Guild Wars 2

Rin.1046:

If they make it so each trait line remembers your previous trait selections, that would make it a lot easier to swap trait lines about, while we wait for a proper templates system. I really like the new design, it should be a lot easier to use..

That is pretty much half the work of templates
But yeah, that would be useful alongside templates. I hope that does make it into the release for trait changes.

Aye, but its possible the changes will make it easier for them to create build saves/templates.
They also said it’s something they want to add. I doubt it’ll be included in HoT, but may very well come some time in the following months (/years).

dlonie.6547:

idk, It think it’s fair to criticize the learning curve between open-world and instanced PvE. At least, back when the content wasn’t as stale as a 8-day-old bagel, dungeons were far, far more difficult than anything most players had ever seen.

Having a low level dungeon that teaches mechanics would be a great thing. But that’s not really what AC does these day :/

aye. going from essentially solo play → group play is a heck of a change in direction and sometimes playstyle.

I suspect if AC wasn’t as rewarding as completing harder, higher level dungeons – most of us would leave it to those who are learning. Another couple of arah-level dungeons would be awesome.. ( something I suspect many are sick of repeating)

Sadly anet didn’t want AC to become desolate (oddly, I don’t think it would be a problem).
And this, as many are well aware, is where time:skill:reward ratio is screwy.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

its not about teaching “dungeon mechanics”

see this part of the quote:
" so new players have somewhere to actually learn what their skills do and how to play in a group setting. "

I don’t think dungeons teach this either. Fractals does perhaps, because it has a more gradual difficulty curve.

Bolded a key word for you, evidently the message isn’t getting through.

*Learning to play is up to each player.

*Speed of learning is also up to each player.

*Easier dungeons give a location environment in which to do this.

I’m sorry if you need to be led by the hand while learning to play.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

OR we could just leave the easier dungeons that are “face-roll-capable” so new players have somewhere to actually learn what their skills do and how to play in a group setting.
While asking for more level 80 dungeon content, with suitable interesting mechanics and rewards?

Oh wait.. we already did that, but we’re still waiting. :-)

The thing is, I don’t feel that the current dungeons succeed at that either. If you consider that AC is for all intends and purposes the first dungeon that players are faced with (also level-wise), it really does a poor job at teaching the core mechanics of playing a dungeon.

Design wise, the molten facility does a much better job at slowly introducing mechanics and having a learning curve. At least, the version of it before they cut it up for Fractals. Now they have kind of ruined that flow in Molten Facility, which is a shame.

its not about teaching “dungeon mechanics”

see this part of the quote:
" so new players have somewhere to actually learn what their skills do and how to play in a group setting. "

OR we could just leave the easier dungeons that are “face-roll-capable” so new players have somewhere to actually learn what their skills do and how to play in a group setting.
While asking for more level 80 dungeon content, with suitable interesting mechanics and rewards?

Oh wait.. we already did that, but we’re still waiting. :-)

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

If players were playing the game wrong in one of my games, I would feel completely at fault for it.

I guess I can’t help myself.

How does one play a game “wrong”?
are you saying a video game designer should shepard a player into doing one exact thing?

so.. no creativity allowed from players?

IF you are a game designer, your games sound crap.

/derail.

edit:
lets have another example.
I had an lfg posted up under fractal 40, asking for a staff ele.
Had a guardian join, immediately whine about how he doesn’t play to be told what to do.
Bragged that he would be done before us and leave. We finished 40 and 30 – the troll never left LA. He broke our lfg so we couldn’t list and had to wait for a guildie/friend to come online. We were half way through our second fractal when he joined.

So yeah.. Abuse isn’t limited to those who play meta.
And this is why we need filters and such on the LFG.

dlonie.6547:

fracture.9754:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

So I might get arah p4, ta aetherpath, and volcanic fractal in one run?

I think I’ll pass. Even if you were offering 100g, I’d hardly ever have enough time to be able to say " I can complete this today".

This can be easily finished in under an hour. How is that too much time?

With a PUG?

With anything less than a very well practiced SC-type group?

RNG defining length of time required is a bad plan. makes it hard to commit to content.
especially when you add several instances that may take pugs anything from 1-8 hours to complete.

So I might get arah p4, ta aetherpath, and volcanic fractal in one run?

I think I’ll pass. Even if you were offering 100g, I’d hardly ever have enough time to be able to say " I can complete this today".

4 hours for p1/2 of arah? I feel for you.

sMihaly.1492:

mcgriddles.2416:

currently sitting on 8k relics and 100+ pristine (i know, not a huge amount but they’re still eating away at my wallet/bank) with nothing to do with them. i’m hoping HoT offers some more uses for them..

