Guild Wars 2

One dropped, one bought.

Just what my Ele needs! Further overcharged Cantrips and even more passive healing!

I’m not looking for more damage, although it would be welcome. In fact, simply messing with numbers is NOT enough. It’s a fundamental problem with the Thief as a PvE profession as it stands – it doesn’t do anything exceptionally well EXCEPT damage, and the damage isn’t exceptional enough to make it preferable to a Warrior, who has to put in almost no effort to do the same damage in an AoE spread while also being heavily armored and healthy. So instead of damage, I want it to be able to do more stuff that’s actually useful to other team members – simply making all the benefits of Shadow Arts a small AoE effect on allies would be a start eg. cleansing conditions from allies near you while you’re in stealth WITHOUT having to stealth them with the pathetic access to stealth utilities. Same with the regeneration trait, or the grandmaster version. Buffing traps to the point that they are worth a kitten ie. not having to run in to the middle of a group of mobs to make Needle Trap work on more than one of them. Increasing venom share range and perhaps reducing the cooldowns on the venoms slightly (40 instead of 45), or even applying more Vulnerability per Skale Venom charge. Give boon steals to Leeching Venoms (against Dredge…epic win). Anything. ANYTHING to make it a truly desirable PvE class. You can argue stealth ressing, but you’re not meant to be on the floor in the first place. I didn’t roll a Thief to be a medic. Nice-ish damage and ressing…there’s no depth to that, and with every patch reducing stealth’s effectiveness in PvE, it’s getting worse and worse in terms of the question – “why would you bring a Thief?”

tagnut.8621:

No.

More nerfs to come please

Observe the clueless whiner in his natural habitat.

On-topic: Yes, I don’t use S/P much anymore, but it makes sense – nerfing the wrong thing altogether, then nerfing what was supposed to be nerfed without re-buffing the original. Needs a reversal.

I currently have six level 80 characters, and Thief was my first and will always be my main character. I have found that in mostly Berserker gear and being on the offensive all the time, I have to put in a LOT more effort to remain alive than with other classes, and the payoff isn’t worth it. I go melee on everything – every single Fractal, ordinary dungeons, guild missions, everything. I also rarely go down – I guess I’m completely accustomed to PvE with Thief after so long (I put a silly amount of hours in to her). And yet, every time I switch to my Berserker Warrior, it makes me want to cry. Naturally hearty and tough and at the same time practically throwing out number porn at every turn with the push of a button. It’s frankly depressing how little effort I have to put in with my Warrior in comparison to my Thief, when both are designed for damage output and my Warrior completely outshines my Thief in every way imaginable.

I’m not giving up on Thief just yet, but in PvE, they need serious work to be relevant in a team environment. Venom sharing is sub-par, stealth is being reduced in effectiveness with each patch and we have hardly any naturally supportive traits. We have some mediocre boon sharing and 5 seconds of regen that we can give out with two utilities. Gee, I bet everyone wants us for that.

I feel like I’m just going against the grain for the sake of it at this point – there is no reason for me to be a Thief in PvE when I have a Warrior in reserve. It just feels like a portable “skip mobs” dispenser, and most people can run without your help anyways.

Yet another progress shot!

When the only prefix for the Scythe is Banana, you would think it would be obvious that it’s a prank. :P Not only that, but the auto-attack having a built-in Daze…lol

Araziel.7201:

I want to see someone with Chauncey Von Snuffles III.

Ask and you shall receive.

If you have Infusion of Shadow, it pretty much is.

WhiteRose.6934:

I think for once it’s time for thieves to have to l2p. This change has really separated the thieves who knew their class well from the thieves who abused a mechanic. Stealth was always meant to be used tactically, this 4th second forces you to actually have to plan your fights as opposed to just spam stealth. Besides, with the amounts of shadow steps and other tricks we have, that one more second really shouldn’t be the end of the world. Unless of course you were a bad thief.

I’ve always wanted to say this, but l2p

Uh, yeah, no. Laika just said it best:

Laika.8795:

EDIT: I say this with all sincerity, but anyone who says there is a tangible difference between the 3 and 4 second reveal in PvP when fighting against a thief is just experiencing a placebo effect.

