Guild Wars 2

@LoRdZeRo.5364
Those warriors and guardians… so sooo angry -shivers-

Yes, i have been playtesting 5/25/10/30/0 and will admit it is very strong for sustain. It breaks my heart moving away from unblockable marks though as I’ve secured some amazing kills with it and nothing is more satisfying as fearing the head of an enemy melee train thats passed through and are on there block/ healing phase.

Your correct on them variations and i would agree these would be suitable variations if you did want to drop greater marks;
5/25/10/30/0
0/30/10/30/0
0/25/10/20/15

I don’t think i would ever consider going more then 5 points into spite and the 5 point itself has me split. The snowball effect it brings is nice but typically when people start getting stomped and this starts procing the fight usually begins to tip in your favor (unless some 30 spite point necro dies and rallies all the downed enemies :P)

Those 2 minor Death Magic traits are terrible and i would never call anything more then 10 points in DM mandatory.

@Dredlord.8076
I think it would be impossible to take Target the Weak and 30% condition duration without completely changing the builds ratios away from tanky Wellomancer. The 8-16% is based more on allies applying conditions more then yourself.

With the build mainly dealing direct damage and Plagues conditions being 1 second in duration the only thing the condition duration would affect to the point of being beneficial would be Axe 2, Staff 2 & 3. Then we have to factor in water fields, shout warriors & guardians and all the other cleanse heavy builds in the current meta.

Soul Reaping is a much more feasible tree to go into for damage whilst maintaining some of the tankiness you need and are expected from your team (especially since the DS health and Spectral Armour change).

Sorry i meant transmute and then salvage xD. Even without, 18g can be made in a night or 2 with the current price of heavy loot bags.

Currently 10 fine transmutation stones will cost you just under 13g so buying them and 420k on 10 armour sets you can sell the remaining 4 Melandru runes for 11g after taxes.

@sas.6483
An 0/30/0/20/20 is quite a viable build too, as i mentioned before if i did ever change for more damage Soul Reaping would be the tree i go into with something like 0/25/10/20/15. I tend to favor Deadly Strength alot though because 9/12 pieces and runes add toughness were-as your using Carrion but i would give up toughness if its made up in health (or DS health in this case).

I do think sPvP players really underestimate Vampiric and Vampiric Precision in WvW. The sheer amount of people you tag a second with 9 AoE skills and then Plague makes for pretty consistent healing and true damage.

I have considered running Dagger infact its a topic were discussing right now in SoR TS3 (a immobilize + epidemic combo) but having used axe since beta i would find it difficult to change especially considering Unholy Feast is stupid right now (18 second Retaliation going into Plague does so much damage).

@Anchoku.8142
Chill builds are quite effective, i use to run a chill build long ago and it was really fun. Melandru runes might be expensive to buy but remember they are runes on temple armour so 252k karma will get you the runes from salvaging.

@Aphix.9846
When i say prove i mean stuff like videos or footage of the said build actually in action in a remotely similar environment to a 50 vs. 50 fight outside a garrison or such. There are so many factors you cant account for when theorycrafting such as siege, enemy placements, how many melee and how many backline est.

As you’ve clearly said and is the whole point of my argument, the most important thing in GvG is not dying and a 30 spite point build has much higher chances of dying then a Toughness heavy counterpart.

Your typical path you pointed out on a previous post is spot on and what i would recommend to every Necromancer starting out in WvW. Start full PTV and tweak and tweak until your comfortable you can survive a 20 man melee train to the face and yes we do have to account for the meta difference between NA and EU (NA tend to run superzerg full BLs with heavy melee trains comprised mostly of guardians).

Warhorn offhand isn’t as vital as i might of made it out to be, if anything its preference that i would recommend for the large syncs it has with Plague and Deathshroud but when Plaguing, blinding is the only logical option and Chilling Darkness syncs perfectly with its disruption.

And yes your opinions actually have more credit to me as i can clearly see you’ve spent alot of time in WvW on a high ranked server on a Necro with high rank points and have spoken about guild fights and i thank you for your calm and constructive feedback.

