Guild Wars 2

What: Everything

Why: I went afk in the middle of EB to make a sandwich and I came back to find myself dead and a Thief dancing on my corpse. This is clear evidence that the whole class is unacceptably OP and requires immediate deletion and replacement with the sandwichmancer.

I like sandwiches.

This is a terrible idea and doesn’t even come close to fixing problems with PvE.

PvE is a zerker-only meta because everything is easy, nothing requires tactics or roles except for damage and methods to supplement/boost the damage. Toughness and Vitality are completely meaningless in a game where mobs have lots of health and high damage output, and don’t actually use any intelligence to fight you (hence why their stats are inflated, to compensate for being stupid). Oh, and reflects and standing in a corner.

Fix the game, not the gear. This would literally fix absolutely nothing.

No way – Shortbus is perfect.

For Excalibur, everyone else can ignore if they want to.

And finally, I know I said I wasn’t going to contribute to this circular discussion any longer, but I’d like to just point out that Aijkinx wasn’t even using Signet of Malice. It was not on his status bar.

1) No, you are not. Dragonbrand is an NA server. There is absolutely no connectivity between the 2 datacentres. Do you even play this game?

2) The difference in mob count is negligible at best. I’m watching it right now. You were under barely any more threat than I was, you just allowed yourself to get nailed by everything because you’re a terrible Guardian (which you admit to) and then your pitiful DPS gave the illusion that they had multitudes more health than they actually have. The only noticeable shift is that you had a couple of Shades on you to begin with because some players pulled them. In my scenario, the NPCs pulled them a little later instead. You can blame that Ranger/Thief (the one with an Ascended bow and crafted exotics) for pulling every single one directly on top of you. The numbers are not stretched – they just concentrate, which is what begins to happen at the end of my clip. You need to remember that the event is immediately scaled for a group. It does not cater to a solo player, hence “Group Event”. It begins to properly scale after around 4-5 people. You want evidence of that? Solo the Priest (if you can) and then do the final defense event. Armies descend upon you even if you are alone. There is no such thing as a solo group event scale.

3) If you really care about the background circumstance for the server (which doesn’t even matter), this isn’t even guesting. This is Gandara (my home server, Very High population) at midnight.

4) You had to deal with 2, sometimes 3 Shades until the Medium player pulled everything else on to you at the end. A headless chicken can do that.

In summary, the difference is minute and you’re making up excuses at this point. Any criteria to be met has been destroyed and buried. My only contribution after this will be to link the Ashford champs for Excal.

Still no Shades. What? Did you watch it for like 10 seconds?

I don’t know how many times I have to say I’m EU and you are NA before you understand it cannot be done.

Ending up having to kite an army of Shades is totally tricking the game, guys

Too busy dodging/healing to do damage? Pistol Whip dodges, heals AND does damage. Point = moot.

I eagerly await to hear what’s wrong with this one. And, if you didn’t pay attention the first time around, I won’t join you because you are NA, unless you are willing to pay $60 and grind a new character for me. Then, I’d be happy to squash your “challenges” in person.

If you wanted a video without stacking/LoS and with a rather chaotic scene of mobs and Shades, then I just did it first try – killed the mobs in front of Jonez, then ran all the way up to the Priest without stopping and fought everything face to face. I got downed once from Corruption (not even a HP/Armor danger and could happen to a Guardian so your whining about Guardians is moot there) but it’s easy to res yourself with Ice Elementals that you just end up accidentally tagging half the time, or just takes a nanosecond to bring yourself up when you one-shot any of them with full Berserker. That video will also be uploaded tonight. When it’s up, take ONE look at the army that is following me near the Priest’s death and I dare you to argue against it.

Seriously, I don’t understand what you’re trying to say anymore. The 10% nerf affects everyone. You are 10% worse, but so is absolutely everybody else. You are still the same relative to them.

Interceptor.2653:

Interceptor.2653:

Denar.3950:

I wonder how Travlane will justify his claims now

By undermining the video, of course.

I called it. Give me all your +1’s.

Yeah, completely forgot about that. Got to give you credit, I was fully expecting at least one of those points. I’m done here, it’s just a flat-out waste of time trying to reason with him, but I will link the Ashford champs when that uploads tomorrow for Excalibur’s sake. Want to use the bandwidth for the new LS update for today.

