Guild Wars 2

less complex than that.

Boss winds up for big attack
F3 gogo aegis.
zero damage.

blinds, frost bow #5
reflects
these things.

Passive defense being
toughness/vitality
protection (sort of, eg hammer guard)

Many people aren’t good enough to time active defenses (which usually have quite long durations too.
Many use ping as an excuse, but with practice you can compensate for this, unless its over about 1/2-1s. In which case I would whine to my isp or get a new router.

Pretty sure ranger meta is still GS + sword/warhorn.
Maul is a nasty little burst. and the evade is handy for tougher bosses.
Frost spirit and spotter isn’t selfish either.

wauwi.9162:

Urgh. Imma hop on the pug QQ bandwagon now, hope you got donuts on board…i’m hungry for them right now.

But then again, it’s the nature of PUGs.
I don’t know a single online game, no matter the genre, where PUGing isn’t a complete lottery.

But surprisingly, most of the time, i have PUGs with actual brains. I even learn new stuff sometimes, from hardcore dungeoneers.

LOL. I have cookies?

Yeah, its highly frustrating sometimes. phlunts just don’t understand working as a team.
Think I saw active defenses mentioned earlier too.

Agreed. the phrase “pug” is quite problematic. This is why I wish to use “phlunt” to describe the braindead zombies.

I see much QQ about there being a “meta” and best traits/gear/weapons etc. And yet having options inherently means something is gonna be “best in slot” so to speak. Would these phlunts prefer no stats, 1 weapon per class etc? They’d QQ even more if anet did that to them

Casmurro.9046:

People that say that dungeons is just about stacking and pressing 1111 are too used to get carried by good groups. I was watching this video from woodenpotatoes where he was using his tank warrior in a SE p3 run, and i was cringing seeing how his group was helpless against that first boss that keeps stacking bleeds on the group, even his tank warrior was getting destroyed, and that boss can be killed very easily in a more coordinated group. So people saying that a non-meta build only adds like 2secs more to a speedrun pug dont really know what they are talking about.

This is the video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GILT1OnPqA0

Just gonna point point, the DnT dungeon tourny a couple of weeks ago, semi final was arah p4.
pug times are anything from 2-4 hours.
Speed run: 20 minutes.
2s off a fight my hairy behind.

:-)

wauwi.9162:

QQ about QQ – QQception.
But instead of ranting about players, thinking ALL dungeons bosses are like that and claim, that you’re so much better than those (which is kind of an elitist statement)

So.. where did I say I was better?
oh wait.. I did say they weren’t aware of what their team was doing. Which amounts to that. I concede, I am elitist for not wanting to run instances with braindead zombies. :-)

how about you teach them the optimal ways? Give them tips on how to be more benefical to your party, try to make them use combofields, party condi clears, party boons and tell them, that they should use CC attacks, when they see a boss channeling an attack, teach them how to aggro a boss, withouth triggering his PUG wipes.

And just pray to whatever god you believe in, that the necro in your party actually listens and stops with the fear, if you say to him/her to stop doing fear.

See my post about guildies who are good/willing to get better?
Phlunts usually are not (willing to get better that is).
Cannot teach those who do not wish to learn.

Ayrilana.1396:

RSLongK.8961:

Whut? i am lost. Last time i did this with my low lvl engie i soloed everything unitl boss where ppl where waiting?
What is the trouble?

It requires too much effort. That’s the trouble.

effort isn’t the issue.

effort:reward is the issue.

lol. Thankfully I only run with guildies 90% of the time.
Most of them are either good, or willing to get better, usually both. Its quite nice. Playing drunk often helps when dealing with the phlunts minds you.

deSade.9437:

Miku Lawrence.6329:

deSade.9437:

Anyway… yeah, for a second I thought he misspelled citadel of flame…

That would be the most severe case of misspelling I ever seen in Guild Wars 2.

That’s because you didn’t see all the spelling errors in “I’m too bad and can’t l2p therefore I’ll blame the game mechanics”.
You wouldn’t even believe it.

oh how I wish this was trolling.. But I know better
Ignorance is bliss.

First up,
I recommend using:
http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/

Makes it easier to see the build/stats etc.
Might take a little getting used to, but you can view traits, equipment, skills, alternate skills, stats, and anything else I’ve forgotten about easily.

Second up,
Bleeds with longbow are very bad.
You will get better results with a shortbow.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQJAVRjEqUwaJLWsQ1aA/gadDEAdeveg7F0Bl4LvA-TBSFABrpDYQlgA8AA89CAQo6P0s/AaaCWS5ngAUE-e

Something like this.

Note this is more of a build for mapping and exploring.

This sorta thing for dungeons, and stuff.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQNBMhFakRlWVLZxiFuWDsHUrDgAe052BfgvqoEn4F-TxRBABXp8DP9BEt/AAnCg8eCAUq+jZKBFEQ5A-e

1h sword is a pain to use mind you, so ranger isn’t popular.

maha.7902:

Asmodeus.5782:

There is quite a difference between being unable to keep up and considering something to be a boring, borderline-exploit farming technique.

