Guild Wars 2

Mitissa.1532:

Shattering is something I do as a finisher. If the enemy is down to around 10% health or so I can slam the F1 key and /giggle my way to victory. In PvP situations, the other shatters (F2 thru F4) offer various buffs and debuffs that increase survivability. In my opinion, Mesmer illusions were never intended to increase 1 on 1 damage… but rather toss chaos and confusion into the bucket of mess that we call combat.

The problems start with range, the fact that they can get stuck, they can be easily killed going through AoE so many ways to stop them unless they are melee clones or illusions

Roven Leafsong.8917:

Sorry for the length of the reply.

Totally agree about shatters, maybe not in how you fix them but thats down to each person but Shattering in my opinion is too beneficial for those that play that way, i dont and think having a class mechanic that is more beneficial if you play that way is stupid

do the class mechanics of other classes work better/worse based on how you want to play your character? sure you can use traits to make them better in some way but if you like to play in a way to KEEP clones/Phantoms up then Shattering is nearly always useless, maybe when the target is nearly dead but even then why bother if they are nearly dead?

As for :

Get rid of damage from phantasms – Phantasms deal no damage, but when placed on a target either increase the ability of the Mesmer to deal damage against them or cause denial/reactive punishment for certain target behaviour, or both;

Get rid of damage from clones – Clones deal no damage, bleeding or other conditions, but are tweaked to more deliberately serve their function as defensive tools of deception that are intended to absorb attacks;
Make illusions temporary – Both types of illusions should disappear on their own like any other type of condition;

Make illusions different to minions – Both types of illusions should be differentiated from ‘real’ creatures somehow so that they can’t be instantly blown away by stray fire in combat, but still attacked and destroyed through deliberate effort;

Make shatter enhance/exploit Mesmer illusions – Either shatters changed so that they don’t in fact destroy all of your own illusions, or alternatively the effects of shatter changed so that the result is something even more ‘Mesmery’ or illusion-centric.

Personally i think that Phantoms need to do 0 Damage (as you say) but instead are there to give Conditions, remove boons as well as cure conditions and give boons to allies, this would be Phantom specific so iDualist could give stacks of Bleeding to enemies while removing any stacks of bleeding from allies, similar would be for other Phantoms like Phantom Mage curing Confusion on allies and giving confusion to Targets

Clones, i think should be as you say more deceptive having them do Auto attacks is fine, they need to look like they are attacking after all – remove the condition giving, leave that to the new Phantoms

Improvements that could be made – Mirror Images, creates 3 clones and has a second use that it swaps the Mesmers location with the location of a clone randomly – all the 3 clones and the Mesmer get a shatter effect so the target(s) dont know which is the real mesmer on a 10 second cool down

This new improved Mirror Images could also allow the second useage of swapping locations to be useable as long as atleast 1 clone is active so that you dont have to use MI just to get access to it, so will work with clones that are created via other methods

Illusions and clones need more defense/health to counter AoE splash damage as well as to stop them dying from a single auto attack

Make it so Shatter BUFFS us and our clones/phantoms rather then destroying them So they still stay the way they are but rather then Phantoms and clones run up and blow themselves up to do damage they do something like:

Mind Wreck – Increase damage done buy the Mesmer as well as the condition damage from the new phantoms

Cry Of Frustration – Makes the Mesmers auto attacks to cause Confusion on the target(s) say 1 stack of confusion last 1.5 seconds per a stack and lasts for 10 seconds targets hit by bouncing attacks such as WoC also get affected BUT no AoE damage does

so lets say they get off 5 attacks in that time (could be more) they get 5 stacks of confusion that lasts 6.5seconds as it would refresh the duration so that it doesnt fall off every time

Diversion – same as CoF but causes Daze instead

Distortion – Not so sure about this one, but maybe makes the Mesmer, Clones and Phantoms immune to damage for 5 seconds?

I like Mesmers, its a fun class but i do think it has some very important issues that i think need addressing

1. Phantoms, do way too much of our damage (unless we are Shatter bashers)

Fix: Reduce damage to 0, turn them into Living hexes which i think they were meant to be – have them so specific ones either : Cure conditions, give boons or give conditions and move the damage back to the Mesmer and clones would be nice if Clones lived a bit longer and did a bit more ten mere double digit damage

2. Clones are broken. They are meant to deceive and annoy yet – nearly anyone that knows anything about Mesmers know that the clones dont move – so attack the moving one and abilities like ileap and Mirror Images dont confuse anyone – ileap the real Mesmer is behind the clone and mostly (i think) the real mesmer is in the centre when they use Mirror Images

Fix : First Make Mirror Images create 3 clones not 2 and then give it a second part that swaps places of the Mesmer and one of the clones randomly every say 10seconds – maybe make it so they all get that “shatter” effect so the target cant tell who is who

Also make it so clones MOVE – the only time they move is when they lose LoS or range of the target

Would be nice to fix the no offhand bug as well

It is SO annoying getting a clone or Phantom out and they die to an AUTO attack -.-
they need atleast a few thousand more health (at lvl 80) to actually survive long enough to be useful most of the time they can be sneezed at and die

UptheIronz.6732:

