Guild Wars 2

Chronologist.9782:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

I am running a 0/30/30/10/0 Toughness Condition build and found myself more often then not getting RIDICULOUSLY burst down THROUGH 100% Death Shroud AND from 100% full health to dead in like 1-2 second by Warriors and thieves. This seems SERIOUSLY broken, surely a toughness build should be well kinda tough yet i can be burst down through FULL Death Shroud and Health by Thieves and Warriors

Anyone else experience this? How the hell can this be countered? i mean getting stunned and becoming dead in under 2seconds kind of SUCKS when you just simply cant do ANYTHING as far as i am aware

I’m assuming when you say this, you mean Wombo Combo (Stun/100b) from warrior or Pistol Whip from thief or 1v2+

When you get stunned, and you don’t have stun breaker up, you can deathshroud + fear while stunned. I do this all the time to 100b/PW

Im not to sure what the skill is, its something that they warrior jumps into me swinging around like crazy, the Thief got no idea as they went into stealth and the next thing i knew i was dead.

This was THROUGH 100% Death Shroud as well as 100% health, fear is useful when its off cool down but i just dont under stand how a TOUGHNESS build can take SO much damage in like 2seconds when you look at “Bunker” Guardians can take INSANE amounts of damage now i dont want us like that but being at least able to SURVIVE their burst would be nice…

Dibrom.6408:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Zinwrath.2049:

keep atleast one stun breaker up always. If nothing else for warriors/theifs.

Yeah but thats only useful when you get enough time to use it, the stun is on until i actually die (that counts finish as well) if i am in DS, i have to leave that use a Stun Breaker that takes more time to do then it does for them to kill me.

Npow i am not saying we should be able to take as much damage as “Bunker” Guardians (which is SERIOUSLY overpowered) but it would be nice if being in a “Toughness” build that i didnt get burst down SO easily

What?

Stun Breakers are instant
Entering/Leaving DS is instant
Doom is instant

“instant” isnt actually “instant” as you have to account for Ping and such. then theres the fact within 1second i will be down to a few thousand health…whats the point in using a stun breaker then?

Plus this all depends on having everything off cooldown as well

I dont really have problems with anyone else, sure i might die but it wont be in under 2seconds even though its MEANT to make you HARDER to kill, i can survive LONGER fighting several other people at the same time then fighting just 1 of these spec-ed classes

Zinwrath.2049:

keep atleast one stun breaker up always. If nothing else for warriors/theifs.

Yeah but thats only useful when you get enough time to use it, the stun is on until i actually die (that counts finish as well) if i am in DS, i have to leave that use a Stun Breaker that takes more time to do then it does for them to kill me.

Npow i am not saying we should be able to take as much damage as “Bunker” Guardians (which is SERIOUSLY overpowered) but it would be nice if being in a “Toughness” build that i didnt get burst down SO easily

@Mango i know that but i find it stupid that most of the minor traits have ZERO benefit to me what so ever and that SHOULDNT happen we shouldnt have minor traits that are ONLY useful for certain build.

I am running a 0/30/30/10/0 Toughness Condition build and found myself more often then not getting RIDICULOUSLY burst down THROUGH 100% Death Shroud AND from 100% full health to dead in like 1-2 second by Warriors and thieves. This seems SERIOUSLY broken, surely a toughness build should be well kinda tough yet i can be burst down through FULL Death Shroud and Health by Thieves and Warriors

Anyone else experience this? How the hell can this be countered? i mean getting stunned and becoming dead in under 2seconds kind of SUCKS when you just simply cant do ANYTHING as far as i am aware

digiowl.9620:

Best i can tell from various sources is that Anet freaked when a couple of people figured out how to be virtually unkillable in one of the beta tests by keeping DS up constantly. So they reduced some stuff here, removed some stuff there, and then launched the game…

and now make it pretty useless unless fully specc-ed for it.

Id say Death Shroud and mesmer Shatter systems are the worst mechanics in the game. The Mesmer Shatter system as its only useful for shatter spammers while those (like me) that spec to get benefits and bonuses with them being up we lose WAY to much to make using shatters that useful

Death Shroud has the same problem, when specc-ed into its solid, when not its pretty poor compared to the other classes that are still very solid even when taking NO traits that improve it at all.

