(edited by Avarice.2791)
Nope. Mechanics are mechanics, whether they wipe the raid or not. You can learn as much by failing a mechanic and then continuing forward as you can by failing the mechanic and stopping dead. In fact, you can learn significantly more, because you’re under less stress, which helps learning and attention to detail, you aren’t forced to repeat portions that you already understand, and you have a generally more positive outlook.
So, you create a raid that does not emphasis mechanics. Can you even fathom what this entails? Dungeon explorable modes had mechanics. They were negligible. People sat in corners and cleaved everything down. This would reflect in raids. If mechanics did not wipe you then there would be a work-around. A druid would simply heal through green circles. If you sat in a blue orb and got teleported you would simply run back. If a red orb as on the group you simple heal through it/knock it back. You are asking for reduced difficulty in raids because you enjoy the mechanics, yet you do not want to perform the mechanics. There is no way to nerf this content in the way you want without it being a stacking zerg-down fest. You think players will perform the mechanics because “they want to.” This is false. Groups will condemn that kind of behavior for the sake of clearing content quickly. Easy-mode raiding does not teach one to raid. Not at all. It teaches one the minimum effort they need to perform to accomplish the content that is presented. This has been shown over such a large period of time with players going from LFR to normal mode in WoW.
It really depends on the goal though. If the goal is to complete a hard mode raid, then you’d be right. If the goal is to gain access to the sort of lower-risk raiding experience I actually want, then playing the current raids would actually be counter-productive.
I literally have nothing to say to you regarding this if you think your time spent here arguing with EVERYONE on a subject that will NEVER happen is more valuable than practicing the content you are complaining about.
Again, I have ZERO interest in raiding in its current form, and have been perfectly honest about this repeatedly (and yet people still seem shocked each time). What I am interested in is content with the same mechanics as the raids, but with much lower risk of actual failure. The type of content I want is different than the kind of content you want, but why can’t we have both?
Yeah, you have zero interest in raiding but you are 100% interested in the mechanics it brings, BUT you want the mechanics nerfed to the ground so you can ignore them. Do you even see yourself typing?
I’m not saying “it’s ok for this story to not be for you.” I’m saying this story is a completely independent arc from the main story.
. . . and therefore I shouldn’t care that I can’t participate in it. I’m sorry, but no.
If you cared you would be participating in it, not wasting your time here. I’m sorry, but no.
Let me give you a simple example, Golem MKII world boss. Has three mechanics. One is that it creates a wide ring of ranged attack, not terribly dangerous. Another is that it hits the ground three times, tricky to avoid all three in melee, but they knock you down if they hit, third is the killed, a pattern of death fields that will almost inevitably kill you if you get caught in them for more than a second.
Let me give you a counter-example. VG has three main mechanics. One creates red orbs which are required to be knocked back out of the raid, not terribly dangerous. Another creates blue orbs which teleport players and cause damage, tricky to avoid in melee but they will cause some trouble. The third is the green circles which if ignored will almost inevitably kill your group if neglected. Do you see where I’m going here? Mechanics are not why you are successful in open world meta events. Numbers is why. If you had 20 people going up VG it would be extremely easy. Your point is definitely null.
I love this boss. Yes, you don’t have to master the mechanics of it, there are places you can range it down in relative safety, and if you do personally die, you can rez and run back in under 30 seconds. Losing is highly unlikely, I doubt I’ve ever seen it happen. But you can play better than “didn’t fail it.” You can choose to melee him, which increases the risk of falling significantly, You can attempt to dodge every single incoming attack, even if this isn’t absolutely required by the challenge. It is fun to try to avoid all of these attacks, even though failing to do so doesn’t mean wiping and having to start all over again. You may not enjoy that without the risk of utter failure, but you don’t have to, it’s not for you.
Let’s be real here. You’re comparing a world boss to raiding.
Do you mean from the people who are “insignificant forum posters?” Do they only matter when they agree with you?
Insignificant to the total population, yes. Insignificant on how every reply is directed to you? Completely different situation there big guy.
Exactly as legendary as current legandaries are. The value is in how cool they look, not in their rarity.
Indeed, and as I have stated I do not believe legendaries should be gated behind clearing a raid wing. It’s all speculation at this point though and arguing about it is pointless.
Yes, which is every one of the many times people have said to me “well you just don’t want to raid then,” I tell them “you are definitely right, I DON’T want to do the type of raiding you describe.”
So, you have no interest in raiding yet you wish to raid. Strokes chin hair
But what I do want to do is the experience I have described above, several times, where it has all the same mechanics as the current raids, but with much lower risk of failure. You can reread these paragraphs the next time you feel inclined to say “then you don’t want to raid,” because I’m sure by this point that this won’t be the last.
I’m going to break this down for you…reaalllll slow. If you do not wish to raid…. then perhaps you do not deserve to experience the content?
No, I understand that’s how WoW raids work, it’s one of the reasons I don’t play WoW, and I understand that’s how people want hard mode raids to work. I have absolutely no interest in that and never will, but I am interested in the sort of gameplay experience I described. You can have yours, and I can have mine, and we can both be happy about it.
When you say “hard-mode” raids you mean normal raids. There are no hard mode raids lol. Also, raids are not significant to WoW. This is how all raids work. Raids are not simple zerg fests. WoW is just a specific example.
You’d be amazed at your potential if you applied yourself. I know you don’t have time yet you are on these forums all hours of the day every day.
@STIHL
Even those barriers prove to be a challenge to those who consider themselves “casual.” Finding a precurser off of chance or purchasing one for 1000g alone is unrealistic to most player who put in less than 10 hours a week, not to mention the additional 1000g worth of mats required and the WvW, Open world, Dungeon, and other requirements. My point is that legendary armor is going to take some work. There’s no way to even understand how it’s going to work in it’s current state since there is little information on it so it is really pointless to condemn raiding or argue over it. It’s all speculation.
