The necessity to go 30 in Arcane is a mith really, you can do well even with 10 only ..or even zero eventually, the problem is if you don’t want to go the crit chance way the fire traits are pretty awful as they force you to stay in fire to do anything
o.O the cooldown reduction is quite important for keeping your boons up.
Attuning to water and catnips are your only means of regeneration buff and the same with earth to protection to armor of earth.Honestly out can make do with 10 arcane but you are removing a lot of tankiness from the build o.O
Not really, in a 5vs5 format I nomally play this 0/20/20/20/10 with berserker amulet and s/d plus divinity runes, aburst oriented build doesn’t rely on fast attunement switching
The necessity to go 30 in Arcane is a mith really, you can do well even with 10 only ..or even zero eventually, the problem is if you don’t want to go the crit chance way the fire traits are pretty awful as they force you to stay in fire to do anything
I laugh at people who still bash at hot join, you’ve been crying for how long to get a 5vs5 mode…and look at it now, the 8vs8 zerg is still there, full servers againt the almost empty 5vs5 servers.
I call it hypocrisy, you want easy mode on everything and the first sign of loss or you rage quit…or come whine on the forums with OP this and OP that, the 5vs5 servers are there already..so why you keep kittening crying? and why the 5vs5 servers are so kittening empty?…lol
Sorry to bust your elitism tirade (like most pug farmers on some team) but the 5v5 servers have for the most part been taken over by the “leet duelers yo”. Finding a 5v5 server that’s actually playing the map, and not being farmed by some scrub “team” because they can’t be arsed to do paids like they should is akin to finding a 2 dollar bill attached to a 100 dollar bill underneath your door in the morning.
kitten
[img]http://i.imgur.com/85o9f.jpg[/img]
Never seen a team play hot join…sometimes I see two guys from some random PvE guild who still lose..but no PvP guild in hot join, baddies will create all sort of excuses to hide their lack of skill
I love sPvP.
Im not a try hard, I’m not a no-lifer, I’m only ranked in the mid 30’s because I mistakenly got a character to 80. We are only called these names because people are jealous.
Some of us are just born better, some of us start off at a higher level of skill and understanding than others. I see, talk with, and play with/against these people every day in sPvP. We are a niche community, and a lot of wvw/pve fanboys have a lot to complain about us, and with good reason. We make it hard.
I LOVE gw2 sPvP, and yeah its lacking in certain aspects and you would kind of expect more from the hype, but the quality of the pvp that is available is better than anywhere else I could go. Its not about the rewards, or the options, or diverse pvp content, what is already there promises an amazing future. That stuff comes in time.
Every single MMO that has tried to accomplish a solid pvp component has started off basic and expanded from there. I can wait, I’m patient. Patience is one of those things that makes US better.
:)
Love,
Nunganok[WMD] – Waste Management and Disposal – Recruiting sPvP’ers.
+1
I laugh at people who still bash at hot join, you’ve been crying for how long to get a 5vs5 mode…and look at it now, the 8vs8 zerg is still there, full servers againt the almost empty 5vs5 servers.
I call it hypocrisy, you want easy mode on everything and the first sign of loss or you rage quit…or come whine on the forums with OP this and OP that, the 5vs5 servers are there already..so why you keep kittening crying? and why the 5vs5 servers are so kittening empty?…lol
5v5 didn’t work because there is no deserter debuff. i have yet to see a game start/finish 5v5 because people can just afk, quit when losing, etc. If they did lock matches like every other mmo pvp out there that rewarded winning the most and gave you 30 min debuff if you quit 5v5 would be the most played. Add to the glory grind, and rewarding kills more than control/winning and people just go back to 8v8 since it rewards the most glory. Just more backward thinking by Anet.
There cannot be a deserter debuff because it’s hot join we’re talking about if you want to win that bad you go tournament, about free tournament they should simply remove the single join option and make it a full pre-made mode minus the tickets entrance.
-Add a search party option
-Better rewards for free tournaments
-As teams get better they can try to go paid
It sounds like you’re looking for a game that takes no skill and has no teamwork needed whatsoever. May I recommend Runescape for you?
aaaand gw2 takes skill to play? this is probably one of the easiest games ever,it just take 1 hand and a bit of awarness
This is the reason why nerf cry threads fill up this forum, too many people thinking GW2 is all about 1-2-3 spamming, then when baddies get their kitten served on a silver plate, they come whining on the forum :" whee whee , Anet nerf thief/ele/mesmer, I pressed 1-2-3 as soon as I saw a red name..but they didn’t die wtf?! nerf them omfg, Anet you can’t balance your game whee wheee"
Bunker staff ele is unkillable.
Me and some people I play with were messing around one day, one of them plays staff bunker ele on one of his alts, he decided to see if me (burst power necro) and a friend (GS warrior) could take down his ele. We were fighting for 2 or 3 minutes before we finally got him down, all 3 of us are good players and it just wouldnt be feasable to waste that much time in a game or to kill it solo.The reason you dont see it much anymore though is because its awkward to defend points with as it has to move around a lot.
Nice so you brought two people with limited/no poison application and limited hard ccs to take down a class the relies on healing and evasion to stay alive and you wonder why you had problems?
With your necro/warrior combo you will either correctly land your cc/burst and instantly drop the ele or he will seem unkillable if you are unable to coordinate your burst and ccs.
if it takes multiple people to coordinate their cc’s/burst just to kill 1 person then something is wrong there…
Wait so you’re complaining that a team oriented game requires teamwork?
He is complaining that even with two skilled players that have builds specifically designed to kill fast, a certain build can survive for a few minutes. If the two builds were slightly less damage orientated, he can hold out indefinitely. I know because we do it in tournaments all the time and it can easily keep 2-3 people busy for a while, usually a couple of minutes unless a GC thief hits a backstab.
