Guild Wars 2

Zid.4196:

You do realize this market is controlled by a small elite of TP manipulators who buy off precurors and relist only a few?

^^This. And the worst part of it all, this is well supported from Anet

There is only one thing that i am disappointed with. The business direction of the game.

Even though i know that the developers work really hard (and it shows) end game (getting rare skins, legendaries, etc) points straight to the gem store.

The massive grind required for all things end game and the lack of real story/achievement driven objectives further point to that direction. I don’t like to consipracycraft but there’s hardly any evidence or statements to disprove mine and other people’s concerns.

Oh, and the sheer support of the wall street mentality, which practically doubles the price for very rare items (lodestones, precursors, exotic skins)each month is truly disheartening.

TLDR: The economic model is my issue, nothing more or less, driving me farther away from spending $ simply because it looks overly greedy.

Takes one cookie and runs of hastily…Gotta grind some more!

Condas.7056:

The charged lodes for Infinite Light would cost someone 1100g right now, that isn’t the one you are going for is it?

Going for bolt. Yes, i know there are people out there who need 250 of these. I can hardly grasp how its even possible to buy them since at times there arent even that many listed on the tp

171 ectos for 77 clovers. did mostly 10’s

Deadcell.9052:

Red Falcon.8257:

Man I don’t know why you’re punishing yourself so much.
Legendaries aren’t supposed to be farmed for, you slowly accumulate gold and then buy them months later.
Enjoy the game and don’t go mad on obsessions.

This is true, but problem is the longer you wait to start the harder it will be to obtain, between ANet constantly tampering with drop rates, massive inflation of prices on all materials and precursors needed to complete the task it will turn into a never ending grind, and if you have bad rng you may never get it.

Sorry for the rant but I am a bit bitter due to using up 315 globs of ectoplasm and being stuck at 64 mystic clovers, not to mention I haven’t gotten a single T6 mat other than ancient bones and piles of crystalline dust and 3 whole Lodestones for my hammer since mid November, its like my account has a perma DR on it.

Come to think of it now I don’t know why I am punishing myself so much!, Maybe its time for a break and play something happy and friendly like little big planet or something.

100 times this, man. The harder you wait, the harder it gets because the avg gold making will never catch up to the inflation.

But 315 ecto? Jesus, man. Did my clovers with 171 ecto. Thats one thing i have been lucky with. Have you been doing 1’s??? Try 10’s maybe?

nawrasz.6219:

It’s pretty easy to make 3-5 gold an hour. Say 4 gold an hour you’d need 100 hours in total of farming lodestones, probably more like around 80 or so when you include lucky drops/rares while doing dungeons. I’m not going to say this is realistic or over the top. All in all I still think it’s too “easy” to aquire a legendary on this game, considering what it’s supposed to be. The only thing I would say that’s ridiculous is the amount of repetitiveness involved. I understand having to take a long time to achieve a certain goal, but things like having to repeat the jumping puzzles over and over to get the badges or farm FotM for obsidians or Karma/doing Balthezar to get the clovers etc is pretty painful.

I’m not sure which games you’ve played before but there are games out there who have items/weapons/armors that take MONTHS of doing the same thing every single day over and over to achieve them. Legendary on here isn’t that bad (still bad though) compared to those games.

I do make 3g per hour. That is not the issue. It is that i have to do this for around 1 month. The repetitiveness. ..god

I just finished yet another hourly charged lodestone grind with 0 drops. And then it hit me: I have to spend between 150-250 hours to either farm for charged lodestones or farm them. By my playing standards that is around month and approximately 400g(by buying the cores instead)

Before you say that i want it easy mode or that i feel entitled to anything, i have finished most of my expensive gifts including fortune and i have no issues finishing up the rest of them BUT

Farming for Lodestones is a new level of grind, one that i have never seen in my 10 years of playing mmos and has to be by far the worst thing i have ahead of me.

My question is: Was this how the quest for a legendary really envisioned? Has anyone who developed this concept even tried to farm these recently? You have had 4 months to watch your data and make adjustments. It makes me think: Is this really intended? How could it, possibly?

I can hardly grasp it…

And one with a norn warior + T3 cultural armor please!

