Guild Wars 2

if you could do 49 without trouble, you’ll be just fine at 50.

Kaos beat me to it.
Yeah it looks like breaking the CC bar will auto apply a decent stun. This isn’t bad. Deep freeze will probably shred the defiance bar, so its still potentially worthwhile opening with it.

GoldenTruth.2853:

Sound like a pretty good change for the defiance mechanic. However, I’d like some clarity in what happens to mobs when you deplete their defiance bar. In the above article they stated that the wyverns would take increased damage and would be stunned, but how will retroactive mobs be effected? There are most likely 3 ways in which the mobs could be effected.

1. Like the Wyvern all mobs will be auto-stunned for X amount of seconds with increased damage.

2. All CC effects work for a short time.

3. Only the 1st CC after the bar goes down works.

This is pretty much my thoughts as well.
The “default behavior” I’m expecting option 3, but would prefer option 1 or 2.

edit: sounds like option one from what Anthony posted.
I like option one.

This was the first map I pvp’d on ( that I remember). I wouldn’t mind it back, if for no other reason than: than they would have to balance underwater skills :P

LOL. There is a reason some of us are a little kick happy in dungeons, especially when 3-4 guildies in a party

Sounds like you’re on EU servers
I’d happily extend you an invite for some of our runs with some TS explanations along the way if you were on NA ( sounds like you’re the sort of player who wouldn’t mind using teamspeak either tbh).

Khisanth.2948:

Thaddeus.4891:

With that trait we can expect to reach 100% crit chance very easily in PvE. Zerker gear + that trait + spotter + banner of Disc will equal to 100% crit chance.

There seems to a hidden cap on crit chance. I’ve had non-critical hits show up even with the character panel showing 103% critical chance. Hmm … although that was before the new combat log. Let me go check again.

Don’t forget crit chance has other factors, such as level differential.

Also weakness?

Yet again the arguments all sound like they would pretty much evaporate if two things happen:
1) you can view and talk in each of your 5 guilds chat ( similar to alliance chat in gw1), with the difference being you pick guild by tag, like whisper.

2) you generate influence for all 5, because.. you are a member of all 5.

with concept of a main guild for tag/emblem.

edit:
Kinda hoping this comes with a feature patch pre HoT ( sounds like we’re getting balance changes soon with the stabby change). If we do I’m hoping its going to be in the next couple of months.

Lytalm.5673:

“Hard” PvE content = Arah, HotW, CoE (arguable), TA Aether path and Fractal 40/50

umm.. I’m wanting to disagree with hotw being labeled “hard content” but then I remember pugs are still dying while ranging the troll in p1

sMihaly.1492:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

people do dungeons to grind for gold.
Very few people still play them “just for fun”.

This.
I love TA Aetherpath, and i usually run if for fun, but…

• There are 2 types of players, one experienced and wants to run the “meta” and tells me to kitten off cuz im not ele war guard,
• and there are the ppl who dont know what to do at all, so it takes at least 2 hours to run through with all explanations.

Tho, it could be a really nice and exciting dungeon where all classes have their own advantage.
Necro fears and pulls are good for positioning the Holograms and escorting oozes,
Thief smoke fields make the best defence at adds + pull on holograms.
Mesmer reflects make oozes and bosses rlly easy, even a second mesmer is good to have.
Warrior with retaliation+ endure pain on the center of Sparki’ spinning attack, well… numbers explode on your screen
etc,etc.

All i have to say to those narrow sighted “meta-or-kitten-off” guys, is that you have to learn to enjoy the game and play for fun or don’t play at all. It is a game afterall.

What if i don’t find it fun to spend 2 hours in ta:aether because people can’t play their class properly?
What if i don’t find it fun doing 2 times as much work because they can’t do anything useful?
What if I don’t find it fun being the last man standing time and time again with no chance of being able to solo the boss because there is too many things that need to happen? ( such as kiting the ooze to the oil patches with sparki/slick).

P.S: please refrain from being so abusive to people who want to run meta. That kind of comment only serves to make those who run meta tell you to kitten off all the more.

an example of last nights arah run:
We advertised " TS3 – zerk ele".
We had about 8 people join before we got an ele.
Which means constantly relisting the LFG.
We also got abuse- such as " I’m reporting you for kicking me at the end" ( the guy hadn’t even set foot in the instance). Amongst others.
The problem is the LFG suppression then kicks in if we go through 2-3 people in the span of a couple of minutes. Not to mention distracts us while 3-4 manning a dungeon.
We ended up 4 manning p2 and sold the 5th slot at brie because the LFG broke on us and we couldn’t relist without disbanding the party and reforming for a significant time.
This is why we’re asking for class filters – we can’t be the only ones suffering from this, and both sides suffer.

Similar situation for things like level of course.
Purpose Filter:
“Speed Clear” Parties who want to coordinate and complete quicky.*
“Completion” Parties who want to take it slow and steady.**
“Learning” Parties wanting to learn or teach how to complete a run.

*Not sure on exact wording but something meaning coordinated, with flexibility to fit team composition. Willing to use combos to maximum effect. For me Speed Clear embodies the concept of what a party might be aiming for ( if not achieving it perfectly).
At the very least, those who want to get faster runs will be more likely to want to listen to build and gear advice. Getting the right mentality makes this type of run much smoother and less stressful.