One class shouldnt be able to do that, whether he can damage or not. Its WoW resto druids all over again.
Sure man…Personally I HAVE NEVER FACED a single team where an ele was able to hold us for 2-3 mins, with over 1000 tournaments played and 600+ won, I have yet to meet a single bunker ele who last 2-3 min against a coordinated attempt, for instance:
1) ele lack “perma” stability like a guardian
2) it requires huge knowledge of other professions skills to do even a single decent task
And these two are only 2 simple example and why there is no UNKILLABLE profession in this game, what make a profession “unkillable” is a couple of awful players who go against it.
A gs warrior and power necro? Are you having a laugh? Against somebody who spec for defense you bring a toon with obvious burst animation and another toon with easily dodgeable spike?
Hammer warrior and boon stripping necro..I bet your friend won’t last even 1 min, after he uses all of his cantrips is game over, sorry this is not a game where you win by button smashing your way to victory, if people would start using their brain in a different manner…there wouldn’t be so many comaplaints flying around
Bunker staff ele is unkillable.
Me and some people I play with were messing around one day, one of them plays staff bunker ele on one of his alts, he decided to see if me (burst power necro) and a friend (GS warrior) could take down his ele. We were fighting for 2 or 3 minutes before we finally got him down, all 3 of us are good players and it just wouldnt be feasable to waste that much time in a game or to kill it solo.The reason you dont see it much anymore though is because its awkward to defend points with as it has to move around a lot.
Nice so you brought two people with limited/no poison application and limited hard ccs to take down a class the relies on healing and evasion to stay alive and you wonder why you had problems?
With your necro/warrior combo you will either correctly land your cc/burst and instantly drop the ele or he will seem unkillable if you are unable to coordinate your burst and ccs.
if it takes multiple people to coordinate their cc’s/burst just to kill 1 person then something is wrong there…
Yes something is wrong, if you need two “brains” to figure out the enemy gameplay…gl to you
By the time you come back..your skills won’t be improved and you’ll most likely complain about something else, keep up the great work!
I laugh at people who still bash at hot join, you’ve been crying for how long to get a 5vs5 mode…and look at it now, the 8vs8 zerg is still there, full servers againt the almost empty 5vs5 servers.
I call it hypocrisy, you want easy mode on everything and the first sign of loss or you rage quit…or come whine on the forums with OP this and OP that, the 5vs5 servers are there already..so why you keep kittening crying? and why the 5vs5 servers are so kittening empty?…lol
Ladder is coming..if you can’t wait, uninstall and come back when it’s ready
Have a very good ele in my guild. When he double down bunkers its nearly impossible to beat him 1on1.
he can heal more than me so he outlasts. And has a shield effect that absords 3 attacks, and a mist form, to drag out the fight. Only if i land fortunate burst or manage to phsyce him into burning cds do i win.
So, anyone got some tips for how to build a thief for 1on1 vs ele bunkers.
1)You can start from making an ele and memorize all the animations that you need to be aware of, the CD and how traits works
2)You need to apply the right condition and the right time, spamming in the hope to accomplish something will bring you nowhere
3)You’re talking about an experienced ele as your friend apparently know how to time mist form/arcane shield so do not generalize, a freshly made ele is nowhere as difficult as your friend
4) Watch gameplay videos and learn
5) Be always aware of the range of each weapon and how to use it to your advantage
I don’t see how this is ever going to happen, when the match up system can’t even fill out a 5v5 for two games.
The 5vs5 is empty because people leave the moment they start losing and then they come to the forum to cry, with a 1vs1 mode many people would start whining even more than now :" profession X is OP, profession Y is too strong, profession J burst too much etc etc etc"…you can’t stop the whining, you simply can’t
I vote for GW2 to remain as it is…and not become a clone of WoW
Must love all these armchair developers who have never even written a single line of code in their entire life, pls I’m all ears on how to solve bugs within few days,.
Furthermore I can guarantee that for 90% of all complaints is just a L2P issue, played with all professions against all apparently OP professions, with enough knowledge about every single class, the game is not “garbage” as many want you to think.
The majority of those whining on the forums have purchased the game during Christmas..and already feel entitled in having an opinion, but pls feel free to go and design your personal great MMO…I can’t wait for it
P.S I may not be a software developer but I’d get annoyed if a clueless “customer” would start bashing on my product, especially when the same product has been praised by truly professional evaluation bodies…OP get off from the armchair and step down from the pedestal
This is a symptom of the burst/bunker issue that is plaguing PvP at the moment. It takes one of the stupidly high burst builds to counter one of the stupidly high healing builds.
I like that though. it helps add to the paper/rock/scissors element to it all, which to me, adds sooooo much more to the meta.
I could be totally off since im not in any high level tpvp yet. . .but i do enjoy that added layer of strategy/complexity/whatever you wanna call it
but sure, if you wanted to go 1v1 you’d need the silly high burst. focus fire works wonders though
In my mind a bunker should be a high health, high defense player, that takes a lot of time to kill. Fail to burst a bunker to death in GW2 and he resets the fight, and you have to start again from scratch. Instead of wearing him down, where everything you have done to him counts, his high healing nullifies it, meaning you wasted your time and cooldowns.
This is a bad way of doing it in my mind, as it requires co-ordinated teamwork (which isn’t going to happen in a pug) instead of just being able to blast away and eventually kill them.
It is because of this, that the sick burst exists. Add them both together, and people will complain because it simply isn’t any fun to fight against. 3 people being thwarted against a single player because they were pugging and unable to communicate and co-ordinate is bad design for a game that you want to market to the masses.