Thieves can still troll you with stealth all day long and the extra second has made no difference to GC one-trick-ponies except ENCOURAGE them to do so more often, thus being WORSE for you. Had the original plan to apply Revealed every 3 seconds with no exception been implemented, THEN you’d have seen a difference. As it stands, PvE suffers immensely from terrible rotation synergy and is now unnecessarily awkward, making them worse for PvE than they already were, for no reason other than a pathetic attempt to balance for PvP, a failure in absolutely every regard.

I am sick and tired of clueless dolts who are only here because of PvP bitterness jumping in this sub-forum and pretending that they understand what’s going on with this update, when it’s in fact almost entirely a PvE problem and thus nothing to do with you.

Pyrial.2917:

Auesis.7301:

As long as an entire trait tree relates to the usage of stealth as a tool for staying power, stealth will remain a Thief mechanic.

If stealth were downplayed, then Shadow Arts would need a TOTAL rework to remain relevant. At the same time, other aspects would need to be seriously buffed for staying power, but on different grounds (being slippery instead of invisible). It would take a LOT of work, but if executed right, I would welcome it. Sadly, I don’t think it would be executed right. It would just be a total blanket nerf with horrendous compensation, and Thieves would be left face-down in the dirt while other professions can do what they do, only better. Such is the life of the rogue/assassin archetype in MMOs.

They already are face down in the dirt and the mechanic holding them back is stealth.

Perhaps I should re-phrase that – further face-down in the dirt.

As long as an entire trait tree relates to the usage of stealth as a tool for staying power, stealth will remain a Thief mechanic.

If stealth were downplayed, then Shadow Arts would need a TOTAL rework to remain relevant. At the same time, other aspects would need to be seriously buffed for staying power, but on different grounds (being slippery instead of invisible). It would take a LOT of work, but if executed right, I would welcome it. Sadly, I don’t think it would be executed right. It would just be a total blanket nerf with horrendous compensation, and Thieves would be left face-down in the dirt while other professions can do what they do, only better. Such is the life of the rogue/assassin archetype in MMOs.

Spiders Spiders Spiders.8043:

I do find it slightly sad that what started as a question about arenanets direction (or lack of) with the thief has ended up with a ‘im more pr0 than you’ kitten derailment.

Don’t be too surprised – this happens all the time. God forbid we try to be productive about the class and its future.

Kyran Foxfire.4139:

And then he proceeds to clear the stand, knocking even his own game box aside to make room for the SAB. That’s just too perfect for words.

I think it’s the sound effects at that moment that make it for me.

I could only imagine the frustration if Thieves went retro and had more Shadowsteps and access to Flashing Blades or Shadow Form instead of stealth…oh god, the QQ would be IMMENSE. Also, delicious.

Another progress shot!

I know what I’m spending my next 100 laurels on after I got Chauncey!

Curse my inability to be productive…

Like I said in that thread, if Thieves only had one skill that just caused the casting player to die, they would still be complained about by others.

Warrior sub-forums got a few posts recently, followed by a “off to browse other class forums”.

I’ve yet to see another post in any of the other 7.

This isn’t my work, just my character – you’d have to go to his website and commission one for yourself.

Considering that our current options are:

Sword
Daggers
Pistols
Shortbow

Daggers are a pretty big part of the option pool, main or off-hand.

That’s what I meant. Bit by bit is fine, but monthly…no.

They say that condition Thieves rely too much on bleeds, so they plan on diversifying condition access eg. more poisons and burns. They then nerf bleeding, as if to say “NO! BAD THIEF! STOP USING BLEEDS!” and give no alternative methods at the same time. That’s just a bit screwed up.

The “change bit by bit every month” approach isn’t working. Major overhauls are needed, not just for Thieves but for Rangers and Warriors (in sPvP), and NOW.

I got a piece commissioned from a freelance concept artist/illustrator (tcloreart.com), featuring my main character, Kaila Mistblade. I asked for something related to the Branded, because of reasons.

It’s not finished (just the main character’s upper half is mostly detailed but everything else is as it was in the initial sketch), so there’s a while to go until the full thing is done. However, I’m blown away already.

Picture 1) My character
Picture 2) The piece

I will continue to post updated shots as it develops!