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Just wait till you get to Matthais.
Yeah, I have no idea where he was going with that.
Neither of you seem to have any idea where I was going with that, I suggest rereading it over and over until you get it right, you claim to enjoy that.
You’re arguing against creating incentive to revive dungeons. We have no idea where you’re going with this argument. You state the rewards are “fair” yet no one plays because the rewards are only “fair” then you continue to argue against creating incentive to participate in dungeons. You’re all suggestions. Let’s hear you’re idea. Honestly. You’re all over the place on this particular thread. Do you ever take notice how every single response after you respond to something is a response to you?
Just scroll through
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Raid
And find what you want to play. These guides include builds, armor stats, trinket stats, runes, sigils, food, utilities, rotation guides.
i think youre trippin over the fact of rewards. in easy mode it should take a lot more time to complete the legendary stuff for sure. i mean a lot more time. after a lengthy time period most people wont mind about easy mode acquisitions because the buzz will have faded. i can somewhat agree with the stance that the fact that they can be acquired at all via easy mode would devalue the armor, but there are lots of people who simply cant put in the time to learn them. were talking 1 hour a day casuals. most people when they see such high walls avoid the climb, and no one is saying thats right. whats being said is that its wrong that these walls drive people away completely, both to the players and the business.
What if… by putting in A LOT more time… you cleared the bosses as they are? I’m not talking Legendary Armor. If all easy-mode LFR raiding offered was legendary gear then I would be perfectly fine with that. It’s the fact that this idea for a zerg-tactic raid would require additional work from a very limited company.
Legendary armor is going to require a WHOLE lot more than simply raiding that most of these “casuals” will never obtain. It’s all speculation that is completely pointless to argue about.
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Forgive me for not getting into detail, there have been several of these threads and I went into my reasons for wanting easier raids several times before. The short version is, I enjoy the mechanics themselves, I want to test myself against them. What I do not like is the price of failure, that failing to pass certain mechanics will lead to my death, possibly the entire party wiping and having to restart. I have no interest in that part of it.
But… by creating a “LFR” style raid difficulty eliminates the mechanics. You get no mechanics. By not perfecting mechanics you are not experiencing them. The price of success comes at the price of many failures.
Well, you were the one that raised forum time in the first place. Why raise it if the two aren’t comparable? Surely you aren’t implying that raiding time is somehow of more value than forum time? They are both just time spent in a casual hobby, neither really provides any valuable public service or anything.
In regards to raiding, it should be obvious to you that time spent raiding is more valuable than time spent complaining. I was gently suggesting that instead of investing hours pushing this idea onto others, that you instead spend it researching and optimizing your role.
Yeah, I probably could, but not without either a lot of luck or a lot of time, and I am just not interested. Whether or not I could potentially clear the raid is irrelevant, what matters is whether doing so would require me to perform tasks that I have no interest in. The “try->die->repeat. . . . ->eventually succeed” gameplay is just a non-starter for me, I do not enjoy that, will never enjoy that, so offering that I could do that is not a productive use of your own time.
Then perhaps you are not interested in raiding or MMO’s in general. The reward that comes from raiding that everyone is speculating about (Legendary Armor) will take both a lot of luck and time. Perhaps, since you are unwilling to put forth an effort, that raiding is simply not for you?
True, but neither can you say that because people are complaining on the forums that they must represent a small number of people. I’m sure that as someone who raids, you encounter a lot of other people who raid, and this might give you an inflated view of what people spend their time doing in this game, but I assure you that it is not at the top of everyone’s list.
Actually, to start I raid with the same 9 people every week. Secondly, my point was to state that your idea that most players are casual is a fallacy due to the fact that the people who use the forums are a vast minority. It’s impossible for either of us to know. If you are right, Anet will do something about it. If you are wrong, Anet will not. Only they know.
GW2 is a single global story. Living World seasons, Personal stories, event chains, heart quests, dungeons, they are all part of the lore of the world, and players who want to participate in that want to participate in it. The only thing where you can say “it’s ok for this story to not be for you,” is if there is NO story at all and it’s just a chain of completely arbitrary combat encounters, like the Queen’s Pavilion bosses.
I’m not saying “it’s ok for this story to not be for you.” I’m saying this story is a completely independent arc from the main story. I am well aware that everything that occurs in Tyria is related to Tyria. This is extremely obvious. I’m simply saying if you refuse to put in the work, then there are other avenues for viewing this story.
I’m certainly not asking for that, or at least, most of the people in the group would need to do better than that. It would just be one in which layers would be less likely to die, and require less of a DPS-check.
What you are asking for is a mode that does not require mechanics, so you can enjoy the mechanics of the mode. I mean come on lolol
I think you have a poor understanding of most people.
I think you assume too much and by the amount of replies you get to posts I think you are turning a blind eye to what is actually reality and what is in your head.
For about the three-dozenth time now, nobody is talking about neutering the existing raids. They get to stay 100% intact, so long as an alternative is provided. Now, if there continues to be opposition to any sort of alternative, if the existing raid is all we’ll be getting, then I guess we would have to talk about how to make those raids more accessible to the rest of the playerbase. You got a real nice raid here, shame if anything happened to it.
You fail to realize that you are essentially “neutering” the value of the rewards gained by raids. It’s really simple. How legendary is a legendary that everyone has?
Which is why I keep having to tell people that I have no interest in that experience and never will, but I DO have an interest in a content type that includes all the things the current GW2 raid offers, except that experience.
Then, I hate to break it to you big guy, but you have no interest in raiding. Have you spent time raiding in any MMO? Do you understand what it consists of? Most groups should be downing content such as VG and Gors in a matter of <10 hours. Try playing WoW where it took over 100 attempts to down a Mythic boss. Try playing MMO where any raids take practice and perfection. You are defying what is fundamental to raiding and you fail to understand this. Raids require mechanics that are required to be followed otherwise YOU WILL FAIL. It’s so unbelievably simple.