The game has been out for only 4 months. Can you define “a few months”?

@ evo.8640 and Sunreva.8714

Why don’t you two…you know…find a room or something?

Sir Aruspice.2763:

Kalagon.3120:

…This is now becoming known to the players and I think we can expect a massive downfall in this game like we say in SWTOR because of bad design and a refusal to change and apply fixes in time.

Seriously, where is the team who have made the beautifull game call GuildWars 1 ???
I can’t find anything that made ??the notoriety of this game.. a good PvP , a great Pve.
8 years playing Gw1 and never got bored…3 months of GW2 and i play only 1 hour and i bored

- 1500 play time
- 5 lvl 80
- all dungeons done, again and again

I have tried to hold on but now I can’t….

- An old fan of GW1 -

1 hour a day and you get bored huh.

“I have tried to hold on but now I can’t….” – those 1500 hours held you up pretty well.

not sure if srs

I like the idea of Daily objectives that would draw people out of Lions arch and into the open world. So, If more people were out there helping cap Temples and open arah for people to do their story modes that would be great.

Hello from an elitist farmer! I am here to take your gold and soul and torture you in the abyss eternally, until i have acquired all the gold of TYRIA. MUAHAHHAH

No, not really:) Welcome to the game and enjoy your stay.

Bartas.4908:

OK, so I had more free time today and nothing else to do than to grind/farm/wahtever.
I farmed Cursed Shore events for about 7 hours straight (plinx, penitent, shelter, temples, etc) and I must admit that I DID NOT FELT hit by DR for most of the time. I say most of the time because every 1 hour I was getting nothing but porous bones for like 20 mins. After that all went back to normal.
OL, normal is bit over the top but at least I am getting some greens and rares. Rares drop approximately 1 per hour (or 4 events) which is nice but not even close to the rate as it was before Lost Shores patch where I could expect at least 1 per event without any MF.

Now as I see economy, especially Charged Lodestones (because I need those), you could either try to farm them in the open with average 1 per 5-6h drop rate OR farm events and earn 4 to 7 gold in the same time. Both ways are extremely boring and cannot be considered any form of fun.

4 to 7 gold???Farming those events for 7 hours should have netted you at least 17-20g. Also, farming Charged lodestones should yield approximately 1 per hour based on my experience.

I’m not sure how you farm but whether i put MF gear on or not i make over 15G in 5 hours by farming those same events except plinx

Raine.1394:

Amra.6028:

The current procedure is subject to change soon, iirc. As legendaries aren’t stronger than any other item, they were always intended to be a long-term goal.

Well, Legendaries will supposedly track the current tier weapon power, so as vertical progression kicks in they will be stronger than today’s exotics. But, the good news is that they will be grind insurance for the weapon slot. That alone should make them truly legendary. Anything that can stop a gear grind in a slot is a goal to be pursued with vigor.

Good point but with Ascended gear becoming commonwealth in the future, the effort required to get an ascended weapon versus a legendary would be so little that its still more efficient to not get a legendary for years. If you go through the grind for a legendary you will know what i mean.

Yes to all.

As for your first suggestion. those Champions better drop some loot.

Good read OP.

Having farmed a huge portion of the gold required for a legendary by doing events repetitively (around 70% done) i can say that there is nothing legendary about the experience in getting a legendary.

Off course, you could take your time and play as you normally do and get it in a year or two but there is nothing unique one has to do in order to get a legendary. The fact alone that the gold i have to pay for a legendary is directly determined by power traders (very rare materials, precursors etc) strips away my will in to using real money in order to support the company, no matter how tempting it is.

In fewer words, had i been involved in a legendary adventure which would offer me a unique experience i would gladly spend good $, not to get the legendary but out of gratefulness for the experience that i have had.

The only thing worthwhile during my adventure was the 100% exploration, which itself only offered the 2 gifts and absolutely no other reward. Just the site seeing.

Um, sorry to ask this but who are you and why do you feel entitled to be sent a card?

I am currently over 70% into getting a legendary weapon. Soon enough, the only thing that will remain is the 100 Charged lodestones. (96 left for me)

They currently fluctuate between 3g80s and 4g, 3 times more expensive than the most expensive one which is the Destroyer Lodestone.