TIL pristine relic merchant detects my pristine relics even if they are not in my bag, but in my bank… so why does that even occupy a slot :[

As for spending them… im curious what skill points will turn into, cuz you can buy 1SP/35fractal relic. Might be a good way spending them.

potentially we’ll have a lot less skill points coming in ( due to getting mastery points at level up) so we may find things like material promotion becomes quite lucrative, making this a nice little gold earner.

All speculative until we see how things work of course.

Thaddeus.4891:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

dual-wielding having a 15% attack speed boost ( and 5% damage boost) means foregoing a lot of dps while autoing though.

And? Those buff are already in the game, what changed? Yup ok, now it’s 15% attack speed compare to the current 10% attack speed. But what is different now, that would make Axe more competitive against GS? You know what is different? GS can now have max dps AND phalanx/EA support in one build.

Not sure why there is a need for the aggressive tone of this post..

From my experience, and what I’ve heard others state, is axe auto has a higher dps than the gs auto.

evis also has much greater damage than arcing. & since we will want to be spamming the t3 version of that as much as possible, seemed like it might be better spamming evis.

but jerus helped me see the pros and cons with a much nicer manner. It goes a long way toward better discussion

I hope guardian doesn’t camp hammer. I’ll be so bored.
I really dislike the idea of camping 1 weapon most of the time.

Hammer or mace/sword could lead to some interesting play for sure.

Jerus.4350:

With Fast hands the rotation with Axe and GS made sense, you could get 10 vuln on mace and 2X your 4 vuln on axe and swap back after 6-7s. Now you’ll have to hold on for a full 10, 5 less than a second mace4, and 2-3 less than a third axe2. I really can’t see it beating out the more consistent might production of just camping GS and the damage too I’d be curious on how it compared but I’d bet on GS camping winning out.

dual-wielding having a 15% attack speed boost ( and 5% damage boost) means foregoing a lot of dps while autoing though. I’m thinking strength sigil & maybe golden dumplings for might while on the axe/mace. also the multi-hitting axe auto for adrenaline gain for t3 evis spam.

comparing it to furious and HB spam – could probably get arcing to fire off at t3 more often for the 20% boost.

hmm, thinking about it I suspect there won’t be too much in it ( for adrenaline gain), but not having to swap to sw/wh while ooc for running would make it more convenient. & cheaper food options, which is what most people will be seeing.
Which opens up the possibility of final thrust to end a fight ( and maybe bloodlust sigil on a warhorn?).

GS + sw/wh has some interesting potential actually.. Not to mention making weapon swapping ooc unnecessary making it even easier to play.

edit:
@thad
Sacing berserks power for a trash mob that will be dead before you can really charge a burst skill wouldn’t really matter. So for trash mobs that shouldn’t even be surviving a single HB & whirlwind..
Aiming tramor would indeed take some skill and luck to interrupt multiple foes.

I suspect most will be too lazy to bother swapping and let HB do the might building, even though the KD is nice on some trash.

edit2:
Arcing looks like it wouldn’t be bad to fill time between 2-5 rotations when camping gs, especially given we will no longer lose a % mod for using it (disregarding the fact we’ll have to use t3 arcing every 10s for ideal damage mod anyway).

Thaddeus.4891:

Rising Dusk.2408:

Anyway, I just wanted to let everyone know that I’m sending my first report based on this information tonight. After I get that out, I’ll want to shift the discussion to the other four professions we haven’t reviewed much yet:

1. Thief
2. Warrior
3. Engineer
4. Ranger

Thief
I don’t have much to say about thief for PvE. Change are small and don’t screw up the meta much. Some change are a little bit annoying, but not game breaking.
- Critical Strikes Grandmaster is lacking. Hidden Killer is pretty useless since we already are near if not at 100% critical chance for a PvE Meta thief. The other options are about pistol (forget about it) and a healing trait. Nothing really appealing to the dungeon meta.
- We have SA as a good third line for better stealth (ok), we have Acro as a good third line for survival (ok), but Trickery is pretty bad as third line for dps, as it work right now. Flaking strike is a huge gamble, not sure is worth the risk since you don’t control when it gonna trigger. And any of the grandmaster trait are worth using for Dungeon meta. Essentially, we gonna take Trickery as a third line only for the grandmaster minor, which is kind of sad.