Problem is not the thief , thief dies as fast as they kill , go watch guardians and mesmers overshadowing the rest of the classes , so if i was a dev i will take a close look at the design of the mesmer and guardians , retardilation anyone ?
on ur with bufffing look at necromancer

I dont quite understand the people saying how OP Mesmers are – first i will start by saying i play a Mesmer. Overall i think the class is solid -

- Shattering needs fixing
- Nerf Phantoms and bring the damage to the Mesmer/Clones
- Even make Phantoms do 0 damage but either cure conditions, give boons or give conditions based on the Phantom used

thats about it, they are meant to have high utility, i agree that Phantoms are too strong and thats something even annoys me BUT they die VERY fast with a “recharge time” before they can attack

Moa is pretty crappy ability in my opinion might work against new players but it can be dodged, evaded, has a long cast time and such giving it the use of the characters 6-9 ability would break the ability completely – i would say decrease the time to about 5 seconds and reduce the cool down to 60seconds maybe 90seconds and then its sorted

I dont know any Mesmer that actually uses it over Time Warp though which can be VERY important when first going head to head in groups

Most of the Mesmer class is based around the clones and Phantoms kill them they die SO fast – too fast in my opinion especially the clones but they do VERY little damage once they are down the Mesmer is pretty screwed

We have VERY little in the way of Burst damage like 100Blades or something and our class Mechanic for burst(?) the Shatter system is pretty poor with SO many issues. So we have to do a bit higher damage in general to make up for the very weak burst damage we can do

Now sure you can Shatter then, but you come into the issues of them running and getting stuck again, exploding and doing no damage to anything on the slighted change of terrain they suddenly get stuck – It would be nice if that:

1. They fixed that – Made so that when you shatter doesnt matter where the clone is (as long as its in say 900range) that it will just explode there and do its Damge or confusion, i mean Distortion doesnt need the clones/phantoms to run at us does it? why should the others require it?

No one is talking about totally changing the whole profession, just tweaking it with my current build i barely get any damage/confusion when using Shatters which would be fine for a general ability or utility standpoint but its our Mechanic, the ONE thing EVERY mesmer will have in common and its kinda wasted in builds that dont take the traits that buff it or anything

“If u’r not spected into phatasm dmg.. u BARELY EVER use phantasm.. and your damage comes from yourself rather than phantasm..”

You SHOULDNT be losing damage if you wonna make something else stronger, you are still the same if you take the traits that improve clones/phantoms as you were before (minus the damage ones) but you dont suddenly get weaker to make the phantoms stronger

And again, no one is asking to change the profession (its NOT a class) just to improve a few things, as it stands our unique mechanic isnt on par with the other professions partly down to design and partly down to bugs and issues

We SHOULDNT need to trait for our mechanic for it to be usable – does Warriors need that? Thiefs? Necromancers? No they can trait to make them better but out of the box, no traits or anything it sucks

I personally think that having the Phantoms just be Condition casters and do no damage and then buff up the Mesmer and clones would be a great idea, werent they meant to be “living hexes” anyway?

Now i dont mind how we do damage as much as i find the whole Shatter system only useful when Traited for it, my trait load out for example makes using Shattering pretty useless, i take traits thats benefit keeping them up, giving them more damage, giving me more damage, decreased damage and movement speed with having them up

Its fine having different trait options, but in my opinion its NOT fine when the profession mechanic for it to be worthwhile means having to trait a certain way – all the other professions no matter what way they trait they will still have a good reason to use the unique mechanic as much as they want, sure they can trait to make it better but even untraited its still very solid no matter how you trait your character

Its like they are trying to force a specific playstyle on us just to get use out of the mechanic – The thing is i LIKE how i play now, i DONT want to have to change my whole playstyle for a profession mechanic that isnt quite up there with the others (usefulness no matter how traited)

We should get the CHOICE of being the kind of mesmer that WANTS to destroy the clones/phantoms or the ones that WANT to keep them up – unfortunately if you are the later the professions mechanic (Shatter) is pretty much useless for us

Damage wise, they could in my opinion quite easily fix tha, reducing the damage that Phantoms do – maybe even to 0 and just turn them into Condition giving/spread Phantoms that we create to give and spread conditions and then up the damage that the actual mesmer does as well as beefing up the clones survivability a tad (so they dont die when sneezed on)

Its the Shatter system that is the problem, it is only beneficial to those that WANT to play that way and WANT to trait the character that way for the rest of us, its pretty useless and THAT is the big issue here

how would i know what weapons you use, could be Torch/scepter for all i know. Yeah i do know that but again even that has issues, like iLeap not actually creating a clone even when in range though Blurred Frenzy rocks – quality with Time Warp

I’m not talking about WvW, i am talking specifically S/Tpvp WvWvW is just spam attacks until something dies for most of the time, rarely get any 1vs1 situations its normally huge groups so in that situation i stick with the Staff

Their function – run up to enemy and explode thats what they are MEANT to do, what i am saying is that they dont always do that i have seen and had it happen to me where they will run towards someone, get stuck and explode doing no damage or anything to anyone near them

Its ONLY categorically superior IF you trait that way and thats what i am saying we SHOULD have to trait and play a specific way for our professions unique mechanic to be a benefit – not everyone wants to play that exact way it get the mechanic to work, some people dont want to have to trait that way to get the mechanic to work

Can you name another profession where the mechanic REQUIRES you to be traited in a specific way for it to be worthwhile using?