I’m not really sure how stacking is a borderline exploit.

If a mob dumps an aoe on you, you’ll die whether you’re grouped up in a corner or grouped up in the open if you don’t bother to mitigate it in any way, the simple act of grouping up together doesn’t actually do anything.

But now it just seems like we’re moving in to the territory of people defining things they dislike as exploits so I’m not sure if it’s worth arguing this.

Try “speeding up the pace to the point the game mechanics can’t keep up and mobs don’t even fire their skills before they die”.

There are very few examples post-FGS that I can actually think this applies. Bosses, especially so in your average group are always allowed to cast skills quite frequently.

Sounds to me like there was a frost bow #5 fired tbh. Or any other kind of hard CC. but apparently CC is an exploit, because you can kill the boss before it can hit you ;-)

Shrug. baddies will be bad.
As for raids. I just hope anet has learned that 150 people does not make for fun coordinated events. 10-25 would be a realistic size for most guilds (who want something more than 5 man dungeons). Id still be happy with a few more along the lines of TA:AE but with rewards that justify to time/effort to learn and then complete it repeatedly.

Asmodeus.5782:

Actually, the only way I enter dungeons is by making my own ‘no stacking’ lfgs. But from the few experiences I’ve had with stacking teams, it all boiled down to burning all available skills in the shortest time available… And always worked. Truth to be told, at those times I did use the necessary skills you mentioned, but still the fights were bazillion times easier than fought properly. Embarrasingly quick, easy, chaotic and pointless.

Facerolling – which is what you are describing is the fastest way for a pure zerker team to get their kitten handed to them on a silver plate.

It may look like faceroll, but it actually requires very fast reflexes, and perfectly timed ( sometimes within 1/4s) skill usage.

Allow me to fix your post:

Asmodeus.5782:

Actually, the only way I enter dungeons is by making my own ‘no stacking’ lfgs. But from the few experiences I’ve had with stacking teams, it all boiled down to selecting and timing skills perfectly to counter opponents… And always worked. Truth to be told, at those times I did use the necessary skills you mentioned, and found I was more successful. however found it hard to keep up with the very fast paced combat of gw2.

Beldin.5498:

hybrid.5027:

If the Guardian doesn’t grant stability at the right time, the group wipes. If the ele doesn’t Ice Bow 5 at the right time the group wipes. If the team doesn’t dodge the 1hk mechanic the group wipes. If the thief doesn’t black powder the trash mobs the group wipes.

I wonder how people managed in the past to do speedruns with something like 4 warriors and 1 mesmer .. when they thought that was the best setup.

that was a typical set up for cof p1. Famously easy dungeon.
Try that setup in arah, or even coe (without knowing when to dodge) and you’re gonna have a rough time.

It is also pug friendly because warrior is quite forgiving to kitten ups because of the high health pool.

Also, as stated above, if anyone thinks the meta is “stack, press 1 and win” you are being carried to the extent, the other 4 would be better off without you.

in all honestly, an equivalent to TA:AE for every non-80 exp dungeon would be nice to see.
Just needs a little better reward. TA:AE should probably be giving 3g at the end, not 2.
Then again I’d like to see arah1/2/4/ta:ae give more like 5g (not purely in cash would be better, for an economy in a state of flux). +the rng chance of a super rare (tradeable) skin. Even if it is just a much fancier version of the dungeon skin.

They are less forgiving of the inexperienced, and as such require time investment, as well as gear investment to be doable. Which is pretty much what people seem to want.

Then add in a few more level 80 only dungeons as we unlock new zones, and in theory new enemies. Mord or Kralk themed dungeon? Glints revenge – this could be fun.

Crucial is the ability to repeat paths – at least on alts. If people start farming a single dungeon insanely (which is why we need material rewards, not gold) then the rewards of the more technically challenging (for the player) dungeons need to be re-evaluated ( in terms of rewards). Of course with item value in flux, farming a single dungeon wouldn’t pay off anyway.

RemiRome.8495:

Chuck.8196:

There are 18 mini-dungeons.

Heh. Funny.

But the wiki says so! It must be true!

Wow. I think I’ve done maybe 5 of them?

Shame the rewards are terrible – unless you are one of the unfortunate people to have to do this new trait system.

in the example of CM, the purloined goods bags would need ~50%+ chance to drop from every single foe. Even then it would be debatable since they mostly drop less valuable materials.

EG did balth chain yesterday: 20+ large moldy bags, 30+ heavy moldy bags (selling on tp for nearly 10s).
One would need 50+ bags in a single CM path to be comparable, especially given the loot from the cm bags is typically worth much less. Moreover killing all the mobs would result in a much longer dungeon, and the loot would also need to compensate for that.

Maybe add 10-25 of those loot bags to the daily reward for each path?
Or add 5-10 to each chest along the way?