Weapon: Scythe
Prefix: Banana

You can’t tell it’s a joke? :P

Came up with these – https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Thief-Off-hand-Sword-Ideas/first#post1741931

Although honestly I want one-hand only options and more types of weapon, more than OH sword.

There’s nothing complex about the skills I propose. In fact, #4 is identical to Spear #3, only using one strike instead of a flurry and #5 provides the same functionality as Mesmer Sword #3 without the clone and different end condition. S/S #3 functions like a controllable DB, D/S #3 isn’t in any way difficult to understand and P/S is again similiar to Spear #3 with extra end product. I have no idea how any of these skills are difficult to understand. At all. If I had never played the game before I would still be able to understand their uses. Sorry if it sounds arrogant, but I really am struggling to understand how they are in any way inaccessible to new players. In fact I’d say the blocking skills are easier for new players to understand than any other skills in the game.

I took a look at some of the updated skills – some stuff I’d like to say:

1) P/S #3 still doesn’t answer the question of why it exists. It’s closing distance to then re-open it by a smidgeon for no discernible reason. Pistol MH is a ranged weapon, and this skill is juggling a closer and an opener needlessly. Surely just getting more distance or preventing the opponent coming closer would be the sensible option? And again, knockback for any initiative skill is too much. It’s simply not a balance option – it’s in a much higher acquirable abundance than any other profession’s skills. The only way you could justify it is if you are rooted during the knockback like PW roots you during the attack animation.

2) Why does #4 apply bleeding? That only synergises with Pistol MH, and coupled with #3, this just leaves P/S in a rather circus-like state. None of the other sets benefit from it at all.

3) #5 needs to be removed or reworked completely from the ground up. A 2 second daze for 5 initiative, even 6 initiative, is insane. Not even a Mesmer can come marginally close to that. Simply not an option. Even removing the Weakness and bumping the cost to 6 initiative would still leave the skill in such an overpowered state that you would see it everywhere in all PvP. Tactical Strike is strong enough as it is, and that requires stealth. Simply putting it on the skill bar is…scary.

To answer the Cripple/Weakness question – that’s the point. You might have missed the effect of #5, however – once the sword is thrown, you are unable to access the Cripple part again until you use the chain skill (Flashing Blades) or wait the 10-15 seconds it takes for the skill chain to expire (like Infiltrator’s Strike or any other Shadowstep skill). You actually have MORE access to Cripple with S/D, as you can throw Dancing Dagger all day for a 5 second cripple each time, and if you have two targets, that’s 10 seconds of Cripple per target for 4 initiative. /S doesn’t even come close in that regard. When you can get Weakness in such hilarious abundance from using D/ autoattack with at least 15 Deadly Arts, or just something like Elixir Gun (it’s the autoattack AND applies bleeds), that’s not even an issue. In fact, that establishes a role for S/S even more – positional/damage control by the immobilisation, cripples, weakens and shadowstep movement. It has a focus, something that sets like P/P lack. In comparison to Confusion Mesmers or any other number of damaging condition builds, it’s tame.

I recognise that these are all just ideas (and so are mine), of course. The key to these ideas is to have a solid ground, however.

In that case, some questions I would bring up:

1) How does a Thief gain benefit from OH sword in these skillsets? S/P serves a face-to-face combat style well enough, and it has more utility to boot. All of the implied S/S skillset here simply applies direct damage and moves the player around, and a dual skill that simply applies some vulnerability doesn’t seem worth the effort. I know I’d never use it.

On top of that, a simple damaging projectile with no other purpose seems pointless when you have a gap closer on the next button. If you check my off-hand skills, you’ll see that they serve purposes – #4 being a defensive skill that both protects from immediate damage and reduces further incoming damage temporarily, and #5 provides short slows to approaching enemies and grants an escape mechanism with extra attached utility. They deal damage, but they are capable of serving a role aside from that. Within the skills I suggest, S/S becomes a stealth-less mobile damage dealer with defensive utilities that go beyond dodging, like reflection of projectiles and parrying – providing something unique to a Thief weaponset. D/S becomes a variant in that it doesn’t rely so much on staying power and mobility within battle, but on being slippery and landing spike damage at key moments, sustaining itself with endurance and evasion. Couple that with the auto-attack granting poisons to reduce healing etc. and you have a capable attrition fighter rather than a full-on duelist. P/S remains reliant on dealing damage at range, but with options to apply differing methods of condition damage while also being able to stand its ground and escape danger up close. Instead of P/D (bleeds and stealth only), it utilises bleeds and burns and becomes mobile instead of sneaky.