Yeah so you need to have Clones/Phantoms ready to summon, which means swapping weapons as well so you would you swap to melee weapons JUST to get that Cloe/Phantom up and have to either run into melee or stay at range and do no damage or wait for one of your current weapon set to come active again?

Does it matter? if they die they die – If you shatter and get Confusion on and they DONT use that burst damage attack then thats 3 clones/phantoms pretty much wasted – sure they will take damage but will it be as much as you would have gotten with the Phantoms up? from what i have seen Bleeds do more damage then Confused targets – of course again, based on my trait set.

It might not be how they are meant to function, doesnt stop that happening though i have seen many a time they will suddenly get stuck somewhere and explode without anyone near them.

Not really, as soon as you know which one is the real one you dont really lose them in target though, i can target someone have them run away, go LoS and still i will be targeting them

I use Staff and Sword/Pistol so of course i swap, but with a 10second cool down, i do it when needed Staff better when needing Range and sword/pistol when needing to get close

Depending on the situation, will start with Sword/Pistol go with Magic Bullet, Blurred Frenzy and then use iLeap for Cripple and Immobilize and a few Auto attack Vulnerable stacks into another iLeap followed by Blurred Frenzy

If i am range before i go in i switch to Sword/Pistol get the Phantom Dualist out use Magic Bullet before switching to Staff and getting Warlock out fast and going with WoC, will use Chaos Storm on allies rather then enemies.

You can never say “oh i will do this when this happens, do that when that happens” its all about the current situation, if you have the OPTION to swap then you can but that isnt always an option

That all depends on IF they use Zephyr and try to unload, so they dont do that and you dont get that damage – i tend to see alot of people when they see they have Confuse will stop attacking and use movement to get around – sure that is good for survivability but its damage that you want – they dont do damage they dont take that extra damage

I have seen LOADS of times where Phantoms/Clones will just stop the moment they hit a little change in the terrain and then just blow up doing no damage or anything to anyone

Yeah that will some times happen, but does it happen as often as getting stuck in terrain? in my opinion no it doesnt plus the Phantoms MOVE to get back in line of the target the shattering clones/phantoms will just stand in that place and explode

Again, i DO swap weapons BUT only when its right to do so, will i swap to the Sword/Pistol JUST to get a Phantom out if i am at range? No it would be better to wait for the Warlock to come up and still have the option for YOU to attack

“working as intended” from what i read about the class when they were first mentioned the class wasnt meant to be a pet class, with the Phantoms doing quite a bit of our damage i would say we are one in the respect that we NEED them be it to explode or for the dps the problem is that this sort of thing for being our unique mechanic is that it tries to force into that sort of build, it slike its there so we MUST use it but its ONLY effective for certain builds which isnt the same for the other professions unique mechanics, no matter how to decide to trait its still viable for us it isnt unless traited that specific way.

its like what 3 attacks at the most – if they die, they are the clone, if they take huge chuck of health in damage they are the clone if they move away when you move towards them they are the real mesmer

Mine do about 3,000-4,000 damage and gets to about 7,000with crits with ONE Dualist. Then add the damage the Mesmer does. Plus we could be talking about different trait sets so damage out put is always going to be different

Lets say 3,000 damage per a Phantom per a attack thats 9,000damage at least with no crits Now the first set 3,000 damage then summon the second one so it will get 2 attacks off before the second can be summoned so in 15 seconds it will be 3,000+3,000 (first Phantom 1st and second attacks) and then it will be another 3,000 and 3,000 damage (first phantom and 2nd phantom attack) thats about 12,000 without counting Mesmer damage + Plus the buffs the Mesmer gets for clones/Phantoms being up as well as the conditions given when crits which Phantoms have a high chance – think its something like 70%

In short term fights, trash and such maybe it could be worthwhile IF traited to blow them all up and not traited for the benefits – But again that is just ONE trait set – because it “works” for you to blow them up, doesnt mean it does for everyone but again all this damage talk depends on alot of variable – Level, traits, Phantoms used, other clones, crits and such

You are also taking in that the Shatter will work – ignoring terrain which they get stuck in as well as the fact that most classes will be able to destroy the phantoms with AoE attacks and such

Using Shatters isnt 100% accurate and doesnt always work – where as having them alive they still do damage as well as give me benefits and give target conditions

Did i say i was the best PvP player in the world? No, am i decent? Yes and of course i do that when available but that doesnt stop the fact if you are on a point EVERYONE on the other team will know the real mesmer is the one that is moving, LoS and such isnt always an option there are many points fights where you cant do that unless you run away from the point hide, do your thing and return

A moment or 2 isnt going to save you. As soon as you move, they know who the real mesmer is plus the fact that Phantoms and Clones die within 1-2 auto attacks sure that might stop you getting hit once or twice but is it going to save you in the long run? very unlikely

Blink is very much a wasted slot for PvP, of course again this is dependent on trait set and play style – for me Signet of Illusions is FAR more important, though even then the clones and Phantoms dont last more then a few seconds even against Auto Attacks

It would be nice if Mirror Images not only summed 3 clones (which it should do anyway) but that it had a second effect that swaps your place randomly with another one of your clones and makes the target lose you as a target when used – this could have like say a 10second cool down so can be used upto 3 times

Most players (me included) will not use any attacks on mesmers other then Auto attack until i know its them – pretty easy they take HUGE damage then you know its a clone plus they get summoned with full health – mid way through a fight and you know the mesmer has taken damage – look for the one that doesnt have full health

[/quote]
Not really.