Their demand is very similar. Supply of Charged is half of Destroyer. So why is it that we need to have a temple to be able to farm them or have to go through one of the most obnoxious dungeons(CoE) to have a chance at getting them?

Is increasing the supply of charged lodestones really all that much to ask?

I am not asking for a free gift. At least let me farm them!

RMStrooper.7291:

I wanna start on getting my legendary, im not real good at playing the tp or flipping items so is there any good spot left to grind for gold, my job limitates me of only being able to play 2/3 hours a day and i was wondering whats the best place to farm at these days, ever since cursed shore has been nerfed ,i have no idea where to go,im also not a fan of lode stone farming since the drops depend to much on luck for me and i wanna be sure i make atleast 2/3g .

OP: at your current playtime set a realistic task of getting it done in 6 months. I base this from my experience where i play around 5-6 hours a day and expect to have it in around 2 and a half months but i made a killer spreadsheet and planned well my every step.

My advice: Farm at cursed shore(Shelter and penitent camp) avoid dungeons at all costs since you will have to depend too much on people which could hold you back (Unless you have a team of dedicated buddies)At this point i earn around 2-3g per hour there with the occasional exotic item. This will take a lot of patience and nerves of steel. The grinding will have to be strong within you

I attached my spreadsheet which i update daily/weekly to mark my progress. It isn’t perfect but i’m sure it will help you get started. Update as you will with the requirements of the legendary you are going for

Get it here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/146rp4iubl8zvvz/Book1.xlsx

introduce the Legendary transmutation stone Anet. Good money for you that gets the job done

Malediktus.9250:

Use the 1x recipe. Took me about 1 stack of ectos for 77.

171 obsidian shards gave me 77 clovers and my luck streak hit when i decided to do stacks of 10 (after doing 50 singles with bad luck)

As others said rng is rng

Erasculio.2914:

Ath.2531:

Farming is not grinding.

Farming is exactly the same as grinding. It’s as mindless, as easy and as pointless. They also catter to the same kind of person, who wants “time > skill” due to an inability of dealing with “skill > time”.

Who are you to decide whats fun for everyone?
You know who you remind me off? The type of person who is happy when everyone in the class did as bad as he did on a test. Exactly that.

Some of us focus on efficiency. Since you are not, you want everyone to go as slow as you do in therms of making gold in the game. That’s exactly what you seem like and that is exactly why you like the DR in place.

Updated the list with new questions

Keep them coming.

Ath

Erasculio.2914:

come x get x some.5648:

i played gw1 for like 6 years and it was amazing,i could spend alots of time farming UW,FoW,getting good drops and all those staff u can grind them but surley get a good money reward from it.

Have you ever seen the Guild Wars 2 Manifesto?

There, it’s stated:

“We don’t want players to grind”.

That doesn’t mean, “we want to avoid required grind”. It means, “we don’t want players to grind, period”. If all you bought GW2 for was to grind (or farm or exploit or whatever you want to call it)… Sorry, you just got DRed. This game is not for you. If it makes you feel any better, all other MMOs are grinding cesspools. GW2 is the exception.

Farming is not grinding. It’s about time some people got that straight.

Farming is something a lot of people like because its rewarding. Time spent over reward received is great.
Grinding is something all people hate because its the best way of getting a reward and yet very unrewarding.

with the effort needed to craft a legendary such as bolt, its price should be no less than around 3500g

Ari Kagura.9182:

I came up with another question and it regards Magic Find:

• Regardless of anyone’s opinion about bringing Magic Find items in a dungeon, I think anyone can agree that Magic Find only benefits the person who’s utilizing it and not their teammates. For example, I can bring a Guardian that has many defensive stats and abilities and they benefit my party by keeping us alive a little longer; while bringing a Warrior with offensive stats and abilities would benefit my party because stuff dies faster. However, bringing a Warrior or Guardian with Magic Find gear would only benefit those two and no one else in my party. If Magic Find is here to stay, then What is being done to Magic Find so the stat is more welcoming for group content?

I like this one! It has been the concern of several posters.
Also, thanks for bringing the thread back up. Will add this first thing in the morning

Ath

Just a note: If the internal systems which gather the data for Anet average all the loot collected by players including dungeons then obviously they will not notice a difference.