I think this is the problem I have with your skills – it’s fine to just have a heavier dagger, but it has to serve some sort of role aside from just damage, or it’s a totally arbitrary addition. It would be like adding a greatsword for Elementalists but then just giving it some variations of Staff skills. People would question what the point of it was.

2) What makes it worth swapping to for a Pistol user? Both #4 and #5 are variations of dagger skills, so D/S would give you two gap closers and a powerful projectile attack (which could be EXTREMELY over-the-top considering the ridiculous spike damage you can obtain) and P/S would give you two gap closers when Pistol MH is meant to be a distance weapon that utilises condition damage and not direct damage. Only S/S and D/S seem like they fit the swashbuckler criteria you’re going for (D/S going too far in that direction to the point of being OP, I think), as P/S has the same problem as P/P in that the skills are conflicting with each other, because they have different combat philosophies.

3) Breaking the trend and applying powerful CC abilities to initiative-based skills is a dangerous line to tread. There’s a reason that OH Pistol only gives a 1/4s Daze, and PW only gives a short stun, even giving a small delay before the next attacks. While other classes have no choice but to wait on their cooldowns (which are upwards of 15 seconds for powerful CC skills like knockbacks, and can only be lowered by 20% in traits), we have the ability to DRASTICALLY reduce our GCD by way of simply activating signets, taking initiative recovery traits like QR and more. It is simply too dangerous to make initiative skills more than situational and utilitarian. That’s why Heartseeker’s parameters were brought down rather quickly, and I still think it has too low of an initiative cost. Even at 6 initiative, having such a powerful skill is too much.

Josh Foreman.8250:

We have some crazy talented people in our cinematics department.

They’re crazy, alright!

I even found the inspiration.

The problem with these skills is that they really don’t give anything new. It just seems they are there for the sake of having an OH sword. Neither of the OH skills are really interesting or unique. Still, I’d love to see an OH sword at some point!

I’d also like to point out that Infiltrator’s Shot sounds scarily OP – knockbacks have sizeable cooldowns and low abundance for a reason.

Check my thread also – https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/Thief-Off-hand-Sword-Ideas/first#post1741931

Problems highlighted by devs in SOTG:

1) Thieves rely too much on one condition (bleeds) for condition builds, so they can get beaten easily by anyone with just one or two cleanses
2) They need more access to poisons and burns

Problems highlighted by forums and other places:

1) P/P is mostly useless, mediocre damage, no mobility, only useful as a gimmick
2) Body Shot is plain awful and is never useful
3) Vital Shot underperforms

Some things I came up with in the past half hour:

Pistol MH skills:

1) Vital Shot
Bleed your foe with a shot to the vitals.
Damage: 145
Bleeding: 6s (255 Damage)
Range: 900

Bleeds extended to the length of Warrior rifle bleeds along with damage almost matched. This means that the Thief variation has the advantage of firing faster (1/2 instead of 3/4), with the reduced range of 900. Since Vital Shot doesn’t actually fire as fast as it should, that needs to be looked at.

-> Sneak Attack (Now “Sabotage”)
Throw a tab of explosive powder at your target, detonating to burn adjacent foes.
Damage: 405
Burn: 3s (984 Damage)
Range: 900

This enhances condition builds (especially P/D) by varying conditions available.

2) Body Shot
Make your foe weak and vulnerable with a body shot.
Damage: 168
(5) Vulnerability: 10s
Weakness: 3s
Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile
Range: 900

Vulnerability duration extended to be worth something, and weakness added for additional utility along with reduced damage to the user.

P/P:

3) Unload (4 initiative, 1s cast time)
Somersault in your current movement direction while blasting your foe repeatedly with both pistols.
Damage: 86 (down from 101)
Number of Shots: 8
Evade: 3/4s
Combo Finisher: Physical Projectile (20% chance)
Range: 900

This provides mobility for the weapon set while also increasing efficiency of the main damage output via a higher firing rate (1s instead of 1.75s). Evasion occurs after the 1/4s initially spent in beginning the jump. Key benefit is the reduction in initiative cost. Damage per shot reduced by ~15% to compensate for that.