The fact you can be burst out of DS from 100% in under a second is VERY annoying, the damage is sub-par and losing all utilities is annoying in group fights getting LF isnt too bad though could be better, solo its terrible

For me at least, it has the same issue as Mesmer Shatter mechanic…just not worth using most of the time sure you get that extra “health” while decent can be burst out of in seconds the abilities are pretty shoddy as well damage is low, fear and the mass AoE are decent though but nothing more so over all i think it could do with alot of work but then that goes for the trait system as well but that wont be fixed any time soon either.

I am playing a Condition/Toughness build and its SO annoying how useless most of the traits are in the tree if running this sort of build -

Reanimater and Protection of the Horde are both awful and are ZERO benefit to me. Dark Armor, Minion Master, Ritual of Protection, Shrouded Removal, Reaper’s Protection, Death Shiver, Flesh of the Master, Death Nova and Necromantic Corruption are all pretty or very useless for us

well with one update they have all but killed my spec, well done Anet..well done. instead of FIXING the issues and bugs you are just making everything worse. Seriously they increase the cool down on one of the VERY few AoE abilities we have that is VERY easily moved out of

Then they go and destroy Phantom builds, knowing that we werent exactly the best damage dealers thanks to several design “flaws” and they just go and make it worse if they have to increase the cool down on the Phantoms attacks then they MUST increase health and toughness of clones and phantoms as we simply wont have the damage to kill anyone now and the fact that the clones and phantoms die when sneezed on

Bye bye Measmer – you’re getting shelved until this class is fixed i REFUSE to be forced into a specific spec that i HATE – shatter spamming so give me a call when you fix the class

I dont use either of them, i use Feeback – so much fun watching ranged go full nuke only to kill themselves lol

Mirror Images and Signet of Illusions are the other 2 that i use solid but suffer with the fact that the Clones and Phantoms have to be alive for several seconds before they get the added health

I use neither of them lol I use Feedback, Signet of Illusions, Mirror Images

All great for the spec i run, i just wish Signet of Illusions become active as soon as the clones/Phantoms are spawned

The problem is with most people if the class is harder to play then another class it is considered weak…

Once they fix the character rendering thing then Portal WONT be Overpowered, it isnt now but most people seem to think that the lag is seeing people is a function of Portal when its just how poorly designed some of the things are – yeah getting killed in like 2seconds because a group used the issue with the game (Anet fault) to come kill you when you are lagging thanks to the extra 20-30 people that appeared on the screen in a blink of an eye is VERY annoying – do i blame Portal? No, i blame Anet for not fixing the issue

@ Hackks “and OMG no you did not mention Tornado… lol, -10pts for sheer absurdity”

What class do you play? Tornado is a VERY strong skill when used at the RIGHT time, Unlike Moa and unlike MI it can be VERY useful in group fights. I use either Tornado or the Greater Elemental on my Ele and think both are superior then both MI which is a laughable Elite when the Thief has a better version (IMO) that is only a Utility ability. Shadow Refuge has a 60second cool down AND heals people, MI has a 90second cool down and gives stealth for like 2-3seconds personally i would take Shadow Refuge any day over MI

I think most of the Mesmer players would be HAPPY to have both MI and Moa replaced with something more useful we have ONE ability that can be used in pretty much Any situation. What other classes have 2/3 of the Elites they have that are either simply out done by other classes UTILITY or very situational?

I would say we got the short end of the stick, we get ONE that is useful in most situations and 2 that are barely used but still moaned about that not many Mesmers even use.

I could name several elites from other professions that i would rather have instead of both MI and Moa bar its issues with transformed people and minions which are BUGS Moa isnt even that strong once that is fixed even less people will use them

So in my opinion, It isnt wrong at all for us to suggest “better” or more USEFUL elites then Moa and MI because at the moment they are very poor excuses for elites not even sure how Moa is meant to fit into the class at all

waiting for the mesmer, Thief and Guardian to be mentioned

I personally think its more down to play style and people just complaining coz they expect to beat everyone and when they lose they scream OP

Chumsy.5714:

a lot of the times the clones trick your own teammates to the point where when you are downed and create a downed clone, they will try to rez your clone

God that has happened to me SO many times, and i am having to scream out you are healing the clone -.-

still funny though (when you dont die) lol

Sezu.8564:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

You make out that it is 100% effective when it can be dodged and stuff if you die from it well then thats your fault if losing a point is more important then being able to come back 10second later out of Moa and retake it then well in my opinion thats not the abilities fault thats yours.

plus i dont know a single Mesmer that uses it – i have used it ONCE before replacing it with Time Warp

Plus seeing as how OP Bunker Guardians are they SHOULD have a counter…

For the record, I play engi and staff ele bunkers. Not a guardian.

