Guild Wars 2

Tenshi.3598:

Haha that was exactly my point: how meaningless vertical progression is. Apologies if that wasn’t clear.

Sorry, my bad. :P
I should have paid closer attention, but I’m glad we are in agreement.

Onshidesigns.1069:

Also one of the misconceptions about people who want Horizontal progression. Is that they want everyone to be the same. That’s not true. I want unlockables and to stand out. But not in a way that gates content.

Very true. Somehow people think that when you’re opposed to vertical progression, then you don’t want challenges, or to advance your character. Not at all, horizontal still has unique and difficult to find objects, but these are placed there for the pure sense of the achievement, not because arbitrarily important numbers are built into them.

Horizontal progression actually enforces a level field of choices, of self-imposed customization, while vertical progression lures you out, as if the item isn’t good enough, finding it isn’t enough of a challenge, rather the higher numbers is what’s supposed to drive you.
Actually, now that I think about it, that’s kind of insulting towards the players.

Two questions.

Firstly, there’s been a lot of complaints about Orr having little challenge other than being an annoyance. There’s been mention of old content being updated as new content is released. What is planned for Orr in the future.

Secondly, after weapon skills are unlocked at low levels, it becomes quite static, and people have mentioned that they feel limited by it. Are there plans to bring even a small level of customization to weapon skills? For instance, perhaps the ability to unlock new variations of existing weapon skills with skill points, or being able to switch a weapon skill out with new skills that are implemented.

If I need to choose between the two, I’ll definitely want the first question answered over the second.

arcaneclarity.5283:

Horizontal progression is mostly additional abilities of relatively equal power added instead of a constant increase of power. It is more difficult to add balanced abilities instead of just upping the numbers on your gear which is why game developers take the path of least resistance a lot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxszx60ZwGw

Brilliant video! ANet should definitely have a look at it, it explains exactly why people are so resistant to ascended gear. It seems to them that ANet took the path of least resistance, a disappointing path (perhaps even a lazy path), because ANet did a great job with comparables (as stated in the video) in GW1.

I think if ANet takes a step back and re-evaluate ascended gear, they’d see that it can stand alongside exotics, instead of just replacing it. This will breed choices, which is something people want from new content, instead of giving them the feeling that the new content are the next step towards replacing the old.
This is something some people don’t understand. Sure, you don’t need ascended items, however, it is new content that people would want to explore, and as the video displayed, higher stats require the game to step up challenges for those stats, which makes people feel forced to get them.

Again, the thread I made on how ascended gear can have a comparable place next to exotic items sort of outlines how this could work.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Horizontal-progression-how-it-can-work/first#post829680

HunterFox.2578:

No. Lost shores was our content for Nov. Never has been turkeyday celebrations.

Mad king day, wintersday, canthan new year, and st paddys i believe.

Oh really?
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Thanksgiving_2007
Well, it’s nothing huge in GW1, but there is a small celebration of eating goods.

Then there’s this part in the Chris Whiteside blog:

We also want take the opportunity to talk a little bit about what we have coming into the game soon from a high-level standpoint, an aperitif if you like before our Thanksgiving celebrations.

The “our Thanksgiving celebrations” is what makes me wonder. Was he talking about ‘our celebrations’ as in the American people, or ‘our celebrations’ as in the the GW2 community?

I made a post about this elsewhere, so I’ll just say here what I said over there.

The problem I have with legendary items is that it’s more of a test of having large pockets and grinding patience. Obtaining a legendary isn’t much of test of prowess, skill, or dedication to actual gameplay.

Constructing the legendary weapons in game consist of a few decent challenges: map exploration, skill points, karma, badges of honor, maxed crafting. Others can only be gained through immense grinding, or having huge pockets: 250 T6 mats, ecto, lodestones, mystic coins, rune stones, dungeon tokens. Then there are the items that are bound to luck, a really idiotic choice when it comes to something that supposed to be a challenging reward.

I mean, ANet promote these as the end all to be all, which will really put you through the ringer. Yet, it’s not like they even know their own game. Why aren’t any jumping puzzles involved, or an extensive meta event, or the personal story, or any mini dungeons, or big boss fights like the three dragons, or any personalized challenge quest?

There are so many better ways this could have been done to actually challenge the player. Would you want to own a legendary and have people look at you thinking “wow, he must have done some sick grinding to get that”, or “wow, he must be kitten good to have accomplished such a feat.” Because right now, it’s more the former than the latter.

Instead of a luck roll, or paying to obtain a precursor, why couldn’t the item have been at the end of a challenging mini dungeon? These precursor dungeons could even be instance just to keep the challenge. When you finally get to it, you can go speak to an NPC who’ll unlock an achievement window for you. The goals can be randomized, or be item specific. Then you need to accomplish tasks with the item in hand. Like I said, killing each of the dragons with it equipped could be one. How about completing a jumping puzzle, or clearing all three paths of any dungeon, or killing one of each race in PvP. The item can even have a criteria list, and as you accomplish deeds it upgrades, from masterwork to rare to exotic to legendary. And as it grows it’s look will grow as well.

