No matter how big my house is… if I want to buy a pool, it costs the same!
A pool for a small family will cost less than a pool for 500 people. Size does matter.
You missed his point totally. Quite a number of people already explained it a lot of times, too many times but some people simply refuse to see it because it doesn’t benefit them one single bit.
The main point is this. Small guilds want EVERYTHING at REDUCED cost (Not all small guilds but most small guilds that complained) while other bigger guilds are to pay the original cost. All those analogy are trying to point out that a house of the same size do not cost anything less for anyone regardless how big their family is. However, some advocates are trying so hard to twist the analogy that a family can build and slowly upgrade the house but they never tell you that eventually it will still cost the same to build a house of the same size because they wants you think that it will cost lesser to build a house of the same size #advocatelogic. Too many half-truth, just like politician.
No it is you that has missed the whole point..
Yes the overall cost is the same, no one has argued that point one bit.. but its significantly higher requirements per player across varying sizes of guild because there are no tiers or scale within guild hall requirements.. .. Do the maths its pretty darn straight forward even my 8 yr old gets it.
There is simply no balance or weighting to how guilds fund their specific halls.. not every guild wants to or needs to a guild suitable for 500 players it wants a guild hall fit for purpose.. but we don’t have that on offer, we simply have a mansion with a vast chasm of empty space and no reasonable way of filling in in this natural lifetime.
Without having the availability of choice to guild halls based on guild size requirements, then the one size fits all makes it absurdly expensive for each player and takes extensively longer to get anywhere in comparison to what a large guild can achieve in a mere smidge of the time and cost.. that is the issue.. not the hall itself.
Bottom line is ANET are either clueless in their approach to anything MMO related to such things or they did this with absolutely no intention around Guild Halls other than to rip players off by taking away achievements they had already earned and forced them into long gated grinds to just get back to here they were, all in order to push a gem sale conversion.. personally I think all of the above.
My small guild expected to have to work hard for a guild hall, but then we also read between the lines of absent information that ANET kept totally out of the pre-HoT hype and have already done much of the work required. We saw this rip off coming a mile away.. but that said it does not make what they have done anyway fair for all unless your happy being the next number in a faceless 500 guild.
Personally I hope this comes back to bite them in the backside because it deserving of it imo.
Well, hate to be that guy but I think small guilds should have it hard… big guilds should grow fast and be powerful, small ones shouldn’t .. and should be hard to unlock high tier options… that’s what a real world guild system would look like.
Lol… how clueless can you get.
Of course that’s not how it works in the real world
You buy a small house for a small family.. its less materials to build, less time to build, less cost to buy.. then you expand it as your family grows or you move up to the next tier… unless of course your one of the <1% that just straight up go buy a castle for your first property with all upgrades and then hope to fill it asap by advertising for 500 lodgers…. at least try to engage brain before talking rubbish.
No matter how big my house is… if I want to buy a pool, it costs the same!
Lols this poster what are you smoking are you for real or just trying to troll for effect…
Either way I would give up before you make yourself look even more idiotic.. …sorry but sometimes being cruel to be kind can help you overcome your failings!I don’t see the constructiveness of your comment, most people could understand what I was talking about, you seem to be the only one with a problem
Really.. you must be reading a different thread to me cos what you said made no sense… your pool analogy is a complete non starter because you don’t understand what is required in order to get your pool… size does matter, remember that!
Enuff said!
No matter how big my house is… if I want to buy a pool, it costs the same!
A pool for a small family will cost less than a pool for 500 people. Size does matter.
What do you mean? Are you advocating for making large guilds pay more? I can’t get behind that concept any more than I can making it impossible for small guilds to progress at all. Both are unfair.
No.. I think he has it spot on… if you want a large pool to suit 500 players then that has the same weighted cost as it would cost for a pool to accommodate 50 people.
As there are 10 times the number of people supplying the materials and ten times the number of players putting towards the cost then absolutely the overall should be that a large guild should have to put in the same time, cost and effort as a small guild does per player.
ANET couldn’t be bothered in providing tiers to the guild hall size it was a one size fits all no matter what.
So why should a faceless 500 be able to claim, upgrade and decorate the largest hall so absurdly quicker than a small guild of 10.. small guilds di not ask for such a large hall and neither did they ask for all their previous efforts to now be negated and re-gated behind paywalls, something that is nothing more than a mere twitch to replace for much larger guilds, but could easily take a small guild months or worse to get back to where they were.
The guild Hall function absolutely should be tied to the sizing of your guild and the costs/effort weighted accordingly… what we have been handed is nothing short of a money sink that punishes a large portion of the player base whilst those in a faceless 500 can sit back after 15minutes farming their 2-5 carrots each and few potatoes.. while the rest take weeks to get them.
No one here is saying that anyone should have it easy .. but at the same time, many of us are saying it needs to be a lot fairer and more inclusive as a whole community otherwise many are going to just not bother and leave.. look at WvW a wasteland now not a borderland and the new maps are already absent of players the majority of the time.
No sorry all this just smells of desperation to coin in as fast as they can for as long as they can because imo they are unable to create decent content that keeps players wanting to log back in to play except to grind and zerg – guild halls was just the perfect recipe in which to fastrack that hope to coin in, but I am hoping it fails hard because ANET don’t deserve a loyal community after all this crap.
(edited by Bloodstealer.5978)
Well, hate to be that guy but I think small guilds should have it hard… big guilds should grow fast and be powerful, small ones shouldn’t .. and should be hard to unlock high tier options… that’s what a real world guild system would look like.
Lol… how clueless can you get.
Of course that’s not how it works in the real world
You buy a small house for a small family.. its less materials to build, less time to build, less cost to buy.. then you expand it as your family grows or you move up to the next tier… unless of course your one of the <1% that just straight up go buy a castle for your first property with all upgrades and then hope to fill it asap by advertising for 500 lodgers…. at least try to engage brain before talking rubbish.
No matter how big my house is… if I want to buy a pool, it costs the same!
Lols this poster what are you smoking are you for real or just trying to troll for effect…
Either way I would give up before you make yourself look even more idiotic.. …sorry but sometimes being cruel to be kind can help you overcome your failings!
Welcome to Fail Wars… it took great creative intelligence to come up with this rewarding way of gameplay… I think ANET deserves a payrise for bringing the community together in total harmony once more…..oh wait!
Economy Fail: price to high, gold too rare
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Bloodstealer.5978
ANET did this intentionally.
They needed to do it from their business model perspective.
Why?
Too much gold was being held by players on the sidelines and those amounts where growing based on what the dungeons, Fractals, and Bosses where dishing out.
This also impacted negatively the amount of Jewels bought by gold rather than using actual cash currency.
Remember that ANET makes 90% of their money off the TP. Recirculating gold earned in the game into jewels by players gives them Zero Income.
I agree with most that this strategy has failed and has only driven more players AWAY from the game.
However, as with most companies, trying to convince them that their decision was wrong and that they should institute a correction is a pipe dream.
These types of companies would rather sink with the ship than admit failure.
Dungeons maybe.. but the real issue was their allowance of the failtrain farming and worst of all the silverwastes farm.. those two areas were yielding stupidly unhealthy amounts of easy gold, but they ignored all the shouts out because it was their only solution to keeping players in game over the last 12 months during the great content depression… now they want to claw it all back by hitting everyone rather than those exploiting mechanics like they were much sooner.
Hitting dungeons hard was not necessarily a good idea imo and I don’t even run them all that often to see the benefits, but all it’s done is discouraged players from coming back to play content they liked to run., who will then likely just leave all together.
ANET has focused in hard on gems to gold conversions .. hence their little gem of a post prior to HoT going live about suddenly stepping up their vigilance around gold sellers. If the issue was too much ingame gold was sitting around, why continue having the gem to gold conversion at all and instead just have gems sales for store fluff??
No ANET want wealth in the game but only by firstly starving players by cutting off the sources to generate it so they can hopefully become more inclined to spend real coin instead to get it… whether in fact they will or simply move on only time will tell.
Well, hate to be that guy but I think small guilds should have it hard… big guilds should grow fast and be powerful, small ones shouldn’t .. and should be hard to unlock high tier options… that’s what a real world guild system would look like.
Lol… how clueless can you get.
Of course that’s not how it works in the real world
You buy a small house for a small family.. its less materials to build, less time to build, less cost to buy.. then you expand it as your family grows or you move up to the next tier… unless of course your one of the <1% that just straight up go buy a castle for your first property with all upgrades and then hope to fill it asap by advertising for 500 lodgers…. at least try to engage brain before talking rubbish.