Over 3/4 of those fightning an ele got no clue of how an ele work, I don’t see why somebody who practice for months should lose to a bunch of newbs who randomly spamm buttons, because only somebody who practice for months can survive against an onslaught:
http://i.imgur.com/0NK8d.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/JktJS.jpg
Do you see the difference between an experienced ele and a new one? This is not a profession that you start playing today and faceroll people and people should realize that
Fire Grab is still an issue for me, sometime I am right in front of my target and it just “Missed”.
I am not sure if it was the latency but this is dumb. 50% of the time my Fire Grab is a fail. Only successful if I do it in front of a zerg. It will hit 2 guys.
From my tests it seems as the skill misses if you’re less than on step away from your target in whichever direction, normally to guarantee the hit I use is at the end of burning speed , I make sure the target receive the full dmg of burning speed before using Fire Grab
The influx of d/d Elementalists will subside once Staff gets fixed. Then the qq will follow suit.
When you have 3 D/D all smacking one person with updraft, and killing them before they have a chance to do anything, it makes people upset, and rightly so. One well played d/d alone is exceptional, but multiple can be downright maddening.
Of course I am only talking about a hotjoin environment, not a tournament setting.
When you have 3 of any profession can be maddening:
3 hammer warriors chaining kd
3 necros chaining fear/bleed/chill
3 engineer chainink knockbacks
3 thieves spamming HS
3 mesmer using shatter
etc etc…so let’s nerf all the professions until…wait there will be never an end, as long as as we talk about MMO than we’ll be dealing with nerf cry ..until the servers shut down, baddies will always complain..always, Anet know this like any other developer, what the official forum has become, was already predicted.
In the MMO history, official forums are always meant to be a collection of whining threads ….there is simply no end to nerf cry, you can’t force baddies to get better, they feel entitled to have their way always
On the contrary of you I haven’t got any ego problems, if somebody point me in the right direction I’d rather listen instead than trying to appear clever by attempting a come back..which in your case fail miserably.
The main reason why the ele sub-forum is not littered by “nerf XX profession” crap is because in general ele players have learnt the hard way how to adapt, players from other professions should realize that by now the button smashing strategy that was effective during the first 2 months…it’s no longer viable
And you haven’t been around long if you think the ele forum wasn’t full of derision and complaints for the past couple of months. The screams over the EA nerf(which was OP in its original state)were everywhere with people claiming it was the classes “only viable build” despite availability of D/D, and S/D. The ele trait lines are still very unintuitive which is probably why people got frustrated right away at the class, but doesn’t change the fact the class was always viable from day 1. That sub-forum alone probably turned off many hopefuls wishing to play the class.
Oh I have beel around long enough to know that ele has not received any substantial buff in the last 3 months and by substantial I mean complete overhaul of skills, but pls go and list any change that may increased by tenfold the efficiency of th ele I dare you to find any “mega” buff, if anything this profession along with the necro has received the most nerfs since BWE1, the profession is more or less exactly as it was in September..“the easy to kill profession”, but those complaining in frustation have mastered the profession now.
Do you know what it was the general comment always given to ele players?
It was around these line :" Ele is fine, just learn to play noob!", the funny thing is now those who were mocking ele players at start are asking for nerfs as apparently ele is OP, whining for the sake of whining is noobish, whining for the sake of self-improvment is good.
If you go and read the threads/post of people asking for nerfs in general on any profession, it seems as they’re complete masters of this game hence any defeat is only due to OP or broken skills, this means that as long as they beat you…it’s you who need to l2p but if you beat them…it’s because your profession is OP, sure sometimes there is the legitimate complaint but for most cases it’s just an ego problem
It seems you don’t know much more than FOTM eles for saying shocking aura works against anybody attacking you, for instance the aura doesn’t work if you attack ele from range, a smart opponent would switch to range..but oh well
Furthermore as long as you play hot join and win against random pugs in a zerg, there is really nothing to comment about..try your rotation against a r40+ during paid tournaments and then come back to meHaha, did I touch a nerve FOTM D/D ele? Using D/D and thinking you’re pro? I’m not going out of my way to put an anecdote as to the skill specifications on shocking aura when anyone who knows what the skill does knows how powerful it is especially in combination with powerful auras.
You were also pretty swift with your ad hominem against me even when I was debating the merits of the class. So lets please stop with pedantic “HUR, LAND DA COMBO ON DA PRO PLAYER AND DEN COME BAC TO ME”
D/D ele is a fun and difficult class to play, I’m not arguing that. I respect players like Qt Vain, who bring the build/weapon far beyond my capabilities. But you guys are kidding yourselves if don’t think D/D eles are one of the strongest builds in the game at the moment right up there with GC thieves(not quite Guardian and mesmer powerful though).
Do they need to be nerfed? I don’t think so, maybe minor tweaks at most. Other specs should be brought up to par with the capabilities of this build rather than outright nerfing a fun, viable spec to play. But pretty much all weaponsets for ele are viable, they just need the right team/build to support them.
On the contrary of you I haven’t got any ego problems, if somebody point me in the right direction I’d rather listen instead than trying to appear clever by attempting a come back..which in your case fail miserably.
I don’t care of what people think of me as fotm ele or not, but I can say this since Anet created the GW franchise I’ve been maining an ele, that’s to say I played this profession since GW1 but I won’t stay here listing all my Pvp accomplishments..because for what it matters I don’t care of other’s opinion.
Moving to GW2, as I’ve stated unless you know the weaknesses of a build/skill you shouldn’t really talk about powerful or not, like most skills in this game shocking aura is not that invincibility aura that many think it is, if timed right it can save you but again that it’s to be expected from experienced players and that means that d/d build perform well only in the hands of good players, if you change the weapon set..the end result would still be the same, baddies lose and pro ele win.