• or not share what build they are running.

Intention filtering may not stop the trolls, but it’ll help the innocent players who may need a bit more guidance on the type of party to join. Worst case – trolls do what they do now. Best case – helps out everyone else.

Gear filtering could be a problem, but yes, if implemented, should be required by the creator also.

Agony resistance suitable for the level?

Time meta is 5 mesmers using time warp right?

phys.7689:

Zenith.7301:

phys.7689:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

If you join the speed clear group expecting to be asked to alter your build. Its quite simple.

Would be quite easy to add a tooltip description to each category.

There are ( as far as i can see) 4 categories of dungeon running
1) record running
2) speed clearing
3) completion
4) learning the ropes.

Record running NEVER uses pugs. IF you think this category pugs, then you belong in the 4th category.
Category 4 is pretty obvious – go here if you are unsure/new/returning. Alternatively if you want to teach the aforementioned players.

Category 2 and 3 are the ones who need segregating.
Those who want to speed clear.
and those who just want to complete.

Problem lies in: those who want to complete, want to sponge off those who are speed clearing. Those who just want to complete – without coordinating party composition should join category 3.

The problem you are stating is thus: People want to enjoy having a fast run without coordinating or balancing party composition or getting into teamspeak.
This right here is why people keep getting booted from parties.
With the lfg options it will be straightforward:
Join the completion groups, or make your own.

You’re pretty much calling people too stupid to figure this out, which is quite insulting.
There is still going to be trolls.These trolls can join “exp zerk ele only” groups with a level necro in dire gear, nothing we can do about that.

However reasonable players will grasp this quickly and make use of it.
IF we can improve the experience for reasonable players, and help them find like minded players, then the filter would be a success. Any reasonable player should see the speed clear and its tooltip, and expect they may have to change build.
If you get kicked for refusing to do so, it is much more clear you only have yourself to blame. You should have joined or formed a “Completion” group not a “Speed Clear” group.
If someone kicks you from an anything goes group over build or playstyle – yeah, QQ. They were being dirtbags ( which is also borderline LFG abuse and reportable..).
a tooltip for each category with a short description would help considerably.

So again:
Record Run – for breaking completion time records
Speed Clear – for highly coordinated meta runs.
Completion – anything goes.
Learning – for learning or teaching how to do the dungeon.

Added meta to speed clear, as that may help with confusion.
This is no way should replace the text for each LFG.

you could use speed clear if you want in the description, but i am telling you, it will increase your chances of getting legitimate misses. Its not about intelligent or not intelligent, its about how people interpret words and preconceived notions.

Speed clear can mean something to people who are unfamiliar with your terminology.

if you have checkouts counters marked

Speed checkout
normal checkout
special checkout

people will go to the speed checkout when they want to check out fast, not realizing that this checkout may require you to have a cart that automatically tabulates everything in your cart, and accept credit card payments only.

thus making the line very slow, and annoying all people who know what they are supposed to do.

If it was named
CartCreditSpeed checkout people would only go in there if they already knew what the hell CartCreditSpeed is.

they wouldnt assume they knew what it meant.

As to the main problem being people leeching, no thats not really the main problem. Thats actually a very small problem, sure we can try to take care of it, but its actually a very small issue when it comes to the overall health and accessibility of dungeons. I can assure you, the vast majority of people not attempting dungeons, is not because newbs keep joining their speedruns and trying to leech.

Yeah, it’s probably because doing open world farm trains or playing the auction house will net you far more rewards than any speed run will ever get you.

This game doesn’t reward you for actually playing the game or doing challenging content.

The lv50 fractal rewards including rings you don’t need (considering if you have 70+ AR are you already have all accessories+10 agony at least infused on each slot) and the awful gold reward for time spent is testament to a reward scheme that’s perverted.

this is true, but even when these things didnt net you more, or at least people didnt know about it as much, people did these other things because these other things are highly accessible.

the basic dungeon running needs to be more accessible

Fractal 50 is more accessible than regular dungeons?

I think this just about discredits every argument you have.

phys.7689:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

If you join the speed clear group expecting to be asked to alter your build. Its quite simple.

Would be quite easy to add a tooltip description to each category.

There are ( as far as i can see) 4 categories of dungeon running
1) record running
2) speed clearing
3) completion
4) learning the ropes.

Record running NEVER uses pugs. IF you think this category pugs, then you belong in the 4th category.
Category 4 is pretty obvious – go here if you are unsure/new/returning. Alternatively if you want to teach the aforementioned players.

Category 2 and 3 are the ones who need segregating.
Those who want to speed clear.
and those who just want to complete.

Problem lies in: those who want to complete, want to sponge off those who are speed clearing. Those who just want to complete – without coordinating party composition should join category 3.

The problem you are stating is thus: People want to enjoy having a fast run without coordinating or balancing party composition or getting into teamspeak.
This right here is why people keep getting booted from parties.
With the lfg options it will be straightforward:
Join the completion groups, or make your own.

