Guild Wars 2

Percentage needs to be raised in WvW and sPvP, but it really doesn’t need a buff for any reason in PvE, as it’s beyond broken as it is.

Something tells me that any significant amount of strong Retaliation will tear this build to ribbons. The hit volume is enormous.

1) Blocks are perfectly fine, the deciding factors are what they cost and what the extra effects are, as well as the context of what other skills are available to the same set and what they cost/do. Blanket “x is bad” or “x is bad because y, always” statements are just unhelpful. You don’t exclude entire elements of a game’s systems to a class because of a blanket assumption. That’s not how game balance works.

2) Trying to apply reality concepts and proper reasoning to a game where Greatswords are used as ranged weapons, Warriors can send other people flying 15-20 feet by jumping up to thigh height and stomping the ground (which would require the lower leg strength and momentum equivalent to a house-sized boulder at terminal velocity), a slow swing of a hammer can launch someone of equal size to the user well over 20 feet, a well-placed arrow from a seemingly ordinary bow and wielder somehow has enough momentum to carry the victim half a football field away, et cetera et cetera. Just don’t bother.

The only legitimate concern is how it looks in-game, animations, idles and so on.

Sandrox.9524:

Thief cant have block skill tough,it will be too OP since we use intiative.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Nine-Tailed_Strike

4) – Shadow Riposte (4 initiative)
Block the next attack and retaliate with a weighty slash, weakening foes in front of you. Regain initiative if not attacked.

Damage: ~600
Weakness: 6s
Range: 150

5) – Javelin (3 initiative)
Hurl your sword to the target location with increasing velocity, crippling foes it passes through before it hits the destination. Deals more damage to targets further along the trajectory. Cripples for longer further along the trajectory.

Damage < 300: 400
Damage 300-600: 450
Damage 600-900: 500
Damage > 900: 550
Cripple < 300: 3s
Cripple 300-900: 5s
Cripple > 900: 7s
Combo Finisher: Projectile
Range: 1,200

-> Flashing Blades (4 initiative)
Shadowstep to the thrown sword, blinding foes at the destination.

Blind: 5s
Radius: 120
Range: 1,200
Breaks stun

Sword MH:

Eagle Eye (5 initiative)
Twirl and evade, attacking in rapid succession at foes around you while reflecting projectiles.

Damage (4x): 900
Combo Finisher: Whirl
Evade: 1/2s
Range: 130

Dagger MH:

Float (2 initiative)
Bounce back, evading attacks.

Evade: 1/2s
Combo Finisher: Leap
Range: 300

-> Sting (3 initiative)
Pounce forward, dealing heavy damage with both weapons at once to adjacent foes to your target. Each hit returns some endurance.

Damage (2x): 800
Endurance gain (2x): 10
Combo Finisher: Leap
Range: 450

Pistol MH:

Explosive Powder (5 initiative)
Prep your sword against your pistol. If attacked, block and shoot through the resulting sparks, igniting them and burning foes in front of you. Cancels if Blinding Spark is used. Gain initiative if not attacked.

Damage: 250
Burning: 3s
Block: 1s
Combo Finisher: Blast
Range: 450

-> Blinding Spark (2 initiative) (cancels Explosive Powder)
Drive your sword against the barrel, blinding and lightly burning foes all around you with the resulting bright sparks.

Burn: 1s
Blind: 6s
Combo Field: Light (lingers for 3s)
Radius: 300

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Auesis.7301:

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Introducing – “Exhaustion” mechanic
What do you guys think?

RIP PvE Thieves.

Seriously, do you have any idea how much this would COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY RUIN EVERYTHING? I’m not one to exaggerate, either. I would delete my character and re-roll to main Warrior in an instant because it would be made absolutely worthless.

Can you be more specific on how it would be “absolutely worthless”?

Keep in mind that this is just an idea that can later on be tweaked and balanced so the numbers can be ignored for now.