Theres plenty in Eotm/WvW and some from JP chests – maybe park the chars you dont use much at an easy JP chest to farm it each day.
That’s the problem i’m trying to address. We should be able to obtain them while playing naturally. Just like Dragonite and Bloodstone already are
You can .. every map has approx 3-5 small chests scattered around which you can loot plus jump puzzle chests, plus some from event rewards, bandit chests, WvW and then EotM has always been a fast way to accumulate them….
A guildy of mine was a couple of hundred short for his last few Ascended pieces the other night so we just ran a some chests for an hour.. and it was done without having to do anything other than play normally.
As for SkyShroud now resorting to “its not fair to scale”… seriously its the fairest way any MMO provides content and features to all… the same way a 100 man zerg should have an event scaled up in order to succeed but scaled down when 10players take on the same thing.. doesn’t mean its easier for any of the groups.. its about striking a balance between time, effort and costs and as it stands, there is no such balance its completely off the scale.
How exactly would that scaling work in the game? Got any specific idea aside from “scale is awesome”?
And to be more specific, the first upgrade you must finish for the Guild Hall is called Tavern Restoration 1 which requires the following:
250 Elder Wood Plank
250 Mithril Ingot
50 Bottle of Elonian Wine
10 Empty Keg
50 Glass Mug
20 Obsidian Shard
25 Bolt of Silk
100 Cured Thick Leather Square
10 Bolt of Gossamer
10 Cured Hardened Leather Square
and 100 FavorGo ahead and “scale it”
I have explained how it works.. its been common within guild functionality across many MMO’s for donkey’s.. read through threads before jumping in with guessworks and lack of discussion.
And yes.. you can scale Tav 1.. its based on the required efforts per player within guild tiers.. in order to keep it fair and inclusive for all those values and costs should be apportioned a lot more fairly based on your guild tier.. in doing so Guilds are able to make a choice on what size of hall and what amount of functionality they strive for within their permitted availability.. but as usual ANET took the route to least amount of development with the least amount of efforts in order to maximise their gem sale potential… ooh so very typical F2P.
250 mithril, 250 elder wood etc is nothing to 300-500 guild size.. but to 10 players its still a heck a lot of time spent farming trees instead of playing the content across the game.. 50 bottles of wine is nothing for a 300-500 guild to pay for… for 10 players that’s a shed load more outlay each…. and this is merely Tav 1.
So if you want to keep those values inline for all.. the larger guilds should be looking to outlay more per player that has been put in place, in order to fund a guild hall large enough to accommodate that size and the functionality it offers.
This is not rocket science, its not a new concept.. after all the guild grew based on the leaders desire to be large and the strategy/organisation put into making it large… but those decisions should now be made to be considered more carefully because there should be more responsibility placed on the guild when looking at what they can afford, how long it will take and who is going to do it.
I will use the house buyer analogy again, cos you obviously failed to read through the thread.
A young couple looking for their first home have a choice of buying premade small 2bed, 3bed, 4bed or mansion or castle – logic suggests they start small and upscale as their family size and function requirements.
Lets not even consider the build time if we were to take that into a house builder analogy.. time, cost and effort should be made fair across the game but like so many other poorly thought through features ANET simply couldn’t be bothered because the gold sink and gem sales were higher priority.. personally I hope this crap come back to bite them in the backside, cos to me its a pretty desperate and short-sighted approach.
So a big guild has to pay more for exactly the same just because they are bigger. That’s seems extremely unfair.
Why? It would supply the same options as a smaller guild, that’s true, but it would supply them to a larger number of players. To me it seems normal that it would cost more.
If you cook a dinner for 50 people, it requires greater quantities of ingredients than one made for 5 people – even if the dinner in question is exactly the same. The current HoT guild hall system seems to think however, that a dinner for anything less than 500 people just won’t do for any of those groups. Which, when you think about it, is ridiculous.You are right there, cooking dinner to 50 people cost more than to 5 and you might even need a lager table. However you can prepare it in the same kitchen. But the dinner part is already in place.
For example, you can now unlock a mini vendor (that would be the kitchen in the example). That however does not give out free mini’s (mini’s would be the food) to everybody, it only gives the ability to get them (and this is true for most guild-hall unlocks). Members still have to buy those mini’s and so 50 members all buying the mini’s do in fact spend more than 5.
Of course you could focus on the size of the table, and it might have been ideal if there was also a smaller hall available where everything would be smaller (but that would also mean the vendor would have less mini’s available.. not sure if you would want that) and also cost less. But that would mean much more development-time and people would likely be complaining that their mini vendor had less mini’s available as that of big guilds.
No, what you need to focus on is that 5 person dinner still has to prepare enough food and a table big enough to suit 500 people, but still only have 5 people prepare it and eat it.
But you don’t. Lets make the Warroom the kitchen of the company that makes the food for it’s employee’s.
You don’t have to upgrade the Warroom completely, you can also go for only completing the first tier. Then you have less food, ens less variation in food that you can buy at the restaurant. (Just as you see that with smaller vs bigger companies).
You then also have to pay less to get this smaller version of the Warroom / prepare less food.
how to completely miss the point.. good job.
The simple fact is.. there is no choice in what you can make… no matter what tier you are upgrading, you are upgrading it based on the same oversize…. If ANET had put a n ounce of thought into this process instead of thinking “money sink” then they would of created choices but they didn’t they preferred the one size fits all and screw those that don’t want to become a number in a faceless guild.
The fact you might only be able to go to Warroom 1 and not all the way is irrelevant because to make WR1 you still have the same amount of players trying to build something that requires a ridiculous amount of extra time and effort per player and a heck of a lot more individual cost when compared to a much larger guild.
And please don’t go down the route that poster a few lines back came up with about how it’s so hard for a large guild because it has fewer contributors.. cos that rubbish only tends to highlight.. “recruit anyone and everyone”, poor guild organisation and above all very bad guild leadership.
As for SkyShroud now resorting to “its not fair to scale”… seriously its the fairest way any MMO provides content and features to all… the same way a 100 man zerg should have an event scaled up in order to succeed but scaled down when 10players take on the same thing.. doesn’t mean its easier for any of the groups.. its about striking a balance between time, effort and costs and as it stands, there is no such balance its completely off the scale.
No point nerfing something that has already been nerfed several times already now.
What they will probably do is place a requirement to fail a variety of the events in order to make extra chests spawn.. cos ANET enjoy putting content into the game that splits maps into toxic farm and fun wars these days.
I don’t really think the issues with Guild Halls is predominantly around having to work hard and organised in order to get the hall and all its upgrades.
I do however think a lot of the issues that have been raised to date stem from the absurdly disproportionate amount of costs/effort required by varying guilds sizes in order to achieve anything and within some players lifetime.
Add to that lets not forget ANET laid the previous system out and guilds worked to unlock various items and attainments in order for it to utilise them within the various game modes – but these have been taken away and locked behind forced grind walls in order to unlock them again – whilst at the same time be faced with this totally wacko imbalance in cost/effort just to get back to where they were prior to HoT, let alone going onwards.
No its not a contradiction you simply don’t understand what was being said, because you seem reluctant to look past your own nose, but I am not all that surprised….
It is contradictive.
You said it yourself in this post that small guild is easier to organise and that imply large guild is harder to organise. Keywords here are “easier” and “organise”.
Then, you said less organisation, what are you suggesting here with this “less organisation” and the “easier to organise”.
For a small guild to go out and achieve ooh lets say tavern resto 1.. it requires the guild to be organised and dedicated to achieving that as every player would need to play a far greater part within the process when comparing to say the 300 – 500 others running the same activities within your large guild how much organisation do you think it requires knowing that there would be such low amount of effort per player in comparison and a large surplus on the backend of the activity within the guild as a whole..
Whilst on the face of it having much larger numbers within the guild might appear to be difficult to manage, reality of it is it requires much less in the way of organisation in order to achieve the same goals as a small guild.
As a guild leader who has managed large raid focused guilds and small/medium niche/fun guilds this is sooo very obvious .. maybe to you its not, but I guess everyone manages and organises their own way.
That said, I never said that it was easy for any size of guild to manage and organise anything, but because a small guild obviously has less numbers it is easier to micro manage it when organising guild activities, but at the same time the variables within the guild goals, achievements and values have the tendency to require less organisation in large guilds due to the surplus within it.
So its easier to set out and organise the activity of a smaller guild due to numbers for sure, but it then leads to a greater amount of organisation within the activity to manage each member’s role and involvement as it plays a much larger part in the outcome of any organised activity… not so much for a larger guild imo.
EDIT .. granted maybe my original post needed more elaboration to the points being made.