I also get 4 stacks of Might and 4 stacks of Confusion when I Shatter, in addition to Vigor. Depending on mood swings I may also get 4% raw damage from vulnerability stacks.
[/quote]

You might get some nice boons, but as stated i think it is more worthwhile dps wise to keep Phantoms up then destroy them, of course i agree decent benefits if its clones but Phantoms do MORE damage with just ONE up then when using Shatter – at times i can have several Phantoms up – why would i want to lose all of that dps? sure they can die pretty fast but the attacks they do out weigh what you could get from Shattering them, again this all my opinion

[/quote]
Aside from being incorrect, you, and most players, need to realize that Phantasms don’t just “do damage”. They do damage 6 seconds later. It not a complicated concept, but seems to fly over the head of most. You (abstract-you) seem to perceive the full future timeline as a single compressed event, when that is not the reality. Boggles my mind.[/quote]

Yeah i know they have that recharge time, still with that cool down the benefits from having them up out weighs the minor benefits you can get from destroying them – Now i could summon one let it do its attack then destroy but why? if you are going to do it then you do it with 3 up, now if you get 3 phantoms up then why would you destroy them 3 Phantoms doing 2-3,000 damage every seconds – thats like 9,000damage every 6seconds (Phantom Dualist) Plus they get benefits from giving conditions, high crit chance and such

[/quote]
You seem to want clones to distract human enemy players for long periods of time, as if they were NPCs.[/quote]

Human players i can understand – they will know which is the human thanks to the fact that clones dont move what so ever unless the target goes out of range But AI mobs even before they see you and you attack STILL run right for you after you attack AFTER clone/phantom gets VERY annoying

[/quote]
Not gonna happen. Do you think Thieves are happy when I follow them even though they’re stealthed because I know exactly which way they’re going to move? Are they crying about stealth being useless?[/quote]

Am i crying? No. i just dont understand the whole thing, if you are stealth you shouldnt be able to get it, if you have clones/phantoms out then they should all get it – but of course that wont happen

[/quote]
Human players use intelligence to mitigate some of your tactical advantages, including clone deception. Therefore, you must use your own intelligence and tactical acuity to gain advantage and maximize clone deception. It’s still there even if it won’t fool a player for long.[/quote]

“intelligence”? Its not really rocket science – The Mesmer is the one that is MOVING that is about all you need to know, slightly different for downed state but when they are up – the real mesmer is the one that is moving, all clones and phantoms will only move when the target goes out of range

[/quote]
That’s an interesting mob AI / aggro discussion. I started another thread to try and get more observations on the topic. I’ve had builds before where clones were actually highly effective at drawing mob aggro. I could go entire fights and get minimal or no aggro from mobs.[/quote]

I dont change my spec at all, but for some reason some fights i will get NO agro what so ever – go into another fight, against the same kinda mob and do the same kinda thing – summon Clone (from staff) then warlock and go into WoC attacks and yet 1 fight no agro, another fight they will totally ignore the clones and phantoms and go right for me

Rangers have LOADS of abilities that increase pet damage as well as there own as well as other things to help keep them alive, Mesmer Clones and Phantoms die if they get sneezed on even with all the traits and abilities to up the health they have

In my opinion they ARE inferior to Ranger pets it doesnt matter how many damage something can do if it can be killed in 1-2 auto attacks, they HAVE to allow us to summon them often as they die VERY often

EasymodeX.4062:

So you think it is “fine” that most our dps comes from Phantoms?

Most of Mesmer DPS in a phantasm build after 12 seconds comes from phantasms.

Go figure.

Yeah so WHY would you want to destroy the phantoms that do most of our damage? I can understand for clones but if you have Phantoms out Shatter should NOT be used – 1 attack from a Dualist Phantom does MORE damage then if 3 clones/phantoms are destroyed with Mind Wreck….

Guess you think it is also fine that our unique mechanic wants us to DESTROY them for some measly damage that doesnt even compare to keeping them up?

The damage is solid if you trait for it. In addition it can be mostly free damage if you have good timing. In addition, you get many, many effects throughout all the trait trees for using Shatters.

“solid” thats questionable, when 1 Phantom doing an attack does MORE damage then shattering with 3 clones/phantoms out i dont see the point in using it at all, sure traited might do a bit more damage, same can be said for Phantoms

Guess you are also fine with destroying them and loses all the benefits we get from the traists – 9% extra damage, 9% reduced damage and the Movement buff

I’m not sure if you’ve read and/or understood the tooltips, but Clones will suffice for those traits as well. I don’t know about you, but when I Shatter I can typically summon 4 or more Illusions immediately after. Ironically, you can only have 3 out anyways, so …

Not in every situation you will be, maybe get a Phantom or clone out, if you have Mirror Images (which should summon 3 not 2) then its okay, but again why would you want to lose all that damage destroying Phantoms?

Guess thats all “fine” is it?

Yeah, pretty much.