You’re pretty much calling people too stupid to figure this out, which is quite insulting.
There is still going to be trolls.These trolls can join “exp zerk ele only” groups with a level necro in dire gear, nothing we can do about that.

However reasonable players will grasp this quickly and make use of it.
IF we can improve the experience for reasonable players, and help them find like minded players, then the filter would be a success. Any reasonable player should see the speed clear and its tooltip, and expect they may have to change build.
If you get kicked for refusing to do so, it is much more clear you only have yourself to blame. You should have joined or formed a “Completion” group not a “Speed Clear” group.
If someone kicks you from an anything goes group over build or playstyle – yeah, QQ. They were being dirtbags ( which is also borderline LFG abuse and reportable..).
a tooltip for each category with a short description would help considerably.

So again:
Record Run – for breaking completion time records
Speed Clear – for highly coordinated meta runs.
Completion – anything goes.
Learning – for learning or teaching how to do the dungeon.

Added meta to speed clear, as that may help with confusion.
This is no way should replace the text for each LFG.

you could use speed clear if you want in the description, but i am telling you, it will increase your chances of getting legitimate misses. Its not about intelligent or not intelligent, its about how people interpret words and preconceived notions.

Speed clear can mean something to people who are unfamiliar with your terminology.

if you have checkouts counters marked

Speed checkout
normal checkout
special checkout

people will go to the speed checkout when they want to check out fast, not realizing that this checkout may require you to have a cart that automatically tabulates everything in your cart, and accept credit card payments only.

thus making the line very slow, and annoying all people who know what they are supposed to do.

If it was named
CartCreditSpeed checkout people would only go in there if they already knew what the hell CartCreditSpeed is.

they wouldnt assume they knew what it meant.

As to the main problem being people leeching, no thats not really the main problem. Thats actually a very small problem, sure we can try to take care of it, but its actually a very small issue when it comes to the overall health and accessibility of dungeons. I can assure you, the vast majority of people not attempting dungeons, is not because newbs keep joining their speedruns and trying to leech.

Then people learn the first time they make a mistake, and go to the right checkout.
In future they go to the right checkout, and they tell their friends which checkout they should go to.

Much the same thing will happen with this filter. People might make a mistake. kitten happens. People learn from their mistakes, or they are too stupid to learn from their mistakes and keep making them until they get suppressed from the lfg.

SpeedClear is not an unclear phrase. It is very commonly used. Naming it something vague, or using some made up term will simply make it harder for people to understand what it is. That is not a good thing.

The fact remains, you are calling people too stupid to figure out which type of group they should join. I find that rude. I’m sure many others will too.

I can see why “anything goes” pugs would want to be able to for example rangers, tweak their build to do something else.
I can only think of a couple of trait setups for rangers that would be particularly useful in a dungeon.
Spotter and frost spirit being pretty central – otherwise ranger dps isn’t worth taking over an ele or thief. A second ranger would be quite handicapped due to overlap of role.

Mesmer – not so much, at least they can drop the reflect spec and take a dps spec that’ll work well. Necros? ey.. I haven’t touched mine outside of spvp in months.

The thing is – that is much more class balance than dungeon related. Not to mention we have specializations on the way, and revenant, and we have 5 character slots ( minimum).

If you join the speed clear group expecting to be asked to alter your build. Its quite simple.

Would be quite easy to add a tooltip description to each category.

There are ( as far as i can see) 4 categories of dungeon running
1) record running
2) speed clearing
3) completion
4) learning the ropes.

Record running NEVER uses pugs. IF you think this category pugs, then you belong in the 4th category.
Category 4 is pretty obvious – go here if you are unsure/new/returning. Alternatively if you want to teach the aforementioned players.

Category 2 and 3 are the ones who need segregating.
Those who want to speed clear.
and those who just want to complete.

Problem lies in: those who want to complete, want to sponge off those who are speed clearing. Those who just want to complete – without coordinating party composition should join category 3.

The problem you are stating is thus: People want to enjoy having a fast run without coordinating or balancing party composition or getting into teamspeak.
This right here is why people keep getting booted from parties.
With the lfg options it will be straightforward:
Join the completion groups, or make your own.

You’re pretty much calling people too stupid to figure this out, which is quite insulting.
There is still going to be trolls.These trolls can join “exp zerk ele only” groups with a level necro in dire gear, nothing we can do about that.

However reasonable players will grasp this quickly and make use of it.
IF we can improve the experience for reasonable players, and help them find like minded players, then the filter would be a success. Any reasonable player should see the speed clear and its tooltip, and expect they may have to change build.
If you get kicked for refusing to do so, it is much more clear you only have yourself to blame. You should have joined or formed a “Completion” group not a “Speed Clear” group.
If someone kicks you from an anything goes group over build or playstyle – yeah, QQ. They were being dirtbags ( which is also borderline LFG abuse and reportable..).
a tooltip for each category with a short description would help considerably.

So again:
Record Run – for breaking completion time records
Speed Clear – for highly coordinated meta runs.
Completion – anything goes.
Learning – for learning or teaching how to do the dungeon.