Yes, I can deny that. I have no further need to prove myself. Like I already said, the event is already scaled above one player (hence “GROUP EVENT”). Also, no, we can’t do it together because you are on NA, and I would also never want to be in your presence, because even if I followed your ridiculous, pedantic criteria to follow your anti-Thief agenda you would make up pathetic excuses over and over again until I bent the rules of reality and entered the game universe, strangled the Shades one by one with my bare hands and then whipped out an Assault Rifle and tore down the entire building.

Get over yourself.

I have lost all hope in rationality. All possible arguments you could ever make for class balance or, well, anything to do with this game are null and void.

If you also didn’t notice, I tanked him and killed all the mobs surrounding him at the same time, and the event is already tagged as a Group Event and as such is already scaled above a single player?

Please, give up. Just, please.

Excalibur.9748:

There is nothing in the entire of the PvE scene that evasion + SoM cannot beat.

Horace and Ivor Trueshot.

Challenge accepted. Ivor already done, got Horace to 10% before making a mistake and a random came in to res me and finish it, so will get that done soon.

EDIT: Done, will upload as soon as I put the pieces together.

There, even used Zerk + Scholar just for you.

What exactly do you hope to achieve by splitting the skill like Flanking Strike?

Will the split just be that: a split, with no other change? Will you increase the stun duration or flurry damage or anything like that? I like the skill as it is, and how it feels to use. I just want to know what you want to do/achieve by taking the skill in this direction. My biggest worry is that a split will cause an aftercast or delay between the two skills that might be incredibly uncomfortable if done poorly.

Editing refers to adding text showing the build that I forgot to display and speeding up the pre-event (this does not include Grenth, which has absolutely no speed/clip edits, just one piece of text that pops up). Why am I including the pre-event? Because I like to be thorough, deal with it. The couple of hours would be my upload speed, because my ISP is terrible and the uncompressed clip is multiple GB that I refuse to wait 3 days for (which is pretty much the whole reason I edit things, I then add text for good measure).

Upload will take 90 minutes. If you’re interested, it takes 2:20 to kill him, from first dealing damage with Caltrops before the pull is complete to the final Sword strike. True kill would take 2:30 or so since a single Necro runs in and puts down a couple of condis when the Priest is about to die.

Done. Editing and uploading asap. Should be a couple of hours.

K. Gandara seems empty. I will try and get a recording for you.

Funnily enough, I didn’t even use any conditions or +Healing. I had PTV + Traveler (my event farming gear) with Berserker trinkets and ran S/P + SB. I don’t remember the exact build at the time, it may have been 25/30/0/15/0 since I did it immediately after soloing Arah p2 (using Berserker + Scholar) and I wanted those extra evasions for Lupi. I dread to think how little effort a condition build with apothecary would take (I only really used one properly on the one Fractal level where crits hurt you, and it was a borefest of 333swapshiftshift3333swapshift333shift3swap).

Like I said, if I find an empty server that isn’t stuck then I’ll record something. It’s a bit of a tall order these days (even Vabbi has at least one other person there sometimes), but some day I might be able to get around to it.

Point is, I don’t really get it. The guardian was hitting like a wet noodle and refused to die. Yay? We can refuse to die and not hit like a wet noodle (much more evident with condi setups).

Travlane.5948:

there is no thief build that can stand up and attack that priest of grenth.

There is nothing in the entire of the PvE scene that evasion + SoM cannot beat.

I have also solo’d this before (in my event farming gear which is PTV + Traveler armor instead of Berserker + Scholar, but whatever), it’s not even remotely difficult. When you’re the only one around you can just pull him towards the back of the temple (near the skill point) and then to the side (breaking LoS), and the Shades won’t even pay attention to you in that corner.

If I find an empty server that hasn’t bugged and can get to that stage then I’ll record it, but really, just try it if you get aggro next time. SoM will easily outheal any incidental damage from Ice Elementals, you can kite any leftover Risen that give up fighting NPCs to join you in that corner and melt them down along with the Priest and the Priest himself doesn’t use anything dangerous up close until the big circles which take a few seconds to land.

oZii.2864:

There was nothing wrong with them being loose. They have done plenty of ’professional" streams no banter. I liked this much better them being not robotic and they looked relaxed.