Opinions, everyone has one.

1. Shattering is broken – Lose too much damage as well as benefits from destroying the clones and it is better in 99% of situations to keep them up

It’s actually better in 99% of situations to Shatter the Phantasms at the correct time.

“correct time” – that would be the 1% of the time, again when 1 Phantom out does the damage of Shattering why would you destroy them? Sure might need it for Distortion in some cases, Confuse doesnt really do enough damage to warrant destroying Phantoms

2. Phantoms do WAY to much of our damage – we have to rely on them WAY to much, without them we would be toast to nearly every class

You choose to rely on them for damage. And then you complain about relying on them for most of your damage …

So where is this magic damage going to come from? the Clones? yeah they hit real hard? :/ You have NO other ways of getting that kinda damage out. Sure you get the odd attack that does good damage but most of our damage from a fight will come from Phantoms, i would happily have them doing constant low level damage ( say a few hundred per a hit) and have that damage moved on to increase Mesmer attacks and clone damage

3. Clones DONT confuse people its easy to tell which is the real player – its the one that moves and the one that uses abilities other then the 1slot skill of the weapon

They’re not meant to fool people easily or for long. They do an adequate job of temporary distraction if you move in specific ways; e.g. dropping LOS so they don’t actually see you, using stealth, moving behind and in front of them via swaps and blinks.

They are MEANT to confuse your target so they get hit – which is kinda funny when they die when they just get sneezed on. if you get that target thing, you STILL have it after you rbing out new clones so you get ZERO benefit in the confuse department

4. Clones are pretty much useless in PvE very little damage and even the AI mobs ignore them most of the time

Staff clones produce WOC. Sword clones increase your total damage by 1% per attack. All clones can crit and bleed via SI. They absorb projectiles. They can all be Shattered.

I was talking about how they are MEANT to get attacked to protect you, except in most cases the mob will run right past them and go right for you no matter what

I find it VERY annoying that if a mob is out of range and i use ileap or anything that summons Illusions/clones/phantoms that they will go on cool down and nothing will be summoned

If they are out of range it SHOULDNT use the cool down, the game is far to fast paced and you are always on the move, its VERY annoying to have to keep checking to make sure you are in range before using something as it will go on cool down even if the ability didnt work coz its out of range

Xhieron.2168:

I am utterly exhausted by the lobbying to make the Mesmer something other than it is. It seems like every Tom, kitten, and Harry is convinced he can do a better job designing and balancing an entire profession mechanic after playing this game for a few weeks than the entire ArenaNet development team could over five years of professional development. What’s almost as frustrating to me is the abiding dread that the company might cave to this pressure despite the fact that they did an exceptional job and most of us Mesmers are delighted with the profession.

It’s that dread that keeps me watching this forum with suspicion and annoyance and animates me to pop my head in from time to time to encourage whatever unfortunate staff member is tasked with keeping up with us: Mesmers are fine. The people wanting to gut the profession in no way represent me or the rest of us.

I have ideas for the profession too, of course, but they come from a strong conviction that the profession isn’t broken. I’d love to see dual pistols (along with greataxes and rifles), and if we were to see utility skills that gave us off-mechanic pets, that’d be neat, but I believe this is stuff for content expansions. I’d love to see some QOL changes, sure, and balance is an ongoing process in a game like this, but I would strenuously object to an overhaul of the illusion/shatter mechanic.

So you think it is “fine” that most our dps comes from Phantoms? Guess you think it is also fine that our unique mechanic wants us to DESTROY them for some measly damage that doesnt even compare to keeping them up? Guess you are also fine with destroying them and loses all the benefits we get from the traists – 9% extra damage, 9% reduced damage and the Movement buff

Guess thats all “fine” is it? The class in its current state ISNT fine, sure its not broken but it isnt working as they intended but instead of correcting those issues they are ignoring them – simple fact is in its curren state:

1. Shattering is broken – Lose too much damage as well as benefits from destroying the clones and it is better in 99% of situations to keep them up

2. Phantoms do WAY to much of our damage – we have to rely on them WAY to much, without them we would be toast to nearly every class

3. Clones DONT confuse people its easy to tell which is the real player – its the one that moves and the one that uses abilities other then the 1slot skill of the weapon

4. Clones are pretty much useless in PvE very little damage and even the AI mobs ignore them most of the time

As i said, the profession isnt broken, but it surely isnt “fine”

Yeah i was thinking about getting Empowered Illusions but not sure where to take the points from. Yeah i prefer to keep my illusions/clones active i dont see the point in having traits that buff you and them only to destroy them for some rather poor effects with only CoF and Distortion being the only worth while ones

Dual Pistols would be epic.