Adding fine/masterwork/rare champ bags to veterans or elites is a very bad idea though. Not to mention that wouldn’t buff dungeon loot much at all. It would buff open world trains much more.

x pristine relics for asc weapon/armor chest?
on top of the abysmal rng for one of course.

~25-50 seems reasonable fair to me.

Edit: allow us to trade in rings/asc chests we dont want for 1/5 pristine relics also?

I’d be ok with a huge buff to dungeon mob loot, however, adding “veteran bags” similar to champs across the game is definitely not the way to do it. GG on reintroducing queensdale train. Making the loot direct drop, and re-introducing directly dropped cash (so the gold find buffs are worth more than an extra 10c).

one option is mobs drop level specific loot (being able to get linen etc) and the chests drop level specific loot, so at 80, you get t5/6 fine mats much more frequently.

I still like the idea of 1-5 (mf based) t6 from the final chest though).

Along with being able to repeat a path on a different toon for the same quantity of loot (chests, end gold etc).

Overview
I liked the way gw1 had unlocks.

Goal
Stagger the cost of functionality. Include all the functionality – this exists in wvw already. including option to go to, and port back to original location.

Detail
So I’m all for a “guild hall” button that teleports you to the GH. Leave guild hall button would be awesome too.

I’m all for adding every crafting station, tp, merchants, mystic forge etc via some upgrade cost – influence and merits being my preferred currency.

vanquish..?
That’d be arah even more dead than currently.
even P3 would take probably an hour +
And p4?
See you in a couple of days lads..

Seriously.. 5000% more loot and i might agree with the idea.
Anything less and dungeons would never be entered again.

Bloodyhell.8760:

There’s something I want to add to these suggestions. It happened yesterday that I was pugging in ac, and there was a guardian healer in the party (shame on me to not have regroup elsewhere…). Well, he flamed on the fact that he rather never get an exotic bag from champion kill because of the low damage his hits do.

Apart from any consideration of “why the hell a Guardian healer come in Ac and why he still exist in the game” (I totally agree btw), is it a real mechanic of the game? Anyone knows? Cause if it is, it seems broken to me.

People think there should be trinity.
healer
dps
tank

What the masses seem to miss is that the trinity is this:
DPS
CC
Support (blinds, aegis etc)

Also, one can do all 3 on the exact same build, by simply swapping utilities between fights, or by using different skills (whirling wrath vs binding blade vs virtue of justice).

Also some people like slow fights that take several minutes, vs fast intense, 3-10s fights. Made worse by the fact many think the difference is “just a few seconds” as opposed to the reality of several minutes difference with each fight.

This problem you face, is why dungeons are a real drag to get groups together for. Personally not so much of an issue, we train people within our guild, but for many, guilds are just services(buffs, missions)/event rostas (or taxi services) for zergfests like 3h wurm.

Many people don’t realize (often they don’t believe me) that my guardian can sustain around 8k dps in a coordinated group, as well as aegis, blind/reflect when needed (key being when needed, not just spam brainlessly). In clerics that same guardian might achieve 2-3k dps. 8k, vs 2-3k. Scale that across 5 people, and you’re looking at 10-15k vs ~50k/s dps (guardian is certainly not the highest dps class).

This is why dungeons are VASTLY underwhelming compared to zerging with “play it your way” mentality (meaning they do what they want and kitten the impact on everyone else in this multiplayer game).

As harper said, dungeon rewards used to be good. Now they are pretty equal to zerging. Yeah thats because material prices have doubled. Dungeon rewards should have scaled with the economy better – more t6 over gold would work well. Or make the chests affected by magic find so more rares/exotics.

Make dungeons repeatable on different toons – this might result in people farming one dungeon path. Using materials as rewards rather than gold would probably fix this – people farm to much, dungeon rewarded materials fall in price due to supply – profitable to move to other dungeons.

I think that would be in the “rewarding chest at the end”.

But yeah, a stable reward making dungeons reasonably worth it, with something super pretty/asc behind rng would be nice. I’m sure anet can design some asc skins that are dungeon themed.

maybe asc flashy armor/weapons could use 10 times more tokens than the exotic versions, and the HM dungeon award more tokens?

Jerus.4350:

Jerus.4350:

HELL kittenING NO

kitten THE RNG

I figured I’d just quote myself I’ve had a 15+ year relationship with the RNG and at this point I just do my best to avoid it

That looks a lot like high-5ing yourself.
Though it may be the whisky.

./derail

That’s why I was thinking dungeons need to be bit better with the t6 drops.
It would be nice if the chests along the way were affected by magic find (thus had more chance of rare/exotics for the veteran players). Not sure how well this would go over, since many have a skewed vision due to diminish returns (play more toons!).