Added meta to speed clear, as that may help with confusion.
This is no way should replace the text for each LFG.

phys.7689:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

On the topic of filters:

Speed Clear – for highly coordinated efficient runs.
Completion – anything goes.
Learning – for learning or teaching how to do the dungeon.

How does this sound? I’d agree the first option it needs to be brutally obvious it’s a different style of play to the second. Third is obvious what to expect imo.
However record runs are different to a typical speed clear tour. The “meta” is different again. However that really doesn’t need an LFG category, that is purely the domain of guilds and teamspeak. pug and record run just doesn’t mix.

speed clear just sounds like they will clear it fast to a layman.
Come up with a new word if you dont like time attack, but it has to seem like its not just about being fast.

But it is about being fast. Thats the point..

On the topic of filters:

Speed Clear – for highly coordinated efficient runs.
Completion – anything goes.
Learning – for learning or teaching how to do the dungeon.

How does this sound? I’d agree the first option it needs to be brutally obvious it’s a different style of play to the second. Third is obvious what to expect imo.
However record runs are different to a typical speed clear tour. The “meta” is different again. However that really doesn’t need an LFG category, that is purely the domain of guilds and teamspeak. pug and record run just doesn’t mix.

What if fractals were to work a little more like DoA?

You can complete the fractals in a given order ( giving progressively higher rewards the more you complete in a row. Be it increased silver/gold or extra fractal relics or some other token that inevitably won’t get put in the wallet).
You can start at any fractal and the repetition is circular.
Once you’ve completed X fractals you can take on a boss fractal.

I want to suggest adding pristine fractal relic(s) to the end of each fractal, then the boss fractal costs 5 to enter, but yields more on completion ( depending upon which boss fractal you choose).

It would also allow anet to balance rewards around the length and difficulty of each fractal a little more easily.

Thats down to lack of knowledge and experience on both sides.
Pugs want smooth runs and many have had bad experiences and so filter out those.
for example I have never had a smooth run ( in the past 6 months) with 2 warriors in the party, so i actively object to that situation. Can’t blame pugs for doing the same really.
People don’t want stressful runs.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Dungeon-speed-runs-the-dark-side/page/6#post4821354

I suspect this suggestion might be something you’d go and + 1 though.

phys.7689:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

Also, The “artificial barriers” to dungeon running is created by those unwilling to adapt to the content. Those who become abusive and/or yell “toxic elitists!” the moment they are asked to use a better set of traits or weapon so as to be useful to the party.

There are plenty of dungeon guilds willing to train people. Many don’t want to learn, just free gold while watching tv on another screen ( for example).
Many who can train, refuse to, due to the abuse they have received in the past.

The artificial barriers are created soley in the minds of those who are excluding themselves from group content.

edit:
I do, and always will kick pugs who cannot read an lfg listing.
Why? – Because if they can’t read lfg, what chance have I got of them reading party chat and being a useful member of my party?

This “artificial barrier” is created by people who are unable or unwilling to read. Not by me, or my party members.

no, you are wrong.

the barrier is, that some people expect people to be playing a time attack meta, and others expect people to be playing a beat the dungeon meta. And of these two groups, some people get highly upset when the other doesnt see it his way.

lol.
no, I am quite correct in saying that many players have zero interest in working as a team. Zero interest in getting better at the game (something which sounds completely preposterous to me but w/e).
Anybody should now by now, the internet has kittens on it. You simply have to find those who aren’t.

“artificial barriers” are solely in the minds of those excluding themselves.

phys.7689:

Rising Dusk.2408:

EcoRI.9273:

The thing about filtering systems is that sometimes the things you don’t want just get through but what it does do is decrease that amount. I mean kitten even Heisenberg with his one hundred and one purifying steps(filtering) for making meth can only go so far. No matter how good a filtering system is, it does not guarantee 100% good experience. Imo all it has to do is to be able to good enough most of the time. I think the filter system will definitely eliminate a lot of toxic players for the beginner levels, which I feel is the most important aspect. If beginners are having a good time, there is a good chance of getting fresh blood into the dungeon community. As for advanced, that is where most of the toxic players will be imo. In league most bronze v think they are gold and that the reason they stay in bronze v is because of their teammates lol(bad skilled players thinking they are good and blaming others). and in League its called Elo Hell because of how toxic those people are.

All fair points. I’ll add self-classifying filters to the proposal and see where it goes. What are we thinking in terms of skill-based filters:

• Beginner
• Intermediate
• Advanced

Do we think Intermediate makes sense? Just the bounding two or do we like the middle rank?

dont make the filter skill based, make intent based.

• time attack- users use optimized parties and specialized builds and aim for record times
• dungeon completion – lets get it done
• Learning learning or teaching the ropes

this way you group people with similar intents, rather than how they classify themselves.

+1
This classification makes far more sense, and is far more meaningful.

Edit:
I’d tweak the description of time attack though. People may not be aiming for “record runs” but do want a fast run. Record runs often take practice attempts and lucky rng from bosses

Maybe something like:
“for players who use optimized builds and team compositions, and are aim to complete as quickly as they can”

Also, The “artificial barriers” to dungeon running is created by those unwilling to adapt to the content. Those who become abusive and/or yell “toxic elitists!” the moment they are asked to use a better set of traits or weapon so as to be useful to the party.