In general people who lose to specific build and playstyles, simply need to improve their own gameplay rather than blindy complain.
The main reason why the ele sub-forum is not littered by “nerf XX profession” crap is because in general ele players have learnt the hard way how to adapt, players from other professions should realize that by now the button smashing strategy that was effective during the first 2 months…it’s no longer viable
D/D Eles are definitely one of the strongest close range melee in the game at the moment. Their burst isn’t as high as other melee types, but the AOE pressure and sustain they can bring is pretty crazy.
I think the deadliest thing about them is simply how much they punish you being in their range. When I ran my D/D ele after launch(when you FoTM losers though ele was terrible, its always been a L2P issue), there wasn’t a single class I couldn’t bring down with my ele, especially if you run multiple cantrips. 90% percent uptime on protection, fury, and swiftness in combination with condi removal and crazy self regen I would often kill sub-optimal players with near full hp. Passive protections like shocking and frost aura are insanely punishing against anyone attacking an ele during that time. Seriously, shocking is borderline OP.
I ended up liking S/D more because D/D ends up feeling way too restrictive in the end. I don’t really agree with the “high skill cap”, but you end up being too reliant on skill rotations that it almost feels on rails. The only real agency I ever felt was whether or not I should use an off-hand cooldown or not given the long time for recharge. Its a fun class though.
It seems you don’t know much more than FOTM eles for saying shocking aura works against anybody attacking you, for instance the aura doesn’t work if you attack ele from range, a smart opponent would switch to range..but oh well
Furthermore as long as you play hot join and win against random pugs in a zerg, there is really nothing to comment about..try your rotation against a r40+ during paid tournaments and then come back to me
mesmer’s blurred frenzy autoface during channeling is nice..better nerf thief.
The skill itself is not the main cause for the huge burst dmg, mind wrack is the culprit, a mesmer with no clones will at most crit for 3-4k dmg with blurred frenzy and in case you’re able to dodge you’ll have a spare 2s to catch your breath and prepare your own burst
A lot of players hate to fight an enemy that has stealth abilities. The same goes for clones and illusions. I don’t think it’s just a matter of whether the stealth and illusion of abilities are balanced or not, because even if everything was perfectly balanced these complaining players would still prefer that the stealth and illusion abilities be taken out of the game.
Like I said, they simply don’t enjoy playing against those abilities. They would rather have clean fights. You can tell them to learn to predict how a thief is going to behave once he stealth’s or tell them to try to learn how to identify which clone to kill, but at the end of the day they just don’t enjoy learning how to play against those abilities. They would rather enjoy learning how to play against abilities that they feel offer them the most enjoyment during a pvp session.
I remember reading a post where someone said that he only played games with no thieves or Mesmer’s and at the sign of a thief or Mesmer he would just quit the game and try to find a new one. I’m not sure why but maybe each of us just have not only a different play style but also our personal taste for enemies to fight.
Maybe it’s because these complaining players take it personally when they assume that behind the Mesmer or the thief is a player who plays that class because he enjoys frustrating other players. Therefore we have a personality clash kind of like how the good guy does not like the bad guy and vice versa. For example the player who plays a warrior assumes that thief players are cowards in real life, and then Mesmer’s are not much better either when it comes to real life personality. The warrior player, being the antithesis of these personality types, wants to assert his dominance in the game over these other players whom he dislikes.
Nicely well thought can’t really disagree with you….still how much easy a game should be to let everybody pick it up fast and how hard should it be to maintain a certain level of challenge?
As a rule of thumb:
-People will complain if something is too easy
-People will complain if something is too hard
But balance is a subjective therefore you will never please everybody, still the game is designed in a way that everybody can chose his level of challenge.
And got other two questions now:
-If a player is just in for the fun like a casual player, why does he care that much to die in a sPvP match? You just there to have a laugh, to kill and be killed…so why the kitten?
- If a player is in for the win, why does he not practice and learn as much as he can before complaining?
It seems to me that even casual players these days are in for the win and yet they don’t want to put in the effort to learn, I mean somebody buy a game..and three days later come complain on the forum that this is OP and that is broken
Like i said in an other thread, the problem is the capping system which requires only 1 person to hold the shrine.
I did play Hero Battles at a very high level in Guild Wars 1 ( but the system was same in some of Heroes Ascent maps) and you generally had to watch map, see where the player was going/sending his heroes to anticipate and keep the shrine, etc…
If a player decided to gank some point then you either decided to not care ( overall you have other shrines) or to go yourself there with all your party, etc…Here, it’s mostly about just standing on a point with a very defensive build that’s all. Sure you could do the same on GW1, but you at least could recap shrines 2v1 and there were 4 shrines for 4 players ( 3 being heroes, not players), so it wasn’t so easy to do so ..
Here, you can’t even try some tactics ( push a point 5v2, go ninja on an other point, etc…) If it’s working on some matchs, it’s generally not against experienced players or guilds..
What you’re suggesting would increase the already present zerg mentality where a huge mob move from one point to the other, the current system allows for a more tactical approach to the usual cap point mode.
Tactics and builds are required to get rid of the player defending a node
It’s been stated many times over, fix the bugs, then look at balance. Also the way burst is used currently is an issue, mostly due to the fact that it has no ramp up time, it’s just push the buttons and wham, instant gratification.
I’m reminded of several other games, where you had procs to look for when going for burst, you lined up your cooldowns with a specific proc then went at it. The proc normally involved making something that was slow much much faster, and coupled with some cooldown gave you a huge burst of damage, normally not quite enough to beat someone, but enough to put hurt on them so that if they weren’t at full life they might well die. This element doesn’t work as well here since there is no dedicated healer. . . however some sort of proc or build up until you can pop some good damage would be far preferred over this current, see opponent unload. Is it outside reason to think they could adjust the damage in such a way to allow for even MORE powerful finishing AFTER a certain stimulus has taken place?