If you create a nerfed version so that you can avoid mechanics THEN YOU ARE NOT RAIDING FOR THE MECHANICS.
So its OK for you to be, “bribed,” into playing content, but not anyone else. Got it.
Yeah, I have no idea where he was going with that. With that kind of a mentality everything in this game could be considered a “bribe” by Anet. Why does anyone do anything in this game outside of lore? The reward it brings.
If Anet simply created some incentive to run dungeons daily then… like magic dungeons would become populated again. I feel bad for those going for dungeon master these days.
being carried is a rather nebulous concept
strictly speaking, each person on the team is being carried by the other 9 people on the team, as they wouldn’t be able to come anywhere near clearing it by themselves, regardless of how well they do
Sure, but each player is required to put forth a certain amount of effort divided by the amount of players/roles to succeed. If some player drops below this unknown amount that varies from group to group, then other players are forced to pick up the slack.
This could get complicated (One role’s effort versus another), but I’m sure you can understand what I’m saying.
Frankly, the whole concept behind Legendary Armor seems flawed to being with. The stats swapping is useless if it’s indeed its selling point. I would hate to see if the armor had visual effects like the weapons do. What a mess that would be.
Idunno, some people are OCD like me. Everything muuuust be purpleeeee. Perhaps it will have rune selection. Perhaps it will allow you to preset runes allowing you to swap between those. Perhaps it won’t even allow for stat swapping.
I don’t think Legendary Armor, as a tier of gear (Not just a skin despite having the same stats) should be limited to excessive raiding.
How Legendary Armor is even related to raiding is all speculation though and pointless to argue about. I’m sure suggestions are welcomed.
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1.) Find your role, and optimize it:
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Raid
2.) Learn the encounters:
http://dulfy.net/2015/11/20/gw2-vale-guardian-raid-boss-guide/
http://dulfy.net/2015/11/25/gw2-gorseval-the-multifarious-raid-boss-guide/
http://dulfy.net/2015/11/30/gw2-sabetha-the-saboteur-raid-boss-guide/
http://dulfy.net/2016/03/15/gw2-slothasor-salvation-pass-raid-guide/
http://dulfy.net/2016/03/16/gw2-matthias-gabrel-salvation-pass-raid-guide/
3.) Watch PoV videos of your role. You can google that.
4.) Scour the “open world” LFG panel for raids looking for more. In the mean time post your role there. “Druid Support LFR”
5.) If you are having trouble finding a PuG raid scour guild recruitment for raiding guilds. Go to the guild websites and apply. Don’t just apply to a few. Apply to every guild you can find. Watch your applications. Officers will reply directly to those.
It’s a lot of work mate. Ensure you are ready for it.
@STIHL Absolutely, then I do in fact agree with you although I still stand by my point that a “LFR” raid is not the way to go. Although, I do believe VG can be easily killed, it is not right to lock a “tier” of armor behind a specific game mode. Although I am able to reach all aspects of this game I do realize that others are under a time constraint and raiding is simply not possible.
Honestly, I have yet to unlock the precursor masteries so I have no place speculating how the legendary armor would work. I assumed it would be “gift of raid” or something for x amounts of shards.
Besides time, there is really no excuse to being unable to down Vale Guardian. It will become unbelievably easier once a proper LFG panel is implemented for raiding. Why? Because this will have the effect of giving leaders the ability to properly find pugs through an efficient and organized system. As a side-effect to this more and more players will become expertised when it comes to raiding. As a side-effect of this, the increase in success will continually go up as time goes on. Pretty soon it will be like second-nature to the average player.
@Obtena
That is the obvious. In most cases, specifically with pugs the group will be working on progression which means they are not meeting the kill timer by any amounts of percentage. A three percent increase in stats simply means you will have an advantage when progressing.
Obviously, if a group is currently meeting the kill timer with a lot of DPS to spare then you could say even the 10th person does not matter. There have been groups 7-manning the content. Why bring the last three people to a random group? Well, the odds of success will greatly rise…
What you said above only applies to groups who are bringing more than what is required to the table. Another way to phrase that sentence is that you, or whoever is not seeking their maximum potential, is being carried.
@STIHL
Well, the good news is that the raid “lore” is not specifically tied to the main lore. The other good news is that I’d be willing to place bets on the fact that the Legendaries will be gated behind shards meaning you do not have to actually clear content or have “skillz.” You simply need to put forward an effort to “try.”
I’m simply calling people out when they say it’s not about the loot. Take WoW raiding for instance. If you haven’t tried it, bare with me. So, they introduced LFR for those who struggled to find groups or struggled with the content. What this was, was content that required zero effort and zero skills. It had no replay-ability. It was so boring the second time through. You essentially needed to auto-attack the boss throughout the encounter pressing one button repeatedly. This content did not attract players who wished to have fun. This merely became the grind for the in-between of dungeon, and normal difficulty raids. This is the same exact thing a nerf-ed raid would bring. What I don’t want to see is titles, achievements, and essentially glory handed out to those who can zergfest through a “LFR” type raid. I don’t want to see some guy running around with a boss mini from clearing a “LFR” wing. I don’t care about the legendary. Not one bit.
I can respect you wanting to view the lore for yourself, but I do not see how it is possible. Normally, I wouldn’t care if they added in a “LFR” setting, but as we all know Anet’s dev population is extremely limited when comparing to Blizzard’s and I simply do not want them wasting time on a grind-fest so people can see a tiny portion of story that could be easily obtained on the wiki. If the Dev resources were unlimited I would be indifferent. I’d rather see new content though and quicker releases of future wings.