(edited by Bloodstealer.5978)
Dude, that some really arrogant words you have there. If you think that it is THAT easy to build a large guild and then maintain it to be large, then do it and show it to me, only then you have the rights to say those words but other than that, that is really arrogant of you.
Oh get over yourself. I’ve led big guilds in MMO’s through their raiding content. I know exactly what it’s like to organize people and am more qualified than 99% of the people here to talk about the huge pile of do-nothings that just come in to get the good stuff (it’s why DKP exists), but make no real contribution. I have perspective, tyvm. I prefer a meritocracy.
I came to GW2 because it was a game wherein I wouldn’t HAVE to lead or even be in a big guild. The entire point of this thread, since you clearly didn’t read through it, not that I blame you… it’s a lot of words) is that they’ve changed the very focus of their game and are now forcing people to join Big guilds to get access to skins and buffs, etc…
I personally know several people who joined big guilds and have donated nothing. nada. cero. zip. Whereas I stand to donate pretty much everything… and we’ll both have the same access, only I’ll have it after my kids go off to college… maybe. It would be so much easier for me to organize any level of guild – 10-50-500 – than to do it all myself or with a little help from a few people who have demanding jobs. I’m actually very good at guild leading. But that’s not why I play guild wars – I play this game to get away from all that work. Oh man it is WORK… a ton of WORK… there is very little fun in it. The new changes have taken away the primary reason this game is my mainstay (the one I don’t quit, though… it’s more likely now).
And we now get to grind for a veritable kittenton of mats for upgrades we already had, but that were taken away and put behind a huge mat wall. Yay. Their execution of the guild hall leaves much to be desired. Again… anyone who’s not a primary earner would not understand this at all. This thread is for primary earners… not for people who have it easy.
How big of a guild and how big of a raid have you led? I have led raids or should I say wars that consist of at least 200 players, way bigger than any of gw2 maps can handle. Have you?
DKP? I googled it and it something related to WOW, I’ve never played WOW even though I have played games for near 20 years, is funny because I have played so many other games but just not WOW. I have played a lot of grindy MMOs, underrated games and etc. The gamers circle I’m in simply describe WOW as a game that bought in a lot of kids into the gaming world.
It is true, there’s always leechers in guilds but that doesn’t mean small guilds do not have leechers. The proportion of the leechers never change in small or big guilds. Small guild has less leechers and big guild has more leechers, is just simple as that, it doesn’t make small guild any better than big guilds. Likewise, the number of contributors too is proportional to the guild size. Actually, I do not know what is your point of that argument.
From all your other comments
- You want the ownership of the guild
- You want it to be easily upgradableYou also complained your upgrades were taken away. They weren’t, what you had are already unlocked or converted. You do not have spend thousands of mats to research them again, the brand new guild have to do that to get them. Of course, it is another story to produce them. If you meant you had to spend more to produce them then yes, indeed, you can complain about that because is true.
Again, I stand by my point, you have no idea how to run a large guild.
lol
all discussions that involved comparing large and small guilds usually don’t end up cosntructive. that is because the comments are usually bias, unrealistic or unfair.
i have already mentioned it in the many guild hall threads that whoever has a larger resources will always upgrade it faster and easier, that will never change because that is how things are. so again, any arguments about small and large guilds are totally pointless, absolutely pointless.
again, i mentioned in one of those many guild hall threads. if anyone of you truly know how to fight for your rights, you will know the best approach is a suggestion or discussion or choice of words that are capable to gain supports from many others but obviously in this thread, no one is gaining much supports from one another. so yea, it is really pointless.
Edit:
Big guild people have practically no responsibility at all – they carry sooo little weight on their shoulders…
Dude, that some really arrogant words you have there. If you think that it is THAT easy to build a large guild and then maintain it to be large, then do it and show it to me, only then you have the rights to say those words but other than that, that is really arrogant of you.
No.. I think he hit the nail on the head personally.
If you can’t organise a tenth of that faceless 500 to donate enough to upgrade a guild hall in a tenth of the time a 5 man guild can, then well … maybe it’s time to step aside and get someone to take the lead cos your failing hard.
Small guilds can be easier to organise, but large guilds need a lot less organisation and effort per player to achieve the same goals in a fraction of the time.
Take off the blinkers and open those eyes, then maybe you will get a little perspective.Is you again, Mr advocate. Since you mentioned 1/10 of the guild and TS mentioned meritocracy, I took the liberty to look at the donor list which we recorded all the donors and their contributions. It took quite sometime to count the contributors since we didn’t have it on spreadsheet but rather a simple word-like format, we easily have more than 1/10, thanks for your concern.
BTW, your statement about small guilds easier to organise and then big guilds lot less organisation….I don’t understand, it seems quite contradictive.
No its not a contradiction you simply don’t understand what was being said, because you seem reluctant to look past your own nose, but I am not all that surprised….
yeah, the instanced maps with a ~150 player cap does create an illusion of not so many people playing. Also that might count also the asian region(China) which is separate from NA and EU and probs has atleast as many players.
The number of times I’m plagued with “this map is closing” crap every day I don’t think it’s an illusion.
I don’t think you understand how the mega-server works. Basically as more and more people log into a specific map, more and more copies of that map are created. In order for all those maps to have emptied out, they have to have been created in the first place.
So you’re on a map, say something like Brisban Wildands, and some guilds are doing missions. As soon as they finish their bounty on that map, they leave en masse. That means there are far fewer people on that map. But the map might not have existed before that guild went there.
You dont’ see them, maybe because they’re on the other side of the map, but it doesn’t mean they weren’t there.
One guy in my guild told me this week that he was in an empty zone in VB. That no one else was in the whole zone.
So I popped a tag at a champ and in a very very short amount of time, there were 20 people there. The zone wasn’t empty. It was perceived as empty.
Now there wasn’t just one champ on this map. It was nighttime and five champs were all up.
If there were 20 people at each of those, that’s 100 people on the map. We didn’t see 100 people though, only the people who were on my tag.
To add to that, there were probably also people flax farming, or just trying to get hero points, or just trying to unlock waypoints that weren’t at any of the boss locations.
Maps can’t close if there aren’t enough people to create them in the first place.
Yes maps absolutely can close when there are less players than the threshold requires.. that’s why you get a timer before auto map close.
However what is happening now is that maps are just randomly closing without warning, even full maps busy completing meta’s suddenly get squashed without rhyme or reason.. so yes the megaserver trash is broken and is a nothing more than a way to disguise dwindling populations in the first place.. just a different take on forced server merging, which is what many other MMO’s have had to do at some point in the course of their life.
Dwindling numbers are nothing new to any MMO, especially one like GW2 that runs a non sub model – how they accurately measure their population, I guess we will never really know, especially as every player can hold a bucket load ofF2P accounts now on the back of their main, but core game maps and now even newer maps are showing signs of a population downturn to me… but that of course doesn’t necessarily means the game is failing it might merely be settling back down to that plateau all MMO’s reach at some point after a game goes live or has a major update/expac.
To me its not that the population might be dwindling, its that new maps and features are already suffering so soon after an expansion landed and then additionally impacted by a very poor megaserver system.
(edited by Bloodstealer.5978)
@Nezroy… your talking rubbish ..
Of course guilds of all sizes pool resources, especially for scribing because it is so expensive and it opens up guild wide buffs… If they are not then the guild really is just a list people with numbers on their back and poorly recruited/managed.
Do the maths its disgustingly more expensive for a small guild to even level a scribe let alone to actually utilise it…. that’s if they get that far in the first place.
New players/new guilds are going to struggle even more unless they force themselves to recruit all the any bodies and everybody’s through endless mapchat spamming to become the next faceless 500 out there.
You would have to be seriously stupid not to have the guild pool it , really foolish.
did they nerf this thing?!?! I used to get from 6 to 10 out of 3 strikes, now I get……. 3. yep, 1 each strike. barely pays to have the darn thing.
Pretty sure the home node has always given either 1 or 5 Quartz or 1 Charged Quartz if your lucky.
The normal drop is 3 quartz
lol
all discussions that involved comparing large and small guilds usually don’t end up cosntructive. that is because the comments are usually bias, unrealistic or unfair.
i have already mentioned it in the many guild hall threads that whoever has a larger resources will always upgrade it faster and easier, that will never change because that is how things are. so again, any arguments about small and large guilds are totally pointless, absolutely pointless.
again, i mentioned in one of those many guild hall threads. if anyone of you truly know how to fight for your rights, you will know the best approach is a suggestion or discussion or choice of words that are capable to gain supports from many others but obviously in this thread, no one is gaining much supports from one another. so yea, it is really pointless.