There are so many better ways to make the item your own, and make it a legend that grows with your character. There’s so much game out there that just feels ignored. It’s like ArenaNet created this insane amusement park, but told you to get a very special reward, you need to ride the roller coaster 200 times.

Tenshi.3598:

And to stick with hats: in horizontal progression, you work hard so you can buy a prettier hat. Or because you collect hats. Or (whatever you fancy doing with hats :P).

In vertical progression, you work hard, so that you can buy a better helmet, so that you can work harder and get a better helmet, so that you can work harder and get a better helmet, so that…

I see what you did there. You tried to make your own stance seem better by calling the opposite side “pretty hats”, while your own view has “helmets”. Who’d want to get a hat when you can get a helmet, right?

But in your example you made it seem like an endless road that doesn’t amount to anything in the end. You’ll never get anywhere. Sure, you’ll always have goal, but there the only point is adding numbers on top of your old numbers, while your worker for bigger numbers, that’s waiting just in front of even bigger numbers…

The point of horizontal progression is meaningful choices. Where you get gear with differences in how their stats are applied to an item. You’d actually look at you old item and the new item, and then need to decide which works better for you. While the vertical system has an endless out with the old climb, it promotes throwing replacing items, not choosing items.

I created a thread how GW2 can implement horizontal progression with meaningful choices being a part of end game gear.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Horizontal-progression-how-it-can-work/first#post829680

I can also probably add numbers to my examples, I guess it would explain a lot of things more clearly. However, I think I got a clear point across in the end.

Leonard.2867:

@Azjenco.9425 I agree with your post, and after I revise my last post again, I plan to start implementing suggestions. And update the original post accordingly.

Thank you. I really think there is a huge gap in legendary items that require improvement, and I think my precursor event and goal list suggestions are solid enough to go a long way towards accomplishing just that.

Shaileya.7063:

A better business move would have been to at least be a little humble about the whole experience. Admiting the event didn’t really work out like was planned would have at least given us a sense of striving to do better, because we all sure hope this wasn’t ANet’s vision for this. But to read this, you’d think it all went to plan and we just loved every buggy second of it. It displays no intention to learn from the mistakes that were made, when the company is outright pretending that customers are happy with what transpired.

Yeah, the opening made me laugh quite a bit, it read like a letter of denial, but at least he admitted that things could have gone better. It’s a minor concession, no apologies though, or pointing out where the problems lie, but at least it’s a minor display of taking fault.

From there on the topic got a lot better though.

Words that give me hope:

After the holiday we’ll be doing a number of community Q&As and live community conferences where you can ask us questions and get the down-low on how we are evolving the world of Tyria."

Yes, ArenaNet, this is what you need. There needs to be a strong line of communication between you and the fans. You need to talk to us, open up, and tell us exactly what your intentions are behind the veil. We ought to be included in the design process of the game, it’s as much our game as it is yours.

Here’s a general rundown of what we are working towards over the upcoming months:

Revamping all of our existing dungeons (Story and Explorable versions) through rebalance and overhauled encounters.
Adding new dungeons to the Fractal of the Mists.
Adding more variation to creatures, enhancing our open world scaling system, as well as evolving many events and experiences across Tyria.
Fixing and improving existing content throughout the game, and better tying it into the overall sense of player progression within Guild Wars 2.
Building on the Southsun Cove’s persistent content.
Adding new Guild content and Guild progression features.
Continuing to build upon the story and adventures of Guild Wars 2.

You guys. I couldn’t have asked for more. After the emotionally abusive weekend that you’ve put behind us, leaving me all alone at the party with all your dc’s and lag, and making me feel unwanted and unloved with FotM spamming that my level 1 just isn’t good enough.

Now you come out with this. How can I possibly be mad at you when you go and do something as thoughtful as this.

Let’s take it a step further and add a new tier of items and call them astal items.

Now, what makes an astral item stand out is the huge variance in the stats. Let’s say it has power, precision, MF, and vitality, thus falling somewhere between exotic and ascended amount of stats. Two things sets an astral item aside from the rest.
1. It will have an odd effect on it, for instance…
- every fifth hit received, activate 2s of might
- when damage received equals 20% of max health, refill endurance
- whenever you take a critical hit, your next hit will be critical
- after being revived, your ability with the longest cooldown remaining will be restored
- when you are knocked down, adjacent enemies get’s pushed away
IMO, the game needs more quirky, but character defining item traits like these.
2. It’s stat fluctuations will be a lot greater than the other two items. Meaning, one stat will be higher than ascended values, while three stats will be lower than exotic values.
This means that the item will have an all or nothing feel, being strong in one direction while neglecting the others, but also contains a gambit of sorts with the added effect.