Because almost ALL high-end Thief play relies on repeated skill use to get utility or DPS. One of our redeeming factors (highest DPS in the game on bosses) comes from using the Backstab rotation over and over ie. hitting C+D lots of times in a short time frame, followed by spamming Heartseeker under 50% HP. Keeping the team safe from hard hitting trash mobs in Fractals requires repeated use of Black Powder in a short time frame. Using stealth tactics (one of our greatest assets) requires repeated use of Cluster Bomb inside a Smoke Screen as half of its utility (the other half being Shadow Refuge or Blinding Powder half-way through the stealth run). Oh, and that Cluster Bomb spam? Centric to another of our massive bonuses – access to the most Blast Finishers. P/P’s main ranged DPS is repeatedly spamming Unload. S/P’s greatest self-sustain and DPS asset when doing things like soloing dungeons or fighting dangerous groups is spamming Pistol Whip. If you were to use a PvE condition build, spamming Death Blossom would be a main feature to maximise potential.

Unless you tweak the numbers you have to the point where they might as well be not implemented at all, this will break us completely. Potential DPS will sink FAR below other classes, utility will be split in half and ALL redeeming qualities to a speedrun group will be lost.

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Introducing – “Exhaustion” mechanic
What do you guys think?

RIP PvE Thieves.

Seriously, do you have any idea how much this would COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY RUIN EVERYTHING? I’m not one to exaggerate, either. I would delete my character and re-roll to main Warrior in an instant because it would be made absolutely worthless.

Arenanet are obviously not willing to have serious splits between game modes, so you keep this PvP-centric change 50 million miles away from my game. Kthx.

Trouble is the possible combinations of P/x are in direct competition between direct damage and condition damage specs. The main-hand skills will NEVER work well for both sets. I think the only real solution (though not feasible) is to branch off P/P and P/D in to 2 completely unique sets of weapon skills, with different auto-attacks to suit each combination. You could easily apply that logic to most main/off-hand combos for most classes, but again, that kind of change is just not feasible.

I love Initiative. All classes should use weapon skills in this manner, rebalanced to work with the use of 2 weapon sets and simply renamed to something like Energy, sort of like GW1 and early GW2 but one step further.

I’m surprised nobody has yet mentioned the large amount of AoE poison that can be placed over points, and then optionally blasted for Weakness. Personally I’ve found this element to be a rather excellent one in our repertoire.

Honestly, I would switch around your traits for every encounter when applicable. Now that you can do it for free and on the fly, I’ve become addicted to doing this to suit every possible variation of fight I come across when soloing dungeons.

This is one example. I change my traits for pretty much everything. You can also see me experimenting with the new Critical Strike trait. It is very, VERY useful as compound healing with other sources when soloing. That being said, always take Executioner instead when you can.

I use Night (or Slaying) + Force, and for consumables, Slaying potions (or Sharpening Stones if there is no potion) and lifesteal food.

I know this feeling.

"lol hs perma stealth noob l2p proper game"

*is using stealthless S/D spec*

I find it a little weird why there is any discussion considering you have yet to die from something that seems OTT to you? How can it be OTT if you still didn’t lose to it?

I find pretty much any Warrior build that uses most sources of passive health regeneration extremely annoying to fight but I still find ways to kill them all the same. I have no right to complain in that sense. Annoying =/= imbalance. Same with evasive Thieves. It’s just swatting an angry wasp.

If you do this, then change the system so that only one stance can be used at a time. Using a second stance overwrites the first.

You can’t be in two different stances in a martial art at the same time unless you have 4 legs and 4 arms.

I’d prefer it just being the boons, honestly.

Kincaidia.3192:

Auesis.7301:

http://www.gw2db.com/items/64883-experimental-remnant-s#c1

This is WAY cheaper and almost as effective.

what is this?

8% damage while moving, 1s28c for 10 minutes.

This won’t make much of a difference in PvE. There is very little in the way of dangerous CC, and if there was, your utilities will always be enough.

Necro’s access to burning was/is very strong because they have amazing condition coverage. The addition of Burning just sends all the condition damage that Necro could already do even higher.

Engi’s condition coverage has always been lower than Necro as a default and burning has been a staple of the coverage that it CAN provide. Nerfing it would severely weaken condition-based Engineer builds FAR worse than nerfing it on Necro, perhaps putting it in to unusable territory.

The comparisons you are making are totally unfair.

http://www.gw2db.com/items/64883-experimental-remnant-s#c1

This is WAY cheaper and almost as effective.

Lyssa has fallen out of usage in high-end play. It’s just not worth it anymore. Hence, BV isn’t as advantageous as it used to be. Both TG and DS have seen uses.