Edit:
Big guild people have practically no responsibility at all – they carry sooo little weight on their shoulders…
Dude, that some really arrogant words you have there. If you think that it is THAT easy to build a large guild and then maintain it to be large, then do it and show it to me, only then you have the rights to say those words but other than that, that is really arrogant of you.
No.. I think he hit the nail on the head personally.
If you can’t organise a tenth of that faceless 500 to donate enough to upgrade a guild hall in a tenth of the time a 5 man guild can, then well … maybe it’s time to step aside and get someone to take the lead cos your failing hard.
Small guilds can be easier to organise, but large guilds need a lot less organisation and effort per player to achieve the same goals in a fraction of the time.
Take off the blinkers and open those eyes, then maybe you will get a little perspective.
So a big guild has to pay more for exactly the same just because they are bigger. That’s seems extremely unfair.
Why? It would supply the same options as a smaller guild, that’s true, but it would supply them to a larger number of players. To me it seems normal that it would cost more.
If you cook a dinner for 50 people, it requires greater quantities of ingredients than one made for 5 people – even if the dinner in question is exactly the same. The current HoT guild hall system seems to think however, that a dinner for anything less than 500 people just won’t do for any of those groups. Which, when you think about it, is ridiculous.You are right there, cooking dinner to 50 people cost more than to 5 and you might even need a lager table. However you can prepare it in the same kitchen. But the dinner part is already in place.
For example, you can now unlock a mini vendor (that would be the kitchen in the example). That however does not give out free mini’s (mini’s would be the food) to everybody, it only gives the ability to get them (and this is true for most guild-hall unlocks). Members still have to buy those mini’s and so 50 members all buying the mini’s do in fact spend more than 5.
Of course you could focus on the size of the table, and it might have been ideal if there was also a smaller hall available where everything would be smaller (but that would also mean the vendor would have less mini’s available.. not sure if you would want that) and also cost less. But that would mean much more development-time and people would likely be complaining that their mini vendor had less mini’s available as that of big guilds.
No, what you need to focus on is that 5 person dinner still has to prepare enough food and a table big enough to suit 500 people, but still only have 5 people prepare it and eat it.
I always see the “make the Guild Hall Upgrades scale with the number of members the guild has” FIX. What can stop me from kicking all my guild members,get the mats i need from them,get the upgrade and then invite them again…?!
It might be hard for small guilds to do stuff…but as many people said if you create a guild and you are 2-3 members…let’s be honest,how can you expect to do any content with that guild?
I am a guild leader since 14 november 2013 we had many members now we don’t …let’s say 10-15 daily online members,that is a small guild,yet we don’t complain about the upgrades and we work hard to get our amazing guild hall in a nice shape.
We got all the buildings (tents for now) available and many of the upgrades.
And we are working constantly on it.They could base it on the max guild roster size. You know the guy you gotta pay to increase your guild member cap? That. If your are a first level guild with the lowest member cap your upgrades are cheaper. The higher your member cap the more you pay. Anet can reset all guilds member caps to the lowest possible for their guild and refund the cost to the guild leader as a one time courtesy.
Hm… three things that I foresee this would affect:
1) if the guild’s cap was cut, the guild members would also have to be cut (temporarily). Building up a lost build roster could cause havoc. All those previously happy people would come to the forum and flame us.
2) big guilds who have already farmed everything and worked very hard would suddenly find that their resources were spent on nothing. More flamers.
3) guilds that want to be big wouldn’t want to have to pay tons simply to upgrade things that small guilds can upgrade for cheap. They would keep the roster empty or at the lowest cap until all the upgrades have been bought, and then bring people back. All the stranded members would understand the advantage and would donate to their guild to progress it. The same issue would still stand, because those guilds would have access to so many resources/income streams that smaller guilds don’t.But something that would make sense: adding small guild halls for small guilds. Services could be smaller (except WvW buffs) and more affordable for small guilds. Every guild wants a place to call home! And I personally feel that the guild halls are too insanely massive – unless, of course, they are brimming with members who hang out there regularly. Again, small guilds need smaller places. I want a hobbit hole. Or maybe a little old-Ascalon keep.
(Guild Wars 1 guild hall vendor quote: “Truly, what guild can call itself a guild without an island of its own? Come with me. I can take you on a tour of each island, and you can choose which you like the best.”)
Let me clarify, because I think you missed it.
Your guilds cap would be lowered to the lowest tier that it can support.
Meaning that if your guild is at capacity there is no change, if you are in a guild with 5 people but for some reason raised your cap to 500 people it would be lowered to the lowest tier, 50 people.
More examples:
Guild of 10 people, with a cap of 200, cap lowered to 50.
Guild of 55 people cap of 100, cap is unchanged
guild of 120 people cap of 500, cap is lowered to 200.How costs are adjusted, there are 6 tiers of guilds. Cost is adjusted based on your cap after your cap is lowered to the appropriate amount.
So a Tier 1 guild (50 member cap) has to pay 1/6th of the cost of an upgrade to get it. Favor and the time gate Aetherium costs stay the same no matter what tier your guild is.Due to this time gate, large guilds are still better off just paying for each upgrade. Especially when you consider for a 500 member guild, even for the most expensive upgrades you are looking at each member contributing 1-3 items per upgrade.
Compared to a small guild that has to pay 500, 1500 items per upgrade.
If you want when a guild increases its cap you can increase the fee to do that.
So a big guild has to pay more for exactly the same just because they are bigger. That’s seems extremely unfair.
And its totally ok that smaller guilds currently have to pay way more per player?
I am not against smaller guilds having to spend a bit more effort per person, but the current effort required to earn what we previously earned is way too kitten high.
No, they do not have to pay way more per player. Imho you are looking at it wrongly.
A big company needs a bigger building with more facilities. A smaller company needs a smaller building with less facilities.
As a smaller guild you might not want to try to get to level 40 and get the guild-expansion. You also might not want to get the Warroom, the Workshop, the Tavern and the Arena all fully upgraded but you might only want to go for the Warroom, or only for the Workshop of only those two (Depending on the size and the preferences). Or maybe you want to go for them all but not get them all completely upgraded.
That should be your goal as a smaller guild, just as a smaller company go’s for a smaller building with less facilities. The cost per member would then be the same.
The problem is, you basically are the small company but want the biggest building, with all possible facilities and then complain that it’s too expensive.
About losing what you had, I agree that that is sort of bad. I can understand it, but I agree it’s not ideal.
Except you have no choice other than be a small guild wanting a big hall and all that goes with it.. because there are no other options to have it smaller.
The costs per member are significantly different based on what ANET have pushed out.
Your argument would stand up if there were options on what size hall could be acquired.. which in turn designates what can be upgraded with effort/cost balanced against what a larger guild would require to take on that larger facility.
As it stands there is no choice, no scaling and therefore no comparable effort/cost between the sizes of guilds, its merely a way to forced a money sink and materials sink through the game.
By far most of them had a system in place that allowed even small guilds to progress, with requirements proportionate to their size.
Requirements proportionate to guild size won’t work. Find another solution
Yes they do and many other MMO’s have had such systems in place for years.. just takse someone to utilise a bit of creative thinking and know a bit about what an MMO’s is and how they work when balanced a whole lot better than what we have had pushed out with this expac – binkers off please and try thinking outside that little box.
Excuse me but “other MMO’s have had such systems” isn’t an argument. Post those great systems instead so we can have an actual discussion.
I already have in numerous other threads… answering the same question over and over begins to be a bit bind.. or should I say grind.. cos that’s what this has become.. grindwars to re-gather what was taken away.. that’s if you can…
Guild incentive systems have been implemented in lots of MMO’s ever since I can remember… it’s not rocket science.
You seem to have a problem thinking a guild can just recruit anyone (which they do already) in order to farm the necessaries to upgrade then boot everyone and say thanks… isn’t that what guilds have been doing since the dawn of GW2 in order to gain influence.
If a guild chooses to recruit up in order to meet the costs/efforts required to have the biggest mansion and the most upgrades, then so be it that’s up to them and those that want to be a number – if after all that they suddenly boot 90% of the guild well that’s the risk you take when you become a number in a faceless guild and its been done prior to HoT.
By have entry points and scaled costs/efforts means that everyone has inclusion to the content, the system and don’t have to spend their lifetime grinding it excessively in order to keep up with large guild that can push it through in 100x faster
No one wants any size of guilds to have it easy but by the same token it should not be all but unobtainable to others and scaling and tiering brings a way of balancing that out fairly.