Don’t take my suggestion with the astral gear too much to heart, it’s just a random idea, just to show to what a degree horizontal progression can push itself.
From what I suggested, the playing field will be as such:
Exotic: Items with the most flexibility. Due to the item upgrade slot, a player will have freedom of customization, meaning you can have some semblance of the stats you want, and can even push a few stats beyond ascended (or astral) figures.
Ascended: Items with over all stats higher than exotic gear, but always have six different item stats. There will be an edge in the for of infusions, but ascended stats can never be potentially higher than an exotic item with a jewel sharing stats. Ascended items will have an overall feel of strength.
Astral: A proposed item that can focus majorly in one area, while leaving the rest open. Requires a certain level of skill (or madness) to be done right. This sort of item is only an example of major flexibility of the system.

Alright, I’ve used examples of items already in the game, while adding an off the wall illustration of my own. But I really think this portrays rather effectively how the concept of horizontal progression can’t harm the game. In fact, it will only make the game more intricate by adding options and new ideas of how to play your character.

I’ve seen this pop up a lot in threads as of late, but it’s like a lot of people don’t know how good horizontal item progression can be for a game’s “end game”.

Imagine it this way:
Vertical progression: an endless rock climb up a cliff. Sure, the journey matters, but when you keep climbing, is there truly a point to it.
Horizontal progression: coming to a fork in the road. To the left you see an open beach where you can go take a swim, to the right there’s a snowy mountain ski resort, and ahead there’s a safari tour.
That’s the difference, the former invites going and going, you improve, but you don’t really have a destination. The latter has a stopping point, but here you have a bit more flexibility. Let me explain.

Sorry for using ascended gear, but it is a perfect platform to build comparisons. Alright, let’s take the ring used in the first picture we saw of ascended gear:
https://d2vn94glaxzkz3.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Ascended-EN.png
First, you’ll see that the stats power and precision repeat. Potentially, ascended gear can reach a higher peak than exotics can, 5 for power and precision each, in the example.

Let me explain how these items can stand abreast in a horizontal progression model.
In your possession you have the opel ori ring, but then you find the Yakkington’s ring. Now, as horizontal items, Yakkington’s ring won’t have repeated stats, so the jewels three stats will be replaced with vitality, condition damage and healing. Immediately, you’ll be presented with a meaningful choice, and you wont just replace and sell/salvage the lesser item.
This will come down to build, playstyle and personal preference. Do you keep the opel ring with the less, though higher stacked stats (due to the jewel), or do you take the ascended ring, with strong all round stats, and an infusion slot.

As you can see, both items now have merits that can play off of one another. Instead of a system that replaces, the game now has an item system built around choices. Let’s say your build relies strongly on power and precision, then the opel ori is the clear winner, but if your build relies on power, condition damage, and healing, then you’d lean more towards the Yakkington’s ring. However, situations may arise where you become torn. Maybe you’d want the vitality and healing boost, and need to weigh if you’re willing to give up damage for survivability. By it’s definition this will make for a healthy market and deeper build planning, as not everything becomes stacking numbers on larger numbers, but rather fine tuning according to your style.

The problem I have with legendary items is that it’s more of a test of having large pockets and grinding patience. Obtaining a legendary isn’t much of test of prowess, skill, or dedication to actual gameplay.

Constructing the legendary weapons in game consist of a few decent challenges: map exploration, skill points, karma, badges of honor, maxed crafting. Others can only be gained through immense grinding, or having huge pockets: 250 T6 mats, ecto, lodestones, mystic coins, rune stones, dungeon tokens. Then there are the items that are bound to luck, a really idiotic choice when it comes to something that supposed to be a challenging reward.

I mean, ANet promote these as the end all to be all, which will really put you through the ringer. Yet, it’s not like they even know their own game. Why aren’t any jumping puzzles involved, or an extensive meta event, or the personal story, or any mini dungeons, or big boss fights like the three dragons, or any personalized challenge quest?

There are so many better ways this could have been done to actually challenge the player. Would you want to own a legendary and have people look at you thinking “wow, he must have done some sick grinding to get that”, or “wow, he must be kitten good to have accomplished such a feat.” Because right now, it’s more the former than the latter.

Instead of a luck roll, or paying to obtain a precursor, why couldn’t the item have been at the end of a challenging mini dungeon? These precursor dungeons could even be instance just to keep the challenge. When you finally get to it, you can go speak to an NPC who’ll unlock an achievement window for you. The goals can be randomized, or be item specific. Then you need to accomplish tasks with the item in hand. Like I said, killing each of the dragons with it equipped could be one. How about completing a jumping puzzle, or clearing all three paths of any dungeon, or killing one of each race in PvP. The item can even have a criteria list, and as you accomplish deeds it upgrades, from masterwork to rare to exotic to legendary. And as it grows it’s look will grow as well.

There are so many better ways to make the item your own, and make it a legend that grows with your character. There’s so much game out there that just feels ignored. It’s like ArenaNet created this insane amusement park, but told you to get a very special reward, you need to ride the roller coaster 200 times.

Let’s forget all about the shenanigans going on at the moment, and talk about something else.

GW2 is and should be about aesthetically building your character your way. Something that I thought would be a great addition to the system is the Warhammer styled armor displays. I really think this sort of thing will work well in GW2.