Having flashy asc gear (weapons and armor) drop from a hard mode dungeon (level 80 version) would be cool. Like ta aether, an improved (debatable for ta:ae) visual look, along with being ascended. Stats could be selection of those available in that dungeon. Drop rate a bit higher than ta:ae though..
I’d like to see a bit more gold drop from the end (possibly more tokens too), simply because I would want them to be more challenging and therefore take longer to complete. Gotta make it worth the effort, even if you don’t get extremely lucky.

One reason you may get kicked, is because experienced players do not want to carry you.
They want someone who can do decent dps for their class. Provide the utility their class should provide.

e.g, I had a condi spec, 3 signet ranger, with a bear join a fractal 40 the other day. Honestly it would have been quicker to 4man than run with that type of player.

Having bad skills equipped is kinda like an “I am noob” badge. Consider asking the rest of the party to complete the dungeon with a lead ball chained to their ankles. What is a “good” run for you, may be a terrible run for them, because they had to do all the work to carry you.

This is also the result of the learning curve being hidden from new players, and being difficult to see until you are significantly progressed along it ( and experienced the better builds, tactics, and strategies).

http://gw2dungeons.net/?Builds

^ has some good meta builds.
Don’t take this to mean those are the only builds/options. Just be able to justify the choices you make. If that justification is something like “I die to much” strap up in knights armor and watch the kitten foe for attacks! dodge key exists.
Also learn to blind/aegis/reflect/move your fat behind to their fat behind (also known as standing behind your foe).

hybrid.5027:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

hybrid.5027:

How many times per hour can you do that Arah chain? How many times per hour can you do the balth temple?

As described you made 8g in one hour. And the person you’re quoting said “without selling the drops or salvaging tokens for ecto.”

Dwayna.
Grenth.
Melandru.
Lyssa (maybe not so much).
Assuming each gave 3g each (last twice grenth gave more like 6g+ in the 6 minute farm at the end alone).
All of which I could do in the other 40 minutes of my hour.

I’d only need to make 2g in 40 minutes to match the quoted dungeon gold. The drops in dungeons aren’t going to add that much more to the value of the runs, compared to what repeating temples ( or other champ farms) net.

You can’t do all those on demand. The chances of all (or even many) of those events coming up in a given hour is slim to none. And if they did come up, the chances being able to do all of them in an hour is slim to none.

FWIW, if I sold everything I go from a dungeon tour, you’re looking at 60g in 3 hours.

and yet there is almost always something up in the map(s) I land in.
Then we have the world boss schedule & pres are often very lucrative.
Especially when they can be repeated within a single day.

Also, you can’t do efficient dungeon runs on demand. Gotta find the group and have people stay, or find replacements.

Also, I did the numbers and I’d estimate closer to 45g/3 hours (If a good dungeon running group is available).

Also, remember I only counted t5/6 fine mats, and rares for post tax gold.
If i were to include blues/greens/anything else it would be considerably higher also

Open wold: faceroll without any dodging, or worry about gear.

Dungeons: need zerker + meta builds with people who have experience of the dungeons for dodges etc.
Fractals: need asc gear and agony resistance, and the rewards there are pretty mediocre too.

Where’s the incentive to learn to play well, rather than just zerg spamming auto attacks?
I’d love harder dungeons, if the reward is there to justify the effort to learn. Problem is there isn’t enough justification for the majority of players to learn the easy dungeons well.

Also, I like the idea of prestigious skins (ideally asc boxes similar to teq/wurm) gated behind hard mode dungeons.

LordByron.8369:

Yes hours …
At prime time Eu.

I m an avid fotm player (and recently since mesmer fix i play cm and other stuff).
Its not i don t find groups suiting my profession, i just don t find any lfg.

Want to join my guild?
My co-leader and I are EU timed, and always looking for fresh blood for speedy runs.

Couldn’t resist throwing this out when I read your post

GrimmR.3541:

Yes please.
I would highly appreciate making more gold by facerolling content. Lets add a guaranteed legendary at the end of each path!
/sarcasm off
Just imagine the hate the “elitists“ will get when they make even more gold..

zerg events are even more faceroll than dungeons.
zerg events give more loot than dungeons.

you’re point is..?

hybrid.5027:

How many times per hour can you do that Arah chain? How many times per hour can you do the balth temple?

As described you made 8g in one hour. And the person you’re quoting said “without selling the drops or salvaging tokens for ecto.”

Dwayna.
Grenth.
Melandru.
Lyssa (maybe not so much).
Assuming each gave 3g each (last twice grenth gave more like 6g+ in the 6 minute farm at the end alone).
All of which I could do in the other 40 minutes of my hour.

I’d only need to make 2g in 40 minutes to match the quoted dungeon gold. The drops in dungeons aren’t going to add that much more to the value of the runs, compared to what repeating temples ( or other champ farms) net.

calyx.9086:

While I won’t argue against better rewards for dungeons, your argument is pretty dumb.

“Certainly with an organized, skilled group, they are almost as rewarding as a boss/ champ train.”