Warrior
- It’s generalize to pretty much most the lines. I can’t find a trait line where you can choice three major trait that help toward the Dungeon meta. In Strenght it’s the adept that is lacking, while master is only about GS (even if that same line give a axe grandmaster trait). In Arms the adept trait have the same problem. In discipline you have none, Destructing of the Empowered and Burst Mastery don’t work very well in Dungeons. That left us with only tactics that feel complete as you have three major that work with the Dungeon meta.
- Warrior was never a champion of diversity when it come to dungeon meta. It was always GS + Axe/Mace, but you chould choose between a full dps or phalanx build. But now? It’s gonna be one build to rule them all. And worst is the fact that GS camping will be almost our only option. Warrior already didn’t have the most entertaining rotation, now it’s will be so boring to play warrior in dungeon.

Engineer
- We can’t really give feedback since we got almost no information.

I’d still say gs + axe/mace. even with PS ( should be able to maintain might with a str sigil on the axe/mace set fairly well).

I see there being room for an axe/axe + axe/mace dps option also ( certainly true if when you have 2 wars in a pug group).

Distracting strikes + tremor could be very nice for short fights with trash mobs.

New berserkers power encouraging rather than hindering burst skill use is nice too.

Other than that I’d have to agree with the comments about lack of useful traits for pve in a few slots.

edit: engi has too many TBC to really have too much opinion on it.

once its unlocked for collection you can sell it, it won’t disappear from the collection.

a quality > quantity approach wouldn’t hurt.. All the salvaging blues/greens can be RSI inducing.

Thaddeus.4891:

laokoko.7403:

I won’t speak for dungeons, because that is so easy, probably anyone should be meleeing and try to do max dps.

But purely speaking for high level fractal. Most pug are doing so poorly on boss fight, 5 bearbow probably out dps them.

So when it’s easy it’s ok to try to max dps, but when there is a little difficulty we should just lay back, relax and range? What about Warrior, Mesmer and Thief that just have kittenty range option? Should they range too or should they stay alone in melee getting all the hits while you range from 1500 range away?

That’s why I don’t pug fractal, people are lazy. They prefer taking 20-45 more minute in range, than trying a little challenge in melee against some fractal bosses.

Part of the problem here is many don’t learn the tells while completing lower levels.

Even after hitting 50 I found myself needing some extra help identifying what certain attacks look like ( they can be very hard to spot til you know what to look for, then it seems easy).

having reward level 50 doesn’t make you ready for 50 necessarily..

insanemaniac.2456:

because filthy casuals dont wanna learn the tells of about 200 unique bosses and would rather survive by sacrificing damage than memorizing when to dodge

and there are oh so many filthy casuals

(edit: seems like some may have taken this post too seriously.. Or maybe I’m detecting sarcasm when it isn’t there..)

But did you forgot, the meta is all about stacking and spamming 1 in corners?

I just read the description for axe mastery.

Gain ferocity for each axe you are wielding.

So dual axe would be +300 ferocity, or 20% critical damage.
Considering the 50% damage bonus to axe #5 in pvp, it will be better to take axe training in pvp. Simply due to buildup time of adrenaline and the damage on eviscerate.

Test.8734:

BrooksP.4318:

Cosmetic only grinds can only hold for so long, this isn’t surprising nor all that bad.

So instead of adding a new tier of gear, they are making the current top tier – which is still not that common – more powerful?

All the while branding the “we have no gear treadmill” slogan?

I suspect gear base stats will increase.
Since each tier is just a % increase of the base stats, every tier of gear will gain more stats ( granted the gap between tiers will now become bigger, thus more noticeable).

So.. Chars I used skill point scrolls to unlock skills previously.. I will now be required to grind map complete ( or at least the challenges) to be able to use?

I seriously hope not as that would honestly suck.

Painbow.6059:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

Painbow.6059:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

bearbear.1903:

Skady made this post a month ago (followed by a train of hate) which looks to be exactly what you’re looking for and she uses Monk runes.

This looks promising.

Train of hate? lol I guess some don’t like it pointed out that non zerk is not only viable, but often works out better due to team strength
Which is why I’m doing some deep digging on the topic myself.

I can’t think of a single instance off the top of my head where going cleric would be better than berserker for carrying people even if they are the dumbest of the dumb.

Insulting people who are learning to play is a sure-fire way to cause a flame war, and its not needed.

I edited that post after watching the first video and the beginning of the second.
I was hoping to avoid making a second reply post but evidently that isn’t possible.

It is beyond overkill for anything I’ve seen. That being said, there are some out there who would need that much to keep them alive. These would consist of teams with little or no zerker – and even no meta traits however. – different purpose entirely.

tl;dr
Since I’m trying to create a “training wheel” environment for guildies ( and friends) who are traversing the learning curve ( and attempting to play glass cannon builds). I’m looking to give them a safety net ( which I can slowly reduce and remove as they become stronger players).