It’s pretty simple. They want to be able to engage and continue the Living Story and quest after Legendary Armor.
It’s not the raid itself that is attractive, it’s the fact that “World Based” things are gated by it.
If they put in a Story Mode, that allowed someone to enjoy the Story, and get whatever collectible they needed for Legendary Armor, I think that would resolve this entire issue.
So… it’s the reward to you. Like I said, I do not think it is right to gate a specific part of a legendary past anything that is challenging such as Sab/Matthais. It’s all speculation though. Who knows, it may be entirely shard based which means you could essentially get the armor by wiping. You do get a significant amount of shards after so many wipes. After my first night of VG progression without any kills I think I remembered having 40-something shards.
As for story. Correct me if I’m wrong but raid lore has nothing to do with living story. Isn’t it simply a side-story that is hardly understandable without additional reading. (Unless you’re hardcore about that lore.)
I’m a bit confused about what you’re saying at the end there. Are you simply saying that the portion of precursor that is gated behind raids should have multiple ways to be gained? If that is so, then you and I are in a partial-agreement. If it’s gated simply behind shards then I do not think this is too much to ask from the general community. Why? Because you do not even have to clear content to get magnetite shards.
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I mean, in all seriousness I hope you realized they announced they were doing this.
@Ohani, I’m too lazy to quote so take each paragraph as a reply to what you said.
Okay, you managed to type out three paragraphs without stating WHY you want to raid. It’s not the content. You want to nerf the content so it is no longer “content.” There is plenty of content in this game that is “zerg” worthy. It’s not the reward. You stated this. You could argue story but I could argue you to look it up on the internet if you actually refuse to raid. So… what is it then? You don’t need to type out a lot for this. You’re not a politician. You can just outright answer the question.
Forum time does not equal raiding time. Why you are arguing this… I have no idea. Do you think you’re getting better at raiding by sitting on here? Do you think this will help you?
Here’s the problem, you CAN raid! Trust me, even you have the potential to clear this content. You are simply not APPLYING yourself. You do not what to spend the TIME. If your raid team can’t do it? Find another. If you can’t do it? Figure out why. If pugs are not accepting you? Figure out why. If your group is struggling with a mechanic? Practice! You have no evidence that a significant portion of the community that applies themselves to raiding is (or is not) successful. Neither do I. This is why it is pointless to make a point for, or against, this.
The whole base of your argument that “lessers” take up the majority of the community is all speculation based off game forums. Here’s what I can tell you. A massive amount more of players come to these forums to complain than to say “I’m content with this content” and this number is even more insignificant to the number of players that actually use these forums. Everything you base your argument off of is speculation.
Again, this is a complete nonsense statement. The two have absolutely nothing to do with each other.
Umm, the reward is WHY you want an easy-mode. You want the rewards raiding brings and the reward of downing content others worked towards. Your whole central argument centers around legendary armor. You think an easy-mode will fix this. I think not gating content such as that behind raiding would fix it.
So you’ve spent 63 hours raiding then?
By this logic you are equating an hour of forum time to an hour of raiding. You failed to see the initial point.
If what I’m suggesting would devalue anything for raiders, then raiders need to have their stuff devalued a bit. It’s better for the game as a whole. I know you’re looking out for your own personal interests, and who cares about people who don’t currently raid, but this feature could be a lot bigger than it is.
What you ARE saying WILL devaluate raiding. I, and pretty much everyone else you’ve came across so far pretty much agrees with this. I’ve had two people mail me in game thanking me for what I’m saying to you… literally. The feature is new and it does not need to be directed into this easy-mode, lazy, degrading/devaluating nonsense.
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Besides the bonus in stats it’s also a noob check imho. Goes both ways but this could generally be said.
@Ashen, maybe Ohani
I feel I should expand on what I view is devaluing to raiding. I don’t care about legendary armor. I don’t care if it’s offered in other aspects of the game. I care about the kills, the achievements, and the raid exclusive rewards that are currently out. This is why I disagree with an “easy-mode” unless all it has to offer is a seperate 1 point achievement stating you can Zerg just fine and maybe 5 shards a kill. I still wouldn’t like this due to the Dev resources being consumed… But still.
If all people such as Ohani want is the armor, then perhaps it should, and will be offered in other portions of the game. Perhaps it will require ALL aspects of the game. It’s all speculation.
@Ohani
Why don’t you pay raiders 50s each to run you through raids? I think it’s really sad you push your own interests on every thread and then suggest this for someone who is struggling to find a dungeon group. My 2 cents mate.
@Ohani
The LFG panel will make a difference because THERE ISNT ONE. As for the reward, you have no interest in raiding so you have no interest in the reward. You have it backwards. If you had interest in the reward you would raid. As for putting in more work than me? Sorry, 1 hour on VG, 1 hour on Gors, and 60 hours in these forums is not more work than me big guy.
My point is you are trying to devalue the work that people who raid put in. It’s real simple. I get you’re looking out for your own personal interests, and who cares about people who raid…
Dungeons currently give a fair amount of rewards. The problem is that people are tired of running dungeons and don’t feel like doing them if the rewards are only fair, they will only do it if they offer bonus reward on top of that, and there’s no particular reason why they should.
So, if you agree… then why are you arguing. (o.o)
You do realize they nerfed the gold gain then added in more rewarding content…right?
We don’t know what the new LFG will contain, but if it’s mostly about raiding then it will be a huge waste of time. The LFG tool primarily needs an overhaul to correct issues with open world content and basic usability, any benefit to raiding is purely a side effect, although something focused on around here for obvious reasons. It would do almost nothing to help the state of raiding, because finding a group in raiding is not an issue, actually being able to succeed with that group is the issue. If you’re already in a position to succeed with raiding, then you can find a group to do it with you easily enough.