Hmm, I make at least 20g in 2 hours of dungeons a night, not including tokens and drops. Way more rewarding than a champ train or doing world bosses. Plus it’s actually fun as compared to zerging and pressing 1.

“Also, why should anyone gear anything but a warrior (easiest class to play)?”

Because other classes are enjoyable? Because if there is another warrior in the group, it’s good to be able to switch to another class since you only ever should want one warrior in your group?

I just did the Arah invasion. 5g worth of stuff (post tp tax) ~5 minutes. 3g on the balth temple (also post tp tax) in about 10 minutes.

Edit: this is only counting t5/6 fine mats, and rares.
Makes 20g in 2 hours look a bit weak, no?

As for multiple classes, My reasoning is the same as yours. Sadly the vast majority won’t see it that way.

Posting here in a new thread because I can’t find the reward balancing thread for the life of me.

Dungeon rewards feel far too low. Certainly with an organized, skilled group, they are almost as rewarding as a boss/ champ train.
But that requires highly skilled players, specific builds, skill changes regularly etc.
Fractals even has a heavy gear gating to it.

The effort:reward ratio is wacky.

Also, why should anyone gear anything but a warrior (easiest class to play)?
You can’t repeat the dungeon with alts (you can, but the rewards for doing so are comparable to farming white mobs).

Proposals:
1)restore full rewards for running dungeons on alts.
2)increase crafting material drops
3)balance end-gold better.
4) restore karma gain

Further explanation:
1)
Justifies gearing alts.
Allows guilds to train people by re-running paths with other toons.

2)
Crafting materials (such as t6 fines) are much easier gotten from mindless zergfest champ trains. Not what I would call “legendary”. Effort:reward ratio issue.
One idea was to add a specific tier 6 fine material to each dungeon, and award 1-5 for each path.
Commonly ran dungeons would result in a lower value reward, while the less ran dungeons(which would typically be the harder ones) would yield higher net value.

3)
Effort:reward & time:reward is pretty wack here. Suggestion in item 2 may provide solution for this however.

4)
I’m forced to do teq, lower level fotm, or eotm zerg train for it. Again Effort:reward.

Sorry to those who disagree (there are many from what I can tell), but skilled players should get better rewards. Being able to spam 1 with a 1500 range longbow ranger should not yield the same(currently better) rewards than highly skilled, balanced and well geared groups of players.

Linking to the guild CDI thread, people asked for raids.
The intent seemed to be 2 directs:

1) the ability to 10-15 zerg a dungeon (or comparable difficulty content) (because they are too “hard”).
2) tougher dungeons (instanced content) with better rewards.

The former is (partly) because there aren’t enough skilled players around to train the less skilled.
The latter is because the skilled players are bored.
Both: highly skilled players have left the game out of boredom.

FrostSpectre.4198:

Good examples of more varied mob design are Mordrem so far, full DPS berserker is near suicide against them, solo or group.

That is more learn to dodge, learn to avoid aoes, learn to get behind the mob so it can’t hit you, bring condi removal, etc.

Honestly it is only suicide if you expect the same type of fight as you do vs shatterer (afk auto attack fest). oddly enough you can move while attacking (unless 1h sword ranger, but lets not go there..).

The joys of a hidden learning curve so the game isn’t daunting to noobs ey?

Allelya.6830:

Quoting Brother Grimm “running proper builds”

They said we wouldn’t have to worry about cookie cutter builds. That’s all there ever is. It’s this build or you’re bad, get out. Really sick of this mentality and the fact that the game requires it.

Traits do make a huge difference.
zerker gear is without doubt best stat, because a corpse wont attack you (dont bring up undead, i’m not including those in my umbrella term corpse).

If LEARNING content, go for knights. You’ll take more aggro, which is good for you learning. Also transitioning to zerker becomes easier.

IF however you don’t want “meta” we should have no gear or trait options at all. Then there won’t be a “best is slot” type of situation.
So.. no armor stats, no weapon stats, no sigils, no runes, no traits. Is this really what you want?

Palador.2170:

Gain influence from non-repping members at a reduced rate.
Improved guild chat.
Guild alliances.

agree with the first 2.
Alliances in the gw1 sense I dont think are needed if inf is earned for each guild and one can see guild chat from each.

multi-guild influence generation
Multi-guild chats
Things for 5-15 size groups

(more than party, less than map. look at 3h wurm.. TTS to my knowledge has 5000 people and only gets 150 for a wurm reliably at reset and sometimes at weekends)

JonPeters.5630:

I see a lot of talk about alliances. Two questions on that front:

1) What functionality would you like to get out of an alliance?
2) What makes you want alliances?

1) Functionality:
The ability to interact with other guilds of my choosing (not my guild leader, or any other persons choosing).

My influence generated for each of my guilds.

Able to see guild chat for each of my guilds. Possibly guilds I am not currently representing being in an alliance chat type of channel (with guild tags displayed).
Ability to type in each guild using a separate /chat option would be nice too.