As I said not everyone wants to be a number in a large guild, many guilds like my own and others we alliance with prefer to run in smaller groups so that we can all run the content together.. lets see that happen in a 500 man guild.. you cant, best we get now is openworld zergs and 10-man raids, heck you can’t even pvp together… how is that creating a community. I have more respect for community PUG guilds that go out and organise TEQ or 3HW.
Absolutely yes.
This expansions is making community so much healthier by cleaning a lot of people who cry for any reason. Which is a really good thing.Out with the old and whiney and in with the new.
lmao.. sooo much healthier.. implementing content that requires it to fail, fail fail while others wish to complete.. makes real healthier community handshaking…
New maps with Meta’s that that require large community participation… except all but one of those new maps are already absent of the living as they’ve relocated to the AFK portal in the Brink… playing a large part in destroying that map meta as well… but at least a community comes together in a united front and stand there AFK’ing together… should we all put out TS on and snore loudly together?
The most harmonious of the community can be found under the frogs camp , calmly farming their flax seeds or huddled around the elder wood tree patches in Malchors/Straits whilst whistling their tunes on their TS channels or half asleep watching the latest Netflix block buster.
People cry ands whine, as you like to put it because they wanted this game to be so much better and so much more inclusive from a community perspective.. now its become utterly fragmented and worse.. gear checks and raid kicks are now the order of the day, mixed in with some differing quest objective toxicity -
A real community soup bowl served HoT.
By far most of them had a system in place that allowed even small guilds to progress, with requirements proportionate to their size.
Requirements proportionate to guild size won’t work. Find another solution
Care to elaborate …. cos imo it does and many other MMO’s have had such systems in place for years.. ..
By far most of them had a system in place that allowed even small guilds to progress, with requirements proportionate to their size.
Requirements proportionate to guild size won’t work. Find another solution
Yes they do and many other MMO’s have had such systems in place for years.. just takse someone to utilise a bit of creative thinking and know a bit about what an MMO’s is and how they work when balanced a whole lot better than what we have had pushed out with this expac – binkers off please and try thinking outside that little box.
(edited by Bloodstealer.5978)
@Celtic Lady
" Upgrades for a guild should be based on percentages that directly relate to a guild’s size or activity level. " – kick everyone from your guild, leave only ~6 players > upgrade your guild > invite players you’ve kicked.
Influence was the best system. It’s so sad that ANet chose guilds for their gold sink.I tend to think this wouldn’t happen nearly to the degree people say it will. The logistical nightmare of getting hundreds of people back into your guild once you’ve kicked them for any length of time is fairly prohibitive. Besides, suggestions have already been made to make this less likely to happen.
logistical nightmare? Donate the required mats (for a 6 man guild) on the guild-bank. Make an alt guild and invite everybody there. Kick everybody from main guild. Do the upgrades, invite them back.
Not that it matters. Having to pay more for exactly the same thing is extremely unfair.
In addition to that bigger guilds usually also have a higher percentage less active members (and with less active I also mean, those less willing to donate, not just those online less). So now guilds would be forced to kick members who do not donate enough.
No, this system of mats bases on members is unfair and hard to balance right.
In my honest opinion smaller guilds just have to focus on elements of the hall. Just focus on getting everything to tier 1, or getting one element maxed out. And expect to do that in the same amount of time that it takes bigger guilds to max out the complete hall (so 6 to 9 months according to Anet.. While I have my doubts about that).
And so larger guild leaders should.. you wanna become a group of numbers then that’s up to you to recruit properly and managed it effectively/efficiently.
No one forced those guilds to become weighted down with inactives and spongers.. so absolutely they should be booted.
Do you take employment so you can either stay at home and do nothing or venture into work but do nothing all day long yet at the same time expect to be rewarded just cos you signed the job acceptance forms??… no you would be handed your exit papers in a heart beat cos no one likes to support dead weights no matter what…. that’s a responsibility that comes with running something whether in a game guild or RL.
Sure there are always a few exceptions to that for genuine reasons but if they are online and not contributing.. then its boot time!
Using a large guilds inability to organise themselves and get every player to contribute is no excuse when comparing the imbalance that has been handed to small guilds, where the time and efforts just to get back to where they were pre HoT is insanely out of sync if not near impossible for some… and those new players wanting to start guilds.. . enjoyable New Player Experience my backside.
Guild Halls aren’t meant for small guilds. Sure they made it so a group of 5 can capture it, but the upgrade are costly. This was done so you can only earn them if you’re willing to invest into your guild. It’s not fair for small guilds to get cheaper upgrades over larger guilds.
Here’s what I would recommend. Either you expand your guild and bring in more members who are willing to help upgrade, or join a larger, more established guild.
Ohh shhh.. you don’t have a clue what your talking about.. small guilds will always have to contribute more in every way than a larger guild has to .. difference is ANET couldn’t be bothered or lacked the ability to think up a suitable system in order to make one of the most sought after features inclusive for all.. no what we were handed was an insanely imbalanced one size fits all or GTFO of game system.
No one is saying small Guilds should get it easy but the amount of cost and effort should of been balanced – what we got was nothing short of pillaging of all the efforts players put in prior to HoT and then further stinging them to the point of utter boredom and bankruptcy after it went live.
It it’s a complete hash of anything player or guild friendly unless your prepared to become a faceless number in crowd of anybody’s.. other MMO’s must be licking their lips in anticipation rather than worrying how many of their own player base will leave to join GW2.
In the end we all have to realize that this is an MMO. Massively-Multiplayer-Online. I’m sure there’s plenty of games where you can have a great time and be able to do everything with 2-3 people. In the end there’s nothing ANet can do. Scaling won’t work well with a guild hall because it’s too easy to get around- lower mats required for a guild with less people? Sure, everyone leave the guild, wait a few days, and rejoin. The reality is that people will complain no matter what they do. You can not make everyone happy. And I don’t see how this is no longer casual friendly because of these few changes. This is hardly even 5% of the game, and nothing in the core world has really changed.
That is such a weak response… being that it is an MMO, why would you have any solo content what so ever? Guessing you didn’t play EQ/EQ2 with group required gating content? The scale at which you need others even in an “MMO” is obviously varied per-implementation regardless of what you seem to think it is.
I personally do not like large guilds and will not contribute to this misguided attempt to build social ties and keep people invested. The sad part is that you really should focus on smaller tight knit groups to build those social bonds. The large mc’guilds will not make people feel personally attached enough to achieve their goals.
Yes, I definitely said you should not be able to do ANYTHING solo. Totally. I said you should not expect to do EVERYTHING solo. Hence the name of the genre.
Of course I would like it if small guilds could keep up with large ones. But therein lies the issue. If you try to cater to smaller guilds larger guilds will take advantage of the system and get just as far in comparison to the smaller guilds as they do now. It’s a very delicate balance. Until I see someone with an amazing system that large guilds can NOT take advantage of in ANY way, I stand by my point.
You are missing my point. Just because a game is an “MMO” does not require, though it may imply, group content. I was being facetious. Obviously you did not indicate it should be all solo or group content, but to say that an MMO requires group content is also in my opinion invalid. GW2 really only had 5 man content prior to HoT and yet it was still an “MMO”. How exactly is 5 people massive multiplayer? Is it the open world zones that made it massive muliplayer?
5 man content only tri wurm, karka queen and teqatil among others says hello?
You have no idea what an MMO really is all about… its not about the content that’s out there… its about having the ability to have lots of players online playing the whole content base at any one time same time .
TEQ, 3HW, HoT map metas etc – yeah they require contributions by many players.. that’s the beauty of an MMO and especially openworld MMO – that content is inclusive for all, you don’t need to be grouped or a number in a large guild its there for any and all…
MMO has no bearing on why small guilds or micro guilds should not exist and it certainly doesn’t mean everyone has to become a number within a large guild or GTFO.
Try to engage some grey matter before jumping in with meaningless responses..
Should I go back to GW2? Is HoT worth it?
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Bloodstealer.5978
This is a really bad place to ask that question, this forum is just full of pessimistic people (many of which dont even actively play) who just lurk for threads to spew the same hate speech about the expansion that they were saying months befor release.
I would say look up some videos or something to get an idea of what the expansion is about
And then you also get those who like to preach everything is rosey, everyone else’s opinion is invalid if they don’t agree with the likes of you.
The forum is absolutely the place to ask questions and read others reviews, complaints and opinions –
Hate speech??>>> now who’s is being the drama queen, over the top much!
Just because others see the bad things the game delivers or the poor execution of what is put out, the poor communication they provide (unless its to support an issue with revenue stream).. try reading some and actually looking at those opinions from both sides…
No one is forcing you to agree with anything, but neither are they pushing out hate speech. In fact its more likely that they want this game to be so much better because of their fondness for it, that they take the time to put out their feedback an opinions in the first place in the hope someone might listen at ANET one day…rare occurrence I know, but not unheard of.