Here’s the thing. We DO know what the new LFG will contain. It will contain a seperate LFG tab for raiding… Raiding needs it’s own organized tab so you don’t see people scattered across the open world LFG. It will help infinitely because it will increase participation and accessibility.
Duh, but we’re discussing an alternative to that for people who have no interest in what that would entail.
If you have no interest in raiding then you have no interest in the reward.
And that’s the issue we’d like to balance out.
You misunderstand me. You’ve spent what? 50-60 hours so far on these forums replying to EVERYONE who is arguing with you. I’ve spent about 18 hours in Salvation Pass to clear sloth to Matthais. Well we got Matthais to 5% after some hard work. Do you see what I’m getting at here?
Yeah, any time someone hands me a hundred dollar bill I’m like “pssht, you can keep that, I’ve got plenty of one dollar bills and they’re pretty much the same thing.”
No, this is not what I’m saying at all. Let’s say they create the $100. You are the only person on the planet to have it. It’s pretty valuable eh? Now, they hand the dollar bill to everyone on the planet with little effort. Oh look, your $100 is now valueless. It’s a really simple thought process man.
Just because people can beat the raid on easy mode, that does not take any prestige away from those who can beat it on hard mode, for whatever that’s worth in the first place.
Yes it does. I explained above. Why do you think legendary gear is worth anything? Why do you think anything in this game is worth anything? It’s based off it’s value which is determined by availability and challenge to get.
IF this would devalue raiding in any way, then raiding would deserve a little devaluing. I don’t see how it does though.
It’s simple economics man.
Why so many what are successful?
Raiders……zzzzz
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lol, saying there are 100 different difficulty levels for fractals is like referring to a staircase by how many stairs it has. point taken tho.
Yeah, I mean, it’s not like I think raids should have 100 levels, but even if Fractals JUST included Fractal 100 and Fractal 25, it would present two significantly different difficulty experiences. Two levels, that’s all raids need.
At the cost of devaluing raiding itself. No thanks. You ignored the last part of my reply. Perhaps, ask yourself why so many are successful.
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1000g? Holy smokes dude. I spend about 90g per piece. 100 × 6 = 540g. You can farm this in a couple weeks. Everything shouldn’t come instantly. This isn’t even including the ascended armor boxes you’ll eventually acquire.
Groups are entitled to require whatever they want.
i would like to agree but one possible problem is that making a difficulty setting could separate the player base, which would make finding a group a lot harder.
I actually believe the opposite. It would give people who refuse to (practice/look up guides/optimally play) a sort of “blind sense” of the raid. The main problem is that it would lessen the value of raiding and make it “cheap” for those who do the work. Take any currency. Hand that currency out to everyone. Now it isn’t worth much.
ah ok then nvm, was on the fence anyways if its like 2005 WoW strict ill pass, thanks though, cheers
It’s not that GW2 compositions are “strict.” Some people “7-manned” VG. What people are generally trying to say is people typically look for what a certain classes maximum potential is which will obviously make each encounter more effortless. This happens everywhere. Zerk used to be the only meta prior to HoT.
You’ll find people generally try to run optimal compositions because they make life easy. If they need a condi dps in the first wing they will generally look for a condi engi. This is why someone who states they are a zerk engi may be rejected. It is certainly possible to do most of this content with numerous amounts of compositions.
People have already did the work for you. It’s all on metabattle. Look at the builds, decide what you want to play =]
It is, but it’s not a panacea. The LFG tool alone will do nothing whatsoever to address many of the concerns raised about raids in their current form. It will only improve things for the niche of a niche of players who mostly like how raids are now, but can’t figure out how to use the existing LFG tool to find exactly the group they need.
It would increase the accessibility and approachability by so much. When you say “many of the concerns raised about raids” you mean specifically by you…right? Notice how Anet is designing a new LFG tool for raiding… but not an easy-mode raid.
No they aren’t, because they lack any actual control. The most they can do is express feedback as to what they want or do not want, but ultimately ANet decided what goes in and what doesn’t. Because they hold onto the power to make the final call, they also bare full responsibility for the outcome.
Or… you know… if the player wants the reward that comes with raiding they could… oh I don’t know… learn how to optimize their character and effectively raid? I hope you realize you’ve spent at least 20x the time on these forums discussing an “easy-mode” than it took my raid team to nearly clear salvation pass. Hummmm…zzzzz
No, but you always have to consider everyone, and balance good with bad across the entire playerbase. You can never, as you keep insisting they should, “design content only for a small niche and everyone outside that niche just needs to deal with it.” Any time they choose to address a small niche, they have to do so in a way that provides minimal disruption to those outside that niche. The raids failed at this, so far at least.
It’s impossible to consider everyone. What Anet can do, as a business, is consider the sales. Raids sell. Anet implemented raids. This “small niche” you keep bringing up in every post is a theory that is made up by you with no supporting basis. Anet is not dumb. Only Anet knows the numbers. It’s realllllly simple when you think about it.
Then I’m afraid there’s nothing I can do to help you.
Just going to put this out there… I don’t think the guy who is content with the content is asking for help. Content for content. Haha.
I get what you’re saying though. Lessen the value of the reward that actual raiders practically slave over. The logic is definitely there.
Seriously though. I’m going to say this with respectful intentions. You can continue spending countless hours here, or you can go through these guides and do the research. It’s your time mane. Nothing would make me happier on these forums than seeing you succeed in this game. Raiding WILL become a lot more accessible once a proper LFG panel is implemented.
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Raid
http://dulfy.net/2015/11/20/gw2-vale-guardian-raid-boss-guide/
http://dulfy.net/2015/11/25/gw2-gorseval-the-multifarious-raid-boss-guide/
http://dulfy.net/2015/11/30/gw2-sabetha-the-saboteur-raid-boss-guide/
http://dulfy.net/2016/03/15/gw2-slothasor-salvation-pass-raid-guide/
http://dulfy.net/2016/03/16/gw2-matthias-gabrel-salvation-pass-raid-guide/
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Fractals are simply easier to design and sustain. There was a dev post somewhere that went into more detail.