However – people seem to think just because the class is strong (not OP imo) that all the bad things in the class – some of the traits, the phantoms doing like 50-60% of our damage) and of course the Shatter system that we should be happy the way it is, this ISNT about making the class OP, this is about:

1. Fixing the Shatter system
2. Bringing the Phantom damage back to the Mesmer and clones (maybe even remove Phantoms altogether)
3. Fix up the Traits

What i think they could do is:

Remove Phantoms from ALL weapons and put all the damage lost into Clones so maybe they do 100s of damage instead of single digit damage as well as the Mesmer and then remove the Shatter system the way it is now and make it kinda like adrenaline for Warriors, except ours get filled when clones shatter Have it as a like 5 step thing:

1st step – Maybe have the Clones do a bit Extra damage for say 10seconds
2nd Step – Add Conditions to the above
3rd Step – Clones and Mesmer Do Extra damage
4th Step Clones and Mesmer Add More conditions with every attack
5th Step – All Clones are Transformed into Phantoms That deal Extra Damage as well as give conditions out

This way the Mesmer could decide when best to use The ability, Now currently we would lose Confuse and Distortion which are the better of the current shatter system effects – nothing to say that when the clones/phantoms die after using the new system that they cant either gives AoE conditions or give the Mesmer several Boons something like :

1st step – When Clones die they give 3 Random Conditions for 3 seconds
2nd Step – When Clones die they give 3 random Boons for 3 seconds
3rd Step -Combination of Steps 1 and 2
4th Step – When Clones die they give Confusion, Vulnerability and Bleeding for 5seconds
5th Step – When clones die they give Fury, Might and Retaliation for 10seconds

The stacks would be dependent on how many clones/phantoms were active at the time of using it – so if they had the whole bar filled up (Step 5) after the now Phantoms die they would give the Mesmer 3 stacks of Fury, Might and Retaliation for 10seconds

Thought it would be better giving booms/conditions then straight out damage Steps 1,2 and 3 to make it balanced (i hope) the Random Boons and Conditions will be from a select group so was thinking for Conditions – Immobilize, Chill, Cripple, Fear and Blind and the Boons get picked from Aegis, Protection, Stability and Vigor

So that the Step 1-3 are about giving protecting Boons to your self while giving movement impairing ones to the target this could be improved further with traist that could like gives conditions to all targets in the area and all boons to allies in the area as well maybe even add like a random control effect trait as well with different effects active depending on How many clones out and what level you use the new shatter ability seeing as how we dont really have that many control effects

The Build (Copy Link): http://gw2skills.net/editor/en/?fgAQNAsaWlwzqq3QzpGaNJh5D9+MDqHdUFweJF4O3A;T0AA1CtoqxUjoGbNuak1swYgxBjHGTMA

i was wondering what you guys think about my build? its for Spvp (maybe even Tpvp when i find right guild)

Gameplay style wise i try to keep illusions/Clones up as long as possible getting the 9% damage increase, 9% Damage Reduction and increased movement speed with more Illusions/clones active

I dont like using Shattering and will only use it in dire situations for Distortion mostly as the rest arent worth using and losing all the benefits in my opinion. I go with Staff most of the time, as i am more of a support kinda player but go with Sword/Pistol for Phantom Dualist and Blurred Frenzy is great I try to use iLeap or Magic Bullet to set up a Blurred Frenzy attack so they cant move (so annoying that moving what so ever uses the the cool down -.-)

Use Phase Retreat to get some range if needed as well and try to get Warlocks or Dualists up as often as i can

I havent experienced any that just expire – they either die from damage taken or die when target (the second one being a total JOKE!)

@Dess – the point of Phantoms ISNT to confuse your target(s) they are there for damage. Phantom Dualist for example does silly damage though that is countered by the fact that they stand and do nothing while they “recharge” it would be better if reduced the damage they did as well as making them do a more constant damage as well as making the Mesmer and clones a bit more stronger

My post from another thread :

I think Phantoms need a reason to be killed, at the moment sure they do good damage but its nothing that i find an enemy will specifically go after the phantoms to kill them as they die with the slightly damage so most of the time a quick auto attack while charging towards the mesmer will normally see them die – even with all the health bonuses from traits/skills

For Example -

Phantom Dualist doesnt wait like 5-10seconds between each barrage of bullets, but casts Magic Bullet say every 6seconds or something

Phantom Warlock – I rarely use this so not so sure but just like the dualist i see it standing around doing nothing most of the time. Have it Cast Winds of Chaos giving Booms and Buffs out to those it hits say bounce 3 times on say a 3 second cool down

The whole Shatter idea is STUPID – when you get traits and healing with Clones/Phantoms up you shouldnt be forced to lose them in order to get some mediocre damage (Mind Wreck is awful imo) Cry of Frustration and Diversion are decent BUT thanks to how broken Shatter is they are useless 99% of them time – They have to travel to the target which is stupid, they get stuck in terrain which is stupid

I can at times have 3 Phantom Duelists up at a time WHY would i want to lose all that dps for a rubbish damage ability (Mind Wreck) or 2 abilities that IF they worked would be good but never 100% that they will – why is it Distortion gives you the buff instantly when they die no matter how far away they are while the others they have to run into the target for it…

Shatter (if fixed) should ONLY work on Clones, that or reduce the damage that the Phantoms do and give it back to the Mesmer, maybe even buff the clones up – them doing like single digit damage is just so annoying

Or

Make it so that Phantoms blow up and really buff up the shatter abilities to make it worth while…This could be a problem with how Many illusions and Clones you have out – but seeing how little damage the clones do i think having 3 clones and 3 Phantoms out at the same time would be that bad – counter it by reducing the damage the Phantoms do maybe?