The streams are always blogged on reddit and dulfy afterwards.

ronpierce.2760:

I agree. People need to stop being so kitten serious about their game and let people have fun with their job. If they can’t have fun doing that their life would be terrible having to put up with all the spoiled hardasses on the forums who never let up.

The problem here is that they were so loose that they COMPLETELY screwed up their timing. They spent so long rambling to each other that by the time they got to balance the first 3 or 4 classes in the line-up got all the detail and then the rest would get stuff like “we got 10 minutes, go!”, “we got 5 minutes, hurry up!”

It’s fine to be relaxed but when you’re so relaxed you totally mess up your timing you need to tighten back up a little.

Swagg.9236:

Trouble is, ANet goes about giving [Pin Down] a nice little telegraph, but then turns around and gives [Burning Speed] evasion frames.

1) Burning Speed is easy to dodge.
2) Burning Speed is attached to Elementalist, a HYPER-squishy class in sPvP that doesn’t even warrant spots in tournament teams at the moment. You think everyone can lay back as much as a Warrior? Get real. Evasion frames on one skill isn’t even close to bringing Ele to tPvP viability any day soon.

A negligible increase in cast time to a skill that will still connect through the thousands of particle effects anyway, attached to a class that won’t die in an instant if the intended skill doesn’t land/work. Boo-kitten-hoo.

It’s about time we get a 2-handed melee weapon. I couldn’t care less about dual skills.

That big feature patch in March/April had better have new weapons for each class and include this.

As for what you’re saying about a nerf, I don’t get it. Shortbow is even better now.

8 people allowed a Thief to kill them all? Then all 8 of them are so unbelievably terrible at the game that they should just, I don’t know, sit down and think about how they even allowed a situation that should be physically impossible happen.

Really, this cannot be a serious thread. Well, to be fair, I can never take a thread seriously if the OP says “thiefs”. If there were any serious concerns about SR, they don’t exist in this thread.

It’s going to be either “and” or no suffix at all.

Einlanzer.1627:

Didn’t they say in the livestream it was PvE only? Regardless, I’m not worried about it. Improving incentives to use other builds is a good thing.

PvE IS WvW. It’s the same thing to Arenanet, there is no balancing difference between them. WvW will use the PvE stats.

On topic, he says “good things” will be coming next patch. I don’t really care about Choking Gas, it was an insane amount of Poison anyway. It doesn’t feel good for them to care so little about Thief that we get less than a minute of airtime and don’t go in to any detail while Elementalist gets a slew of fantastic buffs dribbled everywhere for twitch chat to fap to.

What the…? You literally REVERSED what I just said. Like, completely, literally. I said the EXACT opposite of what you think I said. I’m done reasoning with you.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

That’s blindly assuming that no one else in the group can stack vulnerability.

If all I can maintain is 1-stack, it’s still more reasonable to take Mug because someone in the party will be out stacking me and the extra damage I get for using mug with their vulnerability stack over shadows the need for SS.

That’s the point, someone else will be doing it better and you’re better off taking advantage of it by choosing damage.

Um, he just said that 1 stack of Vulnerability will result in the net damage gain for the group surpassing Mug, therefore disproving the notion that you can capitalise on sub-25 Vulnerability with Mug and somehow get more damage than using SS. That simply isn’t true.

I don’t know if you’re being stubborn just to be annoying, but I don’t even get your point anymore. If the group gets 25 stacks without you, don’t take SS and use Mug to capitalise on the maximised stacks. If the group doesn’t, take SS and end up with more group DPS contribution than Mug. It doesn’t matter if others are better at applying Vulnerability. The more the merrier UNTIL the cap is reached.

Really, I don’t think this is a difficult concept.

I’ll say again. IT DOES NOT MATTER WHO IS APPLYING VULNERABILITY, AND IT DOESN’T MATTER IF OTHERS ARE BETTER AT IT THAN YOU, AS LONG AS THE CAP IS REACHED.