Dungeons are pretty much dead to Anet for now lol
@Vayne
I’m going to keep this short. From what you just said it sounds like you are getting burnt out on this game.
It sounds like you blame the game for providing rewards exclusively through certain avenues of content. If you’ve played this game to the point that you have no more “short term goals,” then why not perfect your gameplay? From a MMO perspective, if you are picky about the content you choose to play, the rewards you get to choose from become limited. My 2 cents.
I love Tyria, I have since 2005, but if you’re to the point where you aren’t having fun, then step back and breathe a bit. Making all content accessible to everyone would greatly reduce the enjoyment this game brings IMHO. Challenge = replay-ability. It would make certain aspects of this game empty if all content was easily finished through multiple avenues in a limited amount of time. What’s the point of doing anything in this game? The reward. This is generally how MMO’s go.
It isn’t the rewards. Dungeons currently give a fair amount of rewards. The problem is that people are tired of running dungeons and don’t feel like doing them if the rewards are only fair, they will only do it if they offer bonus reward on top of that, and there’s no particular reason why they should.
The problem IS rewards. Let’s take fractals for instance. They added in exclusive rewards which require currency from fractals along with dailies. Everyone runs swamp, berserker, and the daily choice. Why do they do this you ask? Well, because of the quick reward!
Take dungeons. Make the reward what it used to be. Add in some exclusive content which requires dungeon runs such as dailies. Like magic, people will run dungeons again. Also, you pretty much said it wasn’t rewards then continued on to say it was rewards lol.
You’re making the assumption this has been a positive financial change. I’m making the assumption that those numbers aren’t in yet. Of course they’re going to finish the raid,t they’ve been working on it, it was supposed to come with the expansion, but these chips haven’t been counted yet.
I’m stating the fact that a surprisingly decent amount of players have cleared/worked on content in the raid wings.
According to this: https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/47um5k/raid_5/
41.5% of players have at least stepped foot in the raid and attempted a boss. About 21% of players have cleared a boss, or wiped enough to gather up 50 magnetite shards. What’s more is this is an understatement since a lot of raiders do not use gw2efficiency. You may think “Well 21% (Most certainly more) of the player-base is not significant.” I’m here to tell you that you are wrong. It was speculated that HoT sold about half a million copies. If 21% of the player-base came to this game to raid, or raiding keeps them interested I’d say this is having a positive impact on sales. As time goes by the content will become natural and more and more players will participate. Evidence points to you being the minority when you account for all aspects of this game.
I personally wouldn’t mind seeing these numbers matched up with WvW’ers, sPvP’ers, Dungeons, Fractals, Open world Meta’s, or… what do you guys complaining do? Mine ore all day and SV trains?
There’s been a signficant backlash from the casual community against raids and HoT in general. Significant enough for Anet to revisit HoT and even admit it was too grindy and didn’t mesh with their stated objectives. That kind of backpedaling doesn’t happen when all is well in Denmark.
There’s been a signficant backlash from the casual community against raids and HoT in general. Significant enough for Anet to revisit HoT and even admit it was too grindy and didn’t mesh with their stated objectives. That kind of backpedaling doesn’t happen when all is well in Denmark.
Correction, there’s been a significant backlash from the 1% of casuals that take up these forums. Also, Anet is revisiting HoT outside of raiding. That statement is pointless to this conversation unless you want to show me where Anet stated they were revisiting raids in April.
@Aenorio
Tl;DR I’m guessing you had a bad pugging experience. Part of raiding in pugs is dealing with people who have already cleared the content you are learning. These are people who read up and watched videos on the fights. If you come in, messing up the mechanics or whatever your role is the people running the pug have two options. They can give you constructive criticism, which pretty much no one online can take, or they can kick you out and replace you. It’s fair game and this isn’t elitism. It’s called looking for people of similar skill. If you are looking for people to casually raid and learn together. Find a guild! It’s not that difficult of a concept!
I don’t know what Anet can do about you feeling like the raiding community is “toxic.”
I think the only other point you made was:
and then perhaps a feature that would require a tank to lure the boss away from the group, whilst being heavily fortified enough to take the lethal blow the boss would deliver so that the group stayed alive, and the tank did his job without falling flat on his meaty posterior in the process."
Is this a joke? This is literally how it is? Tanks, while not relevant on every fight are the class that is rocking this most toughness. They literally pull aggro. Druids and Tempests wear magi/zealot/cleric gear to heal. There are condi dps that rock viper stats and a few extra classes that rock zerkers. Probably others too… It sounds like you have zero comprehension on this game after HoT was released.
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I am just so frustrated with HOT and the direction GW2 has taken.
The direction really has not changed.
I can only do certain events, hero point, or adventure mini-games when they become available.
Hero points are always available. They’re looking to change adventures to be less gated. Events run on a timer. With the four maps combined there is literally always something to do in HoT.
No one is showing up for big meta events so they fail.
This is false. You are probably showing up at the wrong time and this is on YOU. Even at 5-6 AM central people are running and completing meta events. Several servers.
I can not get some mastery points unless other are there too.
Are you talking about hero points? Yes… Sometimes you have to wait 10-15 minutes for someone to show up. Or… I know this is difficult… but you could do the /map “Need help at so-and-so HP!” Listen I know you’re casual and this is an extremely difficult task to accomplish but trust me, other people don’t bite.
The entire game has turned into forced cooperation.
I’ll start by saying welcome to MMO’s! This is a MMO dude. Cooperation = progress. People play MMO’s to play with each other. It’s literally a multiplayer game with SO much content that is solo-able. If you decide to continue playing MMO’s then you need to realize that some content requires COOPERATION.