The arguments for taking monk runes seems pretty overwhelming compared to the other options. Largely due to the outgoing healing boost to everyone else.

Then train them under conditions where they will actually need to learn to dodge or use their heal skill. Or just get them to use a few soldier pieces instead of making yourself suboptimal. If what your guildies need is some support then the real way to do it is to let them experience what it’s like trying to survive in reality and they will learn from that

And when they get bored of ( or run out of time due to) dying over and over and over?

Your way doesn’t work for the particularly nasty fights, with the majority of people I’ve met. ( and trust me, i’ve tried. Clerics is my last resort option to get people through something, rather than kicking someone who is honestly trying to learn).

Painbow.6059:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

bearbear.1903:

Skady made this post a month ago (followed by a train of hate) which looks to be exactly what you’re looking for and she uses Monk runes.

This looks promising.

Train of hate? lol I guess some don’t like it pointed out that non zerk is not only viable, but often works out better due to team strength
Which is why I’m doing some deep digging on the topic myself.

I can’t think of a single instance off the top of my head where going cleric would be better than berserker for carrying people even if they are the dumbest of the dumb.

Insulting people who are learning to play is a sure-fire way to cause a flame war, and its not needed.

I edited that post after watching the first video and the beginning of the second.
I was hoping to avoid making a second reply post but evidently that isn’t possible.

It is beyond overkill for anything I’ve seen. That being said, there are some out there who would need that much to keep them alive. These would consist of teams with little or no zerker – and even no meta traits however. – different purpose entirely.

tl;dr
Since I’m trying to create a “training wheel” environment for guildies ( and friends) who are traversing the learning curve ( and attempting to play glass cannon builds). I’m looking to give them a safety net ( which I can slowly reduce and remove as they become stronger players).

The arguments for taking monk runes seems pretty overwhelming compared to the other options. Largely due to the outgoing healing boost to everyone else.

bearbear.1903:

Skady made this post a month ago (followed by a train of hate) which looks to be exactly what you’re looking for and she uses Monk runes.

This looks promising.

Train of hate? lol I guess some don’t like it pointed out that non zerk is not only viable, but often works out better due to team strength
Which is why I’m doing some deep digging on the topic myself.

There may be a bit of overkill on the heal and tanking capabilities of that..
(though it does prove a point about just how strong that play style can be).
I’m looking to just apply some training wheels to my guildies while they learn how to actively defend themselves, or switch into support on say a staff ele.

I may try those rice balls and see what kind of effect that 10% healing output has though.

Leo G.4501:

VodCom.6924:

I’d like to bring to this thread an uncommon point of view :

Your so-called discussion about “should dungeons be harder or have more viable builds ?” is a false one.

The real discussion is (as pointed out earlier by NikeEU) :
“Should dungeons be completable with a party made up of any class combination ?”

You’re jumping to the conclusion that those advocating build or content variety are suggesting said build or said content wouldn’t also be completable a multitude of ways or with a multitude of builds. No one’s suggesting things should be made to require a specific answer to complete, on the contrary.

If a specific team comp should not be required, conversely, shouldn’t that content not exclude team comps?

currently anything can be completed by anyone, with any build/comp.

However there is some who wish to exclude certain builds, such as the current meta built parties.

Isn’t this a contradiction in goals?

Windsagio.1340:

Jerus.4350:

NoTrigger.8396:

good “randomness” in pve is the wildstar elemental pairs in DS for example.
you have to fight 3 elemental pairs to get to avatus, 1 pair -> 2 bosses. and each week after ID reset the combination of each pair changes.

like this:
pyrobane is in each fight, the second boss is a different one. the whole fight is completely different.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLa_D-zqKIs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LT0tsCgIJbU

Personally I see that as annoying RNG, in that I hate that fractals don’t let me choose stuff because some fights I love, some I hate. Having my enjoyment be determined by the RNG is lame as far as I’m concerned.

The fractal thing is kind of tricky, because, as we see from swamp rolling, people would decide the set of four that is the quickest and never do any others, and it would become an orthodoxy.

As it is I can’t think of the last time I did underwater.

the solution to that is easy:

difficulty:reward ratios.

put better/more loot in the harder fractal chests.

Mai trin is harder than maw, but the rewards are the same. Personally I don’t like this design.

They are also one of the squishiest classes and require a fair investment of time to learn to play properly.