Furthermore, is it possible for them to vary the stimuli in such a way that it’s not the same for each profession? In theory: yes. It does, however, need to be something they would want to do in the first place, which at this point they have made no hint towards heading to such sophisticated methods of winning fights whether 1v1 or 1v2 or otherwise.
A simple example might be to give thieves a build up of a secondary resource that builds when they are in combat, at a certain threshold it allows them to do double damage for 5 seconds. Having done such, you could safely reduce their damage by 30% or there about without hugely reducing their damage in PvE. (ensuring of course that the uptime of the buff should be roughly often enough to equate to the same 30% damage lost. . . some math would be needed here but simply numbers I don’t have)
Another example might be that Mesmers Shatter damage gets a huge buff every 3rd Shatter with their normal shatter damage being reduced the rest of the time, to counter balance it their shatter could come off cooldown whenever they get to 3 clones! The burst isn’t as front loaded, doesn’t come quite as often, but allows a shatter mesmer to create situations in which they could shatter 3 to 4 times in a row in quick succession to set up that Burst Shatter.
These could all be based on the flavor of the profession, Warriors could get a cooldown reset on a weapon skill of their choice after having taken so many blows (not condition damage but actual landed attacks)
It’s a rough idea, but a very little tuning could make such an idea easily possible, or these could replace passive bonuses in the trait lines, or even be optional choices there.
I understand where you’re coming from , but we must remember that in case a ramp up system get introduced I don’t see how a burst build will survive long enough to reach the critical point, furthermore this would enhance even more the many defensive builds out there
I agree 100% but you will find no logic or support on these forums because the developers agree with the fanboys.
I’ve never seen a game that they gave a burst class re-stealth over and over again WHILE giving them the best mobility+highest dmg on easy mode attack spams.
They buff mesmers over and over again, giving them the best avoidance(clones) plus invis, plus insane dmg output.
Basically the guys making the game are absolutely crazy, biased, and have made this a funland for the classes they like while ignoring reality on every level.
Unless they fire the two guys driving pvp balance down a sheer faced cliff this game will continue to be the joke of modern pvp that is with the highest attition rate of a pvp community ever seen.
Unless this is done^ this game will be a cautionary tale of what not to do in a pvp enviroment, avoided like a leper colony by future pvp designers.
Well the game was advertised as a visual intense action MMO, reaction time come in huge play in this game and you need to train in it, but trust me once you do learn, to dodge incoming attacks will be quite easy.
Most times you’ll need to predict the enemy next move and memorize their attack pattern ( everybody use a different methodology more or less) once done that you’re basically doneDude i’m a rank 30 champion, i have won tournaments in games with 40x these players for real life cash and have been in the top ranked pvp guilds in real pvp games. so wth are you talking to with pvp advice?
I don’t get it, you win tournaments and you complain about thieves and mesmers, if anything in tournaments all the strenghts of the game are more easily identified.
Against an organized team the mesmer/thief burst become far too easy to counter, for example I go staff ele in tournament , from safe distance ( insert here troll face ^^), I just target the area where the mesmer keep summoning all his clones and then my thief ally finish the job, with a staff I can hit mesmers for 4k dmg with lightning surge like a laser, the things that make mesmer/thief apparently overly strong are the very reason for their quick downfall.
In spvp thief and mesmer are perceived as overly strong because of the confusion but really in a zerg fight you can get killed by anything ( E.G me as target of a combined guardian+warrior hammer, chill/fear necro and shatter mesmer), in a 1vs1 the situation is extremely balanced for all professions
(edited by Arheundel.6451)
I agree 100% but you will find no logic or support on these forums because the developers agree with the fanboys.
I’ve never seen a game that they gave a burst class re-stealth over and over again WHILE giving them the best mobility+highest dmg on easy mode attack spams.
They buff mesmers over and over again, giving them the best avoidance(clones) plus invis, plus insane dmg output.
Basically the guys making the game are absolutely crazy, biased, and have made this a funland for the classes they like while ignoring reality on every level.
Unless they fire the two guys driving pvp balance down a sheer faced cliff this game will continue to be the joke of modern pvp that is with the highest attition rate of a pvp community ever seen.
Unless this is done^ this game will be a cautionary tale of what not to do in a pvp enviroment, avoided like a leper colony by future pvp designers.
Well the game was advertised as a visual intense action MMO, reaction time come in huge play in this game and you need to train in it, but trust me once you do learn, to dodge incoming attacks will be quite easy.
Most times you’ll need to predict the enemy next move and memorize their attack pattern ( everybody use a different methodology more or less) once done that you’re basically done
-Elementalist= A profession that will attract loads of anger from new players, both the ones trying it and the ones going against it, again there are strong visual clues left by an ele when he use its defensive and offensive skills, like any other profession when mastered the ele can become your nightmare if you let them to.
Regarding balance, I see loads of complaints regarding defensive eles, for starter all ele heal skills/trait scale with the healing power amount, logically an ele investing in healing power will see his healing output increased by 50%, it’s not overly problematic to bring down an ele if you know their strenghts and weaknesses but simply button smashing at them will net you a slow and agonising death.
Anet need to improve the offensive skill in terms of efficiency rather than numbers where is not needed at all, also the offensive traits don’t take in consideration the low base HP of this profession, hence they don’t see much use, the drop in survival once investing in fire/air is huge.