Well, firstly, immobilise isn’t a stun. Secondly, teleports are not physical movements that could possibly fall under restrictions of immobilise AND they don’t remove the condition, so even when they teleport they still won’t be able to move afterwards unless they cleanse the condition. How in the name of all that’s holy can you argue that a skill like Blink or Shadowstep is an actual bodily movement? IT ISN’T. Hell, Blink is even in a category called “Manipulation”.

Another “complaining for the sake of complaining” thread. Nothing to see here. Just a bunch of blubbering morons as usual.

As the title suggests, there was a deeper issue with my CA than first thought, and still is. When a player selects “Play Now”, they are very regularly thrown in to my custom arena instead of the many servers like “Server 001”. My CA is considered, by the system, as an official server that they can dump any random hotjoiners.

I was wondering if anyone else has ever had this problem and if you managed to prevent this behaviour with some sort of settings change that wasn’t just slapping a password on it. I’d like to give anything a try before the devs get around to fixing it. Essentially, the only way I can prevent random joins is to throw the settings completely out of whack of what a normal match would be, in such a way that is totally undesirable.

Erm, with 5 Deadly Arts a Backstab Thief can already apply poison. There is literally nothing different.

Complaining for the sake of the complaining. Seriously, Krait on a power build, rofl.

You can see the effects of the new traits in these as well.

Enjoy, and I’m happy to answer any questions!

It doesn’t have higher damage on a single target. Even without Revealed Training, you have Kleptomaniac, Opportunist AND 15 Initiative to start off a boss fight, making the 1 initiative saved per skill completely irrelevant. Totally spamming PW is doing it wrong anyway since the majority of long term DPS is going to be the auto chain. You will easily be able to maintain First Strikes with zero effort with a Backstab rotation in that setup. The Vuln stacking matters little when CnD gives 3 stacks and dagger attacks extremely quickly, actually giving more sustainable Vulnerability than Pistol Whip spam on a single target boss fight.

Short answer, D/D rotation IS significantly more DPS on a single target than S/P under all circumstances. Anything said to the contrary is a lie and ignorance to hard numbers. S/P is for multiple target fights. You should only be using it on single-target encounters if you struggle to stay alive and need the evades or synergy with SoM. Otherwise, you’re wasting valuable DPS.

inb4 Fortus arrives.

On-topic, it’s all fairly good advice but to add:

These are the ways Thief can enter stealth and how each one can be combated:

1) The D/P combo (Black Powder -> Heartseeker). If this is being used offensively, you will be hit by the blinding shot (unless you block or blind him/her first), but you can very easily prevent them from utilising this combo to escape (when they’ve detargeted you and are trying to run) by CCing them before or during the leap. My Mesmer takes Power Lock around everywhere in WvW for this reason.

2) Cloak and Dagger. This has a unique and easily spottable telegraph. Block/blind or dodge this and they’ve lost 6 initiative, half of their global resource (or 40% with 15 Trickery). Avoiding this one skill puts a LOT of pressure on a D/D or P/D Thief and forces them to use other methods to Stealth if they have any to recuperate lost initiative, putting the ball in your court.

3) Blinding Powder. Instant cast, not much that can be done about this, but remember that they will not have moved anywhere so you have an idea of where they are.

4) Shadow Refuge. Explained in the OP.

5) Hide in Shadows, the heal. This has an obvious cast and as such can be interrupted with any CC available fairly easily.

6) Last Refuge (Blinding Powder at 25%). If this procs, the Thief is probably dead already, but follow same idea as (4).

7) Smoke Screen + Heartseeker combo. This is much more rarely seen due to other utilities being more essential, but if it happens, CC (kind of a recurring theme).

8) Shadow Trap. All trap casting animations are identical and obvious. It shouldn’t be difficult to just not trigger it.

Same as Ascended, all Berserker.

For soloing certain parts of some dungeons etc, it’s good as compound healing along with Signet of Malice and lifesteal food. On its own, not so much.

Maybe, possibly? I heard it was fixed with anecdotal evidence, but haven’t tried using it myself.

I bought a starter kit for a custom arena today to practise with guildies. It was working just fine for a while, until a few hours ago. I’ve messed with the settings as much as possible, but even with Starting Players: 1, no reserved slots, no restrictions of any kind, we CANNOT get a match to start with just the 2 of us.