There will also not be a noticed difference in extended periods of farming. The loot is distributed well enough for me to say that its “ok”.

The real issue is short term returns in open world farming. Thats where the issue is. There used to be much more loot upfront than there is now but the overall spread is the same.

Thought: A change in the lambda on the Poisson distribution of loot can do that, if that distribution is used***

Anet: Check your data about loot drops in the first 30 min of consistent farming.

Thanks

Sky.7610:

Ath.2531:

Sky.7610:

Ath.2531:

Sky.7610:

So if i put up a artificial “demand” of 500,000 Lodestone at 1c each, the drop rate should increase?

Without any precautionary measures, yes. That, off-course is another issue which is already in place.

What kind of precautionary measure could one exactly impose on this, without causing a greater harm to another part of the economy?

Also, working under the assumption such a measure is possible,this would create dramatic harm to the economy because all item will have similar cost, regardless of demand or supply due to the 1:5 ratio imposed on it. This would eliminate the fundamental principle of a free-market where price is determine by supply and demand.

Precautionary measure: Each item entered in the TP comes with a standard predefined value which serves as a cut off point to separate “true” demand from dummy orders. For example: ordering a precursor for 1c would not count as demand at all. As this is just an example i cannot define what that predefined value will be. One may say: adjust that value similarly tho how dungeon token rewards are measured. A standard cost regardless of efficiency of acquisition. As “true” demand grows, so can the cut off value – to deal with gold inflation.

Just my point of view: The concept of “free-market” is what allowed every single recession to take place. Do we need to follow it?

What your saying is self contradiction. You want to eliminate supply and demand and yet want to determine “true” demand from supply and demand.

How does this work? A lodgestone and a random green piece of gear would cost the exact same because the supply and demand would be the same (1:5), so how can a cutoff be imposed? Whos to say a precursor isnt worth 1c?

Firstly, the 1:5 is used as an example
Secondly, each type of material would fall under a different category. Excuse me for the confusion but i most certainly did not put lodestones and green quality gear in the same category.
Also, would you care to explain how i eliminated supply and demand? I referred to normalization of supply which has nothing to do with demand.(not directly at least)

Having watched the outcry regarding legendaries being posted in the TP and how they have lost their value i would like to suggest for a unique title to be implemented which would imply that one has:

1) Handcrafted all the gifts in the forge one by one.
2) Created the legendary in the Mystic Forge.
3) Equipped the legendary they have created.

This Title could read: “Worthy Legendary Wielder” or something similar.

So, those who have earned the legendary with their hard earned gold and time can be distinguished from those who have bought a legendary from the TP.

What do you think?

Sky.7610:

Ath.2531:

Sky.7610:

So if i put up a artificial “demand” of 500,000 Lodestone at 1c each, the drop rate should increase?

Without any precautionary measures, yes. That, off-course is another issue which is already in place.

What kind of precautionary measure could one exactly impose on this, without causing a greater harm to another part of the economy?

Also, working under the assumption such a measure is possible,this would create dramatic harm to the economy because all item will have similar cost, regardless of demand or supply due to the 1:5 ratio imposed on it. This would eliminate the fundamental principle of a free-market where price is determine by supply and demand.

Precautionary measure: Each item entered in the TP comes with a standard predefined value which serves as a cut off point to separate “true” demand from dummy orders. For example: ordering a precursor for 1c would not count as demand at all. As this is just an example i cannot define what that predefined value will be. One may say: adjust that value similarly tho how dungeon token rewards are measured. A standard cost regardless of efficiency of acquisition. As “true” demand grows, so can the cut off value – to deal with gold inflation.

Just my point of view: The concept of “free-market” is what allowed every single recession to take place. Do we need to follow it?

Dear John Smith

It cannot be hidden that you are involved with the economy in gw2 :P.

As the markets have shifted i was wondering if you would have any insight on where the economy for rare materials is moving in the game, especially in the market of Lodestones. Let us know of any updates

Sky.7610:

So if i put up a artificial “demand” of 500,000 Lodestone at 1c each, the drop rate should increase?

Without any precautionary measures, yes. That, off-course is another issue which is already in place.