Painbow.6059:

Monk runes or altruism if you want to use cleric guard, but i’m warning you that it is a waste of gold. For more challenging content they are either going to have no idea and die anyway regardless of your healing, and your lack of damage wont allow you to push the fight. If they know what to do then your healing power will be wasted. This is just my opinion

might/fury on altruism runes doesn’t seem that useful – those should come from other sources.

More to the point I want my party mates to be aware that they aren’t providing those boons enough ( part of the goal with a clerics guard is to make it easier for people to learn to play their class at a given encounter).

As for being a waste of gold, that’s subjective and not the topic of the thread.

Fewix.4250:

Water runes ggez. mo heals mo betta

4 on water: remove a condition,
4 on monk: 10% boon duration, 645 heal ( hp coef 1.0) <— according to wiki.

6 on water: 600 range aoe heal of 645 (0.5 hp coeff).
6 on monk: 10% outgoing heal effectiveness increase.

Given that 10% is going to have a similar increase to the HP on the entire set of clerics gear it seems like a substantial boost.

Also condi clear typically I’ll be giving as a group wide effect via purging flames or absolute resolution( or yelling at staff ele to drop healing rains if we need that much clear..). so that seems pointless, especially as an on-hit effect.

inclined to say your argument for water runes isn’t very swaying.

agony resistance and asc isn’t an issue at all for me on this. Nore is dps. I already have an asc zerk+ scholar and asc cleric+trooper rune set.

Just trying to figure out if i want monk runes or stick with the trooper.
on the cleric set.
Looking at the numbers I’m leaning towards switch over to monk runes at the moment ( for the cleric set).

So, as many people of the fractal & dungeon forums know: clerics is a very handy stat for some of the more challenging content. Particularly when dealing with party mates who are still learning how to mitigate damage.

So what runes are the guards using for this purpose?

Running trooper runes at the moment.

monk runes have been suggested ( due to out-going heal increase).

Runes of earth/forgeman sound promising if using a hammer build ( may be overkill prot duration however).

rune of the defender looks insanely strong for personal sustain, but lacks group support.

mercy runes not going there. Not even entertaining them as a suggestion.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

NikeEU.7690:

Reasons to nerf Berserker gear offered so far… My responses on parenthesizes.

1. Bored. (you’re bored of the content. playing a healer won’t make doing AC more fun)

2. Diversity is a good goal. (We already have build diversity. gear diversity is enforced naturally by the challenge or lack thereof of the content)

3. I enjoy playing other roles than DPS… (so go play them, no one is stopping you!)

4. …but I don’t want to be ineffective. (So you really just want your roleplay build to get buffed)

5. Different gear should enable different playstyles. (Actually, it doesn’t have to do anything. There is no law that says that. Anet designed the game to have traits be a more meaningful determinant of your playstyle than your gear. Simply put, you WANT gear to enable playstyles but that is a far cry from saying is SHOULD enable playstyles.)

6. It makes the game too easy, fights are over before you have to dodge. (Thats a content problem not a gear problem. People who solo bosses take minutes to kill them and dodge a lot and wear berserker so they aren’t being blown up in seconds)

7. In Silverwastes Berserker isn’t meta (It is, but either you aren’t skilled enough to survive or you are but just aren’t aware of it.)

8. Well they should eliminate all gear stats and make all gear the same. (no one here disagrees)

9. Berserker isn’t fun for me. (That’s probably a content issue. Or a roleplaying issue. Or an issue of you not referring to my response to #3)

Can we have this comprehensive guide stickied please?

+1

Lyndis.4653:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

Would you like me to go find the patch notes from when they nerfed crit damage into ferocity?

IT is a widely known fact. I didn’t think it needed proof. but here you go:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-April-15-2014/first#post3896042

What evidence do I have that it didnt work?

Well we still have zerker meta dont we?

GG.

Well you misunderstood me if you think what I am talking about is close to the ferocity nerf.

I am not talking about lowering the highest amount of damage that can be reached but about increasing the base amount of damage you have regardless of gear. I stated that very clearly in my previous post.

Even though both my suggestion and the ferocity nerf are about changing stat curves, they don’t have the same purpose and I am for a much more drastic change than what was done.

The only problem I have with my own suggestion is that it could make characters too good when having near max damage while having high support stats. Even then, if those support options are unneeded zerk is still king but noone cares whether you run zerk or not unless you’re going for world records :p

You might want to quit the arrogant tone and read more accurately instead.

I’m sorry, I shall take more time to read walls of text that are just QQ damage output in future. /sarcasm.