I want to play when I want to, not when others decide to do certain events. I loved GW1 and when GW2 first came out it was AWESOME. Now I am mired with following around tags just hitting buttons.
No one is deciding when to do certain events. The game is set on a timer. It never changes. I challenge you to seek out these timers as they will expand your mind.
Trust me, I am GW1’s greatest fan. I absolutely HATE what they have done with the game. I’ll still play it… >.< but GW1’s philosophy was absolutely amazing. You need to realize, GW2 is a seperate game. Comparing each is like apples to oranges.
I just want to play a nice game not follow after groups. Or grinding after things to get other things. What happened to the fun GW2?
Perhaps, you should put more than 10 minutes into this expansion before you write a lengthy thread. Trust me! After a few hours you’ll get the hang of it along with the other hundreds of thousands of players who did! No pressure!
I have fully optimized characters and alts. I have the skill and ability to raid should I choose to do so. I don’t want to do so. I don’t enjoy the experience enough to devote major time to it. I’m sure I’m not the only person who came to this game to avoid raid centric games, or games where not raiding makes you a second class citizen.
So now, having the skill to raid, and the ability to raid, but not enjoying raiding, I don’t want to see rewards that give gameplay advantage locked behind raids. I could grind away at raids to get legendary armor, and yes, I’d really like to have armor where I can change stats, but if I’m forced to raid to do it, I’ll dislike the game, and it will increase my change of leaving.
Knowing that I can’t get this convenience unless I do something I don’t enjoy for hours really does make me want to leave the game. That’s how I feel about it.
I didn’t buy a game to work. I bought a game to have fun. Until now I could get the best gear in the game without doing something I didn’t enjoy for an extended period of time. Now I can’t.
That’s an issue for me and people like me.
Well, it’s a good thing you are not forced to raid? It is perfectly justified to offer unique rewards through a hard-core system. It’s amazing how entitled you feel about this subject.
If you can’t deal with this then that sucks. Anet made a business decision here. Obviously raids must attract more people then they deter.
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You want to know what’s awesome? There are very few mechanics that actually cause a raid-wide wipe unless you’re talking Sabetha or Matthais. Seriously.
Your issue is you refuse to practice the fights and perfect the few mechanics that are tossed your way. Everyone has a job. Put in a dozen attempts. You keep dying to something. Address that and fix it. You’re taking the easy way out.
Comparing raids to zerg-fests and live ammunition to airsoft is hilarious. Sorry guy, if you don’t do the time, you…wont do the crime? What no that’s not right…
Find a guild man/group man. You’re wasting your time here. Literally. Go post on every recruitment forum. Go apply to 10 guilds. Do you need me to go out and find these guilds for you? Do you even have a fully optimized character and an alt?
So, you’ve put 3k+ hours into this game. Instead of sitting on these forums wasting your time with ideas that will never happen for reasons you do not comprehend, why don’t you… oh I don’t know… find a raiding guild?
I’ve had HoT for almost a month now. I found a raiding guild at the end of the first week. The following week we cleared the first wing. Now salvation is out and my raid team is progressing to the last phase of Matthais. It’s really not that difficult. Go find a raid team of similar skill. I’ve only put about 800 hours into this time dump of a game.
@Ohana
So, you don’t want the rewards. You don’t care for putting in the time and work that is required for raiding. You simply wish to zerg down each boss in a boring fashion to see the environmental views?
You’re one in a million my friend. Here’s what I would suggest. Put some more time into this game. Maximize yourself in fractal/dungeon environments. Max out your masteries. Put some work in sPvP with a real team practicing real strats and builds. Challenge yourself in other places. Once you do this you will find that things such as raids are ridiculously easy.
Raiding is not for the new player. It’s not for the player who has put 100 hours into this game. GW2 Is literally catering to the dedicated player who has put over 1000 hours and actually knows a thing or two about optimization and theorycrafting. You don’t even have to really do that! Other people have literally done the work for you!
Then, once you have mastered all aspects of this game BELOW raiding, perhaps it will be time to move on to that. First, you must practice. What you’re doing is essentially throwing someone completely oblivious to FPS games into CoD: MW1 and expecting them to instantly conquer veteran difficulty. Nope, doesn’t work like that. You need to work up to that.
Raiding will be around forever. Simply work up to it first.
This does not matter. It does not matter that there is “something else to do,” what matters is whether the available tasks are ones the player wants to do. If the tasks that a player wants to do would be an easy mode raid, then an easy mode raid is what they want to do, suggest no substitutions and people will stop telling you that you’re completely missing the point.
No it does matter. It means you haven’t put in TIME in a game that requires time. Simply because you want to do something in a MMO, does not mean you will instantly achieve this. You’re completely missing the point. You think you know more than Anet. It’s funny. “I want to raid, but I have never dealt with how raiding works. I expect instant rewards without time or effort!” Do you think raiding is new to MMO’s? GW2 invented it? It is becoming increasingly obvious that you have no experience in hardcore MMO gameplay. You’re seeing players who have literally put in THOUSANDS of hours into raid style game-play. Then you come along with zero experience and expect the same results. Everyone has to start somewhere big guy. What you are suggesting all around these forums is simply NOT how raiding works.
Ok, but what do you win for using more insulting terminology rather than less insulting terminology? The point is, they are what they are, deal with it.
The terminology is on point… This is the literal definition to what I am describing. Are you serious? The point is they are lazy and wish to reap the same rewards as people who put the work in. It’s really simple. There’s no point in arguing it. If you don’t want to do the content, then maybe you should deal with it?
You say “casuals,” but I think you mean “raiders.” That would be more accurate, at least.