There are plenty of dungeon guilds willing to train people. Many don’t want to learn, just free gold while watching tv on another screen ( for example).
Many who can train, refuse to, due to the abuse they have received in the past.

The artificial barriers are created soley in the minds of those who are excluding themselves from group content.

edit:
I do, and always will kick pugs who cannot read an lfg listing.
Why? – Because if they can’t read lfg, what chance have I got of them reading party chat and being a useful member of my party?

This “artificial barrier” is created by people who are unable or unwilling to read. Not by me, or my party members.

Shiren.9532:

Zenith.7301:

TPMN.1483:

It’s harder than you think to find like-minded zerkers…
Many indivudals will join a LFG looking for a free ride and not read the lfg.

Eg TS3 Read all before joining :GLF <> Exp Meta path <>- Type “Pi to 4 DP” or “Dr Fang” or kick.

We ask for an ele, mes or war – they come on inside with a lvl 65 Necro/Guadd and zone into the dungeon = insta kick. They repeat this two or three times – and bug the LFG so we cannot edit or relist it.

Just means we end up completing the content 3 man.

I believe a class filter is necessary – to help ensure the LFG stops breaking and increasing the chances of actually getting what you would like to fill the group and complete your team composition that your group is trying to run with.

Or maybe, you know, campaign for the undesirable classes to be made better instead. You know, make rangers, necromancers, and mesmers useful to stack just like warriors or thieves instead of just bringing one for some niche utility.

Is the dungeon difficult in this game really so great there needs to be a big distinction between rangers, necromancers, mesmers and the “preferred” professions? When I think of all the ways to improve my daily dungeon time, excluding entire professions which have viably fast DPS builds is not one of them.

I’m all for encouraging the designers to bring professions in line, but tbh I don’t think there is a huge difference between some of the meta professions and some of the non-meta profession. The biggest difference seems to be player attitude, not tangible differences in performance.

We’ve been over one year since the last dungeon update (I believe it was Fractured – so approaching 18 months now) and the word dungeon wasn’t once mentioned in relation to HoT nor was there a single dungeon in Living World season two (compared to Aetherblade Retreat, Molten Facility and Aether Path). Maybe it’s time the dungeon community stop looking at ways of excluding other players (“no rangers, no necros etc”) and instead tried to foster a more populous dungeon community, we all might see ArenaNet take more of an interest in dungeons.

If you remember back at launch, AC was considered hard (AC story was considered hard). Many of us have come a long way since then, but I suspect most did not. Stop creating artificial barriers to exclude players from dungeons you enjoy playing – it’s only going to hurt you in the long run if ArenaNet doesn’t see enough player interest and participation in dungeons and instead of putting a team on a new dungeon, they put that team on another open world zerg train because the dungeon players were too elite to welcome the ranger, necros or Knight’s wearers.

I believe players have to make an investment in getting better at dungeons (and that means not running soldiers ASAP) but if we want ArenaNet to make content for us, we need to make sure that “us” is as many people as it can be without compromising the dungeon experience.

Its about the composition.
About who brings what traits.

Like rending strikes + weak spot + sundering strikes + mace warrior for vuln.

PS warrior vs staff + sf & LH ele for might.

mesmer vs guardian: reflects vs stability vs condi remove vs aegis vs time warp.
That one being quite subjective and down to team strength and potential shortest time vs smoothness of run.

If you want a second ele to run SF + LH for swirling winds + blasts for might, a ranger joining doesn’t help. At best it’d force the ele to retrait to remove weak spot (due to ranger vuln) forces the warrior to retrait to PS. Loses swirling winds and blinds on thunderclap as well as a lot of pre-fight might stacking capabilities. Not to mention things like soothing mist and heal on water attune, which can be some very nice pressure easing. You lose blinds from thunderclap – a thief may have to adjust build ( possibly changing to s/p for additional blinds to compensate.

What if you have an SF + LH ele and wanted a staff ele?
Then the SF ele has to retait also.
Sure you may bring frost spirit/spotter.

Question is, why should 2 ( or more) other people have to change builds, to accommodate you? Why cant you go ele and fit into the otherwise ready to go party?

This is where understanding team composition comes into play. Many people do not understand it, or why it is important I have found.

I’d say go for a middle rank. Otherwise people who have ran the dungeon twice will be self proclaimed experts ( though that’ll happen to some extent even if there is 10 options).

I think you’ll get a lot of people who should be in “beginner” or “intermediate” self classifying themselves as “advanced” to get into any run mind you.

I’d much prefer a class filter so the lfg doesn’t suppress ( and cause us to waste time relisting over and over during the run) after a bunch of fools who can’t read join.

Asked for an ele last night, went through: 1 ranger twice, 2 guardian twice, 2 warriors ( one of them twice). 3 of them hurled abuse at us, and one claimed to be reporting us for kicking him at the end of the run ( the guy didn’t even enter the instance in the few moments he was in the party).

So.. Class filter > (meaningless) self proclaimed skill level filter.

Edit:
also self proclaimed skill filters are entirely subjective.