Skoigoth.9238:

Algreg.3629:

the most important question in my opinion hasn´t been answered in any of these threads: Why exactly?

+1 That´s what I´m curious about every time a new “nerf zerker QQ”-thread comes up and nobody was able to give me a concise and convincing answer yet.

Fyi, “I don´t like it” is not a valid answer.

It’s pretty much the only justification we get though.

Or " I like how it works in other games"
(- so go play them then??)

Or just fluffy posts full of meaningless talk

Lyndis.4653:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

Lyndis.4653:

I don’t think your suggestion is the right way to do it.

If I were to handle this issue I’d just change the curve of both precision and ferocity so that going full zerk/assassin has a less drastic impact.

For instance 40% chance and +100% damage without zerk and 50% chance +125% damage with.

This way the zerk/assassin gear still gives optimum damage but others spec become more interesting because they don’t need to sacrifice so much to get their stats.

Really? This discussion again?
Ok.

They already tried this but it didn’t work. Meta won’t change. It will just make people more picky, more kick happy. More QQ elitist scum kicked me. So, still think this is a good idea to punish good players?

Game is not the exclusive domain of casual bad players.
Ktnxbai.

Hey chill out !

I just explained my view on the matter, I’m not the one who started the thread and don’t have too much problem with the current meta.

Your answer is not constructive since :

-You say they tested it without source/quote/proof… I don’t follow those forums daily so I can’t tell to what extent what you say is true.

-You say it didn’t work without explaining why it didn’t work. This is the most important part of the discussion if something failed ! We cannot discuss an alternative solution without this information you didn’t provide. Do you know what it was ?

-The rest of your post makes no sense. Being less handicaped by non-zerk players will make zerk players more picky and kick-happy ? There’s no punishment for good players (I’m not talking about nerfing zerk) but only less punishment for less skilled players. (The numbers I gave were just for comparison’s sake, I don’t know the actual values zerk gear gives, I play too many games to recall each ones’ specifics).

Please don’t answer if you’re not willing to actually discuss the matter.

Would you like me to go find the patch notes from when they nerfed crit damage into ferocity?

IT is a widely known fact. I didn’t think it needed proof. but here you go:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/updates/Game-Update-Notes-April-15-2014/first#post3896042

What evidence do I have that it didnt work?

Well we still have zerker meta dont we?

GG.

us or eu servers?

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

serenke.4806:

This actually makes the PvE fights more interesting as you have to use the active defenses or you’ll die.

For dungeons this is a load of BS (in my opinion) as I have been in some (Not many) Zerker groups now and the most important thing to remember is where to stack and what skills to use to reflect, mitigate or outheal damage in a blob full of NPCS and players where you can’t see anything but flashy effects. Well okay, you will “have to” use active defenses but it isn’t very skillfull play as you more or less just throw it out as soon as the fight starts. There are some bosses some enemies that needs more planning but this is true for players with other stats to as bosses hits so hard that their thoughness, Vitality or healing power doesn’t help anyway and THAT is why people go for Zerker becouse you die from a hit anyway.

So people stack with Zerkers to quicker kill lots of enemies before they kill you, if they kill one of your friends and no NPC dies it’s a quick ress if all four is stacked to help rez and also Boons like protection and might will be easier to stack up/renew to all members if you stack up and finally skills like reflect will mostly protect everyone from NPC’s that are ranged.

If I would go with a Zerker group and starting to run around and fight my enmies head on I would get kicked before I could say ‘Hi’.

Zerker needs skills to stay alive yes, as you are glass. Zerker team in dungeons needs no skills as you will mostly stack and kill.

most content is designed so people with bad pings can still get active defences off.
Many of them are extremely long compared to the window in which they need to be up.

This is to make things easier to learn.

The best still find the tells for things in those particle effects and time things precisely to achieve maximum effect.

however there are still a vast majority of players that have no idea when/how to use the right skills at all. Many who won’t replace a useless skill, for one which can change the fate of an encounter.

Classic “I know how to play like a pro” but really don’t. I hear this all the time from abusive pugs.

A Volcano.2510:

Does healing power affect regen? If not, why not?

ofc it does.

It even got changed a few months back. Historically it used the HP of the entity it was applied to. Now the applicators HP is used. ( try applying regen to an npc, then swapping to a clerics weapon)

Sigh.

Yet again this thread is going over ground that has been discussed before.
Ideas that have been suggested before.

but GG circle talkers.
I guess the mods aren’t bright enough to merge/lock the meta threads.

edit:
looky
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/lets-talk-healing-power-and-roles/first

another thread talking about gear stats running concurrently.