To not get hassled by my guild leader about repping (or have to be the hassle giver).

Alliance to be a polish on the multi-guild concept.

Removal of the non-representing icon. (only necessary if other functionality is in place).

2) The ability to be in a PvX guild that is cross server AND be in a server dedicated WvW guild. This is pretty necessary with megaserver.
Also the removal of hassles caused by non-representation (root cause being influence, and chat).

Grevender.9235:

The ideal scenario would let you join one guild, then make your way to as many alliances you want (I see no point in limiting the numbers of alliances), alliance chat and whatever tools would be needed to be sure to cover all social aspects and let friends keep in touch even in different guilds, but I also would like to have the ability to see the guild grow by itself and become independent from the officers, let’s say “vision based” rather than “work based”.

This isn’t really what most people want. Your still suggesting tieing people to a single guild. What if a guild doesn’t want their rosta filled up with people who don’t generate influence for them? Or for any other reason. Your just morphing the reason to grieve those players. Meaning guilds will still have a very cliche feel to them.

I can’t see why guild members would want me ( as their leader) to dictate which guilds they are allied with (rigid gw1 alliances). At the same time I don’t want to have to make that facist imposment upon them.

The multiple guild concept allows each person to forge their own alliance. We just need to remove the root causes of grieving. Influence and chat limitations of representation.

Ohoni.6057:

Multiguilders have already their way and their reasons, so what about giving Home Guilders solid reasons and tools to also have their way? Make committing to a single guild worth it through specialization, and have the bonus make up for renouncing to hopping, make loyalty count.

I tend to think that home-guilders need to earn loyalty, not command it. If I belonged to multiple active guilds, and enjoyed doing that, I wouldn’t want to feel like I was missing out by not committing to a single co-dependent guild. If you have a tight “home guild” and you want your members to stick with your guild, then make it a fun place to be, have a nice community and smooth activities and people will want to stay. If they don’t, then they were never yours to begin with. You shouldn’t be given special tools to bribe people into hanging out with you (although you might want to try actually bribing players into hanging out with you, start sending them money and prizes and they might stick around).

Pretty sure they meant the individual, not the guild..

Edit:
Also we don’t want to be tied to one guild, we just want to feel part of it while enjoying the game with others.

See previous posts about earning influence for ones entire alliance of guilds, multi-guild-chats, and removing the “not representing” icon since it would no longer be relevant (except for egotistical guilds that want their guild tag displayed 24/7).

Improve the multi-guild functionality, not punish those who use it (indirectly by rewarding those who don’t use it or otherwise).

Chris Whiteside.6102:

I do like the idea of alliances. There are a lot of associated gameplay and meta social opportunities.

Chris

Indeed. So do many of the players. The feedback I got from discussions is that people do NOT want the rigid alliances of gw1 though. They want to forge their own alliance of guilds (pretty much what the multiple guild idea achieves).

The problem is the current implementation causes a lot of grieving being members, and leadership. Mostly related to influence, partly related to lack of visibility of guild chat.

The other problem here is most people having these issues just find another guild (or stop caring and make their own private 1-man guild) rather than putting effort into bringing the issue to the forums and anet.

Linking this thread again as its relevent to my point here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Guilds-5/first#post4378848

This thread, although only has a small number of people discussing, does show the different viewpoints of a large proportion of your playerbase.

I would personally like to see influence I earn mirrored between all my guilds, but I can understand the need to balance this. Maybe reduce individual influence gain, but buff influence gained by groups from the same guild?

Visible representation in the guild window isn’t needed, while representation needs to exist for the displayed guild tag, and possible which guild /g chat broadcasts in. Other guilds could be merged into an “alliance chat” channel, which is visible, but the player can’t talk in (due to being confusing if you randomly popped up in another guilds chat with zero context).

Look into improving the current system to reduce the friction between members/leaders and guild A /guild X.
While allowing each player to create their own alliance. Don’t go for rigid guild leader cliche kind of alliance that we had in gw1.

The individual doesn’t want someone else telling them which guilds they are associated to (look at the grief 100% rep causes..).

My personal opinion would be I don’t want the number of guilds I can be in reduced either, but perhaps reducing it would increase the feeling of being part of each guild.

Edit: quoting wigged. This is about earning influence for all the guilds one is in, not just the guild represented.

Artemis Thuras.8795:

anzenketh.3759:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

Not Quite. Allow equal attachment to each guild I am in. Give my influence I earn equally to each guild. Give me the ability to view the guild chat of each guild (similar to alliances in gw1).

Now there is a idea. This would help the “Service” guilds and alleviate their pressure to require representation but still provide the function they were created for. Then the 100% rep requirements to player choice. Might be a good idea to add a last represented field just like there is a last logged in field. That way the leader of a guild can clean up their roster.

Though I would make that field only appear if your rank in guild allows you to view it.