Surbrus.6942:

Yes, the price of Charged Lodestones are greatly out of the ordinary when compared to other Lodestones. However is there really a problem here?

Yes this lodestone has a much higher demand than the supply. But is that really an issue? People looking for Charged Lodestone derived products can choose to go for that expensive resource, or they can change their goals and choose a substitute in products that use different, more affordable Lodestones.

The resources in this game may be “unlimited”, but that does not mean that there is no scarcity. Scarcity is a very basic economic concept, and it is well and alive in this game and in the drop rates.

Lets make a real world comparison to diamonds. Diamonds are both useful in industrial processes as well as for vanity. DeBeers holds a lot of control over the diamond market, and their artificial restrictions on diamonds, in addition to Diamonds being heavily demanded for both fashion and industry, means that they are largely unfeasible to use for industrial purposes. Gold is in a similar situation, as it has great industrial uses, but the inflated price means that those in industry must use substitutes.

Shifting the demand to substitutes both reduces the demand for the more scarce resource, as well as utilizing more of the less scarce resource.

Since we area talking fashion, as that is the only reason why we use Lodestones, scarcity is part of the prestige. People don’t wear gold and diamond jewellery for the looks, they wear it for the prestige. If they were only interested in the looks they would just use a cheaper lookalike. Intervening in the market to normalize prices of Lodestones would greatly impact the prestige value of those items that use Charged Lodestones.

Can you provide arguments that explain why the prices should be normalized?

Bloodstealer.5978

stop liking what I don’t like [paraphrased]

No one is forcing you to post in this thread. Just because you don’t like math and economic discussion doesn’t mean that it isn’t good discussion.

I will agree to a certain extent but let me ask you this:

Has the production of diamonds been a constant throughout the beginning of time?

Also, do consider that by observing the full lifespan of the supply of lodestones in particular our current supply for a certain type has decreased dramatically. This seems as an artificial scarcity to me, one that i would like to be minimalized during the course of time

lisamee.2408:

Can you sum this up in one sentence?

In one sentence i am suggesting a formula to normalize the drop rate of each type of lodestone(or other category of products) based on the average ratios of supply and demand of all lodestones

Bloodstealer.5978:

Sorry to say it but.. I think your taking a collection of pixels on your screen way to serious… if your having to place so much importance on a material drop rate for what is nothing more than a game, then maybe open the curtains, open the window and smell some fresh air and look upon the new day once in a while.

Oh! But i wrote this at work dear sir. I can assure you that the air is quite fresh out here!

And by the way, Judging from your posting history maybe you should consider taking your own advice.

Specifically you recently wrote: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/members/Bloodstealer-5978/showposts

“I would be more inclined to think its actually AN that has the Bots farming the mats and selling the items – nothing better than to be able to manipulate the price points in game so that players at both end of the spectrum can be herded in to buying Gems / Gold for real money from the TP.”

That doesn’t look very good on your resume.

You were saying?

Thats right. Now go in peace and let whoever likes to discuss this in a mature manner do so.

Let me help you answer your question.
Do an /Age in your game. Take that value and divide it over the amount of money you have spent buying the game + Gems you may have purchased.

That is the value of your purchase.

I am writing this post in hopes of providing some insight on the love-hate relationship between drop-acquired items and the Tradepost. As many of us know, real life markets work with the supply/demand paradigm and several trading techniques which aim in maximizing profit for both sides of the table.

The difference between a game such as guild wars and real life is that resources in this game are unlimited. Thus the magical numbers of drop rate percentages come into the formula to provide a sense of stability into the market.

Now, lets ask some questions:

Does there exist a steady state between the drop rate, the efficiency of its production and its trading value? Also, to which extent does its market manipulation allowed to exceed its production?