If can collect small, hard to find trinkets that you can decorate your armor with, then that would add a lot to the game’s personalization.

When you think of personalized customization, what would you like to see implemented?

Leonard.2867:

Ditton.3149:

I cant believe you people are hoping that Anet will fail…if Anet fails this close to the game’s creation and seemingly doesnt know what their customer base is..why do you think their publisher would give them more money? What you are hoping for is that alot of people will be out of jobs very soon..and that’s pretty sad just because you want Gw1.5

I agree mostly with your statement except: GW1.5

I don’t want GW1.5 I want GW2.0 pre-apocalyptic patch.

Yeah, the thing is, ANet proposed to go into GW2 with the same philosophy they used for GW1. So this isn’t a matter of people wanting GW1.5, it’s ANet taking a detour in how they’ve been doing games and promised how they’d approach GW2.

xiv.7136:

You talk of “losing” this game as if it was some kind of tragedy.

There are families being blown to pieces in Gaza, tribal wars in various countries, and ecological disasters. Those are tragedies.

This is a game where they added a backpiece and a ring that have slightly higher stats.

Relax.

It’s truly in poor taste to equate a game’s issues to that of the real world. Shame on you, it’s really a moronic move to point t something severe and totally unrelated in an attempt to diminish the issue.

Moreover, are you trying to say that there’s more important problems in the world, we shouldn’t care about the product meant for us. Sure, let’s all shrug and move on. Let’s allow the game to shutdown and leave 300 people without jobs. Yeah, you’re so right, there’s no problem here at all.

Rather than having one part that you need to grind, Guild Wars 2 should be more about playing the way you want, and being rewarded as such. The more you play the more you are awarded. Right now, there’s no great incentive to actually play out in the world. People grind the most efficient paths, because most parts of the game aren’t all that rewarding to spend time in.

There should be more to do all over the game. You shouldn’t be able to take one step without being throw into a event chain. There should be chains that reward you for perseverance, and there should be hard chains that reward you for your effort. Some events take moments to finish, but reward you the same as another one that takes minutes in a drawn out fight.

Likewise, dungeons feel grindy because some boss fights are tank and spank. You dodge here and there, while whittling away at a health bar for five to ten minutes. And far too many fights are like this.

DegoLocc.5976:

Columba.9730:

Please make your voice heard. flood all online buying sites with comments and reviews. If you don’t like this patch, say so. If they don’t sell anything over the holidays, someone will get fired and the direction will change.

Nice logic, lol.

Shame on you for wishing for someone to loose their job in this economy because of your personal “entitlement”.

Not that I’m condoning what he said, not at all, but imagine GW2 going to path of so many other MMOs and ultimately failing. How many people will be without jobs then?

ArenaNet really needs to be blatantly direct with its fans here. They need to open up and discuss this matter thoroughly, and say how they wish to address their fears, rather than sweeping everything under the rug. And they need to do this sooner rather than later, because people are only going to get angrier.

Then from here on out ANet needs to keep a healthy line open with their fanbase, really communicate, as I suggested in the topic I created:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Opinion-transparency-is-what-we-need/first#post820020

Leonard.2867:

Belteshazzar.6307:

Everyone’s got their own opinions
There’s nothing they don’t know about
But in the end nobody’s winning
‘Cause nobody’s got it figured out~

Oh the things we think we know
But honestly we really don’t
Save the worry, stop the hate
It doesn’t matter anyway

Doo rooo~ Doo rooo~

I agree that the community should stop the hate… erm more like complaining. Maybe expressing ourselves is just way over the top. Maybe GW2 fans should not spam the forums in an attempt to give Anet another chance. Maybe all of us complainers should just go ahead and ask for a refund and never look back at the game.

Yeah, because people who really like the product, but don’t like the path it’s taking (especially when it’s a drastic path in a whole direction), they’re not allowed to raise their opinions. Only people who completely agree are entitled to do so.

jojojoon.8607:

This reminds me of how the diablo3 forum blew up when the players got to Inferno. Players hated it so much they would rather spend time on the forums than playing the game. Many players also started asking for refunds at the time also.

This actually reminds me a lot of what happened with D3. Even though the game sold well, after the severe backlash Blizzard has been sprawling to get things right, and has made strides to achieve that goal.

Now I view ANet in much higher regard than I do Blizzard. So, I’m really eager to see how ANet reacts to everything that’s happened.

azizul.8469:

TL;DR

tips when moving around in Orr : speedbuff and condition removal skills

But shouldn’t there be more to it than that? Shouldn’t a place like Orr spell more dread that a mere annoyance or feeling like a drudgery just to get around?

Right now there isn’t much of a threat to these places, except maybe Southsun’s veterans. But Orr doesn’t evoke any sense of fear or hazard, just long walks made longer due to a walking slower when your skills are on cooldown.

Narkosys.5173:

You cant force them – Frankly they have gone just as silent as Bio did when it hit the crapper. After the summit it went dark – with a little here and there.
Looks the same here.

I remember watching the titanic of gaming called Bioware sink with a heavy feeling in my heart. The founders left, and they pretty much ruined one of my favorite gaming franchises. This was a sad time indeed.