I play this build at least 6 hours everyday in T1 WvW both commanding and following, im in the highest ranked NA GvG guild fighting some of the best guilds in the game.

Maybe you shouldn’t be questioning my experiences and more informing us of yours which you still haven’t done.

Theorycrafting is also based alot on guessing as there not put into practice. I never said your opinion is worth nothing, just to me.

Nothing wrongs with theorycrafting either, just look at Altroll he theorycrafts alot. Until there proven effective thats all they are, theories, guesses at what you think will work.

When you prove to me 30 point Spite Wellomancers work and don’t get your team killed through countless enemy rallies because of your lack of defense then ill take your opinion as something other then theorycrafting guesswork.

There is nothing more to discuss, its up to others if they want to run 30 point Spite for a Well build or not but im simply saying it will not work in a GvG situation because the trade-offs will get you killed more then you kill.

I’m basing my opinions on my experience in WvW, I’ve been playing Wellomancer in WvW for over 10 months (the majority of that T1). You have yet to say anything about your experiences (both in GvG WvW in general and with a 30 point spite GvG build if you have even used such a build) because currently it just looks like your theorycrafting a build with nothing to back it up.

Your opinions are dearly noted, and disregarded. Incase you cant read i pointed out what this thread was started for, here is it again;

“I’ve promised allot of people who keep up with my WvW builds that I would make a thread about my build and answer and questions people might have on it so here it is!”

Nowere did it say i was looking for advice on my build and especially by someone whose theorycrafting and most probably haven’t even used there ideas in live combat GvG.

I think its safe to say flow touched on an important thing were all overlooking, my playstyle.

I tend favor survivability over damage because i know if i die and rally an enemy server i would never hear the end of it from my guild (the dreaded words we all don’t want to hear called from your guild leader, “more PTV”).

This was why i also posted what i would consider a ‘bare minimum’ for the build to still be effective and for people to play on.

I cant help but feel this should be turned into a full series.

@Linguistically Inept.6583
I knew what me meant (crippling would keep someone in plague and cancel out the need for chills) however im just trying to say that when plaguing, you have to be blinding. Anything other is a hindrance for your team and cost you dearly. Chilling has many other benefits apart from slowing there movement and that’s why its traited.

@Rodyan.9241
The build can be changed to 0/30/20/20/0 taking Banshee’s Wail and Sigil of Paralyzation for 4 second Dazes but i ultimately decided not to continue as i preferred the slight boost in power and toughness. Don’t get me wrong both its a very strong build and i wouldn’t think twice to change back to it if the situation calls for it! Purely player preference.

Both Banshees Wail and the Sigil wont change the Daze duration on the tooltip, its a bug.

Correct i was using Beryl/ Ruby orbs but changed to Melandru last month due to the massive influx of Necromancers after there buffs. Having been playing with the full -65% condition duration since then I’ve actually been kicking myself for not using them earlier. The reduction really takes the pressure of stacking vitality and keeps Plague going that much longer.

I would recommend swapping to Melandrus, but the raw damage from Beryls/ Rubies is equally as good as long as you can survive melee train engagements!

@sorrow.2364
You missed out big fundamentals such as Target the Weak, the Precision (seen as this is a high critical damage build) Condition damage and your lack of experience makes you think stuff like Chilling Darkness is not important.

I’ve thought about what you said and told you why IMO it would not work, take it or leave it but i was not looking for advice on my build when i started this thread. I was looking to give advice for people who use similar builds and take questions on it.

You evaluated the pros of your build, with no cons and the cons of my build, with no pros. This is not a discussion or debate its a biased opinion.

And yes, i claim to be a prophet of WvW compared to you. I’ve provided builds, videos and experience quotes, you’ve provided a negative criticism that nothing but your point of view is correct with nothing to back it up.

Chill > Cripple.
Blind >= Weakness.
Shout guardians, warriors & water fields > long condition durations.

Your evaluations are based (i assume) on your opinions and not experience unless you can tell me otherwise. Simple fact is if your doing anything but blinding when you front-line dive an enemy backline you will be ripped to pieces and you will end up rallying the enemy zerg and cost your server the fight.