Karolis.4261:

Did he just seriously put 4 signet 25/30/0/0/15 build as an example of backstab damage ? Do you even imagine what would happen to said thief in any other situation then 1×1 vs clueless glassies with no situational awarness skills ?

It’s not even 25/30/0/0/15. It’s 30/30/0/0/10. Doesn’t even start with 15 initiative.

Auesis.7301:

I’m amazed at the absolutely ludicrous numbers being thrown around here. 8-10k Backstabs in sPvP? 14-16k in WvW? On what planet is this a regular occurrence?

Running a full Signet build that instantaneously melts between 45 second periods and gibbing upleveled people does not count as a regular occurrence. I’ve yet to see an sPvP video demonstrating those regular 8-10k hits either. Maybe against an Elementalist in a Berserker amulet after they’ve already been hurt badly and thus trigger some damage modifiers.

I’m amazed at the absolutely ludicrous numbers being thrown around here. 8-10k Backstabs in sPvP? 14-16k in WvW? On what planet is this a regular occurrence?

Personally, I think the best option is to revert the nerf to the damage (15% I believe) and then change the amount of registered attacks to 4 instead of 8 in PvP. 8 never made sense as there are only 4 strikes in the flurry, and this means Retaliation procs twice as much as it should.

shimmerless.4560:

Dual.8953:

Of all the Thief traits you listed, the only ones they’d miss would be Pain Response and Slowed Pulse. And those would only be missed by non-stealth Thieves due to thier limited cleansing options. What would you propose for them? (And the other three are viewed as more handicap then helpful)

I always thought a fun trait would be a mild Arcane Thievery on steal (i.e. you send a condi to a target and gain a boon, maybe depending on the condi itself).

I would like to see this functionality added to Mug (or replacing the heal) instead of a health trigger. Could rename Mug to “Reverse Pickpocket” or something

Who on earth said that Berserker is the meta because of Vigor?

Berserker is the meta because no PvE content produces any threat or requirement for anything other than more DPS and is composed of giant HP bars that should be removed as quickly as possible.

Excalibur.9748:

even tho it’s gonna be thief nerf this is good change still. ANET said we can play however we want, but zerk stat it too much in PvE. All stat combinations need to be good, that will make the game more fun since there will be more than one viable stat combination.

In a PvE context, reducing zerk stats will mean absolutely nothing. It doesn’t matter what you do to gear, organised groups are going to run the optimal gearset, whatever it may be, be it Rampager, Valkyrie or whatever post-patch, and the whining from people who get rejected from those elitist groups will continue as strong as ever. Why? Because PvE is too easy. Enemies don’t produce the kind of threat that warrant proper strategy – you just burn them down with active defenses to back you up. They hit so hard that Toughness is irrelevant, Reflects are overpowered beyond imagination and dodging is the ultimate mitigation. HP and Armor don’t even need consideration.

There needs to be a GIGANTIC overhaul to produce intelligent AI that counteracts physical stacking, Might stacking and ramps up condition threat, and doesn’t fall for cheap line-of-sight tricks. Only if enemy encounters actually become strategic can proper balance and not just “max DPS no matter what the set” be met.

Unfortunately, that would be far too much work for Anet.

Personally, I’m keeping my Berserker Ascended set no matter what. It will have to logically be the best DPS even if they reduce it a little, and that’s all that matters when PvE is this faceroll.

The translation to WvW, on other hand, IS a cause for concern. Conditions are already ridiculous over there, and reducing crit effectiveness will just amplify the problem. It’s not like Anet ever consider separating PvE and WvW anyway.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Interceptor.2653:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

The pre-Dec10 update was perfect with 33% chance and 10s duration.

Perfectly pointless to spec in, maybe. The 1s ICD killed the trait. What’s the purpose of a slow burn of Vulnerability stacks?

The new version at least allows you to get a lot of stacks out there quickly, which gives you something useful to do with it. SS is very good with Pistol Whip builds that have high crit chance; not just for the hit density, but also the cleave.

The difference is the base 10s duration that you can stretch longer with condition duration. It simply scales better even with the 1s ICD, which is negligible having 100% crit chance.

The current 6s base duration scales horribly even with condition duration items.

The 50% chance and the removal of ICD is nice, but 6s is just too low. 8s would have been reasonable.