The influence is only part of my (not strictly just mine.. I had a lot of ideas/discussions with guildies and other forum go-ers) idea.
I’m leaning towards the concept of representation being visibly removed from the guild window. It would still exist for the guild tag displayed (and possible which guild you talk in /g) while your other guilds could be separated in chat like alliance chat was in gw1.

In essence you would be fully part of each of your alliance of guilds. Last represented would be moot if they can always see your guild chat, and always generate influence for you.

The option to view that is interesting, but it would need to be public, or it would cause friction when/if someone gets booted from a guild. Members don’t want to think they might get kicked for (seemingly) no apparent reason. Bad juju.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

JonPeters.5630:

I see a variety of comments on feeling more attachment to a specific guild and a lot of talk of the # of guilds people are a part of and the fear that is causing a lack of attachment. This lack of attachment keeps players players from being compelled to belong to any of their guilds instead of being compelled to belong to all of them .

With all due respect Mr. Peters,

I believe the ability to join multiple guilds on this game is should not have existed at all. Very simply, it discourages guild loyalty and defeats the entire purpose of joining a guild in the first place.

Guilds are supposed to be a dedicated, close knit group of people. An ideal scenario would be a flourishing, active community in-game AND outside of the game, supported by communication programs such as IRC/forums/voice. The system now? Guilds having half the people not representing. Highly inactive/non-existent offsite interaction. Guilds are typically a hi-bye affair in the game.

People who say “I represent this guild today for WvW, then that guild tomorrow for PvE” – this isn’t how guilds are supposed to work. In my opinion anyway. Guilds are groups where people do different things together – not a “I come as I like” place. People who represent different guilds on different days as and when they like are akin to clan-hoppers.

But obviously, this isn’t just the fault of guild hoppers alone. The guild system design in this game is absolutely sub par – you want people to know as many different groups of people as possible, but do not allow players to participate in the chat of guilds they are not representing. This, to me is the biggest problem about the guild system, because it renders useless the participation of a player, simply because he/she does not know what is happening in other guilds.

I respect your decision to give people the ability to join multiple guilds, but I still believe it was a wrong one.

Not Quite. Allow equal attachment to each guild I am in. Give my influence I earn equally to each guild. Give me the ability to view the guild chat of each guild (similar to alliances in gw1).

I view the multiple guild thing as a replacement for alliances of gw1.

The core of the problem is the isolationist approach to guild chat (only seeing 1 at a time), and influence generation (only for one guild at a time).

There are too many people who (rightly so) want to be in multiple guilds. There are equally many guilds who are having to ask for them to represent exclusively, due to chat and influence limitations.

The individual wants his/her own alliance of guilds because guilds are specialized for certain things. Especially WvW/PvE/Spvp. You’ve pretty much encouraged this split focus due to the way megaserver works. Server is meaningless to a PvE (or sPvP) guild. As such we should be able to benefit from the larger, more diverse crowd. However WvW guilds have to be tied to server. The byproduct of mega server is this inherent split in focus and player base of the guilds. This creates the need for multiple guilds. However the way representation works results in guilds demanding representation from their members (some in better ways than others). This has resulted in heated, sometimes toxic interaction between leaders and members. Granted the idea needs polish, but as far as I can see its the best solution for the enjoyment of the game.

See discussion in this thread:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Guilds-5/first#post4378848

Seriously, make it so I am in each guild , not on (up to) five rostas, but only in one guild.

Effectively we should be able to create our own alliance of guilds.

Also, I love the idea of buffs having a per hour cost of influence and being maintained (like maintained enchantments vs timed duration enchantments in gw1). Reactivating buffs daily is such a chore!

Jon, I’d really like to hear your thoughts on this idea ( I did post earlier on the idea, though perhaps it needs some tidying up for clarity).

Proposal: (several linked ideas) remove visible representation, influence for all guilds, chat visible in all guilds.

Explanation
Allow each person to generate influence for each of the guilds they are in.

Also allow them to see the chat of each guild they are in, including guild tag (similar to gw1 AC chat).

Options:
1) /g works for the guild you “represent” (display the tag of).
2) add chat options for all guilds

Remove the visible representation icon

Reasoning
The concept of multi-repping is the source of much guild drama. People getting insta kicked for not repping, people getting grilled by officers. Officers having to go and find out why people are non repping etc. Its a huge headache for all involved.

The concept of 100% rep guilds (topic of much contention) exists SOLELY because of the costs of buffs, and the way influence is earned. This is why I would prefer to earn influence for ALL the guilds “I am in”, over “the one I represent”.

I often get asked "Why do I have to represent and help with buffs if <some other guildie> doesn’t have to!?
Similarly under the new system, guilds might demand people display their guild tag for some kind of showing off thing. Remove the visible representation icon as this would not be constructive to friendly atmosphere.

The concept of representation is also the bane of inter-guild cooperation.