Then only the Phantoms blow up – Mind Wreck could have its damage like doubled, so it hits for like 3,000 damage (1,000 per a Phantom) that would actually make Mind Wreck worth using – so you get the choice, keep the sustained damage or go for burst damage now

Cry of Frustration and Diversion should NOT require Phantoms to run up to the target and they should give more of the condition for each number of Phantoms killed – Cry Of Frustration should be 2seconds per a Phantom killed and do more damage when they sure abilities, Diversion should cause Daze for 1 second per a Phantom – Now these may sound Over powered but you take into consideration all the cool down times – Maybe even increase Mind Wreck to 30seconds (25 traited), Cry Of Frustration to 45seconds (40 traited), Diversion to 55seconds (50traited) and Distortion to stay at 60seconds but 55 traited

That way the Mesmer wont be able to just summon and instantly kill them for Over Powered damage/effects

Also, Change Mirror Images – So that it summons 3 clones and you can press it say every 5 seconds to swap places with one of your clones this would actually make it a challenge for people to know which is the real you – Maybe even give them the same health as the Mesmer but make it so they take alot more damage from abilities after all they shouldnt be tanks or anything but they should confuse people – so if the mesmer has say 24,000 health the clones that are summoned with that but if the Mesmer has been hit and now instead of having 24,000 health they have say 13,000 then the clones are summoned with it but can get back to full health (of 24,000)

Maybe even change Ether Feast – rather then a silly additional health bonus – the Clones (only clones) all run up to the Mesmer (will be close anyway) and explode giving the Mesmer say 4,000healing Per a Clone destroyed – now may seem like alot but i have sen other classes go from near death to near full health in Spvp quite often, our healing ability is kinda meh

Signet of Illusions could then me change – too bump up the damage/condition duration of the new shatter rather then just reset it, this would lead to the Mesmer saying, if i use Signet my illusions (both Clones and Phantoms) will lose alot of health but :

Mind Wreck will have 50% chance to Crit
Cry Of Frustration will increase the damage from Confuse by 25%
Diversion will cause the target(s) to be stunned for 2 seconds after Daze Ends (mind need altering)
Distoration will give a 3econd stealth – this could be before or after the distortion effect

I prefer the Staff and Sword/Pistol combo myself

from what i have read and every one i have spoken to – Condition is pretty useless – what weapons do you use? I use Conditions more as being a pain rather then relying on them for damage

I think Phantoms need a reason to be killed, at the moment sure they do good damage but its nothing that i find an enemy will specifically go after the phantoms to kill them as they die with the slightly damage so most of the time a quick auto attack while charging towards the mesmer will normally see them die – even with all the health bonuses from traits/skills

For Example -

Phantom Dualist doesnt wait like 5-10seconds between each barrage of bullets, but casts Magic Bullet say every 6seconds or something

Phantom Warlock – I rarely use this so not so sure but just like the dualist i see it standing around doing nothing most of the time. Have it Cast Winds of Chaos giving Booms and Buffs out to those it hits say bounce 3 times on say a 3 second cool down

The whole Shatter idea is STUPID – when you get traits and healing with Clones/Phantoms up you shouldnt be forced to lose them in order to get some mediocre damage (Mind Wreck is awful imo) Cry of Frustration and Diversion are decent BUT thanks to how broken Shatter is they are useless 99% of them time – They have to travel to the target which is stupid, they get stuck in terrain which is stupid

I can at times have 3 Phantom Duelists up at a time WHY would i want to lose all that dps for a rubbish damage ability (Mind Wreck) or 2 abilities that IF they worked would be good but never 100% that they will – why is it Distortion gives you the buff instantly when they die no matter how far away they are while the others they have to run into the target for it…

Shatter (if fixed) should ONLY work on Clones, that or reduce the damage that the Phantoms do and give it back to the Mesmer, maybe even buff the clones up – them doing like single digit damage is just so annoying

Or

Make it so that Phantoms blow up and really buff up the shatter abilities to make it worth while…This could be a problem with how Many illusions and Clones you have out – but seeing how little damage the clones do i think having 3 clones and 3 Phantoms out at the same time would be that bad – counter it by reducing the damage the Phantoms do maybe?

Then only the Phantoms blow up – Mind Wreck could have its damage like doubled, so it hits for like 3,000 damage (1,000 per a Phantom) that would actually make Mind Wreck worth using – so you get the choice, keep the sustained damage or go for burst damage now

Cry of Frustration and Diversion should NOT require Phantoms to run up to the target and they should give more of the condition for each number of Phantoms killed – Cry Of Frustration should be 2seconds per a Phantom killed and do more damage when they sure abilities, Diversion should cause Daze for 1 second per a Phantom – Now these may sound Over powered but you take into consideration all the cool down times – Maybe even increase Mind Wreck to 30seconds (25 traited), Cry Of Frustration to 45seconds (40 traited), Diversion to 55seconds (50traited) and Distortion to stay at 60seconds but 55 traited

That way the Mesmer wont be able to just summon and instantly kill them for Over Powered damage/effects

Also, Change Mirror Images – So that it summons 3 clones and you can press it say every 5 seconds to swap places with one of your clones this would actually make it a challenge for people to know which is the real you – Maybe even give them the same health as the Mesmer but make it so they take alot more damage from abilities after all they shouldnt be tanks or anything but they should confuse people – so if the mesmer has say 24,000 health the clones that are summoned with that but if the Mesmer has been hit and now instead of having 24,000 health they have say 13,000 then the clones are summoned with it but can get back to full health (of 24,000)