Now I can’t help but think back of all my GW2 expectations. Seeing those enthusiastic faces with so many promises of something better. It feels like I’m now standing at the precipice and just can’t shake this foreboding.

Pirhana.8935:

Im sorry to say but GW2 has become a "filler for me until ESO now

I’m starting to feel the same way, but about Marvel Heroes.

Somehow ANet seem to mess this up. Like Orr, they made some of the Southcove enemies immediately come with movement hampering, as if that equates difficulty. Karka are already a step up though, the multiple health bars, and interesting stomp mechanics are proof of this. But ANet needs to think outside the box when it comes to their tough content.

I suggested a ‘karka saliva’ mechanic elsewhere. Basically, karka ranged attacks apply this debuff, which stacks on your character. After five stacks you become crippled, and on ten stacks you’re immobilized. This may even come with added effects, like five equals weakness as well, and ten also gives vulnerable.

So far, the only problem Southcove has is incentive. The veterans drop no loot, and there are no decent event chains. There aren’t even any strong rewards, save for a rich ori node, but it’s guarded by a champion, which doesn’t seem worth it. Place a good meta event chain around this area, and maybe a decent chest at the champion, and you’ll see people have reason to come.

I actually think Orr could learn a few things from Southcove.

Edit:

It’s somewhat of a gear check. If you are getting owned every 20 feet, odds are, you shouldn’t be there. Being 80 doesn’t matter.

For a game that’s supposed to be about skill, what you just said makes it rather sad.

Kumu Honua.2751:

Lets add Large Skulls and the cores/shards/whatnots.

They all belong…

I agree, and storage space for the new mats should have been included with the content update.

ckeeton.4907:

…because they added a new tier of gear. Yeah sure lol

Really? You think it’s only the new gear that’s the problem?

What about the event that received so much hype, which ended up being unplayable due to lag and dc’s, and most of the time enemies appeared out of nowhere, right on top of you.

How about ANet promoting the new zone for players to explore, meanwhile it appears to be dull, even when compared to Orr. The veterans drop no loot. The events rarely occur and often feel nonexistent. Plus, there isn’t even a single meta-event to drive players, something that every zone in the game has. Suncove just feels unfinished.

Or what about the FotM situation that’s causing some elitist behavior and is very successful at separating the playerbase from the content, something that no other dungeon does.
And on top of that there’s also the LA chat being bombarded with constant “LFG FotM level 6” or “LF2M FotM 5, no noobs pls”. LA is supposed to be a social hub and it’s being spammed because there’s no decent group finder in the works.

People’s reactions to the ascended gear are because they had no idea that anything like this was coming. Most of all this bombshell dropped on them three days before it was implemented. And say what you want, people are throwing ANet quotes all around of how they don’t want gear to become work, they want aesthetics to be the main drive of the game. So yeah, exotics are easy to get, which is why people thought more gear will be appearing for their looks, not for their stats.

So no, this is not just about a new tier. People feel that this attempt was lackluster, and overall they feel lied to and that they’re purposefully being kept in the dark. This is clearly not just about the new tier, this is ANet not telling people what they’re doing to the game, and now fans have grown afraid of what may come next.

The Last Jagaroth.1652:

Secrecy only breeds a Tinfoil Hat mentality

This is absolutely true, which only drives the point how critical it is for ANet to address their playerbase. Not only regularly in the future, but right now to calm people cocerning the latest issues.

You’ve touched on some thing’s I’d personally see focus on:

• Dungeons are poorly designed and are not fun. High level fights are generally uninteresting and involve dodging and reviving players.

• World events have no real consequences and there is no real incentive to complete them. There is no challenge in them and they eventually become stale.

• No guild halls.

• Dungeon bosses need a serious once over. Long fights of dodging the big hit, then reviving those who didn’t, well, one or two bosses like this would be great, but the majority are like this.

A boss battle needs unique mechanics, even consecutive battles needs to be enticing and have some surprises and dire moments. It needs to be challenging without one shot kills and huge health bars, because when you finally figured the boss out, then it becomes a five minute war off attrition, and that is not interesting at all.

• I think each zone needs at least one sweeping, zone wide meta event. There should be danger and clear changes that raise the stakes. Perhaps they can even add an escalating system, so for each event in the chain you participate in, the greater the reward will be for the following events.

Speaking of events, the game definitely needs better karma awards. Right now, the only worthwhile goal appears to be the exotic armors.

• Guild halls are a must. It seems the inclusion of these are on the back burner, but I don’t think ANet knows how important guild content actually are. WvW forts and flags are minimal compared to what guild benefits aught to be.

There needs to be GvG content. Perhaps even guild invasions, where one guild invades another guild’s hall. Not only this, but large group content, more than five man dungeons would also do a lot of good. This will allow guilds to actually have guild events, and tackle difficult PvE content as a larger group.

Morrigan.2809:

What I would suggest is using the already in-game feedback box that was used during the betas to actually get a feeling of players feedback directly from within the game.
Not so many people visit the forums.