The problem isn’t so much me vs. a mesmer. It’s me vs. a mesmer and his teammate. I literally die within a few seconds because I can’t use any of my abilities. Also, trying to “retake” a point as a bunker build against 2 is nearly impossible. This ability is too strong (relative to other classes) and there’s no denying it.

As a bunker, even the worst of us should be able to hold a point for five seconds versus two.

so the ability is broken because you are teamed up against? surely that is called team work, if you need help call out for it…

hackks.3687:

wow. seriously? go play any other class for a while and see how often you’re busting out an elite skill that turns a fight in your favor. Half the classes I play I’d prefer to just slot another utility skill rather than be forced to choose the one (or none) semi-useful elite.

As for thief invis, I mean they have to have SOMETHING that’s useful to a group right? what else can they slot that’s useful to anyone other than themselves?

you know what’s funny and strangely telling? You guys are all making up new elites while everyone else is asking for someone else’s (mostly yours). If that isn’t indicative of the elite skill discrepancy then I don’t know what is.

malcontents! for shame!!!

Or that could be just the players that would rather be handed wins and think anyone that beats them in a fight is OP the Guardian insta heal everyone is one of the most OP elites with ease Tornado can be killer as well, its just kinda funny that everyone tries to pick on the ONE elite that most Mesmers dont even like anyway – so they can nerf the hell out of it for all i care – but what would be better is giving us something that is useful in all situations (wvw, dungeons, PvE and PvP) as Both MI and Moa dont give that

isnt that what an elite is mean to do, turn things into your favor – Tornado can do that, Guardian insta heal everyone can do that dont Thiefs have thives guild that spawn adds that seems pretty decent as well so is Plague and that other one they got that transforms them

Now i know Moa has issues with transformed people and minions but that ISNT a function, clearly a bug and one that should have been fixed along time ago – bet once thats fixed even less people will use Moa as well

Sezu.8564:

nldixon.8514:

If you’re dying while you’re moa’d you’re doing it wrong. I haven’t died as a moa in quite a while.

Not to mention that moa is probably the worst of the Mesmer elites. A 10 second ability that doesn’t even keep the target from dodging or running away versus a skill that gives quickness to EVERYONE in the area or a mass invisibility?

Most of the time I get moa’d it’s by some Mesmer that’s a button mashing goon and uses it whenever it’s up. Generally when I’m almost already dead anyway or it’s a three or four on one fight.

You obviously don’t play tPvP, your opinion is therefore invalid.

As a bunker(btw who even termed it that?), your job is to stay ON the point. MoA morph gives you 2 choices: Stay on the point and die because you can’t use any abilities, or run away and lose the point. No other profession has an elite ability that comes close to this effectiveness against bunker builds. Mesmers already have enough broken mechanics in regards to tPvP. Why should they ALSO be able to so easily take a point. This is just one (extremely powerful) instance of how good this ability is.

Edit – INB4 hurr durr L2Dodge newb. Most of the time they cast it from stealth and so there are literally no visual cues.

You make out that it is 100% effective when it can be dodged and stuff if you die from it well then thats your fault if losing a point is more important then being able to come back 10second later out of Moa and retake it then well in my opinion thats not the abilities fault thats yours.

plus i dont know a single Mesmer that uses it – i have used it ONCE before replacing it with Time Warp

Plus seeing as how OP Bunker Guardians are they SHOULD have a counter…

I dont care which is “strongest” seen plenty complain about the Mesmer PvE state but i myself think its great fun, sure it can be a challenge but i dont want to 1hit everything and be handed everything on a plate

Ele was quite strong as well havent played the others as the only 2 classes i have played are Ele and Mesmer – trying to force myself to ignore all the hate going on about Necro and make one

hackks.3687:

Engi has one decent elite – Supply drop
Ele has no decent elites
Necro elites have potential but nothing near as effective as any of the mesmer elites
Thief elites are purely selfish and bring almost nothing to a group

seriously, this can’t be new to you guys… mesmer elites #1

hell some of their slot skills are better than other classes elites lol

ele no decent elite? Tornado AND the summon ability are both GREAT abilities and when used right they can be quality and VERY useful in any situation unlike say Moa.

necro i think have decent/good elites as well the Plague is great for Condition builds and the other one (forget the name) is great as well the difference is they BOTH have there uses for different specs

Unlike Mesmer ones which bar Time Warp are pretty much Meh except for SPECIFIC situations other then that they are pretty useless

hackks.3687:

Moa is awesome for 1v1 and 1v2 if not just for the lolz

Time Warp is beast

Mass Invis – L2P that elite amazing. I’m not going to say why though. Find out for yourselves.

wow, a must have elite that is useless in WvW and only good in CERTAIN situations in S/Tpvp wow thats an amazing ability i take Time Warp over it EVERY time that first group encounter and Time Warp could easily be the different between a win or lose (in that encounter)

Mass Invis isnt even as good as a NORMAL utility skill of the Thief, so why is theres a a Utility skill instead of a Elite like ours?

Untouch.2541:

Ooh, I see we’re adding necros to the list of “OP classes”!

which is kinda funny, seeing as how from what i hear from Necros the class isnt that great – i loved them in BWE3 with a Condition build but that got nerfed and seemed useless now i just dunno if i would enjoy the class i ONLY want to play a Condition build

Come on most Mesmers dont even use it, its not that great – long cast time, can be dodged, ect and not only that you can still MOVE and run away so if you are dying because of it i guess you are just seeing you are a Moa (NOT chicken) and letting them full on nuke you til you die – you can STILL move

I personally think the Pistol is the best off hand, great CC with ability 5 and you get the Pistol Phantoms out and they do some serious damage in dungeons i can have 3 all out just blasting away with it off cool down and ready to use again should 1 die

I think the Torch is decent but not the strongest weapon we have damage wise, guess the utility it offers is nice but i guess i just like going for CC/damage

Kalar Meadia.8439:

Any time a projectile comes into contact with the field circle, from without or within, the projectile is reflected.

The Utility Ability is focused around a target enemy, unfortunately, the only way to make it field around yourself is if the enemy targetd is at point blank. Works well when trying to focus down an enemy who has an ally attacking you from ranged, if you’ve got the focus target pinned.

There is an ability called “Medic’s Feedback” that employs the same field around you when you attempt to resurrect an ally. This is the only case in which yourself or an ally is considered a target for the ability.

Thats a real shame, feel it would be better suited if it could target an ally/self or enemy like to use to profect people that are getting blasted at – would be useful for ressing downed players thanks to that OP arrow attack either from Thief or siege weapons

hackks.3687:

you people make me sick. 3 kick kitten elites when most classes don’t even have 1 decent one and you guys come up with even more OP nonsense for suggested “new elites”…

for shame, you malcontents!! for shame!!!!

3? Time Warp Yeah, MI sucks for a elite and Moa is usless in like 90% of situations and even less useful in WvWvW…

@ Tuomir " Heh, I’ve got one…

Masquarade
-Summon a clone with a high health pool. Lasts 60 seconds. (is replaced by a swap skill you can use as many times as you wish for as long as the clone is alive, you and the clone switch places without a “poof” effect. Would not shatter.)"

Make it 3 clones that last until death with a random place swap on a 10 second cool down until the 3 clones die and you got an EPIC elite

Defektive.7283:

Not to take a page out of WoW’s book but.. Why not an indicator with a color, while the gear remains the same. Such as a circle under the player denoting the team they are on?