I’d class myself as advanced for most dungeons, and intermediate for arah. However a speedclear guild like DnT or LOD might classify me as intermediate for most, and beginner for arah.

Entirely subjective. Given how the learning curve is so gentle people are going to think they are advanced, when they are barely intermediate. Due to this, I don’t think it will really solve anything at all.

I’d recommend having a full zerker set ( for when you get better at the content), and taking something like a couple of celestial accessories. That’ll give you enough to survive some of the 1 hit ko’s – assuming you started at full health. IDeally asc cele accessories so you can swap em about as you learn new classes.

people do dungeons to grind for gold.
Very few people still play them “just for fun”.
Dungeons may be accessible to sub-80’s, but that doesn’t mean those who are level 80 want to carry you or your guildies. They want to get it done quickly and smoothly.

Taking a level 35, or taking no one would make absolutely no meaningful impact on a team with a brain between them. Why would they carry a pug that they will likely never see again?

Also 1 geared level 80 as as useful kitten level 35’s in ac explorable.
If they want to run it as a low level – thats fine. They just have to expect to run it with other low levels who don’t really care about the gold grind for legendary/asc gear yet.
It is not picky, stop feeling so entitled to hamper other peoples experience.

Try thinking about it from the party’s perspective, instead of your own.

Zenith.7301:

TPMN.1483:

It’s harder than you think to find like-minded zerkers…
Many indivudals will join a LFG looking for a free ride and not read the lfg.

Eg TS3 Read all before joining :GLF <> Exp Meta path <>- Type “Pi to 4 DP” or “Dr Fang” or kick.

We ask for an ele, mes or war – they come on inside with a lvl 65 Necro/Guadd and zone into the dungeon = insta kick. They repeat this two or three times – and bug the LFG so we cannot edit or relist it.

Just means we end up completing the content 3 man.

I believe a class filter is necessary – to help ensure the LFG stops breaking and increasing the chances of actually getting what you would like to fill the group and complete your team composition that your group is trying to run with.

Or maybe, you know, campaign for the undesirable classes to be made better instead. You know, make rangers, necromancers, and mesmers useful to stack just like warriors or thieves instead of just bringing one for some niche utility.

Making undesirable classes better is fine.
However that doesn’t mean they will be suitable for the team composition of a given party.

Not sure how many saw the points of interest video last week..
There was a dragon fight on a platform, which the presenters said was designed for 5 people to kill.

So.. we’re possibly getting single legendary bosses to kill?

Personally I find fractals are a quite frustrating at times, and really not all that worth running. Time gates like running the crystals at old tom just don’t constitute fun for me.

Finally getting around to learning arah properly, and it is far more entertaining than fractals. WTB more level 80 dungeons.

That isn’t elitism, that’s just plain rude and obnoxious.
Please stop using “elitism” as to go to buzz word for insults in dungeons.

VodCom.6924:

rotten.9753:

No no no, you obviously do not understand these people. They don’t want players to be semi-dps, semi-support and semi-control (non-dedicated roles), they want fully specced dedicated roles. Until that happens, gw2 has no diversity.

It’s simpler for most people to figure out who they are and what they do if they min max.

However I belong to the smaller crowd of players who do not like min-maxing, just to have some room to breathe in harder and non mastered content.

Also do keep in mind that the semi-support approach does work wonders in PUG groups where nobody gives a dman about stacking might or group composition to include stealth for skipping or reflects for projectiles.

In these types of groups, you’re better off bringing an berserker D/F ele with 0/6/0/4/4 attribute repartition instead of the classic 6/4/2/2/0 SD lightning hammer build (unless you can solo the path but this is not the topic of the discussion).

It does depend greatly on the team comp and strength of the team. However:
First ele in a party would be better off with 6/6/2. Staff or d/f is almost a personal preference. staff has higher damage and interesting utility. D/F can might stack ( assuming you don’t constantly get area retal/weakness..)
The main reason for this is you’d want the weak spot for the vuln stacks. Unless you have a good ranger/engi in party, there will almost always be room for first ele to add them, and even then there may still be need.

Personally I don’t see any point in a s/f ( s/d) + LH ele unless its the second ele in a group. Its yield is diminished if there isn’t fire fields to blast ( could come from a skilled guardian, but assuming skilled isn’t a good idea unless its guildies).

So assuming you do have fire fields to blast, the next question is fury. Plenty of ways to achieve perma fury via 2-3 party members. Assuming this is the case:
5/4/0/5/0 S/F + LH.

This gives you some crazy awesome utility. It Does assume things like fire fields, vuln, and fury can be covered by other party members ( so strong team needed). However, the utility and dps this packs is superior to a 6/4/2/2 S/D ele under the right conditions. S/D < S/F regardless.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

The only comment I have to make on the Zerk meta is that it is not a problem that the meta exists. The problem is that the meta is universal.

It wouldn’t be terribly hard to alter the meta in some dungeon paths. Say one dungeon path had a ton of Mordrem Husks. The meta for that path would almost certainly not be “5 Zerk” but would rather shift to a mix of Zerk, Sinister, and/or celestial. Say another involved escorting an NPC carrying a large object (so no skills) through a dangerous path. You might see Zealot’s or even Clerics being the meta (or at least in the meta makeup) there, depending on how it was set up. You have a bunch of crit-immune enemies in another path? Soldier’s gear would probably be the big one there.