Maybe even change Ether Feast – rather then a silly additional health bonus – the Clones (only clones) all run up to the Mesmer (will be close anyway) and explode giving the Mesmer say 4,000healing Per a Clone destroyed – now may seem like alot but i have sen other classes go from near death to near full health in Spvp quite often, our healing ability is kinda meh

Signet of Illusions could then me change – too bump up the damage/condition duration of the new shatter rather then just reset it, this would lead to the Mesmer saying, if i use Signet my illusions (both Clones and Phantoms) will lose alot of health but :

Mind Wreck will have 50% chance to Crit
Cry Of Frustration will increase the damage from Confuse by 25%
Diversion will cause the target(s) to be stunned for 2 seconds after Daze Ends (mind need altering)
Distoration will give a 3econd stealth – this could be before or after the distortion effect

Me, i tend to start with Phase retreat, followed by Phantom Warlock, then go into WoC spam normally they die fast, if they dont Phase Retreat is normally back up so use that and go again

If its a elite then i go a bit different – First popping Mirror Images with Sword/Pistol combo, then use Magic Bullet, Phantom Dualist and then Blurred Frenzy can always use Illusionary Leap and swap to Staff if they hit hard Phantom Dualist does silly damage (think the most powerful phantom we have?) so normally they die fast

If its a mob, tend to open with Phase Retreat, Phantom Warlock and then pop Chaos Storm and then spam WoC into them

Dess.4391:

Tbh i dont know how anyone can consider 3 dazes (if you spread you clones they can shater at diferent times dazing theyr target 3 times for 1 sec each) or 3 (4 if traited) second of invulnerablility useless…. Even more when you can cast it in the middle of another cast without breaking it.
The thing with mesmers its almost every skill they have seems to be situational and you have to decide really fast what would be best to use. Dont get me wrong its also the fun part.

The problem being that:

1. Mesmers are far too reliant on phantoms for doing damage, plus we get if trait-ed 9% extra damage increase as well as 9% damage reduction with 3 clones/phantoms out…why would/should we have to remove that for the class mechanic?

2. Shattering doesnt always work, some times they get stuck in the ground and such and take to long to find the target and shatter

Sure, confuse and distortion are both great abilities however – they are very situational and require losing ALOT of dps and such in order to get them, are they worth it? in my opinion…No.

AnubisXy.5713:

I’d also add in two new weapons, a main-hand ranged weapon that deals direct damage

Dual Pistol Mesmer would be SICK!

My Mesmer uses the Staff and Sword/Pistol combo and i dont really have that much issue with it,

My Talent set is : 0/20/15/25/10

I use Phantasmal Fury, Deceptive Evasion, Illusionary Defense, Compounding Celerity, Persisting Images and Compounding Power

Utility Skills are Ether Feast, Signet of Illusions, Mirror Images, Feedback and Moa Morph

Works fine for me, dont really have THAT many issues i win some i lose some, i can be a pain which is always great fun – i tend to not use the Shatter abilities unless its too Confuse or distortion as Daze is pretty work and not worth losing all that dps/conditions

In my opinion, they should remove the phantasms altogether, we are FAR too reliant on them. Then increase Clone and player damage to compensate for the lost damage (Pistol Phantom does sick damage) , Make the clones use the same combo of weapons as the mesmer has

So if they have the Staff equipped they should use Staff abilities (minus ones that create clones and phantoms) Maybe even have them doing the exact same attacks as the mesmer, just doing less damage

Though this would create the issue of what happens when changing weapon – maybe they could make it so the clones change weapon as well? or make it so that the amount of clones you had out get re-recreated with the new weapon set?

I Think the shatter mechanic should be totally redesigned, maybe changed into a phantasm sort of deal – like :

F1 creates a phantom that deals more damage then clones

F2 creates a phantom that deals little damage but causes confusion on special attacks – so it uses confusion then its given a cool down, say 10 seconds and in that time it casts a basic attack (based on Mesmer weapon),

F3 Creates a phantom that just like F2 but causes Daze instead of confusion

F4 creates a phantom that deals no damage but takes all the damage that the mesmer would have taken for X number of seconds

Might have been nice to link the build as well….

In my opinion it would be nice if the Shatters were actually useful, i mean whats the point in having all the clones and such if they get destroyed, plus with traits and such that give up to 9% extra damage or 9% damage reduction you are less inclined to want to blow them up.

What makes it all worse for the ones that damage and give them conditions is the time it takes as they have to run all the way over there and if you are using Range ones that takes too long, it would be better if it was instant and that they shattered and like turned into “bullet” like effect and flew at the target rather then them having to run all the way up to them.

I also hate how they die as soon as a target is killed, that is VERY useless in group fights they should be out until they die not until they die or the target does as that only works in 1vs1 situations

I also think Mirror Images should create 3 clones rather then 2, it would be nice if they moved when you did and such, or make “random” movements as its VERY easy to tell which one is the real mesmer – its the one that is moving far to often clones will just stand there

Overall i think they are decent, shatters need to be reworked for sure into something that BENEFITS the mesmer as well as the clones/phantoms rather then destroying them