Remember that, this isn’t sPvP were your death rallies 1 maybe 2 people and you lose a point Your death in WvW could rally the 20+ people you tagged and downed and Necromancers tag more enemies then any other class in WvW.

You also seem to be viewing this from a solo and not a teamfight point of view, blind & chill is invaluable for your melee train to survive, if they die you die. Blinding 100 attacks straight out has much more of an impact then reducing there damage for slightly longer duration, any conditions/ stuns that would of been inflicted are also blinded remember.

Your evaluations and mine differ, i feel the situational damage spike at the cost of survivability and utility is too much to give up, you don’t. End of.

Score update surrounded by the remains of BG.

sorrow.2364:

So does the Plague of Pestilence. It also mess the enemy endurance regen and, most important, you don’t need a trait to keep your enemy into the plague.

So your saying you would not use Plague of Darkness when in Plague…? You would take -50% damage vs. -100% damage by blinding the attack.

I think this alone covers your WvW experience, which is none.

This is amazing, your a legend. Keep them coming.

@Linguistically Inept.6583
2 second AoE daze is pretty strong and Locust Swarm syncs amazingly with Plague effectively doubling up on damage, life siphons, tagging people and cripples keeping people in the Plague in the first place.

Dagger isn’t bad as an offhand, but Dagger 4 has very limited use with -65% condition duration and Dagger 5 is quite a slow AoE to land. TBH i think offhand is purely player choice and not a must like axe is, i just prefer it because Locust Swarm is pure passive damage so you can DS, plague ect and still gain its effects and benefits (like 50 procs of Vampiric and Vampiric Precision).

+30% condition duration is quite useless (IMO) in WvW large scale in general because of the AoE cleanses and water field busts most zergs run in the current meta. All of Necros disruptive conditions are in very small bursts (mainly 1-2 seconds with Plague and Locust Swarm) making extending them quite pointless and cleansing them quite hard.

@Aphix.9846
Having Well of Corruption off 8 seconds sooner is huge considering it could be the difference between stripping a 25 might stacked melee train and being hit by it and being a more damage heavy build compared to typical Wellomancers who run Well of Darkness, Suffering off 7 seconds sooner begins to add up as the fight progresses. Life siphoning may seem small, but when your consistently tagging 5 people every second or sooner (staff nuking) the 25 & 42 life & damage really adds up.

Spectral Walk is purely a personal choice, infact I’ve messed with Armour too. There are some things ill argue are a must have (such as corruption and chilling darkness) but Walk us purely optional. Amour is indeed far superior for LF boosting (though that’s usually never an issue once the snowball effect begins to roll out) but i prefer walk for the perm swiftness with horn and duking abilities which has saved my life alot.

Though if i was to alter my build from 0/25/25/20/0 i think Soul Reaping would be the tree i head into (especially since the doubling of DS-HP) i would use something along the lines of 0/25/10/20/15 an use Walk for the LF stacking with traited armour and swapping to -15% DS CD when killing siege on walls.

I wont lie though given the recent tweaks to DS-HP and spectral armour i have been attempting points in this to see if the loss of toughness is made up in DS-health. 15% boon duration for 15% damage is what im working on atm, 15% longer 25 might stacks or Retaliation in Plague is difficult to convert to numbers to compare vs. 15% damage.

And thank you, you’ve probably had the most constrictive criticism so far rather then people who have never been in WvW blindly suggesting stuff.

@sorrow.2364
Chilling Darkness is worth it and there’s no question about it. It disrupts enemy movement by a huge amount, messes with skill rotations and cooldowns and keeps them in the Plague in the first place.

I’m not sure were your drawing your GvG wvw experience from, but 250 toughness and 25% boon duration for 200 power is not worth the trade in WvW. Let me put it another way, you cant deal damage if your dead and if you make bad trades like that you will be dead.

@sorrow.2364
Both Chilling Darkness and Focused Rituals are required for this build. I’m not sure what you mean by Target the Weak isn’t required because this is not a damage build as this is usually a perm +8% damage boost by itself reaching anything up to 16% (with no requirements like enemies being below 50% life).

@Lokyate.1387 & Liquid.9672
Indeed i have a offhand Warhorn with a bloodlust sigil to stack to 25 .