If I can’t use my arena within 30 days I’d at least like my gems back.

I bought a starter kit for a custom arena today to practise with guildies. It was working just fine for a while, until a few hours ago. I’ve messed with the settings as much as possible, but even with Starting Players: 1, no reserved slots, no restrictions of any kind, we CANNOT get a match to start with just the 2 of us.

I don’t particularly feel happy with my 1600 gems being wasted with every passing day until this get fixed.

Anyone else have a solution to this problem or did the patch just break the whole thing completely?

Equipment: 1:30
Core Traits: 7:39
New DPS Rotation: 15:38
Shadow Arts/Trickery Explanation: 17:10
FGS/LH Explanation: 24:05
Consumables: 27:22
Utilities: 30:00

Quick note: Why don’t I use Bloodlust? Same reason I don’t take Slaying weapons that I explain in the beginning of the video. That and I enjoy having flat damage bonuses over a gradual DPS increase throughout the run, even if it becomes slightly higher than the flat boosts. This is pure attribution to laziness. If you want Bloodlust, as you will end up with higher DPS, take a weapon with it. That’s just a matter of my personal taste and laziness to not take one. Also, inventory space for loots. I’m not gunning for world records, but if I was, I would take one.

“Core” build can be found with most details here:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vYAQRAoY8al8Mp6pNOxwJ0PJRs9YnAgnaPwJAAAA-zwBBYfFRjm8LQUBLjOzsIasFXFRjVXDT5iIqOAwBwv9tv9tv/+7vP/8zP/8z73f/93f/tMA6jB-e

Some re-iterations:

Stick with 6/6/0/0/2 for everything except boss fights that last over around 25-30 seconds where you are using D/D. Then swap to 6/6/2/0/0. Experiment with how your dungeon groups perform to see when each setup is best for you in each situation. This is the joy of being able to swap builds at any time with just a few clicks.

With FGS, take Improvisation and Revealed Training. Use Stealth skills to get yourself Revealed during FGS #3/#4. If you know you will be damaged during the process, and thus lose your Scholar bonus, do not use Hide in Shadows. Keep Signet of Malice to ensure you have your Scholar bonus active during your attacks. This will end up as a better trade-off.

With LH, take Dagger Training and Improvisation. An alternative, if you can combine combo fields correctly and your group is organised, is to take Improvisation and Revealed Training, plant Smoke Screen and blast it as you attack to get constant Revealed. However, in most cases, it will be difficult to continuously access the field. This requires lots of communication.

New DPS rotation with 6/6/2/0/0: C+D, Backstab, Auto #1/#2/#3, repeat. After 50%, begin using Heartseeker. To get lots of powered-up Heartseekers, plant Smoke Screen or trigger Blinding Powder when appropriate, use them to land a free Backstab and continue to Heartseeker while Revealed.

Food:

With Truffle Steak Dinner and Signet of Agility, you will already be in excess of 100% crit chance with Fury and a Discipline Banner (if above 90% health and flanking the target) but the Power is more easily accessible at all times. Dragon Breath Bun is a cheaper alternative that I like to stick with regardless. Sharpening Stones or appropriate Potions for regular dungeons, Skale Venom for Fractals. Lifesteal food with compound healing from Signet of Malice is very large. Seaweed Salad or Sweet and Spicy Soup are most definitely better choices, but go for stupendous prices and unless you actually are gunning for a world record, do not waste all your gold on those.

Happy to answer any questions!

Okay, but then you have to make Invulnerability skills, Distortion and Stability disallow stomping too seeing as any other class I play has a much easier time stomping with any of those mechanics and I don’t have to deal with pathetic health and armor while I’m at it.

That is the only fair course of action and then, because of your blind, stupid hatred, you’ll have left Mesmer in a pitiful state as a consequence. Congratulations, whiners.

Seriously, the amount of bias against Thieves just because they are Thieves is disgusting. Insipid garbage.

Full Berserker, Keen Observer, Side Strike, Signet of Agility, Discipline, Spotter and Fury puts you at 102%. You don’t need Assassin or Precise Infusions or Accuracy Sigils.

Whether you like them or not, any trait that uses an internal cooldown has absolutely no method to track it like you can with weapon/utility skills. Sigil/Rune cooldowns have their problems too (but less problematic than traits that take up a lot more of a build), but this is my suggestion for traits.