(edited by Bloodstealer.5978)
Lol a few Flax farmers swapping in and out isn’t the issue OP
The issues are for more severe….
- A raid entrance placed in a meta dominated map was only ever going to be an AFK heaven – how could ANET of thought any different is mind boggling.
- The majority of the expac is dominated by an overwhelming requirement to farm and grind.. farm for guild hall upgrades, farm for ascended gears, farm for new recipes like Vipers, Minstrels etc.
- Burnout – players becoming tired of non stop grinding for materials like Mithril, Elder Wood, Flax, (to name just a few things). They may also be getting bored of running the HoT maps when they are simply put – EMPTY of genuine activity.
Add all that up and I think you will find the flax farm (like 6 seeds.. big farm) is never in a million years the reason for map meta failings.
If you want to blame someone, blame the creative think tank back at HQ.
Bye.
Keep us posted on how your blog is going though you seem to have writen your next entry here isntead of there.
tl;dr: No one cares.
Actually it seems many do. And you can speak for all only your self. If you don’t care fine, no need to make an under the bridge reply.
Yes, because the flood of “I’m leaving for game xyz and I would love for everyone to aknowledge this” threads are not toxic to the community at all.
If you are unhappy, make a constructive thread about it addressing issues and/or simpply leave. A 2 liner implying you are a special snowflake and are now leaving for this way more amazing game certainly is not.
Oh you mean like your constructive critique about the op and insulting people and name calling. LOL. Take off the blinders.
Oh I’m sorry, I guess these forums are not for constructive discussions. Good job on derailing the already useless thread. Let’s keep the content here on this level.
Also I never said my critique was constructive. It’s hard to give constructive critique to something like this.
Some people.
Wow.. and your gem of a post was oooh so constructive and worthy of further discussion… guess we cant cure clueless!!
I have stopped doing guilds missions with the guild altiogether, some people from the officers and the always active do them now, in WvW and PvP, We completely sopped PvE guild mission
We have a guild hall now, but other then the 10 man raid group noone can play together anymore, even if we all travel to the guild hall we end up in multiple overflows. yes… all togetehr in different maps.
Dungeons are history and
Raids are for a very limited group,
Most of the WvW-ers haven’t been online for a week or 2 now,
Guild misisons in PvE are a total mess, illusion or otherwise non existent thing.
Guild hall is mostly useless
Scribe is uselessI need to replace armro on 4 characters still cause my armor was invalidated… I lost all corresponding runes.
I’m having so much fun.
no…
And I was the guy managing guild missions…Well I can only repeat them again and again… only to see most have no chance.
HoT for group play….. Well…. yes the hardcores who are not deterred by HP bags, in maps which NEVER complete….HoT is a failure, at least gameplay wise.
We are at a point where I’m no longer telling people to buy the game. I warn them they should go and enjoy the F2P and if they like it they could consider an upgrade.
I hear ya Pax.
All this expac has become a giant grind without any real impetus on the actual content.
The maps and the difficulty of them is fun but its not fun when the maps are all but empty 90% of the time and WvW isn’t seeming to great either when I jump in to play that mode.
Farm and grind are already sucking the life out of many of us I think the raid will likely share the same fate as soon as its shine wears off. Right now I see very little point in going to the new maps other than to farm because they fail more times than they complete.. if they even get to the meta finale.
As for guilds not even getting into their own guild hall together.. mine wont have that issue, but it screams of “we didn’t think of that either” if that is indeed happening, and it would surprise me anymore if that was the reasoning.
@Linken … When you buy a house you normally buy small and start out.. then as your family outgrows it you move up the ladder… not many people go out and buy a mansion as their first property do they?
If I can place that kind of analogy in place to represent a guild in what, 3mins then surely ANET could of thought it out in the months, years that they had at their disposal prior to implementing this rubbish.. but as I say, I think they lack the creative input into such systems or they are shackled far too much by the bean counters. Either way it makes for a completely out of balanced approach to game wide system and it sounds like its having a profound effect on the players/guilds if this small sample size of feedback is anything to go by.
Just because you seem to think guilds are created for a single purpose doesn’t mean everyone does… If a single player wants to buy a mansion then good luck to them, enjoy the build and upgrade time/costs, so ANET has it spot on for those players, but others don’t get an option to have anything else other than a mansion and so are forced to have to put a disgusting amount of extra effort in per person in order to even get to where they were prior to the expac providing this crap we have been handed.
I personally would hate to be a new player starting out in GW2 now because unless they enjoy whipping out a credit card to buy gems each da,y life is going to be pretty are forced into becoming just another number in one of those faceless 500’s.
Bottom line is ANET didn’t implement this ridiculous guild hall malarkey for the purposes you think they have and it might just bite them in the backside and deservedly so imo.
As for my comment regarding raids.. it was not in answer to what you said to anyone else in particular it was a general comment to say yay we got a raid, but we don’t create guilds in a game just to smash them…
I agree and am tired of repeating this as well…
Some people are just incapable of seeing things through a lens other than their own.
In addition to MMO not meaning you have to play cooperatively, there are many reasons to play an MMO even if you’re a total loner like me… some of which are:
> the sheer number of hours of entertainment compared to single player games,
> the various different ways to spend your time in game,
> the level of control you have over your own path,
> all the shinies!Yes and you can still do that in game you just cant have said guild hall or raiding since it demands more people then you are willing to have around you.
I dont go around moaning that I cant go in the carpool lane or use family parking spaces at supermarkets, when Im the only one in my family.
I adapt to how it is and maybe so should you?and who are you to decide for others to play how YOU want? We want to play how WE want. is that so hard to understand? you seem not to be able to grasp the concept of it what people are trying to explain here, how does it hurt you for people having a 3 man guild? explain that to me.
So asking people to adapt to how the game is are somehow telling them to only run chest farms or dungeons or raids or what ever now?
Why should 3 people be able to do the work of 50 or 100, simple they cant in the same time.
OP have said they could get guild hall even tho it would take years, and thats amazing that they can do what the game think alot of people to make over time.And they shouldent be able to it wasent meant for micro guilds, the fact that they can is the good thing.
But to then turn around and complain about it, is like my football team reference before.
Everyone would look at OP as they were crazy if they complained that they cant be a 2 man soccer team and play against every other soccer team fairly.
What is the draw to join big guilds if 2 people can do everything?
It dont take away anything to me and Im not in a super big guild 3 1 person guilds 1 with roughly 30 people working on the guild hall. (that understand it will take longer then it will do for 35-500 people)
But I understand why its there, its for alot of people to band together and build something thats theirs, not 1 person to build their mansion.
clueless response as ever.. you clearly have a very poor grasp on what guilds are ..
Sorry to burst your bubble but guilds are not just built to bust a raid wing or zerg a WvW map.
If small or micro guilds were not to be inclusive then the game should never of allowed them to be made in the first place. Sure a raid has come in with a 10 man requirement, how does that stop a 5 man guild beating it, when there is anLFG in place.
Why should even a 10 or 20 man guild have to work 10x harder per player and put in vastly more of their own time into the game in order to build something a faceless 500 guild can do in a few hours. Fact is ANET wanted this to money grab from those outside of these faceless guilds and to tear away all the materials and money they have allowed to be farmed in the game this past 12 months via fail farms, SW chest farms Champ /WB farm because it was the only thing they could come up with to keep players logged in during the great content depression.
This Guild Hall crap is simply an overspill of that lack of creative thinking which is aimed at one thing and that’s to drop the economy on lots of items like T5 stuff and encourage gem sales because they know many guilds and many players are going to face famine in game through this.
They even couldn’t be bothered or lacked the creativity to come up with guild Hall scaled requirements so that the effort and cost levels were balanced. That doesn’t mean large guilds lose out or small guilds get it easy. It’s about making content and features mutually inclusive not exclusive.
Small guilds should of been able to claim a guild hall appropriate to their guild size with a specific amount of functionality and upgrades.. large guilds would have greater upgradeability like decos… but as guilds grow beyond their tier, (if they choose) then they would be required to upgrade their hall size to the next tier or the Guild or Guild Halll would be capped with no further players allowed to be recruited or enter the hall.
That way small guilds still have to work to achiev certain things and pay if they want a fully functioning, fully upgradeable guild hall.
What we have now is a one sixe fits all, but actually it doesn’t fit and has a massive and disrespectful imbalance.. why should guilds lose what they have taken 3 years to build and then be faced with an almost impossible task of getting it back again.
