAJLSOkkINgY+B
^Tankier version of the spec above

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fEEQJAoYhMmKbyRygjDAkHm8SJiCPUeMDO2A;ToAA0CnoQygkAJLSOkkINgY+B
^more dps heavy version

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fEEQJArYhMmObyx5gjDAEFmgiQhFOUeMDO2A;ToAA0CnoQygkAJLSOkkINgY+B

Scepter dagger valk spec, decent damage and burst

There are also some more cheesy(but potentially very dangerous builds) such as berseker staff ele which Royal legion in EU used to run quite alot, in terms of dps that build does far more than a thief ever could.

Ele used to be a common pick for high level play back in the days when they didnt even have mist form to escape stomps and they’ve continued to be a core pick in setups, it’s power spiked even higher when their dueling capacity got buffed due to the channeling heal buff and after that(also before that) many had already voiced concerns that elementalists were possibly too strong (when played correctly, which honestly isnt as hard as many try to make it out to be.). This was all BEFORE we found the immortal scepter dagger heal allies from 20% to 80% spec.

edit; thanks to zoose for having his builds openly available c:

In tournaments as long as they don’t target you it’s easy, you could even use a “support” thief and call it viable…but it doesn’t cut it, because other professions can do it better.

A burst ele in tournaments is not viable because its spike not only is far too obvious but also leave the ele defenseless against counterattack, it’s very easy to neutralize the burst as you can see it coming from miles away, if you plan to use a hit and run tactic, why don’t use a thief who can stealth and pick off target more reliably?

Tried already these “burst” builds , at high level of paid you simply get destroyed by thieves who can deal over 15k dmg in 2s with that level of toughness on you.
The meta has evolved and people don’t get caught anymore by the old “burst” ele, it’s the same reason you don’t see many 100b warrior any longer, mesmer and thieves can reliably go burst and get away with it…an ele can’t

lightning flash +earthquake -switch to fire + fire grab + arcane wave

ele bust is instant, you have the same time of a thief burst to react.

maybe building as a glass cannon and using something different than Rtl -updraft (that any decent player would dodge 95% of the time ) is a good idea

The base dmg of the ele has been nerfed to the ground, that rotation will not insta-kill anything outside another extremely squishy target, a thief/mesmer can still almost one -shot you despite having a target with over 2k toughness.
Also the rotation would be :
earthquake – lightning flash ( used mid cast of earthquake)- cleansing fire/ring of fire – fire grab, that’s a lot of work which use long CD skills and doesn’t assure you the death of the target but will leave you defenseless in most cases

Oni.5429:

I sure can! Here are a number of completely viable builds, obviously not all of them will make it at the top level of paids but you seem more concerned about hot join where all of these will do quite well.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fEEQJAoYhMmObyxygjDAkHm8SJjCdUeMDO2A;ToAA0CnoQygkAJLSOkkINgY+B
^
Dagger dagger spec which has good burst. While it’s burst is not thief level it makes up for it with good survivability and excellent roaming capablities. One of the best skirmishers for sure. EU don’t really use these eles in paids but alot of american players do. It also provides good support for your teams with the aura share.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fEEQJAoYhMmObyxygjDAkHm8SJjCdUeMDO2A;ToAA0CnoQygkAJLSOkkINgY+B
^Tankier version of the spec above

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fEEQJAoYhMmKbyRygjDAkHm8SJiCPUeMDO2A;ToAA0CnoQygkAJLSOkkINgY+B
^more dps heavy version

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fEEQJArYhMmObyx5gjDAEFmgiQhFOUeMDO2A;ToAA0CnoQygkAJLSOkkINgY+B

Scepter dagger valk spec, decent damage and burst

There are also some more cheesy(but potentially very dangerous builds) such as berseker staff ele which Royal legion in EU used to run quite alot, in terms of dps that build does far more than a thief ever could.