People hated babysitting npcs in gw1

Togo, rurik.. I suspect some of the slang names I. Know of would get me infracted.

Something that’s being missed by some is the idea that: you can do damage and heal on the same build. In varying proportions. You can still get gold event credit trying to heal people. Which is something I love about gw2. No pigeon holing into one role?

IllegalChocolate.6938:

They won’t get locked less the subject gets derailed or the discussion runs its course, in which it will get locked at that point. If you guys are so tired of seeing them then just simply walk away, no one is forcing you guys to come into these threads and posting your thoughts in the same way that no one is forcing us to simply form our own groups to play the content to our desired paces.

Its just that simple.

To take your own advice.

Get

Over

It.

Illegal, please see my post further up, linking no less than six threads on this topic. It has run its course. Many, many times over. This is fair cause for merges or locks.

maha.7902:

let’s put aside the smoke and mirrors.

a simple question.

do you wish tankier stat combinations to be stronger, if not actually preferred by one or multiple party members in group content?

a simple yes or no will suffice.

Good question.
I want them to be preferred when one or more party members isn’t able to actively avoid enough damage for any reason. Oh wait…

Leo G.4501:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

I have yet to see any reason for which stats have/should to alter play style.
Could they? yes.
but why should they?
Please, enlighten me.

Perhaps you’re not reading then? People have posted plenty of reasons. Are they all good reasons? Perhaps not. I try to analyze and understand others’ position to help aid in crafting better ideas around more solid reasons but one thing I’ve decided to stop doing is constantly repeat myself. Not going to waste my time attempting to discuss something with someone who is obviously completely against actually discussing anything.

So you have no opinion as to why it should change?
Just that it should change because.
Fluffy bunny posts?

Pointless changes to ruin gw2 because you want to play a different game it seems.

maha.7902:

im actually so fed up of these threads

look at literally any game ever. there is always a meta, either static or fluid, you can’t escape it.

GET

OVER

IT

It’s about time the mods locked them on sight.

Lyndis.4653:

I don’t think your suggestion is the right way to do it.

If I were to handle this issue I’d just change the curve of both precision and ferocity so that going full zerk/assassin has a less drastic impact.

For instance 40% chance and +100% damage without zerk and 50% chance +125% damage with.

This way the zerk/assassin gear still gives optimum damage but others spec become more interesting because they don’t need to sacrifice so much to get their stats.

Really? This discussion again?
Ok.

They already tried this but it didn’t work. Meta won’t change. It will just make people more picky, more kick happy. More QQ elitist scum kicked me. So, still think this is a good idea to punish good players?

Game is not the exclusive domain of casual bad players.
Ktnxbai.

I guess I got flooded with reports for pointing out the following:
remove berserker = new stat becomes meta = new QQ thread about stat X.

but Whatever.
Lets have another thread discussing the use of berserkers gear.

For the purposes of making this post “constructive” enough:

changing meta for the sake of it = stupid idea.

To use something i mentioned in another thread on the EXACT SAME TOPIC:
greater skill = less reliance on defensive stats.
lesser skill= greater need on defensive stats.

But its not like people have QQ’d in the past:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Ascalonian-Catacombs-is-too-hard-now-I-think/first

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/67240-dungeons-are-too-hard-i-know-i-know-thousandth-thread-on-this/

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/To-hard-for-average-players

oh wait. People even got sick of hearing this:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Dungeons-are-too-hard-blah-blah-blah/first#post1680497

Zerker requires a lot of practice, skill,reflexes, knowledge to use.
No need to remove, it is working as it should.

Now moderators, can we put these threads to bed please?
This is already the deadest of horses.

EDIT: thought you may be interested to see previous threads on this topic

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Found-dead-the-Zerker-meta/first#post4834312

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Idea-to-solve-Zerker-meta/first#post4641585

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Zerker-meta-Possible-solutions

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/archive/balance/The-zerker-meta-and-how-to-change-it

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Dodge-mechanic-makes-Zerker-builds-viable/first

• aha! I found the behemoth!*

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/This-Meta-has-to-end/first

rotten.9753:

There are no fights that require a decent amount of offensive support. If you want fights that require much more defense, they should also design bosses with enrage timers, let’s say you need avg. 15 mights and fury for the duration of the entire encounter or you will fail. Sounds fair to me because there are no encounters that would teach players how to play offensively, the existing bosses with timers are very easy to met.