Some examples – The Lodestone Market as of now:
Source: http://www.gw2spidy.com/search/lodestone?recipes=0
Name Min Sale Offer Max Buy Offer Sale Avail Offer Avail
Charged 4 g 50 c 3 g 65 s 50 c 161 3690
Corrupted 88 s 90 c 85 s 1850 2466
Crystal 74 s 97 c 70 s 61 c 617 938
Destroyer 1 g 37 s 90 c 1 g 17 s 619 2654
Glacial 42 s 34 s 60 c 1370 1533
Molten 83 s 99 c 82 s 49 c 435 2866
Onyx 2 g 40 s 90 c 2 g 33 s 11 c 1264 2878

Supply-Demand Ratios:
Charged 1: 22.9
Corrupted 1:1.33
Crystal 1:1.52
Destroyer 1:4.29
Glacial 1:1.12
Molten 1:6.59
Onyx 1:2.28

Observation: An outlier can be clearly observed here. It is no wonder why Charged Lodestones are so expensive since they are almost 23 times more demanded than they are supplied. The question is, why are they so under-supplied? The answer is in my belief that this is due to the fact that there is a very low constant drop rate for this item. Since the supply of this item is so limited, price super-inflation is expected.

My proposal is to adjust the drop rate percentage for over-demanded items based on their supply-demand ratio in order to normalize them to reach an “equilibrium”. This equilibrium can be defined by the average demand of all products of the same rarity or type.

In the case of Lodestones: Avg(demand) per 1 point of supply = (22.9+1.33+1.52+4.29+1.12+6.59+2.28)/7 = 5.72
Thus, the desired Supply-Demand Ratio should not exceed 1 :5.72

This means that drop rates have to be increased for Charged, Molten, Onyx Lodestones and decreased for the rest of them to match the 1:5.72 ratio.

This is just an example of how the market can remain self sustainable, affordable and manipulation-resistant and the ratio itself can adjust with the income of new gold into the system.

All comments on this mere idea are welcome

Read Critically and judge constructively

Paul.4081:

I’d wait for that porous bone event chest even if I hadn’t been to Orr. Legendary Porous Bone-er Pre-Cursor. You jelly (marrow)?

u dirty

tigirius.9014:

I don’t have the technical means to do this or I would. I would like to ask those who have the technical means and the talent who suffer from the DR effect, to make videos of the typical open world run in Orr, in the dragon events and submit your video to these forums showing how a series of typical days of farming goes for you.

The only things I would ask is that you must be a farmer, you must play in open world for most of the footage and you must be one of the ones affected by the DR bug or open world loot bug.

It would be very helpful if you could cross compare a typical run from Fotm dungeon to show how starkly different the drops are in that dungeon. The footage typically can be sped up for the purposes of getting to the end of a farming session to show the results of the drops in each case.

I and many like me would be very grateful as this would be plenty of proof showing the contrast and the serious problems faced with open world drops.

It would take an enormous amount of hard drive space to make videos which will contain a sample size to show tangible data.

Unless someone wants to take a thousand hours of video and make spreadsheets with data this is not quite possible.

One job is enough, and that i get paid for.

What if all the porous bones you vendored away were worth 1g tomorrow and you just missed your chance to be a millionaire?

I was going to write a rather lengthy report but please do answer this:

What happened with that post about Champions almost guaranteed to drop loot?

Please, be sensitive with your answer. There is a fine line between honesty and business

All questions up to date in the attachment. Keep them coming

I don’t think you should link a video, especially from an external website such as youtube.
Report him with an in game screenshot by using the reporting tool and add a description in the report.

Keep in mind that bots are banned in waves, which is good in many, many reasons. Anet likely knows about that bot and are planning to take action when its appropriate.

Updated current question selection with an attachment in the main post. Will continue to add as we go

Keep them Coming folks! i like what i see here

Kandrick.8054:

To be honest a legendary has always said to me that this person either has more real life money than sense, no life or is an exploiter.

Sorry to the odd exception but to me it’s a massive neon sign saying avoid this player at all costs (just like people in PVE with commander icons displaying). I would not group up with someone with a legendary weapon (or a visible commander icon in PvE).

Your post is like a massive neon sign of the word envy with firey animations.

Get over yourself man. You’re doing them a favor for not grouping with them

Edit: judging from seeing your other posts you seem to be bitter because of the loot nerf. Instead of finding ways of still making gold you choose to whine on the forums instead. let me tell you what: I still make up to 10g in around 3 hours of play by pure farming.

Congratulations. We, of the yet to have succeeded salute you.

Mythbuster challenge: Guild wars 2 forums can cause Blindness – Will they be up to the challenge?