-The icons currently used for Empower Allies, Spotter etc. should be replaced by icons that have the Power, Precision etc. icons from the Hero menu.
- The old icons that contained trait numbers are now associated with traits like Hard to Catch or Moment of Clarity. They appear on the status bar when they trigger, and when they tick and eventually disappear, they are ready to trigger again.

For example:

- You get hit by a CC while using Hard to Catch
- HtC triggers and you are teleported
- An icon with [X] (it is the 10th trait) appears on your status bar with a 30s timer
- After 30s, the [X] icon disappears and HtC is ready to trigger again. It flickers as it’s about to vanish like every other status.

I think this will go a long way to enable ICD traits to be used more purposefully in combat. Thoughts?

Some information that people may/will want to know:

Name: Kaila Mistblade
Rank: 40
Champion Title: Yes
TA position: 443 as of this post
Hours played on class: ~4,000 (including PvE, WvW and sPvP/tPvP. Impossible to tell what the actual split is).
Times available: Every day from around 2-3pm BST onwards
VOIP: Currently use both Teamspeak and Mumble, but am open to using other clients if a team uses something else.

Build:

Have stuck with S/D + SB (Force/Air + Fire) for the past year and beyond, it’s by far my favourite. Current build is 10/30/0/30/0 : III / VI VIII XI / III VIII XII with Berserker’s Amulet and Lyssa runes.

Lyssa is subject to change based on how the feature patch messes with all of the Runes in the game.

Acrobatics line is subject to change depending on how I can utilise the new GM trait. I already have a good use in mind for it to substitute the loss of Lyssa Stability stomps (namely C+D -> Mug -> Reveal) but still unsure how useful it will be in the long run until I get to test it properly.

Playstyle:

Roamer, obviously. Focus on decaps and high priority targets in team fights.

Any teams can whisper/message me in-game or send me a PM on the forums. Thanks in advance!

Thieves are my favourite targets in WvW while on my Engi. I have never lost to one. They melt under my condi pressure almost instantly and Backstabs can barely make a dent in me. Easiest class to slaughter except for Ranger.

There is absolutely zero need to put weapon names in the title. It’s not impressive in any way, shape or form. It might have been marginally cool 2 days after launch, but not now.

+1. Just remove the stun or morph it in to a different slowing condition that doesn’t prevent escape. It’ll be fine then.

You can get a whole Sword attack chain off while Revealed. In PvE, S/D could well be the new damage meta if you take full advantage of the 200 Power that the main Dagger DPS (Backstab) cannot. The whole Dagger rotation (including Backstabs) is slightly higher than Sword atm, but the 200 Power might tip the scales. Some theorycrafters should get on that.

Travlane.5948:

Zacchary.6183:

Holy kitten…..

They actually made took my idea and gave bonuses to reveal.

LMAO! Resilience of Shadows is a big middle finger to the people who keep complaining about the thief profession. Now every thief and their guild is going to be running it, even the part of the thief community that refuses to use stealth.

giddy all over the place

I 10% forgive you anet. Keep it up!

buuuuuuuuuut its useless :/ who would take that over shadow rejuvenation. 450hp per sec stealthed 100% guaranteed vs 50% less dmg if u may or may not get hit.

Err, me. It’s actually 323 with 300 Healing Power from the tree. You can get perma-normal Regen instead (though it is weaker) so you don’t have to be in Stealth to benefit from it but then you will be able to use things like Blinding Powder to MASSIVELY reduce an incoming Backstab/Eviscerate/Fire Grab and so on, or just to turtle lots of smaller attacks coming your way, or to res allies in Refuge much easier (they take 50% less damage too). S. Rejuv heals you for more to replenish damage. Resi. of S. is for reducing that damage in the first place with the possibility of some weaker Regen to go alongside and includes support for allies (you could also give them Regen if you wanted to). If you use Hidden Killer but still have a sizeable crit chance, the new CS trait basically goes hand in hand with this.

People are heavily underestimating how much of a reduction 50% is. We had Protection in beta and it almost broke our class completely.

^ Pretty much that. I’m a better “tank” than any other class simply because I can avoid everything from a boss even with permanent aggro, leaving everyone else to heal up or whatever.