This is actually a great idea, I loved filling in these and giving my thoughts on the process. Maybe there can be an option in the game menu, cause I’m sure some people wouldn’t want to partake in this.

Though I still think some sort of poll of the week feature would be nice.

I know there’s no point in making demands, but I really think a designer’s respond is merited. I’m not only talking about my post, from everything people have said, not only here but throughout the forums and also in game, people are becoming fed up. ANet need to address this issue, but most importantly, they need to open effective communication lines.

You’re already losing customers and you’re going to lose a lot more. It’s not a threat, and I’m not trying to be an kitten, it’s just a simple fact.

It just think the big issue is that people feel they can no longer trust ANet. This ascended change dropped like a bomb out of nowhere. There was no indication of it, and no one saw it coming. Word only came three days before the change.
Those people are thinking: “You know, if they have his in the works, then what else is brewing?”

These fans feel cheated, because to them this is in direct violation of ANet’s intentions for the game. If this was announced from the get go, people would have felt included into the process, and there would be no questions about it. But right now, behind the scenes ANet are doing things that everyone feels scared about.

To an extent, the fans maybe shouldn’t overreact, but then again, they wouldn’t react as such if ANet didn’t keep everyone in the dark.

So far, ArenaNet have been conversing with its player base, but from the response a lot of people have shown, they’re intentions have been about as transparent as a stained-glass window. It might look nice on the outside, but you have little idea what exactly transpires beyond.

1. I think there needs to be blogs at least once a week, outlining definitive points and ideals. Through these there should be strong outlines of what is happening, along with short and long term goals. There have been some decent blogs in the past, but they don’t happen often enough. ANet needs to make time and commit themselves to interacting with the public.

2. The GW2 webpage should also have polls, not only on fun topics, but to raise ideas of what the public would enjoy, and the game log in screen needs to reflect this, to draw as many people to participate. Perhaps, they can even somehow try to incorporate the poll into the screen itself.

3. For larger, once off events, perhaps ANet should consider closed public betas. They can include an NDA, and I’m sure many players would be thrilled to be included in this process. ANet will even eventually have a collection of trusted individuals who’ll be glad to test content, time and again.

I think these few points are far more important than most people realize. ANet don’t want to give specifics, but they have no need to be specific on most matters. If ANet came forward months ago, and told the public that they’re planning on implementing high-end, final tier gear that will be released in increments through content updates over a long period of time, would there have been such an uproar over ascended gear? Think about it.

Danikat.8537:

Agreed. I love the jumping puzzles.

Which is kind of strange because I suck at them, but I still have fun doing it. I’ve given up on this one for now, but that’s just because I want to focus on other stuff for now, I’m looking forward to coming back to it later.

It’s like you stole the exact words from my mouth. Good on you, ArenaNet. Keep the jumping puzzles coming.

Sahriah.3792:

Those people complaining that they did the event and couldn’t loot the chest, they have already said there working on compensating those people

The real people that should be upset are all the oceanic people that get to miss out on every one time event because it starts at 3am Monday mornings.

Yes, and the people who participated might not have bothered at all, because the lag and dc’s made it nigh unplayable. The lag actually being so bad, that it started effecting other parts of the game. To top it all off, they released content, and held invite a friend at the same time, while not having the capacity to support it. I bet you, the number of people who’ll not keep on outweighs those who’d now want to buy the game.
A severe loss on ANet’s side.

Or what about the sudden bomb being dropped of ascended gear, which was ‘planned’ but not mentioned once, not until 3 days before being dropped on the public. And the only response fans heard basically boiled down to: ‘shhh, just wait it out and see how it works out, we know you want this’. From people’s fears I’m not so sure, they’re even starting to question the ANet manifesto. People feel they’re purposefully being left in the dark.

Or what about the FotM situation that’s causing some elitist behavior and cutting some people off from the content. And on the other side of the spectrum, people in LA being bombarded in chat with constant “LFG FotM level 6” or “LF2M FotM 5, no noobs pls”. LA is supposed to be a social hub and it’s being spammed because there’s no decent group finder in the works.

Or to a lesser extent, how about Southsun Cove being an alternative high end zone. Meanwhile there isn’t actually a whole lot to do there. There are 7 events that barely ever occur, and no meta event whatsoever. The zone feels rather underutilized, not to mention, killing the tough veterans scattered around amounts to no loot at all.

People are angry, and most of this doesn’t even concern me, but they are issues that are being discussed a lot, on the forums (and not just here), in my 500 member guild, and constantly in chat. So, there must be something going wrong. Of my seven friends who started the game with me, I’m the only one still playing, and that worries me.

Vegas.5790:

I would agree with all your points. Here’s hoping Anet will as well.

Thank you.
But if anyone feels like they’d like to add something to the list, suggest away.

Hmm, the question is how will they respond to this controversial weekend. I don’t know if they’ve ever taken this much flak over anything they’ve done in the past. There’s three possibilities, two bad, and one good. First the bad:

1. ArenaNet just ignores it and push on to the next content, never acknowledging anything they’ve done wrong or right here.