@Atroll
I’m all for build criticism, but not suggestions by someone who doesn’t play or understand WvW and has no clue about what there saying. I prefer logical questions like Dredlord has put and not random guesses.

@Dredlord.8076
Yes maybe it is a cynical of looking at the trait and im not denying Close to Death is a strong trait, but the tradeoffs are just not worth it. For the 300 power and 20% more damage below 50% you have to lose 8-16% damage from Target the Weak, 250 Toughness, 25% boon duration (which is 3.75 seconds of Retaliation which when Plaguing is massive) and 100 Power anyway.

Heading deep into Spite is moving out of tanky territory and into power builds, which this type of build is not. This is a primary tank build as expected from a Plague Necro but gives up the vitality for precision and critical damage.

Rmpz.7031:

Sorry for asking, but are you a youtuber/streamer since you talk about people asking for your build?

If so I would love to watch some www gameplay from you to see how the build works

Yes i do though none within the last month. My channel is here and videos using this build can be found here, here, here and here. I also spoke about Necros in WvW, commanding and other stuff during my But of Corpse Podcast last month.

SupahSpankeh.8452:

I dunno. I’d consider myself a “wellomancer”, but I don’t have the well CD trait. I too use WoS and WoC to put the hurt on zergs, but I think 30/10/0/0/30 is a better trait allocation as it’ll give 20% more damage when below 50%, more power, 30% more crit damage and 50% crit chance. I think that’s far more important than taking the well CD trait… I’ll generally do 12-14k damage to a glass cannon player if they stay in for the duration.

Using Close to Death has crossed my mind more then once but ultimately decided against it for the following reasons;

• Unless the enemy is below 50% life, its a completely useless trait.
• +30% condition duration has little benefits on this build.
• For the 300 power, your losing 250 toughness, 50 precision & 150 power (from Deadly Strength)
• With easy access to Cripple, Chill, Poison, Bleed and Vulnerability you naturally already do 10% from Target the Weak, then throw in ally conditions.
• 5, 15 and 25 traits in Spite are very weak.
• You have to drop one of the (IMO) must have traits for an effective Wellomancer build.

30/10/0/0/30 is moving off Wellomancers by quite alot (and moving into Havoc/ Roaming territory). I should of probably pointed out this build is purely for large scale fights. 30/10/0/0/30 would be dropping alot of survivability for damage when the goal for this build is to balance them.

SupahSpankeh.8452:

S’only my opinion though, if you’re happy rockin 20 BM then you shine on you beautiful diamond!

Having Corruption off cooldown 8 seconds sooner sometimes is the difference between stripping 25 stacks of Might from a Melee train and being hit by it. The 200 Healing Power is bad i know, but the 200 Vitality is very nice for returns in E-Health and now Deathshroud and Vampiric + Vampiric Precision offer much greater returns when your tagging 10 people per second then in solo combat.

To give it abit more light, dropping Suffering and Corruption, using Locust Swarm and then Plaguing (a typical engage rotation) can proc off a maximum of 215 hits (if 5 targets are hit with each skill) which will damage and heal for 9,890 over the 20 seconds (assuming 50% of the hits crit too). This isn’t also factoring in Fury.

@sorrow Ground targetable wells is a must, it destorys siege placements on walls. You forgot to point out the loss of 150 precision and 2% damage per condition both of which impact this build alot. The 15% boon duration you classed as ‘not needed at all’ pushes Retaliation from axe to 18.5 seconds which almost fully covers the duration of Plague and you also forgot the 150 power from Deadly Strength.

@TheMightyAltroll.3485 Im not sure if you even WvW at all, but Ritual Masteries is needed for a well build. Having one of the strongest AoE skills off CD 7 second sooner and a 30 boon stripping AoE off CD 8 second sooner is massive.

I’m not sure why your contradicting yourself with Vampiric seen as it was you who called it garbage full in or not so stop embarrassing yourself. When plaguing with locust swarm on your healing for up to 670 health per second from just these 2 traits.

The fact you said “why do you even have Plague Form on this?” makes me and every single teamfight Necro laugh in your face. You don’t know what your talking about so stop posting.