I agree with this, i dont see the point in getting all that nice gear and getting it the color you like and everything only to have it all colored one color, i dont see many other games that follow this – take wow a HUGE success and doesnt require everyone to be the same color in PvP and they have some quite big maps (AV is like 40 vs 40) and yet no one complains about not being able to tell friend from foe

yeah i think Moa and Mass Invibility should be replaced :
Moa because its crap
MI because it isnt worthy of Elite status

Something that Makes all clones copy the Mesmer skill for skill and damage done for like 10seconds would be pretty sweet

Though turning myself into a Phantasm would be pretty sweet as well – Could like turn all abilities done into Phantasm looking ones that deal the kinda damage that Phantasms deal

What about one that summons 3 clones that have the same health pool as you and do PROPER damage and last until killed. They could also have the same abilities you have as well rather then just using the same attack over and over again

@ Qelris Maybe but most people in PvP tend not to use any ability other then Auto attacks until they know its the mesmer. Iw ould just be nice if they didnt die so easily – i mean Auto Attacks do what 1-3k damage for most classes unless you are in really bad shape that damage isnt going to kill you or put you in down state

EDIT: Then you also gotta take into account the SoI ability that doesnt even become active until several seconds after spawning so even if the person is weak they will still kill them with auto attacks even AoE splash damage and dots, ect

Kalar Meadia.8439:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

IDICERI.4268:

Mesmer
When fighting Mesmers you are looking for 3 things:
-Mesmers apply a condition called CONFUSION which deal damage to you everytime you attack. Make sure to remove it.
-Mesmers have phantasms which deal an enormous amount of damage to you. CC the Mesmer and Barrage the area.
-Mesmers have Chaos Storm (DO NOT WORK IN OR STAY IN THIS LARGE PURPLE DOME OF DEATH).

You are also forgetting Feedback, it can EASILY kill someone that goes for the burst when its up – If you see it move OUT before you ANY attacks. I play Mesmer and rarely use Confuse but thats because of the build i play – keeping Illusions up rather then destroying them

Keep in mind that moving out will not be enough for Feedback. None of your ranged attacks can hit the bubble in any way shape or form, which means even if you move out, a Mesmer can move in or keep the bubble between you.

Move forward through the bubble and knock the mesmer back on the other side before he can close in on it. If he does get inside it, wait it out to attack.

Yeah i was thinking about moving forward or sideways out of it. So even if you are not in the bubble but its between you and the mersmer/target and use a range ability then its still reflected?

I wonder if it can be cast on yourself? a better option then on a target that can just move out of it – pop it on yourself and then if they attack while running at you they take damage and if they attack while inside it they take damage so you get the full use rather then a second or 2

IDICERI.4268:

Mesmer
When fighting Mesmers you are looking for 3 things:
-Mesmers apply a condition called CONFUSION which deal damage to you everytime you attack. Make sure to remove it.
-Mesmers have phantasms which deal an enormous amount of damage to you. CC the Mesmer and Barrage the area.
-Mesmers have Chaos Storm (DO NOT WORK IN OR STAY IN THIS LARGE PURPLE DOME OF DEATH).

You are also forgetting Feedback, it can EASILY kill someone that goes for the burst when its up – If you see it move OUT before you ANY attacks. I play Mesmer and rarely use Confuse but thats because of the build i play – keeping Illusions up rather then destroying them

Kain.3480:

Considering phantasms are most of mesmer damage output and they are used in every mesmer builds this should be fixed asap.

This is a HUGE issue and one that is broken in my opinion – They do to much damage and makes the class not really that fun knowing that you press a button or 2 to summon a phantom and see the crits going crazy

I personally think they should change Phantoms and make them just give conditions and boons and move the damage to the Clones and Mesmer. It would be nice if the Clones didnt die when sneezed on and did like 5-15damage. Think it needs to be buffed at least into the 100-200 and remove the conditions they give and move them onto the Phantom as i said

I think that would fix most of the complaining about the class as most people seem to moan about the damage they do and also Moa which is rubbish anyway and Portal which is very situational

Only just seemed to start happening for me, since the last patch never saw it before it freaked me out at first but now kinda used to it

Personally i prefer the Staff with Sword/Pistol Combo. Stick with Staff most of the time but when i see the chance swap to Sword/Pistol – Pop Phantom Dualist then go into Pistol 5 > Sword 2 combo for some solid damage

Amiron.1067:

Clones = meatshields and shatter ammunition.

Phantasms = Moar Dps.