Are you forgetting that the removal of the ICD allows an AoE spread of the condition? That’s why the Warrior version (which is 33% chance and 7s duration) is always taken.

A couple of seconds of 1 or 2 extra stacks on a single target pales in comparison to a few Pistol Whips when stacked.

It’s a fair amount of vulnerability stacking in a potential AoE spread. Any group comp can get 25 Might fairly easily – constant maintenance of 25 Vuln on multiple targets is a little more iffy so every little helps. It’s far better than Mug could ever be for an organised run.

Basically, if you’re not taking it, you absolutely should be. It doesn’t matter if an Engineer can stack more – Thief has better potential DPS and there are 5 members of a team. One person doesn’t have to be responsible for all the Vulnerability stacking. You’re all supposed to contribute in that regard if possible.

stof.9341:

Carighan.6758:

That’s not how balance has to be, though.
What if zerker setups were simply nerfed to no longer provide such a big advantage? Indirectly, too. By making it so that they cannot avoid a certain portion of damage, damage which more defensive setups could easily soak, but a berserker team will have to stop attacking and rezz each other instead?

So basically, you want zerk to be on par with speed/efficiency with tanky specs. So you want zerk to be high risk/high reward and tank to be low risk/high reward?

And on top of that, he also wants Warriors and Guardians to be THE definitive PvE classes, full stop (sacrificing much less EHP while maintaining damage output). Smart. /s

Really, how can anyone possibly suggest things like “unavoidable damage” or “flat-out nerf Berserker and buff Toughness”? Do you have ANY idea how badly that would ruin the status quo between the classes? If you just encouraged the use of defensive stats, then everyone would run a heavy armor class and keep offensive gear. Think for a minute. There are better ways to shake up the meta than that.

If only there were some sort of buff that prevented CC and wasn’t as restrictive as Defiant, for example, a duration buff that could be removed or situationally unremovable for an enrage stage of a boss etc, almost like a boon.

It could be called something like “Sturdy”, or “Stability”. Imagine if bosses utilised that instead. Nah, that would be crazy…

Travlane.5948:

Interceptor.2653:

^ Death Blossom and Cantrips with Signet of Malice. Give us a difficult one.

caltrops* i think u mean. play thief much? or is that some kind of sarcasm i havent heard yet?

anyway no that wont do it. maybe against 10 hammer risen that attack every 4s each. but u get 2 of each. 2 necro 2 ele 2 thief 2 hammer etc etc you will be taking too much dmg.

and nobody runs SOM with dagger/dagger unless they are putting a whole build around it. d/d is 98% of the time run for burst/spike dmg.

so after you waste 4-5 death blossoms then what? how will u finish the few you actually hit? and then how would u do the first hits on the other 5 or 6 u havent touched yet? did you plan on using scorp wire on all 10 and bringing them in like a GS guardian skill 5 binding blade? nah that would take about 110seconds exactly if u were quick quick quick.

so basically the example u gave was interesting but no. even if it DID work….guardian would have used 0 utils. well maybe 1? and only weapon attacks with no heal. thief would have to use EVERYTHING including dodges, evades, 7-8x as many attacks, lots of heal, and take about 2-3x longer bc he cant group them up.

interesting tho that you think a thief can do it as easily as a guard. id ask u to make a video but nobody on here ever does. ill make one but not until somebody else backs up what they say.

maybe they will learn how to combo with CANTRIPS ;0

I think you should probably not emphasise a mistype. I’ve done that a few times even with 5k hours on my Thief. These things happen. People are human.

May I ask, do you even have or play a Guardian to any serious extent, and how often do you think outside the box?

For one thing, Guardians are not all-powerful gods that can afk every encounter and put down amazing DPS in the process like you seem to think. Perhaps you’ve been WvWing against Cleric Guardians too much, but those guys are going absolutely nowhere against mobs any time soon.

Second, you do not need an AoE pull to stack some mobs together. You can just walk around a piece of terrain and et voila, everything has now ventured in to one place. Lower DPS than a Guardian just because of a lack of AoE pulling is absolute nonsense and you know it. At least, I hope so. Heck, you don’t even need terrain, you can just utilise positioning to manipulate chasing mobs such that they are closer together.