Ele used to be a common pick for high level play back in the days when they didnt even have mist form to escape stomps and they’ve continued to be a core pick in setups, it’s power spiked even higher when their dueling capacity got buffed due to the channeling heal buff and after that(also before that) many had already voiced concerns that elementalists were possibly too strong (when played correctly, which honestly isnt as hard as many try to make it out to be.). This was all BEFORE we found the immortal scepter dagger heal allies from 20% to 80% spec.

edit; thanks to zoose for having his builds openly available c:

In tournaments as long as they don’t target you it’s easy, you could even use a “support” thief and call it viable…but it doesn’t cut it, because other professions can do it better.

A burst ele in tournaments is not viable because its spike not only is far too obvious but also leave the ele defenseless against counterattack, it’s very easy to neutralize the burst as you can see it coming from miles away, if you plan to use a hit and run tactic, why don’t use a thief who can stealth and pick off target more reliably?

Tried already these “burst” builds , at high level of paid you simply get destroyed by thieves who can deal over 15k dmg in 2s with that level of toughness on you.
The meta has evolved and people don’t get caught anymore by the old “burst” ele, it’s the same reason you don’t see many 100b warrior any longer, mesmer and thieves can reliably go burst and get away with it…an ele can’t

NaturalPortman.9562:

Solori.6025:

shrewd.5319:

Elementalists don’t require a shred of skill

I think anyone who comes to this thread will stop here..

Ele’s need to get off their high horse. More buttons doesn’t mean harder, ele’s have simple rotations and there honestly is alot of room for mistakes seeing as they can just reset fights easily.

That being said, ele is easy to play but not as easy as some other classes.

You’re confusing yourself with d/d set, where you go and burning speed in the middle of a zerg, furthermore eles don’t reset fights at all…again you’re confusing yourself with the fact that you use full survival build and in that case there are professions that do an equal if not better job ( engineers, guardian)….go play a full glass cannon build and try to say again that eles can reset fight easily.

It’s not a matter of having different opinions , when a profession got over 80% of all its skills on manual aiming plus slow cast animation in many cases(scepter/staff), it’s clear that the profession require more skills compared to a profession where the majority of the skills are managed by the game itself with auto-targeting/positioning.

Furthermore nobody asked Anet to create such absurd disparity between professions and then come with an equally absurd statement :" The skill ceiling of the ele is exceptionall" rather than admitting complete design failure, it’s not by coincidence if almost all eles play d/d ( people have started using d/d even in PvE), rather the other weapon sets are badly designed, the theory behind them has never been fully analysed

Oni.5429:

Tank ele is pretty silly atm.

You know something is wrong when you press B before the start of a match, see that the enemy team does not have a thief and say ‘’Okay guys GG we’ve won, our ele will be able to go far without ever dying’’

You may doubt me on that but trust me, unless the enemy thief has double mesmer on point or mesmer+thief that ele is going to tank the 2v1 EASILY long enough for our team to win mid. Furthermore, anything but the mesmerthief are very unlikely to even get a kill on the ele, so there isnt even a punishment for the decap+attention you’ve wasted 2v1 on close.

This is by no means uncounterable since like I previously mentioned mesmer thief counters it pretty well but it’s still over the top, incredibly powerful in teamfights with uberheals, best roaming spec for sure and can also infinately tank a ton of different 2v1s

You say tanky ele is silly…can you come with something different?

Before starting take the following factors in consideration:
- A base HP of 10k
- No in-built defense mechanism( you’ve got nothing outside to guarentee your survivability unless you trait heavily in it)
- Lowest base armour
- Lowest base direct dmg after necro

Now go and make a full offensive ele like you’d do with a thief or warrior, then go hot join and come back with a video, because yeah tournament gameplay doesn’t count, to say :" ele glass cannon can work in a team" really doesn’t cut it because in no way a glass cannon ele can substitute a thief in terms of dmg, escape tools and efficiency

uwo.8197:

Right now, the majority of pug players are playing 0/10/0/30/30 or 0/0/10/30/30. Because of the insane amount of heals and condition removal, any half-decent elementalist can easily disregard positioning and uncoordinated focus.