This is the tricky one, and a slap in the fact of the fans. Because no one will have any idea of what’s brewing in the background, are they just plowing onward, or did they learn anything from what happened. Either way, if they tell us nothing, they’re going to lose fans.

2. ArenaNet announces what a massive success this weekend was. Announcing record attendance across the board, without acknowledging the the massive lag the majority experienced, and how dissatisfied most were with how it was handled. They’ll call this a major win on their part, and they’ll keep on keeping on.

This is by far the worst move they could possibly make, and by far lose the most people by taking these actions. People want answers, they want to be kept in the loop of where the game is heading, which ANet hasn’t been quite up front about. If they scrape this under the table to save face, then people will view their reputation as tarnished, and that is something you don’t recover from easily.

3. ArenaNet releases a blog, detailing all that happened, outlining what their intentions were, and what went wrong. They need to be blatantly honest here, they need to put out the flames and assuage their fans’ concerns. Their words require damage control and no niceties of what they think should best for the fans. It would be good move for them to start outlining GW2’s road ahead, and do what’s best to keep the fans they have happy.

It would be the smartest move on their part. Start listening and keep people in the loop. It’s what the fans have wanted from the start, and this whole ascended fiasco could have been avoided, but it was handled poorly. ANet should pay closer attention, not try to keep people in the dark. This is a critical time for them.

Most importantly, ANet shouldn’t think they’re above their fandom. It’s the fans that make or break them, and they need them at their side. Many MMOs have faltered by taking the path they’re heading in, and any signs of hubris will make them fall. GW2 started out strong, but to remain strong there will need to be a lot done on their part, and I don’t mean popping out content. GW2 is not above faltering. Even the mightiest of giants can fall.

Rhikkimaru.4690:

patch notes here, all the way at the bottom
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Game-Update-Notes-November-15-2012

So, CoE path 1 still isn’t fixed? :/

drifter.8453:

Sorry but why is southsun cove worth farming?

It’s not, hence my post. The things you asked for are on my list. Better drops from vets, better events, and all round improvement to actually attract people to this zone, because it isn’t really worth being here.

See the large event chain I suggested. Something like this would do this zone a lot of good. In fact, having these sort of huge zone events would do all zones a lot of good, which could even have culminating loot rewards. This will draw people to whatever zones they please, because now, people feel they need to farm the most efficient parts of the game, and something like my suggestion might rather give people a sense of just playing the game.

Happyfool.8951:

Blame the RNG. If you got a precursor, i’m pretty sure you won’t be bitter about it and rant on the forums.

I kitten did it twice on two different alts(80) and didn’t get a precursor, you don’t see me kittening, do you?

Please stay on topic. This discussion is about Zhaitan.

4. Oh, how could I forget. Incentive. At the moment there isn’t whole lot of reason to be playing at Southsun. There are only 6 events, and they occur far too infrequently.
First, maybe this should be sped up.
Secondly, I think this location is prime for a massive, zone wide meta series. What I mean by this is, there are six or so events all happening at the same time.

For instance it could be a series of events happening at multiple locations, it may start with three locations where karka eggs are brewing, which the Priory wish to investigate -> the hatchlings will pop out and you will need to erect energy shields to keep them at bay -> smaller karka will get riled up that you need to subdue, either through force or non-harmful measures -> when you’ve calmed them down, a few protectors will go around, making life difficult for the lionguard, whom you then need to get to safety -> next you’ll need to fortify towns as the karka come in force -> and this will lead you to discover that the some of the karka are at odds with one another, since you killed the ancient karka, they’re now vying for dominance.
There are two or three rabid karka champions that player players then need to eliminate, before the karka kill themselves and everyone else in the process. Once done the major karka force retreats.
Players will receive chests at intervals, which can even scale depending on how long they’ve been participating. I don’t know, just an idea. But it would be nice to have strong incentives to actually participate in a zone.

ckeeton.4907:

Stop whining its getting old,

So there’s no point in trying to make suggestion to make the game better? So the game should just remain the way it is because it’s perfect, right? People leaving are the ones who you should lash out against, because those who actually come to the forums with constructive suggestions, like the OP does, are the real people who care about the game.

Those who leave, or worse, those who just pull up their shoulders and think “whatever” are the ones who’re doing the game real harm.

While playing Southsun Cove quite a bit today, I had a few things I’d like to suggest.

1. Let the veteran karka have two distinguishable health bars. At the moment it’s one red bar over another. Rather give the armor bar a yellow or a purple color. Not only will it distinguish the two rather nicely, since some people in chat get angry “because they healed to full”, but this will also add a nice “armor” effect to it’s health bar.

2. Veteran karka are fun to fight, but can they at least get some drops. Never mind good items, right now they barely ever drop any items at all.

3. The young karka have cripple, while the veterans have immobilize. This is like orr all over again. Alright ANet, if you’re so persistent on giving all “tough” enemies movement affecting abilities (somehow you seem to consider that challenging combat, who knows), then can you at least be a little innovative when it comes to the karka.