With all due respect Altroll (which is none) i posted this thread for the people who follow my builds in WvW and not for advice or tips on it. Ive run this particular build for over 4 months now, Ive been running Wellomancer for over 10 months and Ive been running axe/ warhorn since beta. This isn’t some build I’ve slapped together with 5 mins testing, given a fancy name and labeled “meta” like all your builds.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Good idea for a build, however Vampirism is very gimmicky if you do not go all out on it. I’d take the 20 points from Vampirism, and put it in Soul Reaping, or Spite. Especially if you want to use Axe for your damage, then go for Axe Mastery. Or if you want more survivability, go for Soul Marks in Reaping.

Warhorn doesn’t synergize well with Axe. Infact, Warhorn only synergizes with Dagger. Sigil of Accuracy is unnecessary with Furious Demise, and a base 45% crit chance.

Hope this helps.

I don’t know were to start with this post. Lets see… I’ll start off with a quote to Vampiric by you:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Ascii.9726:

Vampiric now scales with power.

6 points.

Dear lord have mercy, Vampires are viable and OP.

Next, 20 Points in Blood Magic isn’t for Vampiric, that’s just a minor trait you have to pick up. The points are in there for Ritual Mastery which is a must for a well build. Lets not forget Vampiric and Vampiric Precision are 25 and 42 true damage on any direct damage including siege.

I’m not sure how you came to the conclusion that Warhorn doesnt ‘synergize’ with Axe as it does. Warhorn is also in the build because the AoE daze is killer in WvW and Locust Swarm synergizes with plague amazingly.

Axe is not used for damage at all, and Axe mastery would cost too much in trait points to justify. Axe is used for the AoE boon stripping, cripple and 18 seconds of retaliation that (when synergized with warhorn 5 and plague) leaves you crippling, chilling, blinding, poisoning, retaliation damage and 2 lots of Vampiric & Vampiric Precision every second to 5 targets.

Chilling Darkness provides 1 second chills when Plaguing to 5 people every second. Although it seems small it provides massive disruption to backline cooldowns and is a vital trait for teamfighting in WvW.

You cant simply put 30 points in Spite for what seems like a power boost by Close to Death. The amount of survivability you would give up for this requirement based trait is not worth the trade by itself. You would have to give up some vital traits that make a Wellomancer build work as-well.

I’ve promised allot of people who keep up with my WvW builds that I would make a thread about my build and answer and questions people might have on it so here it is!

My build is based on a standard requirement for a Wellomancer build except I’ve based my entire build around the Cavalier’s ascended trinkets. This particular style puts out allot of damage with higher toughness to make up for the drop in vitality.

The concept is to maximize AoE damage whilst maintaining a high level of survivability as expected. With 50% critical chance the build benefits heavily from Vampiric, Vampiric Precision and Sigils of Blood to provide routine healing and the Melandru + Lemongrass combo to null out most of the condition damage.

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNBHhZakRLcvSTTjfPBIz46nnU494xMGeZA-jUCBoiCiEGBiIAMBqIaslRFRjVbDTFjIq2cORG0DrWKAmEGB-w

When tweaking the build I stick to the following set of rules:

• 2700 or more attack.
• 2700 or more armour.
• 50% critical chance.
• 50% or more critical damage.

With this being the minimum requirement for skills, traits and armours:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fQAQNBHhZYkRvSTTjfPBIV46JFAMekihXG-jkwAEmAVGLiGbMAMB-w
(Choosing Bloodthirst if below 40% critical chance or Vampiric Precision if above).

Pros of the build:

• Deals heavy AoE damage regularly.
• Heals allot more health over time then a standard build.
• Can front-line Plague tank much longer then a standard build.
• Can solo supply camps.

Cons of the build:

• Extremely expensive to put together.
• Terrible at solo fighting.
• Riskier playing then a standard build for inexperienced players, a death could mean a 40-man enemy rally.

Happy to answer any and all questions on this build, any build or WvW in general.

Live Score Updates: http://mos.millenium.org/na
Live Map Updates: http://mos.millenium.org/na/matchups/map/865

Welcome Tarnished Coast, long time no see!