How many raiders do you see giving awful suggestions? I can’t tell you how many “casuals” I see put 10 minutes into this game then give a full review/advice on changes. It’s hilarious. As a business Anet has opened this game up to such a wide variety of consumers. This will essentially increase the survivability of this game. Do you want to see GW2 die? Trust me, Anet is a whole hell of a lot smarter than you when it comes to this business.
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Remove rewards from all content. That way, only the people that truly want to do content, will do it.
Hey let’s remove the rewards from everything. Let’s see how many people still play this game. /facepalm
That’s literally as ridiculous as telling someone to go play this game in all white gear. How long is it going to take for people to realize MMO’s are entirely about rewards and time. You do something for bragging rights. It is literally a community. This isn’t simply a RPG where you play through the content.
@Ohana
Let’s create this scenario. So, to get Twilight you can either do it the normal way. This way is viewed as extremely time consuming and it takes a lot of effort, commitment, and work.
Alternatively, you can run an easy meta event 10 times and get the same reward. Pretty much AFK to auto-loot. There’s no differential in the reward from the above scenario.
What path will you choose? This path of logic is absolutely absurd.
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No one is forcing people to raid unprepared. Either optimize your character or go somewhere else. Luckily, for non-raiders there is plenty of other content. As for “casuals.” This is simply another term for lazy.
Use whatever terms you prefer, the fact remains that they play the game and want to be supported too.
And casuals are supported. There is so much content available to you. If you were to the point where you had nothing else to do I highly doubt you would be casual. In reality, you want to hit these bosses with a few attempts, get an easy zerg-tactic kill, and reap the rewards. You’re not fooling anyone. When people say this game isn’t “casual friendly” on these forums it is the direct result from them unwilling to put the work in. That is the literal definition of lazy and you can not argue this. Why do you think Dev’s pay more attention to reddit than this toxic environment? What casuals suggest would literally destroy this game.
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@Ohoni
I’m not talking about being carried. I’m talking about joining a group of similar skill and growing together.
It’s pretty simple. If you want to raid you need to dedicate at least 1-2 nights for a 3 hour raid sesh. It’s really not that bad and this is how you progress in raids. There’s no alternative. You put in the work or no reward.
I agree.
As such, all rewards should be removed from raids. That way, only the people that truly want to raid, will raid.
I want recognition for the time I’ve put into raiding. That is awful logic. I don’t want people who put in no work to have recognition. The entire point of raiding is the reward. You don’t put in hard work for nothing. This is the trade-off between casual and hardcore. GW2 needs to cater to both.
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Ohani,
You need to go out and find a guild that is successfully progressing through the raiding content. It is obvious that the only reason you are reaching this conclusion is due to the fact that you are running with people who can not handle their responsibilities. You would literally flip your opinion if you were more successful.
Now, this may mean you need to dedicate 6-9 hours a week to raiding, but if you really want this then you will have no issue doing that. This is how raiding works. As for pugging. You’re relying on faith that your fellow pugs have already put the time into the content that is being cleared. This is more than likely not true though since pugs are generally less successful than full teams who practice together.
My personal story? I bought this expansion about a month ago after taking a year long break. I blew through the HoT story/exploration in the matter of a few days. I discovered that raiding would require a team so I set out to find a raiding guild. I found one the next day and began progressing through SV. I cleared the first wing within two weeks of buying the expansion. Now were working on Matthais in the second wing. It’s really not that hard. Just do the work. What you are asking for is a lazy alternative to raiding. It’s simply lazy because you do not want to put the work in. You wipe to Gors maybe 5-6 times and say TOO HARD I’M OUT.
This is why we need easy mode raids, so that people who aren’t willing or able to do the hard mode raids have someplace to go and work towards their goals without getting in anyone’s way.
No one is forcing people to raid unprepared. Either optimize your character or go somewhere else. Luckily, for non-raiders there is plenty of other content. As for “casuals.” This is simply another term for lazy.
I feel like there’s no purpose to even having a commander tag displayed in raids IMO.
Seriously? 600g to get carried through part of a raid?
I guess that puts a few things about raids into perspective :-(
I’ve heard of groups 6 manning content in the first wing as well. I guess this balances out your perspective of raiding.
DO NOT RUN MATTHIAS AT 600G!!!!!
If you’re willing to drop the gold then wait until it drops to around 150-200 AT THE MOST.
Also, as for raid guides if you are looking to optimize your character go here:
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Raid
It may not be in your best interests to start out as a chronomancer tank. They are squishy and tanking requires a lot of responsibility and liability. I would suggest gearing out a condi or zerk dps. OR! You can be a chronomancer and not tank :P Or tank… It’s really up to you.
You may already know this, but optimally you’ll want ascended trinkets/weapons and at least exotic gear that is correct with the correct weapons/runes/stat types.
Accessories: Guild Missions
Amulet: WvW Vendor
Rings: Fractal Dailies
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It takes barely 8-12 hours of practice all in all to complete a raid wing the first time.
That’s a lot, you know. For many people that’s several weeks of playtime (without doing anything else, like dailies).
If you can only dedicate that much time for an MMO, maybe you’re simply not supposed to be able to do everything the game has to offer. And maybe MMOs aren’t the best type of game for you.
Why do people always complain that they can’t get ‘thing’ when they are simply unwilling or unable to put in the required time or effort?
Because casual literally translates to “lazy” in this game.
Step one, highlight the code for Spirit Vale. Press ctrl-C
Step two, click a nice place to put it, Press ctrl-V
LMFAO,
Anyone play WoW’s expansion, WoD? They announced they’d release flying mounts halfway through in Draenor. It ended up taking them months and a lot of the players were literally like “WHY all you have to do is flip a switch!”
The above statement reminded me of that soo much hahah “Press ctrl-C”
Edit: Dang it maddoctor. Now it’s the post above his.