The attempt with " Tempest Defense" was a good attempt, but the huge CD is a problem, the trait doesn’t give you any invulnerability only a defensive mechanism that works at close range not enough, nevertheless we need more staff like this in fire/air traits
So far these are the professions I have seen most complaints about, but pls let’s have everyone here putting down their analsys for the professions
(edited by Arheundel.6451)
Let’s try for once to have a civil conversation outside the constant nerfcry that this forum has become, try to be realistically objective, giving suggestions based solely on the knowlegde of the strenghts and weaknesses of your class and those you know.
For starter many whine threads are started by new players who in most cases rather than receive help from more experienced players they mostly receive biased comments that does nothing more than hurt them in the end as the new players don’t learn anything and will possibly leave the game in frustation.
Every new player out there should know this before trying any PvP/PvE mode:
- GW2 is a very visually intensive game, over 80% of informations are delivered in the form of visual clue and it’s up to you to precisely decipher them
- GW2 is not your average MMO where standing there in one spot will bring you good, constant re-positioning is essential, consider this as it would be an action MMO
- GW2 for most parts works like a FPS, where map awareness is fundamental, failure to realize the enemy team composition and movements on the map..will lead you to a quick death
- Learn to enjoy the game and learn from your defeats, you can’t always win, there is always someone better than you out there, to be proudful is ok..to be a complete kitten is not
Said so, this is my suggestions which would push GW2 toward a new meat , even though the current phase is not wrong, is simply what most people feel comfortable with given the current traits/skills balance.
-Thiefs = They need to remove the auto-face from HS then it’s ll be fine, without the auto-face unskilled thieves won’t be much of a threat anylonger, assuming you’re not unskilled as well; there is need to increase the reveal stealth timer by 2-3s for now at least while they remove the culling issue, after that they can go back to the original version. Better team support options are necessary if Anet want to see a team with thieves support and not simple burst, let them be strong offensive option on par with the burst options, other than this burst thieves are very fragile once you catch them so if you get killed by a thief in the middle of a zerg…well tough luck, try again and this time keep your eyes open
-Mesmers = It’s extremely painful for new players to go against a mesmer, this is one profession that leaves loads of visual clues before striking so you need your time to learn all of them ( hint- make one and play with it), as a general rule wasting dodges and stunbrake will get you killed fast; regarding any balance Anet need to get rid of the might stacking bug ( this bug still doesn’t increase the chances of bad mesmer players anyway) and give more team support options to this profession.
Burst mesmers are very fragile like burst thieves, once you learn where their teleport will land them next, it’s easy to follow their movements ( learn the movement path of phase retreat and wait for decoy to vanish); MoA form is infuriating I know but not broken ( Underwater I have been morphed in a tuna -_- dozen of times), portal and Time Warp are there to remind me why I have always hated mesmers since GW1 lol, mesmer is a profession made to kitten you off..and they do that in style, don’t rage just counter them with skillfull gameplay
I could never get into D/D. Putting myself that close to the action got me killed a lot. Scepter/Dagger made me much more comfortable, although it isn’t the best for PvP. I’m very experienced and quick with it, but I went up against a D/D bunker elementalist and couldn’t do much to him.
It was a long fight but my health bar was lower than his at all times until he killed me.
Just force him in using all his cantrips, wait for him to leave water and burst him down without using your interrupts, keep this pace until he starts to go in panic mode around 50% HP, after he leaves water again burst him down again along with interrupt and chill..bunker is now dead
If he has init left to spam HS, and you’ve blown all your cooldowns, then he was conserving his resources while you burned through yours and it wasn’t really the even duel you thought it was.
Have to agree with this, if the thief got enough ini left to spamm HS after you used all your def skills….you’ve been outplayed
But why we don’t see videos of people losing to these “uber unkillable eles”?
The only well known video is from WvWvW where a guy keep RTl in and out of a mob, don’t killing anything except the baddies who don’t cleanse the single burning conditiom.
Outside of that, all you see is baddies posting these threads with no real proof except their lol word, I faced dozen of these fotm eles with tank build..and I can beat them with a staff, to lose to a fotm ele you must be exceptioanlly bad and you should feel sorry for yourself
What exactly would thieves do if they didn’t have HS? Wouldn’t they just be useless? Mesmer should have portal nerfed/removed, other than that it’s perfectly fine.
You mean removing the auto-face/leap/finisher skill? Well maybe you’ll learn to play without relying on a broken skill…just maybe lol
The people that are saying Ele is OP, is off their rocker
Ele is by far not OP. There are people out there who have been dedicated to the ele profession since the launch of GW2 and they have worked hard to become competitive.
You don’t simply press 7-8 buttons and get a kill. The ele is a more methodical profession.
I’ve seen this before in another game I’ve played (Lost Saga, if you’ve heard of it) where the character Hazama (the game has a lot of cameo characters) is probably the most complained about character in the game. He’s not easy for newbies to use but at max potential he’s seen as completely outclassing every other character in the game, and is generally hated for it.
My point is, complainers don’t care how much effort it takes your character to be godly strong, they just care that you stomped them and will do whatever they can to prove that it wasn’t a fair fight in hopes that the bar will be lowered for them.
Quoted for much truth
Personally I like fighting Mesmers and Thieves, it is an interesting cat and mouse game trying to bait out certain skills. But of course you have to know what to be looking for. I think this is where most casual players find issues. They don’t go the extra mile to learn their opponent and in that case thieves and mesmers can be very frustrating to play against.
I guess their overabundance in hot join can get old pretty quickly though, but I avoid hot join unless I’m just testing a new build or something. The majority of the playerbase is in hot join though so this is where the devs have to balance catering to casuals and people who know how to play correctly.
You just called people who agree with OP a bunch of noobs who dont know how to play against thieves and mesmers.There is no way that game is actually better without cheap classes like mesmers and thieves?
Players like you are the reason why i dont like MMOs.You comment disgusts me, sir.You are too emotionally invested in an MMO.