It doesn’t affect me and my guild even though were small, we saw this coming by reading behind what wasn’t being told to the community when giving all those heads up on the expakittenil the time was right – and that time was right as the expac launched.. hence those little gem red posts that suddenly landed prior to launch day
(edited by Bloodstealer.5978)
I wasn’t talking about raids either. Anet said the whole of HoT was a step up in challenge. Focus of the game hasn’t changed, it’s still Barbie and Ken Dress up MMO and still allows for non-pros to play 99% of the game and feel good about how awesome they killed that mob while watching Netflix and pressing 1. Game is still casual friendly; they haven’t removed any of the content that all the casual people love to do.
I get it .. even though Anet warned you about the difficult content, you were hoping for something different and bought HoT anyways. It’s got some surprises you don’t like that offend your ‘want to solo an MMO’ playstyle and now you’re unhappy and trying to think of ways to show how the wool was pulled over your eyes.
You said nothing of value after clearly not reading or comprehending my replies in this thread… again. Run along now…
The guild halls IMO were a QoL update, Not Content…
Except they have brought zero quality of life to many because of the really poor, lame and lazy design, the really inconsiderate way they have thought through the impact it would have on many players and guilds and the half baked way its been implemented churning out nothing but farm, farm, grind, grind methodologies … no maybe its not considered content and its QoL is abysmal, in fact I would say many players will simply not bother with it and those that do will lose interest in not just farming the crap out of the expac in order to upgrade it, but in the game in general… right there is QoL.
Every day I spend hours roaming the maps for trash events all because I can never get a group to join the one server active in the meta event. If I ever manage to join the meta event, I get DC right before it ends with no credit given. (Yes. I’m using the 64 bit client)
Difficulty is not a problem. The servers are the problem.
And when you finally land in that primed meta crunching map you can spend the best part of an hour more … then you blink and you have been pushed to an empty map without rhyme or reason.. this megaserver malarkey is utter trash and should be renamed megafailure..
You can be waiting ages for a map to ramp up to full potential, especially since ANET thought it would be a good idea to place the raid entrance inside one of those meta maps… only to find all your time and efforts are just puked on by this shambolic server system.
There is a reason other MMO’s like this kind of stuff either instanced or the game provides the ability for players to choose which map copy they want to be in, not that, that concept would sort this games server frailties.
A guild hall is for a guild, not for 3 players. Also, the guild hall is not much content, it’s just a huge area with nothing in it (well with fluff in it if it’s filled with… fluff like a chair you can’t even sit on).
Besides the +% food the tavern guy gives me, and cheap transportation to the Magus Falls, I don’t need it.
The skins. The entire purpose of this game behind a wall of friends I don’t have. If it was all just a place to run around, I wouldn’t give a rat’s kitten . It’s not about buffs (though 10% xp, karma, etc is nice when you’re leveling or farming… It’s about the skins we won’t have. It’s about the principle of the thing…
Content gating can suck my butt.
Not every game and game’s content can satisfy everyone’s need, deal with it. This is an MMO and it follows mostly the guidlines of an MMO. Why can’t people accept this? I don’t like those skins actually, but yes, this is an argument.
The reason I play this game is because it wasn’t just another MMO… until now. It was different, a beautiful refuge.
Why can’t you accept that not everyone loves the guidelines of other MMO’s? I’ve played them all and am SO freaking tired of their linear progression models and requisite guilds and reputation grinds, etc… blah blah…
There are many reasons to play an MMO even when you’re a solitary soul. Just think about the total amount of time you can put into a non-MMO. Skyrim gets the most hours of any non-MMO, but most others… what? 40 hours? If you’re lucky. I put 3 years of hours (not even kidding) into Wow before I quite after Cata. I am 2406 hours into GW2. That’s over 100 full days. Clearly, I have staying power… when I have viable reasons to stay.
You are playing a game called Guild Wars 2.. and complaining about requisite guild stuff. like.. the clue is literally in the name. I’m sorry, I understand it must be frustrating – but quite simply 3 people is not what I’d call a small guild – as already stated it’s not even a party. You can’t do dungeons or raids with that few people – and those both have skins associated, and dungeons have been in since release. By your logic, that itself is wrong – and I’m sorry, but an MMO is designed around large groups of people working together (that’s why it’s Massively Multiplayer, not Miniscule). To do most things in this game, you are going to have to deal with more than 2 or 3 people at once, and to complain about this in such a manner is, quite frankly, more than a little narrow minded. As someone else suggested, you should increase the size of your guild. Even just to say, 20 people. It’d take a while, but you’d still be able to get some of the content you feel you have been so unjustly locked out of.
Firstly – Wall of Text Fail
Secondly – ANET made the game inclusive to Guilds of all sizes, in fact I seem to remember them even suggesting we should all consider having our own personal guilds some time back to allow them access to the benefits that come with this feature. If they did not support guilds of less than say 5 players.. why then is it possible to create them and previously upgrade them accordingly..
Thirdly – Maybe take a read up cos it might just be you that has missed the clue in the title.
Lastly – MMO does not mean you have to been in large faceless 500 guilds..
Small guilds don’t have to become large just because a raid enters town.. guilds are not formed for that reason alone, sorry to shatter that elitist theory.
This game boasts of its approach to openworld content.. you know where whole maps engage in metas or even down to the smallest of openworld events where anyone can join in… suggest taking a piece of “engage brain before opening mouth pie” before bed tonight.
The raid was designed for organized groups of highly experienced and geared players to have a challenge. Anyone who complains about the raid being inaccessible is missing the point.
Suggest reading the thread and not guessing up some other hype you heard somewhere else.
This thread is nothing to do with the raid – - THREAD EXIT – - >>
Pretty sure u can get a guild hall with 2-3 people. Seen several guilds claim it. Smaller guilds can do it easier actually. Mine did it with 5 one of which kept dc’ing and one of which couldn’t glide, so basically 3 lol.
Rubbish.. 2-3 man guilds use the LFG or pull alliances via map chat to take it on.
I would love to see the video s of those 2-3 man attempts.. or they never happened.
Smallest I know of getting the job done was 6 man and that was at after several attempts.. ours was done with a small amount of time to spare taking 8 players in who all knew what to do and were appropriately geared.
I did it with 5, made a forum post when everyone whined, feel free to search for it, and posted a screenshot. so there’s your proof. Oh and not everyone makes videos of it especially if they were just attempting and not sure if they could or not.
Correct lots of guilds do make alliances and grab a few extra players and that’s a legit strategy. But I fully believe at least 4 would be possible too b/c as stated above our guardian didn’t have updraft mastery yet so he had to run a lot and miss half of them, yet we still got most of them down with 4.
Errmmm proof.. ….5 is not 2-3, but as I said, the smallest I have heard of in game is 6 – Gz on getting it done with 5, though a video often shows a lot more than a screen of course and not sure why you felt you had to get all defensive on something that did not directly relate to your own attempt.. it was a “generalist” rubbish to anyone claiming to have done it 2-3 man without any semblance of proof other than a forum post.
Pretty sure u can get a guild hall with 2-3 people. Seen several guilds claim it. Smaller guilds can do it easier actually. Mine did it with 5 one of which kept dc’ing and one of which couldn’t glide, so basically 3 lol.
Rubbish.. 2-3 man guilds use the LFG or pull alliances via map chat to take it on.
I would love to see the video s of those 2-3 man attempts.. or they never happened.
Smallest I know of getting the job done was 6 man and that was at after several attempts.. ours was done with a small amount of time to spare taking 8 players in who all knew what to do and were appropriately geared.
That said.. getting the guild hall isn’t really the issue, it’s not easy for small guilds but with an LFG or some requests for help from friends or just even pugs from map chat.. it can be done relatively pain free bar the waiting around and a few practice runs maybe… that is the least of the guilds woes… the rest soon smacks the guild in the face.
(edited by Bloodstealer.5978)
I’ve seen a lot of frustration from people on the current upgrade system. There is no way to perfectly balance guild hall progression with consideration to guild size. However, I think there is a reasonable solution. Give guilds the option to halve the necessary materials for an upgrade by doubling the amount of aetherium needed to complete the job.
This way smaller guilds don’t get bankrupt if they don’t mind waiting a little longer.
All WvW guild claiming upgrades need to be free and unlocked at any guild hall level. You shouldn’t need to pay for a feature that was already unlocked before HoT launched. That’s just ridiculous.
Scribing should no longer be a crafting profession for individuals but a collaborative effort amongst guild members which is accessed via the new Guild Scribe npc. The highest level scribe in the guild converts over to the scribe npc’s level.
Of course it can be balanced.. every MMO I have ever played, which includes guild housing has them balanced with rewuirements scaled accordingly… this isn’t something that is a new concept its been around for donkeys years and done a million times better than this rubbish we got handed down.