P/D:

3) Shadow Strike (now “Subterfuge”)
Jab your foe to rig them with explosive powder and shadowstep away, shooting to detonate it.
Damage: 101
Shot Damage: 168
Burn: 1s (328 Damage)

Animation is identical to Shadow Strike (dagger hand strikes opponent etc.), only the damage of the skill has been reduced for the sake of the applied burn. This means that the weaponset relies less on C+D spam for the stealth attacks and more on being able to apply bleeds and burns in various ways (as people using this weaponset will most likely be investing in condition damage).

This is all just some random stuff I quickly came up with, most likely flawed in some way. Go nuts.

Share your ideas too!

Depends – how good are you at landing Cluster Bombs (and breaking off the bombs at the last moment)?

Against packs, it’s very good. Single bosses, not so much.

I’d buy every single moderately expensive weapon, sigil, rune and armor piece from the TP. I would then create a new guild called “EA Games” and sell everything back for inflated prices while laughing maniacally as people are forced to contribute to my never-ending profit.

I would then strip naked, spawn legions of Boxes of Fun in LA and /dance forever, doing other stuff in the meantime.

This is a problem with all Thief-related teleports – they are meant to operate on the system that you have to be able to get to the destination on foot. It’s understandable with the “Shadowstep” labels, but when something like Shadow Trap exists with such a long range, it needs to be free from that boundary.

randomfightfan.4091:

1 dodge to get out of caltrops, 1 condition removal to take off all those bleeds. I’ve taken maybe 400 dmg and now most likely have the advantage.

And that’s the big problem with Thief condition builds. Nothing but bleeds. One-dimensional, underwhelming and easy to counter by anyone with two brain cells to rub together. Maybe we’ll see those promised extra poisons and burns by 2025.

Didn’t realise I had shots that included my shoulder-piece. Fits a lot better that way. Well…here they are. Whispers shoulders + boots, TA helm, rest T3.

Some things I’d just like to point out:

1) In the SOTG discussion, the devs stated that they felt condition builds were actually far too weak on Thieves, as they rely too much on a single condition (bleeds) and can easily be tackled by anyone with access to just one or two condition cleanses, so they actually want more burn/poison access. That was what I had in mind when I came up with it.

2) Like I said, numbers are placeholders. It’s possible to lower effectiveness of a skill and thus lower the costs. These are pretty much just thematic ideas, and the cost/damage/semantics can be worked out by someone who knows better than I.

3) When I say “Off-hand by themselves” I just meant that I was presenting them by themselves, not repeating them after every weapon (Pistol/Dagger/Sword) when elaborating further. I didn’t mean that Sword gets 5 skills by itself.

Thanks for the feedback!

Came up with these in the past 30-45 minutes. Apart from Javelin, the damage ranges (x-y) are just estimates of what it could be. The damage numbers are just placeholders, that I came up with by comparing to current Thief skills etc. Feel free to tear them apart, I’m sure there’s probably something wrong with them somewhere. Didn’t put much thought in to it, but they sound alright to me!

Off-hand skills by themselves:

4) – Riposte (4 initiative)
Block the next attack and retaliate with a weighty slash, weakening foes. Regain initiative if not attacked.
Damage: 400-500
Weakness: 5s
Range: 150

5) – Javelin (3 initiative)
Hurl your sword to the target location, crippling foes it passes through before it hits the destination. Deals more damage to targets further along the trajectory. Cripple for less further along the trajectory.
Damage < 300: 200
Damage 300-600: 250
Damage 600-900: 300
Damage > 900: 350
Cripple < 300: 3s
Cripple 300-900: 2s
Cripple > 900: 1s
Combo Finisher: Projectile
Range: 1,200

-> Flashing Blades (3 initiative)
Shadowstep to the thrown sword, blinding nearby foes.
Blind: 5s
Breaks stun
Range: 1,200

Now the dual skills.

Sword:

3) – Eagle Eye (5 initiative)
Somersault and twirl both swords, reflecting projectiles and evading attacks while damaging nearby enemies. You can move while attacking.
Damage (4x): 600-700
Combo Finisher: Whirl
Range: 130

Dagger:

3) – Float like a Butterfly (2 initiative)
Bounce back, evading attacks.