This should be said also to people who go around and call people “noobs” if they complain about their chosen profession
Here’s my analysis on each signet and glyph( utilities, the healing ones are good as they are):
1) Signet of fire
-Active effect= Pointless as a single condition can be easily cleansed
-Passive effect= Too low crit chance bonus
-Cooldown= Reasonable
—My suggestion= Increase direct dmg to 1k dmg at 1600 Power, leave burning as it is; the passive effect should be 10% crit chance increase and reduce activation time by 1s
2)Signet of earth
-Active effect = quite useful, it’d be great if our burst build would get polished
-Passive effect= Good as it is, no complaints
-Coolddown=Reasonable
—No need to improve it
3)Signet of water
-Active effect = Good for me
-Passive effect= terrible, too dependant on luck
-Cooldown= Reasonable
—My suggestion= It should remove 2 conditions every 10s
4)Signet of air
-Active effect= Would change it, but the current one can become useful
-Passive effect= Great for a signets user
-Cooldown= Reasonable
—My suggestion= Change the active effect to a 2s daze, single target, the activation time is good for me( it’s less than signet of fire)
5)Glyph of lesser elementals
—My Suggestion= Barely useful at the first levels of PvE let alone PvP, the summoned elementals should really scale with the stats of the user and we should be able to use the special attack on command, if necros can it means the code already there and can be easily paste and copy in the glyph main code( in C++ is absurdely easy to do that) so no reason for Anet to deny us, I don’t find anything OP in allowing us to, for example, use the nova attack of the fire elemental, once evry 15-20s
6)Glyph of storms
—My Suggestion= Very useful and I used it both in PvE and PvP especially the earth version which is great, said so the dmg scale terribly and should be increased, furthermore secondary effects should be added to the fire and air version also; add cripple to the fire version and weakness to the air version, finally all elements except earth should be able to hit the targets more frequently( same problem as with meteor storm, which also suffer from this problem)
7)Glyph of renewal
— No comment= It’s as much useful as signet of undead and illusion of life
8) Glyph of elementals [elite]
—My Suggestion= same problem as with the lesser version, not only the elementals don’t scale in pow/tough/vit witht the user but also we cannot dictate when they gonna use their main attack/ability, again I don’t think would be OP to allow us to fully control our elementals and see them able to scale accordingly to our level of power( a fire elemental summoned by a glass cannon ele should means assured death for the enemy like an earth elemental summoned by a tank ele should means big troubles)
9) Glyph of elemental power
—My suggestion= it’s the most useless utility in the ele arsenal, a bad design choice which could be easily fixed by allowing the crit chance of each condition to scale with crit chance of the user, this would means that an ele would finally be able to fully utilise the rabid amulet ( prec/tough/cond), but if left as it is..no ele would ever use it
What are your thoughts regarding signets and glyphs? Would like to see any changes?
What do you guys think about people switching classes every time they think a class is OP.
Man it just make me sick. Idk.
Lock everyone to 1 or 2 class for 1 year befor can change, or pay a 200 gold fee to be able to switch.
And make that your lvl in Pve is your lvl in Pvp
ranks you get in Pvp.This is like a desiese.
1st month (Everyone thinks Thief is OP) +35% thiefs players
2th month( everyone thinks Ranger is OP)-20%Thiefs players +30% ranger players
And so on………..
This will never stop. There will always be guys that will complain about Op about someclass.I really don’t see a solution to this dhou.
Once I read a very good coment to explain the situation about OP.“Dear -ArenaNet-,
Paper is over powered, Scissors are ok.
Sincerely,
Rock”
The truly skilled player always stick to 1-2 professions and truly master them, the bad players simply switch to the FOTM profession and call themself “pro”
I cannot think of a better solution which would please all crowds from the most disgrunted to the most “elitist” thief out there.
There must be something which force tactical decisions on the average thief player, the idea of failing to kill the target should be something to strongly consider and have appropiate counter-measures in that regard.
Right now the 3s debuff is simply not enough for the target, who did manage to avoid the burst, to retaliate accordingly and punish the thief who failed the attack.
It’s time for the thief class to fully realize the importance of toughness and the consequence of not having any, a 10s debuff should be more than enough to “punish” the average thief, the skilled ones should still be able to avoid dmg for that 10s…after all they’re skilled right?!
The increase in debuff timer would solve any culling and lag problems too , really Anet what are you waiting for?
Have seen a few comments lately about people going into s/tpvp matches where there are no thieves or mesmers and reporting back that it was a lot more fun.
Just wanted to say that I have recently played a few matches in a row where this also happened to me and…wow. Just wow. Suddenly instead of frustration and rage, I was having fun. The matches were all really, really close. Fights were an absolute blast. Everyone enjoyed themselves. I was killed quite a few times but the thing is…I didn’t care. When I was killed, I was killed fair and square and it always felt like I was outplayed and outskilled. When I landed a kill, it was for the same reason.
From now on, I am going to self-select my matches so I can continue to enjoy myself in pvp. If there is more than one of either class, I’m just going to leave the map and find another. It may take a while to find a map, but it’s worth it so I can enjoy the game again.
TL:DR. Hot join can be fun, you just have to do the balancing yourself. Avoid matches containing thieves and mesmers and you can start enjoying yourself in pvp again.
Fighting a mesmer is not a problem, actually it’s a welcome challenge because if you lose is because you’ve outplayed, you can see a mesmer coming and you can see through its tricks.
But thieves are something else, nothing but a bunch of cowards running around in stealth ( shadow refuge, CnD, hide in shadows etc etc), the “high rank” thieves normally sit behind a zerg and call target..then go stealth..and “take credit” for the kill after backstabbing to death the target…after that they really think to be pro..amusing.