There is no problem at all with Zerker gear being optimal in content. There is a problem when it’s optimal in all content. Thankfully, Anet has been taking steps with enemy and encounter design to make Zerker higher risk and not always the best choice in PVE.

Do you remember gw1, where some missions if the npc died – mission failure?
Zen daijun springs to mind. We’d bug togo into a corner so he couldn’t (move) die because he was stupid and annoying.
I never met anyone who enjoyed npc escorts. Why would anet add them to gw2 after so much negative feedback on them?

Husks would be fine. I want a mordrem filled dungeon!
Problem is the way condis overwrite. Also there would be little point in more than 1 condi player, since one can often get close to the max condi stack. Maybe 2 with revenant, 1 for 25 bleed, 1 for 25 torment. However zerker + might + condi traits = little need for condi gear ( and rightly so, forced stats = bad).

Moo.3408:

Test.8734:

Moo.3408:

Are current meta is “zerker only”. You must have a meta

I disagree.

The issue with berseker isn’t that it’s the most effective way to PvE, rather that it’s the most effective way to PvE everywhere.

If we had better designed encounters so one area is actually different from the other, we could have one place in which zerker is the most effective build, another in which a combination of different roles in the most effective build, another in which conditions + control is the most effective build, etc.

We don’t need to have a single meta. If the game were well designed, we would have such variety that different scenarios would have different metas.

I could go for this, but in no one place should all 5 players be most efficient with zerker.

And why is that?

IF I and 4 others can all dodge, aegis, blind, move out of the way, reflect, stability, condi clear properly, why should we be forced to have another armor set?

Why should I be forced to run a certain set of gear?

Moo.3408:

Ok, I’ll sum up what was said about trinity on my part:
1. No trinity is needed
2. While trinity is not needed, it doesn’t mean you shouldn’t have different roles in dungeons
2.1. The most efficient way should not be one group of all dps
3. I think there should be 10 rolls of the present, a pair of each of these: condi, support, tank, control, dps (if you REALLY need me to, I’ll give you a description)
Additional thought:
Make trash mobs have quicker and more powerful hits
Bosses have quicker, but weaker attacks with more cc
Give them more life
While you should need these in dungeons, you should not be confined to this in non 5 man raids.

1) oc its not.
2)different roles are needed, learn class coordination.
2.1) this isn’t the case already. please go learn the dungeon meta for each class.
3) everyone is capable of dealing damage. therefore your roles listed should be:
dps + condi ( which is technically the same thing, but w/e)
dps + control, dps + support, dps + tank ( which if implemented so tanks could still do fair dps, this would be OP and the pug meta would be 5 dps + tanks, GG)
dps + dps.

Let me give you some examples of why your statements are flawed:
Staff ele – is all about fire and dps and nothing else right? Wrong.
Healing rain – regen + condi removal (support). geyser – (healing). Frozen ground – chill (soft control), windbourne speed – swiftness – great utility. Static feild – stuns (control), Gust ( control), shockwave – (soft Control), magnetic aura – reflects (self preservation, or could be used to jump in front of an ally and save them), unsteady ground (control).
staff ele doesn’t perma camp fire unless everyone else does everything perfectly.
Would you like me to continue for guardians, or warriors, or thieves, or mesmers?
Because I can quite happily school you on what good players can and are often having to do to keep their team alive ( especially if someone makes a mistake).

GiraffeRampage.6420:

Seera.5916:

GiraffeRampage.6420:

Okay youre clearly misreading my statements, im saying having a healing meta not necessarily a holy trinity. Secondly no one is pushing anyone and you dont represent the entire player base as there are alot of people that would enjoy playing a healing class and The healing signet as worthless as you always take more incoming damage than it heals per second.

That’s what dodging and moving around is for.

I play an elementalist. I don’t have a healing signet like warriors do. I have a signet that grants me healing per cast, but that’s less than a warriors per second. And warrior signet is active while stunned, etc. Elementalists aren’t. Because we aren’t casting.

If I’m actually moving around and dodging, I rarely need a heal. And if I do, my heal covers me. And I don’t use my healing signet. Because I prefer my glyph.

And even if I’m not moving around and dodging like I should, my heal still covers me.

So no, I’m not seeing this need for a dedicated healer.

Yea thats easy for you to say when youre speaking from a ranged dps opinion, you get to safely dps a boss where as a melee dps is standing in the hit box to dps a boss and cant get out of large aoe fast enough.

Dodges have evade frames. You don’t even need to leave the area. Just dodge at the right time. l2p issue entirely.

To be honest I hate the concept of repping.
However it is required if a guild is going to fund guild missions/buffs etc.

the guild CDI covered things like making all ( up to 5) guild chats appearing with the guild tag as a possibility ( similar to alliance chat in gw1).

I’m personally hoping influence is then given to every guild you’re a member of so guilds aren’t fighting over repping ( frankly influence and guild chat are the main two reasons anyone could come up with for fighting for members rep state).