-> Sting like a Bee (3 initiative)
Pounce forward, dealing heavy damage with both weapons at once to adjacent foes to your target. Each hit returns some endurance.
Damage (2x): 500-600
Endurance gain (2x): 10
Combo Finisher: Leap
Range: 450

Pistol:

3) – Explosive Powder (5 initiative)
Block your foe’s next attack and fire a large cone of explosive shot that causes burning to foes in front of you. The momentum of the shot will propel you back, evading attacks. Regain initiative if not attacked.
Damage: 200-300
Burning: 3s
Evade: 1/2s
Range: 450

Ruby Orbs are the best if you take price in to account. Otherwise, Scholar or Divinity would be good, too. Sigil of Force/Accuracy are nice.

Einlanzer.1627:

Doomdesire.9365:

I was more worried to the nerf about caltrops, TBH.

15s to 10s does nothing in WvW(unless the dude stands in the AoE for 15 seconds), but has a pretty profound effect in PvE.

I am neither surprised nor bothered by the nerf to Caltrops, and here’s why – it has always been exceptionally strong for a low level utility skill. So strong, in fact, that it was almost mandatory for open-world play (leveling, etc.) and the bleed stacking + crippling effect was so good that it masked the problems with other skills and the profession in general.

So, while Caltrops took a hit, it’s a good thing, fundamentally. It means that it’s brought in line with other standard utility skills, it’s more thematically appropriate, and it will make it even more obvious how gimpy Thieves are in general and how much we need buffs in other areas.

As an example – the MH Pistol is really bad as a condition weapon, mostly because Vital Shot fires too slowly and Body Shot does nothing useful. Caltrops, in being such a good condition stacking skill, masked this inadequacy heavily and now it will be much more obvious how bad P/D (along with P/P really) needs looking at.

You’re putting far too much faith in the dev team.

Good job OP, made me laugh.

How anyone is taking this seriously is beyond me.

Adaneshade.2409:

As for PvE, backstab was never the best DPS option, so I fail to see what the drama is there.

Yet again, you’re not getting it. We’re not talking about backstab – we’re talking about EVERY SINGLE STEALTH ROTATION. Tactical Strike (the bread and butter of all PvE S/D builds that aren’t venomshare (an already pathetic PvE build)), Backstab, Sneak Attack (P/D builds are now even more pathetic than before from this), ALL OF THEM have been reduced in effectiveness by varying amounts unnecessarily.

When Thieves need serious work to make them more relevant in group instances and not nerfs, there is absolutely NO justification for any of those to be affected in PvE. None whatsoever. Being reduced in effectiveness in PvE AT ALL is evidence of complete ignorance on Arenanet’s part, ESPECIALLY when said changes have NOTHING to do with what they’re trying to fix.

Adaneshade.2409:

Auesis.7301:

Adaneshade.2409:

Or, F, they finally created a balanced class and the bads are simply QQing the loss of their ez-mode.

I’ve played thief as main since release and plan to continue to do so. Right now, I’m in a position where it’s 50/50 when I go into a fight that I’ll be the victor, where previously it was no contest (can I really claim to be so much better than every one else playing any other class at that point in time? no.) Our class was OP, it’s now balanced.

For the umpteenth kitten time, the patch did NOTHING for PvP. Revealed whether you attack or not WOULD have been the correct way to balance stealth properly in PvP or WvW, but that is not what happened. Instead, burst builds were completely unaffected by 1 extra second (hence still hilariously OP), perma-stealth ponies spamming C+D all day don’t even notice a difference and PvE stealth skill rotations got made more awkward and unnatural. That is all the difference it made. No “ez mode” was lost. In fact, all the increase to Revealed did is push more Thieves TOWARDS “ez mode” burst builds that wipe the floor with the enemy before the fight gets out of hand. The patch hit every aspect of the Thief EXCEPT the part it was meant to balance. Thief is still stupidly OP in PvP, and was just made ever-so-slightly worse in PvE for no reason whatsoever. If your victories have been literally halved by this patch, I question the integrity/consistency of your playstyle.