Start this concept off gently with a world boss that isn’t very dangerous ( say in a 15-25 zone) but does require high might/fury uptime to beat. Progressively adding bosses ( upgrading existing ones) to require higher damage gear/traits to complete in time. Making them progressively more dangerous so more learn to use their active defenses and support skills also?

That could have interesting results.

we could do with something like this to make it possible though
We still need something in game to show people combo fields ( a bit of text on level up isn’t cutting it imo). Had to explain to someone with AP around 17k ( should be a fair amount of time in the game) how fire field blasting worked the other day.

Add a heart quest to make combos? The npc can have dialog tailored to each class, maybe with skills listed ( like when using a chat code).
I remember an achievement for making combos, so detecting them shouldn’t be too hard.

Anything to help make the learning curve easier to traverse for people..

There are a few kittens on here, the posts of whom I really wish I didn’t have to see.

Is it possible to get such a block feature?

Windsagio.1340:

NikeEU.7690:

Windsagio.1340:

NikeEU.7690:

Is the concept of Active Defense not “inherent to GW2”? The second the combat was designed around active defense, positioning and parry/blocks PvE was destined to be dominated by glass cannon builds among players at the skill/experience cap. It may not be exactly how the developers envisioned it, but it is the inevitable end result of that decision.

The concept of active defenses does not make glass king, the high power of the active defenses makes glass king.

Do you see the difference? It’s all in the numbers and the balance.

As your buddy noted, they’re not going to touch old content much, but we’re seeing the new content already impacting things — just not in a form where you’d want to have the ‘meta’ discussion.

If you take the current balance as the be-all and end-all and as what must be in the system, you’re making a pretty basic mistake.

Active defense in this game is binary. You dodge or you don’t. You block or you don’t. You stand out of the arc of attack or red circle or you don’t. You can make content where those things are more challenging or less challenging to do, but those are binary actions.

Active defense is binary, but lets take (and admittedly crazy) test case.

Let’s say every 3 seconds the boss pulses a dodge/blockable 500 damage attack on the whole area in addition to his normal attacks. The boss has wyvern style defiance and enough health that at max dps it’s a 5 minute fight

There are problems with this fight (numbers are kitten -pulled so they might be very wrong), but it’s (hopefully) illustrative of a point so I hope we can stay focused on that.

The fight takes a very different flavor, because toughness and healing support (and protection) are much much much more important than dps or active defenses. Aegis will be stripped almost immediately and even if the pulse was worth dodging it’s not realistic to be able to keep your dodges up even with vigor.

There, simply, is a fight that would work within the current system but emphasizes a whole different set of defensive abilities and actions than the current model. It’s not likely that they’d do so much to deemphasize active defenses, but it’s a design decision not to.

If they wanted to design encounters that made toughness more valuable, they could. If they wanted to design encounters where dodge was useless, they could. They choose not to, but nothing in the system forces them to play exactly like the existing archetype you’re used to from dungeons.

so..
hammer guard?
occasional healing rain/geyser?
^ add some blasts for muchos win.
Use tactics or defence banner?
Take strength in numbers guardian trait?

Just a few ideas to counter 500/3sec attack.

Ever met sparki/slick?
They fire these AoE fields that cause everyone to take 400/sec/ oil field.

Granted you have an ooze that can clear them, but this requires someone off melee range, doing little-no dps while kiting the ooze. This is also on top of the regular attacks.

400/sec/field ( or 1200/3sec/ field) is also far more damage than 500/3sec.

Fact is to make this hard enough to completely push people out of zerker gear, you’d make it so hard the majority of the player base would never beat it. Something anet doesn’t want to occur.

Leo G.4501:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

Leo G.4501:

Artemis Thuras.8795:

“playing offensively without offensive gear will lower your damage by like 60% everything you do will be substantially less effective.”

-Doesn’t alter the play style.

“playing offensively in nomads and clerics gear is not playing offensively. because you are 60% lower than max effecincy”

-still, doesn’t change the play style.

“playing defensively in berserker can still have you at max effeciency, which is not taking enough damage to kill you.”

Lol kind of the point. It doesn’t alter the playstyle which is the issue that could be changed.

But yeah you guys are posting a lot (most of it repeating the same thing). I’ll try to make some responds when I get home. . .

please begin with:
“This is why I think stats should alter playstyle..”

And no “because other games do it that way” is not a good answer.

Already mentioned the various points that could be changed due to this, from types of encounters to rewards.

And no, I don’t have to start with that. I worded the sentence just fine to leave space for discussion. I’m not trying to dominate the discussion like some attempt to do.

I have yet to see any reason for which stats have/should to alter play style.
Could they? yes.
but why should they?
Please, enlighten me.