There was discussion about a “main guild” which would be the guild you display tag/emblem for also.

It does hinder player collaboration in my opinion though.

Hopefully we will see major improvements in this area either before* or with HoT.

*Points of interest (episode 17) twitch video stream hinted stability change might come before HoT, so its possible we are going to still get a feature patch around march time.

Moo.3408:

Then, you have people who say it needs to be harder. And I think, if it gets harder by increasing damage done by monsters and increasing casting speed and cc, you won’t be able to use all zerker team

lol.
Zerkers can already get one shotted by many foes (especially the light/medium classes).
You want tankier gear/trait selections to be 1shotted also?

AND you think this will stop people running full glass cannon teams?

Go and reflect on this a while..

Moo.3408:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0HNyu0Pw8Q

l2p before QQ.

Yeah, I watched that and said that doesn’t REALLY count. Sure blind might be a detail, but really, they all focus on dps mostly.

Then I recommend you go watch it again.

Guardian’s hallowed ground would like to say hi.

It pulses stab every second like smoke screen does blind.
It is pretty much the PvE staple for the (limited number of) fights that need it. At least in dungeons. Open world a stun breaker is usually enough – though the teragryphs can be a pain, especially in larger numbers.

I can only think of a handful of foes I would need stab to be anything more than a pre-emptive stun breaker for the entire team anyway.

Other than that – boo-hoo you need to think about changing utilities occasionally.

WvW – now that is gonna be interesting. Back to being a ping-pong ball for many.
SPvP – CC just got a HUGE buff.

Seems like a balance nightmare to me. I’m sure anet knows what they’re.. err never mind.

PS, expecting thread merge

The only filters I can see working are level and class.
Perhaps agony resistance. Perhaps mastery level in the future.
- Even then they should be able to SEE the lfg listing, but not join.

The only way a “skill level” filter could be applied, is if anet builds an internal skill system like pvp’s mmr for dungeons (which would probably be pretty broken, and won’t happen).

l2p before QQ.

couple of things:
1) not every optimal build is 6/6/x/x/x.
2) if you separate them, then you guarantee people will max power/prec and then take whatever traits without any trade off.

I’d happily run a phalanx war with +300 power + 300 prec + 300 in whatever else.
Would you want the minor stats on each trait line to be selectable separately too?
If so + 300 fero and +30% boon duration please!

Also GL with balance.

Harper.4173:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

a scaling bonus reward for taking less experienced people through could be kinda cool. There needs to be some incentive to training/teaching – since it is hard work sometimes.

Doesn’t stop someone who’s completed it x times from being completely useless though.

While in theory this might work in practice people will just buy a new account – bring them along and 3 man or 4 man the dungeon with friends for more/better rewards.

You can’t really quantify “less experienced” from a game mechanics point of view. It would lead to a lot of exploiting and a lot of money being made.

Even if you did take new players – it might still be easier to tell them to stay there and not touch anything while the other 4 experienced players run the dungeon rather than take them along to complete the dungeon with you.

Unfortunately, I think you are correct in what would happen.
I’d certainly drop my alt into a 5th slot and 4 man the easy stuff.

a scaling bonus reward for taking less experienced people through could be kinda cool. There needs to be some incentive to training/teaching – since it is hard work sometimes.

Doesn’t stop someone who’s completed it x times from being completely useless though.

Caeledh.5437:

It’s both worse than what I’ve seen in any other MMO and almost the polar opposite of what you see elsewhere in the game.

Go try ranked pvp.
Like dungeons its one of the few places your personal skill level as well as build choice is going to have any impact whatsoever.

I often end up turning the chat off because people are so stupid and/or abusive.

Thief with tag: stealths into enemy keep after failed attack.
Thief turns on tag.
10 people teleport to thief.
BOOM keep stolen.

Repeat with 10 thieves and watch a ppt hit 0 in a matter of a couple of minutes.

this would cause more people to leave wvw than it would entice in.

Morte.5916:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

People who want casual groups don’t want to join those who use the filters.

I think that actually “casual” people do want to join the groups with filters, so they can be carried. They just don’t want the “serious” groups to have a way of filtering them out.

And then wonder why they get kicked all the time.
Clearly they need saving from themselves

xDudisx.5914:

Dave.2536:

Lord Kuru.3685:

My guess: mobs will move out of AOEs and so you’ll need AOE taunts to keep them in.

Why bother taunting? If they’re designed to run out of AoEs just bring 3-4 staff eles and 1-2 hammer guardians.

Huehuehue while the enemies continually knock themselves down in Ring of Warding while not attacking the group since they have been pre-programmed to flee.

For bosses just maintain cripples and chills to keep them in it.

They might have stab? They might not start stacked? We don’t know. Need more info.

2-3 staff eles, 1-2 hammer guards, 1 mesmer with time warp + null field.
One guard could start with gs #5 to pull them in then ring.

It’s abundantly clear the LFG needs filters.
People who want casual groups don’t want to join those who use the filters.
Those who use the filters won’t find their LFG bugged/suppressed because people who don’t bother to read or fit req keep joining.

Give players the tools to avoid people with whom they could have confrontation and we all win.