The bottom line is this guild hall implant was merely a stealth gold/materials sink.. except its not stealthy at all and its far from evenly weighted.
Guild Halls absolutely can and are scaled based on guild sizes in many MMO’s and the hall/content/mechanics/costs/incentives and rewards tied to the guild are scaled accordingly – it’s not rocket science.. it’s just poor content decision making that came up with this one size fits all malarkey made even worse if they didn’t even realise the impact it would have across the whole guild spectrum.
To then just negate all the efforts guilds of all shapes and sizes had put in previously and tucked what they had behind walls that for some will take an age to break down again, if ever… well it speaks volumes to me and I am beginning to wonder if these people ever played an MMO in their lives because this kind of BS can lead to a proportion of the player base sticking two fingers in the air and uninstall at the next opportunity.
Why should 5 players have to grind an eternity for something a faceless 500 guild can farm in a few hours – they have no idea what balance really is, is what I am thinking.
Like other things that have been pushed through GW2 there is such a big disconnect between what could and should of been developed and what the bean counter says they want developed.. this is nothing more than another way of pushing gem sales and gem to gold conversions…. hence the sudden announcement that they are also taking stronger views on RMT.. something they should of been doing from day 1.
No, what ANET preferred was to implement the perfect gamewide sink because they knew it was a hot potato that had been cooking on the forums for some time.. and they have taken advantage of it.
(edited by Bloodstealer.5978)
OP, I’m probably never going to beat the raid. I don’t think my guild will be stalwart enough to bang their heads against it long enough to succeed. Maybe a few people will, but most won’t. There are rewards that you can only get with raids that you can’t get outside of raids.
A while back they offered a set of armor you could only get by winning a PvP tournament. I won’t ever get that armor. Ever. Not once.
You can still be a guild. You can even have a guild hall if it means that much to you.
But even if you are a guild, not everyone is going to be guaranteed every reward. You either way, I’m not going to get every reward, and deal with it,. or you don’t.
If you don’t, you leave the game. If you do, you play the game. It’s pretty simple.
As I’ve warned in other threads, if there are enough rewards casuals can’t get they’re feel disenfranchised and some of them will leave. That’s still true. Some people will leave the game over changes made to the game. That’s true for all MMOs btw.
But having a guild doesn’t necessarily entitle you to every future benefit of being in a guild.
One of the big complaints larger guilds have had since launch, particularly ones that don’t WvW is that there was really nothing for them to work towards. If everything is attainable by the smallest guilds, what is there for large guilds to do?
Up until recently, with the exception of WvW, large guilds had pretty much Triple Threat…maybe Tequatl. That’s pretty much the list.
Anet is simply filling a void. And yes, some people will feel disenfranchised by it.
Having lead a guild for over 12 years from small to medium to large throughout that time I have never ever heard of a guild complaining they had nothing to aim for and achieve because other smaller guilds can achieve the same thing… If ANET are truthfully looking to make such content exclusively for faceless 500 guilds in GW2 then that’s where a lot of small guilds will just pack up and go find an MMO that knows what they are doing – I think though your just talking a load of tosh as usual!
I’m genuinely getting more and more baffled by the complaints on this forum.
You can’t expect content to be balanced around 2-3 person guilds. That doesn’t even qualify as a full party!
The game type should clue you in… Massivley-Multiplayer-Online.
If you can’t stand the rest of the community to thebpointbyou have hamstring your enjoyment of the game… Well, that’s your issue and not Anets.
And for the love of Dhuum. Does ever single tiny tangential complaint need a new thread?! This forum is already hard enough to navigate without “I’m quitting HOT because X” thread number 9000.
You should all start an anti hot support group guild, then you will have plenty of people to get a guild hall.
/rant
Clueless answer.. is just clueless
Of course you can balance it.. its called scaling.. and pretty much every MMO I have ever played has scaling.
You want a small guild.. you buy a small guild hall, which is a scaled down version of the same guild a faceless 500 guild owns.. with the ability to expand it should you so wish.
Other ways to provide the same thing for all is to scale the cost/benefits/rewards accordingly, then all they have to think of is a suitable scaling on missions to make them more inclusive.. if a small guild wants to run the larger missions/ puzzles etc then scale the time and mechanics but then scale the reward in line with it.
If pretty much every MMO on the planet can think of ways to make content scalable and inclusive for all by balancing out the efforts in/rewards out then why couldn’t
ANET?
They either lack the knowledge of MMO space or they simply rushed this out so blatantly unpolished and forgot to care because they already had the ker-ching, ker-ching ringing in their ears.
STOP crying all the time , sooner or later they will fix it. If you want no problems at all , start paying montly fee so they can have more programmers to minimize or fix bugs a lot faster , AND THATS THE TRUTH LIKE IT OR NOT ! ! !
Stop talking rubbish…. every MMO out there has bugs and crashes .. monthly fee or not even if they invest in more programmers.
But as we have paid for this expansion, the least they could of done was QA’ed it a lot better than this beta release…or do you often buy products from the shop that are broken with a view to waiting till they fix it afterwards..
This is why they put that gem of a message out a few days before launch. They knew there were glaring issues but rather than polishing it off they took the money of us and now its in the lap of the Gods when things get fixed or re-brainstormed to think their decisions on content/mechanics through some more.
Sure HoT has issues.. a lot imo and every MMO has issues too from time to time, but GW2 patch issues are really starting to wear thin on some of us to the point I dread patch days now, cos its kinda like being in one massive PUG group waiting for that #1 rule of pugging to materialise – you know the “always expect the unexpected!” rule.
Nah VB isn’t empty…. take a look just past Jaka WP and you will every man and their dog (eerm angry chest).
Just that with sooo many their not enough people can get into to do a successful VB meta now unless your lucky to find a map doing it on the LFG.
I really do believe that their is some real disconnect between the people that develop the game and the people that play it nowadays.. this kind of basic flaw is just .. well its just one thing after another nowadays.
The other maps are even worse now.. and they really do begin to require a larger population contribution.
Add to the fact that GW2 has imo one of the worst map join mechanics in MMO space and an LFG tool that offers almost zero control of your group make up and is more useful for advertising portals, home instance farming, Guild Recruitment and Item sales than it ever has been for grouping up.. and not even updated to include the new raid before it went live.
TBH HoT for me is starting to be a real dissapointment
This is a reason why I have like.. 60 black lion chests just sitting in my bank.. lol
Wow you must buy keys a lot.. cos I can loot 60 chests in a few days.
In fact every time I buy a set of 5 keys.. I guarantee I will have looted at least 5- 10 chests in the next day or 2 to replenish and tempt me to buy more.. its like buying keys is a trigger.
If I leave the gems in my wallet for any significant amount of time, chests seem to slow up considerably almost as if the game gives up on me and says “meeehh – dat foo not gunna buy no more, no more, no more, nooo more so hit da road chump and don’t ya come back no more!”
This is a reason why I have like.. 60 black lion chests just sitting in my bank.. lol
Wow you must buy keys a lot.. cos I can loot 60 chests in under a week if I really put my mind to it .. that’s why I got a full stack staring at me in the bank.. I only buy keys to burn the excess after selling 20-30 on the TP
In fact every time I buy a set of 5 keys.. I guarantee I will have looted at least 5- 10 chests in the next day or 2 to replenish what I used and tempt me to buy more.. its like buying keys is a trigger.
If I leave the gems in my wallet for any significant amount of time, looting chests seems to slow up considerably almost as if the game gives up on me and says “meeehh – dat foo not gunna buy no more, no more, no more, nooo more so hit da road chump and don’t ya come back no more!”
This is a reason why I have like.. 60 black lion chests just sitting in my bank.. lol
Wow you must buy keys a lot.. cos I can loot 60 chests in a few days.
In fact every time I buy a set of 5 keys.. I guarantee I will have looted at least 5- 10 chests in the next day or 2 to replenish and tempt me to buy more.. its like buying keys is a trigger.
If I leave the gems in my wallet for any significant amount of time, chests seem to slow up considerably almost as if the game gives up on me and says “meeehh – dat foo not gunna buy no more, no more, no more, nooo more so hit da road chump and don’t ya come back no more!”
I must be missing something OP… you bought 10 keys and you won something every time it seems… guaranteed win… so what is the question all about.
Ooh I get it.. you decided to buy 10 keys , didn’t get the shiny you wanted out of the chests and now cry foul… can’t take the hit, then don’t play the gambling game – simples!
This is a repeat of the LS1 NPC debacle – I thought your supposed to learn from mistakes….