Sometimes, if I’m not running full Berserker 25/30/0/0/15 in PvE, I will have accidentally carried over my WvW build after forgetting to change it, which has full Shadow Arts investment. This alone is more than enough to annihilate packs of Risen without any problems at all. SoM condition builds aren’t even necessary.

Thief is one of the better classes for PvE. If you play it right, it’s easily one of the most survivable while also being insanely deadly. People need to stop looking at Soldier classes and screaming DEY DO EVERYTIN BETUR AMG.

On topic, I don’t think BP is necessarily overpowered. It’s only amazingly effective against D/D Thieves because Cloak and Dagger is the bread and butter of how they play and large amount of Blind heavily detriments that playstyle.

Basically, it has to be any of the following, AND NOTHING ELSE, or I quit:

- Not a single stat point is changed in DPS gear/builds
- Condition gear/builds and support abilities/gear buffed to match or come close to the potential of physical damage
- Dungeon encounters redesigned such that Control and Support are encouraged alongside damage but not replacing it, as well as emphasising co-ordination and positioning

You have to be VERY, VERY careful. If you just nerf DPS gear and encourage people to wear defensive stats somewhere, then Warriors and Guardians will be THE meta, because they can just afford to have more damage while having more passive survivability. It will be no better than the all-Berserker meta now. My Thief can only bring immense DPS and stealth skipping – you would push my class in to absolute obscurity if you just did that.

tldr; this had better be an incredibly thorough, coherent and well-thought out plan to equalise Damage, Control and Support while taking in to account the strengths and weaknesses of all classes. Otherwise, we’ll just be stuck with Soldiers, and Adventurers and Scholars will just be alts to pick cherries.

Bountiful Theft is anomalous in that it removes the boon and grants the same boon with a set duration to the Thief/allies, rather than just stealing it.

LS takes the boon outright, duration intact (thus has no benefit from +boon duration %). To find out for yourself, go fight some Dredge and wait for the gongs to fully buff them, then take their boons. It’s easy to see the effect.

In terms of making cross-class comparisons, all I’ll say is to go and check out some of the balance patch preview threads. The devs are not against making comparisons constantly with every single class and Jon Peters has done it numerous times.

It’s obviously me.

Why? Well, I’m silky smooth and blend like the air. Observe.

The notion that we would ever get a buff, ever. Ha.

It’s got to the point where I hope they nerf absolutely every single aspect of the class in to complete and utter uselessness, making the entire class irrelevant, stupid, pointless, worthless and a waste of code (well, whatever parts of the class aren’t that already).

Then, we can get a total rework.

Harper.4173:

Assassins in GW1 worked very well without stealth.

Because Thief has anywhere near as much versatility and lockdown ability as Assassin ever did before the hundreds of nerfs it also received.

Docherty.8372:

Reikou.7068:

Docherty.8372:

this is supposed to be a competitive game!

And in the competitive format of the game, stealth is fine.

No it’s not. It will never be fine in PvP combat, because most of us have better things to do than sit there and twiddle thumbs for 50% of every combat – like wash the dishes, or walk the dog, in fact – there is some drying paint I need to go watch.

I can tell you have literally never set foot in non-hotjoin sPvP with another Thief in the lobby. Ever.

Stealth is beyond worthless as a mechanic in sPvP. Any Thief that takes traits for it and uses it to even a slight amount doesn’t deserve to be in tournaments for any reason.

Amaterasu.6280:

I don’t know how many times I’ve done 49 with heavies and they die way more often than I do – simply because they need to melee.

They die more often because they are not very good at what they are doing, not because of the necessity of melee. Both my Thief and Warrior are exceptional with full melee setups. Just because you’re standing out of range of anything that could be dangerous to you doesn’t mean those in the thick of it are incapable of mitigating it. Aegis, Endure Pain, blocks, reflects, dodges, invulnerabilities, Distortion and other things are not difficult to utilise properly.

Amaterasu.6280:

Now you’re telling me, you’re able to use s/p or d/p to it’s full potential and not die? I’d love to see that in a full fractal run at 49 because full potential to me means that you can put in a lot more damage AND survive without getting 1 shotted every mob. And I don’t mean SBing 90% of the time and whipping out s/p 10% of the time.