That’s the dumbed down version. :P

“Meatshields” – Not really when they die to auto attacks in PvP, dies to lower level enemies in 1 hit in PvE doesnt really make for decent “meatshields”

Personally i think they should completely remove Phantoms and move all the damage they do to the Mesmer and Clones, its so annoying that i could just summon 2/3 Phantoms and stand there doing nothing and watch as the target gets killed

Of course, this changes based on situation – in Dungeons i have managed to get a full set of Dualists out doing about 1-5k damage per a set of bullets EACH

Amiron.1067:

Clones = meatshields and shatter ammunition.

Phantasms = Moar Dps.

That’s the dumbed down version. :P

“Meatshields” – Not really when they die to auto attacks in PvP, dies to lower level enemies in 1 hit in PvE doesnt really make for decent “meatshields”

Personally i think they should completely remove Phantoms and move all the damage they do to the Mesmer and Clones, its so annoying that i could just summon 2/3 Phantoms and stand there doing nothing and watch as the target gets killed

Of course, this changes based on situation – in Dungeons i have managed to get a full set of Dualists out doing about 1-5k damage per a set of bullets EACH

Its annoying as hell, getting a Clone/Phantom out and watch as it gets 1hit and dies when facing LOWER level enemies -.-

for some reason i barely see any Mesmers, maybe its luck or something even though i am a Mesmer myself i rarely see any and its annoying coz when i go 1vs1 against a Mesmer its just insanely fun

Ive won some, ive lost some to say the class is Overpowered i think is stupid, i agree somethings need a tweak but being overpowered i disagree overpowered is like beating EVERYONE which no one can do

kagemitsu.3657:

The most played classed definitely aren’t Thieves and Mesmers.

Oh, wait.

3mesmers from 16 people isnt that bad what so ever, Thief’s on the other hand thats quite a few…

dont thief have that signet that lets them deal 150% damage – have you thought maybe they used that and it crit?

juno.1840:

Hehe, “ignorance”… lol, I’m sry but you don’t take feedback that is contrary to your points well… but it’s certainly not ignorance.

The definition of deceive does not imply duration — you inserted that yourself.

Why don’t you just try clones in PvP and WvW and see how often your foes are deceived — sometimes it will happen, sometimes it will not. The bottom line is that it will happen.

You can attribute that to player ability, or not — doesn’t matter.

They will be decived IF they are new to the class, everyone else knows how to tell the real Mesmer -

you move = found
use any attack other then ability 1 on your weapon = found

Strill: Because the primary class mechanic (shattering) is intended to be universally useful. It’s the secondary mechanics which we should be specializing in.

EXACTLY my view point, its a BIG part of the class so it SHOULD NOT be limited to those that trait for it and play in a specific way it should be open to EVERYONE

squiggit.2357:

Get rid of damage from phantasms – Phantasms deal no damage, but when placed on a target either increase the ability of the Mesmer to deal damage against them or cause denial/reactive punishment for certain target behaviour, or both;
Get rid of damage from clones – Clones deal no damage, bleeding or other conditions, but are tweaked to more deliberately serve their function as defensive tools of deception that are intended to absorb attacks;

These suggestions just wreck the idea of clone heavy or phantasm heavy builds though, which is sort of a key feature of the class.

Heck, if anything Clone damage needs to be higher (or you need to be able to field more of them).

Thats why i added my opinion, the damage comes from the player but the phantoms cause conditions on the enemy as well as curing conditions on allies

So take the iDualist for example – Rather then attacking the target doing what is it like 900+ damage per a hit in its spree which is like 6(?) attacks so instead they cause 6stacks of Bleeding then goes on cool down

Clones ARENT there for damage, they are for confusing enemies

Zogyark – i dont know ONE mesmer that uses Moa, every Mesmer i know uses TW. Its normally used by new players and those trying to just nuke down new players.

Though i think it is strong, i dont think its over powered, bar maybe length – it can be dodged, evaded and such plus a long cast time that can easily be interrupted but you do have the option is to RUN away – 10 seconds hide behind a wall or something until its over.

a good combo could be to use Mirror Images and then Decoy right after – 3 clones and invisibility for like 3 seconds

Yeah that as well, so basically either Staff or kitten yourself and not use a off hand thanks to the bug that STILL hasnt been fixed.

Dont move and dont use any attack other then auto attack

Thats about all you can do

I have used it maybe twice, i think TW is FAR Superior to Moa