Don’t even try and defend this pathetic excuse of a patch. Arenanet had the perfect solution, to stop perma-stealth and C+D abuse for good, to transform stealth in to mechanic influenced by decision instead of abundance, and at the same time keeping the mechanic in line within all environments with very little repercussion. Instead, we got a last-minute switcheroo that fails in every single way to solve the original problems, and instead causes additional problems in completely unrelated areas of the game. They have failed in every regard on this issue, and there is absolutely no excuse for the sheer stupidity that has been demonstrated here.

I agree that the application of revealed should apply on breaking stealth in addition to the increased duration on revealed. Burst may still need to be nerfed, but I doubt it, never ran those cheese builds and never will. However, I’ve never encountered a burst build on any class that I considered to be a threat to me, so I fail to see how they are OP.

GCs kill other GC, but fail to kill properly built/played builds. Bunkers are the real issue atm for balance.

No. Not in addition – INSTEAD of. It’s clear that you don’t PvE much, because 4 seconds of Revealed botches up comfortable PvE stealth skill rotations for absolutely no good reason other than a pathetic attempt to balance PvP, which is completely unrelated, when Thieves are already sub-par in late-game PvE as it is. Mandatory 3 seconds of Revealed is more than enough to balance the playing field in PvP without messing up PvE players who didn’t deserve to be kicked in to the dirt.

I wish I could speak of PvE and PvP as separate entities, but I can’t, because Arenanet insist on streamlining balance changes between the two and thus breaking one or the other with every change.

Adaneshade.2409:

Or, F, they finally created a balanced class and the bads are simply QQing the loss of their ez-mode.

I’ve played thief as main since release and plan to continue to do so. Right now, I’m in a position where it’s 50/50 when I go into a fight that I’ll be the victor, where previously it was no contest (can I really claim to be so much better than every one else playing any other class at that point in time? no.) Our class was OP, it’s now balanced.

For the umpteenth kitten time, the patch did NOTHING for PvP. Revealed whether you attack or not WOULD have been the correct way to balance stealth properly in PvP or WvW, but that is not what happened. Instead, burst builds were completely unaffected by 1 extra second (hence still hilariously OP), perma-stealth ponies spamming C+D all day don’t even notice a difference and PvE stealth skill rotations got made more awkward and unnatural. That is all the difference it made. No “ez mode” was lost. In fact, all the increase to Revealed did is push more Thieves TOWARDS “ez mode” burst builds that wipe the floor with the enemy before the fight gets out of hand. The patch hit every aspect of the Thief EXCEPT the part it was meant to balance. Thief is still stupidly OP in PvP, and was just made ever-so-slightly worse in PvE for no reason whatsoever. If your victories have been literally halved by this patch, I question the integrity/consistency of your playstyle.

Don’t even try and defend this pathetic excuse of a patch. Arenanet had the perfect solution, to stop perma-stealth and C+D abuse for good, to transform stealth in to mechanic influenced by decision instead of abundance, and at the same time keeping the mechanic in line within all environments with very little repercussion. Instead, we got a last-minute switcheroo that fails in every single way to solve the original problems, and instead causes additional problems in completely unrelated areas of the game. They have failed in every regard on this issue, and there is absolutely no excuse for the sheer stupidity that has been demonstrated here.

timecookie.8570:

Goose.5196:

I am not talking about the general population of undead, I am talking about the Risen Abomination.

Risen Abomination is generic.

Champion Risen Abominations are not. They got given a massively powerful charge move that got faster and almost unavoidable with huge stacks of Frenzy. Apparently that’s been nerfed, I guess.

If the bags are taking up space…open them…

How is this an issue? Cutting in to your dungeon time? Opening those bags takes 10 seconds, tops. I would hate to have whatever schedule you’re running.

I knew that was what D/D would be, but S/P…that’s a big no-no then. I despise S/P and its playstyle. Nothing to do with ease of play or anything – I just hate the aesthetic and feeling of it. Used 30/30/0/0/10 with S/P for DPS in Arah p4 pre-nerf and…I could not see myself using it anywhere except for that and that alone. Just a personal taste thing. Something about it just isn’t fun. Shame.

Wait, they got nerfed? Aw. That was HILARIOUS.

With 0 Critical Strikes, all that would get you to 42%. That’s assuming that everything is Exotic, so your Ascended should give you more than that.