The idea of multi-repping was to allow people to create their own alliances of guilds (as far as i can tell).
Currently I don’t feel “part” of other guilds, nor do members wishing to none rep feel “part” of my guild.
I want to see the chatter from ALL my guilds. I want to feel part of them all. not just part of 1 at a time.

Risks
Influence generation might need to be re-evaluated.
Cost of buffs definitely needs to be re-evaluated.
Balance may require people to be in fewer guilds. 3 was suggested to me.

My thoughts on this are based upon discussions with my co-leaders, and members. Additionally the discussion in this thread:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Guilds-5/first#post4378848

Agreed. We need content for medium size groups (roaming/medium size WvW is fine if everyone is into that).

Honestly, it seems like a minority that mind the 100% rep concept, but I admit it does cause friction.

Linking this thread again:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Guilds-5/first#post4378848

The idea I came up with from the discussion (im sure i’m not the first person to have this idea tbh).

Do away with the concept of repping.
You earn influence for each of your guilds.
Your chat works a little like Alliance chat in gw1(tags shown).
You can select which guild chat you wish to be talking in.
Reduce the guild cap to 3 (balance suggested by a friend)
Reduce influence each person earns (balance suggestion by friend – not sure on this)

This makes a guild feel more like a guild to me.
The only reason 100% rep exists is because of influence & the cost of buffs (re-evaluation of costs needed tbh).
Removes friction caused by the concept of “non-repping”
Allows people to create their own alliance over being in a rigid (Gw1 style) alliance. This is what the multiple guild idea should achieve.

Planning to drop the idea into the CDI thread later too.

Tested with a guildie last night. Only seemed to work if partied up, or on friends lists.

Astralporing.1957:

The guild roster does show you are offline, but it also shows the zone you are in, so if you move, it is easily noticeable.

Does it show location to entire guild or just you?
I’ll test with a couple of guildies later to see. If we can tell it’d be quite interesting what people are up to.

Edit: extension of influence counting for every guild one is in.. Allow the ability to toggle which guild chats you wish to see (and which chat you talk in).

These could be distinguished by including the guild tag in with the persons name in guild chat.
Integrating guilds into chat might be tricky, but I’m certain it can be done. Display could be similar to that of alliance chat vs guild chat in gw1.

Guilds would be better equipped to generate influence, and build a community (without the added stresses and drama of repping being an issue).

With the flexibility of people can make their own alliance of guilds, rather than the rigid system gw1 had.

Player.2475:

I dodged pretty much whenever I could.

This is why you die. Time dodges better. Nothing in there needs a double dodge.

Also:
http://gw2dungeons.net/?Builds
Get a decent build.

Finally, stand where jennah runs off to. Fairly safe up there, and use a ranged weapon. That dragon goes from phase to phase in like 3-4 hits with my scepter/focus guard..

I had a thought. Though it certainly has its downsides, it would remove the need for a guild to demand 100% rep. The only reason guilds are asking for this is the influence generation. beyond that, is indeed up to the quality of the guild.

What about making a person generate influence for each guild they are in, regardless of the guild they are repping?

I’m sure we would also like the cost of the buffs to be reevaluated given that influence is much harder to earn since many event chains were nerfed.

I’d agree kicking for repping private bank guilds is just plain stupid (not to mention hypocritical when myself, and most of my officers have them..).

However, if you’re never going to rep a guild, why not just leave it? You arent part of it anyway.. (this is why I want to kick a list of non reppers).

I feel like people who will only rep when they are asking for something, then go back to non repping once they have what they want are just leechers anyhow. Which is why I dislike none repping and the multiple guild idea in general. (single guild would force people to leave if they don’t want to be in the guild).

Also farming/leveling earns a lot of influence (depending on exactly what) which guilds need to pay for those guild events you want to do. By not repping during that times, you’re basically saying " Guild leader, go pay for me to do things." which is pretty selfish.

Sadly the guild system was designed to meet the demands of selfish people.

Edit: This thread may also be of interest:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Guilds-5/first#post4371493

pdavis.8031:

Forgotten Legend.9281:

in my opinion, generally speaking… any guild that wants 100% rep is not worth joining.

Pretty much. I responded to a guild ad that required 100% rep and asked why. Was told it was to “promote a friendly and close community”. I said if I was already in a guild with friends, then I wouldnt be able to do stuff with them. Their “solution”? Invite them to the guild. And do stuff with the guild. Doesnt seem like a very friendly and close community if I have to either leave my friends, or bring them into a large guild in order to have fun.

I may be able to shed some light onto this.

The influence cost of buffs, compared to the rate of earning it, encourages mega guilds over smaller closer knit guilds (I don’t really like the 500 cap myself, I don’t actually know half my guildies, which frankly sucks.)

My guild does allow for exceptions for quite a lot of things too though. Also we don’t even kick non reppers, we just leave them at a special low rank, and boot them if we need space. But i’ve been in many guilds that seemed like there was someone waiting to insta-kick me if i wanted to use my private guild bank in a town. It really was annoying.