Playing an elementalist as anything but the most tanky specs can be very punishing in pick ups, especially if there’s a large skill deficit between teams. I can’t speak to tournament play.

The problem is not that it’s hard to play a power ele..it’s impossible, as soon as you try to move away from water line and the corresponding vitality, you’ll get one-shotted by thieves.
Regardless of your thoughness level a thief is able to deal over 10k dmg with 2-3 hits done within 0.5-1s and here goes 90% of your HP bar for an ele, the current build for eles ( the only viable one in PvP) is direct cause of the outrageous burst of other professions

Oni.5429:

Metor was a necromancer.

Ty for the correction, Metor is the necro and Lowell the thief BS, still both were complainin about the same profession, their understanding of the mechanism behind this profession is limited at best, they were mostly whining about what works best against them, no suggestion of correction of anything..just plain whining

Basically this is what the meta should be for EU “top” players:
" I’m a thief, I can go stealth and one-shot you, you can’t have too much defense because then I can’t one-shot you and this down system is dumb, remove it, so I can go one-shot people and feel pro"

Ace of Spades.6325:

I apologize for my bad english

Java is from the US, they are 1 month behind in the meta, all the US teams got stomped when they came in EU.

Xeph is a cool guy, but i haven’t seen TP in paid for more than 1 month, and the meta changed a lot meanwhile.

And who is ‘’Vain?’’

It’s just my 2 cents, but i think that doing this kind of thing is pretty arrogant, at least win a lan event and prove that you’ve a deep knowledge of the meta before talking.

Maybe it’s just me thinking that it’s arrogant, it’s a subjective opinion, and i might be wrong. The main problem i have with this kind of things is that it might end up like the other time, where that guy Meteor said a bunch of stuffs that weren’t true.

I don’t think i need to explain why having a bunch of people, (that may or may not have the knowledge) talking to a big crowd, could mislead the community into believe in something that is wrong.

That Metor guy was a BS thief spammer ..and yes nobody liked what He said( ofc exept most thief players), it was mostly bullkitten regarding everything which counter his cheesy build, him along with Lowell were simply WHINING about a specific class, while the other guys were trying to bring the discussion to a more general point, in the end 90% of that Metor talk was all about how he wasn’t able to f1-2-2-2-f1-2 a decent ele….

Expansive.3716:

Yea I think it’s time to reinstate some of those nerfs that were given during and a little after release.

I think Anet was a bit too extreme on some of the professions in terms of the nerfs. Now that the game has been out for quite some time and everyone has become very familiar with the abilities of the professions, it would make sense to reintroduce some of the things taken out.

I think Anet doesn’t even have to do a full reinstating of some of those nerfs but just make some tweaks to the nerfs of the other professions and please work on stealth for the thief.

It’s pointless to allow other professions to burst as hard as a thief ( even though that may never be possible) unless you’ve got stealth..you’ll get one-shotted once your burst fail.
With stealth, professions like mesmer/thieves can go full offense with little problems, furthermore their burst is extremely easy to land and steadily available

urinfamousr.7631:

Spindelhalla.2139:

Ok, I’ll give a serious answer now. I have been playing since day 1, I play every day, usually many hours a day and I only do spvp, mostly free tournaments, some paids if I’m lucky enough to find a good party. In 4 months I never felt like being perma CC’ed. I also watch many top players streams and I never see someone perma CC’ed unless enemies focus on one target and correctly time their CCs which I think it’s fine since it takes effort from more than one player and even in this case it’s not like they can CC you forever. I played Dark age of camelot for many years and the pvp was great. It had immunities to CC, like if you was rooted then you couldn’t be rooted again for some time but the CCs on DAoC were way way longer than they are on GW2 so that immunity made sense. On GW2 CCs are relatively short and I really don’t see the necessity to put immunities to them.
It’s true some classes have easier access to stability but again, I think it’s normal. You usally invest in stability if you need it to properly fill your role, which usually is holding a point. A player who invests in stability, probably misses something else that some others have, it’s a matter of what and how you play, imo.
I see a bit of confusions: stuns and roots are not the same and I don’t think you can stunbreak out of roots. I think the annoying roots you are referring to are the ranger elite.. those are really annoying but they are an elite, they are meant to be powerfull like other elites are.
I’m not going to talk about p/p thief because I don’t like thieves and I don’t know well how the class works. Also, I don’t see many p/p thieves.
A coincidence just happened, while writing this I’m watching a guy streaming, a good player in a good team and he just complimented with his team mates for the nice chain CC. So yeah, chaining CC is possible but it’s nothing like being perma CC’ed forever and players have to cooperate to achieve it. Also, you are not alone, you can and should get help from your team mates who can give stability, buffs, auras, CC the enemies, peel you and support you in many ways.

if u have played spvp u sure now how easy it to to chain 3 cc’s and down a player as a d/d ele i have 2kd’s for 4 sec of down time easy enough to kill someone in 4 sec

As a d/d ele you’ve got a knockback and knockdown..one push away and the other pull you down..so mind to tell me where is the second kd? a ninja skill maybe?

Conncept.7638:

Arheundel.6451:

Conncept.7638:

We have our problems like every other class, most of ours being in the build versatility department, and it’s a fact the DPS on scepter is a bit low but not unplayable. It’ll be fixed eventually. But all in all the Ele isn’t underpowered in PvE and is the opposite of underpowered in PvP, while we have very few builds some of them are the best PvP builds there are.

DPS on scepter is by far the largest available do you realize it?

Do you have the math to back that up? Not trying to be insulting or contradictory, but I just saw a guy do the math on these very forums a few weeks ago and conclude that the scepter had the lowest DPS. I’ve looked for the thread and can’t find it unfortunately, but if you can prove otherwise (or know where someone has) I’d really like to see it.

Using this build : 0/20/10/20/20 with berseker amulet/valkyrie jewel and 6 divinity runes

Against heavy armour target
- Scepter :
1) Dragon’s tooth= 3k+ dmg
2) Phoenix = 3k+ dmg ( managing to land both hits)
3) Shatterstone = 800+ dmg
4) Lightning strike= 2k+ dmg
5) Arc lightning = 2k+ dmg
6) Stone shards = 1k+ dmg (direct dmg only)

-MH dagger
1) Dragon’s claw = 800+ dmg
2) Burning speed = 2k+ dmg
3) Dragon’s breath = 1.5k+ dmg ( direct dmg only)
4) Cone of cold = 2k+ dmg
5) Lightning whip = 1k+ dmg ( both hits)
6) Ring of earth = 1k+ dmg ( direct dmg only)

The burst with scepter is very rough and need loads of precision with it, that’s why I usually force people to get close by using arc lightning+lightning strike, at close distance you can’t miss with phoenix+dragon’s tooth resulting in your HP go down by over 50% with a single rotation.

Every profession can be built in a very defensive way ( yeah thief included) but nobody can hope to survive against 2 DECENT players, nobody..but against baddies? I can prob win 1vs2 using a glass cannon build or at the very least kill one of them

Conncept.7638:

We have our problems like every other class, most of ours being in the build versatility department, and it’s a fact the DPS on scepter is a bit low but not unplayable. It’ll be fixed eventually. But all in all the Ele isn’t underpowered in PvE and is the opposite of underpowered in PvP, while we have very few builds some of them are the best PvP builds there are.

DPS on scepter is by far the largest available do you realize it?

Pow/Prec/Tough amulet? Yes bro you can count on my vote…but I doubt that will ever happen , a PvP version of knight amulet pow/prec/tough would be far too OP, imagine a thief or mesmer with such amulet…wow it’d be game over for everybody