Have fun and keep the thread clean!

In my own experience, knowing the enemy teams Necromancer has no or very little (if you manage to pull off the buggy pet swapping before your skills are locked out) Lifeforce makes them the primary target at the start of the fight.

Whilst they have no access to there class skills you can take full advantage of yours (attunement swapping, virtues, pets, gadgets, easy-access clones, one-heal full adrenaline and of course initiative being regened faster then it can be spammed).

Allie Murdock.8152:

Also, if we gave necros death shroud, should we give warriors adrenaline? Should we give thieves initiative? Should we give everyone everything they ever wanted?.

Correct me if im wrong but don’t thieves start out with full initiative?

Giving some kind of life-force pool to Necromancers would be giving them access to there unique mechanic which pretty much every other class has full access to at the start, and its not like its an accident we start off at 0% LF, any LF you have built is removed at the 10 second countdown.

Fungalfoot.7213:

And to illustrate my point.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Block

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Vigor

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Evade

Note that every other class in the game is represented while one is conspicuously absent. And now our one way of meaningfully preventing damage is GONE.

Don’t forget Invulnerability.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Invulnerability

Issue is still persisting, why has there not been one official response to this? This is affecting the T1 matchup in quite a big way.

Issue is still persisting, why has there not been one official response to this? This is affecting the T1 matchup in quite a big way.

Issue is still persisting, Green team have gained at least 2500 points from this bug.

This issue still exists, Green team have so far gained at least 1,000 free points because this tower cannot be flipped, something needs to be done about this.

Pretty serious issue, currently the Guild Lord is missing from Redlake in Blackgates borderland (green) in WvW. We have spent 30 mins+ completely ripping apart the tower and shes nowhere to be seen. I have also personally Life Transferred every wall to see if shes stuck inside one and not found anything.

Recently i have begun to notice this alot around WvW, such as Veteran Archers (usually on tower walls) on the ground outside towers and Quartermasters along way away from there typical spots. I’m not sure if this is people finding out how to move NPC’s or them bugging out of there own accord but this relocation of the Tower Lord is giving Blackgate +10 points and cannot be prevented.

Pretty serious issue, currently the Guild Lord is missing from Redlake in Blackgates borderland (green) in WvW. We have spent 30 mins+ completely ripping apart the tower and shes nowhere to be seen. I have also personally Life Transferred every wall to see if shes stuck inside one and not found anything.

Recently i have begun to notice this alot around WvW, such as Veteran Archers (usually on tower walls) on the ground outside towers and Quartermasters along way away from there typical spots. I’m not sure if this is people finding out how to move NPC’s or them bugging out of there own accord but this relocation of the Tower Lord is giving Blackgate +10 points and cannot be prevented.

Live Score Updates: http://mos.millenium.org/na
Live Map Updates: http://mos.millenium.org/na/matchups/map/831

CC Danicia.1394:

We’ve decided to lock this thread due to the amount of .gif spamming and disrespectful comments towards other players.

Please not that spamming .gifs is not appropriate for our forum.

Since this keeps occurring, we’ve decided that if it continues, we will remove the ability to post images/attachments to this particular forum.

For the remaining duration of the matchups, have fun, keep the thread clean and .gif clear!

gebrechen.5643:

After getting rid of all that fat, SoR now is at 29% bodyfat percentage and so it seems they are stacked!

Die Cuddles die! You have been killed, now you go to cuddle heaven.

Good fights 2night guys, was fun. Looking forward to another week of the Tier 1 champs!

Score update! sieging Blackgates spawn in JQ-BL

Recipe for FUN!

Give peace a chance!

Score update!

Score update!

Thank you GoF for leaving us a Heroes Banner in bay when we took it, its been very useful when collecting our bags!

That was one hell of a fight inside bay on JQ map, held by BG. Good fights all!.

Score update! Just waiting for someone to make there move… :p

Score update!

This guy really wants that veil. :P

Geez, very interesting start to the matchup.

Score update!

LetoII.3782:

Interesting to see Vodka break tradition and try naming red first.

There can only be one!

Interesting to see Blackgate red, should make EB much more fun.