Permanent blind/weakness and stealth skipping counts as support. Offensive support, but support nonetheless. Stealth ressing would obviously be defensive support.

AikijinX.6258:

FINALLY I CAN SPEAK.. Banned from forums .. again. 0_0.. Anet didn’t like me speaking about their Nike sponsored Warriors D; .. Anywho..
I think people are underestimating the power of theory crafting. I for one am excited about these new traits. I for one already have builds and sets to accommodate the new traits. They just need to be tested. I will post when and after i deem it suitable for WvW.

Me too. Already have a WvW build that incorporates 2 of the new traits that I’m excited to test.

I think people are also forgetting that YOU CAN CHANGE YOUR SPEC FOR FREE, ANYWHERE, ANY TIME when we get these traits. That is a far more powerful thing than you might think. You can tailor yourself to every single encounter. I’ll be swapping like crazy.

The +200 power is also going to throw us to the top comparative DPS in PvE easily (after considering group buffs etc). If you’re not backstabbing a boss (when you’ll have Revealed all day) you can take S/D at trash fights, forget about the daze and just keep up Revealed and cleave everything to death with crits that go way beyond anyone else.

The heal on crit would be a total monster in some areas like at FotM 50 against the Grawl Shaman and his adds. Signet of Malice is almost enough to wipe out all the adds yourself without going down, but I usually take Withdraw instead because the immobilises can ruin you. That trait would send it over the edge and make you completely invincible in those periods. And the best part about that? You don’t have to sacrifice Executioner for any other circumstance in your run.

The Shadow Arts trait, I’ll talk about that when I try the build I have in mind (that also incorporates the healing trait).

Acrobatics, can’t see much of a use for it unless you REALLY want to hunt Shocking Aura Eles or Hammer Warriors with a 10/30/0/30/0 S/D build.

Trickery, good complement for a condi build that doesn’t use Perplexity (debatable whether you would swap out SoH with Perplexity).

What kind of INSANE Guardian is going to take both 30 Zeal and Radiance? One that wants to collapse dead instantly, that’s what.

Condi Guardians do not, will not and can not exist. They rely on one condition and one condition alone, which can be cleansed without any effort at all. The very notion is laughable and you should be ashamed for promoting it.

Warriors are not going to replace Merciless Hammer (along with Cleansing Ire and Dogged March) for that trait. That’s where most of their damage comes from.

Eles can’t accomplish much while in Earth attunement. They’ll turtle for a little while with some mediocre or easily avoided attacks but they will not be a threat in that state. As soon as they come out of the attunement to counterattack, you can go ham again.

Looking at the feature update pages, it seems the main combat/balance-orientated ones are all done. New weapon skills/existing weapons for more classes was the biggest thing I would have been excited for. Shame.

Deadly Arts: Revealed Training – Gain up to 200 extra power when you are revealed, based on your level

Critical Strikes : Invigorating Precision – You are healed for a % of the strike damage dealt. The current rate is 5%. Does not work on ambient creatures.

Shadow Arts: Resilience of Shadows – Stealth you apply reduces 50% incoming attack damage. Does not work against condition damage.

Acrobatics: Assassin’s Equilibrium – Gain 1s of stability when you are revealed. This is a high skill cap trait as you need to use it when you see a stun/daze coming and attack first to reveal yourself and gain the stability.

Trickery: Bewildering Ambush – Stealing applies 5 stacks of confusion for 5 seconds.

Ready Up Episode 8, just finished. Those were for Thief.

I…I just can’t.

Deadly Arts: 200 power when Revealed

Critical Strikes: 5% of critical damage heals you

Shadow Arts: Stealth reduces damage by 50% (which stacks with Protection)

Acrobatics: 1s of Stability when you get Revealed

Trickery: 5 stacks of Confusion on Steal for 5s

Forgive me, I don’t have the names. But…kitten .

So uhh…these new traits.

Wow. WOW.

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW

Recalibar.6482:

Adam.4103:

The DPS meta will remain, all this will accomplish is annoying people for no good reason.

Consider a powerful potion. +10% outgoing damage, -10% incoming damage. What advantage does that give you?

A total of a 20% advantage. -10% damage is -10% advantage.

Zerkers will hopefully no longer be meta, but only time will tell. I welcome some godkitten diversity.

Lol, you think this will make any difference whatsoever. Cute.