The stealth mechanism is really broken and should be removed, substituted with something else like the shadow step from GW1.
It takes 0 skills to go stealth while wearing full berseker armour and then attacking somedoby from the back when he’s fightning somebody else ( because of course cowards will never face you when alone).
At the very least the stealth debuff should be something like 7-10s so thiefs can get punished for failing to kill a target
if the main purpose of pvp (and esport lol) of this game is 5v5, it must be balanced around 5v5 environment. it doesnt mean that 5v5 = teamfight 24/7, but it means that some class, some skill, some trait works better in a “not-1v1” fight
Yes it’s ok to have trait/skills that works better in team fight, but you can’t always hope to stay in the back spamming aoe, sometimes you need to get your hands dirty in order to stay alive, but take a look at the ele staff, all attack skills are aoe and therefore slow to cast , therefore you become useless in a 1vs1 situation
Totally agree with the OP, I can talk for the elementalist profession in particular, the incredible disparity between the number of d/d users and staff/scepter users is astonishing.
It’s much easier to hide obvious imbalances behind this " 5vs5 balance" lie rather than fix the problem
In practice…
Stealth + Skills with cooldown= manageable
Stealth + spammable energy system= absurd idea
Solution= Remove stealth from game, remove quickness , add CD skills to thief and re-add shadow stepping as it was in GW1 or something similar..but stealth has always been the most abused thing in videogames
http://i.imgur.com/ZMgBM.jpg.…….yes it’s real and kicking
Actually the set with most condition removals untreated is scepter/focus, in a team fight nothing beat the staff for condition removal when treated with EA and cantrips, hence why I’ve stated that staff got by far the most condition removals..as group play.
Anyway here belows a picture showing the amount of dmg a thief does when you try to go glass cannon on an ele
@Narcarsis
The only people thieves can kill instantly are other glass who run around with 1k toughness and 14k hp with no defensive cool downs, and even then they can react and avoid burst.
So one-shotting people is fine…but survive the burst is not, but unless you go tanky build..you get one-shotted, furthermore thieves will say :
-“l2p ,dodge noob”
And if you go more tanky:
-“l2p noob , bunker are OP”
Either way you’re always a noob, but thief players are apparently the “Highly skilled” players in this game. it takes skills to do this
perma-stealth thief
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DSbw8Cpy-3s
…laughable
Again with your overly inflated EGO, “every good ele I know”, so now you’re talking for the entire ele community, truly amusing…
You really don’t get it…..your average d/d ele kill you with condition dmg for 70% as thieves running that BS build just get hit over and over by burning aoe dmg and you’re a thief running with almost 0 toughness, but on other people with min level of toughness a d/d ele hit max for 2k with churning earth( and you really must be bad to be hit by that)
There is no way to nerf d/d accordingly to your wishes, there are no invulnerability skill or huge hit skills, the auras work only against baddies who spamm skills, you can dodge far too easily both burning speed and churning earth and almost all CC skills got over 40s CD, there is nothing that you can nerf and make life easier for you…you’ll still lose to capable eles regardless.
The other weapon sets got no less aoe dmg, if anything the skills are more annoying to land ..but not less effective nevertheless.
And pls..stop talking about Anet! Their intention is to improve the burst capabilities of the ele..dude just give up, you’ll never be able to beat a decent ele with a BS build..you can cry all you want…
Get to higher level competitive play in paids, you’ll see 95% of the time.
So your playing experience equal to 95% of the entire GW2 community…I woudn’t expect anything different from somebody who think of himself as a “highly skilled thief”, more than a laugh you don’t provide anything else…is there a single video of this tanky/burst/support ele killing people left and right?
The funny thing is that you expect Anet to even listen to your lies….
All this game needs are bug fixes and the tools to improve the pvp area as a whole like matchmaking, rankings, seperated solo/grp queues and so on.
Most of you guys still talk about balance in a 1v1 mindset, but it just doesn’t work that way.
okay, so it’s acceptable to have 6-7 viable builds that outperform everything else? we’re talking about improving build variety, which is what my suggestions revolve around. no where did i discuss 1v1 balance. unfortunately, as things stand in “competitive” pvp, players are very much focused on dueling and bunker specs. basically, there are only two roles: bunker and roamer. bunkers absorb damage, roamers duel and/or burst. this sucks.
thanks for your input.
That got nothing to do with professions balance but rather is the format to blame, for instance by having a capture the flag mode you won’t have bunker problems anylonger, if you just nerf bunker..you will bring the game close to collapse.
Without bunker you won’t see anylonger : necros,eles,engies,guardians all 4 of them lack a competitive burst build compared to thief/mesmer/warrior/ranger.
In practice half of the professions in this game got mechanics that favour burst build( stealth/quickness), while it’s the contrary for the other 4 that got mechanic intended for survival ( self-heal-control-etc)
Generally speaking all the nerf cries can all be related to " ego" problems, rarely there is mention of “build diversity”, for most part you’ll see people asking for nerfs because their cheesy burst build can be countered
I have, you are committing a logical fallacy by begging the question. Continue to argue in circles.
In the end you can’t answer any question, you can’t list any number or build..
We’ll leave the discussion as it is, the entire community will wait for this tanky/burst/support and unbeatable d/d ele build that you claim
I am not comparing D/D to staff, you really are ignorant.
You’re ignorant if you think the game is balanced around a 1v1 format. It’s meant as a team game, and D/D is THE strongest team fight spec in the game, as well as one of the best 1vX. Thief dies to most things 1v1 if played as burst, glass builds are not intended for 1v1.
Lol..I’m sure even the developers are laughing at you right now, so mind to explain the public how d/d ele has become tanky, burst, support all in one?