Just to give an example, why not have a debuff called karka saliva. They’ll each have a special attack that will grant you this debuff, if it stacks to five you’ll be crippled, and if it reaches ten then you’ll be immobilized. That way a single foe wont be irritating, and when you get packed the debuff will add up. This means if you want to run to get to an event, you wont be hampered and get annoyed, and if you take on more than one or have a drawn out battle, you’ll still have a ‘challenging’ fight.

All in all, I like the strides you’ve taken to toughen up the karka. The multiple health is great, and being stomped on, or rolled over can be avoided, and feels like it should knock you down. The actually feel threatening.

Southsun does a decent job and Orr can certainly learn a few things from this place.

(1) I think ANet would be smart if they make ascended items better than exotics, but make them different. For instance, keep the upgrade stats on the item, and make the item stats a bit higher, but don’t duplicate stats. This will have an equalized effect where an ascended item will have good all round stats, like 6 different and good stats. While an exotic will have the possibility for you to place in an upgrade that can duplicate a stat, thereby making it stronger than the ascended upgrade.

If you understand my example, but I’m basically suggesting that ascended gear shouldn’t be the next step above exotics, but it should be something special and entirely different, not just a stat ladder than you need to climb.

There should be choices in the game, more meaningful than just adding numbers. And ANet should be capable to pull this off.

(2) I really think fans should be involved. For a game built for the fans, GW2 sure seems rather apt at keeping them in the dark. Let fans know what’s going on, keep them in the loop long before you go into a direction. And I don’t mean announce systems before they’re ready, but keep us informed of the intentions behind a system, which won’t require you to actually reveal said system.

And none of this “we don’t want to tell you about something, and then pull it away, because it might be disappointed” malarkey. Fans are already disappointed.

Think about it, if ANet told everyone before launch that they had an idea to have an epic, final tier gear launch post game, which will basically grow with the game and eventually it will cover all content, if they told us that, then would everyone have reacted so poorly to ascended gear? Would ANet’s reputation be as marred as it is now?

Think about it.

(3) I doubt we’ll receive any apology. Fans claim that the manifest had been tarnished, but they still believe that they’re holding up their end. Either way, what’s done is done. What I will say is this, ANet better plan carefully how they’ll proceed from here, because the fans are livid.

(4) I think it will be good overall for the company if they don’t leave the personnel on their live teams only n one team. Who knows, maybe someone working on the holiday events might have some brilliant ideas for PvP brewing inside his mind. Maybe not even he knows it, but if people revolve around, it’ll keep the ideas fresh and unique.

Well, that my thoughts on this topic.

Snowy.9580:

Azjenco.9425:

Probably the best part of yesterday’s event was the payoff. Opening that chest was so satisfactory, you certainly felt rewarded.

If by that you meant that a lot of people got precursors, while the rest of us got kitten. Then yeah, it was awesome and well worth the 3 hours of my life I’ll never get back… NOT!

Alright, forget the precursors. In my party, two guys received precursors, while the rest didn’t. Yeah, two people basically received 200 gold worth of items, and the rest of got about 1 gold’s worth. That didn’t feel really nice.

But forget that for a moment. Why can’t Zhaitan give players 2 exotics and 2 rares?

Probably the best part of yesterday’s event was the payoff. Opening that chest was so satisfactory, you certainly felt rewarded. I mean, it’s a once off battle where you’re going through a long chain of events, culminating in an intense battle at the end, why shouldn’t the rewards be great.

So then why can’t finishing Zhaitan for the first time be rewarded in the same way? It’s an big, once off battle at the end of a long chain of events. I don’t see the difference. Maybe the Zhaitan fight needs some work done to it, I mean, even the three lesser dragons felt more of a challenge, even old karka was harder.

Perhaps, let him latch onto the ship between waves of minions, then, while some keep him occupied, other players need to man cannons to shoot at him, and make it actually challenging, as in, if someone wipe, he regains health, and you need different cannon shots to have an effect. When he’s on low health he’ll grab onto the tower, and then everyone grabs a cannon to deal the final blow.

Kaellok.8143:

We got a new dungeon and zone, along with some pvp maps. That’s a pretty big change. What more we you expecting?

Everything you mentioned were additions to the world, not changes. Adding things to Tyria certainly doesn’t mean that the world of Tyria is changed, it just means that along with everything that already existed in Tyria, now there are some extra things, but what was already there is still unchanged.
Do you understand where I’m coming from?

So, to find a dungeon group, you need to go to a website outside the game? If you’re looking for a dungeon you should basically go look elsewhere…

You know, this wouldn’t even be a problem if the game actually had a decent LFG system worked into it, and don’t tell me there is an LFG window. That piece of crap is useless. Even GW1 has a better group tool, and that game requires it a lot less than this one. What are the developers thinking by not including this into the game?

There isn’t even a tool in the works at this moment. So, you better buckle up, because you’ll be seeing LFG/LFM for a long time to come.

Will this fix be in the next update? Will there be an update tonight?