D/P, no. S/P + D/D, yes. I run 49 pretty much every single day without a ranged weapon at all and usually survive the longest because of the copious access to the best damage mitigation in the game (avoidance). The one exception is slotting another Pistol on top of the S/P swap to kite the Dredge Fractal boss around to the buckets. That’s literally it. Oh, and possibly the Molten duo if the rest of the group is too cowardly to melee the Berserker (in fairness, this usually needs a Guardian to pop the Aegis before the end of the attack chain).

Amaterasu.6280:

You forget that not dying is a huge help to your party, much more than a bit more dps. I’ve personally done very well with p/p and am usually the one ressing other party members, 90% of which, are heavies “at their full potential”.

“Bit more” is an understatement. You are the one ressing other party members because of a safety net that not only is unnecessary, but cripples your contribution as well. Of course you are going to be the one ressing people when you’re staying a mile away, out of reach of group buffs and other things and thus saving yourself putting in effort like everyone else at the harsh expense of most of your potential DPS.

There is literally no point in bringing a P/P Thief when we could just bring a Staff Elementalist who would basically do the exact same thing but with multiple times more DPS and AoE potential to boot as well as a massive amount of utility.

This isn’t even about min-maxing, the disparity is much larger than just optimisation.

Amaterasu.6280:

Clumsy.6257:

Amaterasu.6280:

Omg Casey.5973:

Amaterasu.6280:

Nope, I play full zerk at lvl 49.

Just learn to dodge and use your utiltiies. Don’t use melee weapons, you’re not designed to fight anything long term with them since everything 1-shots you. I hardly ever die unless I make a mistake.

Use p/p and s/b instead of a melee weapon. 8k unloads (10-12k with buffs via banner and might)

You should probably delete your thief if you can’t use it to its full potential, that being a top tier dps class.

You’re saying that I should delete my thief if I decide that it’s best to use p/p in fractals? “Full potential” you say…

Trolls will be trolls.

That’s exactly what he’s saying. Just because you “decide that it’s best” doesn’t actually make it the best. In reality your purposely halving your damage to make it easier on yourself. If you not going to play the class to its fullest potential then go play an easier class that you can play to its fullest potential.

If you think that p/p = cutting thief damage in half then you have zero credibility to speak about anything thief related.

He’s right. 8k-12k Unloads? My Pistol Whips and Sword auto-attacks flatten that single-target DPS like a pancake in a cleave, and don’t get me started on what D/D can do to that same single target in comparison, even unbuffed. Sorry.

Unless you want to argue Ricochet, so you can try and spread your already mediocre DPS with a 50% RNG modifier? That would really make me laugh.

P/P is only better than Shortbow against a single target. In absolutely every other circumstance, it is mediocre at best.

Zacchary.6183:

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

When I first heard about stealth in GW2 (I think it was long before Beta) it sounded more like this:

When you’re hit in stealth, you will be revealed for a short amount of time. Dots will reveal the stealthed character as long as he takes damage from it.

Wouldn’t this be a more interesting stealth-mechanic and more fun to 90% of the playerbase? What do you think?

You could very well have just said “delete thief” because this idea would make thieves a waste of coding.

This.

Unless you have a coherent, well-thought out plan to replace pretty much everything about the Thief profession to make it viable in WvW or sPvP without Stealth, including COMPLETE reworks to trait trees, utility skills and access to buffs and debuffs, changes to damage co-efficients and COUNTLESS other variables, then this is the dumbest thing I would ever see in any video game in my entire life, bar none (except maybe the whole thing about Master Chief blindly following 343 Guilty Spark and nearly destroying all life in the universe, or perhaps Team Plasma looking to stop pokemon battles by…battling with pokemon).

Thief, as a profession, would literally be a waste of space, time, effort and data. Even after my thousands of hours invested and legendaries acquired for my character, I would delete her on the spot and play a different game without ever looking back, and I would really hate to do that because I love this game.

Since we’re on the topic of making classes worthless, I’d be interested to hear any plans for Eles in sPvP. If this disaster of a thread bore any truth for any reason at any point in time, then we’d have perhaps one build left that would be mediocre at best. Eles don’t even have that at tournament level.